A hater? Really???

[SuzanneBender]

I read on many of the threads in the Forum how ladies, especially those in the throws of transistion, hate everything, or most everything, about their maleness.

Is this really true? I ask this because cis-gendered women and the wonderful men in the forum above us fight so hard for many of the experiences that our male priviledge provided us. We get the blessing of having experienced those moments. Maybe its due to years of being brainwashed while living in the world as a man that makes me such a naive eternal optimist, but I look at those moments as gifts I would have never experienced had I been born a woman.

I also understand that we were given those blessings at the cost of many of the privledges of being female. However, don't you think if you had been born female you wouldn't longingly look at some of those male experiences you have had much like those of us look longingly at the female experiences we have missed out on?

I am not trying to change minds. I am just sharing thoughts of the heart over a cup of tea. :hugs:What are your thoughts on this?

[Areyan]

thanks for raising this question. as a FTM i do long for the experiences you have had in male life that i will NEVER know so i think it is sad to see MTF's hating on their natal status. i don't hate everything i have been through in female life either - indeed i have had experiences that all of the trans and cd ladies here would dream of having. but i have also lived the hell of being female that many MTFs would not consider in their dreams of being a natal female. i dun care what any MTF claims, feeling like you missed out on something by not bleeding between your legs every month is unbelievably naive and sheer ignorant fodder.

my cramps throughout this awful time every single month are harsh enough to rival labour pains. i'm not kidding and i'm not the only natal female who is doubled over in pain by this little "miracle" that cannot be stopped every month. if any of you have wives or have witnessed the births of your children you can only but imagine how painful that is. it's just a fact of life for natal females.

it's just one silly example but i beg of any MTF to cope with that pain monthly and then say they wish it upon themselves. they truly would not want this, no matter how much they wish to have all the other experiences that go along with it. just as i'm sure there must be some painful experiences only natal males would know that they wouldn't wish on females. although i'm wracking my brains to try to come up with stuff that would (physically) suck about being male, i just can't. an orgasm EVERY time i made love... priceless. yes, there are pluses to being male that i will never know either, thanks to inadequate transitional services for FTMs.

[Rianna Humble]

I don't think that I hated my "maleness", rather I hated having to live a lie. I never did fit in with stereotypical men's interests, with the result that many male acquaintances found it hard to relate to me on anything more than a fairly superficial level. At the same time, I had difficulty relating to women on a level that seemed normal to them since I was unable to see myself as a "boy" friend.

Those girls who did get to know me a little better tended to tell me that I was like a big sister to them, but still had difficulty understanding our friendship.

Shortly before accepting who I am, I expressed to one of my extremely few close friends that I thought there were not more than two or three people who liked me for myself rather than for what I coudl do for them. Since coming out, I have discovered that this is not actually true but I was unable to perceive it whilst I was living a lie.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Suzanne, I think most of us use the word "hate" figuratively. I myslef never associated with boys as a child or men as an adult. I had nothing in common with them. All the things I enjoyed were much more aligned with girls/women.

Even my body with few exceptions looks feminine. It are those physical exceptions that I wish I did not have.

As far a my professional life, I don't know anything I have done that women have also not done. So benefits of being male have no merit in defining my life.

[tanyalynn51]

I agree with most that I dont like being a biological male. I dont hate it, but I do sometimes dream of what it would have been like to grow up a gg. Ill never have a baby, but that seems to be the only limitation on what I can do that I know of, or have heard of.

[Jorja]

For me it wasn't so much hating my maleness as it was needing to be who I am. I have found no male privilege that I miss other than not being taken seriously when I have suggestions or comments in a business meeting. Then I simply wait for my chance to say, I told you so :) but then being the professional I am, I would not do that...... much.

There are many female privileges I wish I had been born into but I wasn't and there is not much I can do about that, so why worry about it? I just move on and try to be the best female I can be for myself.

[Pythos]

I just don't like being limited in how I can dress, look, or act, based on my genitalia. If there is anything I "hate" about being male, is being associated with some of the utter fools out there that go around being bullies. But women are guilty of that as well.

[CharleneT]

I have not really "hated" maleness or my body parts. "It" and "they" have been very unwanted, but then again, it was also "me". I've been driven to near suicide by it, but I do not hate the experience. That may not make sense... I hate only that I was tricked somehow as I developed and ended up where I should not be (at least that is what my brain and soul feel). Due to the cards dealt, I lived my life as I had to do so. Sure there was a lot of unwanted adaptation, but especially when I was young and did not see any possible future solution for my GID, I just figured it was better to be what I could. Honestly, when I came to learn that there was a solution, I was joyful. It took a very long time before I have been able to "do", but I have just kept that hope as what got me thru to today. It is also true that I nearly didn't make it, but I did.

[meri]

Suzanne,
Good question, I have noticed this within myself too. However, I believe it's a backlash brought on by decades of repression of my feminine self. I also believe that now I have found my feminine self, I am like a kid in a candy store and can't tolerate anything that doesn't immediately translate to feminine. Realizing this helps restore my balance and bring me back to center. When I really think about it, I embrace my masculine side and my new-found feminine side. There are clear advantages to each and I do now find myself switching "styles" in midstream.

For instance, I attended a tradeshow recently and was selling our product. My initial approach to each potential buyer was clearly from the feminine, I was giving them all the touchy, feely stuff about our product. Trying to involve them emotionally with the product. This approach really worked well with the women buyers, however, the men didn't want to hear all that crap, they wanted the facts man, just the facts. Tell me how this is going to help "me". Well, I kicked into masculine, "left brain mode" and served it up.

It's very useful having this range of approaches when dealing with people on a one-to-one basis. So, I embrace my masculine side and my feminine side and consciously use their "gifts" as the situation demands.

[Dawn D.]

Suzanne,

Hate is a word I avoid using as much as possible. I have never really hated; anything or anyone. Dislike? Now I could go on and on about what I disliked of my earlier male life. But, I won't.

Well, okay. Maybe just a little.

I feel I now understand why I had such an anger and frustration toward certain things. Simple things. Like installing a set of headers on an engine and not being able to make a bolt fit a hole in the process, not understanding how a company could market something like this saying it fits yet, it won't. Things like, being out with the hunting party and all the other "guys" standing around talking crap about their "old ladies" and how they were gettin' some on the side. If we call these things privilege, I'll pass. I remember thinking to myself at times like this, "what is it that I dislike so much about this" and, "why is it I am supposed to, and expected to like this crap?" Ultimately, later life would provide me the answer to those questions.

Were there good things that I benefited from in being male for most of my life? Some might perceive so, and some may claim as much. Yet, I think I can honestly say, not so much! My father gave my sister and I both, equal opportunities. Sometimes, I actually felt he gave her a slight advantage. Fitting in was always a problem for me. I think this is a recurrent theme with a lot of us, too.

As Rianna said,


I thought there were not more than two or three people who liked me for myself rather than for what I coudl do for them. Since coming out, I have discovered that this is not actually true but I was unable to perceive it whilst I was living a lie.

This is very close to being the same sentiment I could express. I simply did not enjoy the "male bonding" thing that males typically do. When my wife was involved in Sorority years ago, I was invited to her/their events as most husbands were. The difference was I didn't like, want or need to hang out with the other husbands. My wife several times asked why, as did her Sorority sisters. I couldn't then give an accurate or completely honest answer. The "guys" took my standoff-ishness as some kind of superiority thing. Which it wasn't. I just didn't fit their world and I disliked even more trying to fit into it.

And there were many other instances which opportunity afforded was opportunity avoided. My wife thought I suffered from a bit of an inferiority complex. Partially true. Aren't most women seen as inferior to men?

What I have done (that I can determine as success) in my life has been and is done based solely from my skills as a human being. I resent the implication that privilege has entered into any part of it. I am not rich, but, I am not poor either. I don't even consider myself middle class (whatever that is). I simply survive and live my life.

On speculation, I am reasonably certain I could have gotten further in my life if I had been able to be myself at an earlier age. Though, this can be a tricky thought to explore. Primarily, that would mean I would likely not have had the most important person as a part of my life. My wife. So, if there is any privilege to be found within my life, having her would likely qualify as such. And I really don't like playing the would'a, could'a, should'a.

I like to look at life now as being 'determined', rather than what privilege is afforded. I find it much easier for example, to get involved in things publicly. Being able to be a real person accords me more opportunity now than when I was hiding in that facade of an identity earlier in my life. And, I plan to make the most of it that I can.


Dawn

[Stephanie Anne]

I would prefer to have been born as I should have but hate is too strong a word. I would say more unwanted or indifferent. I'm debating on an orchdectomy before srs for the fact I am not wanting srs for years to come and I am not wanting ot have to force feed myself antiandrogens to counter testosterone production. I will have srs for a corrective action as it is necessary for me in a personal and spiritual way.

I do not hate my male face as it is not an issue and gives me a unique appearance. I don't hate my height as it is part of me and has been since I was about 13.

I'm not content with my weight and explained why in another thread. I still have love handles and they annoy me more than distress me.

I do dislike having to tuck something that is not large enough to stay tucked and would prefer to not do that anymore. That would be about the sum of what I don't like about my genitalia.

[Karen564]

Sorry, but I hated every minute of it for as long as I can remember...but guess I'm the odd one here....
The only thing I want is a males pay..because as a woman, you will not get equal pay when you get a new job...so I'm an advocate for equal pay....and that is not just because I'm living my life as a woman, I've pushed for this over 30 years ago..among other equal rights for women..

[Sally24]

I also understand that we were given those blessings at the cost of many of the privledges of being female. However, don't you think if you had been born female you wouldn't longingly look at some of those male experiences you have had much like those of us look longingly at the female experiences we have missed out on?


I couldn't agree more! I think the ole grass is greener quote applies to this. We all amplify the best and minimize the worst of what we were not able to experience. I don't personally hate my maleness but all the "character building" I went thru as a young man definitely has left me with some bitterness toward males in general.


i dun care what any MTF claims, feeling like you missed out on something by not bleeding between your legs every month is unbelievably naive and sheer ignorant fodder. if any of you have wives or have witnessed the births of your children you can only but imagine how painful that is. it's just a fact of life for natal females. it's just one silly example but i beg of any MTF to cope with that pain monthly and then say they wish it upon themselves. .

I think we are a product of all the experiences we have during our lives. Wishing for the complete package of experiences is at least more realistic than just taking the best of the female life and then wanting the benefits of the male life too. I have always wished I could have experienced my childrens birth from the other side, regardless of what pain comes along with that.



an orgasm EVERY time i made love... priceless.

Now who's being naive?:devil:

The stress to perform and be responsible for both partners orgasms can sometimes take all the fun, and the ability to perform, right out of there. I think everyone would benefit from being able to experience, even once, the sensations that the other sex get from this.

[renee k]

For me it wasn't so much hating my maleness as it was needing to be who I am. I have found no male privilege that I miss other than not being taken seriously when I have suggestions or comments in a business meeting. Then I simply wait for my chance to say, I told you so :) but then being the professional I am, I would not do that...... much.

There are many female privileges I wish I had been born into but I wasn't and there is not much I can do about that, so why worry about it? I just move on and try to be the best female I can be for myself.

Jorja, is spot on with her observation and comments. That's the way I look at things. I'm proud of what I've accomplish as a male in my life. Now it's time to be the person that I believe in my heart I am. I'll always be the person that I am. It's just that my body will finally match my sole.

Renee

[Aprilrain]

I'm still waiting for my membership card to the "male privilege club". What's that? It's been revoked on account of switching teams? Damn! Just when I finally ordered my smoking jacket, vintage martini glasses and Cuban cigars.

Perhaps being a male does feel like a privilege to cisgenderd men, it's not like anyone here would know. All of us F2M & M2F have had the distinct "privilege" of being born transgender. Even though we all lived some portion of our lives as our natal sex most of knew from a young age something was wrong/different even if we didn't have the vocabulary for it. Knowing you are different and not feeling like you can tell anybody is enough to cause anyone to hate the thing that makes them feel as though they don't fit, even if that thing has no malicious intent.

I don't hate my current situation but that would be a convenient one word description for the very complex range of emotions, feelings and experiences that I find myself in. In other words transition kinda sucks, it's a chaotic roller coaster ride. I'm quite done with life as a male and whatever privilege real or imagined that comes with it and I want to get on with living life in my new role as a female BUT I'm not physically ready. I never hated my male parts and still don't but they bother me now more than ever probably because I'm not trying to hold on to being the man I never was plus I get tired of tucking

[JackieInPA]

For me hate is really tooo weak of a word for what i feel. I have spent every day of my life since i knew there was a difference between boys and girls with the pain and stress of wanting that that i can never have...not saying that it is different than any of you have experienced. I am not saying that i DESIRE to have periods, but if having them is the price to be a woman and end the NEVER ENDING pain i go through then yes i'll take them, and call it a fair trade.

[Teri Jean]

Suzanne you are so right and the feeling of being a male has been so ingrained you will never completely discard it. It is what makes us who we are and the things we loved to do will always be there. For me it is the wild outdoors in the seat of a canoe or woodworking/carving have been and are activities that as a male were things I enjoyed. Although these are typical male activities they are also enjoyed by women. As I have taught my daughters, be yourself and enjoy the things that make you happy. There are much more things to deal with without creating more.

[JenniferZ2009]

In the orgasm area I was almost never able to have an orgasm with a partner. I can count on one hand the number of orgasms I have had with partner. This covers 6 years in the navy and being pretty much a **** for 2 years of it.

I do hate the male character building episodes and all they have done is make me jaded bitch sometimes. Oh, and I really hated having to hand out with guys and listen to them talk about sports and other stupid stuff. I really hated when someone would look at me and ask what the score for last nights game was? I was like what and I know because?

I hated living as a man and I hate living with the left over crap such as a receding hairline and other stuff.

Also, eveen though I will never be able to have a period or have a baby I have felt the type of pain that comes with it. It is something that even when it is gone you do somehow miss I think. For 3 years my kidney was broke adn woudl back up with urine and my family did not believe me so they sent me to boarding school. everyday for 3 weeks out of every month for 3 years I had this paint that the doctors later could only compare to childbirth. I doubled over, could not sleep would poke my side with things to try to make the pain go away, i hated my body. I am not saying that I am equal because of that but I have gone though that kind of pain. It is not fun, it really really really sucks, and I don't know why anyone would want it but those periods of intense pain I almost miss sometimes. They did start right when I was going through puberty so they may just be ingrained in me now.

Well sorry for going off on that I had a discussion earlier with a friend about that.

[NiCo]

Areyan, I think it is a bit harsh to say they would not like to have periods; the thing is…we hate it because it is not natural to us, it is something that comes along with being female and therefore it is something they feel they should have. And rightly so!

Having a period sends our “dysphoria” off like a rocket but to a MtF, although it is horrific and disgusting, would feel right for them. I cannot say in a truthful manner that they would hate it, cause I think for the most it would be a wrong statement to make.

Hey, I can’t change your opinion ;) and do not intend to! But I just thought I would add this bit in so that people don’t think every FtM thinks that way about MtFs and their desires.

I cannot say I had much “female privilege” as I didn’t spend a long time living as a female. I was boyish from day one, only started to dress feminine at around 15 so people would not “click on”, then came out at 16, and have been living the male life since. Aye I have not had the biological male stuff but I have not really had biological female stuff either. It was induced since my body failed to have a natural puberty. And aye, I hated the female body but surgery has lessened my resentment. I may never have a working penis [and may fall apart over this when I am feeling depressed, angry and feeling cheated by life] but when I am thinking straight I just accept that this is one of the f*ck-ups of being what I am and I just have to climb that hurdle slowly and hope that some crazy scientist comes along and helps me up.

I don’t think MtFs should feel guilty or anything about living previously as a male. I don’t know how many times I have had a MtF hate on me for having a slight female past and it made me, for a long time, hate MtFs, not for having a male past but for being so ignorant. However, I have risen above the idiots [since not all MtFs feel this way about us] and the way I see it is that we are all wishing we were something/ someone else and rather than hate people for that, why not just accept that they did not chose to be this way, same as you didn’t. Why not just fight your own battles rather than causing them with others who were just as unfortunate as you were. It would be selfish to hate/ dislike someone for something they did not ask for and/ or cannot change. Whoever thinks this way is a waste of space and life and they need to grow up [like I did] and get a grip.