Working on Voice changing after transitioning

[Diane Elizabeth]

Is any one still working on achieving their feminine voice after having transitioned. I think that is my biggest fear. Not having a proper voice after tranition. Let me throw in another question along the same line. How aboout having facial hair as a female. I am going thru electrolysis but I am a couple of years away from being hairless. I have to let let grow for 2 days before each appt. I just can't picture living as a bearded lady.

[Katesback]

I would have to say that if your voices is not reasonable you will never get PAST what you call transition!

As far as facial hair. Well I had had SRS and FFS. I had seven rounds of laser and it did make a difference on my face. I do have to shave everyday though and to tell you the truth it is not a big deal to me. I could go get it taken care of but I suppose I am lazy or something like that. Some genetic women have to shave I might add.

KAtie

[CharleneT]

As your facial hair is worked on, it gets more sparse, so not so apparent. Hence, yes, you can be living full time while still having your face cleared - not that that is good idea, but it can work out.

Voice, ya better get it close before you go full time . . . otherwise, you'll be read often.

[Stephenie S]

A visible beard shadow is a deal breaker. Enough makeup to cover a visible beard shadow in daylight is a deal breaker. Get your electrolysis done ASAP. The bearded lady look is out this year.

Voice? Fortunately this is one thing that won't cost you any money. All it takes is practice. Don't think for a minute you can't do it. You can. Can you sit down and play the piano? Can you speak Chinese? Maybe not. But you COULD do either one of those things with practice. That's all it takes to learn to sound female.

Another thing I often tell people. You have to be willing to sound silly to yourself. You are NOT gonna open your mouth and have a sultry, sexy, feminine voice come out. But neither do most women. Women's voices are all OVER the map, from deep and hoarse to high and squeaky. You are going to sound silly to yourself when you do this. But other people don't know how you sound. To them, you are just gonna be that woman with the funny voice. And believe me, there are PLENTY of women with funny voices.

Relax. Use the time while you are finishing your electrolysis to polish up your voice. Use your female voice ALL THE TIME. DON'T slip back into your comfy old guy voice EVER, even while you slip back into your comfy guy persona. You have to get used to talking like that ALL THE TIME. Remember you are a woman now. (Well you are planning on it.)

This transition is not going to be EASY. Nobody promised you a rose garden. Practice, and do it ALL THE TIME.

S

[Katesback]

When I was working for the state helping trans people I would often hear the voice question. My best answer to it is that if I were to pull my gun out and point it at you and say talk like a girl or I pull the triger I guarantee you would. I then would tell them that until they program thier brain to having a voice being a life and death importance they wont likely have success.

Katie

[Stephenie S]

And do it ALL THE TIME!

Get over the notion that you will have a "guy" voice and a "feminine" voice. It's got to be YOUR voice. Is it gonna sound silly? You betcha. But keep at it. Nothing happens overnight.

[Stephanie Anne]

Is any one still working on achieving their feminine voice after having transitioned. I think that is my biggest fear. Not having a proper voice after tranition. Let me throw in another question along the same line. How aboout having facial hair as a female. I am going thru electrolysis but I am a couple of years away from being hairless. I have to let let grow for 2 days before each appt. I just can't picture living as a bearded lady.

Just start working on training your voice and your mind during transition. It is quite normal and healthy to have 2-3 years from start to finish with transition and that is more than enough time to alter you habits and train your voice into the feminine range.

[Ericka2]

Having a female voice would be nice, but, I've notice while I been out enfem that often I been forced to speak, specially when I been shopping and ask If they could help me with something specific and I never practice my voice cause I feel silly, and I haven't encounter any problems and I been having conversations not lengthy but enough to feel comfortable, I don't worry much about my voice since I heard some women with some unusual voices and can't believe they are actual woman with such rough voice, so that to me is last in my list when I'll transition.

[amielts]

Voice training is difficult and can take a long time. I know many post-transition people who still don't have the right voice. But if you start work on it early on, you will get there in time.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I have very little facial hair so for me it is not an issue as when I do shave, you can't tell I had any hair so I don't know if the cost of electrolysis is worth it to me.

As far as voice, to me that is very important and a dead giveaway. Even though women have all sorts of voice ranges, if you heard them on the phone, I bet you could still identify them as a woman.

This may sound silly, but the way I get most of my practice is instead of thinking thoughts in my mind, I verbalize then out loud - yes, talk to myself (but not in public :) ). I don't think you can get enough practice and as others have stated, you have to practice, practice, practice 24/7.

The advice NOT to use your male voice at all is very sound advice but very impracticable if you have not transitioned full time. Until your are full time, you do need to take every available opportunity to use only your female voice so that when you are ready to fully transition, you have your voice down solid.

I have also found that as time passes you keep refining your voice until you feel really comfortable with it.

I have been using my female voice for well over a year now full time and my voice sounds female and I have no problem "passing" but my voice is still evolving and may continue for years.

[Stephenie S]

Traci says:

"The advice NOT to use your male voice at all is very sound advice but very impracticable if you have not transitioned full time."

But you HAVE to use your female voice (remember I said it has to become YOUR voice) in order to learn it. Just like women's voices are all over the map, so are many men's voices. If you talk feminine BEFORE transition, people will just think you are gay. And what's wrong with that? Are you homophobic?

Just like you have to start electrolysis NOW, you have to start working on your female voice NOW. Having a comfy "guy" persona and a comfy ":guy" voice to fall back on will be a HUGE impediment to your transition.

If you truly want to transition YOU HAVE TO DO IT. Transition an action. You have to do it. Being afraid to talk like a woman because someone will think you strange is a false fear. What do you imagine they will think of you when you transition? You CAN'T transition in a vacuum. It doesn't happen that way. You can't get all ready and then "POOF", you're done. It takes time and practice. And the ONLY way to get in the required practice is to do it. There is no other way. There's gonna be a time when you are in between. It's called "transition". You're not in transition until you actually START doing it. Before that you are just thinking about transition. Then afterwords you are done. You will have transitioned.

I am sorry to sound so harsh, but this is all true. As long as you are in secret, you are not in transition. You can't say, "Oh, I'm all transitioned except for my job." No you're not. Transition is the part where you actually DO it. Then, transition is over and you are done. Some people never start. They are the dreamers. Some people never finish. They are the "trannies".

OK, Herein lies the end of another rant from Stephenie. I'll go make a nice cup of tea now and calm down.

S

[CharleneT]

Traci says:

"The advice NOT to use your male voice at all is very sound advice but very impracticable if you have not transitioned full time."

But you HAVE to use your female voice (remember I said it has to become YOUR voice) in order to learn it. Just like women's voices are all over the map, so are many men's voices. If you talk feminine BEFORE transition, people will just think you are gay. And what's wrong with that? Are you homophobic?

Whoa! Yes, you have to practice, and getting good at it will eventually mean using your feminine voice more and more - and then all the time. BUT, at least according to my voice therapist (who specializes in teaching TS folks cross gender voice). You should ramp up slowly as you can actually hurt your vocal chords by holding your pitch high but without being relaxed and/or having the muscles involved be "trained yet". You can easily strain your voice by trying too hard, or doing too much before the muscles have some "memory" of what you need them to do.

As for your comment about a gay sounding voice, there are plenty of reasons to not want to sound gay, without being homo-phobic !! I mean WTF ?? Your comment is way too black and white for this sort of issue.



Just like you have to start electrolysis NOW, you have to start working on your female voice NOW. Having a comfy "guy" persona and a comfy ":guy" voice to fall back on will be a HUGE impediment to your transition.

I agree that starting very early on both is wise and will save you much trouble later on. But I cannot see how it will be an impediment to transition ? Unless you fall back on it a lot after going full time ? Everyone's transition has its own issues, speed and twists and turns. This sort of generalization simply cannot work. How do you know the issues of another's experience, needs and the condition of their life ? You say "comfy guy voice", it is likely that all of the MTF's here are pretty comfortable with their guy voice; they've used it for their entire life up to this point !




If you truly want to transition YOU HAVE TO DO IT. Transition an action. You have to do it. Being afraid to talk like a woman because someone will think you strange is a false fear. What do you imagine they will think of you when you transition? You CAN'T transition in a vacuum. It doesn't happen that way. You can't get all ready and then "POOF", you're done. It takes time and practice. And the ONLY way to get in the required practice is to do it. There is no other way. There's gonna be a time when you are in between. It's called "transition". You're not in transition until you actually START doing it. Before that you are just thinking about transition. Then afterwords you are done. You will have transitioned.

You are right that there is a stepping off point, where you either get serious or not. As well that there is a lot of practice to be done (w voice for example, you need to get over that comfy guy voice). But again, the steps of transition are many. Not everyone does them all in the same order, nor do I think they should. To each their own, especially with a process as daunting and complex as gender transition.



I am sorry to sound so harsh, but this is all true. As long as you are in secret, you are not in transition. ....

S

Big WHOA ! Who says you cannot accomplish some of transition in secret ?? Exactly when you start to go public, and how much ... well, there are many ways with the same end result. I've personally known people here in my town, and on this board ( or both ) who have "done it" partially in secret and with grand success. There are many people who believe that the first step of transition is nothing more than the thought "... yes I can do this and I will...".

I do not mean to be too harsh, but I do think you are generalizing too much about this subject. As well, there is no "right way" to transition. Yes, there are ways that will be harder, take longer or may cause a person a lot of trouble. But they may be just right for that person. They may in fact be the only way that person can do it - for whatever reason(s). Sure we give out a lot of advice about this, trying to help others avoid pitfalls. But we do not know their life so well as to tell them that it won't work if they don't do it our way.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Traci says:

"The advice NOT to use your male voice at all is very sound advice but very impracticable if you have not transitioned full time."

But you HAVE to use your female voice (remember I said it has to become YOUR voice) in order to learn it. Just like women's voices are all over the map, so are many men's voices. If you talk feminine BEFORE transition, people will just think you are gay. And what's wrong with that? Are you homophobic?

Just like you have to start electrolysis NOW, you have to start working on your female voice NOW. Having a comfy "guy" persona and a comfy ":guy" voice to fall back on will be a HUGE impediment to your transition.

If you truly want to transition YOU HAVE TO DO IT. Transition an action. You have to do it. Being afraid to talk like a woman because someone will think you strange is a false fear. What do you imagine they will think of you when you transition? You CAN'T transition in a vacuum. It doesn't happen that way. You can't get all ready and then "POOF", you're done. It takes time and practice. And the ONLY way to get in the required practice is to do it. There is no other way. There's gonna be a time when you are in between. It's called "transition". You're not in transition until you actually START doing it. Before that you are just thinking about transition. Then afterwords you are done. You will have transitioned.

I am sorry to sound so harsh, but this is all true. As long as you are in secret, you are not in transition. You can't say, "Oh, I'm all transitioned except for my job." No you're not. Transition is the part where you actually DO it. Then, transition is over and you are done. Some people never start. They are the dreamers. Some people never finish. They are the "trannies".

OK, Herein lies the end of another rant from Stephenie. I'll go make a nice cup of tea now and calm down.

S



Your comments are totally inappropiate. There are many reasons why one would not be out full-time and can not use their female voice 24/7 such as in their job when they have not "come-out." Do you really expect for a military officer or a non-com who is commanding their troops in a combat zone to use their female voice? How about a radio announcer hired for his baratone voice, a professional football player, fireman, police officer, a prison guard in a male prison, and a lumber jack just to name a few occupations.

And you stating that I am "homophobic" is insulting and rude as I am a very happy Lesbian in a female-to-female relationship.

And You being a Silver Member, I am really disappointed in your wisdom.

[KateSpade83]

Not having a beautiful woman's voice is one reason why I wouldn't have a sex change. My femme voice is passable enough but sounds a little goofy.

As for beard shadow, carry a Braun electric shaver in your purse; it's partly battery powered so you can touch up anytime.

[Stephenie S]

Oh dear. I seem to have ruffled a few feathers.

Sorry. Not my intent.

But I do stand by my statements. The ONLY way to transition is to DO it. Until you do, you're not transitioned. Of course there is a period in between. But that period where you are going back and forth is a huge detriment to your progress. YOU HAVE TO DO IT. Put on your big girl panties and be responsible for who you are and what you are doing. Are you a woman? OK, then BE a woman. Remember? It's what's between your ears that's important. If you're NOT a woman, then what are you fooling around with transition for?

There IS a huge part of this that IS black and white. This is the part where you say, "Yes, I'm a woman".

Voice? Damage? Sure. If you are intent on raising you pitch significantly, your therapist is right. Take it easy. But sounding feminine has little to do with pitch. It has far more to do with inflection, tonality, vocabulary, and musicality. There are plenty of women with low voices just as there are plenty of women with high squeaky voices.

Your comments are totally inappropiate. There are many reasons why one would not be out full-time and can not use their female voice 24/7 such as in their job when they have not "come-out." Do you really expect for a military officer or a non-com who is commanding their troops in a combat zone to use their female voice? How about a radio announcer hired for his baratone voice, a professional football player, fireman, police officer, a prison guard in a male prison, and a lumber jack just to name a few occupations.

If you haven't "come out" you are not transitioned. You may be still thinking about it. You may be planning. You may be practicing. But there comes a time when you have to DO IT. You have to just DO it.

My comments were harsh. I said so. But they are not "totally inappropriate". They are MY comments, and there's a lot of truth in them. You don't need to get too upset with them if you don't agree. I don't mind. Take what you can and leave the rest. I am trying to teach here. You don't have to listen. You don't have to agree. I had no desire to insult you and I don't think I did. If you have been here long, you must be aware that I am free with my opinions. I am.

Yes, we all have our own way. I know many, many women who transitioned and every one did this a slightly different way. BUT the ones who are successful are the ones who actually DO it. Transition is an action. All the planning, wishing, hoping, wanting, talking, posting, arguing are for naught until you actually do it.

And I did say it was a rant, didn't I?

Stephie

[Katesback]

Good job Stephane. I could not say it better myself. Do it or dont but sitting around talking about something for months or years is a total waste of time and life.

[Jessinthesprings]

Some genetic women have to shave I might add.

KAtie

or should... i don't know how many times i've wondered why they have all that hair on their face when a 2 second razor job would eliminate that.

[Katesback]

Stepahnie is so correct. You have to do it and give it a 100% or you will simply be a tranny. You might not agree but I suspect Stephaine is post op and I am for sure. I suspect that those that dont agree with us are Pre op and truthfully I dont think they have a magic ball that gives them the insights we do.

Also I have to add something. Transition REALLY starts after you have SRS. I realize this is incomprehensible to a pre op girl (hell I didnt get it till after SRS either) but the fact is that everything you do pre op is with training wheels and after SRS your a woman and all of a sudden the REAL work Begins because the training wheels are GONE and you have to live with the finality that you are done with the big step and you have to actually learn to be a real woman instead of a tranny.

You can certainly not agree with Stephaine and I but then the fact of the matter is that what we are saying is VERY serious and real. WE are not here under the guise of "support" (perpetuating disfunction). We are not here to hold your hand and tell you thats its all going to be ok to do a 50% job with transition. Personally I think that if that is your goal you would be better off in the crossdresser forum since they are all too often TS but unable to transition and hey misery loves company.

Katie

P.S. Spare me the accusations of bigot and negative comments. I realize that only a VERY small handful of people actually do transition let alone get SRS and the rest are dreamers. I am here to help the very small few that are DEAD serious, and the dreamers I will leave to "support each other". It is my small contribution to the TS world for most of my time is devoted to the general world and rollerderby.

[Jessinthesprings]

Stepahnie is so correct. You have to do it and give it a 100% or you will simply be a tranny. You might not agree but I suspect Stephaine is post op and I am for sure. I suspect that those that dont agree with us are Pre op and truthfully I dont think they have a magic ball that gives them the insights we do.

Also I have to add something. Transition REALLY starts after you have SRS. I realize this is incomprehensible to a pre op girl (hell I didnt get it till after SRS either) but the fact is that everything you do pre op is with training wheels and after SRS your a woman and all of a sudden the REAL work Begins because the training wheels are GONE and you have to live with the finality that you are done with the big step and you have to actually learn to be a real woman instead of a tranny.

You can certainly not agree with Stephaine and I but then the fact of the matter is that what we are saying is VERY serious and real. WE are not here under the guise of "support" (perpetuating disfunction). We are not here to hold your hand and tell you thats its all going to be ok to do a 50% job with transition. Personally I think that if that is your goal you would be better off in the crossdresser forum since they are all too often TS but unable to transition and hey misery loves company.

Katie

P.S. Spare me the accusations of bigot and negative comments. I realize that only a VERY small handful of people actually do transition let alone get SRS and the rest are dreamers. I am here to help the very small few that are DEAD serious, and the dreamers I will leave to "support each other". It is my small contribution to the TS world for most of my time is devoted to the general world and rollerderby.

You are right. To trasition is dead seriouse. It has cost many of us our lives or livelyhood if done for the wrong reasons... and even a few who did it for the right reasons because of the bigots.

I see your point about the training wheels, but I don't think someone who opts not to lose her job, and family to become compleatly full-time makes them any less a transexual than any other post-op. Yes, you've done more, but that does not make your plight any better/worse than any other. You simply have chosen to do what it takes. It shows a special kind of character that in many ways I envy.

[Katesback]

I never said that someone who does not give a 100% effort is NOT transsexual. The fact is that many never take on transition (see the posts in the CD forum). As I aid only a VERY small number decide to transition. It is what it is.

I have also known some post-op men that got the taco (SRS) and still lived some or most of thier lives as men. You want to talk about a miserable situation that has got to be the worse. Trutufully they are just another example of someone that was not willing to give a 100% effort towards transition and they paid the price being basically a mutant guy with a vagina.

[Stephenie S]

And as an aside, there are lots of military officers and non-coms with female sounding voices, even in combat zones. There are radio announcers, police, football players, prison guards and lumber jacks that have female sounding voices. They are called WOMEN, and I'll bet they would be upset if you told them they could not use their female voice 24/7.

All kidding aside, I did not mean to upset anyone. I am trying to teach. To lead. Sometimes I can be abrasive. I am well aware of that. I have gotten into trouble many times on this forum because of that. But what is important to remember is that I know what I am talking about. There is truth in what I say. Is it the only truth? No. Is it the truth for everyone? No. But there is truth in my words.

So as I said earlier, take what you can and leave the rest. But please don't take it personally. I have no desire or intent to offend, ever. If I did, you would know it for sure.

S

[CharleneT]

Just to be clear, yes, I am pre-op. Does that mean I have not a clue yet? Maybe, I can't tell you till I get to the other side of the coin. I definitely have no magic ball to tell me things I have not experienced. I *do* have several post-op friends. Here in town, about 1/2 a dozen. They all have different opinions about the when/where/how of transition. I do try and give advice, or answer a question, only from my perspective. Trying to avoid the temptation of "telling them how it is going to be ..." -- since I do not know (yet).

I stand by my words that it is too complex for a single answer to work for all.

But I do not think that helping people is always being dysfunctional ( which seems to be the belief of others). There is more than one way to skin a ghost, the "in your face, do it just as I say" works for some, but not for others. I thought the idea of "help" was to find a way to help the person. If you have only one way, you may find you cannot help some people with it.

As well, even though I'm pre-op, I live full time as a woman, I am a woman and if ya wanna tell me otherwise come on over and I'll pancake 'ya but good ( is that term still in use in Roller Derby? - I know it from the B&W TV days...). I do not do this 50%, I do this 120% if you want to know.

While I'm still pre-op, I can see a lot of "transitioning" by my friends after SRS. Most of them would agree that surgery does not end transition at all.

[Zenith]

I am going to chime in here as I am working on my voice after transition post SRS. It's not bad but I have to get it much better to have a chance at a stealth/move/life re-boot. Not an ideal situation, but that's how it turned out. As Charlene said...not all solutions work for all. And I am far from a "mutant guy with a vagina". :straightface:

Planning is a part of transition as much as doing...planning without action is futile but action without planning is fatal...

[MJ]

i am the mutant guy with a vagina, male voice and i shave everyday thats life for me.. and i'm fat and ugly as well

[Zenith]

i am the mutant guy with a vagina, male voice and i shave everyday thats life for me.. and i'm fat and ugly as well

You are not...:hugs:...I however am a mutant squirrel...btw when am I going to talk to you on the phone again...or see you again? :waiting:
Hmmmmmmmm????

[Stephenie S]

Gee, I know you guys can read. You're on a internet forum, for goodness sake.

A whole lot of the arguments and recriminations in this thread might have been avoided with a careful reading of each other's posting.

I am sorry that my post began such a confrontational exchange.

[JohnH]

I have determined personally for now I will not speak in a higher pitch should I go on MtF HRT. I will soften the voice and speak in a breathier manner and observe other female mannerisms, but it is still going to remain at essentially 90 Hz (about low F just touching the bass staff). Most men talk at about 120 Hz.

On second thought, I could raise the speaking pitch to about 130 Hz like Kathleen Turner without affecting my singing voice.

Johanna

[Stephenie S]

Yeah, but you're from Texas!

[JohnH]

I was thinking - a trans-woman could speak in her trained feminine voice the vast majority of time, but in a crunch she could yell with a loud masculine voice to scare the crap out of anybody!

Johanna

[Rianna Humble]

Stepahnie is so correct. You have to do it and give it a 100% or you will simply be a tranny. You might not agree but I suspect Stephaine is post op and I am for sure. I suspect that those that dont agree with us are Pre op and truthfully I dont think they have a magic ball that gives them the insights we do.

I wouldn't want a magic ball that makes me determined to insult as many people as possible whilst writing off the real support as "perpetuating dysfunction". I don't know what happened to you to make you take this attitude towards people in or on the cusp of transition, but until you get over it, your attitude will always mask any useful truth you might occasionally contribute.

The difference in attitude might explain why even when Stephenie says something abrasive we have less difficulty accepting the intention behind her words.

[Zenith]

:yt: BTW someone can disagree with Kate and Stephenie and be post-op...last time I checked my NeoVagina was still there...:D

[Eryn]

I was thinking - a trans-woman could speak in her trained feminine voice the vast majority of time, but in a crunch she could yell with a loud masculine voice to scare the crap out of anybody!

Wasn't that a gag in the movie "Tootsie"?

Taxi! Taxi! Taxi! [sound of screeching brakes]

[Stephanie Anne]

Stepahnie is so correct. You have to do it and give it a 100% or you will simply be a tranny. You might not agree but I suspect Stephaine is post op and I am for sure. I suspect that those that dont agree with us are Pre op and truthfully I dont think they have a magic ball that gives them the insights we do.

Also I have to add something. Transition REALLY starts after you have SRS. I realize this is incomprehensible to a pre op girl (hell I didnt get it till after SRS either) but the fact is that everything you do pre op is with training wheels and after SRS your a woman and all of a sudden the REAL work Begins because the training wheels are GONE and you have to live with the finality that you are done with the big step and you have to actually learn to be a real woman instead of a tranny.

You can certainly not agree with Stephaine and I but then the fact of the matter is that what we are saying is VERY serious and real. WE are not here under the guise of "support" (perpetuating disfunction). We are not here to hold your hand and tell you thats its all going to be ok to do a 50% job with transition. Personally I think that if that is your goal you would be better off in the crossdresser forum since they are all too often TS but unable to transition and hey misery loves company.

Katie

P.S. Spare me the accusations of bigot and negative comments. I realize that only a VERY small handful of people actually do transition let alone get SRS and the rest are dreamers. I am here to help the very small few that are DEAD serious, and the dreamers I will leave to "support each other". It is my small contribution to the TS world for most of my time is devoted to the general world and rollerderby.

Wow. I can't believe I agree with this. You are such an arrogant c**k I usually want to reach through the internet to slap you but this is so true. Don't get me wrong, I still feel you are really messed in the head but your words here, while as refined as broken glass, are true.

[JenniferZ2009]

For me I practiced my voice about 1 hour ever day for around 3 months before I went full time. What ended up happening was kinda weird and not even intentional. My voice slowly changed on its own and I did not even realize it and no one at work "noticed". When I went full-time at work everyone still felt like I was talking with my male voice because that was the voice I was using before I came out at work. When I showed one of my friends my "old" voice she was like "wow" it has changed. Before I came out at work I was partial-full-time.

I say use your voice all the time.

[Stephenie S]

"Use your voice all the time". Yup! It's got to be YOUR voice.

S

[Hope]

I wouldn't want a magic ball that makes me determined to insult as many people as possible whilst writing off the real support as "perpetuating dysfunction". I don't know what happened to you to make you take this attitude towards people in or on the cusp of transition, but until you get over it, your attitude will always mask any useful truth you might occasionally contribute.

The difference in attitude might explain why even when Stephenie says something abrasive we have less difficulty accepting the intention behind her words.

Exactly.

I am also not sure what it is with some girls, usually post-op, who insist that no one else will be able to do what they did, or if they do, they won't be able to do it properly. Though I suspect it has to do partially with regret and partially as a means of keeping her little club as exclusive as possible. I have come to the conclusion that Kate is just here for attention and to pee in everyone's cheerios. Haters gonna hate.

[Katesback]

Funny some of you draw such interesting conclusions about me. I will say that if your are someone insulted by text on an internet page then it is no wonder you aren't transitioning because you sure as heck cannot face the real world.

I will make an offer for any of you that seem to draw conclusions about me. You can personally send me a message and I will give you my phone number and we can have a little chat to clear up the misconceptions. I have offered this before but NOBODY has taken me up on it. Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmm..........

Katie

[Stephanie Anne]

Funny some of you draw such interesting conclusions about me. I will say that if your are someone insulted by text on an internet page then it is no wonder you aren't transitioning because you sure as heck cannot face the real world.

I will make an offer for any of you that seem to draw conclusions about me. You can personally send me a message and I will give you my phone number and we can have a little chat to clear up the misconceptions. I have offered this before but NOBODY has taken me up on it. Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmm..........

Katie
I'm sure you are an articulate person face to face but I do not like the way you go about expressing your beliefs. That being said, I offer the same to you. You see my facebook link. Feel free to add me as a friend and get to know me. I doubt we would even get along but I would not be resistant to such a thing. I even have my cell posted for friends. I don't expect people I do not know in person to have the nerve to call me but hey the same arrogance you have, I have in spades. I simply have the wherewithal to keep it in check.

I have not had SRS because I don't need to rush into it to run away from my past. I am letting myself actually transition and not rush. I also do not have the money lying around so I want to make sure I save up before doing something foolish like over extending my credit. If being fiscally responsible means I ma not a true woman then I guess I am not.

But back on topic. there are real reasons for hesitation to transition and develop a feminine voice. Once you start transitioning however, those reasons need to end.

[Rianna Humble]

Funny some of you draw such interesting conclusions about me. I will say that if your are someone insulted by text on an internet page then it is no wonder you aren't transitioning because you sure as heck cannot face the real world.

Although your words appear to be reacting to being told some truths about your behaviour, you obviously are not addressing them to me for two reasons:

1 I did not draw conclusions about your person, but rather about the attitude and condescension that you display by your words.

2 You address the words to someone who cannot face the real world

[Frances]

I have met a lot of trans women and the most succesful transitions I have seen were the ones where the trans women become women, regardless if they were living as males or not. That means softening up their entire persona, way of speaking, movements, vocabulary, etc., in order to bring together the two fragmented sides of their personnality (the boy and the girl). The ones that do not cut it in my opinion, and based on their rejection stories, are the ones who work on a female persona in parallel with the male one, hoping to instantly switch one day.

I agree with Stephenie and Kate on some points. From what I have witnessed (and put in practice myself), there can be only one You to truly make it.... one voice, one way of carrying yourself. I was very convincing as a male, but feminized my whole being gradually, so much so that nobody was overly shocked when I announced to everyone that I was trans and transitioning.

There is nothing wrong with feminizing your voice while living as a man and there is nothing wrong with speaking with a low pitch as a woman. Sounding like a woman has so little to do with pitch it is amazing. Watch Raging Bull (Cathy Moriarty) or Jewel of the Nile (Kathleen Turner) to get the point. The voice has a lot more to do with thought processes and a woman's interaction with the world. Want to sound female? CandiFLA has a lot of tricks, but the real trick is being one.

I hope that was not too harsh.

[Diane Elizabeth]

It sounds like there is a disagreement about when is a person in transition. That was not what this thread was intended to be. I just wanted to know about those that are living as a female 24/7 (pre or post op) that are working on there voice and/or still have hair to be removed. I am not to the point of going 24/7 yet (though I wish I could do it now), but I have a long ways to go with ridding the facial hair by electrolysis (too late foappt. or me). I have to let it grow for 2 days before each appt and I don't want to be seen as a bearded lady. I was not offended by Stephanie's remarks or Kate's. Thank you for all the attn given to the subject girls.

[Jorja]

Well I do have to disagree with Kate. Nowhere did I see training wheels. There used to be a kickstand though. :D

[Frances]

It sounds like there is a disagreement about when is a person in transition. That was not what this thread was intended to be. I just wanted to know about those that are living as a female 24/7 (pre or post op) that are working on there voice and/or still have hair to be removed.

Yes and yes, but I am a perfectionist.

[Jorja]

It sounds like there is a disagreement about when is a person in transition. That was not what this thread was intended to be. I just wanted to know about those that are living as a female 24/7 (pre or post op) that are working on there voice and/or still have hair to be removed. I am not to the point of going 24/7 yet (though I wish I could do it now), but I have a long ways to go with ridding the facial hair by electrolysis (too late foappt. or me). I have to let it grow for 2 days before each appt and I don't want to be seen as a bearded lady. I was not offended by Stephanie's remarks or Kate's. Thank you for all the attn given to the subject girls.

I believe, transition starts when one is in therapy and has made the decision to start hormones. The removal of facial hair is a part of transition. As for when one should start changing thier voice, it is up to the individual, today is not soon enough and yesterday is too late.

There are no set rules. If you decide today you are starting your transition, then today it is. If you have gone through puberty and your voice has deepened and you decide you want a female voice, then start training it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

its a mistake (excuse?) to say "my voice isn't ready, i can't go full time"...

Yes, practice makes perfect

but in our cases, doing it is the best practice (by far)

[Aprilrain]

and i'm fat and ugly as well

Fat and beautiful, darling

[Traci Elizabeth]

Kate! She's a frick'n "Roller Derby" Queen. Need I say more?

She spends her days/nights beating up other women for the fun of it. Need I say more?

I met a person once who called herself a Christan. Yet, if you did not believe and act EXACTLY as she did, she would state that you would burn in Hell through eternity. Does that sound familiar? Sure reminds me of our little miss "perfect" Katie.

She has no idea what she is talking about because some of the gals she has chastised are more feminine and beautiful in body and soul than our Ms Kate will ever be.

One last thing, just because someone has SRS does not make them a Woman. A woman is so much more than a vagina.

[Laura_Stephens]

A woman is so much more than a vagina.

Couldn't agree more!

[JohnH]

There is nothing wrong with feminizing your voice while living as a man and there is nothing wrong with speaking with a low pitch as a woman. Sounding like a woman has so little to do with pitch it is amazing. Watch Raging Bull (Cathy Moriarty) or Jewel of the Nile (Kathleen Turner) to get the point. The voice has a lot more to do with thought processes and a woman's interaction with the world. Want to sound female? CandiFLA has a lot of tricks, but the real trick is being one.


Glad you wrote that. I want to retain my singing voice pitch as a bass but speak in a feminine manner since I really like to sing and the bass register is where I feel most comfortable singing. Besides choirs have much more of a need for true basses rather than the usual baritones.

Added section: I heard Kathleen Turner on YouTube and I would have to raise the pitch of my speaking voice much less than if I were speaking like an average woman. I probably might get by without having to raise it even that much as long as I control the resonance by directing it toward the head instead of the chest.
[End added section]

My wife mentioned last night about my going on hormones. She said to me, "John, you really want to be a woman".

As far as facial hair is concerned my facial hair is reddish and grey. It is also not very dense. My facial skin is ruddy, so there is not much of a contrast between the facial hair and the skin. So I don't have a beard shadow for about 10 hours after I shave. So I can take my time in eliminating my facial hair and perhaps all I might need is a few laser sessions to make the facial hair more sparse. It's no big deal for me to shave in the morning.

Johanna

[Rianna Humble]

i'm fat and ugly

I think you meant "well proportioned and pretty".

I know I have had to contend with the aftermath of nearly 5 decades of self loathing and that certainly contributes nothng positive towards self awareness or self-acceptance, please don't make the same mistake as me.

[Stephenie S]

I think you meant "well proportioned and pretty".

I know I have had to contend with the aftermath of nearly 5 decades of self loathing and that certainly contributes nothng positive towards self awareness or self-acceptance, please don't make the same mistake as me.

Nicely said, Rianna, nicely said.

Stephie

[Hope]

You can personally send me a message and I will give you my phone number and we can have a little chat to clear up the misconceptions. I have offered this before but NOBODY has taken me up on it. Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmm..........

Have you perhaps considered that no one calls because no one wants to talk to you?

Hmmmmmmmmmm.....


She spends her days/nights beating up other women for the fun of it. Need I say more?

...

One last thing, just because someone has SRS does not make them a Woman. A woman is so much more than a vagina.

Word Word WORD.

[Stephenie S]

Come on Hope, cut her some slack. She is DOING it. You don't have to like her.

Stephie

[Katesback]

LOL Stephanie. So True. I really could care less what they think. Especially those that don't even have a picture. As I said in an earlier post I am only here to help SERIOUS people and I will leave the dreamers to "Support" each other.

[Stephenie S]

Katie dear, clear out your PM folder. (please) I can't send you a PM cause it's full.

Stephie

[Rianna Humble]

I am only here to help SERIOUS people

From that I conclude that you do not believe anyone here is serious - since you prefer to insult rather than to help

[Hope]

Come on Hope, cut her some slack. She is DOING it. You don't have to like her.

She gets slack when she stops being abusive to everyone here. Frankly, I have bitten my tongue MANY times. She has made it clear she doesn't need us, and God knows, no one needs her enumerating for us all the reasons us we won't succeed. Frankly she is worse than most of the people I encounter in my day-to-day life.

[Faith_G]

Have you perhaps considered that no one calls because no one wants to talk to you?

Hmmmmmmmmmm.....Post of the day! :D

[Zenith]

LOL Stephanie. So True. I really could care less what they think. Especially those that don't even have a picture. As I said in an earlier post I am only here to help SERIOUS people and I will leave the dreamers to "Support" each other.

I've met Hope and I assure you she is quite "SERIOUS"...:straightface:

[Pokergal420]

Hi

I just wanted to ask your opinion if you think not being able to have a passable voice would mean that I shouldnt transition.

[CharleneT]

I've met Hope and I assure you she is quite "SERIOUS"...:straightface:

Hey, I second that motion ! I've met Hope several times and she's quite the lady ! There are a host of reasons to not have a picture here, many are quite valid. Hope's are definitely in that category.


It amazes me, frequently, just how much we battle each other. The world is full of people ready and willing to knock us down, but we seem to knock each other more than the "cruel world" would. Why? Maybe we go too far at times in our efforts to help each other. There is no doubt that at times we should be more blunt with our opinions. Good help is often "hard help". Given that that is a difficult balance to maintain, I would rather err on the side of "too supportive" than otherwise.

[Aprilrain]

Hi

I just wanted to ask your opinion if you think not being able to have a passable voice would mean that I shouldnt transition.

That really depends on you. I've met girls who are post op and make no attempt whatsoever to feminize their voices and they seem happy with their choices. One girl I know knows this is a big drawback for her as far as work goes and it's not like she whines about it's just the truth. That being said she still has no interest in or perhaps is to afraid to feminize her voice. To each her own.
Anyway the point is are you going to hate your life after transition if your unwilling or unable to change your voice?