Transgender and Society

[Misty G]

Transgender and Society

To begin with let’s talk about GENDER. Gender is what is between a person’s ears. Sex is what is between one’s legs, And Sexual orientation is one’s sexual preference (Gay, Bi, etc) but what I want to talk about is Gender and especially transgender.
Most transgender people are hidden so far in their closet because of the fear of losing their family, friends, and their jobs. Most Crossdressers are married and have hidden this from their wives and families for years because of this fear. Some who have been discovered after being married for many years have ended up divorced because of being discovered. Yours truly included after which I met and married a wonderful lady that not only knows but accepts. She knew long before we married.
Not all Crossdressers are on the same scale in the way that they cross-dress. Some only cross-dress on occasions and never go out of the house. Some only wear underwear then some go all out with wigs make up and go out in public. Some do things to feminize their bodies but still have no intentions of fully transitioning.
All that most transgender people want is to be accepted for who or what they are. But before that can happen the public has to be educated about the transgender community. In my opinion in order for this to happen the closet that the majority of the transgender people are in has to be opened. More of them have to come out of their closets and be known. However there is few that are willing to take that chance and the stakes are high. The LGBT has helped a lot in getting some rights for the transgender community but in order for the transgender community to really be accepted they are going to have to go public themselves. They are going to have to take that chance and risk. They have to stand up and be counted. There are a lot of transgender people out there that will never come out. They will just remain in their closet and let others do the work for them.
Being transgender is not something to be ashamed of. It is the way we were born. It is not a disease or a sickness that can be cured. It is something that you have to learn to accept and help those around us to accept. It is something that has to be talked about. No one really knows way people are transgendered just that they are and that’s the way they are.
I know I have been a crossdresser for as long as I can remember. I am the same person and act the same way I always have. When I go out I don’t try to hide the fact that I am a crossdresser. I don’t try to alter my voice I just try to blend in and not attract too much attention. I dress for the occasion and don’t try to overdo.

[kimdl93]

Its really important to understand the gender identity is as Misty says, what's between your ears, not your clothes or your apparent sex organs. And just as clothes, hormone levels and genetailia may all be blended together in ways that are unique to each individual, so can one's mental image of gender.

Unfortunately, in cultures which have traditionally held very narrow, restrictive definitions of gender, it takes a long time for for those perspectives to change - if they ever will. Just the other night I watched the Ken Burns' classic "The Civil War". It ended with an African American historian noting that the Civil War didn't end until Black Americans attained all the rights of citizenship that been fought for during the Civil War...and that didn't really happen until the passage of the Civils Rights Act of 1964. And it didn't happen through armed conflict - it was achieved when Black Americans demanded their rights.

Of course, even today the legacy of racism persists in America. And in a very real sense, the visceral, emotional and irrational beliefs that lead to prejudice against Black Americans also are the basis of prejudice towards transgendered people.

[danielleb]

It is the way we were born. It is not a disease or a sickness that can be cured.

Here's the crux of the issue. You and I may understand this, but society at large has a long way to go before even beginning to accept this idea. Even some involved in the feild of research refuse to accept these ideas as plausible. Undoubtedly it will require scientific proof to enforce that statement, and that evidence is slow in progression at best. There's not a great vested interest in the idea of transexualism, and therefore, no monies.

It's such a complex issue for anyone to understand, and come to terms with. That's why so many of us take years to take the smallest steps out of the closet. With information and education, perhaps the timetables can decline, but it's unlikely that large quantities of closet dressers are going to come to light in the near future! As such, our political involvment is minimal at best, and society looks at us as the sideshow in the LGBT community.:sad:

[Sapphire]

In some communities and cultures coming out as being transgendered is probably easier than in others. Besides, there are other aspects to life apart from gender. Certainly the risk of being simplistically and inaccurately labelled to the extent that the rest of your personhood is suddenly eclipsed is one that must deter many TGs from opening up the truth about themselves. It’s a judgement that must be made with care and sensitivity bearing in mind the uniqueness of individual circumstances.

[sissystephanie]

I will have to disagree with those who have already responded to this thread. Gender is not just between your ears, and sex is a very definite part of it. Sex is not just what is between your legs, not at all.

I have been a crossdresser for well over 60 years. For almost 50 years of that time I was married to a dear lady who knew that I was a CD, and totally accepted and supported me. Unfortunately, I lost her to cancer several years ago! The main difference between me and many other CD's is that I dress only because I like the fit, feel, and look of feminine clothes. I was born a man, as most of you were, and will always be one! No crossdresser was born a CD. He became a CD because he wanted to!! And he remains a CD because he still wants to, not for any other reason. Crossdressing may not be a sickness or disease, but it can be cured!! You just have to have the willpower to stop crossdressing!!

Years ago, when our children were very young, I completely stopped crossdressing since I thought it would harm the family. This I did even though my late wife and I had agreed never to tell the children. They never saw me dressed! But after 5 years of never crossdressing, my dear wife begged me to start dressing again! She told me that she missed Stephanie in our life, and wanted her back! She told me that she would buy me new clothes if I would dress as Stephanie more often!! So I did and still am.

It is a complex issue, but you have to really understand it. You alone control what you do, as long as what you are doing is legal or at least semi-legal. No one tells you to dress enfemme instead of drab. You, and I, do it because we want to!! Your own attitude is what defines you, in almost every aspect of your life. If you feel that you can "pass," then go out and do so. I did for many years, before I was married and after. After I was married was better, because my dear wife did my wig and fixed my makeup so I really truly looked feminine. When she died I came to a decision which I still live with. I cannot come anywhere near doing what she did with my wig and makeup. So I don't even try! But I do go out in public dressed enfemme completely, from the skin out!! But with no wig on my almost bald head and no makeup, except maybe a little lipstick, I definitely look like the man that I am!! Do I care if people look at me? Not in the slightest!! I dress to please myself, not the rest of the world. If you don't like the way I look, don't look at me!! I have been doing this for almost 6 years now, and have not had one single negative comment!! Had many compliments on my outfits, and questions about where I bought certain things but that is all. Most people simply don't care what others are doing or wearing.

The major problem with society accepting us is that the majority of CD's do not accept themselves!! I refuse to be one of those!! And until CD's do accept themselves society will never accept us!

[KrystalA]

Wow, Stephanie...very profound. I agree wiht most everything you said. I dress because I like to, not because I really want to BE a girl, but just because I like to feel like one and look like one.

[Sarah Doepner]

I believe there are more and more of us willing to open the closet door, just a little, every year. Unfortunately, it's not enough to change the way the much larger part of society sees the issues. There are several things that need to happen for more to come out and create that critical mass necessary to nudge public opinion a little more in our favor. Education about what we are will help a lot. I'd love to see an article in the news about crossdressers that doesn't refer to all the stereotypes before respectfully addressing the issue of gender identity. And it can't be local, it needs to be on the cover of Time and People and Sports Illustrated. There need to be more role models out there. Yes, we need to find enough strength within our selves to step out and open doors so our "sisters" who are still frightened can look out and see it's okay to be themselves. Again, it needs to be local but it needs to be national as well. And there also will have to be condemnation of those who criticize the TG community out of ignorance and unreasoned intolerance.

It's a tall order and I'm struggling with what I can do because I've nurtured all those fears and concerns over years and years. Now I'm taking baby steps and where I can't do some of this myself, I'll try to help someone who is willing to accomplish what they can. Yeah, I know, it's big talk, but our thoughts come before our words and our words come before our actions and our actions can lead to change. Can we change society? It's our choice and our job if it's going to be done.

[Polly R]

Krystal said:>

> I dress because I like to, not because I really want to BE a girl, but just because I like to feel like one and look like one.

To a certain degree, I agree with that. However, I suspect for most of us, it's something you just feel you have to do because of something inside you. You just can't get away from it. You can lay off for some time but the feeling ALWAYS comes back, and usually stronger the longer it's been, and won't be sated until you have another session or two, three...

I'm not one for going out (yet) but don't want to alarm 'normal' people if I eventually do go out en femme. The most I've done to date is go out to the local CDers meetings a couple of times in the dark evenings when there were few people about. But if I do go out en femme during the daytime, I want to at least make a reasonable job of it so I don't attract too much adverse comment and thus perhaps alter the general public's perception of us to being more accepting of us.

I know there are some of our persuasion who go out looking like drag queens or worse so are obviously CD or more. Perhaps it's this image of us that the general public don't like and therefore tend to brand us all together as weird and to be avoided?

My two penneth.

xx Polly

[Rianna Humble]

Years ago, when our children were very young, I completely stopped crossdressing since I thought it would harm the family.

That's all very well for someone like you who is transgender because you cross-dress but you are by no means in the majority of cross-dressers who do it because they are transgendered. Please don't tar everyone with such an overly simplistic brush.

[sissystephanie]

Rianna, I was not trying to tar anyone with my statements about stopping crossdressing. Everyone who crossdresses can stop if THEY so desire!! Those who don't stop are those who really don't want to!! There is nothing that forces anyone to crossdress, except their own mental desire!!

Sorry if you misunderstood my comments.

[Pythos]

Rianna,

Sissystephanie is perfectly entitled to their opinion.

However, the quote you state has nothing to do with tarring with a simplistic brush. It does however illustrate one of the major mistakes many CDs do, and that is HIDE IT from their kids. This then makes it something wrong to the kids. Just like sex. My parents were not open in any way about sex, and I led a very sheltered life until my Rocky Horror days and my friends there. This has made me very shy when it comes to sex. (YES I am uncomfortable when it comes to subject number one). I know CDs generally hide things from the kids because they fear the ridicule the kids will get. Thing is if ALL CDs TSs and so on were indeed open with their children I have a feeling there would be many parents that fit our mould.

[Rianna Humble]

Rianna, I was not trying to tar anyone with my statements about stopping crossdressing. Everyone who crossdresses can stop if THEY so desire!! Those who don't stop are those who really don't want to!! There is nothing that forces anyone to crossdress, except their own mental desire!!

Sorry if you misunderstood my comments.

I didn't misunderstand your comments. You believe that because you cross-dress for pleasure everyone must do the same. You brand those who acknowledge that they cannot stop as weak-willed.

As Pythos says, you are entitled to your own opinion. I am just making a plea for you to understand that not everyone in the world has the same over simplistic opinion of cross-dressing.

You are also entitled to your opinion that gender and natal sex are one and the same thing, just don't expect me to agree, I prefer to go on the evidence.


Rianna,

Sissystephanie is perfectly entitled to their opinion.

This will make 2214 posts from me - I'm sure you can find ONE where I have denied someone the right to an opinion as opposed to simply countering their opinion, can't you? If not, what are you accusing me of?


However, the quote you state has nothing to do with tarring with a simplistic brush.

The quote was given to avoid the quoting the whole diatribe that stated SS's opinion that cross-dressers who acknowledge that they cannot stop are not telling the truth by using her example of one particular type of cross-dresser who was able to behave in a certain way. Her argument goes that if she could stop then surely everyone else in the community must be able behave in the same way but that they don't because of a lack of willpower.

She wilfully ignores the differences between those who dress purely for pleasure and those who dress because of who they are inside. Hence my plea not to cast everyone in the same light.

Incidentally, you too are entitled to your opinion and will no doubt conclude that I am trying to deny you that right by not agreeing with everything you have said.

[Valerie Nova]

Honestly, I feel that CDing is something many women find kind of creepy if a guy does it in a secluded, secretive way. In my experience, going to costume parties in women's clothes or participating in drag shows may seem a bit odd, but more eccentric than creepy, and women seem to have an easier time accepting that sort of behavior. It may have something to do with how women are more open with their feelings, in contrast to the typical male instinct to hide them.

For example, compare Norman Bates with Chandler's dad. Not the best examples, but one did all his CDing in secret, the other was quite public with his. ;)

[Elsa Larson]

Sexual orientation is one’s sexual preference (Gay, Bi, etc)

IMHO, people who are gay or straight do not feel they are making a choice.
Those who equate sexual orientation with sexual preference reveal their own bisexuality.

Please don't take offense - when I came out as transgendered to my 70-year old mom, she told me she believed everyone is capable of giving and receiving sexual pleasure regardless of the sex of the partner.
In her view, we are ALL bi.

[Valerie Nova]

IMHO, people who are gay or straight do not feel they are making a choice.
Those who equate sexual orientation with sexual preference reveal their own bisexuality.
Or they're just so straight they don't understand that there are subtleties that they have a tough time comprehending. People like us who are somewhere between the two genders have a way easier time seeing the complexity there. I remember being unable to explain to a friend why a guy he knew changed his sex to become a lesbian. He just couldn't understand how he could feel like a woman without being attracted to men. Oh, this guy was totally straight with no gender identity issues whatsoever, and I think it was because he fit neatly into a category of humanity that he had a difficult time understanding that many other people don't.

[sissystephanie]

Rianna, you are a very nice lady and I think highly of you. But you did misunderstand, or maybe misinterpet my comments. I never said that every crossdresser dresses simply for pleasure as I do. I know that there are many different reasons for crossdressing! But all those reasons come from within the person who is doing the dressing, unless that person is being totally dominated!! That is why I said that people who say they can't stop dressing have little or no willpower!! There is no gun held to your head, or a secret power within you forcing you to dress or become fully feminine. You do it because YOU WANT to, and you know that as well as I do. It is not a chemical, or physical force that is forcing you to do those things. That has been proven time and again by many studies over the years.

In case you haven't read a lot of my posts, I have been a CD for over 60 years. During that time I have done a lot of studying about crossdressing and things that have happened! I have spent much time talking to doctors and other people who really know the field. I have a rather inquisitive mind, and am always searching for answers!

Regarding your comment about gender and natal sex not being the same, I would like to see the evidence you mentioned. Everyone that I have talked to seems to think that they always are one and the same. Your Gender only changes if you have SRS, otherwise you are exactly what you were born as! Regardless of what you wear, or look! BTW, you are a good looking lady!!

[danielleb]

...No crossdresser was born a CD. He became a CD because he wanted to!!... Crossdressing may not be a sickness or disease, but it can be cured!! You just have to have the willpower to stop crossdressing!

I have a difficult time assigning any validity to this train of thought. Every one comes to this in different ways, and for different reasons. I think this is part of the reason science has such a difficult time deriving any conclusive information on us.

For me, an adopted single child, at 2-4 years old, I had no role model showing me to engage in this activity. While you can argue that I made the "choice" to crossdress, it was no more than the "choice" to eat. I certainly wasn't cognizant of the concept, or even the fundamentals of why I was doing it. As I grew older I came to understand this wasn't "normal" behavior, and knew that I had a male body, but I had great difficulty in curtailing my desire to dress. Again, you can call it a "choice", but in turning away from it I was led to a path of very self destructive behavior. I'm sure if I pushed hard enough, I would have commited suicide long ago like I should have.

I've spent a large portion of my life trying to prove to myself and others that I have will power, thinking I could overcome this issue for so many years. The most recent example, I rode through over 10,000 miles of pain and ended up destroying my back three years ago. Despite all warnings, I continue to get back on and ride. While not back up to the over 30K miles per year I had prior, and having to stay in bed for days at a time, I managed to get over 8,000 miles in last year, fighitng through pain and suffering to attain every mile.

The idea that with enough "will power" I can stop dressing is purely ludicrous. It has been well documented over the past 50 years that for a majority (*not all*) crossdressers/transvestites/transexuals simply choosing to stop isn't an adequate solution to the situation, even under the guidance of professional care. Sure, there are a number of documented instances of arrests for 10-15 years, but rarely a conclusion to the behavior. You would have to discount Harry Benjamin's studies as reported upon in his book "The Transexual Phenomenon" and a cache of studies since then (1966) to bring credibility to the will power argument.

This idea falls right in line with the concept that shook the gay and lesbain community (let alone all of the drug addiction parallels) for many years, and has since conclusively been proven false through brain chemical/structure studies. I certainly hope that you don't wish to allow society to stigmatize CD/TG/TS's with the same argument!


It is not a chemical, or physical force that is forcing you to do those things. That has been proven time and again by many studies over the years.

I think you may be overstepping your bounds slightly here. In fact, much like a drug addiction, over time nerual pathways are developed tying this activity to pleasure, and in that regard it is very much a chemical and physical response! Whether or not these pathways are overdevelped for us in the beginning as compared to "normal" males is still open for debate.
Also look into http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=BSTc&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT


Regarding your comment about gender and natal sex not being the same, I would like to see the evidence you mentioned...
While not particularly helpful to the case of CD/TV/TS, it is an intersting study showing where science is leading http://shb-info.org/sexbrain.html

Please don't lend credibility to and perpetuate this argument for society to hold on to, and continue to ridicule us over!

(For some fun reading (if you haven't already), in a semi-related subject, you may want to take a look at Ed Wilson's books "Sociobiology: The New Synthesis" and "On Human Nature". At the time of their release it sparked up controversy over the idea that we are in fact born with traits and behaviors that are passed on through evolution as opposed to learned/taught, or to phrase it appropriately, "chosen".)

[Frédérique]

I was going to submit this the other day, Misty, but I misplaced your thoughtful thread! :doh:


To begin with let’s talk about GENDER. Gender is what is between a person’s ears. Sex is what is between one’s legs, And Sexual orientation is one’s sexual preference (Gay, Bi, etc) but what I want to talk about is Gender and especially transgender.

I think it’s a little more complicated than that. Gender is more than what is between your ears, for instance. If you’re saying that gender is all in the mind, I would counter by saying that our entire being contributes to the “idea” of gender, and outside forces, be they environmental, emotional, familial, or societal, all contribute to an understanding, or subsequent clouding of this human issue. Also, someone had to tell you about the word “gender,” accompanied by their opinion of what the word means or is supposed to mean. I guess what I’m trying to say is keep an open mind, or think less about gender, according to your “preference.” Too much cerebral discussion may cause gender agony, a very painful condition indeed...


All that most transgender people want is to be accepted for who or what they are.

It really doesn’t matter to me if I’m accepted by others or not. I recognize certain individuals who, for one reason or another, cannot or will not accept anything less than a polarized view of this so-called gender divide. It isn’t a deep concept to us, but it is to them, and anything that requires using brain cells (see above) is doomed to failure. Accordingly, I accept the fact that others don’t accept (or acknowledge) transgender people. Sadly, the concept of “queer” is easier to understand for most outsiders; in fact they are the ones who created that inaccurate term in the first place...


The LGBT has helped a lot in getting some rights for the transgender community but in order for the transgender community to really be accepted they are going to have to go public themselves. They are going to have to take that chance and risk. They have to stand up and be counted. There are a lot of transgender people out there that will never come out. They will just remain in their closet and let others do the work for them.

Frankly, I feel like society has swept us up in a neat pile along with LGBT, and then pushed us out of sight under the nearest carpet of indifference – this, by itself, is a reason to be active in changing societal attitudes towards crossdressing, but I would prefer to not stand up and not be counted. In other, more clarified terms, people should mind their own business, whatever it may be. I’m happy in my own little world (call it the closet if you must), and any “work” others may do for me will have nothing to do with my own personal agenda. Why does wearing a skirt now and then have to be dovetailed with a militant LGBT stance on issues of societal acceptance? I’m a lover, not a fighter, for crying out loud...


(Being transgender) is something that you have to learn to accept and help those around us to accept.

I have accepted it from day one, but I must say I don’t see why I have to help others to accept me. They should have within their hearts the capacity for compassion, and if they don’t, nothing that I say or do will make any difference. I talk a lot about sensibilities around here, and their connection with our expression via appearance and/or comportment, because I believe that crossdressing springs forth from this inner “compassion,” for lack of a better word. Why waste your time trying to change people around you? Just reading the posts on this site will clearly demonstrate just how difficult it is to explain crossdressing, or transgender, to each other. Time is short, and better spent simply crossdressing...


I know I have been a crossdresser for as long as I can remember. I am the same person and act the same way I always have.

Same here – isn’t that enough?

[Fab Karen]

For accuracy replace the word "most" with many. But you're correct, if society doesn't see us out doing things everyone does, how will they know we are just everyday people? If you're under-age/still need family's help to survive, then certainly being out is in some cases very risky. Certain employment situations can be similar( though becoming rarer as society moves forward ). But evaluate things honestly, rather than just from irrational fear of being different- the more of us doing what we can means the more understanding/acceptance will come. Our gay brothers & sisters have proven this.

[Charleen]

I'm TG. Too old to transition and frankly do not have the money. I actively support LGBT rights and do my part in letting people know. I'm out with quit a few people. The picture I use as my avatar was taken outside the Pirate House restaurant in Savannah back in September by a fellow sister from here on this board. I was up there for their Pride festival and did the entire 4 days as me. I expieerienced no negetive reactions whether I was "read" or not. I also attended the Pride Fest in Jacksonville wearing a Transgender Pride T-shirt!
I wear a cap with the unofficial TG flag on it and have a sticker of on my car.
In my daily life I have to live a bit differently as I have to earn a living in a small town. That being said, I keep my hair and nails long with polish on the nails. Brown black mascara on my upper lashes and I also wear hoop earrings, bracelet and 7 rings. I come across as effeminate but can play "the guy" when need to, after all I've had all my life to practice being him. I guess you can say I'm hiding in plain sight.
That's just me. I've been around here long enough to know that we're all different here. We have everyone here from the casual CD to those that have transitioned. For me I do what I do because I must for my own well being. It's taken me years to reach this point and yet I feel I'm still at the beginning with a boat load more to learn as well as teach to those who want to know.
I'm not going to get into the debate that SS started. We all have to make up our own minds about who we are and why we are and why we do what we do. Me, I see vast prejudices toward our community and feel that education is the answer whether it's from me personally or through the efforts of the various organizations I support.

[rhonda]

I agree with Stephanie you cd because you want to , for what ever reason , but I'm in cd then out with cd , so I also agree with Polly R each time you come back to cd , you're desire to cd is stronger, my my I'm on a shopping spree may God love us all

[donnalee]

The oniy consistent thing about all the member of this website is that there is absolutely nothing consistent about any of them. There are some similarities one to the next, but any blanket statement is bound to be false. There seems to be an attempt to accept the assesments of "professionals" as to the application of their theories, but these fall far short of even a very generalized connection between the different people here. I came to this site trying to figure myself out; 2 1/2 years later I'm no closer to an answer, but have had a look into hundreds of different lives, which brings me back to my first statement.