Accidental passing

[Leanne2]

I'm sort of a shape shifter. For example, last Sunday morning I went to Sunday school and then church dressed as a guy. Even though I under dress fem, on the outside I wore jeans, a sweater, and suede slip on shoes. My hair is styled in a feminine wedge and I have no facial hair. I get my brows waxed once a month. The people that know me know that I always have big hair. After church I put on a light zip windbreaker and tied a long knitted scarf around my neck. Then I drove to a corner grocery for milk. As I walked to the small checkout counter I had the milk basket in one hand and my black zippered wallet in the other. The lady in front of me decided to get one more item. She looked at me and said to the checkout lady," Wait on her first while I get another item." I thanked her and smiled. The checkout lady knows that I am a male. She just said OK. That was nice of her to not blow my cover. Leanne

[Katesback]

Sounds like you are taking the gender Scr--w approach. I personally don't get it. I don't think it helps you to assimilate into the word as NORMAL. Finally I would suggest that people see you as a gay male or freek. With that said by all means have at it but I think you will invariably suffer in the long run for the gender scr--w approach.

Katie

[Persephone]

Totally disagree with sister Katesback -- gender scr--- and shapeshifter are two very, very different things.

I am one of those women who has absolutely, positively no interest in gender screwing. I know there are people on here who enjoy it, but it certainly isn't my cup of tea.

On the other hand, I too am a shapeshifter. I can change my sweatshirt or, like Leanne, zip on a windbreaker and go right into girl mode and be seen as a lady. And yes, I love it!

It rocks, Leanne! Enjoy it!

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I think this is a personal thing. For me, I have transitioned 24/7 and never ever never present as male. Nor would I want to (yuck). I don't understand those who flip flop but that is their business not mine.

[Frances]

The OP did not mention at what stage of her transition she was.

Before starting living full-time, I went to a doctor's appointment dressed in a simple shirt and jeans and the receptionnist read me instantly as female and would not believe my medical insurance card was actually mine. I am no longer androgynous, but a lot of us do go through a similar phase. I know some go from total male to totally fem by adding a wig, women's clothes and whatever, but I slowly feminized my appereance all the way to my social transition. Before coming out, most people who did not know me perceived me as female, while everyone else still saw the guy.

[Leanne2]

OK, someone fill me in on the meaning of the term gender screw. It's hard for me to understand your post if I have never heard of the terminology. And to answer a question, I am transsexual but have not begun to transition yet. For the time being I have to function in society as a male. But I dabble in female when I can. Leanne

[Kaz]

I think this is a personal thing. For me, I have transitioned 24/7 and never ever never present as male. Nor would I want to (yuck). I don't understand those who flip flop but that is their business not mine.

We flipflop because we can't cut it 24/7... take care, for some of us it is too late.

[Traci Elizabeth]

We flipflop because we can't cut it 24/7... take care, for some of us it is too late.

Too Late? It is NEVER too late to transition until they throw dirt on top of your coffin! But even then you can be buried in your dress and have your tombstone engraved with you female name if you so desire.

[pamela_a]

:iagree: Well said Traci

[Persephone]

I think this is a personal thing. For me, I have transitioned 24/7 and never ever never present as male. Nor would I want to (yuck). I don't understand those who flip flop but that is their business not mine.

I flipflop because I feel that I have to. Back in the stone age, transition wasn't common and so I hid behind my guy fascade. He built up friends, family, interests, and responsibilities. For me it is hard to completely break those perceived chains, so even though I am now probably out and about more in femme than in drab, there are still issues that I haven't resolved.

[Stephanie Anne]

We flipflop because we can't cut it 24/7... take care, for some of us it is too late.

I am genuinely curious, how is it too late? I know people maried for decades that transition. I know one amazing woman that transitioned in her 70s. Can you explain what is too late?

on a side note, I find it funny how so many people think that unless you are transitioning, you won't be happy stuck across genders. I personally can't do it but that does not mean other people are not more comfortable in more than one gender role.

[Hope]

I think this is a personal thing. For me, I have transitioned 24/7 and never ever never present as male. Nor would I want to (yuck). I don't understand those who flip flop but that is their business not mine.

Do remember that not all of us are 24/7 yet, and not all of us are up to going 24/7 yet. YET. Our time is coming, but it is not now. Please try not to look down on us with too much distain. You were one of us once. We will be one of you someday (soon please!).

Personally, I am sure that most people who see me think I am gay, but I really don't care, and have a hard time believing for a moment that it will prevent me from assimilating fully into female society in the future... nor do I think I suffer for it now. But then I lack Kate's all knowing eye into the future.

[discoveringsophia]

I, too, have added more femininity to my everyday appearance, mannerisms, etc., while also more fully living as a female when it is feasible, and expanding the "feasible" category over time. This is how it makes sense for me. I think of it this way: we constantly say that gender is not really binary. In this spirit, it would seem odd for me to flip a binary switch one day and "become" woman. Girls do not flip a switch to become women -- it is a sometimes painful process of years. We use the word "transition", implying process and time. The paths across this chasm are many and varied.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Perhaps we need to more clearly define "flip-flop". For my purposes, I am defining it a person who one day presents male then the next day female while at the same time interacting with the same people in the same activities.

For example one day the go you work as a woman then the next day as a man and you just keep flip-flopping back and forth confusing everyone around you with no regard for you actions only to have you stand out as being strange.

I am not referring to part-time transsexuals who for example at work are not out yet for whatever reason and goes to work as a make, Then after work off comes the male clothes and she puts on her female clothes and finishes out the day and weekends in her correct gender - female . That is not the same a Flip-floppers.

[AnnaCalliope]

OK, someone fill me in on the meaning of the term gender screw. It's hard for me to understand your post if I have never heard of the terminology. And to answer a question, I am transsexual but have not begun to transition yet. For the time being I have to function in society as a male. But I dabble in female when I can. Leanne

A GenderScrew (the actual term is a bit more vulgar) is someone, usually male, who likes to play with, or mock traditional notions of gender identity, gender roles, and gender presentation. I.E. A guy with a full beard and hairy legs wearing a tank top and mini skirt. The few times I've seen people dressed as such, its been as a form of protest.

As far as the description you gave Leanne, I would not consider your appearance to be anywhere close to that of a GenderScrew. I would say androgynous would be a much closer term. If you had a femme hairstyle and waxed brows, but a week's worth of facial hair and wore a flannel shirt and hiking boots, that would be a much closer representation of a GenderScrew. But that's just my perspective.

[annabellejorden]

Dont forget, there are those like myself.

I will never completely transition.

I will stay male.
But, I will be a male why wears "female" clothes.
For me, it's not a sexual thing.
I am not confused about what sex I am.
I just wish to present as being more feminine that being full male.

Also, I am on an HRT feminizing program.

I am Guy++

[Persephone]

Perhaps we need to more clearly define "flip-flop". For my purposes, I am defining it a person who one day presents male then the next day female while at the same time interacting with the same people in the same activities.

Thank you for the clarification, Traci. That is definitely not what I meant when I used the term "Flip-flop" and what you describe would be the farthest thing from my mind, other than when it is unavoidable, like with a spouse.

That's one reason I believe the term "shapeshifter" more clearly defines what I do and what the OP, Leanne, is describing.

In my case I could be shopping en drab and come across something femme I want to try on. I can literally put on a swipe of lipstick, put my purse on my arm, carry the clothes high near my chest, and pass. I'll get "Ma'm"ed by the sale associate guarding the door to the women's fitting room.

That's shapeshifting.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Rianna Humble]

Perhaps we need to more clearly define "flip-flop". For my purposes, I am defining it a person who one day presents male then the next day female while at the same time interacting with the same people in the same activities.

For example one day the go you work as a woman then the next day as a man and you just keep flip-flopping back and forth confusing everyone around you with no regard for you actions only to have you stand out as being strange.

I know it can be difficult to understand, but some might say that by your definition I flip-flopped for 4 months last year, although it was not done to confuse. I had been giving off signs of my gender dysphoria without realising it. When a colleague told me that I would be more comfortable in a dress or skirt, I decided to let those who work with me know that I am TG and I got permission from management to express my gender, but they set limits. Until I had officially sought help towards transition, I could only dress comfortably on the "dress-down" days at work and had to present as male at all other times.

For this reason,I would sometimes go to work one day in my brain gender and the next in my anatomical gender, but I tried to keep my colleagues informed. I also tried to remain sensitive to their feelings about what I was doing, but received only positive feedback - or at worse neutral as in "it's none of my business what you need to do to feel comfortable in yourself".

By the time that I was able to present full-time and to change my name, all of my immediate colleagues felt included in what I was doing. I agreed with management and HR that others in the building only needed to be told whatever was necessary to avoid them having/giving problems and that this would happen by briefing their line-managers.

My situation is certainly not the norm, but it definitely worked in my circumstances.

[Marcyme]

I am surprised by this thread. For a group that has faced ridicule and harassment for being themselves, you can sure dish it back out. You ask people to accept you put you are quick to judge those that don't fit your mold or view. Of all groups this one should understand that gender is NOT black or white, yet you act threatened when one of your own falls outside the 2 party system....
Check the avatar....guess I am a gender fck....

[Melody Moore]

Yes Marcyme, just like the remainder of the LGBTI community where gay guys are critical of transsexuals because we want to chop our manhood
off. I have come across quite a few androgynous people that can't relate to why we are transsexual & why we cannot accept ourselves in the
bodies we were born into. So it's a 2-way street, many people do have their own opinions & sometimes express them very openly & honestly.

If you want my honest opinion about the OP, they sound confused about who they really are and it's like they're boasting to here about
how well they do pass, but are looking for some type of validation from the TS community. But that is just my personal opinion of course.

The real beauty about diversifying opinions is that it does give people like the OP a different point of view to consider about themselves.

[Stephanie Anne]

Melody, two things

1) Love the new forum middle or last name

2) What happened to your formatting? Your posts lately have line breaks in them like an epileptic fit!

Sorry to thread jack.

[Eve_WA]

I too am one that I guess would categorize as the the gender screw to some. But at the present, at my point of transition, its all I can do. I have given up in the wigs and fake nails, and have chosen to grow out my own. I also sculpt my brow, and shave and am having laser hair removal. I have adopted more female mannerisms, as it is VERY difficult for me to one day act and walk manly, and another feminine. I also wear androgynous female clothes at work. Why? Because for one, I found it a hardship to keep two separate wardrobes. For another, I feel most comfortable this way. But at present, I cannot transition fully at work. I dont wear makeup, jewelry, or forms to work. But I am definitely not the man that started work there many years ago. The places I frequent, the various stores and shops, know me as both. My feminine and more androgynous side, and before the transition, knew the male side, as Ive lived in the same house for 20 years. I have never received anything but positive attitudes and comments from the staff and patrons. I am sure that there are some that may not care for or like this. But this is who I am. Do I care what a complete stranger thinks? NO! There was a time, but not anymore. Do I feel that I have alienated myself from co workers and friends as a result? Not really. I think there was some confusion at the start. I did feel some people pull back some, not sure of what to think. But after a time, they realized that I am still the same person, and their original attitudes returned. The ones who liked me, still liked me, and the ones that didnt... still dont. Even if I lost friends, I now know who are truly my friends and who is not. In the end, you have to do whats best for yourself.

Granted, I dont have a wife or children. And my family lives on the other side of the state. These variables definitely color our decisions. But in the end, you have to do what you feel is right and best for you and your circumstances.

[Melody Moore]

Love the new forum middle or last name
Thanks Stephanie, Melody Anne Moore is my legal name. :)


What happened to your formatting? Your posts lately have line breaks in them like an epileptic fit!
It's not my formatting as much as it is probably your Screen Font Size (if using IE) or the Zoom (if using Firefox).

I have always formatted my paragraphs, however I will make my lines shorter so they don't break,
however if you have increased font size or zoom to read the text, then maybe you need to have
your eyes tested - please don't take offence to this comment, because no offence intended.

[lavistaa62]

Perhaps we need to more clearly define "flip-flop". For my purposes, I am defining it a person who one day presents male then the next day female while at the same time interacting with the same people in the same activities.

For example one day the go you work as a woman then the next day as a man and you just keep flip-flopping back and forth confusing everyone around you with no regard for you actions only to have you stand out as being strange.
.

I'd agree with you and add it's probably not to that person's social or professional benefit AND THATS WHY I ADMIRE THEM. In my ideal world, there would be people who lived as "severe" male and female roles (think models and weight lifters) and everything inbetween. Men could act as "wives" to GG and vice versa. We would not be restricted in the clothing we wear or the way we present. That's not the way it is now for males but it will only change as people brave enough to gender screw or CD in public gradually change those perceptions. I'd love to be able to go stealth but that's not going to happen so it'll be up to today's generation to gradually expose the general public until our kids or grandkids can do as we wished we could do (without social or professional consequences). Social advancement doesn't come without suffering to those who enable it.

[Rianna Humble]

It's not my formatting as much as it is probably your Screen Font Size (if using IE) or the Zoom (if using Firefox).

I have to disagree with you here, Melody. I do not change the zoom level and only some of your postings show up with odd-looking line breaks. No-one else's and not all of yours, there must therefore be something that you do differently in those posts than in others and very much differently to anyone else on these forums.

[CharleneT]

I'm sort of a shape shifter. For example, last Sunday morning I went to Sunday school and then church dressed as a guy. Even though I under dress fem, on the outside I wore jeans, a sweater, and suede slip on shoes. My hair is styled in a feminine wedge and I have no facial hair. I get my brows waxed once a month. The people that know me know that I always have big hair. After church I put on a light zip windbreaker and tied a long knitted scarf around my neck. Then I drove to a corner grocery for milk. As I walked to the small checkout counter I had the milk basket in one hand and my black zippered wallet in the other. The lady in front of me decided to get one more item. She looked at me and said to the checkout lady," Wait on her first while I get another item." I thanked her and smiled. The checkout lady knows that I am a male. She just said OK. That was nice of her to not blow my cover. Leanne

Hmmm... There is a lot of room under that term so common these days: transgender. Here in this forum there are a majority of transsexual folks. What you are describing sounds like what some call "gender benders". Folks whose presentation defies an easy label. Three cheers for those people because I think it could help general society to learn there is more to the world than just male and female. Your description of how you looked does fit that "GB" role, and the title of the thread "Accidental passing" as well. I think in many occasions people end up doing some accidental passing. Often when that becomes obvious there is a little insult taken "...I'm not a woman, why did you call me Mame..." sort of thing. Or, in case like yours, a smile and happy accident. The only problem you may encounter is that the more "bent" the more confused people around you might be. I do agree with Katesback that you are likely be "read" as gay. I have quite a large number of gay male friends here and you're outfit is definitely in their range of day to day clothing. As long as you do not mind creating confusion about your gender, then it sounds like a life to me ? !! I would consider having some answers ready for common questions that may come up as you interact with people, especially those who do not know you well, but see you often ( church for example ).

I also agree with Traci, in that I think flip-floper ( as she describes ) do just confuse the world in general and we don't really need that. I was never a flipfloper, but I surely did have a period where I was one gender in work related/family situations and another elsewhere. Truly, it was complete misery for me and although I do not regret that time, I would not want to repeat it. It's a bitch to have to remember to "be" the right flip in any given situation. It also created some rumors of the possible lack of Charlene's sanity !! :yahoo:

One thing that confuses me though, you said "The checkout lady knows that I am a male. She just said OK. That was nice of her to not blow my cover.", so I assume you were trying to pass ? That would make it not so accidental ?

[Melody Moore]

I have to disagree with you here, Melody. I do not change the zoom level and only some of your postings show up with odd-looking line breaks.
Oops, my bad, I just hit the Reset on the Zoom in firefox and it went slightly larger, somehow I must have zoomed out but it made
no difference to me, I could read everything perfectly. So I guess my eyesight is now a lot better than I first thought. I use to wear
glasses before, but now I find that I don't have such a need, so this might be because of the hormones as well from what I read once.

Getting back on-topic talking about Gender Benders...

When I was in hospital late last year as some will remember, I was sitting outside having a cigarette when an aboriginal sister-girl
or I should say 'gender bender' came up and sat near me & some other people who I got to know. This aboriginal male was wearing
women's jeans, a top & was wearing 5" heels, but had a very masculine face with a 3 day growth on his face. When he spoke to me,
he sounded as gay as they come & nothing like a female. I totally ignored him, because I felt he was an embarrassment & nothing
but an insult to other trans-folk & mostly because he also appeared to be drunk or was on drugs.

The people who I got to know also knew I was transsexual because I told them I was. One of my new friends made
a comment to me when this guy left... 'You are OK, I am fine with you because I understand who you are, but
I don't know what to make of that, is that a he or a she?' A number of other friends I knew also agreed with this.

I know some here might take offence to my comments here, but just because you might be a cross-dresser,
a drag-queen or androgynous male that is part of the transgender spectrum, but it doesn't mean that as a
transsexual female I have to like you, or associate with you or even talk to you. I choose who I want as friends.

I also believe that because the OP posted this in the transsexual forum because they are looking or some type of
validation here from the Transsexual community and I believe this to be the case by how the OP is also boasting
about how well they pass as a female in androgynous mode. But that is just my personal opinion of course.

[Hope]

When he spoke to me,
he sounded as gay as they come & nothing like a female. I totally ignored him, because I felt he was an embarrassment & nothing
but an insult to other trans-folk

One of my new friends made
a comment to me when this guy left... 'You are OK, I am fine with you because I understand who you are, but
I don't know what to make of that, is that a he or a she?' A number of other friends I knew also agreed with this.

I know some here might take offence to my comments here, but just because you might be a cross-dresser,
a drag-queen or androgynous male that is part of the transgender spectrum, but it doesn't mean that as a
transsexual female I have to like you, or associate with you or even talk to you. I choose who I want as friends.


There is a difference between being friends with someone, and being a decent human being to another person who walks the planet with you. I can't imagine sitting next to someone and blatantly ignoring them when they spoke to me... Because I didn't like the way they were dressed? No one is suggesting that you hang out and get together at parties, but you can at least acknowledge another human beings existence - while they share the same space with you.


I am surprised by this thread. For a group that has faced ridicule and harassment for being themselves, you can sure dish it back out. You ask people to accept you put you are quick to judge those that don't fit your mold or view. Of all groups this one should understand that gender is NOT black or white, yet you act threatened when one of your own falls outside the 2 party system....
Check the avatar....guess I am a gender fck....

I couldn't have said it better.

I find it particularly repugnant when a group that has known discrimination chooses to discriminate against others. When you know what harm you are doing it is somehow worse when you choose to harm others than it is when you don't understand the pain you are causing.

Even if discrimination in some fashion were OK and acceptable, all of us, as members of a group labeled as "freaks" by most of society would be in no position to discriminate against anyone. Much less our own.

I understand the impulse. We all hate to see in other people the things we hate most about ourselves, or worry most about ourselves... it is a natural human experience, and I have definitely felt it, but come on people, get the fu(# over it. Be better than that. Lets rise above our base emotions and fears.

[Melody Moore]

I can't imagine sitting next to someone and blatantly ignoring them when they spoke to me...

I can and with good reason, you more than likely wouldn't have spoke to him either with the state he was in. So
why did you ignore this part of my post... "& mostly because he also appeared to be drunk or was on drugs."

And who I choose to talk to is my business, nobody else's.

[Debra Jane]

I know where Melody is coming from, you haven't really been confronted until you engage a Cairns aboriginal who is drunk/drugged or both, believe me they have a way of getting in your face that leaves you with nowhere to escape.

[Melody Moore]

Thank you Debra, that pretty much sums it up.

If you engage an aboriginal who is drunk or on drugs, they are extremely embarrassing & become very hard to shake off. They start asking for cigarettes & money. And when you don't give them what they want, they have a history of becoming very violent. Aboriginals here in Australia cannot handle alcohol because it was not part of their culture until the British colonised Australia nearly 250 years ago.

I also understand this is pretty much the same the same story with North American Indians.

[Hope]

I also understand this is pretty much the same the same story with North American Indians.

Yeah... that is the stereotype...

[Melody Moore]

Yeah... that is the stereotype...
It's not a stereotype Hope, it's fact. The native aboriginals of both America & Australia never drank alcohol before westerners settled in both these countries. Europeans have been drinking alcohol for centuries and therefore have a much better tolerance to it. I only wish you could see how bad the Australian aboriginal is when they've been drinking, I am sure that you would have a totally different outlook. Aboriginals & alcohol don't mix & that is why it is illegal to have it on an a aboriginal mission. The problem is that not all live on a mission where such things are stringently controlled.

[Jessinthesprings]

I for one will likely never be able to pass simply because of my size... And i'm ok with that. I can only hope that I have femminized enough that I can be accpeted for who I truely am on the inside. However, those that can it's an increadible gift and if you want to call it gender Scr______ then so be it but, some are to afraid or unwilling to give certain things up by going full time and I don't fault them one bit.