Starting young?

[susan2010]

In today's NY Times there is a review of a book titled "Cinderella Ate My Daughter". The review refers to some studies showing that children up to about the age of 7 may believe that clothes, play behavior, etc can actually determine gender, not just reflect it.
That made me think that when I dressed in my sister's petticoat when I was 5 (and I don't remember why I did it) did that make me think I was at least partly female, and is that why I continue to dress?

[Alberta_Pat]

Personally, I think that this is BoguS.

At the age of 5, most kids don't really differentiate. We are still experimenting with our lives, and trying things out.

Clothing choices at that time are more that of the parent, and when a "child" tries something different, it is more checking out the "forbidden" than deciding what "sex" we are.

[Marcia Blue]

Sounds way to simple IMHO. I will admit that I was attracted to feminine things before age 7. I do not think this what made me transgendered, I believe I was born this way.

I have strong male side also. My male traits, are as strong or stronger, than my female traits. I really enjoy being in the company of both genders and doing activities that are considered gender specific.

My early years were spent in several locales and around children of many backgrounds and cultures. I can not say I remember playing dolls, dress up, or tea party. I remember forts, cowboys and Indians, GI Joe/Army, and Superman. I have always had an interest in cooking and sewing, not that my skills in either are very good. My feminine side was hidden very deep before puberty.

Others my have different thoughts, but I will stick with being born the way I am.

[CherryZips]

If it was this simple we would know by now. So no I don't think this is the case.

[sissystephanie]

I wore, secretly, my sisters panties somewhere between the age of 6 or 7! But that certainly did not make me a girl! Yes, I did play with dolls when my sister did not have anybody to play with! But she also played cowboys and Indians with me! So I think that study is not at all correct!

[Karren H]

I started at 7.... and I think it more was my mothers continuously telling me I was supposed to have been a girl... Then when my sister was born I started exploring my mothers closet. Coincidence?

[Christy_M]

My mom put me in my sisters dress when I was four. I did my first "dress in my sister's clothes" when I was eight. I knew it felt good to wear them but did not understand gender or my own identity issues.

[Michelle 51]

I always knew that I was a boy and couldn't do the same things a girl could because thats what I was told.As far as gender well I'm still not 100% sure.I'd have to have srs to answer that one.

[SusanQ]

I've been putting on panties, nylons, girdles, slips, etc. since I was 5. Did it the entire time I was in elementary school. We were sort of naiive then...I didn't really know that girls had different parts than boys...just figured they didn't have a opening in their undies because they were told that nice girls sit down when going to the bathroom.

[erickka]

I started when I was 6. I think that if the answers (as to why we are who and what we are) were as simple as all of those geniuses out there say it is, The world would fully know and understand us.

[sissybecky]

I was about 6 or 7 and I loved the dress my cousin had to wear for a wedding she was the flowergirl and she had a hiss fit about wearing it. I loved the dress and wanted the attention she got with it too but I could not say anything. I had my forts too GIJoes Transformers Star Wars all the good stuff. I did in secret want to wear dresses and skirts and be pretty but still play with the boy toys. I did later on want a doll when Rainbow Brite came out. I asked for one and was scolded harshly about the rule boys don't play with dolls.

[kimdl93]

I first tried on one of my older sister's slips when I was 5 or 6. But I don't think that trying on the slip influence my developing gender identification. Rather, I think that my emerging gender identification led me to be attracted to my sisters clothing. I can vaguely remember having vivid dreams about women in stockings, panties, and bras....just swirling images....long before I'd ever tried anything on.

[Syndi]

I was 11 the first time I ever tried on anything feminine. Be fore that I have no recollection of any thoughts of wanting to try it.

[Cassandra Lynn]

Hmmm, the chicken or the egg? Gee, now there's something new.
So what led to the wanting to wear the clothes or play tea party to begin with? Let's see now, the little boy tripped and accidently fell into his sister's clothes and that determined his gender leanings? Little Johny gets bribed by his sister to sit and play tea party and that was all it took?

Cassie

[Fab Karen]

Children of that age may believe a lot of things because they have a simplified view of reality.
To expand on MsMJ's comment, something some gay people have said: "I spent my whole life being raised by heterosexuals & it didn't influence me."

[LilSissyStevie]

This is exactly what I was writing about in another thread today. When I was 5, I thought the difference between girls and boys were things like clothing, hair length, the games they played, and etc. It didn't occur to me that genitalia was the determining factor. I just thought I got a raw deal when I was assigned to be a boy since I didn't want to act like one. It seemed perfectly logical to me that if I wore a dress and played with dolls then I should be a girl for all practical purposes. It was a big disapointment to find out that it didn't really work that way.

[busker]

Personally, I think that this is BoguS.

At the age of 5, most kids don't really differentiate. We are still experimenting with our lives, and trying things out.

Clothing choices at that time are more that of the parent, and when a "child" tries something different, it is more checking out the "forbidden" than deciding what "sex" we are.

Many years ago, there was a British program, the premise of which was that "give me a child of seven, and I will give you the adult". The study went on for many seven-year segments, some kids remained to be interviewed as adults, one was a suicide, and I think several decided not to pursue the follow-ups for person reasons. There were young boys as well as girls in the study.
In each segment, the follow-up would reiterate the basic facts of each child, and what the researcher purposed would be that child at 14, 21, 28 etc.
What was clearly evident is that yes, by seven, children are largely formed and are "miniatures" of what their adult selves will be. Grand successes, dismal failures, and the person doing the study was spot on.
It may be available on dvd and I highly recommend watching it.

It is easy to discount someone"s study--especially if you have no real background for making such a pronouncement, and you are certainly welcome to believe what you wish, but often common beliefs fly in the face of reality. Someone on this forum has a great little slogan "don't believe everything you think" and I think that is sage advice.
You may think --and that is the operative word here- that the Cinderella study is bogus, but it would be nice to see your evidence to the contrary.
I mean no offense in my reply, so please don't take any. Your answer is the same kind of answer that we all hate when it comes to explaining our "particular interests" and we rail against such people who would say that our own explanations for being a cd is bogus.:2c:

[Frédérique]

The review refers to some studies showing that children up to about the age of 7 may believe that clothes, play behavior, etc can actually determine gender, not just reflect it.
That made me think that when I dressed in my sister's petticoat when I was 5 (and I don't remember why I did it) did that make me think I was at least partly female, and is that why I continue to dress?

I don’t think dressing up could possibly determine gender on its own, but I think it can be seen, in many cases, as the catalyst for personal discovery. I mean, what would bring you to try on this petticoat you mentioned? Surely you were (and still are) predisposed to beautiful (or tactile) things, so you tried it on out of curiosity. Are you partially female? Of course – we all are, but many never act on these urges that spring from a more integrated SELF yearning for expression…

I would see such innocent dress-up as a form of release, letting human desires call the shots, and not listening to, or not being aware of, prejudicial boundaries. At this point in my life I see that there is no separate “female “ or “male,” just a gender-incorporated recluse that rarely gets out of his or her own house. It’s sad, but that’s how it is, and that’s why crossdressing is a largely clandestine undertaking for many of us. If dressing determined gender, I would be female, and I’m not. Frankly, I enjoy being betwixt and between, neither here nor there – it works for me…

Why you may continue to dress has to do with personal choice -- I mean, why wouldn't you continue to do something that feels good? Some never discover this pleasure, but you did...

[Mary Morgan]

In my own case, I do not know what kinds of messages I got from my parents or those around me. Being the first born and apparently male I doubt that I was confused by anyone treating me like a girl, but I knew by age 5 that I wanted to be a girl. I have watched with particular interest in the the raising of my three year old grandaughter and all I can tell you is that she was and is bombarded with "sweet little girl" and "cute little girl" to the point that she has already told me that boys are not nice, and they can't play with her. My only point is that she knows the difference if not the real differences.

[Sophie_C]

In today's NY Times there is a review of a book titled "Cinderella Ate My Daughter". The review refers to some studies showing that children up to about the age of 7 may believe that clothes, play behavior, etc can actually determine gender, not just reflect it.
That made me think that when I dressed in my sister's petticoat when I was 5 (and I don't remember why I did it) did that make me think I was at least partly female, and is that why I continue to dress?

Garbage. I wasn't "dressed" at all, didn't have any feminine things to play with and I acted the same way regardless. Who the hell wrote this book? This has been essentially disproven COUNTLESS time by now. I'm already irate it's been reviewed by the NY Times...

[CaitlynRenee]

A very bogus 'study' if you do or do not ask me.

There are more reasons/motivations for our dressing than there are stars in the night sky. Who knows? I don't think that all the so called experts in the world could give a definitive 'reason' to why we do what we do. I do believe that we are blessed with an exceptional gift of having both the masculine and feminine wrapped up inside us. That we have found each other and have this forum to express ourselves on is just an added plus.

For those of us who have actually met another forum member (and I haven't yet), all I can say is WOW!

That being said, I wonder how many of us live here in San Antonio.

[susan2010]

Frederique,
Your comments are always so thoughtful and interesting. The study mentioned in the book review says that children BELIEVE that clothing, etc can determine gender, not that is does determine gender. I still have no idea what made me put on that petticoat for the first time. When I think back to it I think the first time I remember was not the first time I did it. I only know that I've wanted to wear some women's clothing (especially slips) all my life. And I still like petticoats.

[rhonda]

I don't know but if NY York Times thinks that's how it is you bet they are wrong

[Jessica86]

No way. I was forced to wear girls clothes when I was a kid because I was almost always babysitted by my sister, who wanted a little sister. All my childhood life I was treated like a sister. I know I am a genetic male. I will stay that way. I just like to dress. Ahhhh.....media gets me sometimes....

[Jennifer in CO]

interesting thoughts and comments...may I add my 2 cents? I was a very sickly child. As such, I was brought up in a very controlled environment (meaning very little activity, rarely outside, etc). At an early age, I would on occasion be placed in my older sisters things (usually shorts or pants, tops and sleepwear) usually due to a lack of my own being available or the wash not being done, etc. So part of it (dressing/behavior) was/is acceptance...it was just "normal" to do so. To me, children of that age are at the point in their life that everything is based on approval/acceptance/support or disapproval/rejection of an action/activity/deed/etc. With approval, that becomes acceptable behavior to continue with the support/approval of parents/guardian/etc. Did that make me a crossdresser?...I doubt it...I have very few memories of that time but yes I do remember a time or two when I wore my sisters things. Fast forward to when I was 10 and spent 3 weeks with my Aunt and wore my cousins clothes (girls) that whole time due to my clothes not being left when I was dropped off there. Did that make me a crossdresser?...probably not but it probably solidified the "fun" and acceptance I got from doing it since from that time forward I always asked for girls clothes and later as I reached my teen years got them.

As was stated above, at such an early age the 'tactual' environment is paramount. It just feels good (to the touch/smell/etc). I DO remember when I was 5 or 6 what I wore because it was so soft. I don't really remember anything before that. Show me a picture and I can remember but usually not without visual stimulation of the event. I 'remember' because I see the photo from the event. So to say a child's disposition is set at that early an age, I feel its because they are "shown" where earlier events just happen to coincide with life....

Jenn

[kimdl93]

I think this interpretation is pretty much the reverse of the one's drawn by Peggy Orenstien in her book "Cinderalla Ate My Daughter". The point was not that dressing in girly things influenced gender identification at this age, but rather that its was at this age when kids started picking clothes that matched their internal gender identification. The power of that moment is that companies, like Disney realized the marketing power of selling pretty, pink Princess attire to young girls, girls who wanted to emphasize their femaleness by dressing in ultrafeminine costume. My guess is that young boys start thinking about dressing like soldiers, firemen and cowboys about the same time.

The relevance here is that some of us, myself included, made a different choice. Though born male, at least a part of us wanted to dress like a girl, because deep down, that's how we felt about ourselves.

[busker]

all the nay sayers read the entire review
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/books/review/Paul-t.html?_r=1
The limited quote in the OP doesn't cover the jist of the book but is only part of a review quote.
The writer (and mother of a little girl) has obviously done her homework....
quote from review
“I had read stacks of books devoted to girls’ adolescence,” she writes, “but where was I to turn to under*stand the new culture of little girls, from toddler to ‘tween,’ to help decipher the potential impact — if any — of the images and ideas they were absorbing about who they should be, what they should buy, what made them girls?” unquote.
It is a 244 page book, so don't make a judgement based on 50 words.
The problem is, that too many people dislike intelligent argument and will call anything that might make sense "bogus". It is the same with our current economic crisis--we've been warned for years but sadly all the authors names have been, oddly enough, Cassandra. Get it?
my 2 cents worth

[WillowWriter]

I started when I was 10 years old, because of a friend of mine thought I'd look cute as a girl. She was right. Ever since it stuck, but I always like the way the clothes felt before I even wore any. Mom had soft clothes. It doesn't make me a girl, people are just being plain stupid. It's something some people just do. I love crossdressing, it's so much fun and parents shouldn't stop their kids if the like it so much.

[Marge]

I started around the age of 8 started dressing in moms stuff then when i had the chance to be home alone i got more into it then theres the rush of getting back into boy clothes before they came in the door.

[Alice1]

I think this is wrong i started at the big 13 when i started to have feelings inside my body to cd and exploring my sexuality which i am straight CDer but before that i was a regular average boy

[vivian fair]

In my case I was forced to wear a pair of my sisters pink polished cotton panties. I hated it,and I was only 5 at the time. But after hideing behind the barn nearly all day by my self I found I was beginning to enjoy the sensations the panties were evolking. Not long until I was wearing them on my own. When discovered that I was doing so I was quickly chastized and told not to do so again. OK WHEN SHE FORCED IT THE VERY FIRST TIME ,DONE ON MY OWN A SIN AND A DAMMABLE CRIME! So I at a very young age knew to keep it a secret,that I enjoyed the sensations so much I wasn't quitting! vivian fair

[Joy3]

Wow, this thread really got me thinking about my 1st experience with girls clothing. I was friends with a neighbor girl and we were about 5 or 6 yrs old. Cathy[her name] did not have any girl friends where we lived so we played together a lot. Cathys aunt lived next door to her and we sometimes played at her house. One day Cathy asked if I would be her "girlfriend' and I said sure. She said it would be great if I dressed like a girl so we really could pretend and again I said fine. She proceeded to dress me in some of her clothing and I found that I liked it a lot. We played typical girls games with dolls, tea sets, etc. Cathey would constantly tell me how pretty I was and I loved her telling me that. We played these games nearly every day for a summer. She would even put some make-up on me as our play progressed. I truly began thinking of myself as a girl more than a guy that summer.

We started school that Fall and our play really stopped as a result. My enjoyment in dressing did not stop and I began dressing in my mothers clothing when alone at home including lipstick as I loved the feeling it gave me. This enjoyment has never left me for very long to this day.

I certainly do not know if that experience caused me to become a CD but I suspect it certainly was a contributing factor.