Is it a fetish? Can it be cured?

[Samantha X]

Hey y'all. Me again. I just wanted to update everyone on what has been going on since I last posted about my wife finding out. I read every post several times. I appreciate the good advice. After hearing from you I decided it would be the best idea to go with my wife to marriage counseling and see where that would take us. I really had a hard time not just breaking out of the waiting room door.

But it wasn't all bad. After hearing my wife unload on me about this for 20-30minutes the therapist asked me a few questions. I was truthful about how I feel which made my wife cry even more but I answered some way difficult questions. After all this I came away with a lot to think about. I saw a lot of things through my wife's eyes. I could see how poor of a husband I have been outside of the crossdressing issue. I'm lousy at communication. I'll admit I have a lot to work on. But that's not the reason for my post.

The therapist was 100% convinced that I have a satin/pantyhose fetish. He descibed it as no more than a sexual addiction. He says it is curable. He descibed using a 12 step program a lot like AA that he thinks would cure me. But he definitely told me that it is a sexual deviance. So how am I supposed to react to this?

I had a few thoughts after I left this guy. One, this started when I was 4 or 5 years old. I had no idea what sex even was then. How does that work? Next, other than just to keep my wife happy and save my marriage, I really don't want to be "cured". I realized I've been lying to my wife about this subject, but if this is part of who I am for the last 35+ years, won't denying this part of me be simply living a different lie?

So my questions, Is it a fetish, and can it be cured?

[Debglam]

Hi Samantha,

Was this therapist trained in gender issues? :2c: You probably need to talk to someone who "gets" this stuff to figure out where you are and then talk to a marriage counselor. Maybe the same person, maybe not.

Best of luck with this.
Debby

[Lucy_Bella]

Im sorry to tell you this..

Some therapist believe they can cure this so called fetish...I have never personally met anyone who has been cured and if it works give me his number.. I would see a professinal one who deals with Gender Identity issues..A therapist does not need a degree and is just mostly someone to whom you pay to talk to..

Go with the gut instinct but be fore warned it's best to deal with a pro.

[Stephanie Miller]

I agree with Deb. I would check to see how trained this counciler is in TG issues. I have done many Outreach programs with groups of councilers that had not been up to speed or had really no actuall training at all in this field. Find out the facts. Not saying this person isn't trained and that the advice given to you isn't correct - just check.

[Annie M]

Cured? are you sick? I don't think so. Some things just don't need to be "cured".

[Karren H]

I'm sure if you give him enough money then eventually you will be "cured". also knows as running out of money and not able to buy satin panties any more!! Lol.

[Lainie]

This one is not going to help you & your wife. :eek:

[Salina]

I think you should ask the therapist your questions. As a recovering alcoholic and drug addict who went through the AA and NA programs and has been sober for 16+ years, I will tell you I am not cured. I am still an alcoholic/addict, just a sober one. So your therapist is off base if he believes alcoholics/addicts get "cured". If I were cured I could drink responsibly. I do believe that if someone wants to bad enough they can stop crossdressing. I don't think that "cures" them of being a CD though. Only you can answer the question of whether you have a satin/pantyhose fetish.

[aliceeliot]

I don't wish to slag off 'Therapists', but to assume you have a 'fetish' that can be 'cured' seems a bit presumptuous to me.

In my opinion, crossdessing is a life-style choice not a disease that can be cured.

I may annoy some people with this comment, but I think the only thing your therapist sees is dollar signs.

Alice

[suchacutie]

I have to admit that this therapist seems to be confusing issues. I would suggest a separation of ideas:

1) Communication and understanding within the marriage apart from any transgenderism. Those are real issues that need to be worked on in any marriage. This is a good direction.

2) Transgenderism is not something to be solved or cured, unless you call understanding your feminine self a "solution". If he wants you to come to grips with your transgenderism, that's one thing, but if you started at age 4 or 5, how does the therapist possibly think this has anything to do with a fetish? I think that this is not the therapist for this area of your relationship issues.

just my 2cents.

tina

[kay2]

This sounds like a sadly simplistic analysis by a therapist with no training in such issues. I went to a therapist with an SO many years ago. We were working on some issues unrelated to the CDing. However, my SO brought up the CDing as an issue that concerned her. The therapist's response was to ask her why it concerned her so much.

The reality is, you can find a therapist to support any particular bias, and unfortunately you came upon one with a rather naive perspective on these issues. I would not go back to that therapist no matter what.

One might just as well ask, what would one think of a woman with the same attitudes towards clothing that you have? Presumably there would be no stigma.

[Bernadina]

Seems to me that this therapist is about to release a paper on "Fetish really is a Disease" that needs to to be hammered with toxic drugs. Voilla, richer therapist.

[AnnaCalliope]

Any therapist that tells you crossdressing/gender dysphoria/being transgendered is "curable", is either very naive, or lying through their teeth. There is no cure, magic pill, medication or radical therapy that will change the feelings we all have about wanting to wear women's clothing or be female. Its entrenched far to deep into our minds for anything short of maybe a lobotomy to get rid of.

Its been said many times already, and I will reinforce it here: FIND A NEW THERAPIST.

[Alice B]

In my opinion he is not qualified to deal with gender issues. "curable". I don't think so.

[Jenny Gurl]

Your therapist is mistaken in my opinion. I have read several posts on this site and would consider it a lot more realistic sample of real crossdresser information. I can tell you I was born this way. I denied it myself, telling myself it was a fetish, I will grow out of it, the right woman will make it go away, etc, etc. Due to the increased difficulty in society with this I would have loved for it to go away a few years ago, until I found this discussion forum. This forum helped me understand that I can't' get rid of my fem side without losing many of the good personal traits that make me who I am. I'm not crazy and neither are you. Your therapist is not familiar with gender issues, and I would highly recommend you don't see this particular one again. He will only support your SO opinion that it is a curable fetish and it is not. This will only solidify in your SO mind that she was right and that you choose to do these things and it is curable. You need a real licensed therapist who is familiar with gender issues. A real therapist will help you figure this thing out, then help your SO understand it. After you both understand it is not curable, the only thing left is to determine boundaries you can both live with. This is my opinion, I am not a licensed therapist, but I did sleep at a holiday inn express. A local tri ess support group may be able to recommend one or you can just google gender identity therapist and your state and you may get some numbers. You always have our support here.

[Cassandra Lynn]

As to your main question, without bonified proof that we can be cured in any manner, i'd say that i agree with all the suggestions of looking for another more qualified theapist.

But i have another thought here, and your comment about living a different lie brought it to mind. If you both carry on with this therapist and your wife thinks you'll be cured you will indeed be carrying on a self perpetuating lie.
I too am a recovering alcoholic and Salina is right we will never be cured, we medicate through the 12 steps, but the disease remains. That this wannabe would make that comment is a glaring indicator of his qualifications.
Btw, and this is IMO, i'm also not comfortable with this guy likening CD/TG, or gender issues of any kind to substance abuse, but that as they say is another thread.

Cassie

[TGMarla]

:BS:

How ridiculous!

Sexual deviation? Look, the word "deviate" (v) means to go against the flow of the stream...to differ from the norm. I'm not arguing about crossdressing being "normal". Since most people don't do it, that means it's not normal. But left-handedness is not normal either. So that must make left-handed people "physio-deviant".

You boil this all down to gravy, there are people who just like certain things more than other things. But no one told some of us that we had to choose from one list, and not the other. Women like clothing in certain styles and and certain fabrics. I like knit acrylic, for instance, but that's bad because I'm not really a woman. It's okay for some people to like knit acrylic and not others? Men can't like lace because only women can wear it? Men like it, too, or they wouldn't tell their women that they look pretty when they wear lace. So we approach clothing likes and dislikes way differently than we approach other things, like food for instance. Some people like broccoli; some like Brussels sprouts. Most people like tomatoes; I'm not crazy about them fresh. But I love everything you can do with them. Cars? People love Corvettes, but frankly, I'm not crazy about them. You want one? Go ahead. I prefer the Cobra, or a GTO.... I found out a long time ago that despite the fact that I'm a guy, I really like feminine things, and I really love wearing dresses. Hey, not my fault! I'm just wired that way. You can't force yourself to like some things and not others.

So that therapist telling you that you can be "cured", what is that? Is he going to "retrain" your brain so that you don't like satin or pantyhose anymore? So if you go out on the town, and your wife puts on some silky hosiery and a satin dress, that you're no longer going to appreciate it? Or is it that you just won't wonder what it feels like to wear it yourself anymore? How's he going to do that? Hypnosis?

Maybe you should stand up for yourself, since it's all out of the bag now anyway. You're not some "deviant". You're just you, and you're not a bad person. You may need to communicate better, but that has nothing to do with your so-called "fetish". If you and your wife, after all this is out in the open, still want to work on your relationship, you'd better get your ground rules in along with everyone else's. Seems to me that you're being given the ultimatum, while the choice is clearly hers, not yours. Nothing is ever going to get you to not like satin and pantyhose. If you want to curb your crossdressing, that's up to you. But you have to want to curb it. If you just try and artificially supress it, you'll be unhappy and frustrated, chasing an ideal that you will never truly enjoy. My advice to you is to try and explain to her how you really feel about everything, and try and reach some suitable compromise that works for the two of you. It may mean that you'll keep your activities private, or it may not. But just brainwashing yourself into "curing" your "sexual deviancy" is not the way to go about things. If you pursue that path, you will regret it forever.

:2c:

[sometimes_miss]

Is it a fetish
For some, yes, for others, no.

and can it be cured?
No.

[Debb]

Maybe this therapist can be "cured" of his illness ... the one that makes him assume, after fifty minutes, that you have a fetish that can be "cured".

I wouldn't try to cure him, though. Just let him know of his illness. :D

[Cynthia Anne]

Oh yes it's a fetish and a sex thing! I had this FETISH and knew all about sex when I was four so did my grandson at that age! NOT!!!!!!

[herwannabe]

I suppose it is a fetish since I really enjoy crossdressing and as much as I enjoy it then it must be a fetish. As for a cure, I would have to want to be cured for a cure to work and besides that We are not the ones that are sick, They are!
I have been to numerous shrinks ( for other reasons) over the course of my 57 year life time and I have come to the conclusion that most do not have a clue as to what the hell they are talking about unless they specialize in a certain area. A marriage counselor knows about marriages but not a damn thing about Crossdressing, so my unbiased opinion to keep the family together see the right type of therapist then maybe you and you SO can come to an understanding because I feel that there is no cure for CDing

Michelle

[Being Paige]

Hmm, so what is a left handed cross dresser! just wondering. LOL
seriously, I think you went to the wrong type of therapist to talk about this. Also I think that if your going to go to a therapist you should start by going alone and then get your wife to join in after a few meetings. Just my thoughts

[giuseppina]

This "therapist" probably doesn't have much if any experience with gender issues. I don't think (s)he is the right therapist for you and your wife from the sounds of things. :sad:

Crossdressing is almost always for life.

[Cynthia Anne]

[QUOTE=Being Paige;2401193]Hmm, so what is a left handed cross dresser! just wondering. LOL
I think a left handed cross dresser is a pertty nice girl! Cause I happen to be one! But what do I know!

[docrobbysherry]

U haven't given us enuff information to properly answer!:straightface:

If you've been getting TURNED ON by wearing satin, hose, etc. I believe your therapist may be correct! U HAVE a fetish! Which in fact MAY BE deviant from the norm!:brolleyes:
Of course, that also may just be the tip of the CD iceberg!

If u DON'T get turned on by wearing those things, I must agree with the other posters, you r seeing the WRONG COUNSELOR!:sad:

However, if u DO simply have a dressing fetish and nothing more, I believe it MAY BE CURABLE!:eek:

I had a strong bondage fetish that virtually disappeared!:)
Now, I find out Sherry's suddenly getting interested in it!:Angry3:

[Pythos]

You see, the moment he mentioned "12 step", I would have been out the door.

12 step is just transferring one "addiction" for another. And I am sorry, you liking silk panties and hosiery IS NOT AN ADDICTION. It is a preference.

It sounds like your therapist needs to concentrate on your lack of communications in the relationship, as long as that communications only lacks in stuff outside of your CDing.

[SweetPea_GG]

I had a few thoughts after I left this guy. One, this started when I was 4 or 5 years old. I had no idea what sex even was then. How does that work? Next, other than just to keep my wife happy and save my marriage, I really don't want to be "cured". I realized I've been lying to my wife about this subject, but if this is part of who I am for the last 35+ years, won't denying this part of me be simply living a different lie?

So my questions, Is it a fetish, and can it be cured?

Just my POV as a GG

You may not have known what sex was when you started finding what you liked in clothing as in touch and feel.. but as a young child you knew what felt good to you. Its not necessary the "sex" behind it all but what feels good to you at the time at that age.

I do not think there is a cure for CDing but I do think that maybe for some it can be "tamed" or even stopped for periods of time (how long really depends on the person) but I do think that its not cured.. cause like others have said in the forum before no matter how long you stop even if its for a lifetime once a CDer always a CDer.. just like thoes who go through AA and stuff.. they arnt cured they just find other coping measures for their addictions.

As far as this being part of you for the last 35yrs and denying it now.. I dont think you have to deny who you are but since you are in a marriage and you love you wife at some point you are going to have to have this conversation with her and maybe the both of you can work out some kind of agreement. You dont have to deny who you are but you do have to take into consideration your wife.. that might mean making some compromises on your part too.

[ReineD]

The therapist was 100% convinced that I have a satin/pantyhose fetish. He descibed it as no more than a sexual addiction. He says it is curable. He descibed using a 12 step program a lot like AA that he thinks would cure me. But he definitely told me that it is a sexual deviance. So how am I supposed to react to this?

Your therapist is very narrow in his definitions. Can you find someone different who is familiar with trans issues?

As to being a bad husband, it takes two people to communicate and I hate to say this, but we have a 50% divorce rate in this country for the very reason that many people do not have well-developed relationship skills. There are tons of books in the self-help sections of bookstores on building these skills and it might be good for you and your wife to go together and choose one that you both thinks makes sense. :)

[GaleWarning]

Crossdressing is not an illness. You do not need a therapist. What is needed is a lot of communication between you and your wife only, leading to self-acceptance on both sides.
Save the money you are planning to spend on therapy and buy your wife some jewellery, then take off on a holiday somewhere.

[sissystephanie]

You could very easily have a satin/pantyhose fetish! You certainly wouldn't be the first man to have that particular fetish, nor the last. And yes, if you really like them that well then it is a fetish, not just a preference!!

As for stopping, or being "cured" as the Therapist said, it can happen. But probably not the way he indicated! He would get a lot of your money, but probably would not achieve very much. The only way YOU can stop crossdressing is if YOU want to!!! Crossdressing is in your mind, and only you can get it out. I don't think you want to do that, so the only alternative is to work with your wife! You need to show her, by your actions, that you are still her man no matter what you wear! If you cannot do that, you probably will lose her!! She married a man, not a female!! And she wants you to be her man! You can do that, and still crossdress, as long as she knows that you are always her man. I spent almost 50 years with my late wife, being fully supported as a crossdresser the entire time. I told he that i was a CD when I proposed to her, and she accepted me! She always knew that I was her man, even when I was wearing silk or satin things. I should add that I have never had any desire to be a woman, I just like to dress like one!! If you want to keep your wife, you have to get her to feel the way my wife did!! Best of luck to both of you!!

[MsJanessa]

Can it be "cured"---Meaning can you stop yourself from doing it? I suppose you can but you will be miserable---and unlike drug and alchohol addiction, which have negative consequences on your health and ability to function as a responsible adult--why would you want to be "cured" of wearing satin and silk? My thought is that this guy is a fraud---I've been a recovering alcoholic for 15 years and been around 12 step programs for a long time. I've never heard of a 12 step program for TG and/or CDs---doubt that one exists---how did you find this guy anyway, and what are his qualifications for counseling on gender related issues?

[Schatten Lupus]

As someone who is going to school to be a therapist, my opinion is to get a second opinion. It is fairly normal for men to have sexual fetishes about wearing a pair of panties or whatever. And be honest with yourself. What about this needs to be cured? It is not harming your body, it is healthy to express your sexuality, and we don't tell people who get off on wearing leather to seek therapy to be cured. AA is a group therapy for people who have a mental dependency to a substance that extremely harmful when abused. Cross dressing has always existed, and some cultures even held trans gendered individuals in high regard. And cross gender behavior is not exclusive to humans.
There are the social problems that can be damaging, and should be considered when making a decision if you want to express this side of yourself. Honestly if you don't get very nervous, anxious, and worried about the future of expressing this side of yourself, you aren't thinking into it enough.
But ultimately it comes down to what you want. Your wife is her own individual, and she may grow to accept your crossdressing, or she may not. And if she doesn't, you have to decide if you want to suppress what really is a part of your identity in this relationship (I'm not trying to sway you by saying it's a part of you, I am just being up-front and honest about it), or if you want to express that part of yourself and move on.

[juno]

Is it a fetish? Yes, if it gives you sexual gratification, but that doesn't make it wrong. Many people have fetishes. Most men like lingerie, which is a common and socially acceptable fetish.

Can it be cured? Yes. You can learn to quit almost anything. That doesn't mean it is a choice that is beneficial to your physical or mental health.

It is important to do things in life that you enjoy and make life worth living. If you are obsessed with it, then work on moderation. There is no reason to give it up completely.

[ReineD]

AA is a group therapy for people who have a mental dependency to a substance that extremely harmful when abused.

I just want to say there are many other 12 Step groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_twelve-step_groups). AA was the grand daddy of them all, but many groups now deal with compulsive behaviors too. Not just physical addictions.

I also want to correct something that Pythos said, about replacing one dependency with another when joining a 12 Step group. If Pythos had attended a 12 Step group for any length of time, he wouldn't say this. Although 12 Step groups aren't for everyone (many people object to their spiritual -not religious- nature), they've been highly effective in helping millions of people with their addictions and compulsions. I attended one myself for a number of years, although I don't anymore, other than to see old friends.

[Schatten Lupus]

I just want to say there are many other 12 Step groups. AA was the grand daddy of them all, but many groups now deal with compulsive behaviors too. Not just physical addictions.
I am aware of this. However AA was mentioned in the OP.

[sandra-leigh]

Some people struggle to give up comforting thing for 40 days "for Lent". I have no problem giving up such comforting things for a year, for 20 years, for more than 30 years. I have never once been drunk; I have never once consumed even a full glass of wine. I went to a casino, set myself a $5 spending limit, played the nickle (5 cent) slots, and quit when I got ahead by $4.35 rather than risk losing my winnings.

I am, in other words, pretty much the opposite of "poor impulse control" -- but denying my crossdressing literally makes me sick. Sick enough to be on partial disability at work.

There is a difference between "erotic" and "fetish". Has cross-dressing ever been erotic for me? Yes. Have I ever needed it for sexual performance? No.

There is an erotic stories site that I sometimes visit. I rarely read the crossdressing stories; the only ones of those types that I recall ever having enjoyed was a series of true stories about a couple co-discovering the husband's crossdressing. The crossdressing fantasy stories are generally quite boring to me. I would far rather read the romance stories -- and I usually skim the sex scenes. If crossdressing is a "fetish" for me, it sure has a funny way of making itself known.

[DonniDarkness]

The real issue is not whether it is a curable fetish or not....The real issue behind it all, is whether or not you two can co-exist with each other.

That needs to be the topic in the forefront with you counselor.

Love and Appreciate each other for who you are as individuals.

-Donni-

[Tybalt]

Someone may have pointed this out and don't take it as a direct comparison,
do you remember when being gay was an illness?
Some people like only black clothes, I suppose that's a problem too then?
Further more anyone using a 12 step program has to want to do it or it won't work.

[Sophie86]

My questions for the therapist would be:

A) What's wrong with having a fetish, as long as I'm not hurting anyone?

B) Do you think that any sexual turn on is a fetish?

C) Do you think that the fact that I get turned on by dressing means that there is no underlying gender identity issue that you can't solve with a 12-step program?

D) Do you think that there is no important spiritual value that I might be trying to gain from sometimes experiencing sex (or life in general) as a woman?

E) How would you like to take a long walk on a short pier?

The problem you are going to have now, though, is that your wife has an authority on her side who says that you can be cured. If you can't convince her that he is wrong and you don't go along with the program, then she will always believe that you rejected the cure that was offered to you. You're now between a rock and a hard place, and I don't envy you one bit. Unless you want to go along with this guy, you are going to have to tell them both very firmly that you are happy as you are and you do not wish to be cured--that you will do anything else to improve you marriage except that. Good luck!

[danielletorresani]

I have to say that crossdressing is not the same for everyone. For many on this board, it is a gender identity issue, an outward expression of your inner desire to feel or be female. For me, however, it's purely sexual. Dressing up to me was synonomous with pleasuring myself. I had a HUGE case of pink fog over my brain for about a year and a half, but I was doing it so much that I came to a point that it just seemed like too much work, and so I purged and haven't had the desire to dress up again for almost a year now. I have been on and off with this my whole life, so I realize that this may not be a permanent thing for me, but I can say that it's never felt as permanent in my head as it does now. I feel like I experienced just about everything I could while dressed up, or at least everything I wanted to and now for me the thrill is gone. Sometimes I feel like I have an urge to do it...truthfully I came very close to doing it again a few weeks ago, but then I realized it was like I was just going through the motions....crossdressing, at least at this point, is a phantom limb for me. Whenever I do think about doing it, it's like I'm wanting to scratch an imaginary itch.

All that being said, I have to disagree with some on here saying it's incurable. For those that crossdress out of a gender identity issue, you're probably right, but it's not a gender identity issue for some. I started crossdressing when I was young because I was absolutely crazy for women in lingerie, and over time I was just as turned on my lingerie as I was by the women wearing them. I have a lingerie and stockings fetish and that's why I crossdressed, NOT because I feel like I was meant to be born a woman or anything like that.

For those of us that crossdress purely out of fetish....Yes. It can be cured.

Oh, and one more thing, many say that this isn't something that should NEED to be cured. To that I must also disagree. Anything....ANYTHING can be harmful if one is obsessed by or addicted to it. It was harmful to me at one point because it was all I thought about...to the point that my work performance was suffering as well as my marriage. An addiction is almost always unhealthy, no matter how harmless the subject of that addiction may be in and of itself.

[Olivia2]

I agree with Donni and to some degree with Danielle. As long as it can be worked out between you and your wife and your marriage can be mutually fulfilling and nurturing, then what does it matter.

If the "fetish", if that is what it is, is so consuming that it prevents you from making the relationship a priority, than maybe it should be looked at. In any case, if you decide it is a fetish, it probably can be controlled and abstained from, but for the therapist to say it is curable seems a bit presumptuous and uninformed IMO. I would be curious to know how much experience the therapist has with sexual issues in addition to TG issues, which are two separate matters entirely.

[2SpeedTranny]

Cured?

Modern medical science is allegedly looking -- still! -- for a cure for the easiest problems in the world, like cancer, diabetes, and such. Homeopaths, of course, have been curing these illnesses for a hundred years, but modern medicine still holds wonderfully profitable fundraisers.

That word really makes me itch.

"Cured" of liking soft fabrics. Wow. What does this douchebag propose? Electroshock therapy? Lobotomy?

Fire this waste of oxygen, yesterday.

[CherryZips]

If the therapist talks about coming to an understanding, coping with conflicting desires, dealing with each others sexual needs, managing your needs to express feminine qualities then that's fine.

If he says he can cure you then he's a fraud. If he can change people's core traits that easily he would have solved decades of psychological science and would be world famous scientist.

Of course saying he can cure you will go down well with your wife and his bank manager but it will ultimately give both of you a false hope. Both of you need to deal with the reality that this is a core part of you. You can give it up for years but its still a intimate part of your identity. I'd love the therapist to come and talk to us here.

[Kate Simmons]

Those questions can only be answered by the person asking them.:)

[Jenny Gurl]

The problem you are going to have now, though, is that your wife has an authority on her side who says that you can be cured. If you can't convince her that he is wrong and you don't go along with the program, then she will always believe that you rejected the cure that was offered to you. You're now between a rock and a hard place, and I don't envy you one bit. Unless you want to go along with this guy, you are going to have to tell them both very firmly that you are happy as you are and you do not wish to be cured--that you will do anything else to improve you marriage except that. Good luck!



Very well said. The problem now is that your wife does not understand crossdressing at all, and some quack has told her that you are choosing this and he can cure it for a price. The real trick at this point will be getting away from this therapist and onto one who is qualified without your wife thinking you are "doctor shopping" for a therapist that will take your side. My recommendation is that since this "therapist" has called it a fetish, then you should find a qualified therapist who specializes in gender issues to help you overcome this fetish. After all, when your general physician diagnoses you with a heart problem he doesn't perform the surgery, there are specialists in that specific area that does that. You mechanic tells you your transmission is bad you take it to someone who specializes in transmissions. Of course we all know the truth is it is not curable, but your appearance to find a specialist to help you may get your wife on board with changing therapists. Normally I am not a person who would suggest lieing to a SO, but in this case you are actually trying to show her the truth.
Once you have a good therapist who can help you determine what your real needs are, your wife can then understand that it is what it is, and make an informed decision at that time if she wants to try and work it out. Until she understands it is simply something your were born with and will die with, she will believe you are choosing it over her, and this is not true. That alone may change the way she feels about you, and her willingness to work through this. Just make sure you preshop for a good therapist with gender issue experience. I mentioned earlier about checking if there is a local Tri-Ess group you can find. They may be able to recommend a good therapist some members have used who will help you. If you get a second quack, it may be impossible to fix this. Here is a link to Tri-ess, under the chapters tab you can look for a local group. Even if you can't find a Tri-ess support goup close to you, you can call them and they may be able to network a little and recommend a good therapist in your area. I wish you all the best. http://www.tri-ess.org/

[t-girlxsophie]

I think you are seeing the wrong professional,I would imagine that crossdressing issues wouldnt be in the top twenty relationship problems a marriage councillor would come across,I think you should see someone with more knowledge of TG issues,It concerns me enough that this councillor believes alcoholism can be "cured" never mind crossdressing,My Uncle drank himself almost into oblivion he stopped drinking 20yrs ago but as he has told us he is not cured,he is a recovering alcoholic one drink away from falling back off the wagon.So if that is an example of this therapists "professional" opinion then I have to agree with other posters that you and your wife should go elsewhere

[Jay Cee]

Can it be "cured"---Meaning can you stop yourself from doing it? I suppose you can but you will be miserable---and unlike drug and alchohol addiction, which have negative consequences on your health and ability to function as a responsible adult--why would you want to be "cured" of wearing satin and silk?...

Pretty much what I was going to say. CD'ing can be harmful, but not anywhere near the level of drugs and alcohol.

I think it is more a perception thing. A wife finds out her husband is different than she originally thought. Her views on CD'ing are probably not favourable (thanks to society, family, and/or religion). She wants to maintain the status quo, and wants her hubby "cured".

Crossdressing is NOT an illness.

Time to find a therapist who knows what the hell he or she is talking about.

[Megan70]

O.K. Short and sweet and repeated on this forum a million times:
Crossdressing and cured will never be used in the same sentence .... ever.No philosphies,no deep thinking, no rockest science.
NEVER!

[Pythos]

Is it a fetish? Does it matter? Can it be cured? Does it need to be?

Here is another area that I get perturbed by. First off, I am not a fan of the word fetish. Our culture has perverted it in such a manner it has become a "bad" thing. In ancient times "fetishes" were a part of the culture and were not hidden away like they are in this one.

As with most things for me the question should be "does this fetish physically harm myself, or anyone I know?" That is the question that needs more concern. Not whether if it is merely a fetish.

[NicoleScott]

Bad news. The therapist just bought a new BMW. Now, to be cured you must complete the 18-step program.

Seriously, Samantha, can't you determine what it is that drives your crossdressing? Shouldn't you know if you have a fetish? I do, and I've known it, even before I knew what a fetish was. I've always known that I was a male who just liked to occasionally dress up, and certain things were the focus of those dressup sessions.

Do gender identity expert therapists cure their clients of their gender dysphoria? Or do they help them accept, and get through issues that negatively affect normal life? Why would a gender identity expert think that gender identity crossdressing is not an affliction that can/should/must be cured, but fetish based crossdressing is? I'm skeptical. The therapist either: knows more than actual crossdressers, doesn't know beans, or has an agenda (her side-all your fault-get cured-I can help-going to take $everal $tep$).

[Pythos]

My statement concerning the 12 step programs was based on knowledge I have acquired about them. I have only heard that these things take place near churches, usually church group do them. I have heard that several of the people drop out, or some become "jesus freaks". Your saying "spiritual- not religious - nature" is honestly new to me. I have not heard of them as being spiritual, but in fact quite religious.

It may just be the area I am in, and of the ones I have heard of.

anyway, have you ever heard of a 12 step program for linking certain fabrics and styles?

[Jenna J]

Well, I might as well add to this thread too. My wife knew about my dressing long before we got married, back when we both thought it was a "fetish". I too thought that it would go away once I was married, but it kept resurfacing and I kept it hidden. I finally told her and we went to councelling to save our marriage. We went through a few therapists until we found one that knew what she was doing. That, is where my advice to you comes... first, you need to find one you BOTH are comfortable with. Second, I think it is important that it is a woman therapist. Your wife will trust what a woman says over a man, especially at this time. That is what saved my marriage. We are still figuring out boundaries and getting used to who I really am, and that it is NOT a fetish that can go away. Just a thought...

[Natalie Wood]

I see some similarities in what I have gone through and what you have gone through. So I thought I would share. I too started cd'ing at a young age. I am 37 now, married 11 yrs and have 2 children. I recently came out to my wife about 6 months ago. It was terrifying and liberating at the same time. To my surprise my wife's biggest issue was that I was living in darkness for so long. Many of her emotional breakdowns were because she felt bad that I had to deal with this all alone for so long. However, it did take weeks b4 we were able to get a handle on what was happening with everything.

Something that helped my wife that you may want to suggest to your wife is to read some books, such as "My Husband Wears my Clothes" and "Crossdressing with Dignity." It has helped both my wife and I understand better what we are dealing with. The author Peggy ? I believe is a bonified expert on the subject. She has done a lot of research.

We are a middle class family in the Chicago Suburbs. We have no agenda related to Cd'ing except to live happily together and raise our children the best that we can. When I mentioned your troubles to my wife she immediately offered to communicate with your wife via email if she needed someone to talk to that has/is going through a similar situation. I also think that she can get some good feedback and information here. Good luck.

[Xenia]

See, the term "fetish," in a clinical sense, has a very specific definition, i.e., an object that causes sexual arousal, usually (and this is the key part) to the point that the person in unable to become aroused unless that particular object is involved. Obviously, this can be problematic if one's sexual partner isn't into the same thing, which is why people talk about treating fetishes. Transvestic fetishism certainly exists, but is only one of a very large number of known fetishes. If the above definition sounds like you, then yeah, you have a fetish......but based on what you wrote in your other post, that wouldn't be my armchair diagnosis (disclaimer: I'm a radiologist, not a psychiatrist. :))

Can a fetish be cured? It depends on what you mean by "cured." If a person has a fetish for pantyhose, or stiletto heels, or banana cream pies, or whatever, then there's probably no treatment that's going to cause them to stop being aroused by such things. What treatment can do (at least theoretically) is weaken the association between the object and arousal, so that one can become aroused in the absence of the fetish object.

[linnea]

It is really not possible for me (or anyone else on the forum) to diagnose your condition (unless there are individuals with professional training and experience, and unless we have more information). We can give you moral support, as several have already done.
As far as advice goes, you've also received quite a bit of that too. I would share the view that you need to consult a professional who has experience, knowledge, and training with gender issues. The "fetish/cured" ideas smack of old beliefs and approaches to gender issues, especially the "cured" part. There is a load of evidence that suggests that genderism is not a "curable" condition but an inherently genetic manifestation. Other factors also influence ones development--environment, opportunity, etc. So take heart and seek additional professional counsel.

[Stephanie47]

Samantha, I went back and read your other posting about being screwed because your wife found out about your cross-dressing. Now, I really think you're screwed. Your wife has now been told by a therapist that you can be 'cured.' This person is stating that you have an addiction that is curable. What's your wife going to do, if you are not cured? What are you going to do, if you are not 'cured.'? Hide everything and play along? If you ask your wife for a second opinion, are you screwed? Are you and her going to shop around like in TV court shows and line up therapists to support viewpoints? I started having interests in woman's clothing before I knew sex existed. I still do not know why? I can only guess? But, that was 55 Plus years ago. The only time I can truthfully say I had no yearning, desire, interest in cross-dressing was when I was in the military. Cross-dressing resurfaced when I was exposed to my beautiful wife, who I loved to adorn in lovely lingerie and well, get screwed in a way different than your previous posting.

Cross-dressing like any other activity can be a legitimate source of problems in a marriage. If somebody is spending all their free time on a 'hobby' and ignoring a spouse or performing household chores, raking the leaves, etc, then cross-dressing activity may NOT be healthy for the marriage. It is no different than going hunting every weekend or restoring a vintage car.

If a cross-dresser is draining the household funds buying feminine clothes, well, it's like restoring a car.

This therapist has condemned you to a hellish marriage, if your wife is now convinced your a deviant, etc. Now the question is what about your feelings? Are you going to stuff them in a box and put them on the top shelf of the closet and live in agony? If your wife will not let you have your cross-dressing time and you both establish some acceptable rules, then you will be living in hell. The therapist sounds like the same type of therapist who claims he can get the homosexuality out of gays and lesbians.

You need to find out if there is a level of acceptance or tolerance your wife will allow. If she is going to shove it in your face all the time, I'd consider getting out of the relationship. That would be mental abuse. Are you willing to endure decades more mental abuse?

My wife does not like my cross-dressing. I do not shove it in her face. It is DADT which is fine with me. In fact, the day before yesterday I was on this site in feminine clothing and somehow a pair of nylon white panties ended up under the computer table. She found them when she went to use the computer. She did not rant and rave. She tossed them into the hallway- no screaming or yelling. Whoops on my part.

[CarlaWestin]

The therapist was 100% convinced that I have a satin/pantyhose fetish. He descibed it as no more than a sexual addiction. He says it is curable. He descibed using a 12 step program a lot like AA that he thinks would cure me. But he definitely told me that it is a sexual deviance. So how am I supposed to react to this? Is it a fetish, and can it be cured?

So this "the-rapist" is 100% convinced you have a problem? Just what is his take on normal? Pulling fish out of the water with a stick while drunk? Going fast enough on two wheels to guarantee certain death? What if your shirt buttons were on the wrong side? Pervert! Work things out with your wife and if CD is non-negotiable, then stop. Marriage is compromise and that's all there is to it. Or you could just continue to give a lot of money to a trained monkey. I've so been through this farce.

[NicoleScott]

Crossdressing, fetish based or not, was never a problem for Samantha nor did it interfere with family responsibilities (see other Sam posts). The wife is the one with the problem with it. Her intolerance with a crossdressing husband is the issue. Maybe the therapist can cure her of this disease. What? It's not a disease? It can't be cured? There's no 12-step program for this?

[James Kaon]

Wow. Maybe he can cure me of liking some films like The Truman Show, or my love of playing and writing piano music... I love wearing lingerie too - I'm not sure I can differientiate this from just liking porn or spag bol. Sry but I would consider a cure MAY be needed when something is so wrong in you (physically or mentally) that it threatens your ability to function as a human in everyday life. I appreciate that guilt, stress etc could be included in this, but I only feel guilty and stressed because it may cause discomfort to my family because they may not understand or they probably have the same view society has. I have a fetish - im pretty sure. I dont think any amount of therapy would give any alternative that gives me a bigger kick :). OK, im talking too much - Ill just say this - I think your therapist sounds pretty weak.

J

[Salina]

Pythos, as one who attended many 12 step meetings, but hasn't in years I can tell you that many meetings are held in churches, but not affiliated with the church itself. The program has a spiritual, not religious base to it. Many people do drop out, the percentage of people who recover from drug and alcohol addiction is very low, in the single digits. My experience has been that folks who drop out tend to give excuses/reasons why, and the spiritual nature of the program which can be easily confused or misconstrued as religious is one of the top reasons. There are people who become "Jesus freaks", but a small percentage. There are people who become "Jesus freaks" in all walks of life. It sounds like your opinion is based on information from people who quit/dropped out/were exposed to zealous people who threw religion in their face....I can tell you many of my best friendships in life are people I met in 12 step meetings living sober, productive, lives. Thought you may like to hear from someone who had a positive experience.

As far as Samantha goes, I would think if he has any bit of self awareness that identifying whether it's a fetish would be relatively easy.

[ReineD]

The wife is the one with the problem with it. Her intolerance with a crossdressing husband is the issue. Maybe the therapist can cure her of this disease. What? It's not a disease? It can't be cured? There's no 12-step program for this?

Well, there are 12 Step programs for sexual compulsions, but I agree with you this is likely not Samantha's issue. She needs to find a therapist who is familiar with gender issues. As to the wife being intolerant ... we've gone through all of this in the other thread. Keep in mind we only do hear one side of the story here, plus, the wife is on a learning curve with this just as much as Samantha was earlier on when she asked herself the same questions that her wife is asking now:



I shared my internal struggle to figure out who or what I was during those hard teenage years. How I’d heard repeatedly that only perverts and homos engaged in such a disgusting behavior. And how if I liked dressing in women’s clothes then I must be gay or want to become a woman.

If Samantha was allowed to question herself and it took some time to reach a level of self-acceptance, surely her wife should be given the same consideration? They were both raised in the same society, with the same bias against the CDing. They are seeking help with a third party with this, which to me is an indication they are both interested in saving their marriage.

Give the wife a break, already, and let's just focus on helping Samantha.

[Pythos]

Hey Salina, that is really awesome to hear. Yes my view on 12 steps was kinda biased, and illinformed, or at least informed of one aspect.

Thank you for putting down your experience. I am sure the people I know of had an overzealous individual (s).

[Sometimes Steffi]

I believe that these are the official diagnostic definitions of fethishism and transvestic fethisism

Diagnostic criteria for 302.81 Fetishism

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving the use of nonliving objects (e.g., female undergarments).

B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

C. The fetish objects are not limited to articles of female clothing used in cross-dressing (as in Transvestic Fetishism) or devices designed for the purpose of tactile genital stimulation (e.g., a vibrator).


Diagnostic criteria for 302.3 Transvestic Fetishism

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, in a heterosexual male, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing.

B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

The letter categories and "ands" not "ors"

So, technically, according to the APA, you would seem to qualify as both under Category A, but, you don't qualify under Category B, since you don't seem to have any "distress or impairment in social functioning". So, going by the book, you display fetishic behaviors, but not distress, therefore you don't meet the clinical criteria.

You have unfortunately found the worst type of therapist: one who has mis-diagnosed you and one who thinks it can be cured. I don't think anyone reputable in the field believes it can be cured anymore than being gay can be cured. As was mentioned above, being gay was previously included as a "disease" in the prior DSM, but has since been removed.

I think your real problem now is that your wife thinks you can be cured. But just remember that there are medical professionals that are willing to take your money and give you "snake oil" to cure you of various incurable illnesses.

Fortunately, I found that my minister did not think it was a disease, nor did my marriage councelor or therapist. In fact, when I "interviewed" my current therapist I told her that I was interested in understanding why I did what I did, but I enjoyed it, and did not want to be cured. I did see another therapist for a time who was immediately convinced that I was gay. I decided pretty quickly that she was not terribly knowledgable in CD/TG/TS issues.

At the time my wife discovered that I crossdressed, I would have done just about anything to keep my marriage intact. Now, I still crossdressing while keeping it out of her face, but if she gave me an ultimatum to choose crossdressing or her, she might not get the answer she is expecting

[Frédérique]

Is it a fetish? Can it be cured?

No and NO. :hmph:

Save money on therapists and discuss things with actual crossdressers on this site – you’ll learn all you need to know. I think fetishes are involved within crossdressing (for many of us), more like a means to an end and not the ONLY thing going on, if you catch my drift…
:)

[Fab Karen]

The couples counseling would be good for those non-CD related issues ( like communication ). As for "being cured" if it IS just a sexual fetish ( clothes or anything used for sexual arousal), potentially you could be cured of that. You can tell the therapist what you told us, that this started at age 5, but it sounds like he might just respond with some blather about "being in denial." The best thing you can do is share openly with your wife about it & take time to listen to her feelings/fears. Some people in such relationships work out a compromise, and some end up splitting. Depends on the two people & what they'll both put up with.

[ziggie]

I'm not a therapist, but my SO is. I think Kittykitty makes a good point. Unless you disclosed a lot more to the therapist than you mentioned to us, that diagnosis was out of line.

[Kaz]

There seem to be a lot issues in this thread that also relate to a current thread questioning the role of therapists.

[Kate Lynn]

My thoughts on therapists is a very pointed one,if you give a therapist a colonic,they disappear.

I'm a veteran and for 40 years,on and off I have seen the rapists,according to them,everything is my fault,I was doing it to myself,one even said I dressed the way I do because I was suicidal,and wanted to be a murder victim,thats been my experiences with the rapists.

If ya'll wonering why I spelled it the rapist,I just broke it down,because thats how I see them,they rape the human mind,at least the government therapists do.

[LilSissyStevie]

The whole idea of "fetishes" is bogus, IMO. What we're talking about here is just different sexual preferences. If you can only enjoy sex while wearing a propeller hat and scuba flippers, you limit your potential partners but it doesn't harm anyone. It used to be that anything but coitus in the missionary position for purposes of procreation was a sin. The psychological profession took this cultural superstition, dressed it up in 'scientific' jargon and made any deviation from it into a "fetish" or "paraphilia." That position has been modified somewhat over the years but it's still where the professional bias against crossdressing comes from. I came across this paper (http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/BIB/paraphiliapre.htm) not too long ago by a noted sexologist that I think "Tells it like it is."

It seems to me that the problem between you and your wife is that you are not sexually compatible with each other. Maybe you can come to an arrangement that can save the relationship but there is nothing wrong with your sexual preferences and there is nothing wrong with hers either. Good luck.

[NicoleScott]

Reine, I agree with you. The deception issue was discussed in another thread. It's about going forward. I admit that my post was intentionally sarcastic. See what happens when one party is thrown under the bus. This thread is about Samantha's drive to crossdress: is it a fetish? Can it be cured? The consensus here is that the therapist was out of line by making an instant diagnosis and path for a cure. In my opinion, the answers to the two questions are: maybe (only Samantha knows), and no.

Unfortunately for Samantha (and wife), Stephanie really nails it:



Samantha, I went back and read your other posting about being screwed because your wife found out about your cross-dressing. Now, I really think you're screwed. Your wife has now been told by a therapist that you can be 'cured.' This person is stating that you have an addiction that is curable. What's your wife going to do, if you are not cured? What are you going to do, if you are not 'cured.'?

The only way I can see hope is to get a new therapist, and see if he/she can undo the damage done by the current therapist.

[ReineD]

Nicole, I agree. A therapist familiar with gender issues would help educate Samantha's wife, and hopefully would also help them both communicate effectively about the CDing.

[Proteus]

He seemed a bit too eager to jump to a conclusion for my taste.

In psychotherapy it's not the therapist's job to draw conclusion. It's to help you learn about yourself, so you can come up with your own solutions. Otherwise it's just a quack telling you what to do with your life and then charging for it.

[Ozark]

Down here, in Branson area, there are a lot of 'christian counselors', usually associated with either Assembly of God or Baptists. Also NARTH advocates down here.
Run away, run away from these people as fast as you can!