A problem with my preference vs. my identity (MtF's are welcome to reply too)

[Poltergeist]

I have an odd issue with my sexual preference, because of me being trans, which I am getting more and more aware of the older I get.

The thing is... I know I like guys, and there is no doubt in my mind that I am, for the most part, attracted to men...

But even though I don't label myself as bisexual (yet), I AM sometimes attracted to females as well... not really femme woman, but woman who are boyish/butch/androgynous. It doesn't happen that often... but if I'm honest, it doesn't really happen that often with guys either... I tend to like androgynous people in general, I think, and there's just not a lot of them around here.

Have I been attracted to, and in love with, woman? Yes, I definitely have!

BUT... and here comes my trans-related problem... I have a HUGE problem with the female body. If I see a shirtless woman, or a vagina, I immediately go "eeew!" and turn my head.

I've come to realise that it's because it's an immediate reminder of what I have. Especially boobs. Seeing a pair of boobs reminds me that I have a pair of those too, and that works better than a cold shower on me.

I think what I'm trying to say is, in short:

I am attracted to woman, but I could probably never have a physical relationship with one, because their bodies makes me feel extremely uncomfortable in my own skin.

I'm wondering if anyone else have had this issue... and it doesn't matter if you're an MtF who feels this way about men.

If you've had this problem - have you been able to overcome it, and how did you do it?

[Areyan]

sorry no one has replied yet... i can't speak for MTFs but i can say that as a transguy i understand what you are feeling - in the opposite way though. part of my realization that i was still thinking like a guy into adulthood was the issue i kept having of jealousy in my former straight-female relationships with males.

i now consider myself a straight guy after quite a lot of introspection and talking to both sexes to gauge my feelings one way or the other, or something in between, lol. other women's boobs and vaginas etc don't put me off because the ones i'm attracted to don't remind me of myself in any way whatsoever. i simply can't identify if that makes sense. i know i have the same "bits" as they do but i cannot feel like a woman on the inside so i feel more like i'm wearing a woman suit to be honest. some days are worse than others with the bad feelings about my body but i get by largely by ignoring my physique - or binding it like crazy - and focusing on who i project out there from within. (i am also non-op, no-ho at present).

i'm the opposite, however, with men because of my deep and painful desire to be one, i cannot enjoy the idea of being intimately close with a man ever again. i hate them sometimes for what they naturally have that i don't - a penis - and though that is not all there is to being a man, it's the one thing they trump me on every time. so do i want to be reminded of what i don't have all the time in a romantic relationship? no way. i'd rather be with a woman who appreciates that i want to be the man in the relationship.

i'm straight, so i guess that's how it feels for me. if i was a gay man and felt the way you do i would assume it's because of my orientation rather than an identity thing (pure speculation of course, i simply couldn't know unless i was in your shoes). but i digress, i just don't relate to women like that. please forgive my ignorance too if it comes across that way, i do not understand being gay for a FTM in a sexual sense or even as a sexual identity. being effeminate or a female-born man has not made me feel like i can relate to gay men. sorry if we are poles apart here, just wanted to give you my perspective because it's similar but an opposite one.

if i imagine myself with a man it makes me feel resentful of my natal gender and the whole reason he would be interested in me and that whole picture makes me sad and angry. i am still attracted to some men but not in the way that i was accustomed to as a female. and quite frankly, i'm too damn jealous of their natal gift to like being a recipient of it in any way. at first i thought i was bi or pansexual because of this attraction but over time i've come to see it for what it is - an admiration for many aspects of maleness that i wish i had received at my own birth.

[Lissa Stevens]

I am an MTF and I can understand what you're saying. I always wished I could have grown up a GG and experienced all that a normal GG does including pregnancy/having children but I have no desire to experience sex with a man. I truly feel I am a lesbian in a man's body. Unlike Areyan I don't hate women for what they have and I don't. They can't help the way they were born anymore than I can. Of course when I see a woman I would like to Be Her but I am also physically attracted to her also.

[DanielMacBride]

I haven't replied to this thread before now because it took me a while to figure out what I was going to say (lol, gotta love fibro brain fog). I consider myself pansexual in theory (that is, the potential exists for me to be attracted to someone of any gender), but the reality for the moment is that I am pretty much asexual. I adore women's bodies - I have no problem with female bodies because they belong to women and not me ;) (The joys of testosterone, it has made my body sufficiently masculine that I can't compare it to a female body any more - so while it isn't completely male, it's much better than it was before I started T. There are still the obvious things that bother me about it lol, but even those don't make me dislike feminine bodies, because my body is no longer a woman's body).
I can also be attracted to men's bodies and I don't really have an issue with their equipment causing me any jealousy as such (well unless they have particularly spectacular equipment LMAO! :D)

Where I do have an issue though is that when it comes to being with a woman, sometimes that causes me a problem when I think about it - not because she's a woman, but because I don't have the bits I was supposed to be born with (and this also messes with my head bigtime and means I can't use strap-ons or whatever, because to me they are just a reminder of what I should have but don't, and I don't feel anything - so they are pretty much as good as a cold shower :( )

I have no problem with any other aspect of sex with a woman - just that one thing due to lack of proper equipment that should have been issued at birth. The weird part about that is (and I'm speaking purely hypothetically here, because I haven't been in a relationship in way too many years so I'm really only speculating, I won't know for sure until it happens for me to test it out) that I don't think I'd have the same issue if I were in a relationship with another guy - I can't really explain why, but to me a relationship with another man would have less of that element of having to prove my masculinity (if that makes sense? I dunno lol, it's 3:20am here so I may not be particularly coherent....)

Psychologically speaking, I think that for me, if I was in a relationship with another guy, the fact that he was with me would mean that there was already sufficient acknowledgement of my masculinity, so there wouldn't be the pressure on me to prove that I'm male and there would be less of that competitive element there.

In contrast, if I were with a woman, I would constantly be aware that I don't have the same equipment that guys are supposed to be born with, and for me that would create constant pressure (ha, how about that, transman performance anxiety! :heehee: ) on me because I would always have it in the back of my head, what if she decides she wants a guy with the right equipment that I can't give her? What if what I can give her isn't enough?

Heh this is why me being single for 11 years is probably a good thing :brolleyes:

[Felix]

Hi I think I can relate to a more or lesser degree to where ya all coming from. I think I've just about exhausted every avenue in my thought processes before I fully accepted that I was indeed heterosexual. The big issue for me was the lack of equipment I should have been born with like Dan said :)

I guess I haven't let this stop me or else I wouldn't be with Helen but it was a huge risk and scary when I entered into our relationship coz I didn't have the equipment needed. We have managed quite well as Helen saw me as male from the outset and was able to think of certain parts of my anatomy as male that just needed modification. I think ya just have to do what is comfortable for you and not put ya self into situations that are going to stress you out and set ya disphoria off unless ya know ya can handle them before hand if things don't go to plan. Hope this has helped a little :) xx Felix

[AnonyMouse]

It definitely depends for me. I am a fan of boobies (pansexual), and sometimes I can admire/fantasize about them with no problems. Other times I can't look at them without being reminded that I've got a pair of my own and it makes me emo. As for vulvas... I don't know; I don't really spend a lot of time looking. Right now I feel like if I was faced with one I wouldn't be able to deal with it because it would shatter my carefully crafted delusion of having guy parts (something that helps me deal with my probably permanent non-bottom-op state). Other times, though, I'm all about the vulvas - usually when I'm having a more girl-loving phase.

I also seem to have it in my head that it would be easier to be in a relationship with a woman because... something about not seeming more female by comparison. I dunno. It's hogwash.

[the_me]

I'm MtF and can sympathize in reverse... I find myself (sometimes incredibly) attracted to men, yet at the same time find the sight of a penis, or a shirtless muscular man as a turnoff.

However, I do acknowledge myself as TG and Bisexual. It took a lot of thought and time to come to terms with, but I realized it does really come down to the person as a whole, be they male or female, that I am attracted to.

I am in no way whatsoever qualified to tell you what to do or feel, of course, but can answer your last question to the best of my ability: Yes, I have been able to overcome it. How: harder to explain. Of course I first came to accept myself for who I am, and found myself looking for the same acceptance in members of both genders.

I hope this is somewhat helpful, I struggle to think of further explanation. We are all 'wired' differently, so to speak. Self reflection might give you your best answer, you may just need to find the right questions to ask yourself to find clarity.

[BiancaEstrella]

I don't know what I'd consider myself at this point, "confused as heck" is a good starting point though...

I've always been attracted to women. Lately that attraction has become indiscriminate of genitalia. I think that I could comfortably function with a woman that has a penis just as well as I could one with a vagina. Furthermore, I could see myself functioning as "the girl" with a FtM despite the genital reversal.

In all 3 cases, it would take someone with an open mind - be it the cisgendered female who accepts that I crossdress, the transgendered female who accepts that I'm a stripped-down version of herself sometimes, or the transgendered male who accepts that I'm not an actual full-time female, but will socially be a female for him (although I'd still be a male at work or whatever, which might spoil surprise visits at the job).



I sat here for 10 minutes thinking up, then typing my response, and I'm not sure I'm much clear at all.

[Leo Lane]

The thing is... I know I like guys, and there is no doubt in my mind that I am, for the most part, attracted to men...I AM sometimes attracted to females as well... not really femme woman, but woman who are boyish/butch/androgynous... I tend to like androgynous people in general, I think...

Have I been attracted to, and in love with, woman? Yes, I definitely have!

SNAP! All of what I've quoted applies to me as well, very much. The whole attracted-to-androgyny thing seems to be very common in bi (and bi-leaning-gay, and gay-with-a-bi-streak...) transguys.

Now, as for sex, I'm not really in a position to answer. I've been completely celibate so far and may well be so for the rest of my life. If I am, it won't bother me. I get attracted to women, but, except in maybe three cases, not enough to have sexual fantasies about them; my masturbation fantasies have generally tended to be about gay male sex, either between fictional characters (i.e. not me) or me-with-a-male body and some other male person. The idea of actual sex just squicks me unless it's with somebody I really really like and trust. When I was fifteen I decided would have been willing to have sex with a good friend of mine, who was a gay guy. Then a few months later I fell hard for a straight female friend, whom I pined for for years, and whom I definitely wanted to sleep with. After this faded away due to distance and time, I fell for a male friend who I strongly suspect is asexual. I'd jump at the chance to sleep with him too. (I know, my luck sucks.) So, only three people I'd actually have gone to bed with, and none of them interested. That's OK though; the emotional closeness and commitment is what I really yearn for.

Interestingly, though I was VERY attracted to this female friend and often thought of sex with her, I only masturbated to thoughts of her twice. This male friend I am also very attracted to, but not quite so passionately much, but I've still masturbated over him a lot. Why? A different relationship, a different stage of my life, internalised homophobia, I don't know. But it didn't have to do with my female friend's body. In fact, because I loved and trusted her and got on well with her, being around her made me feel more at ease in my own female body.

[Haley Heather]

In the past I have flip flopped, alot, sometimes from day to day even, one day I look at men like straight men look at men, the next day I look at women like straight women look at women then the day after that I look at women like men do or like a woman sees a man, its all so confusing, even to me, even to this day to a certain extent. But what I think I finally discovered was that sure, I get attracted to physically attractive people just like anyone else but more than any thing i am attracted to the people because of who they are, or even not attracted for that matter, like abusive people, there minds are just not attractive to me, therefore I'm not attracted, I don't know, this is a hard question. I probably did a horrid job rrying to explain my own confusion. :(

[AnonyMouse]

I think you explained it very well. I am familiar with the feeling (although I must confess to a good chunk of physical shallowness); I think that the common term for it is "fluid sexuality." It can be very confusing, but it can also be fun as you never really know what (or who) you're going to find yourself attracted to next.

[kimdl93]

As a bi-MtF, I'm probably not the right person to give advice. I find both the female and male anatomy sexually attractive. Still, I think you have a pretty good understand your reaction to the female body. If its something you dislike about yourself, then its not surprising that you're not attracted to the female attributes of others.

So, then how to deal with it. Well, for starters, this may never change. If you want it to change, perhaps there's some way to work through this issue with a therapist. You're part way there - you find something about some women attractive. Maybe (and this might be wholly unrealistic) you could learn to be more accepting of your own body in some respect.

[7sisters]

It is a cliche, but I think it's very true: you have to love yourself before you can love another.

[Seamus_Jameson]

I also held off on answering this thread to think about it. Sounds like you are having some real body issues. The best I can tell you is that my "acceptance" of my breasts and vulva is directly connected to my general self-acceptance. What do I mean? Well, when I feel "in my element" as a man, having female bits doesn't bother me at all--it's a complete irrelevancy. Yes, women also have them. . . but women have faces and hands, too. Having breasts doesn't make me a woman any more than having a face does.

When my masculinity is put into question, then it comes to me in full force that those "bits" are what keeps society from acknowledging that I'm a man. That's when I start really hating them and wish they were gone.

In your position, of not being generally accepted for the man you are, I think you should keep an open mind. If you meet the "right" woman, straight or bisexual, interesting and attractive to you, and equally interested in you, then it might not matter. And if it is a problem, she'll be willing to help you with it. From personal experience, having a lover treating you like a man in bed is very good for the ego (I think the cisguys will agree on that one!) and reduces any kind of anxieties or body issues. So yeah, if womens' parts gross you out, just don't think about them--but don't let that close the door to a possible future relationship.

[Haley Heather]

Thank you anonymouse for helping me define my sexuality.

[Linda Stockings]

Wow, what a very complex and fascinating thread! In certain ways, I empathize with each and every member who has contributed to this. I'm a MtF genetic male. Sometimes I want to be female so bad it hurts. I read the posts of several FtM FAB's who said they really wanted to date a Mtf CD. Some were lesbians, some were GG's who wanted to be FtM. If I could afford it, I would at least have HRT, implants, permanent hair removal, and facial feminization surgery. Ironically, I'm not gay, and don't have any desire to be with a man. Something about a GG FtM would be wonderful though. I wouldn't care what bits she (he) would have. Whatever we could work out that would me mutually satisfying would be wonderful. I would want to be as female as possible for her (him). I do love my girl clothes, however, but as long as I could have all my girly things: makeup, hair, dresses and skirts, stockings or pantyhose, and lots of high heels and girly flats, I would be incredibly happy. I realize I can never be a GG, but to be able to acquire some of their characteristics would be fantastic. And if a GG would be happy with me that way - well, I can't think of anything better.

Stay safe, be happy,

Linda

[Pythos]

The issue I have is when I am thought of by the potential interests as being bi, or gay. The GG admitted to me what she first met me she wondered if I had a boyfriend. I know this is kicking at a dead horse but I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE THINKING THAT WAY. I have met many gay or bi people and NONE of them dressed like myself. They were usually in the ubiquitous jeans or khakis, and looked quite masculine if male, or feminine when female.
What I hope is I changed the GG's way of thinking now that she knows she was incorrect.

[AnonyMouse]

It is a cliche, but I think it's very true: you have to love yourself before you can love another.

:sad: But I love myself all the time! Every day if possible.

Owait... that's not what you meant. :heehee: I actually am pretty fond of myself, though. (At least on the inside.) There are some things I would change, but, y'know, I've got to live with myself so I may as well like it. (To say nothing of learning to like the walk-ins... yeah, we'd be screwed if we couldn't get along.)

Unfortunately, there's no easy way to just love yourself out of body dysphoria. You can tuck and bind those parts away, and suspend your awareness as much as possible, but that's really just shutting out the problem, not getting rid of it. And it definitely makes it harder to love others with the same kind of body parts that you hate.

Well, except for pinky fingers. I'm not always fond of mine, but I certainly like those on other people.

[Haley Heather]

The issue I have is when I am thought of by the potential interests as being bi, or gay. The GG admitted to me what she first met me she wondered if I had a boyfriend. I know this is kicking at a dead horse but I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE THINKING THAT WAY. I have met many gay or bi people and NONE of them dressed like myself. They were usually in the ubiquitous jeans or khakis, and looked quite masculine if male, or feminine when female.
What I hope is I changed the GG's way of thinking now that she knows she was incorrect.

misconception can almost be an art form

[Leo Lane]

I think that the common term for it is "fluid sexuality." It can be very confusing, but it can also be fun as you never really know what (or who) you're going to find yourself attracted to next.

Well put. That's how I often feel.

[PortiaHoney]

As a pre-op MtF, I was attracted to women but my GI was basically female so I got by by thinking of myself as a lesbian with a slight advantage. I wasn't predisposed to being attracted to men but there were a couple.

Now, after hormones and antiandrogens, my preference is strictly male (not every male, I still have taste LOL). I can appreciate a beautiful woman but I have no desire whatsoever to "be" with a woman.

The only issue for me now is that my "equipment" is wrong for how I feel and this causes extreme frustration and anxieties. I am lucky in that I am currently seeing a very understanding guy.

[Poltergeist]

I haven't been on here since I moved, there weren't any answers last time I checked, but I see that changed while I was away LOL. It's been interesting reading your views :)

Some people in my life - including my mom! - are encouraging me to try to find a girlfriend, as I am always complaining about being single, and it's tough finding a man who can accept me the way I am. And I really wish I could -after all, I know that I CAN have crushes on girls, it's "just" the physical part that's an issue because of my own dysphoria.

I've never felt jealous of men, at least not in a negative way - but I do often have an issue with wanting to copy the guys I'm attracted to, which of course must be a total turnoff to them LOL.

Honestly, I don't want to sound negative, but I have pretty much given up on the whole dating thing... I do wish I could find a way to make it work, though.

[Areyan]

good luck, man... and to the MTF who stated something about me hating women... errr, back up a bit. i'm a straight male but i dun have misogynistic views. i dun like what i was born with but it's not a hatred for women at all, it actually has little to do with the parts i have and more my mental state, ya? anyway, good luck with it all, adrian, i know i battle with feelings about this at times too, even though i have always been and still feel straight.

[Maddie22]

I'm pre-transitional M2F. I live my life as a CD for right now. However I have questions about my sexual attractions as well. I know that in a long term intimate relationship, I would have to be with someone that is feminine, as I find that most attractive, comforting, and I relate to best because I myself am very feminine. The same goes for physical appearance in dressing as well (not neccesarily ultra feminine attire, but on the feminine side of the fence). But for physical gender, I do find myself most attracted to genetic females, and post-op M2F. However I would physically be with a Pre-Op M2F, I have found more masculine females to be attractive, and I have found some M2F's attractive too. I've even thought about genetic males, but it would have to be the right situation. There are certain universal traits I'm not attracted to. The main one is body hair, more so than genitalia. I have a huge issue with this, making genetic males less attractive over all. I also do get attracted to the androgynous. I seem to be all across the board here, but in reality I would take each situation independently, and go from there. It just so happens that certain attractions happen more frequently than others.

[KuroYuki]

So does anyone ever feel confused as to the gender they're attracted to? For example, do you ever feel like you're only attracted to men sometimes and then other times feel like you're really attracted to women and you can't decide whether you're gay, straight, bi, etc? I just wanted to know if anyone else struggles with this.

[mistunderstood]

Yes I do flip flop all the time.

[karanne]

I can sympathize. I'm a pre-op MtF, living full time as a woman, yet I still feel a desire for (primarily) women, although an attractive guy keeps my eye. I also curse that I wasn't born with the 'proper' bits for what I consider myself, but make do as well as I can. Ideally, I'd hook up with a FtM, I think we could complement each other - could understand each other in a way that a gay or straight couple couldn't.

[KellyJameson]

As a MTF I'm attracted to men but not enough to have sex with them but enjoy being around heterosexual men that are masculine as long as they are funny and not violent, that smell of testosterone gives me goose bumps and I usually do not connect well with feminine men and become impatient with them yet I prefer the company of women when they are not being catty and love to sleep with them but have no interest in sex with them and I have found myself most comfortable with lesbians but only those who are in the dominant role as long as they are also easy going, fun and not violent because they than mirror my own psychology almost perfectly and often the air becomes sexually charged between us, something that creates a certain amount of confusion for all parties involved and threatens their girlfriends. In general I have no interest in sex because I have to be able to connect on a deep level with someone, a level that equals a intuitive, feeling, understanding of them and this has only happened with certain women that are also gay. Life is weird when you live in the wrong body.

[Bree-asaurus]

I'm an MTF and a fellow Dane :D (well, half-dane... that doesn't speak danish... and lives in Texas... but I LOVE herring... does that count??????)

I'm attracted to men. I find women physically attractive because I appreciate their beauty but I don't think I'd want to be in a relationship with one. I have been in the past, and I've been in relationships with men more recently... and so far, I'd always choose a man over a woman. Then again, if I met the right person, their gender wouldn't matter to me.

And speaking of meeting the right person, I'm in an awesome relationship with an FTM. I care not of boobs and vaginas, but that doesn't stop me from loving my man and appreciating his masculinity.

It would be awesome if he had all the proper man-parts, but it would also be awesome if I had all the proper woman-parts. We make do with what we have :)

[nikkijo]

polter... ithe sight of male parts..even my own make me gag... i love girls.. so this girl is defintly gay..lol

[melissaK]

I'm going to channel some John Lennon here, but imagine you had no notion there were men and women . . . no idea you were one or the other . . . no expectations you had to pick a gender role to like or dislike . . .
Hugs,
'lissa

[Sunny50]

As an older MTF, I can say that years ago my thoughts definitely had me in the same place yours are currently reflecting. The most important opinion that I would like to throw at you is, Always remember who you are, enjoy being that person and believe me when the time is right to begin an encounter that will lead you to a lasting relationship with your true partner in life that you can openly give all your Love to, You will definitely find the "Right" person and you won't be worried about gender. Real Love has no boundries.

[Tracii G]

As an older MTF, I can say that years ago my thoughts definitely had me in the same place yours are currently reflecting. The most important opinion that I would like to throw at you is, Always remember who you are, enjoy being that person and believe me when the time is right to begin an encounter that will lead you to a lasting relationship with your true partner in life that you can openly give all your Love to, You will definitely find the "Right" person and you won't be worried about gender. Real Love has no boundries.

This makes good sense to me.