DIfference btween cross dressing & transvestism?

[Mistress Frillee]

transvestism & cross dressing.... whats the diff? I sort of know the diff, but I want to clearify this for myself...

hoping some of you can help...

transvestism = men wearing the clothes of women & gets sexual pleasure from wearing women's clothing. Is this right?

[Stephanie Brooks]

My view is they're two labels for the same thing. You may as well include eonism. Personally I use them interchangeably. Some do not, and I imagine I'll hear about that presently. :titanic:

[celeste26]

Cross dressing is the more general term covering any and all reasons why a person does this. Transvestism is a more specific term for those who get their sexual... well you know that already. Drag is a specifc term for the "over the top" presentations for entertainment, usually, and it covers both hetereo and gay points of departure. Eonism is something entirely different.

[Fiona K]

Two countries devided by a comon language.

Transvestism was the word given to men who like to dress in womens clothing- sexualy motivated or otherwise- about 100 years ago. It is a bit clinical and as such in the US seems to hav edropped from favour, particulalry as some organsiations don't like the link to sexuality. Crossdresser then became the preferred term

In the UK no such hang-up really exists and the term Transvestite or Tranny is a a badge worn with a certain amount of pride.

Check out Helen Boyd's brilliant "My Husband Betty" for more on this. And a poke a those who say sex has nothing to do with dressing!!
Fiona
xx

[Katie Ashe]

transvestism & cross dressing.... whats the diff? I sort of know the diff, but I want to clearify this for myself...

transvestism = men wearing the clothes of women & gets sexual pleasure from wearing women's clothing. Is this right?
Cutting the red tape here... Trans is an older term, CD is the new age term.
The difference is cding is about wearing clothing of the opposite sex for any reason. transvestites are people whom wear clothing of the opposite sex for reasons of tring to pass as the other sex. These terms aply to men medically and not women, according to a medical board/
Example:
CD'ers wear skirts, and don't try to pass
Transvestites wear everything, and try to pass as such.

See link for more info. Terms (http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/glossary.html)

[Maddie Knight]

Example:
CD'ers wear skirts, and don't try to pass
Transvestites wear everything, and try to pass as such.

See link for more info. Terms (http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/glossary.html)

This makes me a transvestite but i prefer the term crossdresser, its less clinical.
I don't see much diference between the two terms, I think its up to you to decide which you prefer.

[Lauren_T]

In common everyday usage, it would seem that there really is no effective difference, as can be seen simply by the variety of choices individuals here make in choosing one or the other. As many have said, they don't care personally, but 'transvestite,' for many, carries a clinical connotation, and thereby implies pathology, whereas 'crossdresser' means the same but without the stigma.

[Katie Ashe]

Yes I prefer the term CD'er also, less dirogatory.

No girl likes being called a muffin diver...
No guy likes being called a fudge packer...

I was simply stating the answer to the Q. Everyone likes the nice names, so that's a dead subject. Medical terms is were new people get hung up at. I also had this problem when I joined this site.

Friends....

[Stephanie Mancini]

Two countries devided by a comon language.

Transvestism was the word given to men who like to dress in womens clothing- sexualy motivated or otherwise- about 100 years ago. It is a bit clinical and as such in the US seems to hav edropped from favour, particulalry as some organsiations don't like the link to sexuality. Crossdresser then became the preferred term

In the UK no such hang-up really exists and the term Transvestite or Tranny is a a badge worn with a certain amount of pride.

Check out Helen Boyd's brilliant "My Husband Betty" for more on this. And a poke a those who say sex has nothing to do with dressing!!
Fiona
xx

Have to go aong with you on this one Fiona, i wear my badge with pride and then some, its always been tranny in the UK


Steph

[MonaSmith]

I always describe myself as a tranny. I'm not sure which side of the TV/TS line I fall, somewhere in the middle I think, so tranny is a good catch-all term for me.

xxx

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

In the States, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the main reference book used by mental health professionals) refers to "Transvestic Fetishism" as a sexual pathology, along with child molesters and other charming folks. (Although it only applies to those who dress for sexual purposes to the point of screwing up the rest of their life.)

So as Fiona said, Tri-Ess and other organizations adopted "cross-dresser" as a way of trying to reframe things. Outside the States, "transvesite" apparently has less of a stigma as a sexual pathology, so the term continues to be used.

[Kimberly]

I like crossdresser. It sounds less "ugly"... in a way. :p

Tranvestite, in my mind, has too many negative connotations. I believe that whilst coming out to friends, if I'd said "transvestite" rather than "crossdresser," I would have got a different reaction... maybe more of a raised eyebrow. Crossdresser just sounds nicer, and like others have stated: less clinical.

I'm a UK lass... but a new age UK lass...... first I considered myself a tranvestite, but now I use crossdresser to signify how I've moved on from the pure sexual pleasure - though it still lingers...but it's not my main reason for dressing.

[Kelly_TGirl]

I am a Transvestite, i consider the fact that i dress and make up fully, shave all over, use foundation, paint nails, wear wig and go outdoors dressed up that i am a TV. For what ever reason, Cross Dressers do not in the main dress and make up fully as females and its that that i think defines TV's and CD's.

I think CD's still get a sexual thrill in the main but i think TV's try to look as much like a woman as they can and socialise more as a woman.

[Rainbow6562005]

I don't see much difference between the two terms, though CDer sounds far more friendly and accepting than transvestite.

I'd never heard or read of Eonism till I saw it on this thread just now and looked it up on the Web. If anyone else doesn't know it, it's a psychiatric word for transvestism, originating in the 1920s. It's named after Eon, a French diplomat who dressed as a woman as a disguise. (I swear that I didn't make this up!)

Rainbow, a proud CDer

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

For what ever reason, Cross Dressers do not in the main dress and make up fully as females and its that that i think defines TV's and CD's.

Maybe it's different in the UK, but that's not the case with this CD, nor the CDs I know. Plus it would be kind of hard to blend in when I go out if I didn't dress and make-up fully as a female. ;)

[Kelly_TGirl]

I think the UK Girls will agree that over here guys who dress and make up fully and try to look the complete female are called TVs, those starting out or who only dress partially are reffrered to as CDs. I like the name transvestite.

Maybe because the way the word is interpretted over here gives the image of someone who dresses as a woman completely.

[Lauren_T]

Hmmm. Makes sense, actually... But I fear it'd be impossible to get that across to the average American, confused as they already are...
:confused: :(

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I like the name transvestite.

Maybe because the way the word is interpretted over here gives the image of someone who dresses as a woman completely.

Plus Latin-sounding terms are always more sophisticated. ;)

But then again I'm just a daft Yank. :D

[FionaAlexis]

difference?? :confused:

I think transvestites are usually much better looking but crossdressers have nicer personalities and drive better cars. Or is it the other way?

Fiona xx

[Stacie Stockman]

I call myself a CD, because even though I know what Trans is, but what the **** is a vestite?

[Mirragea]

I have wonderd about this very question some time ago.Webster's dictionary states:

crossdresser-one who wears the clothing typically worn by the opposite sex
tranvestite-a person who derives sexual pleasure from dressing in the clothes of the opposite sex

[FionaAlexis]

.....whereas the Heinemann [Australian] dictionary states...

transvestite...a person who dresses in the clothing of the opposite sex.

and crossdresser is not even listed.

Dictionaries simply reflect the language and culture they emanate from.


Fiona xx

[Rachel Morley]

There were some interesting points of view when we asked something along these lines before, except that time it was about what do we prefer.

http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12151&highlight=transvestite

I like to think of myself as a crossdresser...transvestite seems very "Rocky Horror" to me....I'm just a sweet transvestite from transsexual....etc etc

:bw:

[Fiona K]

.....whereas the Heinemann [Australian] dictionary states...

transvestite...a person who dresses in the clothing of the opposite sex.

and crossdresser is not even listed.

Dictionaries simply reflect the language and culture they emanate from.


Fiona xx

What did I say about divided by a common language???
Fiona :angel:

[FionaAlexis]

What did I say about divided by a common language???
Fiona :angel:

Yes you did! Fiona :). OMG It's like talking to myself. Wonder what the Oxford Dictionary says?

Fiona xx

[TammyB]

Wikipedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/) has the fullest and most unbiased descriptions of these terms i've seen. Type transvestite or crossdresser into the search box. It covers all the history and misuse of the terms.

[Lawren]

I guess I have a "middle of the road" view on this one.

Transvestite and Crossdresser are just labels to me. Labels that most people won't even try to understand. They just don't want to know. I don't want to generalize too much, but I think that to most people, all TVs and CDs are mentally unbalanced to some degree but they just don't care enough about the whole subject to learn. It seems that only the severely prejudiced make an issue over it and their view is always derogatory so. Hence the non-acceptance and/or persecution of all CDs and TVs.

Oh well, just my humble opinion.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Crossdressing, dressing in the clothing of the opposite sex, is what people with many various, often unrelated psychological issues DO. TRANSVESTISIM is ONE of those conditions that induce some people to crossdress---There IS a difference.

Transvestisim used to be the term to describe the act of dressing as the opposite sex, but when it was finally established that people crossdress for several different reasons, Transvestisim came to mean (in most informed circles) a person who crossdresses for sexual, fetish based reasons. Crossdressing, itself, took its place as the "blanket term" for an act COMMON to the VARIOUS conditions in which it is observed.----

Those sources that do NOT differentiate between Crossdressing and Transvestisim, tend to treat it as it was a condition unto itself, leading them to make erronious presumptions and assumptions about people's sexuality, identity concepts and fetish objects. They fail to realize that they are considering only a COMMON SYMPTOM of several unrelated conditions to BE the condition---no wonder there is a lot of confusion often associated with CD and TV.
These sources are usually OLDER (early 20th century) just when investigations into such things became "acceptable" and all the conditions that result in CDing had not been identified. Even some professionals cling to these 'fuzzy" old ideas, mostly because they were tought that in school--and have little real experience with CD and conditions associated with it. Such professionals are often easily to spot(even those like Dr. Laura, who should know better) As they tend to almost always include the term "homosexuality" in any sentance or short comments That involve the TV or CD words.---Pros can be just as ignorant as common folk in these matters.

[Vaerise]

There are actually differences between the both. As Marina has summed up nicely.

Crossdressers can be anyone who wears clothings of the opposite sex. Regardless of reasons. Crossdressing is merely a word to describe the act, and crossdressers is the word to describe people who do it.

Tranvestite / tranvestitism means something altogether. It usually associates crossdressing with sexual pleasure.

So a transexual who crossdress to match how she feels inside can be considered a crossdresser but not a tranvestite.

Well, I think this is the clinical term for it....

[vicki true]

Have to go aong with you on this one Fiona, i wear my badge with pride and then some, its always been tranny in the UK


Steph
hi. i agree with you STEPH.

[Fiona K]

Yes you did! Fiona :). OMG It's like talking to myself. Wonder what the Oxford Dictionary says?

Fiona xx

This is like talking to one's self!!
I haven't checked the OED but check this out:


Definitions of terms which appear in the Gay and Lesbian Section of the Edinburgh Pubs Guide:

Transsexual
A transsexual is a person who wishes to be considered by society as a member of the oppostite sex.
A transsexual is a person who has ungone a sex change opperation.

Transvestite
A transvestite is a person who dresses, and acts in a style or manner, traditionally associated with the opposite sex.
A transvestite is a person (usually male) who adopts the dress and behaviour of the opposite sex, for purposes of emotional or sexual gratification.

Transgender/transgendered
Transgendered refers to a person who appears as, or whishes to be considered as, or who has undergone sugery to become, a member of the opposite sex.
Transgender: Of or relating to a transgendered person or transgendered people.

Crossdresser
A crossdresser is one who dresses in clothing characteristic of the opposite sex.
A crossdresser is someone who adopts the dress or manner or sexual role of the opposite sex.

So that's clear then! Or maybe not...............

One common thread from our US sisters is a definite distinction whether there is a sexual element to dressing and this is used as the differentiator between CD and TV. As I mentioned before this distinction is very well de-constructed by Helen Boyd in her book- which is why she's persona non grata at TriEss for example!!

Fiona
xx

[Lauren_T]

I'm afraid a goodly number of us would be PNG at Tri-Ess... :eek:

[MarinaTwelve200]

This is like talking to one's self!!
I haven't checked the OED but check this out:


Definitions of terms which appear in the Gay and Lesbian Section of the Edinburgh Pubs Guide:. . .
. . .
Crossdresser
A crossdresser is one who dresses in clothing characteristic of the opposite sex.
A crossdresser is someone who adopts the dress or manner or sexual role of the opposite sex.

So that's clear then! Or maybe not...............

One common thread from our US sisters is a definite distinction whether there is a sexual element to dressing and this is used as the differentiator between CD and TV. As I mentioned before this distinction is very well de-constructed by Helen Boyd in her book- which is why she's persona non grata at TriEss for example!!

Fiona
xx

Yes----but most of the other types mentioned above also CROSSDRESS, transgendered, transsesual, transvestite, etc.---They may ALL be crossdressers.---thats PART of the problem--Crossdressing is an act held in COMMON with several different types, not a "type" in itself.---At least THATS where I am coming from.

If a person Wants to dress as a member of the opposite sex--there IS a REASON for it (hense the other terms) He does not Crossdress "because he is a Crossdresser". Thats like saying "I dress as a woman because I dress as a woman"

Part of the problem, here I think is that In the UK and US we often use different words, so our terminology might be culturally different. The other problem is that terminology has changed over the decades, as more and more distinct reasons or Types of crossdressing behaviour were discovered and defined.

Book authors, and psychologists not specializing in identity and gender issues and behind the times, usually rely what they were taught in school many years ago, which was usually a short chapter or page on "sexual deviations" written many years before that, when the mere act of wearing "inapproprate clothing" was supposed to suggest "homosexual tendancies",or whatever. As if it were a 'perversion" unique to itself.
It was given the term "Transvestisim"-- much later on, Cross Dressing behaviour was found to be symptomatic of several different "perversions" and not a "pervision" in itself---(We have since gotten away fron the term 'perversion')

Transvestisim has since been re-defined in terms and as ONE of the reasons for cross dressing---

There are also a few CD reasons that haven't a proper Term applied to them yet.---Like for the "Escapist" type who CDs to escape FROM his Identity (usually for stress releif) as opposed to those who CD to escape TO what they consider their "real" fem Self. (Transsexual?) So really, the categorization system is not really fully established even now.--which can lead to confusion.

But most of all, the confusion comes from people borrowing their definitions from older , "Dated" sources. ---And THOSE sources from different eras that represent a different degree of understanding of the categories behind the act.

When discussing such subject matters one needs to define one's terms to one's own understanding, so that one's listeners and readers will know what the terms or the arguement are meant to mean.---We should never assume that Everyone shares the same definition of Crossdresser or Transvestite. and we are not talking just the use of different terminology for the same thing---but entire concepts (or lack of them)

[FionaAlexis]

Definitions of terms which appear in the Gay and Lesbian Section of the Edinburgh Pubs Guide:

Transsexual
A transsexual is a person who wishes to be considered by society as a member of the oppostite sex.
A transsexual is a person who has ungone a sex change opperation.



Can't you Edinburgh pub crawlers content yourselves with the Guinness Book of Records and grizzling about Hearts and Hibs?

- So I'm not transexual then? Is this an either/or? Or both? situation.

Anyway I agree with you - it's all about the nasty 'S' word.


Fiona xx

[Fiona K]

Can't you Edinburgh pub crawlers content yourselves with the Guinness Book of Records and grizzling about Hearts and Hibs?

- So I'm not transexual then? Is this an either/or? Or both? situation.

Anyway I agree with you - it's all about the nasty 'S' word.


Fiona xx

Well Fiona,
Loath as I am to even discuss the sordid subject of football (sorry US Girls- Soccer, more proof of the langauge thing!!), the jam tarts will be slaughtered by tomorrow Rangers, unfortunately.

Yeah, the "S" word is not to be mentioned incase it frightens the horses (or the religious right on both sides of the pond!)

Fiona
xx

[ladyfydiana]

As long as we know who we are why do we need labels?Just enjoy being women and let the rest figure out who we are.

[FionaAlexis]

As long as we know who we are why do we need labels?Just enjoy being women and let the rest figure out who we are.

Hi Diana,

I agree with the sentiments and certainly the semantics of crossdresser v transvestite seem pretty irrelevant to me. But we do seem to need a nice label.

And it comes in handy when you're explaining what you are to family or friends.

But most times we can live without them.


Fiona xx

[Lauren_T]

Of course, you are spot on, Fiona.

Labels are just a tool. They can be misused, or misapplied - but they are also absolutely necessary to communication. Rejection of labels is no more sensible than the opposite - sticking a label on something and then letting the label define the thing. The wisest course is to use them appropriately.

We, in order to work toward acceptance by society at large, must present an image to that society, and what we are labelled will affect society's impression of us, possibly for the good, possibly not.

Our choice of how we are to be identified - how we label ourselves - as a group, will have a quite significant impact on whether or not we will continue to be misunderstood, or be seen as something we are not.

[Anne Charlotte]

I am a Transvestite, i consider the fact that i dress and make up fully, shave all over, use foundation, paint nails, wear wig and go outdoors dressed up that i am a TV. For what ever reason, Cross Dressers do not in the main dress and make up fully as females and its that that i think defines TV's and CD's.

I think CD's still get a sexual thrill in the main but i think TV's try to look as much like a woman as they can and socialise more as a woman.


I am a TV by the definition above, but prefer to the term 'crossdresser'.....less clinical (sic). But, when I am en-femme, I am woman.

[CaptLex]

When discussing such subject matters one needs to define one's terms to one's own understanding, so that one's listeners and readers will know what the terms or the arguement are meant to mean.---We should never assume that Everyone shares the same definition of Crossdresser or Transvestite. and we are not talking just the use of different terminology for the same thing---but entire concepts (or lack of them).

Thank you so much, Marina, for your detailed, yet clear explanations. This is one of the topics I hoped to discuss when I joined this forum as I've been confused about the terminology for a long time. I now see that many people have different definitions and I shouldn't assume that there is a "one size fits all" term for my cross-dressing. Thank you also to others who have helped me fill in some of the gaps. It's not so much that I care what others call me, but I'd like to be sure what to call myself. :rolleyes:

I'm a born female who occasionally dresses as a male to express my male side and because it de-stresses me and makes me feel comfortable. Now I realize some people would see me as a transvestite, while others would define me as a cross-dresser with transgender issues. Whatever it is to others depends on who I'm talking to, I guess. I'm learning, I'm learning . . . :cool:

[ladyfydiana]

Hi Diana,

I agree with the sentiments and certainly the semantics of crossdresser v transvestite seem pretty irrelevant to me. But we do seem to need a nice label.

And it comes in handy when you are telling you're explaining what you are to family or friends.

But most times we can live without them.


Fiona xx
Hello Fiona

I guess sometimes we do need to know who we are so we can explain to someone who doesnt.

[Trinity_cat]

Two countries devided by a comon language.

Transvestism was the word given to men who like to dress in womens clothing- sexualy motivated or otherwise- about 100 years ago. It is a bit clinical and as such in the US seems to hav edropped from favour, particulalry as some organsiations don't like the link to sexuality. Crossdresser then became the preferred term

In the UK no such hang-up really exists and the term Transvestite or Tranny is a a badge worn with a certain amount of pride.

Check out Helen Boyd's brilliant "My Husband Betty" for more on this. And a poke a those who say sex has nothing to do with dressing!!
Fiona
xx
I'd say transvestite and crossdresser are one and the same.

Fiona gives a good answer here but then she is a "clever wee lassie" in my book. Not much cop at predicting football scores though...hmmm

[Fiona K]

I'd say transvestite and crossdresser are one and the same.

Fiona gives a good answer here but then she is a "clever wee lassie" in my book. Not much cop at predicting football scores though...hmmm

Nope, not good at football (prediction or otherwise), never was, was always better at (Field) Hockey!! Sadly wan't allowed the nice wee skirts the girls wore..... :(

Fiona
xx

[MarinaTwelve200]

I'd say transvestite and crossdresser are one and the same.


But Transsexuals and drag queens dress as women (Crossdress) too. How do we know what YOU are or where you are comming from if you just describe a person by an act common to many types?

If you mean that transvestite may include ANY person that dresses in the clothes of the opposite bio-sex, and for any reason, I can see where the CD and TV terms may be interchangable---its just a terminology thing.

But if you mean somthing more specific, like a HETRO person who dresses in the clothing of the opposite sex, as opposed to a TS, for example, who also crossdresses, you need to use a different term to differientiat how TS crossdressing is different from Hetro CD/TV. If only for the sake of conducting a logical discussion where all participants agree on definitions.

This is usually done by using a uniform term for the common act itself--which can be either CD or TV, and the other term for a more specific variant of one who does the act.

[Helen MC]

I first encountered the term "Transvestite" in Forum Magazine in the late 1960s and thought "That's me!" . Without any critical or derorgatory terms the definition was given as "a person, more usually male, who gets sexual pleasure from wearing clothing designated as appropriate for the opposite gender" . It then went on to describe various degrees of TV, the knicker and panty fetishist, which is primarily my situation, the person who dresses up at home or in privacy, (again my situation), then the TV who goes out en-femme, those who live their life in female clothing and as females and finally pre operative and post operative TS people. For 1969 this was a very informed and open-minded article.

Now over here in the UK the word "Transvestite" has not attracted the perjorative aspect that it seems to have in the USA. I can even remember seeing the first "Antony Perkins" version of Hitchcock's "Psycho" and at the end when it is revealed that he dressed up as his late and mummified mother to commit the murders, one of the cops is heard to growl "He's a Transvestite!" in a manner which indicates that he considered that as offensive to his values as the fact that Bates had brutally murdered both the young woman guest and the Private Eye sent to look for her.

Nowadays I would consider myself more of a "Crossdresser" as I both wear women's panties and knickers 24/7, and when at home and in privacy I wear other female clothing such as skirts, bras (padded out), stockings and suspenders (garter belt to US readers) etc but do not try to pass myself off as a woman nor have any desire to go out dressed "en-femme" which to me would be what was required to be considered a "Transvestite" .

Perhaps "Humpty Dumpty" had it right when he said "A word means whatever I declare it to be!"

[FionaAlexis]

Great post - Montfort Cherub - Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I'm a transvestite crossdresser and a crossdressing transvestite.

:twirl:

You're clearly a tautological tranny - who likes to repeat wearing the same clothes twice. :)

Fiona xx

[Helen MC]

Perhaps to put it simply, to me a "Crossdresser" (like myself) is one who primarily wears the clothing of the opposite gender to obtain a sexual thrill from so doing (and who finds women's garments more comfortable especially female underwear) and is quite satisfied with that, a "Transvestite" takes this further as their turn on is not merely from wearing the clothing but from trying as hard as they can to look like and act like a woman and when "en femme" they adopt a female persona and mannerisms. The question might be, when clothed in female garments do you consider yourself a man in women's clothing , no doubt far happier and at ease therein but still a man, or do you feel as if you are a woman? There is a Club here in the UK called "The Muir Academy" where adults can wear School Uniform. They not only have men in short trousers , school caps, blazers etc and women in Schoolgirl Uniform but also many men who dress up in Schoolgirl Uniform , pleated skirts or gymslips, blouses, white socks or black lisle stockings and of course navy blue or bottle green knickers. They refer to these men as "Special Girls".

This may not be a textbook explanation but it works for me.

[oztallulah]

I have to agree to that one. We will be what we will be, no more, no less, but usually just enough. For ourselves, and maybe anyone close to us.