losing hope

[erica12b]

After finding this site over five years ago, I was so full of hope and was a wash with the open and excepting attitudes here. After a lot a thought and reading many posts I felt that if I was to ever find a excepting gg to date and share my life with, I needed to be as truth full as I could with out in dangering myself, I created a my space page and Erica started to look for friends to talk with and network , the goal was to find gg’s in my area to pen pal , shop with , and hopefully date , all the time knowing that the guy , liked to be one of the girls too. I never wanted to find my self in the – I need to tell you something – spot.
Never wanted to put any girl in that spot (betrayed, lied to, not the man she feel in love with –rock and a hard place spot.)
After all this time an talking with around ten gg’s (6 or 7 in my town) I find they don’t mind talking, telling there problems to , giving me advice, but they just don’t want to meet or date a guy like me . (There was one I did date, but she wanted to push me to be Erica all the time made the man in me feel left out (for another post))

Now I find am losing hope, for the guys with excepting so’s you should rethink just how lucky you are, and the ones that –put up with it - just, you should feel better and lucky too, your not alone, there is some one to fight with, and make up with, that put up with your shit and is not tell every one your secrets,

I never liked the -hide it tell they care – advocates but it looks like they are more in tune with the world . I don’t want to do it this way , but am losing hope (me)

No one can change the world, or the way people think but I had hoped some things could change,

[suzy1]

Finding an accepting GG is as likely as wining the jackpot with a scratch card. It’s possible and some have done it but……………..
This is the real world. Sorry.

SUZY

[Sally24]

I think I would have preferred casual dating to living with a woman who didn't know this part of me. I was lucky in finding mine the first time I had a serious relationship. Don't give into the Dark Side.

[kimdl93]

[the goal was to find gg’s in my area to pen pal , shop with , and hopefully date , all the time knowing that the guy , liked to be one of the girls too.

There was one I did date, but she wanted to push me to be Erica all the time made the man in me feel left out (for another post)

Why give up hope - your efforts already resulted in finding one GG that was fully accepting. I can assure you there are more. But, I have to tell you, a lot of us would have been thrilled to find a GG that encouraged us to CD all the time. If she's still out there in the market, I'd go back and explain why you need a little guy time once in a while.

[Karren H]

I'm living with an unaccepting one and I haven't lost hope... I just lowered my goals and figured out what I needed to do to survive in both worlds.... if you can't do something you want because its out of your hands don't give up and wallow in self pity... Change your plans to the next acceptable alternative. Think out of the box... all problems have a solution of some sort or another, imho.

[jacky83]

Change your plans to the next acceptable alternative. Think out of the box... all problems have a solution of some sort or another, imho.Well said Karren.

[cordgrass]

Ten women isn't all that much. And even an accepting woman is a woman. Women expect the man to make the first move and indicate sexual attraction, even if the man is wearing heels. Throw out that "hopefully date" mindset. Your Princess Charming isn't going to come along and sweep you off your feet. I'm not saying you need to learn PUA tricks, but even a regular non-CD guy often has to chat up more than ten women before he finds one who bites, sometimes a lot more.

I still think that it's an easier time of it if CD's try to find women in male mode and then disclose within the first several months, before it gets too serious. Then no harm done. But if you are going to be out on the first date, fight for what you want to help with the odds.

[Maxi]

Erica, I sleep in a slip every night, and usually leave it on the bed in the morning when I get dressed. When I started dating after my divorce, I would go out with a women a couple of times, then when she suggested my place, we would come to my house. Upon entering the bedroom the question of who"s slip is that would always come up. I would just tell them it was mine. Then the questions came, I answered them honestly, and they would ask me to put it on. It made for a great time in bed.
I used this routine with several women, and there was never an issue about it. They had enough time to learn about who I was, and felt comfortable enough to crawl in bed with me. It worked with me several times, and I am still friends with the ladies that were part of this, and they give me that wicked smile and stop to talk whenever we cross paths.

If you tell them to early, they think you are weird, to late, and your not being honest. Timing is the key.

[Christie ann]

Erica,

AS Karren said, don't lose hope, find an acceptable alternative. By living in GJ you aren't exactly surrounded by like minded people and you are fighting an uphill battle. Keep on looking and exploring. There are many on this board that have tolerating and even accepting SO's. Your SO is still out there looking for you.

[Lorileah]

all problems have a solution of some sort or another, imho.

Or as I say, there is nothing in the world time and/or money can't fix.

Maybe I shop different places but I was really lucky the first time (wasn't even looking)and lucky the second time (told almost right away) and have had several offers along the way. Is it how you tell? "Hi I am Bob, I am a guy who like women's clothing but I still want you to treat me like one of the guys."? Or "look I can be the girlfriend you always wanted...but we're still gonna...you know right?" Maybe you need a little slow down. Yeah you are going to hurt a few times but I get the idea you are maybe coming on a little strong to start. Maybe you aren't but that is how I read it. Maybe just start looking in a more liberal atmosphere. Churches that you know are inclusive (Unitarian comes to mind), liberal political functions (that would be the anti-oilshale people in your area or pro-environment rallys) or maybe even relax a little on your side. You had one who wanted to explore your female side you dropped her. No relationship starts and stays perfect and it is a learning experience. It is likely that after trying to do things with that person you could have made a compromise that both of you would have liked...at least for awhile.


No one can change the world, or the way people think but I had hoped some things could change

The day after MLK day. One man who taught many people who taught many more people. He changed the world and although it isn't everything he wanted it to be it is better. And he isn't the only one who did this. Maybe you would be better saying no one can change the whole world. Things didn't work out like you planned, they rarely do. But to just give up is not what you should do. If Edison had quit we would all be watching TV by candlelight. One person can make a difference ifthey educate others and perservere

[Melissa Jill]

It might be an idea to not reveal something so personal until you have been out with the woman for a substantial amount of time.

[Natalee]

I agree fully with Maxi.

Forming an attraction & a slight initial bond, before covering intimate details would allow the GG to first build trust, and also most importantly let her know she is still safe alone with you. I do really like Maxi's being entirely open with it, when asked; but prompting that "ask" by leaving an obvious cue in the room.

When I was dating, I did become fearful or turned-off, with girls who broadcast their "full-disclosure policy" on the first 1 or 2 dates. The first dates are entirely for fun, and getting to know each other; not broadcasting intimate details.

I'm still breaking some waters with my wife; but after-all she was the one who got me started accidentally. So granted I have no first hand dating as a CD experience..

[Lorileah]

It might be an idea to not reveal something so personal until you have been out with the woman for a substantial amount of time.

See there's the rub as they say. What is the substantial amount of time? In a way I agree but I would say an insubstantial amount of time, like 3-4 dates. Before you both are too committed to a false pretense. This goes for most things beyond crossdressing, likes, dislikes, strange relatives. I am all for honesty early just not in the first three minutes. One thing here is Erica seems to be making dressing THE central issue ofthe relationship. That may be misconstrued easily as 1) they are thinking strongly about transitioning or 2) it is a fetish that the person needs to function in the relationship. Can't blame the one who wanted to push it. She may have thought it was exactly what Erica was looking for, someone to treat her as a "woman" 24/7 since that was the central issue on the MySpace page.

[Melissa Jill]

I was thinking like several months of being with the girl.
Nothing wrong with keeping certain information close to your chest until further down the line.
I find it hard to believe any woman wouldn't be put off a bit by their potential boyfriend crossdressing, you just have to wait until she feels enough for you that her feelings for you outweigh her being put off.

[kimdl93]

I agree with Lorileah on this - while I would probably not tell a girl on the first date, I certainly wouldn't wait till things got very serious and a breakup became painful for both of us.

[Lorileah]

I find it hard to believe any woman wouldn't be put off a bit by their potential boyfriend crossdressing, you just have to wait until she feels enough for you that her feelings for you outweigh her being put off.

This sounds so much like emotional blackmail. And trust me there are many women who are not put off by their male friends crossdressing. Maybe it is just that I have been associated with a complete group of people who don't follow the crowd though.

Melissa this discussion happens many times on this forum and very rarely does it work when your investment in the relationship has arrived at the point where you think she won't go. Yes it would be wonderful if every woman (or man) had the ability to let love rule, the heart over the mind so to speak, but it doesn't happen and when you have a house, home, children, coming out becomes more and more dangerous to the lifestyle you have built. So don't trust that being with someone a long time will make it easy. The pain is often worse the longer you hold out

[silhouette]

okay so this is going to make me sound really arrogant, but I'm trying to make a point here.

frankly, I am tall, dark hair, light eyes, handsome, successful, young, own my own place, really smart and educated, make good money and I have a lot of friends due to my out going and social personality.

totally taking cross dressing out of the equation.. it's still REALLY REALLY hard to meet someone to date.
I've been single for almost a year now.

It's a crap shoot. You can't be in any rush, and I'm pretty much prepared to die alone at this point due to the odds.
But hey, that's just me.

[erica12b]

im so frustrated, i just want to cry, i spend a lot of time making friends and as pen pan the girl are great , but they do not want to meet and then get to know the guy

im on a layoff right now and have time on my hands , when i am back to work i have little time on weekends (i work weekends ) im just frustrated im trying to think out side of the box (i think ) lol

[Lynn Marie]

I have to agree with a number of other posters here in that you need to impress a lady friend with your ability to be a man. After all, that's what she's really looking for.

A woman wants to be assured that you are man enough for her. That you can sweep her off her feet with your manly charm and grace. They also like to know if you can consumate a relationship. Once those things are a given and she desires your company, then you can introduce her to your feminine side too. Once you've proved your manhood, a few stockings and heels won't be all that big a deal.

[erica12b]

there has been a lot of good advice here, thank you all , i will have to put a lot of thought in to some of it .

[docrobbysherry]

U haven't kissed enuff frogs yet!:brolleyes:

STOP worrying about finding a "life partner"! START looking for a "have fun together partner"!

After I had COMPLETELY given up all thots of marriage, (age 45), I found someone I wanted to marry!:eek:
After I had decided kids weren't for me, I had one step, and one DNA, daughter!:battingeyelashes:

Get out there! Have some fun! Live your life! Stop acting desperate and worried! When the rite one comes along, YOU'LL BOTH KNOW IT!:D

[cordgrass]

Pen pals--oy! Put a little more Frank into it, if you're going to be CDing from the start :drooling:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc80tFJpTuo

[Alice Torn]

Erica, I can relate, at 68, still single, and had a difficult time, even before CDing. I had a lot of dates in my 30's, but none of the women were interested in being more than platonic friends, and some married other guys i knew. At this point in my life, and because of the collapsing economy, I am prepared to die single now. My cats are my mates! I do go to Alanon, and ACA 12 step meetings, and only a few people attend, and they are married women, but they do give me hugs. No dating, but better than nothing!

[Maxi]

Women seem to sense when a man is desperate. If you just relax, be yourself. Women like confident men. When you get a date, take them to a nice restaurant, ball game, hockey game, or just for ice cream. Even Starbucks works. No pressure, let them take the lead on how fast they want to progress with a relationship. Every woman is different, and has a different story to tell. Let them do most of the talking, but show interest in what they are saying. After a few dates, you will be surprised as to where it leads.

Now the woman I married I met on Match. There really is something to the way they match you up. We are very like minded.

[KristaE]

I'd broaden my horizons... try online dating, etc... Also, take down an honest list of the qualities you expect a suitable "mate" to have. If A+ looks are very important to you, then write that down. Be honest. Dating sites can often help out with thinking of all the attributes that might be important.

I'd say give yourself time and approach dating more as a fun activity, rather than a chore likr you seem to be treating it now.

As to when to tell her, I suppose part of the "answer" is asking yourself how much CDing is part of who you are. Are you an everyday dresser? Once a week? Month? Year? Blue Moon?

Timing is everything, but so is intensity. How much are you asking an SO to accept? For me, I don't dress everyday, so it isn't so intense that my wife has to take a huge leap to stay with me. The big the leap you ask for, the harder it is to find someone willing to take that leap. It helps to walk the path together.

[silhouette]

if you might the right person they'll accept you for who you are.
it's not easy to find, but that's part of what makes it special..

most things in life worth having aren't easy to come by

[CarlaWestin]

I can only speak from experience. With all of my relationships I have been up front with my special desires. Wife 1 played along kinda' until it was used as a weapon in our divorce. The tweener (the one between marriages) was great as she enjoyed my CDing and other proclivity and had fun with it. We simply weren't compatible on other levels. But, my Wife wants nothing to do with it. She has deep set religious morals and that is fine. I keep it under the radar and I don't make much of an issue of it. She is certainly my soul-mate and that is the most important thing to me. Good relationships contain compromises. My Wife and I just naturally get along and love each other and thats what truly matters.

[2SpeedTranny]

Women seem to sense when a man is desperate. If you just relax, be yourself. Women like confident men.

This! ^^


My cats are my mates! I do go to Alanon, and ACA 12 step meetings, and only a few people attend, and they are married women, but they do give me hugs. No dating, but better than nothing!

Ooch. Double whammy. Women are usually suspicious of single men with cats. And I can't imagine anyone goes to AA to look for dating material.


@ the OP: I've experimented with dating websites in the past. It taught me a few things. One, everyone lies. Two, there are a lot of damaged goods out there. I met some real crazy chicks. Some people have had good luck with it, but it's probably just better to get out more and be social somewhere... make new friends. It doesn't happen sitting at home on your computer.

[Tanya C]

Don't ever give up hope or stop trying. But you definitely need to change your approach to meeting women. You should emphasize and expose your attractive qualities rather than dwelling on finding an accepting SO. The dating process begins with attracting someone followed by getting to know each other. At some point you will meet someone who really digs you, then perhaps you can find a way of introducing her to this unusual but lovely side to your personality and maybe she will accept.
But don't be needy, be giving.

[erica12b]

when i talk (im or emails) with these girls we talk about every thing from kids to dinner to shoe sales , grand babys and local events , we talk about work and every thing , what get me is they will give me advice on girl stuff and products but meeting me for a drink (tea -pop-lattee) they cant we are good girl friends but the guy cant like dresses , (like im going to stand out some how, gg' friends is my main goal ,dateing would be a great extra im frustrated with them and my self , with all the time i have had the last month i think i will be by myself the rest of my life

i thought if i was truthful right from the start some girl would like that , its ok in privet , but not in public lol i guss its a start lol not going to change the world

[Lisa_Marie]

just 3 words.... never give up

as a cd you must understand not everything is easy in time it will come

[Chickhe]

Its the whole chicken and egg thing. The GGs say they wish they knew...but are they saying they would have stuck around?, probably not, but after they know the guy many decide CDing is just an add-on. I say, it may be better to tell nothing and just be who you are and let the other people discover you little by little.

[Eve_WA]

Initially, when I first started dressing, I would do as many here prescribe. I would let them get to know me as a guy first, and then before we started dating exclusively, tell them about the other half. This worked very well. They would get to know me, my qualities, and values, and that I wasnt strange or weird. At that point it was just another facet of my personality, and mostly accepted. There was only one that could not accept this, and we parted friends.

Now that I am too far along with my transition to pass as an average guy, I decided to do as you, and present as Eve from the onset. This has proven to be a much more difficult path to follow. But not impossible. I am currently dating one lady who accepts me as who I present. And everything is going fairly well. If I could give one piece of advice here, is to not use Facebook as a dating medium, at least exclusively. FB is more of a social networking website, not a dating one. So people that congregate there are more likely to seek friends than lovers. Not to say that it cant or wont happen. Just less likely. I would try a more alternative dating site if there is one available in your local area if you decide to continue with this path.

There was one I did date, but she wanted to push me to be Erica all the time made the man in me feel left out

Personally, I would think that the presenting as a man first, and letting them in on the feminine side at the proper time would be a better path to follow for dating, as you dont state that you are actively transitioning.

Now for the pen pals and shopping buddies side, its better to present as a female first, IMO. So why not do both? Have the FB page for seeking gal pals, and a dating site for the pursuit of a life partner. Sometimes life isnt a one size fits all kind of world. And if youve ever tried a pair of one size pantyhose, you know what I mean!

I wish you the best of luck!
Eve

[Melissa Jill]

This sounds so much like emotional blackmail. And trust me there are many women who are not put off by their male friends crossdressing. Maybe it is just that I have been associated with a complete group of people who don't follow the crowd though.

Melissa this discussion happens many times on this forum and very rarely does it work when your investment in the relationship has arrived at the point where you think she won't go. Yes it would be wonderful if every woman (or man) had the ability to let love rule, the heart over the mind so to speak, but it doesn't happen and when you have a house, home, children, coming out becomes more and more dangerous to the lifestyle you have built. So don't trust that being with someone a long time will make it easy. The pain is often worse the longer you hold out

Again, I was thinking just a few months, just at the point where serious feelings are developing, yet either one can still walk away without too much emotional damage. Im not saying all women would be put off by a man crossdressing, what I meant was a woman would be put off by someone who is trying to "woo" them who also crossdresses. As has been said, women like the confident, manly kind of man, as opposed to a sensitive one and at such an early stage into a relationship crossdressing would very easily be a dealbreaker, as it is very easy to deem it too much hassle for someone you have nothing invested in (emotionally).

[Alice Torn]

Two speed, I must clarify, that I don't go to 12 step meetings, to find dates. Friends, yes, and because i moved 2000 miles to help my 90 yr old difficult dad, and needed a support system. I know i cannot date the women at the meetings. They are all married. There is one young guy who attends, now, too. I know the meetings are NOT for finding dates or mates.

[KristaE]

If you want to be a woman full-time (I take you don't given, your problem with your ex who wanted that), then go for it.

But, if you want to be a "man" who happens to like crossdressing, then be a "man"... let your SO see you as the "man", get to know that you are really, truly and deeply a "man". But NEVER EVER EVER hide your femme side (personality wise). Talk about fashion or whatever you like. Then, slowly acclimate her. I think that will give the best image of what you truly are, if you let it progress naturally.

[sometimes_miss]

I've gotten some good advice on this forum and others; but I can't bring myself to do it. There are some women out there that will accept us; but you're going to have to out yourself publicly in every way you can to have any chance of meeting them. And I can't get up enough courage to do that. On top of which, is that the odds of meeting someone you're compatible with isn't any better than with any other women. Consider online dating; some dating pro's estimate we're each only basically barely compatible with one out of every 16 women. Now, only about 1% of women will even consider dating a crossdresser. You're down to one in 1600 women. Of even having a remote chance. And if you're not 'out', you basically have no chance at all.

[MiamiMarie]

There is nothing wrong with you being a CD, but it's probably not the best foot to lead with.

Per what I have learned from watching the Millionaire Matchmaker (take it for what it's worth :heehee:), when there is something tricky to navigate in determining fundamental coupling capatability, you wait until the 2nd or (better yet) 3rd date - don't use it as the introduction. For example, when a single woman has a biological clock in dying mode, she will not have much luck with a MySpace page begging guys to be her immediate husband/future father of her child. Same rule applies to anyone with an alternative lifestye, an unpopular job, obnoxious mothers, etc. Most people have an unusual dating feature to contend with, but they keep it in the background in the beginning. You need to let the person like you romantically at least a little bit so that they may make a more informed decision.

Do not take a passive approach. Be aggressive. Hunt and fish for the women. I completely agree with Cordgrass. You need to show her how aggressive and manly you can be before you show a fem side. Because unless you plan on permanently transitioning into a woman, your best match will be a gal who will love both your male and your female side. Make your moves with bold confidence. (I always had a crush on Franken-N-Furter).

Remember, by waiting a bit to tell a girl, you are not lying. You are letting a relationship unfold. There is a difference. Now if you wait too long, then you are lying.