What makes a "male" (or female)? (all answers welcome)

[sandra-leigh]

Those of you who feel that they act or believe or emote differently when in female mode than in male mode, or those of you who feel that you are one or the other gender or at least know someone you wouldn't hesitate as classifying as being one gender or the other:

What, to you, are the non-physical traits of maleness? What behaviors do you identify as "male" rather than "female"? Do you see particular behaviors as being "more common" in males than in females, or do you see them as being "rare but not unknown" in females, or do you see them as being exclusively male?

Are there particular things that to you are "evidence" that you are male or female (as opposed to you "just knowing inside") ?


Please assume that any responses are statements of feelings and personal experience even if "I feel" or "In my opinion" is not specifically stated. This thread is not intended as a flame-war, only to gather consensus type information about what is generally recognized as "male" vs "female".


(This question branches out of some discussion in the Transsexual Forum. I "know inside me" that I am not "male", but I do not "know inside me" that I am "female". But I only know what I experience as "male", or as "well, maybe uncommon but not definitely female".)

[Stephanie Anne]

$5 and a sandwich will make you full at most fast food places. That's about it.

[Joanne f]

A very straight forward question yet quite a difficult one to answer especially for someone who is nether one or the other and as you say it is something more that you feel inside rather than something you can say what the difference actually is ,more of a biological thing than a physical thing .
It is difficult to stay away from the feminine and masculine answers that we assume we feel are right as all but the very masculine or the very feminine can show or feel sides of ether but maybe it has a little to do with how the different genders deals with things , a male will have a different approach to dealing with something than a female would (in general) especially when it comes to groups of ether , male`s are inclined to gang up more than females are , yes i know females will but it is then for a specific reason when they feel certain rights have been violated where as males do it for sport . just a different way of thinking but hard to explain .

[lauraabdl]

Sorry to deep for me. I'm me and thats that, I behave more ladylike when dressed and wear perfume and jewerly, that I don't do when in drab.

[KrystalA]

Hmmm...yes, a pretty deep question. Personally, I feel very feminine when dressed en femme, but of course that doesn't truly make me a female. I guess it's a mind-set thing for me. When in drab I'm like any other man. You pose a very difficult question, for which I feel there is no right or wrong answer because there are so many diffrent levels to CDing, and everyone answers to their own inner self. Geez, now even I'm confused...LOL

[ReineD]

I think that when most people try to define gender they can only draw from personal experience, so to broaden the definitions, they must evoke images of stereotypical behaviors. But in reality, there is such a wide swing of emotional responses and cognitive processes within individuals of each gender that it is difficult to pinpoint any one trait as being gender dominant.

So honestly I think it has everything to do with personal identification ... and biological functions.

[morgan51]

My therapist posed the same question to me and I couldn't come up with much to differentiate? I am me no matter how I am presenting. As a female i'm not as agressive, more apt to sympathize with another.Women are looking more to how something feels rather than how some situation is or how something works. What color what shape, how soft or hard is the object? Men seem to be more about function and utility and how well something is built. Women notice how you are dressed what you did with your hair makeup clothes etc. most men don't. Women talk endlessly about everything men just get the point across and stop there.

[Natalee]

When I dress, I do feel feminine. But I only do moderate/drab around the wife, and girl sweats when we are painting nails, etc.. But underneath I'm always nervous, and not sure how I'm acting. Guess it's still too new being dressed with another person in the room, and I haven't found the comfortable medium..

[Casey]

Male and female is pretty cut and dried based on the genitalia we were born with. I believe we all have masculine and feminine traits that vary in dominance from time to time. I just think it is sad that society dictates that because I am a 'male' I have to wear a specific style of clothing and it does not include my panties, bras, garters, stockings and all the other wonderful clothes our genetic 'female' counterparts get to enjoy publicly.

[2SpeedTranny]

Those of you who feel that they act or believe or emote differently when in female mode than in male mode,


It's all in your head.

If you think you're supposed to act a certain way depending on your appearance, then that's precisely what you'll do. The level to which it changes, I believe, depends on how good of an actor you are.

Putting on a dress and makeup no more makes a man a woman than wearing some white plastic makes you a real Imperial Stormtrooper.

[Jodi]

What makes a male or a female? I think it comes down to the plumbing, nothing else.

Jodi

[eluuzion]

greetings Earthlings,

86% of a child’s foundation for a child’s intellect, personality and skills is formed by age 5. (Brain Initiative, Wisconsin Council on Children and Families, 2006)

Exact ages typically vary between 5-6 years as the age when a child has fully established the basic personality they will carry throughout their lifetime. Personality is a reflection of perceptions. Perceptions are formed from personal experiences. Reality may be absolute, but our perception of reality is always uniquely subjective.

We are all born with a genetic physical determination of being female or male. The degree to which we adopt and exhibit the socially defined “norms” attributed to our physical gender are influenced by many factors. A major influential factor is the degree our primary caretakers (parents, etc.) encourage or discourage our alignment with the socially defined role expectations of a male or female. (especially during those first 5-6 years when personality and perception “foundations” are formed).

Male vs. Female “differences” and “similarities” is a research process of identifying characteristics typically shared within members of one group (females), but are absent or negligible in another group. (males). Results and claims are average based and always assumed to contain a certain amount of “exceptions to the rule”.

Most of the claims are best interpreted by starting each statement with “in general”…
For example…generally speaking…

Men and women communicate differently. Men are “resolvers” and women are “relators”.
Men focus on finding solutions. Women focus on understanding feelings, emotions and establishing rapport.

Women nod their heads to indicate they are still listening. Men only nod their heads to when they agree with what the speaker is saying.

Women smile much more than men do.

All of these “differences” are interesting to hear, whether they come from extensive research or from a single person. They always contain the bias of perception, which will prevent anyone from reaching a point of 100% factual consensus, because...

We do not see things as they are.
We see them as we are.
~ The Talmud ~

That’s my opinion…and I’m sticking to it…:D

:love:

[Lorileah]

Interesting question. It all comes back to learned stereotypes if you rule out physical properties.

[Avana]

I think the other question that comes out of this is, is the difference really between 'being male' and 'being female'? or is it between being yourself and not being yourself? is the difference between being self confident, open, and at peace with ones identity, or isolated, defensive, and fragmented?

[Rianna Humble]

I find it difficult to point to any one trait in my being to say that that is why I know I am a woman and for every part of my personality that I believe comes from my femininity you can probably point to a cisgendered male who displays the same quality.

I think that the generalities mentioned by eluuzion definitely apply in my case even though my job entails finding solutions to other people's computer problems.

Interestingly enough, since I stopped hiding who I am, my customer relation skills seem to have moved up onto another level. It was recently noted in a performance review that I am better able to deliver unwelcome news to a customer because I come across as caring. I already had this trait when I was pretending to be a man, but I guess something in me was holding back a bit until I became free to be myself.

A little example of that - when someone is describing a problem to me, my responses are likely to be along the lines "I understand ... that must be very frustrating ... I can see why you feel that way ... I should be able to help", my male colleagues responses tend to be something like "uh huh ... OK ... let me fix that". You might think that their responses are better, and they certainly get some positive customer feedback, but both approaches work.

There are also some more blatant generalities:

- womenfolk often like to shop, menfolk generally see shopping as a chore to be endured in the shortest possible time.

- women like to take time over how we dress, most men just throw on something (although as I said before there are notable exceptions on both sides)

- we tend to react differently to compliments as well. Menfolk tend to dismiss compliments about their presentation with a comment such as "I needed new glasses" or "This suit? yeah, thanks". Womenfolk tend to react with something like "Do you like it?" or "Yes, I felt it would go well with ..." or just "thank you for noticing"

- men tend to reward good performance, women tend to reward a valuable contribution

No prizes for guessing on which side I fall in those comparisons.

[noeleena]

Hi,
A few problems then for me .

Eluuzion, what if you had a mind blank for your first 6 years of life.all most 7. like i did . & you have no real idear of what you think you know, is only & not that much was told you. I went to a school for most of a year between 5 & 6 or 7 . & i had to ask if i went there. there was a pic just not me in it. just found out last year.

& you did not see male or female as being different. that leaves me in a delemer. in many ways makes little difference wether you are or more so me having plumbing or not or male or female you all know what i am so i can only answer so far each way & then do i really know the all of it . no i dont , i do see many differences between male & female tho i cant relate to men & yes im more at home with woman .

The hardest thing for me is , I have to walk in the middle & can only look left & right.

This of cause gives reason for me to see that many males are so aggreasive & thier intent is to harm & get what ever they wont.
Tho there are some who are very kind & loveing ,& what drives a male not really sure tho i see hormons & that T is a driveing force .

Women . most , as to thier make up loveing ,careing , giveing , self sacreficeing & most of all , my hobby horse , carrying thier young ones .
tho the tables can be turned around in some respects,

When we get in to the mind & the hormones that then becomes a magor difference the emotional, psychological . then the differences become very different between the male & females.
In how we interact , do things . see things & why we do things the way we do.
i may be 63 & yet still dont understand men.

I just click with women .one interesting point is i combine up to a point male & female to gether. a mishmash no real differences . i spos there are , i just see it closely linked to gether.
I know if i could use the right words id make better sence of it all. & then ..... being a nut case i dont have to worry about it , just enjoy being who i am.

...noeleena...

[Kate Simmons]

Most of it is learned behavior brought about by society 's beliefs or teachings of assumed roles. We humans can be very adaptable when we want to be. The question is are we our own person or someone else's?:)

[Jennifer Freeman]

Most of it is learned behavior brought about by society 's beliefs or teachings of assumed roles. We humans can be very adaptable when we want to be. The question is are we our own person or someone else's?:)

Agreed - I am who I want to be, not what others say I ought to be. 'Society' varies anyway, depending upon race and culture. The reason there are rules banning particular types of behaviour is that there are somany of us who don't conform and society requires all members to conform - but that varies from society to society!
Jennifer Freeman

[Karren H]

I always thought it had something to do with puppy dog tails vs sugar and spice? But I could be wrong.

[eluuzion]

Hi,

I know if i could use the right words id make better sence of it all. & then ..... being a nut case i dont have to worry about it , just enjoy being who i am.

...noeleena...

noeleena...

I do not know the circumstances that account for your inability to recall your early childhood. But I believe I am safe in assuming it is not a pleasant story.

“Childhood amnesia” is the inability to remember our earliest childhood. It happens to all humans. It varies by culture as much as two years, but for most of us anything earlier than 3.5 years old is a white-out. This does not mean those blank years did not impact our life, it simply means we cannot consciously recall the events. Fuzzy or total absent memory of those early years is no cause for panic. It is simply interesting to know how much those early years influenced our perception of the world in all of our years that follow.

We are what we are and where we are... whether we know how we got here or not.:) I have always focused on what I can do, never what I can not do. I believe that choice keeps me happy most of the time, regardless of the circumstances.

I also agree with the secret to happiness that you have discovered. Nobody will lock us up if we just pretend to be a candy bar. Smooth on the outside, but nutty on the inside…:D


Just for fun, here are some other Male vs Female stats...

Apart from the obvious, how do the sexes differ?
The average height for men is 1.77m while women are on average 12cm shorter. (sexual records.com)
The average female hip measurement is 1.00m while men’s hips are on average 8cm smaller. (sexual records.com)
The average male weighs 78 kilos which is 13 kilos heavier than the average female. (sexual records.com)
Women have a 78% greater chance of becoming blind. (World Health Organisation).
Men are 2.7 times more likely to become involved in a road traffic accident. (World Health Organisation).
Men are 4 times more likely to die of a smoking related illness. (World Health Organisation).
Women are 3 times more likely to suffer from migraines compared to men. (FDA)
Although men are more likely to suffer from heart attacks, women are more likely to die within 1 year of a heart attack. (FDA)
Men are 4 times more likely to subscribe to an internet dating website. (Jupiter Research).
Although 58% of the world’s TV news readers are women, only 21% of news subjects are female. (WACC)
Women have less body water (52% for the average woman v. 61% for the average man). This means that a man’s body will automatically dilute the alcohol more than a woman’s body, even if the two people weigh the same amount. (Brown University)
Men are twice as likely as women to become victims of online fraud (spamfo)
A male’s computer is 21% more likely to be affected by a virus compare to a female’s computer. (spamfo)
Men are more intelligent than women by about five IQ points on average, making them better suited for “tasks of high complexity. (British Journal of Psychology)
A study from the University of Nebraska Lincoln found college women to be more weight-conscious and more likely to diet than college men. Among men, 45.2% were overweight or obese, compared to 13.9% of women. But 57.4% of the women said they needed to lose weight, compared to 28.6% of the men.
Men are approximately 3 times more likely to commit suicide then women. (Royal College of Psychiatrists)



HaveFun/BeHappy,

:love:

[danielle.cd]

geez people they tell you this in kinder garden , men have a penis and girls have a vagina , did u sleep through that lol

[Jess Marie]

geez people they tell you this in kinder garden , men have a penis and girls have a vagina , did u sleep through that lol

Zzzzzzzz.... :D I must have

[Shelly Preston]

geez people they tell you this in kinder garden , men have a penis and girls have a vagina , did u sleep through that lol

You are right but then they dont inform kids about transexuallity in kindergarten or maybe I mised that lesson

[Patricia Jane]

I think I feel and act more gentle when in the Female role. Things that anger and upset me in male role, I judge and review more senisible when I am in the female mold!

[Rianna Humble]

geez people they tell you this in kinder garden , men have a penis and girls have a vagina , did u sleep through that lol

And you class that as a non-physical difference? :eek:

[GingerLeigh]

greetings Earthlings,

86% of a child’s foundation for a child’s intellect, personality and skills is formed by age 5. (Brain Initiative, Wisconsin Council on Children and Families, 2006)


:love:

Do you live in a freaking library or something?

Ginger

[eluuzion]

Do you live in a freaking library or something?
Ginger

hiya Ginger...

Ah, the challenges of internet discourse…20 ways to interpret every post…:heehee:
Your post confused me…could you clarify your point in posting it?

I’m lost…thanks.

:love:

[GingerLeigh]

Hello eluuzion,
I was just commenting that it seems the majority of your posts have more factual information than any other posts. Referencing so much data to so many authors I simply assume you either are a living encyclopaedia or that you live in a library! Just trying to be funny. I enjoy reading your posts, it saves me time in having to look this stuff up myself!

Ginger

[sometimes_miss]

- womenfolk often like to shop, menfolk generally see shopping as a chore to be endured in the shortest possible time.

Nope. We just like to shop for different things. Witness any guys at the power tool isle in one of the big box stores, or when we go to Harbor Frieght. Or the amount of time we 'waste' at car shows, as opposed to women looking at clothing/make up/ jewelry. How many guys want to 'try on' the new Ferrari/Vette/Porsche/Aston etc.?? Pretty much the same as girls want to try on the beautiful dress, shoes, necklaces, etc.. I've seen younger teen girls hanging around the make up isle at Walgreens (o.k., I was evesdropping) and talk about make up and such; reminded me very much of how I used to stay at the parts counter at my local Honda motorcycle dealer, and talk about bikes/parts/ etc and how to customize my bike.

[meri]

If you ever take a close look at women's behavior, it's pretty clear that they express a wide range of behavior touching what is classically considered "feminine" and also "masculine". Our definitions of what is feminine and masculine are outdated and based on cultural norms that were in place as we grew up. Women have made a lot of progress in the past 5 decades and it's hard to tell by behavior alone what gender they are.

Men have a wide range of interest and talents, but those which are classically considered "feminine" have always been discouraged and hence, repressed by the man with the particular interest. Hence, we have not made much progress in the past 5 decades.

I have been digging into my personality to take stock of what is there and I have found an interesting mix of classical feminine traits and classical masculine.

If you dig into the personality of any woman, you will another, unique mix of classical feminine and masculine traits.

We are all unique, men and women alike and our personality traits are not necessarily a good indicator of your "gender".

Thus, to my point... If you are altering your behavior to align yourself with what you consider the perfect expression of femininity, you are going to miss the mark. You will miss the mark because there is no mark, every women, every man is unique and different.

I suggest instead that you find your authentic self and "be" that, period. If your authentic self behaves in a more feminine manner, then fine, be that. If your authentic self leans in a more masculine direction (doubtful), then be that. Chances are, you will meet yourself somewhere in the middle.

Clothing does not make a man or a woman for that matter, it's what's inside that counts.

[Julogden]

geez people they tell you this in kinder garden , men have a penis and girls have a vagina , did u sleep through that lol

Sarcastic humor, I presume? If you said "male" and "female" instead of "men" and "girls", you'd be close to being accurate, but not entirely. Genitals have little to do with being a man or woman, and some females are born with male genitals, some males are born with female genitals, and some people are born with varying combinations. :)

Carol

[Avana]

geez people they tell you this in kinder garden , men have a penis and girls have a vagina , did u sleep through that lol

sex is different than gender role or even gender identity. And everyone's gender is is really comprised of many different factors.


Sex ------------------- Male <-------------------------------- Intersex -------------------------------> Female

Gender Role --------- Masculine <-------------------------- Androgynous ---------------------------> Feminine

Gender Identity ----- Man <--------- TG, Genderqueer, Whatever you call yourself etc ---------> Woman

Sexual Orientation -- Men <------------------------- Both, Neither, All, Other ----------------------> Women

[eluuzion]

Hello eluuzion,
I was just commenting that it seems the majority of your posts have more factual information than any other posts. Referencing so much data to so many authors I simply assume you either are a living encyclopaedia or that you live in a library! Just trying to be funny. I enjoy reading your posts, it saves me time in having to look this stuff up myself!

Ginger

Ginger...
Yep, I am more the encyclopedia scenario (the twisted, uncensored volumes with the missing pages.:o) I have an extremely curious mind and absorb information like a sponge. I read legal briefs and medical journals like others read Harlequin romance novels. I retain most of it, or remember where I read it. My daughter always giggled at me the entire 30 minutes of “Jeopardy“, telling me I could make us rich on that show, lol. :heehee:

On any given day, I can post something a bit interesting , or just drive you nuts…lol.:brolleyes::heehee::brolleyes:

:hugs:
:love:

[sissystephanie]

What makes a "Male" or a "Female?" Being a religious person, I will say that only God can detirmine that, and He does that when you are first formed! Having said that, I will add that Jodi and Danielle answered the question quite clearly. If you are born with male parts, you are indeed a Male!! If you are born with female parts you are definitely a Female!! You might dress and act differerently in order to convince people you are something else, but unless you have had SRS you are still who you were as a baby. Even if you have SRS, you will never really change your sex. Appearance, yes!! But actual change will never happen. I dress as a female, but I know that I am a male and always will be!! And I am very happy with that!!

BTW, people are probably going to ask "what about the mental parts of who we are?" The mental parts are only for a given person. What you are thinking is not my business, nor do I care about it. If you think you should have been a female, that is your business and yours alone.

[Julogden]

What makes a "Male" or a "Female?" Being a religious person, I will say that only God can detirmine that, and He does that when you are first formed! Having said that, I will add that Jodi and Danielle answered the question quite clearly. If you are born with male parts, you are indeed a Male!! If you are born with female parts you are definitely a Female!!

Actually, we all start out with basic female external genitalia in early prenatal development. And some genetic males are born with female genitals, some genetic females are born with male genitals, and some people have varying degrees of both.

Carol

[Rianna Humble]

What makes a "Male" or a "Female?" Being a religious person, I will say that ...Even if you have SRS, you will never really change your sex

But then according to your belief system, you were predetermined not to understand the difference between sex and gender or the fact that many are born intersex.

In the real world, more and more people are coming to understand that natal sex does not equal gender and there is a body of thought that classes gender dysphoria as another kind of intersex condition. I'm not qualified to comment on that last bit, but I am glad that we are not stuck in the dark ages of a few years ago where people were treated as "sinful" when their body did not match their gender. I know I suffered from that for decades.

[2SpeedTranny]

In the real world, more and more people are coming to understand that natal sex does not equal gender


And on the other hand, no amount of popping estrogen pills will change your chromosomes from XY to XX.

So where does that leave us?

Oh, it would have been so nice if it were such that I could take some pills and become (genetically) a scion of the Rockefeller family (or close equivalent)... perhaps some shots that might turn my blood from red to blue...

... I know, I know. It''s not nice to suggest the line of reasoning I'm heading down. I know I'm new here, but I have lurked here a while... I realize this is a very sensitive arena where feelings overshadow logic...

... I seem to remember a member of this forum who was born XXY -- which is to say, truly "intersexed" -- yet had no desire to go under the knife to change anything --

-- so I really wonder, then, why it is...

... hmmm

...

I had a brilliant thought here, but forgot it. Let's go a different direction. I have a significant number of female friends -- which I will admit is odd for a straight guy -- but enough, upon hearing of their uniquely female problems to be enormously grateful not to be one of them --

-- oh hell -- forgot that too. Damn medicinal herbs.

I get what you're saying; really, I do. But I still utterly fail to see how some creative plastic surgery rectifies this alleged creative mistake.

Enlighten me, please.

[Rianna Humble]

I have not argued that my natal sex does not differ from my gender so your point about chromosomes is moot. Neither have I accepted your creationist arguments which are not based on any science. If you wish to believe in extra-terrestrials who existed when nothing existed, that is your privilege, don't ask me to accept your beliefs as scientific fact. I have suffered under the teachings of those who through deeply religious conviction failed to understand the difference between gender and sex.


There is scientific evidence that transwomen's brains bear more resemblance to a natal woman's brain than to a natal man's brain and no amount of religious hocus pocus will undo that evidence. The fact that your brain is aligned to your natal sex does not mean that it has to be so for everyone on this planet.

I find it interesting that you seem to think it odd that a "straight guy" can be friends with a woman but don't know where that leads.

I am not surprised that you cannot understand why some people feel the need to have their body reflect their gender - yours already does so it's a case of "I'm alright Jack". Fortunately, there are people who can see beyond their own limited experience.

[Julogden]

And on the other hand, no amount of popping estrogen pills will change your chromosomes from XY to XX.

So where does that leave us?

Oh, it would have been so nice if it were such that I could take some pills and become (genetically) a scion of the Rockefeller family (or close equivalent)... perhaps some shots that might turn my blood from red to blue...

... I know, I know. It''s not nice to suggest the line of reasoning I'm heading down. I know I'm new here, but I have lurked here a while... I realize this is a very sensitive arena where feelings overshadow logic...

... I seem to remember a member of this forum who was born XXY -- which is to say, truly "intersexed" -- yet had no desire to go under the knife to change anything --

-- so I really wonder, then, why it is...

... hmmm

...

I had a brilliant thought here, but forgot it. Let's go a different direction. I have a significant number of female friends -- which I will admit is odd for a straight guy -- but enough, upon hearing of their uniquely female problems to be enormously grateful not to be one of them --

-- oh hell -- forgot that too. Damn medicinal herbs.

I get what you're saying; really, I do. But I still utterly fail to see how some creative plastic surgery rectifies this alleged creative mistake.

Enlighten me, please.

Feelings are not overshadowing logic in the least. You need to educate yourself on this subject if you want to avoid insulting people here. Do some reading, there's plenty of literature available on this subject. You're coming across as belligerent, ignorant and biased. It isn't anyone else's responsibility to enlighten you.

Some genetic males are women, some genetic females are men. We're talking about gender identity here, the internal self-image, and gender identity is impossible to change once it's established early in life. It's easier to alter the physical shell to agree with gender identity, thus the use of hormone therapy and surgeries to effect the desired changes to make the physical body more in compliance with gender identity.

Carol

[sandra-leigh]

Please, no religious arguments. As I indicated in my original posting:


Please assume that any responses are statements of feelings and personal experience even if "I feel" or "In my opinion" is not specifically stated. This thread is not intended as a flame-war, only to gather consensus type information about what is generally recognized as "male" vs "female".

Thus, if someone says something you disagree with, keep in mind that they are stating their beliefs, this is not the thread (and this might not be the right forum section) in which to try to convince them that their beliefs are mistaken. You can always start a new thread quoting from their post if you feel the matter important enough.


To clarify my original question: I am asking about gender identity, not about biological sex.

My apologies that I have not had time to respond to the posters; my technical work takes over my life at times.


I have, by the way, personally met at least two intersex people (who have told me explicitly); for confidentiality reasons, I cannot discuss their situations.

[Avana]

Actually, we all start out with basic female external genitalia in early prenatal development. And some genetic males are born with female genitals, some genetic females are born with male genitals, and some people have varying degrees of both.

Carol

I guess that happens when God sneezes, though, right? :lol:

[shesadvl]

I guess that happens when God sneezes, though, right? :lol:



:lol::lol2: well put hahahaha :clap: :lol:

I think that above would sum up how those born with more then one genital, makes em more then a haemaphrodite. I have worked with a few
their answer to this is they can dress either way now how clevers that....lol..;)
they live quite happily and some are married, without having the corrective surgery.

[Chickhe]

I could not find the link, but today I saw an image that sums it up. There was an elderly couple pictured looking at a woman in a tight top and belly showing at the airport or something... the woman had a look of being disgusted and the man had a slight grin. I think if you can accomplish that, then you have figured it out the difference.

[busker]

To clarify my original question: I am asking about gender identity, not about biological sex.

.
" Orenstein finds one such enlightening explanation in developmental psychology research showing that until as late as age 7, children are convinced that external signs — clothing, hairstyle, favorite color, choice of toys — determine one’s sex. “It makes sense, then, that to ensure you will stay the sex you were born you’d adhere rigidly to the rules as you see them and hope for the best,” she writes. “That’s why 4-year-olds, who are in what is called ‘the inflexible stage,’ become the self-*appointed chiefs of the gender police."

Sandra-Leigh, this may not necessarily answer your question, but I thought that the snippet above--from a book review in the NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/books/review/Paul-t.html
[ The entire review is worth reading but the book in question deals exclusively with young girls hence the title--Cinderella Ate My daughter.]

was intersting. I have actually thought about your question but all that comes to mind in the usual drivel that one hears incessantly.
"