Could someone please explain to me

[StaceyJane]

Okay, I know that a post has been hijacked over the issue of presenting as female when seeing the doctor for therapy or HRT.

Now, I can certianly understand not going to therapy en femme because you are trying to find yourself and I can understand that it might be difficult to go to a doctors appointment en femme if you are going straight from work.
But don't most transsexuals want to present as female?

Now I'm not 24/7 but I try to go out en femme as much as possible. I really love it and for me the fact that I can feel so comfortable en femme really confirms that transitioning is right for me. I want to go to therapist and doctor's appointments en femme because basically I want to do everything en femme.

I know that some people are truely trans and don't feel comfortable going out en femme but starting hormones is a pretty bold statement and after just a little while a permanent statement. I just can't see how someone who doesn't feel comfortable presenting a female can say that they are ready to become one.

I'm not saying that they will never be ready but are they truely ready now?

So without any name calling I would like to hear how it is a good idea to start hormones without being able to regularly present as a female.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I have transitioned 24/7 so "en fem" is the only way I ever dress. After all I am a woman. How else am I suppose to dress?

[AllieSF]

I am not where you are and doubt that I will get there in this lifetime. That being said and based on all that I have read and discussed with others, including TS's pre and post op and late starters, I believe that it is very easy to be a woman internally and still have the fear to go en femme even for a short shopping trip or to a dark restaurant. Fear is fear and it affects everyone in some way. I know a TS that is still in the closet. You have always shown that you are a brave soul in your outings, but not all have your courage. I think the the 24/7/365 real life experience is a two fold process. One is to weed out the wanna be's who are not real TS's, and the other is to coerce/force/push those that are true TS's but are still deep in the closet to get the experience and to develop the courage to be able to go full time as a transitioned woman and deal with all the myriad of issues associated with that in the world outside of the comfort of their home. Just my thoughts on this.

[gretchen2]

For me it is very tricky, I have two modes of female and it really messes with my head at times. The mode I always want to be in is my social mode which is pure femme to me, which means that I do all of my day time chores and being social with others. Then there is my work mode which will not allow me to be ultra femme. I wear the female attire that is appropriate for a construction job site. Granted my nails are always painted and eye makeup, other than that no skirts, no wig for my follicle challenged head, and no foundation. I started hormones before any of this really happened. Was I truly ready, YES. As a matter of fact thirty years to late. The first time I went out en-femme I did not get that mega high that you hear about so often, I felt normal, oh this is how I am suppose to feel. So I think the answer to your question is yes, I think you can start hormones before you are comfortable presenting as female out in public.

[pamela_a]

Before you ask something like this you need to define what you consider "presenting as female". If you consider wearing only skirts/dresses and heels to be "presenting as female" that's one thing and I completely disagree with it. Defined as dressing/appearing as the vast majority of women in your area it's easy.

Regarding presenting female and transition my therapist told me I transitioned backwards. For several years before I even considered transitioning there was nothing male in my wardrobe. All of my clothing, pants and tops and foundation garments, were from the women's department and it was never an issue. None of it was overly feminine but it was the same as many other women were wearing. Except for my spouse I found that nobody cared. Doctors, my employer, people on the street never said a thing about it.

I'd had a full beard and mustache which I shaved off after almost 30 years. That was quite a shock to my, at that time, 28 year old daughter as I'd never been without one her entire life but you know what I found? Nobody else cared.

I started taking better care of myself and I styled my hair in a more feminine style and Nobody cared.

After several years of that I made the biggest change. I stopped pretending to be male and started allowing more of me to surface and people noticed. I started hearing "ma'am" from people and the pronouns changed. At that time I finally broke down and saw a therapist. 3 months later I started HRT and 1 month after that I transitioned at work and I've been full time since.

Starting HRT means only you may start seeing subtle changes in your body at some time down the road. If you're at that point you should also be taking the time to be preparing for those changes and how you're going to address them. Or you can start slowly changing now and when the time comes the changes from hormones are noticeable it won't be a big deal.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i can't agree with you stacey...i actually think you have it backwards.

of course its true that feeling comfortable presenting as female is a good thing if you are considering living as female...but its not a predictor of anything.
i think its incorrect to say a person that is uncomfortable dressing as a female should not start HRT..i know many go/slow type transitioners for example...and you are ignoring the concept that dealing with HRT first gives the transsexual person an outlet for her/his feelings...HRT before dressing is very typical...many girls do HRT just to relax with no plans to every dress...

as transition moves on, presenting female loses its meaning anyway...feeling comfortable in your presentation becomes a given...you accept on the INSIDE that you ARE female..and then deal with it..

the more transsexuals i meet, the more i realize how differently we all coped with our "problem" and how differently we approach our "solutions". .. dressing up and feeling comfortable in female presentation is only one piece of the puzzle, HRT is another...they are not dependent on each other....

[renee k]

Hi Stacy,
I think your spot on with your observations. I also think, as you mentioned, you have to be comfortable presenting as a female. Hormones add clarification to presenting female. The thing I want out of all this is getting my body in line with who I am mentally. And HRT is one step in that direction.

Renee

[TerryTerri]

I'm one who doesn't go in public dressed in femme (at least not yet). Several reasons:

One being that I don't live in a place I consider very progressive and I have fear (probably unfounded, but nevertheless present) for my physical safety.

I'm still uncertain whether I will transition or not. Numerous things have kept me from being able to get to the point of actually making a decision. I have thus far since starting my journey with all this (beginning at the point where I honestly realized I had a gender issue to begin with), gone through a divorce and 'reorganization' of my family. My ex-wife & mother of my 6 and 8 year old, has had health and emotional issues since we split up and I have often times been a full-time parent to our boys. That keeps me to busy to ponder into the depths of all this and I sort of tread water where this is all concerned. Considering I do not have easy access to my gender therapist, it is proving difficult to make any real progress toward figuring out much of my answers.

My goal, is personal, internal peace, serenity and contentment. I am not yet convinced I MUST transition to acheive these things. Sometimes it seems a foregone conclusion to me that I shall transition someday, other times I'm really uncertain if I need to.

I have been out of denial about being transgendered and have been on an HRT regime for about 2 years now. Those 2 things GREATLY reduce the emotional turmoil all this creates inside me and I am more comfortable, inside my own skin, than I have been in my entire life. Simply not having to pretend to myself I am something different that what I am helps considerably and the hormones, from an emotional and mental aspect, also help alleviate much of the internal fracturing that being being transgendered creates in me.

According to the WPATH, it is entirely OK to be transgendered, receive HRT and NOT present as your true gender or transition publically into it. So, even the SOC suggests that what I am doing is just fine.

Lastly, I think a part of this too is that I'm simply a sissy and too chicken to transition. I'm really not certain if that is the truth or not. But, it is possible.

My dilemma is that I was born with the birth defect of having the wrong physical body for my gender. Knowing that, I do not try to be a guy anymore. I'll be the first to let folks in public know that I'm about as un-macho as they come. Female co-workers have gotten used to my conversations to them concerning make-up, attire, female style in general and none seem to be off-put by me. Several know about me, but most do not. I'm just me. My basic 'cover' is that I'm a liberal hippy (which is also true) and that's why I have long hair and have VERY socially progressive stances on issues, such a gay marriage and the like. Entirely possible that some may suspect more. IDK. But, currently it's working for me. I do know that one girl at work I told about the real me had little problem accepting me and her first comment after I tiold her was "I see that" and most I have told have not been too surprised once they had the ability to digest the information.

All us transgender folk are on a quest with a similar goal, to live as we feel we need to and to have the internal peace, serenity and happiness that living a life of personal integrity and authenticy creates. I believe what is required in each of us to acheive those things does not have to be the same. I'm in quest to find that place for me, as we all are. However, each of us have complicated lives and issues that influence our journey and those things do shape the answers we are looking for. To me it is important to balance my selfishness with my selflessness and to find the place where I do not do unneccessary harm to others and do not harm myself either. There is that place and I trudge cautiously toward it, one day at a time! The journey is worthy of the goal.

[StaceyJane]

Thanks for the responses.
For me going out as a female has been such a wonderful life changing and fulfilling experience. The feeling of rightness that I experience when going out as Stacey is what convinced me that starting HRT was the right thing.
I guess I had to know that HRT would be best for me and that I would be happy as a female. I know that I can't truly know the answer but the time that I have spent as a woman has really convinced me that I am doing the right thing.
Because I feel so confident going out as a woman for me it was no problem at all to go to my therapists appointment and now my doctor's appointment as a woman. For me it's the most natural thing and I do just about everything now days on my days off as a woman.

I used to let fear control me and not go out even though I wanted to so badly. When I overcame my fear I discovered a whole new world both outside and inside myself.

HRT is the same deal. I let fear control me on starting it but now I haved faced it head on and am much happier for it.

[Faith_G]

Stacey, I came into transition from the same direction you did so I understand your confusion. But everyone's path is a little different even if we are headed to the same place. The fact that others experience is different from ours does not make that experience less valid.

Recently I met an awesome trans woman who didn't present female in public until she'd been on hormones for 2 months. She's now 2 years post-op but says her confidence was low until after she had SRS.

[Charlena]

All us transgender folk are on a quest with a similar goal, to live as we feel we need to and to have the internal peace, serenity and happiness that living a life of personal integrity and authenticy creates. I believe what is required in each of us to acheive those things does not have to be the same. I'm in quest to find that place for me, as we all are. However, each of us have complicated lives and issues that influence our journey and those things do shape the answers we are looking for. To me it is important to balance my selfishness with my selflessness and to find the place where I do not do unneccessary harm to others and do not harm myself either. There is that place and I trudge cautiously toward it, one day at a time! The journey is worthy of the goal.

Very wise and thoughtful words Terri, Thank you.

[Katesback]

I will say one thing. Once those hormones take hold of ya it becomes very clear that presenting as a woman is important.

[Teri Jean]

Stacy I am with you on this one but not everyone is ready for that. They may be trying to figure out their feelings. For me I knew and the therapy sessions was a conformation. My therapist has only seen my male side once in the past year and half. I think the difference is some are not sure and some just know.

[Jorja]

I have been struggling to answer this thread. I have seen many girls enter into transition from different paths. For me, there was no stopping me presenting as female 24/7 as soon as my obligation with the military was over. It was like I had no say in the matter. That is what my body needed and that is what my body got. When I finally got my appointment for HRT I had been living as a woman for several months already. I know others that would not go out of the closet even to the bathroom enfemme and surely not to the doctor dressed.

The thing is, we are all different. We all have our own feelings and emotions. We all have our own sense of what is right and wrong for ourselves. The good thing is there are no set rules until you get to the point of SRS. You must live as a woman 24/7 for 1 year before a letter will be written for you. Until that point it is all based on your conversations with your thearpist. So my thought is enjoy your exploration of your femme side and make darn sure of what you want. If you feel comfortable dressing and going out to see your thearpist, then do that. If you don't feel comfortable, then don't.

Personally, I would think anyone considering HRT and possibly SRS would want to be out and about enfemme as much as they could getting used to life as a woman.

I hope some of this made some sense.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Now, I can certianly understand not going to therapy en femme because you are trying to find yourself and I can understand that it might be difficult to go to a doctors appointment en femme if you are going straight from work.
But don't most transsexuals want to present as female?

I know that some people are truely trans and don't feel comfortable going out en femme but starting hormones is a pretty bold statement and after just a little while a permanent statement. I just can't see how someone who doesn't feel comfortable presenting a female can say that they are ready to become one.

I'm not saying that they will never be ready but are they truely ready now?



This is the part of the question Stacey that i think is the problem...

OF COURSE its's BETTER if you are comfortable...you being comfortable is a big advantage for you..i felt alot of pride as i'm sure you did when i started actually presenting as a female.. especially when i started doing it every day..

but how can you say to someone that is uncomfortable and is suffering, "sorry you cant do HRT until you dress as a woman"...in the 70's and later if you didnt look good enough you werent allowed to transition!!!! if you were tall, you weren't allowed to transition....this is exactly what we are trying to avoid...in the 70's and 80's you and I would likely not be ALLOWED to do HRT... ponder that for a moment...are you saying that people that arent comfortable to present female should be denied HRT? that it isnt a good idea for them??? just imagine someone telling that to you

to all you girls out there lurking and that are uncomfortable dressing but feel you are ts and you want to be on HRT, i can say from personal experience that you will benefit greatly from finding support, finding a way to start HRT and get moving on a process that seems monumental... over my last three years i have met at least 100 ts women...and MANY of them are fearful to dress for whatever reason, and the ones on HRT are doing great, hoping on a future transition, and dealing privately with their need to express their feminine souls...don't let others judge you, if taking HRT may help you...get help....

like Katesback says,
starting HRT will get changes going for you on the inside that may help you realize that presenting female is something you need to do, and its something all of us can do...

[BreenaDion]

i can't agree with you stacey...i actually think you have it backwards.

of course its true that feeling comfortable presenting as female is a good thing if you are considering living as female...but its not a predictor of anything.
i think its incorrect to say a person that is uncomfortable dressing as a female should not start HRT..i know many go/slow type transitioners for example...and you are ignoring the concept that dealing with HRT first gives the transsexual person an outlet for her/his feelings...HRT before dressing is very typical...many girls do HRT just to relax with no plans to every dress...

as transition moves on, presenting female loses its meaning anyway...feeling comfortable in your presentation becomes a given...you accept on the INSIDE that you ARE female..and then deal with it..

the more transsexuals i meet, the more i realize how differently we all coped with our "problem" and how differently we approach our "solutions". .. dressing up and feeling comfortable in female presentation is only one piece of the puzzle, HRT is another...they are not dependent on each other....

Bravo...Bravo At first some one has it right. Thank You Kaitlyn Thank you. You hit me on the head with that one. There are plenty of transwomen who dress as they feal comfortable in each an every different situation. Thank you.

14 months on HRT and I dont present as female to my ENDRO dr. NOT ONCE. next appt is in march aint gonna happen there either. I see my Gender Specialist once to twice a month (double sessions) because I have to travel 160 miles round trip. I dont always dress to present with her all the time, did a couple in the beginning but for the most part I dress in drab to see her. Lately last few months its mostly female when I see her but not all the way. Sorry couple times in last 5 months, with make-up. I Go to Peer Support Meeting once a month dressed half an half. I always seam to have my security Item , like a mans coat or shirt, rest is usally female.

Basicly we go to feal comfortable in our surroundings but also we go to just fit in without drawing attention to our selves. Guess you might call that a mode of STEALTH.

As I was exiting FIRST EVENT in Peabody MA this past month I notice 2 nice bear legged women walking towards the hotel. Nice tops , short skirt, high heals an light skin toned legs. As my wife and I got closer I realized that they are 2 CD'S going to fuctions after the work shops have ended. Behind them was 2 males ranking an humiliating them because of they way they was dressed. This is what us transwomen really like to avoid. So we dress comfortable to met the ocasion but also with a deal of stealth.

I didnt see any one post that. Dress well and be safe. Breena.

[Jessinthesprings]

IMHO if you are not comfortable going to the doctor dressed in the way you feel you should be i.e. en femme, and you cannot get yourself to do it... You are not ready for hormones, and there is no need to put your health at risk and take the chances getting outed because the boobies and bootie got too big and jiggaly. The simple fact is you are not ready for transition and HRT is only one step in a multi-step process of transitioning. I understand that there may be certain circumstances that would prevent that like coming from work. And not transitioning at work is understandable. It's hard to risk losing your job, and getting a new one is very hard. You have to eat.

Going to counseling can be a different story as it's journey in self-discovery. Not everyone goes to counseling already knowing, and is just looking to get that signature to move on to the next step.

[Karen564]

I know that some people are truely trans and don't feel comfortable going out en femme but starting hormones is a pretty bold statement and after just a little while a permanent statement. I just can't see how someone who doesn't feel comfortable presenting a female can say that they are ready to become one.

I'm not saying that they will never be ready but are they truely ready now?

So without any name calling I would like to hear how it is a good idea to start hormones without being able to regularly present as a female.

I disagree....

This way of thinking of yours Stacy does remind me of the Gatekeeper mentality, such as, you Must do (insert requirement) before you can move onto (insert next step)..

If that was the rule, I would of never been able to get HRT......even though I've been TS/gender dysphoric since the age of 5...

But your rule will will work out great for the CD'ers & drag Queens that have got their presentation down pat...lol

[Cindi Johnson]

TerryTerri is so right on so much. Hormones need not lead to surgery. For reasons unique to each of us, many of us may never take that final step, yet we are transgendered and we do take hormones. (Why do you think the internet drug suppliers, such as Inhouse Drugstore, have added TG sections to their menus? Obviously there are plenty of TG's taking these drugs who are not willing to put up with the BS of getting doctors and therapists to bless us first.) Even without SRS, we benefit from hormones psychologically as well as physically.

I work as a male, albeit one who generally wears girls' slacks, tops, shoes etc. at work. Outside work, I often present myself as female, but not always. Face it, there is no cookie-cutter definition of a transgendered girl or of a transsexual. Each of us walks our own unique path through this life.

[Melody Moore]

Why do you think the internet drug suppliers, such as Inhouse Drugstore, have added TG sections to their menus? Obviously there are plenty of TG's taking these drugs who are not willing to put up with the BS of getting doctors and therapists to bless us first.)
Cindi, apart from obvious like 'no cookie-cutter definition of a transgendered girl
or of a transsexual' a lot of your other statements are so out of touch with reality.

I really think that you have no idea do you of the risks with taking hormones from the statements that you have made here. HRT isnt a course of treatment to be taken lightly, you don't realise that you are tampering with your body's endocrine system and if your hormones are not properly monitored & balanced or you can have all sorts health complications, including a total breakdown of your body's immune system. There are other issue like Cholecystitis & Deep Vein Thrombosis just to name a few.

If you really researched a lot of these internet drug suppliers, such as Inhouse Drugstore only exist because of a black market demand for drugs that would cost a lot more if you were to obtain them through proper channels. If these drug suppliers really cared about your health then they wouldnt do this because of the risks that is involved with taking some meds. The bottom-line is that these drug suppliers are only in the business for their own means & monetary gain & not because they are trying to do you or the TG community a huge favour.

The truth is that quite a few of these online drug suppliers do buy cheap 'knock offs' or imitations of other medications. Some of these are produced in countries like India where health standards going into the production of these medications are produced in 3rd world unsanitary conditions - Despite the labelling showing they were produced elsewhere. These 'knock-off' companies imitate & forge packaging the whole lot to resemble an authentic product, so it's only too easy to be fooled.

You have only got to go to a place like Bali to see how they imitate designer labels in clothing & footwear and sell it to you at a cheaper price & brand names like Nike, Billabong are often exploited. A girlfriend & I were talking about this the other day and she said that when she was in Bali, she seen stalls set up where they had blank baseball caps and would embroider the designer label you wanted while you waited. Indians have also been flooding the gemstone market with artificially cultured stones so accurately produced that even jewellers have trouble spotting the fakes today.

If you did the maths on what it costs to actually import & export these medications all around the world you should realise that if these were authentic meds produced under proper licence then they would cost a lot more than they are being offered for online. I think you are playing a dangerous game of Russian Roulette playing around with online drug suppliers.

But hey who am I to tell you what to do with your life? No one of any importance to you, so you go ahead, keep taking the risks - after all its your life & not mine that you are gambling with. For me personally, I will continue to go to my gatekeepers, my doctors and therapist and follow their advice. If something is going wrong with my hormone regime, at least I know I have the better chance of finding out & managing any problems discovered as early as possible so my health can be kept under control. If I am to offer my advice to others then these are the things I will continue to point out to keep other people safe from unscrupulous online Drug Dealers.

[TerryTerri]

TerryTerri is so right on so much.... (Why do you think the internet drug suppliers, such as Inhouse Drugstore, have added TG sections to their menus? Obviously there are plenty of TG's taking these drugs who are not willing to put up with the BS of getting doctors and therapists to bless us first.)...

Just for the record, I received all the 'blessings' from my therapist and doctor in my initial prescription for HRT, and, I'm monitored properly by a competent doctor for my HRT.

Not trying to judge those who go the self-prescribed route, except that HRT is serious and is, in my opinion, way too dangerous for me to want to go it alone. I'm not a medical professional.

[Aeva]

Now I'm not 24/7 but I try to go out en femme as much as possible. I really love it and for me the fact that I can feel so comfortable en femme really confirms that transitioning is right for me. I want to go to therapist and doctor's appointments en femme because basically I want to do everything en femme.

I know that some people are truely trans and don't feel comfortable going out en femme but starting hormones is a pretty bold statement and after just a little while a permanent statement. I just can't see how someone who doesn't feel comfortable presenting a female can say that they are ready to become one.

I'm not saying that they will never be ready but are they truely ready now?

So without any name calling I would like to hear how it is a good idea to start hormones without being able to regularly present as a female.


I strongly disagree with you.

There has definitely come to be a transgender culture; and I have seen there to be a specific identity that many of us believe in that is the quintessential transperson: Going en femme to the therapist, rocking the makeup and heels to the factory job. I personally feel that this identity is detached from the subtle things that actually drive us; and so that embracing the group identity in favor of searching for who you are as an individual, is an act of thinking less clearly.
Second, this type of thinking can have an insidious side effect. If a person does not match the group identity, then are they lesser than someone who does? Should we punish them by questioning their authenticity, and therefor assuming them to be delusional? Should we deny them hormones? The right to make their own decisions?

Do cloths make you a woman? If yes, then why would you need HRT? Or is there something more than clothing that drives you?

[Danni Bear]

Do cloths make you a woman? If yes, then why would you need HRT? Or is there something more than clothing that drives you?

no clothes do not make you a woman. they are only an outward expression of who you are inside. I am a woman no matter what I wear or even when i wear nothing. yes I have had SRS but that made no difference in who I've always been. Hormones and or SRS will never make anyone a woman or a man depending on the way you go M2F or F2M. All either will do is give your physical body congruence with your inner identity. The true essence of being TS is knowing who you are and accepting yourself as such. Being TS does not necessiate the taking of hormones or surgery. There are many TS who never do either and live happy and fufilled lives.

Danni Beard

[tanyalynn51]

There are a lot of good answers on here. There are also a lot of stereotypes that we make towards each other, that are as bad or worse than the ones others make towards us. I am a woman who is being allowed to transition slowly for a number of reasons. I am a job that is changing, and at times literally saving lives, that I can only work as a man for now. Im working on that part. The odds of my passing as a woman arent even the true issue. The fact that there are people in our community that are also among the people I work with. I cant go to support groups here, at least yet, for that reason. My therapist and endo put me on HRT, even though I wasnt living full time for those kind of reasons. But even those dont matter. If people on here want to take a high and mighty, nose in the air position, Im used to that with everything else in life. I'll read what you have to say, like everyone else's posts, but Ill give it all the value it's worth. Im happy for you all, and your perfect world, where you can say and do things like that (I dont know what world youre living in, because it sure isnt mine). Just dont assume we all live there.

[Aeva]

no clothes do not make you a woman. they are only an outward expression of who you are inside. I am a woman no matter what I wear or even when i wear nothing. yes I have had SRS but that made no difference in who I've always been. Hormones and or SRS will never make anyone a woman or a man depending on the way you go M2F or F2M. All either will do is give your physical body congruence with your inner identity. The true essence of being TS is knowing who you are and accepting yourself as such. Being TS does not necessiate the taking of hormones or surgery. There are many TS who never do either and live happy and fufilled lives.

Danni Beard

More or less my point. What is it that actually drives us to do this? Something from within. That's really the best answer anyone can give, even from a scientific background. Anything we choose to do to deal with it is, to some degree, arbitrary. Being able to express this in some form or another definitely helps bring us peace. I think hormones and SRS are a means of inward expression more so, just as under dressing is... Some times a person isn't in a place in their life where honesty is safe, and so the only thing they can do is be honest with themselves.

It is not a secret that in the past, that a poor understanding of transsexuality (but really, how much better do we understand it today, other than from an ethical standpoint?) had led to some really arbitrary "gate keeper" tests and trials. For example, lets say you were an engineer; you'd be required to quit that job, as it would be too masculine, and take on a proper feminie job, say as a waitress. if you didn't do this, then clearly you weren't ready enough. This is the same kind of thinking behind "well if you won't go full time, no hormones for you". The "real life test" is widely considered to be outdated and unethical, and this is from the medical standpoint. I'm quoting my therapist here, but even in the current SoC, it isn't considered a requirement for you to go old school.



[edit] we posted about the same time

There are a lot of good answers on here. There are also a lot of stereotypes that we make towards each other, that are as bad or worse than the ones others make towards us.

Yeah, this is definitely a topic that tends to drive out strong opinions. I think the truth is, no one answer is actually best for everyone... I think if someone finds self-empowerment through living full time before they go on with other treatments, then who am I to tell them they shouldn't do that? If someone finds self-empowerment through making more silent changes to their life first, and easing into things, I don't see how this is any less.

I think the reason this topic drives out strong opinions, is more because this is sort of an area where people can feel out something like a pecking order, if they can establish that another person is less authentic than they are. I'm not saying that the original poster is actually doing that, but it is the sort of sentiments that lead to "high school like" behavior given enough people in a group to buy into it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

For example, lets say you were an engineer; you'd be required to quit that job, as it would be too masculine, and take on a proper feminie job, say as a waitress. if you didn't do this, then clearly you weren't ready enough. This is the same kind of thinking behind "well if you won't go full time, no hormones for you".


I think if someone finds self-empowerment through living full time before they go on with other treatments, then who am I to tell them they shouldn't do that? If someone finds self-empowerment through making more silent changes to their life first, and easing into things, I don't see how this is any less.

I think the reason this topic drives out strong opinions, is more because this is sort of an area where people can feel out something like a pecking order, if they can establish that another person is less authentic than they are. I'm not saying that the original poster is actually doing that, but it is the sort of sentiments that lead to "high school like" behavior given enough people in a group to buy into it.

Right..

.and being transsexual is not high school...it is a life threatening condition...

when you say something like....

"I do this...and therefore I am ready to do HRT...
other people don't do this...and therefore they are not ready for HRT..."

you are advocating gatekeeping, it is no different than the mentality that Aeva rightly attacks..
and you putting yourself above others because HRT is viewed as a major positive step by our community as evidenced by the "yay I started HRT" threads and all the congratulations that follow when someone starts..

[StaceyJane]

Right..

.and being transsexual is not high school...it is a life threatening condition...

when you say something like....

"I do this...and therefore I am ready to do HRT...
other people don't do this...and therefore they are not ready for HRT..."

you are advocating gatekeeping, it is no different than the mentality that Aeva rightly attacks..
and you putting yourself above others because HRT is viewed as a major positive step by our community as evidenced by the "yay I started HRT" threads and all the congratulations that follow when someone starts..

Give me a break......

First of all I've always make it clear that I'm not full time.
Secondly I'm not trying to put myself above anyone.

Aeva's argument makes no sense because I have NEVER said anything about having to be full time.

REPEAT... I HAVE NEVER SAID ANYONE NEEDS TO BE FULL TIME.

Maybe I've had some misconceptions. Maybe my therapist is a gatekeeper and it took me a while to find the secret password.
But I do feel confident that I am ready for HRT.


I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF A PECKING ORDER!!!!!

I have just always thought there should be some kind of readiness to begin hormones.
And I'm not out to attack anyone although one person in particular has found it necessary to attack me via PM.
People have taken my original position and brought it too extremes. Again I'm not saying you have to be full time. I'm not but I am comfortable presenting as a woman.

Also I am truly happy for everyone when they do start HRT.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

hi stacey, no worries...
i was just responding to what you said...i wasn't commenting on fulltime vs not fulltime...just on your OP and some follow on posts..

pls know that there are LOTS of very successful non transitioners, non fulltimers and uncomfortable/awkward/unwilling dressers that have had a good experience with HRT..some of them feel HRT saved them....HRT can be a life saver, regardless of where you are on the presentation/fulltime/parttime spectrum...

and i want people reading this forum to know that... the equation is simple...if you think HRT can help you, then single-mindedly pursue HRT in a medically safe way..

[Aeva]

Stacey;

My apologies; I did not mean to imply that you were not ready for HRT. I feel it is a deeply individualized thing. If you feel you are prepared, I'm with your 100% to go fourth with it.
If I had misrepresented your beliefs in my response, I'm sorry; mine are that there are many paths through life, often with similar ends, not that anyone is less than anyone else.

Also, anyone harassing you over PM is definitely not OK. If someone has something to contribute to the conversation that they feel is inappropriate to share here, it is probably also inappropriate to share it privately, too.

[Sue Too]

I agree with much that Stacy offered in her original post. I do go to my therapist dressed as Susan looking neat and stylish but not ready for a Saturday night date. And...because I do, that does not mean that I am contributing to "high school" mentality. To me the teen age mentality shows through when people fail to acknowledge that they dont have all the answers and assume that whatever course they are on is the only correct one. Geez!! Lighten up people!! We're all in this together and are all a part of the same family. Let's be kind to one another.

Susan in Phoenix

[RachelDee]

I think I'd be one of the types of people that the original poster would be referring to?

I do not dress as female much, def not in public. I find that female clothes do not offset my gender conflict much & often can actually make me feel worse (enhancing the feeling that I'm 'wrong'). In general the less I focus on myself and what I am/am wearing the better I feel.

While I do want and aim to present as female (and so very much want to wear the appropriate clothes) in my current position I could not muster the confidence to do so. I would not "pass", id risk my safety, and my family would likely not accept it. Meaning I'd be forced to stop, or leave home.

However that does not make me any less gender dysphoric, so when I spoke to the therapist/doctor*I expressed interest in HRT.

I've heard of it's psychological effects, and if I could settle down this roller coaster of feelings (especially the negative ones) that would be a massive improvement for me. I do want to change my body to be female, and did say I thought transition was my only option (and long term goal) but I'd have to do it gradually.

I wanted to go along the 'gradual' route where I'd be on HRT for about a year or so, having facial hair removal and any other things that I possibly can do make it easier - building into presenting as female in more obvious ways along the way.

For me that's the only way I can imagine transition. I'm a shy, quiet and under confident person etc.

I do admire the strength of others who are able to just get on with it, but I'm not that strong.

EDIT:

Oh and one thing I have wrestled with is something the original poster said. Because it seems like a lot of people on here have done so much to prepare, and often over years to get to the stage where they have been prescribed hormones. Where as I have not done that much at all, yet my Dr still gave me the forms and such to start them in 3 months.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Rachel I think what you are doing is a great idea, and i think you simply have to be honest with yourself and make good decisions about HRT benefits for yourself..dressing is not necessary to get better and feeling good about yourself


yes, it's a health risk, and no, it's not a perfect solution, but if it helps you feel better then it's a good thing..and as the emotions of HRT start to hit you, you will realize that the reality of gender identity is not about clothes and appearances unless you want it to be.....

more and more these days, folks are finding that finding a good legal medically supervised HRT program is not overly difficult...it helps to be close to large diverse cities though..you have been preparing alot longer than the time you've spent with the doctor...just think back over your last years and years

[Stephenie S]

For example, lets say you were an engineer; you'd be required to quit that job, as it would be too masculine, and take on a proper feminine job, say as a waitress.

Excuse me?

You would be required to quit being an engineer? By who? And for goodness sake WHY?

I should be a waitress? No thank you. Being a waitress is an important and necessary job, but it would come nowhere near paying my bills.

Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of this post. The above quote sounds horribly sexist and misogynistic.

Stephie

That said, I do know of more than one TG who takes hormone therapy with NO intention of ever fully transitioning. We have a member right here on this forum. It is doing them a world of good.

S

[Melody Moore]

For example, lets say you were an engineer; you'd be required to quit that job, as it would be too masculine, and take on a proper feminine job, say as a waitress.

Excuse me?

You would be required to quit being an engineer? By who? And for goodness sake WHY?
I agree 100% Stephanie, my best transsexual friend is a motorcycle mechanic and custom-builds Harley Davidson
motorcycles for a living here in Cairns, she has nothing but total respect from the guys she meets in her industry,
including some of the most hard-assed bikers you could imagine to meet.

[Aeva]

I agree with much that Stacy offered in her original post. ... To me the teen age mentality shows through when people... assume that whatever course they are on is the only correct one. Geez!! Lighten up people!! We're all in this together and are all a part of the same family. Let's be kind to one another.

... so are you calling me immature for voicing something to the contrary of the original poster, or trying to make peace? *sigh*

This is the part that seemed more "stratifying", that prompted me to react as I did:

I know that some people are truely trans and don't feel comfortable going out en femme but starting hormones is a pretty bold statement and after just a little while a permanent statement. I just can't see how someone who doesn't feel comfortable presenting a female can say that they are ready to become one.

I'm not saying that they will never be ready but are they truely ready now?

So, I have my first appointment for hormones on the 2nd of march. I don't go out en femme currently, no. Quite frankly, the statement above comes off as condescending, implying strongly that both I'm not a "true trans"; and that I must be either delusional or unaware of the permanent side effects of hormones. Any qualifier as to what a "true trans" is, is pretty arbitrary, since it isn't known what actually causes it. There are some pretty consistent things about transgender people, but "willingness" to something and not something else has more to do with personality than authenticity.

Regardless of if her sentiments match her implication, I still find it very alienating to hear what was written.



For example, lets say you were an engineer; you'd be required to quit that job, as it would be too masculine, and take on a proper feminine job, say as a waitress.

Excuse me?

You would be required to quit being an engineer? By who? And for goodness sake WHY?

I should be a waitress? No thank you. Being a waitress is an important and necessary job, but it would come nowhere near paying my bills.

Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of this post. The above quote sounds horribly sexist and misogynistic.

Stephie

That said, I do know of more than one TG who takes hormone therapy with NO intention of ever fully transitioning. We have a member right here on this forum. It is doing them a world of good.

S

Yes, there was an era of history where psychologists and physicians would withhold treatment if you weren't willing to quit your manly job and divorce your wife. It was sexist, and it was wrong. For some reason, people really like to impose rites of passage onto others when they change outward aspects of their identity.

[noeleena]

Hi.

This will depend on age & how meds work or not. for me mine are for maintance only because im 63 there will not be any change ,
if your looking at breasts or face apart from hair & a softning of your face. other than in side & thats not seen. it wont make any difference how i dress & what i wear. as my pic shows you.
I started meds over 6 years ago.

Im not a T S . or a C D. so did not wear womens clothes when i went to see our psych once only & endo four times , & why would or should i . i knew who i was / am it does not take clothes to say who i am , or is the thinking of some Drs only in line as to only one way a person should be in thier sight. concening trans people . & a male has to wear womens clothes & in some cases looks more out of place than they are.
i can not change my male face end of & who am i trying to fool , no one,

& i would not bend to suit them even if i had been told ,i have to wear womans clothes , in my case they were accepting of who i am. & no issues. at all.

Its high time these Drs got thier blinkers off , & see the real world of where we really do live. well thats the impresion i get from your side of the water.

& to put it very bluntly i did not dress as women do, i did not have the clothes at the time i was not ready to meet joe public of cause there came a time after that i would . & not so much learn what to wear or do make up or walk . i had to be ready & strong enough to face people . because my background of lack of self esteem self convidence & so on & up to that point in my life of 50 years. .

So my bone of contension would be would these Drs do what i have done . no , because they dont have the guts to do what we have to do. yet they have the nerve to tell us what to do.

So YOU, TELL them what YOUR going to do & how your going to get there & when. You ask for help & its up to them to HELP ,,, YOU.. NOT tell you.

Im a woman & all ways have been just mix in intersex androgynous & youll get where im coming from. & we are all different.
I did not have to jump through any hoops & nore would i to get where i am now.

Heres the difference im accepted as a person first. & second as a woman . with my male background.

This may not help you now . its just letting you know theres more than one way to do things.

Oh i for got im a tradesman builder & proud of it, & if they had told me to change my work i would have nailed them to the floor . i wont be told what i can & can not do. & iv done my building as a .....WOMAN.....& will carry on doing so.even after 46 years.

All the best.

...noeleena...