The Continuing Saga of Jamie's Ballet Lessons

[JamieG]

[Note jump to the end of the thread for more recent reports]

Those of you who have been reading for a while probably remember that I started taking ballet classes last year. For those who are new or don't remember, these are classes held for adults (ages range from 18 to 60) and I take the classes in male mode (which means I still get to wear tights, they're just black and very thick, not pink).

After a near two month hiatus, I began my second year of ballet training last night. Once again, I am the only male-bodied person in the class, but nobody makes a big deal out of it. The class started off well; a number of times the teacher said "nice work" to me and one of the other students said, "You're doing a really good job. You've improved so much over when you first started."

At one point I was singled out to demonstrate a position. Unfortunately, it was because I was doing something wrong (for those with some ballet know-how, my retire had my raised foot resting flat against my other leg, instead of with the heel pointing out). Our teacher gave us a tip on how to correct it and asked me to try it that way. I did, and she remarked, "Beautiful." She also told the class that I have "pretty feet." I think I heard a few snickers then, but of course I secretly loved hearing that.

It definitely showed that I was out of practice. I had trouble doing some combinations that I had mastered last year. Also, after 80 minutes of stretching, jumping and dancing I found it hard to move. I'm still sore today! Despite all this, it was wonderful to be back at it. Ballet is a great way to get in touch with your feminine side, even if you are presenting as a male.

Is anyone else taking dance lessons right now? If so, how is it going?

[Avana]

Cool!

I'm beginning here in NYC at Ballet Academy East next week. I am really into the ballet (member of the nyc ballet) and it's something I've wanted to do since I was young. I'm really into dancing in general, but I've never had any formal training, just freestyle and various hippy spiritual dance rhythm type workshops, so I'm quite excited.

I was just about to sew the elastic on my shoes today!

Also I should say as a tip for all - male dance belts for ballet make great undergarments all the time. They are effectively panty gaffs with thong backs and really tuck it all away, especially if you get a size smaller than whats normal for you.

[JamieG]

Cool!

I'm beginning here in NYC at Ballet Academy East next week. I am really into the ballet (member of the nyc ballet) and it's something I've wanted to do since I was young. I'm really into dancing in general, but I've never had any formal training, just freestyle and various hippy spiritual dance rhythm type workshops, so I'm quite excited.


That's awesome, Alana! Ballet Academy East sounds like a good school. And I imagine in NYC there will be a few men in the class. Although, honestly, I like it when it's just me and the ladies. The few times other men have dropped by it only served to remind me that I was different from the majority of the class. I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences after your first class.

[Jennifer Marie P.]

Yes Im taking ballet lessons and love to wear the tutu with the pink stockings and also involved in yoga.

[pointeshoes30215]

Hello girls, I started ballet,tap and jazz in my early 20's and danced for 10 years till I got married. I loved ballet the best. When I turned 54 and my sons were grown I started again but just taking ballet. I take 3 classes a week for two hours each. I have always dressed in male dance clothes, but oh how I wish I could wear a black leotard, pink tights, and pink soft ballet slippers. Sometimes I have to make up classes in the girls beging pointe classes (adults and teens). My teacher has told me that if I was at proper weight and in better health she would let me do pointe work at the bar only. thank you, pointeshoes30215 Fred

[CamillaCD]

After the beginners course last winter I have continued with ballet dancing. The first school discontinued the beginners class for adults, but I found a new one in time for the autumn semester. This new school offers courses for many other types of dances.

This semester I am also taking a beginners course in jazz dance (e.g. the style used in shows and musicals). It hasn't got so many "rules" as in ballet. It is equally challenging though since I am not at all used to the moves.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm SO JEALOUS of all of u! Unfortunately, I can't pass the "under 60" barrier!

Here's a tip to all u prima ballerinas; DON'T go to see the Black Swan! Depressing ending! Plus, did she really learn to do all those moves herself? And, after being a pirate for so long?

[JamieG]

Hello girls, I started ballet,tap and jazz in my early 20's and danced for 10 years till I got married. I loved ballet the best. When I turned 54 and my sons were grown I started again but just taking ballet. I take 3 classes a week for two hours each. I have always dressed in male dance clothes, but oh how I wish I could wear a black leotard, pink tights, and pink soft ballet slippers. Sometimes I have to make up classes in the girls beging pointe classes (adults and teens). My teacher has told me that if I was at proper weight and in better health she would let me do pointe work at the bar only. thank you, pointeshoes30215 Fred

That's so cool. One of my regrets is that I didn't try ballet sooner, but if you were able to get back to it at the age of 54, that gives me faith that I've got many good years of dancing ahead of me.


After the beginners course last winter I have continued with ballet dancing. The first school discontinued the beginners class for adults, but I found a new one in time for the autumn semester. This new school offers courses for many other types of dances.

This semester I am also taking a beginners course in jazz dance (e.g. the style used in shows and musicals). It hasn't got so many "rules" as in ballet. It is equally challenging though since I am not at all used to the moves.

It's good to hear from you again Camilla. I'm glad that you're keeping up with the ballet and stretching out to jazz as well. Right now, I don't have time for more than one class a week, but I'd like to eventually take ballet three times a week and maybe try out a jazz class here and there.


Here's a tip to all u prima ballerinas; DON'T go to see the Black Swan! Depressing ending! Plus, did she really learn to do all those moves herself? And, after being a pirate for so long?

I liked the Black Swan. It was intense! However, it's not for the faint-hearted and do not see it if you're looking for a feel-good movie. I thought it did a good job of communicating the kind of pressure that professional dancers are under, and that a lot of hard work and anxiety is behind those pretty movements you see the ballerinas do on stage.

[marthaCD]

As you know Jamie I took lessons for a year en femme without the wig at a dance studio specializing in classical ballet. From day one i was in a leotard and tights underneath. The only issue is the tights over or under as men wear over. Nevertheless the owner never said a thing. Her only issue was if the tights covered the leg hair. In you pictures the scoop neck leotard with the cap sleeve is also sold as a mens by bal tog, mondor, millskin etc. Putting black tights over that would be acceptable mens ballet attire so I would not get hung up on wearing leotards in class. Rivers Edge, Action Dancewear, NYC dance all have MENS leotards on their site. Rivers Edge even has a mens long sleeve leotard. You might as well get some use out of it.

FYI Lady Ellen of LeFemme Finishing School of Piscataway, NJ, who was teaching me ballet en femme in Phoeonixville, PA is no longer out there. However she did a gurls class at a location in Bristol, PA about a month ago for 4 gurls.
I did not attend. Rates were very reasonable as I think it was $25. However if you google LeFemme Finishing School Meet Up she has 3 posted pictures of her CD ballet students from her classes. Contact her if you want to do a class.

[juno]

I just started Belly Dancing, as the only male in the class. I hope it will do good things for my waistline. The women are so accepting. Normally, when I try to get involved with the female activities, women look at me like I have ulterior motives. In dancing, I am accepted as a male dancer, like I've already passed the test for not being a primitive macho-man.

[JamieG]

Hi everyone! Just wanted to give you a little report on class. I've now had four ballet lessons this year. After a period of feeling like I had slid backward, I made some breakthroughs in the most recent class. For the most part things came naturally; I only made a few mistakes and got back on track quickly when I did make them. I'm really starting to hear the music and move in time with it, as opposed to focusing so much on what the next step is supposed to be and how to accomplish it. And as an extra confidence boost, the teacher said that this was the hardest beginning ballet class she's ever taught, and said I did well in it! Yay!

My biggest concern these last few weeks has been... costume malfunction! :o
No, not Janet Jackson-superbowl-level malfunction (thank god), but malfunctions nonetheless. I typically wear an underarmour-style tee and men's ballet tights. Well, last week I tucked the shirt into the tights to get it to stay in place. As a result, the tights didn't grip so well and started to sag. I was constantly trying to pull them up! If I didn't, it would look like my crotch was 6 inches above my knee! This week, clever me decided to put the tee over the tights. Tights didn't sag: win! But my tee kept crawling up around my chest: fail! :sad: Honestly, I don't know why male dancers don't just wear a leotard over their tights like the girls do. It would make things SOOO much simpler. Next week, I'm thinking about wearing a leotard under the tights, but I'm worried I'll still have the sagging problem. I think maybe I need to get a unitard, but we're on a spending freeze right now. I'll keep you posted.

Before I go, I wanted to respond to something that Juno said about her belly dancing class (which sounds really cool, by the way):


The women are so accepting. Normally, when I try to get involved with the female activities, women look at me like I have ulterior motives. In dancing, I am accepted as a male dancer, like I've already passed the test for not being a primitive macho-man.

I've noticed the same thing. It's possible they assume we're gay and not a threat, but I think it's more likely that they consider us more refined. I wear my wedding ring in class, and many of my classmates met my wife when she came to a few lessons with me. I think they realize I'm not gay :) . I think they respect us for being courageous enough to do things that would cause most "manly" men to melt in puddle of fear.

[katrinakat]

I luv the thread, I used to take ballet classes and it was sooo much fun!!!

When I was in college I would go to a weekly adult ballet class. I loved the femme, motions and the outfits (jealous). lol I would wear, black tights, a black leotard, black leg warmers. And over all that I had some cute oversized shirts and short grey shorts. Walking in to class was so much fun. I bought the cutest pair of pink satin ballet slippers. After class some of us would have a ciggarette and chit chat. They were so nice and encouraging!
They taught me proper femme dance positions and gave me directions to dance wear stores in the area. At times I felt like just another one of the girls. W


I think I might try and find a class. It's great exercise for your legs and buns.

[JamieG]

Just a quick update. For the first time, I wore a leotard to class and the world didn't end! Okay, sure it was underneath the tights (in traditional male style) and then further covered up by long sleeve tee, but at least I wore it. :-) It solved my problems of the last two classes: the tights didn't sag and there was no shirt crawling up my chest.

My biggest challenge this week was on Saturday I went out to a T-gathering and wore my really cute brown boots. However, standing around in those heels for hours killed my feet. They were sore for days afterwards. I was worried that it might affect my ballet, but fortunately my feet had almost returned to normal in time for class.

[Dawna Ellen Bays]

Do we get to see the boots? I LOVE boots!

[Empira]

I started ballet when I was 16. Loved it! Took it for a year stopped for a couple and resumed in college and then when I lived in L.A. I fell out of it in the past few years as I was in graduate school as well as working full time. Now, I am getting back in shape with returning to ballet as my goal. I built a barre in the basement and have been doing barre routines in the mornings which really makes me feel sharp all day. For my basement classes, I like to mix it up from wearing more male outfits one time and female the next.

Ballet is really the only way that I can get into shape.

When I was really into dancing, I took pas de deux classes and even took pointe classes! It felt soooooooo good to actually tie on pink satin shoes over my tights and be expected to do so! A thrill to the body and mind!

I wish that I could find a school where the men were allowed to come dressed en femme. That might be more than I can expect, but if I find one, I have the clothes ready and go.

Empira

[Randee]

I took jazz/ballet for two years and started out in my first class in black leotard and tights, all guy, no fake tits, no wigs, and no coverups. The ladies in my class must have liked it cause they fussed at me when I wasn't in leotards. My advice to Jamie and Empira is just go for it and don't worry about it. You won't be so nervous about it after you get through your first class. After that it's no big deal.

[Diane Smith]

My biggest challenge this week was on Saturday I went out to a T-gathering and wore my really cute brown boots. However, standing around in those heels for hours killed my feet. They were sore for days afterwards. I was worried that it might affect my ballet, but fortunately my feet had almost returned to normal in time for class.

Darn. All the while I've been reading your thread, I've been hoping that ballet exercise might actually make it easier to feel comfortable and walk in heels. Hearing that it actually works the other way (the heels make it more difficult to do the ballet) is kind of a big letdown.

- Diane

[JamieG]

This week in class, one of the ladies asked me why I decided to start taking ballet. I answered (honestly) that "It was something I'd been thinking about for some time, and finally decided to just try. I never would have had the courage to do it when I was younger." I conveniently left off the part about being a crossdresser and liking the fact that it made me feel feminine. :) She just nodded and said "I know what you mean. I didn't take ballet when I was younger, and even if I had, I wouldn't have tried as hard." I found her response interesting. I know that some women who might be interested avoid ballet perhaps because they don't feel graceful enough, but there's a whole other level for boys. I'm not sure if this didn't occur to her, if she was just trying to empathize, or if she was responding to me as she would to another woman. I didn't want to belittle her reasons for not doing ballet as a child, so I just nodded sympathetically and we talked about something else.

I do want to reply to something Diane said:


Darn. All the while I've been reading your thread, I've been hoping that ballet exercise might actually make it easier to feel comfortable and walk in heels. Hearing that it actually works the other way (the heels make it more difficult to do the ballet) is kind of a big letdown.


It is true that ballet will make you move in a more graceful and feminine manner. I have definitely noticed this, although I worry that it might be bleeding over into my drab mode. However, standing on demi-pointe in ballet slippers is very different from walking in high heels. I believe most professional ballerinas try to minimize their time in high heels in order to protect their most valuable asset: their feet. That said, if you do not spend 24 hours a day in heels nor aspire to be a professional dance, I don't think there's any harm in alternating ballet and heel-wearing. Just try to stick to your more comfortable heels, especially before you have ballet class!

[Randee]

Jamie,
Nice that that lady in your class asked. You missed your chance to add something like, "I was fascinated at the gracefulness of the girls dancing in their leotards and tights, but was just unsure of myself to try it as a boy." You never know when you might get a direct invite to get into some leotards and tights and join them. I got nothing but encouragement.You would like being able to dress for class like that even if you could not do it enfemme wouldn't you. You will have your answer ready for next time you get the chance I am sure.

[JamieG]

You haven't heard from me lately. We had a week off from class, and then I missed a week due to a minor family crisis. This week, I finally returned to class. One thing I've learned is that it's harder to get back into the dancing groove when you've had some time off. Although I did okay for most of the barre exercises, I really struggled when we moved to the floor. There was one dance that they had covered while I was out, and I was completely lost. I felt like such a klutz and that I was just in everyone's way. It made me kind of depressed. We're starting up a new session in two weeks. Since we always start slow for the newbies, I am hoping that the next class back will help me build up some confidence.

[Persephone]

Have been following your story with great interest and a sense of longing as I never had the chance to take ballet and am far too old now. I admire you. Sorry to hear that you had to miss a couple of weeks, Jamie. The new session will make a difference.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[JamieG]

Have been following your story with great interest and a sense of longing as I never had the chance to take ballet and am far too old now. I admire you. Sorry to hear that you had to miss a couple of weeks, Jamie. The new session will make a difference.

Hugs,
Persephone.

Thanks for your kind words, Persephone. It's funny that you talk about a sense of longing for a missed opportunity; I find myself wishing I had started when I was far younger. Although its true that both of us are too old to dance professionally, there is no maximum age for learning to dance. I'm in an adult beginner class, and the age ranges quite a bit. The class is mostly middle-aged, and there are as many senior citizens as there are people in their 20s. Based on your posts, I get the feeling that you are quite active, so you should have no problem with the level of physical activity. Maybe you won't have ideal "turnout" or be super-flexible, but you do what you can and don't sweat the rest. If you really want to try it, I say go for it. Why live a life of regret?

[Pinky188]

My S.O. and I are going to take some swing lessons. She has years on me in the art, but I want to learn!

[JamieG]

So our new session started up three weeks ago. I made it to the first class and the most recent one, but missed the second. Almost everyone is from the previous session, and everyone treats me like I belong. Many of the ladies are even quite friendly. One nice thing is this seems to be the smallest class yet; the other night we just had 14 of us. I really prefer the smaller classes. There's plenty of room to move and you get more individual attention. Our teacher also seems to think that our group is more advanced than in previous sessions, so she's excited about pushing us harder and further. I think there may also be a little bit of sadist in her ;-).

The teacher does have a tendency to tease me a little bit because, in her own words, "as a male I have so many natural advantages." However, nothing is mean-spirited, so I just play along. She does seem to spend a lot of time correcting me, but I've heard that ballet teachers do that for students that they think are working hard and have potential. She also gave me a lot of compliments when I hit such-and-such position well. To make up for the class I missed, she encouraged me to take the Jazz class she offers right after ballet, but I declined, since I had a family to get home to.

[JamieG]

It's been a month since I reported, mostly because I haven't danced much since then. After missing a week due to bronchitis (I'm much better now, thank you) and two weeks due to a scheduled break, I was back in class this week. As I said in my last post here, the teacher feels our class is one her most capable in recent years, and is giving us more difficult work to challenge us. The combinations involve many steps and are hard to remember. When she described the first one, I was completely lost. Fortunately, we repeated it many times, and I was starting to get it by the end. There was another that she did where I was like "There's no way I'm going to get this." But, I surprised myself and actually did okay. I at least got the major components down, although I know I messed up many of the finer details.

[juno]

Jamie,
I am taking belly dancing lessons. I am the only male. I dance as a man, but wearing women's clothes, so I am actually taking the class as a crossdresser, but it doesn't bother anyone. Proper men's dance clothes are not that different, but cost more. Here is me with some of the female dancers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/juno_dancer/5744182306

I realized that being a male dancer really gets you accepted into the dance group. They know you are a bit feminine, but are not too concerned over whether you are gay or straight. They only care about your "dance orientation", meaning that you are there for dance and not to look at women, regardless of your sexual orientation. It is wonderful to be accepted as a person and not just be seen as a man. In fact, I think that a lot of male dancers might have been crossdressers if they did not start dancing. For anyone that really wants to quit CDing, becoming a male dancer may be the second best way for a man to express femininity. It may even be good "coming out" therapy for those who are afraid of public expression.

For me, dancing has been incredible. When I was in grade school, the whole class got dance lessons (the disco age). I was a total klutz, and was always the last choice of a dance partner. As I have become more female, my brain function has become more balanced (get that right hemisphere in shape!) and I find myself a rather good dancer.

[Nicole Erin]

I was in ballet like 8 years ago. I kind of quit though after a year cause of course at my age back then of 28, I was a bit old to be trying to do pliés while turned out and you know there is the constant temptation to force turn-out.

[TxKimberly]

And people call ME brave?! LOL
That sounds like SUCH a neat thing to do. . .

[Sarah V]

Have been taking adult recreational ballet classes for many years now. Taking a break for awhile now as I work through some arthritis issues I have developed over the years. Miss class a lot, but still streaching at my home barre' to ballet workout tapes/CD's. I hope to get back to class this fall, most likely with private lessons now.

[JamieG]

Last week's ballet class was pretty much like the previous ones. I only have two things of note to mention:

1) On my way to class, one of my co-workers saw me and said "You look like you're going to work out." I simply shook my head and said "Yup." The next day he asked about my workout and I told him that I was taking a ballet class. He mentioned that he was thinking about taking a yoga class, but was worried that it might be a little weird for a guy to take it. This is the first time I told another guy I was taking ballet.

2) Our dance instructor is offering Ballet 2 after this session completes. She particularly encouraged our class to sign up for it. However, I had my doubts; I feel like I'm at the bottom of the class. Most of them can do turns, while I cannot. I asked her to tell me honestly if she thought I was ready. She said I needed to still work on my fundamentals, but said that she thought I had a lot of natural ability. I was a little hurt because I was hoping to advance, but in my heart I know she is right.

Oh, and a few responses to those of you who were kind enough to post last week...


Jamie,
I am taking belly dancing lessons. I am the only male. I dance as a man, but wearing women's clothes, so I am actually taking the class as a crossdresser, but it doesn't bother anyone. Proper men's dance clothes are not that different, but cost more. Here is me with some of the female dancers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/juno_dancer/5744182306

I realized that being a male dancer really gets you accepted into the dance group. They know you are a bit feminine, but are not too concerned over whether you are gay or straight. They only care about your "dance orientation", meaning that you are there for dance and not to look at women, regardless of your sexual orientation. It is wonderful to be accepted as a person and not just be seen as a man. In fact, I think that a lot of male dancers might have been crossdressers if they did not start dancing. For anyone that really wants to quit CDing, becoming a male dancer may be the second best way for a man to express femininity. It may even be good "coming out" therapy for those who are afraid of public expression.


Juno, I think it is so great that you are taking belly dancing lessons. I agree that being a male dancer does help you get accepted into a group of women.


I was in ballet like 8 years ago. I kind of quit though after a year cause of course at my age back then of 28, I was a bit old to be trying to do pliés while turned out and you know there is the constant temptation to force turn-out.

Nicole, sorry you had to quit. Certainly one has to take care of their body, and ballet can be rough on it. However, one doesn't have to be young to do it, as long as they know their limitations and are careful. I am quite a few years over 28 myself.


Have been taking adult recreational ballet classes for many years now. Taking a break for awhile now as I work through some arthritis issues I have developed over the years. Miss class a lot, but still streaching at my home barre' to ballet workout tapes/CD's. I hope to get back to class this fall, most likely with private lessons now.

That would be great if you get back into it. I find ballet to be great exercise; in fact its the only regular exercise regimen I've ever looked forward to.

[JamieG]

It's been a while since I've given a ballet update. I've been in the next session for a number of weeks now. After the last session, which was somewhat advanced, this one is more basic. However, don't get me wrong, I'm still learning a lot, and improving my fundamentals. I don't have to worry too much about trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do, or keeping up. A lot of my classmates are taking it for the first time, and that gives me a leg up. One thing I've noticed is my flexibility is greatly improved. I am about 6 inches away from be able to do a full split.

[docrobbysherry]

Thanks for the updates, Jamie. I'm CERTAIN u r encouraging a number of members here to try dancing. A decidedly un-male activity, as I recall.

Just a note to u and everyone:
I'm over 60 and STILL have flexibilities I developed in yoga classes taken in my 20's! Also, I don't work out any more, but do core strengthening excersizes and STRETCHES every morning, first thing! How does this pay off? I recently took a header off a chair I was standing on and badly bruised my leg. While being the first in our tour group 2 weeks ago to go down a water slide, I had an accident. I did a 180 half way down, banged my head on the side and went into the pool spinning!

In both cases I expected to come up with damage from the twisting, like a bad neck, back, knee, or elbow the following day. But, NOTHING except the sore leg and a small bump on the head! I still have flexibility. And, it must be because of my daily stretching! Try it, I think you'll feel better and be able to continue activities when others your age r couch potatoes!

[Randee]

Jamie, so glad your ballet classes are going well. I know what you mean by saying it's the only regular exercise you ever looked forward too. I felt the same taking class with my gf for two years. And for those two hours one night a week, they treated me like just one of the girls since I was the only guy. I so enjoyed being able to go to class in leotards and tights just like them and seeing us all dancing in front of the big mirror in our leotards. As long as you are just fitting in and not dancing a pas de deaux, I think they will be glad to have you learn the dance with them in feminine dance attire. We had a lot of fun with just a little teasing. Give it a try.

[JamieG]

So this week I decided to drop in on a Ballet II class in addition to the beginner class that I took. I spent two-and-a-half hours dancing in one evening. The instructor has definitely stepped up the pace a little bit in the beginner class, but I think I managed to do well. During class stretches, she comments on my improved flexibility (see previous post). We had a lot of jumps and fast-paced floor work, so by the end of class I worked up a good sweat.

The Ballet II class was quite the eye-opener. First, it was cool siting outside the studio and talking with the girls who take the class. They are much more serious about dance than most of the students in the other class, at least two of them are currently dance majors with aspirations to perform in a company or become dance instructors. It felt nice to be accepted into this group, and one (who also takes the beginner class as a warmup) even told me, "It's amazing how far you've come in a short time. I'm jealous of your natural turnout. Just imagine if you started when you were younger." Still, I knew I was going to be diving off the deep end, and joked "I'm here to provide comedic relief for the rest of you."

When class started, I was placed in the middle of the barre, so that no matter which way we were facing, I'd have someone I could copy. This was a big help because the combinations were more complex, and often only given to us once before we were expected to perform them. Still, I kept up pretty well, and when I fell behind was able to get myself back on track. Where I struggled was when we moved to do "center work" which is where the actual dancing occurs. They were doing jumps and turns I've never learned so I just approximated the best I could. It looked like a lot of fun, and I long to get to the point where I can dance like that. At the end, the instructor said to me "Congratulations, you made it and did very well." This made me feel proud. I know I was far from perfect, but I did my best, and I think that I was not too bad for someone new to that level of difficulty. I'm certainly not ready to move up to Ballet II officially, but maybe by next summer I could.

I'll leave you with a slightly amusing anecdote: This happened before I class, when I was changing into my ballet attire (black tights and white performance tee). As I pulled the tights up my left leg I looked down and noticed that I still had my boxers on. :eek: Boxers would look really funny under tights, not to mention that one could get seriously injured if you dance without support! Fortunately, I was able to slide the boxers down over the tights (since one of the legs of the tights was just dangling free), slide my dance belt on, and then finally put my right leg in my tights.

[JamieG]

I was really surprised that after my double-ballet night last week I did not feel very sore. This week was the last class of the current session, and sadly, there won't be another class for about a month. I think class went really well, seeing the intermediate class helped me understand where this was all going, and made me work harder because I really want to be able to do the jumps and turns they were doing. I'm getting better at the floor combinations, but that is still my weakest point.

In other news, I've been stretching on my own, and have now got the splits so that I am only 3 inches off the ground. While standing I can kick one extended leg to be at about 105 degree angle from the other, and I can reach up to about a 120 degree angle if I set my foot on a tall dresser.

[Heisthebride]

I think it's great you are doing something you enjoy and keeps you fit not to mention the gracefulness factor. I took a class last summer, not ballet, but burlesque which was really fun. More forgiving than ballet, I don't think I have the skill for that, but a great workout nonetheless.

At first I felt a little akward being the only guy. But by the third week of the eight classes, the girls were very accepting. I think they saw I was there to dance and not to ogle them. About that third week I was wearing heels during class and we were working on a routine that involved removing your bra. Not to worry we had leotards underneath. I didn't go in full girl mode to the classes but everyone was fine as we learned different routines with glove peels, feather boas, stocking peels, and even tassel twirling. It was so much fun.

The final class was a recital for family and friends where I did perform fully en femme. It was very liberating and I'm thinking about doing it again this Fall. For any CD's looking for a fun time while dressed I would highly recommend this option. Just find a group and check with the instructor beforehand.

["Mary"]

Wow! Impressive flexibility Jamie. Very cool.

[JamieG]

We finally started our new ballet session. I was definitely rusty after not practicing since the last class. However, we did fairly basic stuff, so it wasn't too hard. Once again I am the only male-bodied person, in a class of about 30.

I've mentioned before that our class is held in a very strange building. You have to walk through the basketball courts to get to the dance studio. Usually, there is a class before ours in the studio, so we have to wait in a hall outside the basketball courts. So I was sitting on the floor against the wall, along with a number of women in their tights, leotards and ballet shoes, when a bunch of guys came out to get a drink from the water fountain. I don't know if it was because I was sitting on the floor or what, but these guys seemed huge. At once, I felt both a little intimidated and happy. I knew that I was more like the women both physically and mentally, and that I fit in better wearing tights in the dance class than I would have playing basketball with the guys. As far as I know, none of the guys paid any attention to me. I don't know if it was because they didn't notice me, or they assumed I was a boyish girl, or they were enlightened enough not to care if a guy took ballet. Whichever it was, I appreciated not getting stared at, or worse yet, taunted.

In flexibility news: I am now about an inch away from doing the complete splits. I think the loosening of my hips is helping with my feminine walk. I just seem to have a more graceful tilt and sway. In fact, there are times where I worry if I might accidentally be walking too girly when in boy mode! :eek:

[JamieG]

I haven't had a chance to write much, but have still been going to dance class once a week. We actually had three guys one time (well, two guys and me). One of them even came back for a second class. I was the only guy wearing tights, but I've never heard anyone comment about them.

Last week, we were practicing a dance that requires you to travel from one corner of the room to another. We had to do it in groups of four. I was about to join a group of three ladies, when the teacher says, "No, those are the pretty flowers in pink tutus, you need to go across with the boys" (note, there was only one other guy in class at the time, so the "boys" was a very small group, also no one is under the age of 21, nor was anyone wearing a tutu). I wanted to say, "What if I want to be one of the flowers in a pink tutu?" but bit my tongue. This is the first time in almost two years where she has distinguished the boys from the girls. Fortunately, other than the grouping, there's only a slightly different way to walk, which we don't actually do very often. So while she sees me as the confident male dancer in black tights and white tee, I'll continue to see myself as the graceful ballerina in pink leotard, tights and poofy tutu.

BTW, not much progress on the flexibility front. I realized when I said I was an inch away, I did not have my legs properly at 180 degrees. I still have maybe two inches to go when I have them fully extended.

Jamie

[Darla]

Hi Jamie

Never responded before but I love your updates on ballet classes. I took ballet for about 3 years running in college, a few classes after and sporadically ever since. I think it's the fall weather and back-to-school feeling that makes we want to look into dance lessons again. I always felt I was an okay student but never really had the rhythm and coordination to really go at it. Of course one class a week just doesn't cut it. If I were to go back it'd be an all in proposition (pending wife approval).

I love love love the ballet, and (is evident since we're on this forum) of course all the clothes that dancers wear. In college I used to underdress in sheer tights and thong leotard under my "manly" unitard and t shirt on colder days. But after a while as you know the clothes and appearance fall away and it's your body and movement that really begin to matter. In my mind I'd be in seamed pink tights and tutu but only until barre and floor work began.

It's really inspirational to hear about the obvious roadblocks, illness, lack of flexibility, age, acceptance and in general life. I'm way past the age where I'd think of doing it full time, and have a lot of fun watching my daughter do it. She's amazing!
Please keep up the posts and keep going to class. Some of us here are secretly covetous, but mainly proud that've got the grit to keep going. I agree that ballet gave me some outlet other than dressing to express my feminine side, and I'll never forget my last class where the instructor said to me (as the only male in class) "you're dancing the girls parts here as I don't have the class time to teach both" admittedly I was thrilled. Was I picturing myself in a beautiful tutu and pointeshoes as awakened the combination across the floor? You bet!

Maybe someday I'll be able to post my class experiences here too.

[JamieG]

Never responded before but I love your updates on ballet classes.


Thanks for the response. I sometimes wonder if I'm posting into the circular file.



But after a while as you know the clothes and appearance fall away and it's your body and movement that really begin to matter. In my mind I'd be in seamed pink tights and tutu but only until barre and floor work began.


I know. Once we start work, I completely forget what I'm wearing. By the way, when I first started doing it, I would keep my tights on for the rest of the night just because I had an excuse to be wearing them. But after a while, I'd get home and say, "Let's get these sweaty things off!"



Please keep up the posts and keep going to class. Some of us here are secretly covetous, but mainly proud that've got the grit to keep going. I agree that ballet gave me some outlet other than dressing to express my feminine side, and I'll never forget my last class where the instructor said to me (as the only male in class) "you're dancing the girls parts here as I don't have the class time to teach both" admittedly I was thrilled. Was I picturing myself in a beautiful tutu and pointeshoes as awakened the combination across the floor? You bet!

Maybe someday I'll be able to post my class experiences here too.

I hope you will some day.

[CamillaCD]

Hi Jamie,

It's great to see that you continue with the ballet lessons. I have also continued with mine, attending two classes each week. One is with a school located in the suburban Oslo, while the second is in downtown Oslo.

This summer the first school also offered a 7-week course for all ages and levels. Of course I couldn't resist. The teacher was the very one I had in my first ever class nearly two years ago. She told me that she could see that I had continued practising. That was a big confidence boost. So I will continue as long as my body don't complain.

[JamieG]

It's great to hear you're keeping up with it, Camilla. I'm envious that you get two classes per week. Right now, family obligations and budget stand in the way of me doing more than once a week, but someday.... I hear that taking multiple classes is the fastest way to improve. That must have felt great to get the encouragement from your teacher.

[RiverdanceGirl]

This thread has insipred me. I've started doing ballet exercises and I feel much stronger. It's only been a couple of days but I feel the improvement. I'm mostly working on my legs with plie exercises but also will be focusing on the muscles between my shoulder blades. I've also ordered some totally to die for backseamed ballet tights to add to my dancewear collection. But now it's for fitness too.

[Jamie-Lynn]

Well good luck with your class and I like the Idea of the outfit for ballet but I am not really into Dance that much.

[JamieG]

This thread has insipred me. I've started doing ballet exercises and I feel much stronger. It's only been a couple of days but I feel the improvement. I'm mostly working on my legs with plie exercises but also will be focusing on the muscles between my shoulder blades. I've also ordered some totally to die for backseamed ballet tights to add to my dancewear collection. But now it's for fitness too.

That's great! However, when doing ballet exercises on your own, it's important to be careful. If you do them wrong, you could hurt yourself. I hope you have a good instructive DVD and/or book. When doing plies, remember the turnout comes from the thighs not the knees or ankles. It's okay if your feet don't form a 180 degree angle. The most important thing is that when you bend, your knees are pointing in exactly the same direction as your feet. If not, adjust your feet so that they'll be under your knees.

p.s. Your new ballet tights sound great! Exercise is so much more fun when you have pretty clothes.

[RiverdanceGirl]

Thanks Jamie for the tip. I've got my instruction from carefully chosen YouTube clips but they didn't mention what you said about feet and knees. I hope I've been automatically doing it right because I'd feel a strain otherwise but I'll make sure in future. It really is amazing what ballet can do for your body. My stomach was noticeably flatter in just a couple of days. I've always had the blessing of being naturally skinny but in the past few months I'd been developing a bit of a belly. Right now it's as toned as when I was in my late twenties ( I'm 44 now). I'm also doing the arm position exercises. The tights are Mondor style 301. The seams go from the waistband right down to the reciprocated toe. I can feel the seams under my feet when I move and it feels exquisite. They are the fully footed, which as I'm sure you know is hard to find with a backseam. All my ballet tights are Mondor. I wear them with my simple black short sleeved leotard. I really envy you for going to real ballet classes and being accepted by the women as one of them.

[JamieG]

So after a three week hiatus from class (due to a combination of illness, business trip and the class schedule), I was back in class this week. I was a little bit rusty, but felt like I did okay. At one point the teacher said to me, "You have such pretty feet, you need to make them move more." (I wasn't properly pointing them between each step of a movement known as a balance).

To make up for my absence, I took the jazz dance class that is just after the ballet class. I've never taken jazz dance before, but it was really fun. This was very contemporary, we warmed up to some techno music and then learned a dance to Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean." At one point, the teacher taught us the "Vegas step," presumably named so because it is staple of Vegas showgirls. She joked, "I doubt {my male name} will ever be asked to perform the Vegas step, but we'll learn it anyway." The whole time we practiced the step I was picturing myself in a showgirl costume. I learned a lot in the class, and have filed it away for the next time I perform in a drag show (I've been in two shows for charity). I look forward to taking the class again next week.

[EllieOPKS]

Jamie I am happy for you enjoying ballet and I am somewhat envious of anyone that can dance. Last time I tried to dance it was not a pretty site.

[Marissa333]

I have always wanted to do ballet, but never actually thought about doing it until now. Looks like I have some research to do...

[JamieG]

Jamie I am happy for you enjoying ballet and I am somewhat envious of anyone that can dance. Last time I tried to dance it was not a pretty site.

Yes, I can dance, but I never said that I dance well. I'm always the last to get the complicated steps and sometimes feel like such an oaf. That said, I think by taking the classes I am getting better. Maybe in 10 years, I'll get to the point where I look like an average person dancing, as opposed to a clown. :heehee:


I have always wanted to do ballet, but never actually thought about doing it until now. Looks like I have some research to do...

You should probably be able to find adult beginner classes in just about metropolitan area. Just check out the major local dance schools. I live near a fairly small city, and there are at least two options of classes for me. If I had more time and money, I'd be in both. And, assuming you're not planning on going en femme, don't worry about being turned away because you're male-bodied: most schools are dying to have more males in the classes.

[brassieres]

At one point, the teacher taught us the "Vegas step," presumably named so because it is staple of Vegas showgirls. She joked, "I doubt {my male name} will ever be asked to perform the Vegas step, but we'll learn it anyway."

Now where you the only male in the class there too?

I want to take ballet at some point, but it looks complicated.

[Marissa333]

You should probably be able to find adult beginner classes in just about metropolitan area. Just check out the major local dance schools. I live near a fairly small city, and there are at least two options of classes for me. If I had more time and money, I'd be in both. And, assuming you're not planning on going en femme, don't worry about being turned away because you're male-bodied: most schools are dying to have more males in the classes.

Thanks for the encouragement!

[joaniek]

I actually haven't been in class for about 4 years. I enjoyed it greatly, tho and was one of few males in the program. Tuff work for an inflexible body. But it did pay off in some sports activities. Usually wore a leo w/ tights over - mens style. Agree that Rivers Edge is a great resource.

Have fun with it.

[JamieG]

Now where you the only male in the class there too?

I want to take ballet at some point, but it looks complicated.

No, there was one other male in the jazz class. He has occasionally dropped in in the ballet before, presumably as his makeup class. Ballet is very complicated. I was so lost the first few weeks, but slowly I started to get it. The fact that it is such a challenge mentally and physically is part of the fun!


I actually haven't been in class for about 4 years. I enjoyed it greatly, tho and was one of few males in the program. Tuff work for an inflexible body. But it did pay off in some sports activities. Usually wore a leo w/ tights over - mens style. Agree that Rivers Edge is a great resource.

Have fun with it.

Why'd you stop, Joanie? I agree that if you wear a leo and are concerned about appearances, you should wear the tights over. Otherwise, you might get a few funny looks and maybe a comment or two. It's great to be able to wear tights in a room with 20-30 cisgender people and not even raise an eyebrow.

[joaniek]

Hi Jamie,

I ended up getting to a kind of sub-intermediate stage and while physically up to the task, the choreography over the floor needed more practice time than I could give it. I also didn't have much vertical - the expression was "get some air in those tights" for the male instructor. So I would make a run at beginner/advanced beginner each season for several years. I wasn't alone in that there were several other students (male/female) doing the same thing.

It is great fun and the sense of physical confidence and poise you develop is very rewarding. One year I did a lot of rock/alpine climbing - knowing where your hips are from dance class did a lot to keep me from testing my belay partners.

I think about going back, flexibility is in need of work. Strength and stamina are good, tho.

It's almost a shame to see so much emphasis on free-style athletic dancing and so much less of the classics of ballet. As the great dancemasters pass, their work is at risk of fading. But there's always the Nutcracker, I guess.

Keep at it. It seems like you're coming into your own.

Joaniek

[JamieG]

About this time two years ago, I nervously stepped into my first ballet class. I was surprised at how welcoming everyone was. It's hard to believe that I am now embarking on my third year. We had almost two months off since the last session, and I always struggle when that happens. I goofed up some of the early combinations and got some corrections about how I didn't have proper posture on my plies (knee bends). However, my teacher was impressed with my flexibility during stretches (saying it was beautiful) and said that my retire (standing on one leg with the other knee angled to the side and its toes placed along the knee of the standing leg) was perfect. We also learned a new dance step in the center. Normally, I cannot pick up new steps on the first lesson. But I think I actually got it!

Oh, and for those who care, for the first time ever, I "underdressed" in class. I wore a girl's leotard under my tights and a long sleeve tee. It was a bit too warm, so I don't know if I'll do that again until the weather gets really cold.

[Stephenie S]

According to Julie, and my memory, the uniform is a black leotard over pink tights. Has this changed?

S

[JamieG]

According to Julie, and my memory, the uniform is a black leotard over pink tights. Has this changed?

S

For young girls, yes that's the traditional uniform. In an adult class, like mine, there is no uniform. Some come in sweats or yoga pants. Of those that do wear a leotard, most wear shorts or pants over it.

[Randee]

You know the plain black leotard like you posed in for pics here is unisex. Just wear your Tshirt over it while you get warmed up. Then as it gets to hot, you have the perfect reason to shed the Tshirt and finish out class in your tights and leotard along with the ladies. You will be relieved at the acceptance knowing that you can always put the Tshirt back on if they disapprove. From the experience of my jazz/ballet class, they won't.

[CamillaCD]

Good to see you're still going strong Jamie. I too have started my third year, attending two classes per week (at two schools).

I have two very different teachers. One is a very calm French male with a wonderful french/english/norwegian accent. He has this authority without ever raising his voice. Very pleasant guy to chat with before the class. The other one is a young Norwegian female, very energetic and enthusiastic, gets really happy when we get it right.

[Jaimie]

JamieG I’m glad you’ve stuck with it for 3 years. That is awesome. I started ballet when I was 5. My mom asked me if I wanted to take Karate or ballet and I picked ballet for some reason. I continued dance classes until I was 24. I’m 32 now and I haven’t danced for 8 years. I really wish I could get back into it. I always wanted to learn pointe but my teachers always told me that guys don’t do pointe and that pointe is only for girls. Good luck. Stick with it.

[JamieG]

Had my third class of the year this week. I think I'm getting back into the swing of things. Our teacher has been pushing us really hard. Lot's of fast movements and jumps. It's been a great aerobic workout. I am definitely noticing an improvement in my ability to do center work (which is basically real dancing, as opposed to barre work which is exercises to prepare you for dancing).

Here's a funny moment. When our teacher was explaining the efface position to us. She said, "The true position is not like the way they pose in dance catalogs. And I'm sure [insert my name] spends lots of time poring over the catalogs." I happily replied, "I sure do" which resulted in some laughs by the class. If they only knew...

Finally, my apologies to Camilla and Jaimie for not responding earlier...

Good to see you're still going strong Jamie. I too have started my third year, attending two classes per week (at two schools).

I have two very different teachers. One is a very calm French male with a wonderful french/english/norwegian accent. He has this authority without ever raising his voice. Very pleasant guy to chat with before the class. The other one is a young Norwegian female, very energetic and enthusiastic, gets really happy when we get it right.

That's awesome. Are you still mostly in class with fairly young girls, or have you found an adult class?


JamieG I’m glad you’ve stuck with it for 3 years. That is awesome. I started ballet when I was 5. My mom asked me if I wanted to take Karate or ballet and I picked ballet for some reason. I continued dance classes until I was 24. I’m 32 now and I haven’t danced for 8 years. I really wish I could get back into it. I always wanted to learn pointe but my teachers always told me that guys don’t do pointe and that pointe is only for girls. Good luck. Stick with it.

Wow. I am envious. That would have been so cool to be dancing from age 5 to 24. You must have gotten pretty good. Did you ever consider doing it professionally? I know that some teachers can be sticklers about pointe, but I've heard there are some places where they might teach men pointe so they get a better understanding of their partners' balance. And of course, there's always the Trocadero's.

[CamillaCD]

In the larger school the classes are divided between "16 and above" and "below 16", so there is a wide range of ages. The experience level range is also wide, from me to those who have been dancing for many years.

The smaller school is the one I started going to. I think the adult beginners class two years ago was a test. There were 3 nine-year old girls, a half a dozen teenagers, and me. There were no adult classes for two semesters, until last autumn. Now we are about 15 ladies (most around 30) and me.

[Sheren Kelly]

I always wanted to learn pointe but my teachers always told me that guys don’t do pointe and that pointe is only for girls. .

I wrote of my night seeing Les Ballets Trockadero De Monte Carlo in the media section (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?167873-Les-Ballets-Trockadero-De-Monte-Carlo)

They are an all-male group that do ballet in both genders and do dance on pointe.

[phballet]

this is such a fascinating thread!! i've gained lots of encouragement from it cuz i've been thinking of signing up for an adult ballet intro class but as i';m sure a lot of you will understand there's quite a bit of apprehension. after reading through these posts i decided to throw caution to the wind and sign up! sadly the lady mentioned that they are still waiting for a few more to sign up before the class can start but at least its one small step for me:>

now to sit and wait...

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Jamie, Please let us know when your recital is.

[JamieG]

this is such a fascinating thread!! i've gained lots of encouragement from it cuz i've been thinking of signing up for an adult ballet intro class but as i';m sure a lot of you will understand there's quite a bit of apprehension. after reading through these posts i decided to throw caution to the wind and sign up! sadly the lady mentioned that they are still waiting for a few more to sign up before the class can start but at least its one small step for me:>

now to sit and wait...

I'm glad that I was able to inspire you to sign up. Please let us know how your first class goes (obviously after they have enough interest to start class). If you have any questions about preparing for it, or start to get cold feet, feel free to PM me.


Hi Jamie, Please let us know when your recital is.

Alas, there is no recital. This is course offered in the evenings through a local university. I hope to someday find the time to sign up with one of the two area major dance schools, so I at least have the option of a recital.

[phballet]

yay they actually called me yesterday to ask for an alternate timeslot...which means that there are more pple signing up although i may not get my preferred timeslot:> and yes tips on prep will be most helpful!:>

[JamieG]

yay they actually called me yesterday to ask for an alternate timeslot...which means that there are more pple signing up although i may not get my preferred timeslot:> and yes tips on prep will be most helpful!:>

That's great. First, if this is an "adult beginner" class, don't assume they'll start from first principles. Many assume you already have some basic knowledge, or that you'll pick it up as you go along. I was so lost the first few classes, but eventually you start to get it. I recommend you buy a book or two and start to learn the language: "1st position, 2nd position, etc.", "grande plie vs. demi plie", "retire", etc. This will help you to follow what the teacher is saying, and via practice and instruction you'll get better at the actual positions.

You'll also need some practice wear. I'm going to assume that do not plan to reveal that your trans. If this is false, ignore most of what follows. The only absolute requirement is ballet shoes (not street "ballet flats") and a dance belt. The traditional wear for a "man" is black tights and white tee. Men's ballet tights are thicker than women's tights, but there is some variety in styles. Nobody will think anything of you showing up in this outfit, but if you're a little nervous, you might try men's running tights for starters (that's what I did for my first class). Often times, they set no uniform requirements for adult classes, so sweat pants or shorts are not uncommon. However, keep in mind that baggy clothing makes it hard for the instructor to really see if you're doing things right.

[DanaR]

This thread has inspired me as well. I used to take belly dance lessons, and have been thinking about getting back into it.

[phballet]

thanks for the tips!

and yea they are quite lax with dancewear requirements so i'm gonna show up in a t-shirt and shorts for the first lesson. i'll be able to purchase shoes from them directly so that won't be a problem as well. now just to get over the discomfort swimming in my mind abt a guy going for ballet class:> haha gender norms here in my country are still quite rigid and traditional!:>

[Slo Jo]

Hey, I am GG w/ TGSO and GG Daughter at tender age.. Cute she was checkin this out!
http://www.cascadiaweekly.com/pdfs/issues/201206.pdf
Anyhoo; as a former student, Bon Chance!

[Slo Jo]

Replied to another
http://www.cascadiaweekly.com/pdfs/issues/201206.pdf
EN POINTE!

[JamieG]

Hey, I am GG w/ TGSO and GG Daughter at tender age.. Cute she was checkin this out!
http://www.cascadiaweekly.com/pdfs/issues/201206.pdf
Anyhoo; as a former student, Bon Chance!

That's great. Thanks for the words of encouragement.



and yea they are quite lax with dancewear requirements so i'm gonna show up in a t-shirt and shorts for the first lesson. i'll be able to purchase shoes from them directly so that won't be a problem as well. now just to get over the discomfort swimming in my mind abt a guy going for ballet class:> haha gender norms here in my country are still quite rigid and traditional!:>

Gender norms in the US are pretty rigid too. However, when you get to a ballet class, hopefully most of the students have seen a ballet before. They should know that most ballets involve at least one male dancer. If there were no male students, there could be no male dancers. I've heard some women say that they appreciate having a male in class; as it helps everyone to be more serious. Certainly, all of the women in my class have been very welcoming, and I forged friendships with a good number of them.


This thread has inspired me as well. I used to take belly dance lessons, and have been thinking about getting back into it.

Go for it!

[JamieG]

I took back-to-back dance classes this week. I skipped a class last week due to Valentine's day (in order to preserve the peace with my wife, I wisely decided that dinner with her would be preferable to my dance class). When we miss a class, we can take a free makeup class in another session. I chose to take a Jazz dance class that immediately follows my ballet class.

I wore footless tights with socks so that I could quickly transition to bare feet for jazz. The ballet class was hard again, but I am loving every minute of it. I was a little worried though, because about 5 minutes into it, I had this weird sinus thing occur, and I briefly became disoriented. I worried if I'd pass out if I continued. Fortunately, the feeling passed soon and I was able to continue with no problems. At times, I was not strong enough to hold the required poses. At one point we were in a fondue (standing on one bent leg with the other foot raised and touching your ankle) for like five minutes (after having done several in a row), and I couldn't maintain it. I did okay on most of the combination exercises. I made my share of mistakes, but more or less recovered from them. At one point the teacher taught us one of the few "gendered" thing we learn in class: how to do a ballet walk. First we all did it in the ladies style (light and quiet), and then all in the gentlemen style (rather dull and boring). We also did lot's of jumps and I got my heart rate up.

When class ended, I pulled off my slippers and socks, and pulled a pair of shorts up over my tights for the jazz class. I've taken this twice before (last year) as a makeup. I really enjoy this class, partly because the dancing is more contemporary. In the past we learned dances to Michael Jackson songs, and this time we learned one to "Bad Romance" by Lady Gaga. I was definitely behind every one in the class, but I think I did okay for not being a regular attendee. The dances have 10 or more different parts to them and they are really hard to remember. Although I could get each step individually, stringing them together was really difficult for me. I guess I should be glad that I didn't bump into anybody or step on any toes, but I'm sure that if I saw a video I would have looked pretty bad. Every once in a while our teacher would tell me "That's right" or "good job" but I think she was just trying to keep me from feeling bad. About the only thing I think I did well in was the stretches. My flexibility is really coming along, and an added benefit of all of these dance classes is I'm learning to improve my posture (I have always had a really bad slouch) without looking rigid or stuck up. By the end of the class I was sweating and breathing very hard. I would love to take three hours of dance in a row regularly, but simply don't have the time right now. However, I'm sure I'd be in a lot better shape if I did!

[JamieG]

I've had two more ballet classes since my last post. The first class left me feeling very down. I didn't do well, struggling through most of the combinations. I actually came home and thought to myself "What am I doing? I'm too old to learn ballet now. I'll never get it!" This week, however, was much better. The class was sparsely attended (perhaps due to the beautiful weather) and I got off to a good start. I think I did well with the warmups and only had a few minor snafus on the longer combinations at barre. I did okay in my center work, and even got the combination that I struggled with the previous week (see, you can teach an old dog new tricks!). But the most exciting thing is we're finally starting to learn pirouettes. We're just laying the foundations: how to spin in a circle and have it look like your head if facing forward almost the entire time (called spotting), but its a start. I was a mess, I could barely control my spin to keep from falling over, and the head thing just wasn't coming naturally, but rather than be upset with myself, I'll just keep practicing and I know I'll eventually get it.

I've always had a few friends in the class that I chat with before and after, but that night it seemed like many of the other ladies made an effort to be friendly and talk to me. It felt like I had broken some barrier and was being accepted even more than before. I'd like to imagine that I finally became just one of the girls.

The only downside to the whole night is that I had to drive down to DC for a business trip right after class. I didn't want to waste time, so I just pulled some sweats on over my gear and took off. It was late (the class is right after work) and the drive was tiring. I stopped at a BK for a dinner and felt a little self-conscious about being there in tights: especially around the teens that were hanging out and a pair of redneck guys. But I told myself, just act normal and no one will notice. It's not like they can see the tights anyway. No one paid me any attention, so I ate and got back on the road.

[JamieG]

After a two week hiatus, I started another session of ballet. The class was relatively small: maybe 16 people in total. That's 15 women age 20 to 65 and me. I felt like I did well. The teacher complimented me a number of times, but also gave some good corrections. She was especially pleased with my stretches: "Look how beautiful that is. Superb!" she said. All in all, the only thing I had trouble with was the final combination, which involves balances (a waltz step), temps lie (a small jump in place) back to balance, and a run into three grand jetes (leaps). For some reason, I couldn't get the feel for the jetes. However, at home I walked through it a little, and think that I can handle it if we repeat it next week.

I've continued to work on my splits at home. My side splits (each leg out to the side) are really good now. I can lean forward and put my forehead on the floor when in this position, I am so close with the front splits (one leg in front, one in back). If I put a small pillow under me, I can split down to the pillow and then lift my arms so that all of my weight is on the split for about 20 seconds. I'm hoping to be able to remove the pillow and go all the way to the floor (maybe one more inch) in the next few weeks.

[CamillaCD]

You do have short sessions! Mine are 14 weeks long. Right now we are having an Easter break. Also, I am not having classes this week because I want to have a doctor inform me what is going on in my left knee. It is not 100% ok. I hope I don't have to give up ballet.

How often do you practice your splits? I have come a long way since I started ballet, but mine are not as good as yours. It could be that only two/three times a week is not enough, or maybe I am just getting too old.

At least one of the girls know that I CD (I just told her after a class...). She has also seen pictures. She is cool with it, and has even asked me how my night out with my friends was.

[JamieG]

Hi Camilla,

Yes our sessions are too short: only 8 weeks each. That's about the only thing I don't like about our classes. I hope your knee gets better. That would be awful if you had to give ballet up.

I practice my splits whenever I can. We have a regular stretch routine in our weekly class that helps (although we never attempt splits in class). I do this same stretch and push my splits when I can fit them in: usually, when I get up (before everyone else in the house) and before I go to bed (after everyone else is asleep). I don't do a full stretch session though, which probably slows my progress. I was naturally flexible as a child (I used to be able to put one leg behind my head), so I think in my case, I'm just recovering lost flexibility of my youth.

That is cool that a classmate now knows about your CDing. So how was your night out with friends?

[busker]

I'm SO JEALOUS of all of u! Unfortunately, I can't pass the "under 60" barrier!

Here's a tip to all u prima ballerinas; DON'T go to see the Black Swan! Depressing ending! Plus, did she really learn to do all those moves herself? And, after being a pirate for so long?

funny you should ask. Here is the answer: "To gear up for her role as a professional ballerina in Black Swan, Natalie Portman trained with Mary Helen Bowers, a former dancer with the New York City Ballet and founder of the Ballet Beautiful fitness method. Here, Bowers dishes on how she prepped Portman for center stage."
She trained for a whole year. If you look up Bowers Ballet Beautiful on Google (which is what I was doing to see about toning exercises that DON'T build muscle), you will one gorgeous ballerina who looks a sweet 16, but is probably 30.

[CamillaCD]

Thanks Jamie, hopefully it is just an overworked muscle that needs some rest. I've got an appointment with a specialist this Thursday.

The night out was great. We try to do this every month. Meet at a bar, then dinner, followed by more pubs/bars. Some time ago we usually wound up at at lesbian place, but now it is more likely to be an ordinary place.

[JamieG]

I had a great class this week. Despite having a sore throat, things seemed to really click. I did pretty well at the barre, despite some fairly complex combinations, and once again got a great deal of compliments on my stretches. The center work was great. We started with pirouettes (rotating in place on the toes of one foot). I felt like I was really struggling but near the end of practicing them, our teacher said I had actually done one correctly. She said my spotting (making it look like your head is always facing the audience while you turn) was perfect. I didn't feel like I had nailed it, but its nice to have the encouragement. Maybe I'm not as bad as i thought. After this, we did a long series of changements and echappes (two types of jumps in place). We ended with grand jetes (running leaps). I usually struggle with timing and form on these, but once again our teacher said I had finally achieved one. Anyway, I've been pretty happy ever since, and just wanted to share.

[Felicity71]

I've now done two lessons in an adult beginners class that was for those who had never done any. The class was about 30 women and me. I stuck with conservative clothing, tights and some shorts. The second lesson I went with a biketard and singlet. I really enjoyed it although, due to the size of the class, it was a little too hard to perform all the moves. Being the only male, I could be mistaken but she seemed to want to get me to succeed and not be dispirited, and quit.
I've got strong calve muscles from continual use of treadmills, so I found it great to flex my legs :)

[CamillaCD]

My impression is that the teachers appreciate that males come to their classes. In one of the classes mine outright told me so. So continue to have fun Felicity. It is a challenging way to keep in shape.

I went to a specialist to get my knee examined. He concluded that the most likely cause for my problem was an irritation of something called Hoffa's pad. It explains all my knee problems since I was 20. For most the solution is to tape the knee in a special way. I have had 4 classes since and it does seem to help.

[JamieG]

I've now done two lessons in an adult beginners class that was for those who had never done any. The class was about 30 women and me. I stuck with conservative clothing, tights and some shorts. The second lesson I went with a biketard and singlet. I really enjoyed it although, due to the size of the class, it was a little too hard to perform all the moves. Being the only male, I could be mistaken but she seemed to want to get me to succeed and not be dispirited, and quit.
I've got strong calve muscles from continual use of treadmills, so I found it great to flex my legs :)

That's great Felicity! Yes, I've noticed that teacher tend to be very encouraging towards beginning males of any age. The ladies in my class (some of whom have been taking the class for 10+ years), say that our teacher always has longer classes when there's a male student.



I went to a specialist to get my knee examined. He concluded that the most likely cause for my problem was an irritation of something called Hoffa's pad. It explains all my knee problems since I was 20. For most the solution is to tape the knee in a special way. I have had 4 classes since and it does seem to help.

Glad to hear that the problem appears to be under control. Keep dancing!

[JamieG]

This past week I again took the jazz class as a makeup for missing a previous ballet class. This time, I felt pretty energized through the 3 hours of dancing, despite some serious work: for example, in ballet we had to do 32 changements twice in a row, and in Jazz we spent a good 30 minutes repeating a fast combination across the floor. The ballet class was quite small, only 10 of us, which as I've said before I like. I did really well at the barre, getting comments like "great work" and "beautiful" on my plies. Of course, not everything was perfect, and I got some helpful corrections particularly regarding keep my torso straight and above my legs at all times.

The jazz class was tough because I have trouble just doing single steps, and then when they're put together in combinations my brain goes all :confused2: . I did the best I could, and enjoyed it despite my struggles. I really want to get good at it, because many of the moves make me feel very feminine, with cocking and/or rolling of the hips and slinky walks. One of my classmates asked if I was going to start taking both classes back-to-back, and I was like "I'd love to, but it's both a matter of being able to spare the time on a regular basis and the additional cost." I've got a wife and kids that I can't ignore while I pursue my dance dreams.

[Beverley Sims]

Just read that you have come out to someone in the class.
I am sure others must realise you are not the straightest male around and I would think they would still be accepting if they knew.
Most groups I have seen have effeminate males in the class and nobody pays any attention to them.They are accepted.
Keep it up and you may be a Rudolf Nuryiev one day. Margot Fonteyn wouldn't be bad either.:)

[JamieG]

Here's my latest update. Once again, we've started a new session of classes. There were quite a few people there, include one "other" male in tights. Since there were a lot of new students, the class was a back-to-basics class, but that is all good, because I can still use some brushing up on my technique. We got a great workout.

I also stayed for the Jazz class immediately afterwards. In anticipation I finally bought a pair of Jazz shoes so I can just slip them on over my tights after ballet (I also put a pair of shorts over my tights). In the past, I've dropped in on Jazz classes in the middle of a session, and have had trouble keeping up. This was easier for me, but I'm still at a level well below the rest of the class. Nevertheless, I hung in there. We learned a combo to about 8 bars of music, with different steps for each bar. This is really challenging, especially since I wasn't able to get some of the steps when we practiced them individually. We then repeated it for an entire song, then changed lines (front people moved to back and vice versa) and did it again. I was frequently off but able to quickly recover, and some steps were clearly wrong but I did a vague enough approximation to get through. I improved with repetition, and when I was on time with the rest of the class, it felt so great to be just one of the girls moving in unison. Jazz dance is so much fun! At the end of nearly 2.5 hours of straight dancing, I was sweating buckets, but I've never felt so energized.

When I got home, I attempted my front left splits (left leg straight forward, back leg straight behind) and was finally able to get my thighs flat on the floor. :) I could only hold it for a few seconds, but now I know I can do it and just need to keep stretching. Additionally, my front right splits aren't far behind; a little more work and I think I can get them to the same place. I can already do pretty good slide splits, as long as I have time to work into them (I can't go straight to a side split from a standing position). I believe I've mentioned this before, but it seems that ballet and splits have apparently improved my feminine gait, as I walked to work there was a certain bounce and sway that made me feel very girly.

That's all for now. To my fellow dancers, "Keep dancin'!"

[Taylor186]

Congrats on sticking with it and congrats on the amazing flexibility. We do the side split in one of the weekly yoga classes I take and my head is easily a foot (maybe a foot & a half) off the floor. I don't know how some make it to the floor. And, a front split ... forget about it.

[CamillaCD]

The class on this Monday is the last one in this year's summer school. I have already signed up for the next semester starting late in August. Hopefully I can muster up some self dicipline to continue practicing some of the moves I have learned.

[JamieG]

I took ballet and jazz back-to-back again. We ended the jazz class with stretches, including the side splits. Initially, I stuck my legs out as far as they go with no strain, and my teacher walked over and said "You can do better than that," and started pushing my legs further (but still not to 180 degrees). Then we leaned our torsos forward, and I got my head about three inches from the floor. The teacher told me to stay in place and had everyone else come over. She told me to take a breath and relax as I exhale, while she pushed me down another two inches. We did it again, and my legs slid out to a complete 180 and my nose and chest were flat on the floor. I heard gasps and "Wow!" and then the entire class broke out into applause. :o It was so cool! Although I knew I could do the splits, I hadn't shown anyone, and up until then, I had to go part way, re-adjust and try again. After class so many of the ladies told me how impressed they were and that they've never seen a guy do that before. One told me she was never able to do that, even when she was a little girl.

All in all, it was a good day. I did pretty well in both classes, only making occasional mistakes in my combinations. At one point, I noticed that many of the ladies in my ballet class were making more mistakes than me; one time I was doing it right and noticed three others do something different, and that threw me off. The jazz class was my best yet. There was nothing as complicated as the combination from last week, and we seemed to practice the steps more before performing them. I am very tempted to officially sign up for both classes next session.

I left class with a big smile on face and feeling very energized. I am becoming a bit obsessed with dance. If anyone knows of jobs for 40-something TG show girl, let me know. :battingeyelashes: I would love to make a living dancing.

[SherriePall]

Let me add to that applause. Congratulations. Unfortunately, I know of no job openings for a T-girl dancer.

[Felicity71]

I love this thread, thats really amazing Jamie that you can do the splits, im not even close, its so hard to stretch :)
Im still doing intro to ballet 1, there are days when I get discouraged, trying to do the center work can be daunting especially when too many students blocking my view of the teachers legs. The class is usually only got me as one male, lol.

The picture is what I wear to class, usually a full length unitard and t shirt.

[JamieG]

I love this thread, thats really amazing Jamie that you can do the splits, im not even close, its so hard to stretch :)
Im still doing intro to ballet 1, there are days when I get discouraged, trying to do the center work can be daunting especially when too many students blocking my view of the teachers legs. The class is usually only got me as one male, lol.

Thanks, Felicity. I think it is natural to be discouraged, especially when you are just starting out. There seems to be a tendency for adult classes to not start at the beginning, so you have to piece things together the best you can. I've been dancing for 2.5 years now, and finally feel that I have suitable background to properly learn everything she teaches in the intro class. And I still get discouraged because sometimes I can't keep up. If your class is anything like mine, most people move towards the back during center work. I'll try to take a position in front and near the teacher, and use the mirror to watch what she's doing.



The picture is what I wear to class, usually a full length unitard and t shirt.

Nice outfit. I don't think I would be brave enough to wear a shirt that says "ballerinas" on it to class.

By the way, I was finally back in class after a one month hiatus due to vacation and business travel. It was nice to be back, but I found myself pushed to exhaustion by very fast-paced center work at the end of class. I made it, but just barely.

[Felicity71]

Ballerinas? the teacher smiled as she sold it to me, its a size 14 female. The school has a Repertoire workshop, The Romantic Era (Les Sylphide, Giselle) BYO skirt, either soft ballet shoes or pointe for those that have been doing pointe work. Im thinking do I bring a skirt if I do that class? :)

[JamieG]

Well, not exactly a saddle, although I suppose a grand plie in second looks kind of like riding a saddle... :straightface:

Yes, after a month's hiatus I am back in a new session of ballet classes. It was great to catch up with many of the female friends I have made in class, and there were a lot of new faces, including two young men. Our teacher started class by placing people along the bar. She was remarking that one of the young men had beautiful legs and that she had been begging him to join a ballet class. She then said, "So I'll put him next to <my name>, who has the greatest legs in the world." I got really embarrassed as she kept going on about my legs. Early in the exercises, she asked if she could use me for a demonstration to the class, and afterwards remarked that I performed the movement beautifully. The class started out pretty easy (presumably for the beginners), but then she threw in some new difficult things like releves on one foot (i.e., standing on just the toes of the foot). The class ended with some fast-paced center work, and I really worked up a sweat. My muscles are still sore two days later. However, every time my muscles twinge, I am reminded that I am living my ballet dream. :daydreaming:

[Barbara Ella]

Huzzah! for you girl. Keep living that dream. Of course, now you owe us another picture or two of those most fabulous legs, either in heels or points, your choice.

Hugs, Barbara

[joaniek]

Hi Jamie - that was a great compliment. I got a similar one in dance class a few years ago. "Nice legs under the tights - too bad you can't get off the floor." - thus my amateur status.

Look forward to following your season.

[Darla]

Hey Jaime

Just wondering if there's and adults doing points work at your school? I know it'd just be the ladies, and there has to be a certain mastery to pull off the pointe work, but I remember a long time ago when in college I took dance classes I had a goal to get to the pointe of where I could audit a points class.

Well - needless to say it didn't happen. But just wondering. There have been schools where the guys can take pointe if they're good enough. Usually the smaller noble guys.

[JamieG]

Hi Jamie - that was a great compliment. I got a similar one in dance class a few years ago. "Nice legs under the tights - too bad you can't get off the floor." - thus my amateur status.


That's funny. My teacher also gets on me about my inability to jump high.


Hey Jaime

Just wondering if there's and adults doing points work at your school? I know it'd just be the ladies, and there has to be a certain mastery to pull off the pointe work, but I remember a long time ago when in college I took dance classes I had a goal to get to the pointe of where I could audit a points class.

Well - needless to say it didn't happen. But just wondering. There have been schools where the guys can take pointe if they're good enough. Usually the smaller noble guys.

These are specifically classes for adults, so there's no special pointe class. I remember one session, one of ladies came with her pointe shoes and basically did everything we did, but just switched it to pointe as appropriate. I have heard of guys sometimes taking pointe, usually as a strengthening exercise or just to get a better sense of what their partners have to do.

[Sally24]

....... including the side splits. Initially, I stuck my legs out as far as they go with no strain, and my teacher walked over and said "You can do better than that," and started pushing my legs further (but still not to 180 degrees)...........She told me to take a breath and relax as I exhale, while she pushed me down another two inches. We did it again, and my legs slid out to a complete 180 and my nose and chest were flat on the floor. I heard gasps and "Wow!"

Was this a side split or a russian split? Either way I am very impressed! Just looked at some warm-up videos on Youtube and those splits just scream female to me. Wish I had the time and determination to do what you do, as I love dance. You go!!!

[JamieG]

I've had a few more classes since I last gave an update. I've been working a lot on my posture and the teacher is pushing us to do releve on demi-point (that means stand on the toes of one foot and bend the other leg to place its foot at your knee). I have a lot of trouble both with strength in the standing foot and with balance. I can tell my feet are getting stronger, but I've got a long way to go with balance. My other continuous struggle is dancing across the floor. I have difficulty with the transitions between steps at speed. When we take it slow and the teacher walks us through it, I get it. But when she turns the music on and we have to dance, it becomes a muddled mess. :-(

BTW, of the two guys who came to the first class, only one is still there. I'm guessing the other chickened out.

Sally asked:


Was this a side split or a russian split? Either way I am very impressed! Just looked at some warm-up videos on Youtube and those splits just scream female to me. Wish I had the time and determination to do what you do, as I love dance. You go!!!

It was a side split. I'm not familiar with the term Russian split, so I don't know how they are different.

[JamieG]

The last few classes have been very fast paced. By the end I am panting and drenched in sweat. Often the combinations include running across the floor punctuated by many leaps, and as soon as we get to the opposite side of the room, we line up and go the other way. I got really picked on during our last combination, which in laymen's terms involves a waltz followed by a sideways shuffle and a jump in place, then shuffle back and jump again, etc. For the balletomane's among you, the sequence was balance, balance, pas de bouree, echappe, pas de bouree, echappe, pas de bouree, echappe, pas de bouree, echappe. After a while, the echappe jumps get very tiring. At one point she stops the entire class and picks on me. She asks me to stand next to the wall and do a tendu (stretching out one leg in turned out position). She tells the class, "See that beautiful tendu?" and gets some oohs and aahs. She then asks me to echappe. I jump and she immediately goes "Bleechh! You need to use your tendu in your echappe." In echappe, you're supposed to jump straight up from a position where your legs are closed with one in front of the other (called fifth position), stretching your legs down as you do so, and then before you land your legs split apart so your feet will apart and facing opposite directions. Apparently I was not stretching enough at the top of my jump and she had me do it a few times until I got it right. At one point I joked, "Why do I have the feeling that everyone is watching me?" It's really difficult getting singled out like this, but the way I see it, getting personal attention is the best way to learn.

[CamillaCD]

I am with you there Jamie, doing ballet is not like a walk in the park! It is my way of keeping myself in shape.

[JamieG]

This week I finished my last class of the session, making it three years now that I've been formally learning ballet. I have definitely come a long way, but I also realize how much I have to learn.

Due to a missed class, I took the Jazz class immediately after ballet again, and that nearly killed me. We had an intense ballet workout, and then basically 90 minutes of fast-paced moving in Jazz. We learned a fun dance to a recent instrumental song (I don't know its name, but you would recognize it if you heard it). I started to wear down halfway through and made even more mistakes in a combo I was already doing poorly.

Well now it's a two month wait until classes start up again. I'm going to have force myself to practice on my own, perhaps with some videos.

[JamieG]

Our new ballet session started up a few weeks ago. The first week, the class was on the smaller side, only about 20, but there were two "other" guys there. We focused a lot on technique. I got a number of compliments from the teacher, especially on my plies and stretches. I got dinged a bit for not keeping my back straight (I tend to slouch in guy mode, and I'm hoping ballet will help with my posture). We did a lot of jumps at the end of class which was tiring.

I knew I was going to miss a week this month due to business travel, so I arranged to take my makeup early, and joined the jazz class afterwards. As always, this was fun but tiring. The movement in Jazz is much faster. In the class the teacher noted that I was doing much better with my back, which is a good sign. Although I'm not much of a Katy Perry fan, we learned a combination to one of her songs that was pretty fun. I actually did a pretty good job at it, until the second time through the song I started to get winded and goofed up more. I need to work on my aerobic conditioning (maybe I need some colorful leotards and leg warmers).

Earlier this week I went back for another ballet class. When choosing my dancewear before class, I realized I hadn't washed my usual alternatives, so I had to go outside my comfort zone. I used the black footless unitard I bought for my Catwoman costume, added white socks, and threw a white tee on top. We had a bit of excitement with a police presence outside the studio. Apparently there were some unauthorized persons on premises. Of course, there I was in my unitard surround by cops. Most uncomfortable, even if I was wearing track pants on top for travel to the studio. The paranoid girl in me was expecting them to say into their radio, "Ahh, I have a 10-94, girly man in unitard here. Please advise?" However, everything was cleared up, and we were able to get into the studio. The class was a bit larger than the previous week, although we lost one of the guys. We continued with a combination of barre work, floor work, and intense stretches. The teacher felt I was doing amazing with the stretches and commented on how far I have come in 3 years. I'm also making progress with my floor work. It's starting to come natural to me, although the fact that we are often repeating things I first learned in earlier classes is helping a lot.

[Sally24]

Great to see your updates Jamie! I just checked out a Zumba class(ya have to start somewhere!). I'm hoping to both lose weight and get more limber and flowing movement to my hips.

[Cam]

I spent 20 years as a ballet dancer with my career ending with a severe injury. Enjoy your classes and watch the changes in your body. You will love the long lean muscles you will develope.

[JamieG]

My ballet has been progressing well over the last month. In my most recent class, the teacher gave me lots of compliments, and when she gave me a correction, I was almost immediately able to fix it to her satisfaction. I seem to be picking things up more quickly; maybe I'm finally developing the mind of a dancer?

I was positioned on the barre next to a very limber young woman, and although we are cordial, I was picking up a vibe of competition from her. When we were doing our grand battements (high kicks) her leg got to a 135+ degree angle (pointing her foot up towards the ceiling, but a bit away from the body). It was quite impressive, and I found myself pushing my kicks higher (I maybe got 100 degrees, just above horizontal with the floor). When we were stretching, I pushed myself as far as I could go, which is better than most of the women in the class. However, after the stretch, she we into a front split. Showoff! :devil: Maybe I manufacture the "competition" completely in my mind, but it was a good motivator for pushing myself to do better.

Our center work included 16 changements followed by a polka and work on chaines turns again. I still struggle with spotting on turns, but I felt I made a little progress. Maybe by the end of the semester I'll be decent.

Now to respond to a few posts, I missed...


Great to see your updates Jamie! I just checked out a Zumba class(ya have to start somewhere!). I'm hoping to both lose weight and get more limber and flowing movement to my hips.

Thank, Sally. I look forward to hearing about your Zumba class. I'll bet it will be great. Ballet has been excellent for my flexibility and feminine movement.


I spent 20 years as a ballet dancer with my career ending with a severe injury. Enjoy your classes and watch the changes in your body. You will love the long lean muscles you will develope.

Sorry to hear of your injury Cam. I have been enjoying the changes, and hope to do ballet for the rest of my life.

[Sarah V]

Ms. Jamie: I have so much enjoyed reading this "saga" as it continues so well for you.

I too have experienced similar situations in my own adult recreational ballet classes that I ave taken for many, many years now. This has happened not only at my current studio, but where ever I have taken class where i have lived. I don't know if I would characterize your expeience as having "competition" or not, but I can tell you that you will find in some adult "recreational" ballet classes, women in your class who took ballet very serioulsy as children>>adolesents>>teens, and even perhaps into their college years before they stopped.

I am seeing many of these women coming back to class now that their kids are grown and they have time for it again. These woman are amazing to watch, esp. when they participate in a beginner/intermediate adult recreational class. They can/wil/do blow the other students away with their skill, and sadly, sometimes the instructors will spend much more time workign with and helping them with their corrections. To be frank, God & age has been very good to these ladies bodies and they have been blessed with great flexibility even as they have gotten older.

Sometimes, these women are so dedicated to ballet, it is their sport, their "thing", and they are lucky to have the time and situation to be able to develop their very advanced skills, but are in the adult class, b/c it is the only one that is available for them to participate in or it works with their schedule. One lady I remember came to an adult intermediate class I was in and did the entire class enpointe. Trust me, she made it well know to the class that she was taking 3-4 other classes a week (at another studio), and again, even though she was in her upper 40's she was blessed with a very slim body.

So, I guess what I am trying to say here, is don't let these ladies anoy you or take away from the fun and good times you are having in ballet class with them. For me they are an amusing distraction.