What do you say?

[Kaly]

Goodevening all..

Just a bit of a rant really. I was in college today (psychology) and I can't remember exactly what was being discussed but it turned to CDers, TG and Drag Queens. It was alright discussion at first but someone then nicely said that any man that dresses in female cloths is gay and a pervert. What do you say to something like that? It made me really angry. What made it even worse was my lecturer didn't say anything.. Now I am happy to listen to everyones opinions but that was something that was really unacceptable to be said and i would have thought the lecturer would have thought the same!

Rant over...

Hugs Kalyan

[Melissa Jill]

Call them a moron.

Edit:
Sorry, close minded people irritate the hell out of me.

[Marissa]

Hi Kalyan, sorry you had to hear such close minded positions..but it is one's opinion. But I'm surprised that you didnt state whether there was a rebuttle by other students or if the discussion went any further? Topics like this normally draws out other feeds, such as "is the person trying to state that all gays are perverts?????".

Not sure if I would have but at this moment I'm wondering if I would have said "why do you think that?", knowing that all would suspect that I was a crossdresser first or gay.

[Karren H]

I have told people like that, the truth.... I've had this discussion with some Cosmo Radio DJs via Face Book after they made a similar remark and proceeded to educate them.. Since then we have had some good online and discussions and they have discussed it on the air. The more you communicate the truth with people the more they become used to you being as normal as they are... I have made many male and female friends who know and accept me as I am, as a human that dresses a bit differently. Funny but catting with a ghranmother from Indiana about cars or a house wife from Kyt about the steelers or a young woman about makeup or working out.... Take my reality and pushes it out onto others and makes it theirs!!

[Elle1946]

They need to go to advanced psychology where they can learn more about people and their situtations and issues.

[Bethany38]

Tell them plain and simple that they are ignorant to the facts. But then again they probably wouldn't understand.

[Misty G]

On three different occasions I have had the opertunity to help in out reach programs in these psychology classes at the university of Georgia. It was fun and we had a lot of students there asking questions. But didn't have too many sly remarks but you will always have one you just have too look over them and go on with what you have to say.

[Annie D]

Is that your opinion or is it a fact? On what authority can you make such an outrageous statement? I know a CD and she is married and has children.......if and when the person tries to defend his opinion, just make up something about your make believe CD'er based upon what you have read here. Don't deny that some CD'ers are gay but big deal; there are straight people in all walks of life as well.

[Angelofsomekind]

I'd ask if they know anyone who dresses, if not, how can them make that generalization. You can say you knew someone who does, and they are just as 'normal' as anyone else.

[junetv]

what's wrong with being gay? That's what I would've said. That should shut most of them up in our era of political correctness. As far as the pervert aspect. That is subjective. :)

[Paola Lobos]

Hi Kalyan,

How about scheduling a few minutes with the lecturer to explain your concerns to him or her? Maybe the record can be set straight in the next class.

Hugs, Paola

[silhouette]

tell them that your dad or whoever is a cross dresser

that would have shut them up and made them feel pretty stupid

[Lorileah]

...someone then nicely said that any man that dresses in female cloths is gay and a pervert. What do you say to something like that?

You say that they are entitled to their opinion but that they are totally wrong about this. Then you ask them where exactly they got their information (this is an academic situation after all and should thus be run accordingly) then you explain to them that even since the early sexual studies (you can even use Masters and Johnson the icons of such studies) it has been shown that the majority and the overwhelming majority of crossdressers have been in fact heterosexual males who are not in anyway "perverted" (another inflamatory and really not well defined word). Then you calmly sit and watch them turn bright red from anger and embarassment.

You gain so much more power in these situations by acting calm and in control. The lecturer may have in fact been waiting for someone to logically argue the point. I would, in fact, ask that professor (assuming taht the person running the class is indeed at least a PhD and not some poor graduate student who has no experience, to follow through wit hthis discussion. It is after all a psychology class and not a theology or creative writing group

[StacyCD]

Unfortunately there are a lot of unenlightened folks out there and even a comment by the teacher will likely not change this person's opinion. It seems that they already have their mind made up and little is going to change it. Consider former Vice President Dick Cheney whose daughter was a lesbian but because of his political party couldn't openly accept her being gay.

[eluuzion]

There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


What do you say?...Nothing...

Never interrupt an idiot when they are in the process of hanging themselves.

:love:

[Sarah Doepner]

I've had luck in visiting with the teacher in their office sometime after the class and asking them to clarify what was said in class. This lets the instructor know you were listening (yes, it may also result in 'brownie' points) and it can bring the discussion back in a future class with better information with the weight of the instructor behind it. It's particularly effective if you bring some resources supporting your take on things to the meeting.

[Lucy_Bella]

I sum it up to this

Now some Cder's wanna date men, they say they are not Gay because they where born with a female brain..Now in reality( societys opinion) they where born a male to the general public would make them...gay

Now some Cders say they are lesbians.. Taking what was said above with having a female brain and the general publics knowledge of lesbians as ..Yes being gay..

Now we have others here who just have fantacy's of being with a man " but will never re-act to them " Kinda Gay? I guess don't kniow not saying and I will try and get to my point.

We have people here who only see men when dressed as a female ..Bi...I am guessing again no expert..

Then we have those who absolutly stand firm there is not an ounce of attraction to another male even dressed , who are married and are very happy..

I can understand the confusion and they locked jaw of the lecturer could have turened into a heated debate or a simple no would have answered it just as well, clothing isn't a sexual preferance.. I wear mens clothing most of the time does this mean I am Gay because all the gay guys I know only wear clothing for men? Confussed..like everyone else I guess..

[KristaE]

It would be hard not to say something, even if it outted me. I would probably say something like "That would be offensive to gays and crossdressers." And then go off on the copious amounts of sex studies that have been done.

[docrobbysherry]

It's unfortunate that many people believe CDs r all "gay and/or pervs". But, they DO! And, unless you're an experienced speaker, with many facts and references at your fingertips, it's not likely you'd change many minds in your class room!
THAT'S also unfortunate!

Kaly, u REALLY DON'T KNOW why your proff let that remark go. And, u NEVER WILL unless u ask!

It's possible he just DIDN'T WANT TO GO THERE at that moment!? But, I don't know either!

[5150 Girl]

I think the first thing I would have said is, "Obviously you've been watching to much Jerry Springer"

[giuseppina]

How about this:

Can you cite any papers in the professional literature (juried publications that do not allow members of the editorial board to submit papers for publication) that support your position?

Your classmates need to know that if they plan to practise psychology, they cannot pass judgement on their clients. If they do, they cannot help them.

The instructor needs to know that at least one person disagrees with what was said. It's his/her professional obligation to present material that does not disagree with the general thrust of what appears in the professional literature. I doubt that there is much evidence to support your classmate's claim to be found.

[linda allen]

Hi Kalyan,

How about scheduling a few minutes with the lecturer to explain your concerns to him or her? Maybe the record can be set straight in the next class.

Hugs, Paola
There you go, good response. :thumbsup:

[Pythos]

What about the G.D. "professor" or lecturer. Why was that moron that said what he said allowed by the lecturer to say such an ignorant and hate filled statement?

Now what the OP needed to do is raise his hand, and speak up. Or, at the end of the lecture, have a chat with the lecturer.

I hate to come down on the OP, but you let a grand opportunity for some REAL education slip right through your fingers.

[Sarah Michelle]

I went back to university as a middle-aged adult in a part-time program to complete a degree. Some of my classes were with college/university aged young adults. I was regularly surprised at the narrowness of their life experiences and world view. That being said; college is the greatest opportunity in existence to broaden one's viewpoints if your mind is open. It is the place where the unenlightened should be able to speak out without fear of condemnation, and more importantly where the (en)light(en) can be turned on and focused on these utterances.
I am both puzzled and disappointed that the lecturer didn't capitalize on the opportunity for a discussion about transgender and homosexuality, but perhaps they, themselves don't know the facts. This was an opportunity lost for all involved but I can't condemn an 18/19/20 year old for holding an uninformed opinion. I also have to acknowledge that in the fast flow of an open discussion in a lecture hall, it is sometimes difficult to re-direct it, once the topic shifts.

[sometimes_miss]

I've learned that you can't win an argument trying to change someone else's opinion; they will defend their position down to the end, where it simply becomes a matter of beliefs.

[arbon]

Thinking of all the threads I've read like this about the CD or TG or TS issues coming up in psychology classes - I keep wondering how / what the teachers notice each year and with different groups - the differences in bigotry and ignorance from group to group, how has it changed over the years, how many students have spoken up in the classes over the years against mean remarks or outed themselves even, etc...

[Kaly]

Hi Kalyan,

How about scheduling a few minutes with the lecturer to explain your concerns to him or her? Maybe the record can be set straight in the next class.

Hugs, Paola

Hey thank you for that bit of advice. Next time I see my lecturer I am going to speak to her about this and how it offend me greatly and hopefully she will bring the topic up again.

I know I should have said something but the remark was so out of the blue I honestly did not know what to say. I don't think I would ever be able to change their views on this subject but I hope I can at least get them to keep their snide comments and remarks to themselves.

I also know a gay person in the class so I am going to speak to them about the matter as well. So hopefully they will come and speak to the lecturer with me.

Hugs Kalyan

[Sarah Doepner]

Good for you Kalyan. It's always a good feeling later when you attempt to address a wrong like that. Even if it's not to your satisfaction, you have no regrets about your part in it.

[JulieC]

They need to go to advanced psychology where they can learn more about people and their situtations and issues.

Advanced psychology? More like remedial psychology for the intelligence impaired.

There's ignorance, born of lack of exposure to a topic. It is spoken of by the ignorant in the form of questions, curiosity, and willingness to consider other ways of thinking.

Then there's ignorance is hatred. It is spoken by the close minded, who would sooner spit at something different than consider there might be other people in the world who just aren't like them. Throughout history they've been found in different forms; some wearing bed sheets with eye holes poked in them, some bearing clubs and evil intent rife enough to chain a dying person to a fence, and many others with all sorts of ugliness.

I welcome and cherish the former. The latter, I'll make an effort to educate, but beyond that my lack of acceptance of their idiocy will be known.

[Briana90802]

Im come across this problem myself. I've found that people are comfortable lumping others into categories. To them the world is black or white, right or wrong. It's like when people catagorize pedophilia with child molesters and rapist. When the two are very different. I tend to just ignore the dumb ones and tread lightly. It's so sad that people can't open thier minds to the many different possibilities that are the human condition. For the most part I think that they feel comfortable knowing that if they aren't in a category that they don't understand then they are safe.

[Stephanie Anne]

You say with a straight face and all the determination you can muster:

"It takes one to know one".

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Hmmm, I think that maybe the lecturer was allowing a discussion to take place. The lecturer remained neutral? One has to listen to all opinions in order to formulate their own opinion. The hardest thing is that in a discussion is to refrain from pushing one point of view and sit back and analyse what is being said. I think the idea of the discussion if it was in a tutorial or group was to allow thoughts to be massed and promote more general thinking allowing all to see others points of view. It is very hard to hold back when one feels victimised but if ones knowledge on the subject matter is to grow wisely, one must see what all sides in the discussion so that one can formulate the needed response. Then the discussion can continue and in so doing all learn. Freedom of speech is so precious for the growth of knowledge.

[Yolanda_Voils]

Several years ago, I was a bigoted and ignorant person who may have said such a thing also.

Often times people speak first, then engage their brain, sounds like the case here.

Other times people speak what they think is "most popular" this is the gang mentality,
I associate it with the "Pack Mentality" (Canine)
When there are more of "them" and less of "insert vulnerable verb here" you see this type behavior.

This mentality is often seen in major cities, regardless of color, creed, religion etc etc, you will find that the "Pack" will verbally or physically assault the "outsider"

My $0.02 worth
Yolanda

[Jennifer Freeman]

Never in my life, and I'm old, have I met this unique person who is 'normal'!
Jennifer Freeman

[NicoleScott]

You could say: "You're enitled to your own opinions but not your own facts."
There are people who think that crossdressing is a perversion. That could be his opinion, which he is entitled to.
Most people pretty well understand what "gay" means, so he is utterly incorrect by stating that crossdressers are gay. They may be, but may not be. They have no direct relation to one another.
He mixed his opinion with an incorrect "fact". And should have been challenged on it.
I'm going to let the lecturer off the hook on this one. I assume that the lecturer's role was to moderate the discussion (don't let everyone talk at the same time), not to be the one to challenge the statement. However, the lecturer could have asked for comments about that statement, to spur thought and discussion.

[Christy_M]

You can also just make it about the the student making two correlations from one unrelated topic and how their mind works to draw those conclusions. Regardless of topic, this person twisted something that brought out some fear and triggered a response that went to an extreme behavior..."how did that make you feel" type of a scenario.

Also, the Proff probably didn't want to out himself to the class by bringing up facts that would make others believe he was "one of us."

[Chickhe]

You stand up and shout, my girlfriend dressed me up as a woman on halloween once, does that make me gay?

[Kaly]

You stand up and shout, my girlfriend dressed me up as a woman on halloween once, does that make me gay?

That's a perfect thing to say. So many guys do dress up at Halloween I would love to hear their response to this. Thank you I shall ask them next psychology lecture

Hugs Kalyan

[NathalieX66]

Those kinds of people are hard to reason with. You can't convince someone to like sushi especially if they hate seafood. Sometimes they look for moral justifications for their phobias. I normally say gays don't hurt anyone, I don't care what they do, most gays I know are decent people like everyone else. Then I leave it at that.

I recently posted a pic of me on my guy fb page mentioning that my dad says "son I don't care if you're gay, just don't wear a dress"...only problem is I'm straight. This was actually my attempt to teach my firends that homosexuality & gender expression are not the same thing. I have not lost any friends yet, and I have recieved nothing but compliments so far. I'm sure there was someone out there that may have been a bit repulsed by the fact that I am a crossdresser, but I am willing to accept that.

[dana8656]

Sounds like somebody in denial, uncomfortable in the situation, and trying to disassociate themselves from the subject matter for fear of being outed...