How many of you are straight but flirt with men anyway? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

cdona20

03-13-2011, 04:35 PM

I'm part of a rather large online LGBT organization where members can access other member's pictures with a single click of the mouse. This sometimes gets me attention from both genders in the organization, but mostly bisexual men. When men start hitting on me the first thing I do is tell them what my underwear is covering and so far that has deterred none of them (I know that might sound silly to assume a bisexual man might be turned off but I figure maybe some men like both peanut butter and chocolate but hate a Resses Cup).

For the record, I'm straight (or Lesbian, whatever fits best).

So when none of them are turned off when I reveal I'm a CD, I usually let them flirt with me and I flirt right back. I like the attention and when a particularly handsome guy puts the moves on me, it feels so good to know he considers me "in his league". I usually try to stop it before it gets obscene but lets just say I've seen my fair share of unsolicited nude photos.

Anywho I just wondered if anyone else who was straight/lesbian liked to flirt with men or has any interesting stories to share.

prene

03-13-2011, 04:48 PM

Yes,
I have but I very rarely go out by myself.
Safety in numbers, it is nice that the guys talk to you as a woman, I get a thrill out of that.
Most of the time they can tell after I say a few words.

It has scared me that I when I feel I look good (very feminine) I look and think about guys as a girl.

But only when I dress.

and I thought/think I am straight.

Byron

03-13-2011, 04:59 PM

Only with my friends, safer that way. ;)

Most of them know I'm a little strange anyway.

docrobbysherry

03-13-2011, 07:56 PM

I didn't use to, but NOW I do! It's all harmless, really. If it gets nasty, I hit "DELETE"!

I recently posted a thread on this VERY subject, Cdona! There were a number of interesting replies if u can find it!

By the way, I'd be VERY SURPRISED if u didn't get hit on! You're avatar pic is very pretty!

dsweet

03-13-2011, 09:15 PM

I'm straight, but I have to agree that the thought of men from a woman's perspective definitely comes into play for me. Most of the time this manifests as mental imagery of faceless men and the thought of me doing "naughty" things to them, seeing as how I feel so beautiful/sexy at the times that I have those thoughts.

...but I figure maybe some men like both peanut butter and chocolate but hate a Resses Cup). - LOL!!! That's priceless :D

But to answer the thread question, I haven't had the opportunity as I have yet to go out en femme. One day.. :heehee:

P.S. - Your avatar pic is very pretty :)

Stephenie S

03-13-2011, 09:23 PM

Suzette Muguet de Mai

03-13-2011, 09:23 PM

I say tread wisely. It only takes one who cannot come to terms with an issue of CD that brings about pain. Online groups maybe ok to flirt for now, but in reality you just need to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time and be confronted by that wrong person even in male/female mode.

katesometimes

03-13-2011, 09:24 PM

I have never gone out dressed, but in online games and chatrooms I have always played female characters but when asked identified myself as a crossdresser. Regardless, I'm a shameless flirt in these arenas. In real life, I'd probably rarely be out without my wife and would be less likely to flirt.

CarlaWestin

03-13-2011, 09:32 PM

I think flirting is just part of the online experience. The anonymity of it all promotes flirting. I have a good online friend that knows that I'm not gay even though I make comments about his sexy a@@. Who knows, that guy flirting with you might just be your Aunt Myrtle.

Barbara Dugan

03-13-2011, 09:34 PM

I am not straight, I flirt with guys all the time and some of them tell me they are straight:D..but to be honest I only take seriously the ones that state they are gay or bisexual.. I agree on the feel good feeling of being noticed by nice looking guys, I dont get it very often

StarrOfDelite

03-13-2011, 10:20 PM

sissystephanie

03-13-2011, 10:30 PM

When my wife was still alive, and did Stephanie's makeup and wig, I did occasionally get flirted with. But since I was a very happily married man, my response was always something to put a total stop to the flirting. Now that she is gone, even though I do go out dressed I still look like the man that I am since I wear no makeup or a wig. So I certainly don't get flirted with. And at my advanced age I really don't care!!

Michelle.M

03-13-2011, 10:38 PM

Excuse me?

I have a great deal of trouble believing that you are "straight" and still want to have anything to do with flirting with men.

I suppose it all depends on how you see yourself, or (dare I say it?) what label you attach to yourself.

If you are a straight and crossdress, that makes sense. But remember there are many on this site who are in various stages of transition also, who do not identify themselves so much as crossdressers but rather they identify as transsexual. Unless they also identify as transbians it sort of follows that for them there will be some flirting with men.

katesometimes

03-13-2011, 10:39 PM

You are so pretty that I refuse to believe that you don't get hit-on by nice looking guys, Barbara.

Me too! You are adorable.

katesometimes

03-13-2011, 10:44 PM

Excuse me?

I have a great deal of trouble believing that you are "straight" and still want to have anything to do with flirting with men. Shakespeare had something to say about this. Something about protesting too much?

We hear a whole lot of "I'm not gay, but . . . . . . .", around here.

JMHO

S

I've struggled with how to define myself, even more so since coming here. I consider myself somewhat bi, but my only sex partner has been my wife. I have felt a sexual attraction to a few guys in the past, but it's rare and usually more their personality than anything else. I have never looked at a guy and said "I want him!"...well until coming here. So many of you girls are beautiful and sexy, but I see a women when I look at so many of you too...

dsweet

03-13-2011, 10:54 PM

...well until coming here. So many of you girls are beautiful and sexy, but I see a women when I look at so many of you too...

Agreed! It's really something to see the inner person permeate the exterior..

cdona20

03-13-2011, 10:55 PM

Excuse me?

I have a great deal of trouble believing that you are "straight" and still want to have anything to do with flirting with men. Shakespeare had something to say about this. Something about protesting too much?

We hear a whole lot of "I'm not gay, but . . . . . . .", around here.

JMHO

S

Well as I said, I like to flirt with men because of the attention I get. They compliment my looks, and some of my other features (smart, funny) and it makes me feel so feminine. And when they begin to describe sexual escapades (the point where I try to end it), it just feels good to know that I am so desirable that they would do stuff to me.

But I know for a fact that I am not bisexual because men (naked or clothed) do nothing for me down there.

katesometimes

03-13-2011, 11:04 PM

Well as I said, I like to flirt with men because of the attention I get. The compliment my looks, and some of my other features (smart, funny) and it makes me feel so feminine. And when they begin to describe sexual escapades (the point where I try to end it), it just feels good to know that I am so desireable that they would do stuff to me.

Christie, I think your look (at least your avatar pic) is desirable to a lot of men. You have kind of a artsy rebel look to you. I know GG's with that look definitely work for me, even though I tend to go for the more mousy sexy types generally.

Misti

03-14-2011, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Tatyana "...well until coming here. So many of you girls are beautiful and sexy, but I see a women when I look at so many of you too.... Christie, I think your look (at least your avatar pic) is [highly] desirable to a lot of men."

Originally Posted by dsweet "Agreed! It's really something to see the inner person permeate the exterior..."

Agreed! And, Agreed! And Misti could very well be a real flirt, too, if she were ever to escape the hen house alone? That moment of truth seems to be fast approaching, too, because she's only been out in male (head)/female (bodice) mode twice now (no wig or makeup and with the SO only) and she really dug "wiggling 'back there' while she walked" in her "new" Marilyn Monroe Shaping Briefs worn under her "new" tight, tight-fitting black women's pants? Anxiously looking forward to seeing what happens in the next episode, but still thinking lesbian, yet! :battingeyelashes:

BTW It's easy to see from this vantage point why they do hit on you, Cdona. Enjoy! :)

ReineD

03-14-2011, 02:18 AM

it is nice that the guys talk to you as a woman, I get a thrill out of that.

I'm straight, but I have to agree that the thought of men from a woman's perspective definitely comes into play for me. Most of the time this manifests as mental imagery of faceless men and the thought of me doing "naughty" things to them, seeing as how I feel

They compliment my looks, and some of my other features (smart, funny) and it makes me feel so feminine.

This has come up before, so if you'll bear with me, there's something I'd like to ask and not being TG it's more complicated for me, so I need to use a lot of words. lol

First, I do understand that when you are dressed, a guy's attention makes you feel more feminine because his masculinity puts your feminity in even greater contrast and it heightens it, compared to when you are with a woman who has an innate femininity. This part is easy to understand.

But this is what I don't get: regardless of whether you (and others) are attracted to men or not (since this isn't the point of my question), I gather a big part of the thrill is, you feel the admirers are treating you like women. But from everything I've read from people who have active profiles on those sites, the admirers are after TGs for the very thing that TGs are masking when they dress, namely, their male bits. Guys who are after TGs (for the most part) are not interested in post-ops. Or GGs. (Not the true admirers). Granted, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm just talking in general about the admirers who hang out in CD forums and dating sites and in TG bars. I also know the type well from my own personal experience, having gone to TG bars with my SO. One admirer even sent a napkin to my SO with a proposition written on it, while she and I were sitting together. lol. (I felt bad for her ... I wanted to joke about it but she was embarrassed).

Which brings me to my question ... doesn't this present a conflict for you? Does knowing that an admirer sees you fundamentally as a guy and he's just doing what guys do when they want sex, make you feel any less feminine? Or is this something you just don't like to think about when you are dressed? I hope you don't mind my asking, but it does fit in with the thread topic.

It just seems to me there are two different agendas going on between CDs and admirers and I was wondering if knowing the reality of it all makes any difference to your feminine feelings that become enhanced when you think they are seeing you as women. Or, like I said, does it make any difference?

I admire the brave souls who will tackle my question. :hugs:

Rogina B

03-14-2011, 06:16 AM

For me,it is about enjoying a little slice of "the power of the pussycat".Just getting to experience a little bit of the control that many women exude.It is more than just getting attention,it is also about control[girl is in charge of the dumb boys..girl keeps them focused on the project..girl tells them how to do it better,or prettier,or what to wear,or say,etc] I enjoy that form of control..As for flirting,the girl doesn't have to do a thing sometimes...a vague answer to a pointed question,or a slit in a skirt,or the glimpse of a garter...It just doesn't take much to rise to power! lol

cdona20

03-14-2011, 11:52 AM

Which brings me to my question ... doesn't this present a conflict for you? Does knowing that an admirer sees you fundamentally as a guy and he's just doing what guys do when they want sex, make you feel any less feminine? Or is this something you just don't like to think about when you are dressed? I hope you don't mind my asking, but it does fit in with the thread topic.

I never really thought of it that way before. But having been hit on before without revealing my true gender to the perpetrator, I gotta say it isn't all that different than when they know I'm a CD. They say the same things, give the same compliments. So the attention doesn't feel any different.

I actually once turned a straight guy on to CD/TS. He doesn't like men at all except when they look like women (very passable women). I think that should count as evidence that CD/TS admirers don't see us fundamentally as guys but rather that they see us as women with a rather unfortunate birth defect.

So in the end I don't feel any less feminine because alot of the guys turned on by me may still identify as straight and are attracted to my womanly characteristics.

RenneB

03-14-2011, 11:56 AM

Well now that's a subject I never thought of. I would consider myself a lover of the females only. If I do get to pass someday, I hope its with a woman.

Renne.....

Sophie86

03-14-2011, 12:21 PM

I think that should count as evidence that CD/TS admirers don't see us fundamentally as guys but rather that they see us as women with a rather [-]unfortunate[/-] fortunate birth defect.

Fixed that for ya. ;)

:heehee:

Thea Pauline

03-14-2011, 12:50 PM

Reine,

As interest from men is not in any way the reason I dress, I do not flirt. In fact, if I were out and about and experienced interest from a man, I would be uncomfortable, not due to any phobia, just not why I dress.
I am happily married and monogamous and really have no interest in other partners. When I'm dressed, one of my best fantasies is to be accepted by a group of women, such as a book club or other womens' social gathering. So, I guess for me, the dressing has gone far beyond any sexual connotation and is now another aspect of how I live my day to day life.
As far as how an admirer might view the situation, I'm don't mind serving as fantasy fodder, but will not do anything to further that agenda.

Renae

helencarpenter

03-14-2011, 03:11 PM

Well I'm definitely still in the closet, but I kind of do this. I don't know if any of you have ever heard of omegle, but it's a random, anonymous video chatting site. I like to get dressed up and try to talk to people on there, to build my confidence to the point where I can leave the house. I never take it too far, but it does make me feel kind of good that some guys really, really want to talk to me, so I do kind of return the flirting.

It might be weird, but it's my way of building confidence.

sandra-leigh

03-14-2011, 04:30 PM

I don't Pass even fully dressed, not even at a distance in bad light. If some guy gets up close enough to sit near me and still can't decide what my face suggests more, then the guy is too drunk to want anything to deal with anyhow, and said drunk doesn't get straight answers out of me about my gender.

A guy who is not drunk is probably pretty sure I was born male. If he asks anyhow, to be sure, he gets an answer, and I then proceed to bore him about how hard it is to find clothes and so on. It usually doesn't take long for the message to get through that I'm not there to be picked up.

I don't flirt with the guys; I don't know how to flirt with anyone. The only person I know of who is worse at flirting than I am, is my wife.

seanmuscle

03-14-2011, 04:57 PM

cdona20

03-14-2011, 05:19 PM

Michelle.M

03-14-2011, 05:30 PM

I admire the brave souls who will tackle my question. :hugs:

Hmmm . . . well, that's not me (at least for now), although I definitely know what's going on inside my own head. But this thread has suddenly gotten much more interesting! I will stay tuned to see what sort of dialogue develops.

ReineD

03-14-2011, 05:41 PM

CDs just want to be loved by a strong masculine man just like any other girl. Men that date CDs are not into the male parts. In most relationships the CD assumes the more submissive feminine role while the man assumes the dominant protective role. Same goes in the bedroom. Masculinity complements femininity.l

Sean, if you go through and read older posts on the topic, you'll find reports by TSs who've been active on TG dating sites and who say that most of the admirers are not interested in post-ops.

Of course this doesn't describe everyone and I respect your personal preferences. But, I do have a question. What is it about CDs specifically that attracts you? If you were attracted to femininity, you'd be attracted to GGs as well?

There are plenty of people who are bi, and who base their attraction on a person's inner being more than anatomy. But, it follows that such attractions would be developed after they get to know a potential partner in real life? If there's a deliberate choice to hang out in places where the feminine members have male anatomy, then surely this has something to do with the attraction?

I may be missing something here, and I don't want to offend anyone with my question. But honestly, I don't follow the logic here.

seanmuscle

03-14-2011, 05:43 PM

Sean, you are making some pretty big assumptions there. The way you talk makes it seem like you are speaking for all CDs. You must understand that not all ideal relationships for a CD are like that. I personally have a GF who I am pretty much en femme with whenever she is around and I am by far and away the butch in the relationship (at least in comparison to her). And frankly I wouldn't have it any other way. She is my ideal partner, pretty, smart and way fem. I know I started this thread to discuss flirting with guys (my GF and I have an "open" relationship) but really, I don't ever want to be in a relationship with someone who is masculine.

Just my 2 cents.

Look you love when your buddy flirted with you and unfortunately he abused that trust. But I have seen it happen all to often with CDs. Progression from fantasies, to flirting with men etc... It grows over time. When he looks at you and treats you like a woman you feel weak, excited and giddy like a school girl. Being with a man will make you feel like a real woman.

No, you are talking about sites like craigslist where unfortunately pervs with fetish go. Men do have attraction to CDs if she is passable just like any other GG. And there is no agenda. CDs are treated just like any other girl. And it works both ways because most CDs state they like to be the woman in the relationship. If I am not mistaken a CD member here actually has a marriage with a very straight acting man. She is that petite CD. I forgot her name though.

cdona20

03-14-2011, 06:01 PM

Whoa there pardner! As good as it feels to be treated feminine it does not induce some sort of craving for male genitalia. It was fun to flirt with my friend but if I had more time to spend with my girlfriend, I probably wouldn't need to get my attention fix from men. It's fun to tease, exhilarating even, but it's just that, teasing. If I could describe it in a more rude and crude way on this forum I would but I must keep this in good taste.

My GF does just fine in treating me like a lady and that is all I'll ever truly want or need.

ReineD

03-14-2011, 06:45 PM

No, you are talking about sites like craigslist where unfortunately pervs with fetish go. Men do have attraction to CDs if she is passable just like any other GG. And there is no agenda.

So, you didn't answer my question. :D

What particularly attracts you to a CD that you don't know, over a GG?

Barbara Dugan

03-14-2011, 07:00 PM

It just seems to me there are two different agendas going on between CDs and admirers and I was wondering if knowing the reality of it all makes any difference to your feminine feelings that become enhanced when you think they are seeing you as women. Or, like I said, does it make any difference?

I admire the brave souls who will tackle my question. :hugs:

Interesting Question Reine, I don't claim to be an expert but I can answer based on my personal experience...I only have attraction for masculine guys and yes the feeling its greatly enhanced when they treat you like a woman..I think the admirers cant really be stereotyped as the same way CDs can't be...I've been fortunate to meet some real nice admirers..I think I can't be much specific about it because of the nature of this forum ... but what I can tell and assure is that I gave all my body and soul to enjoy that moment regardless of the agenda

Gaby2

03-14-2011, 07:17 PM

You are catching quite a few of us off-guard here cdona!

I'll flirt with almost anyone, at almost any time, almost anywhere - the sillier the better - for me it's a good laugh! Everyone takes things so seriously!
I try not to embarass anybody and it normally gets a conversation off to a good start!
However, when I'm drunk I've learnt to keep my mouth shut and not try to flirt.

Admittably, it used to bother me slightly that I might be sending misleading signals to friends of mine, particularly those who are gay.
At some stage I realised that everybody is as (dis)interested in me as I am in them.
So I feel quite secure flirting with men and/or women.

Now, everyone only knows closet-me in drab, and I'm pretty drabby in everyday casual-look.
I would dearly love to show-off and flirt like you!

Recently I landed a new, rather young hairdresser. He's talented and he made me look great for a concert. I find him attractive, especially because he makes such a big deal of my "fabulous" hair. I never thought I would ever fall for flattery!!!:battingeyelashes:
... and I would love to see what he would make of me as a woman:daydreaming:
Gaby

ReineD

03-14-2011, 08:09 PM

but what I can tell and assure is that I gave all my body and soul to enjoy that moment regardless of the agenda

Yeah, but it's different for you! You're gay and proud of it, no matter how you dress. :hugs:

I guess my question is addressed more to the self-identified hetero CDers who don't normally have an attraction to men except when they're dressed and who, for the reasons explained above, find it exciting and thrilling when a man is attracted to them while dressed. Again, do they realize that when this happens the man is also attracted to the very thing they seek to hide when they are dressed. Does it ruin the fantasy if they know and feel this?

cdona20

03-14-2011, 08:38 PM

docrobbysherry

03-14-2011, 08:44 PM

Yeah, but it's different for you! You're gay and proud of it, no matter how you dress. :hugs:

I guess my question is addressed more to the self-identified hetero CDers who don't normally have an attraction to men except when they're dressed and who, for the reasons explained above, find it exciting and thrilling when a man is attracted to them while dressed. Again, do they realize that when this happens the man is also attracted to the very thing they seek to hide when they are dressed. Does it ruin the fantasy if they know and feel this?

I may NOT be in your target demographic exactly, Reine, but I am a straight CD who NOW flirts! There's NOTHING about males that turns me on. However, after years of replying, "U know, I'm straight?", now I usually give a compliment or sexy tease to the guys and CDs who say nice respectful things about Sherry! If they get dirty or pushy, they get deleted!

Here's something u need to know, also. There's a big difference between flirting online and in person! Online, yeah I do, with a sweet guy! In person? I NEVER would!

katesometimes

03-14-2011, 08:50 PM

Which brings me to my question ... doesn't this present a conflict for you? Does knowing that an admirer sees you fundamentally as a guy and he's just doing what guys do when they want sex, make you feel any less feminine? Or is this something you just don't like to think about when you are dressed? I hope you don't mind my asking, but it does fit in with the thread topic.

It just seems to me there are two different agendas going on between CDs and admirers and I was wondering if knowing the reality of it all makes any difference to your feminine feelings that become enhanced when you think they are seeing you as women. Or, like I said, does it make any difference?

I admire the brave souls who will tackle my question. :hugs:

I'll try and tackle this...For me it's all part of the illusion. I know I'm not a woman and will never look like one, but to be treated like one for whatever reason makes me feel special. And I'll play along, up to a point, and that's mostly because I'm in a wonderful monogamous relationship with my wife.

ReineD

03-14-2011, 08:57 PM

The part of us admirers are attracted to that you are focusing on isn't the only thing they are attracted to. Seanmuscle said it himself, he is only attracted to CDs that can pass. Even CD admirers have standards. He may be attracted to your boy parts but that is only a small piece of the whole picture. So when a guy flirts with you it is a sign that your womanly parts, the parts you actually put effort into making less masculine, check out. And as I tried to imply in the OP, most of the time men don't even know I have boy parts to hide when they start out so it all doesn't really bother me at all.

I hear what you're saying, and it's true that in your pic you don't look like a guy. But this is not true for a large numbers of the CDers who get hit on when they are dressed. We're getting back to the old question, which is how realistic is it to believe that CDers can make others believe they are GGs? Sadly, this doesn't happen all too often especially in real life unless a CD is young, lithe, fairly small for a guy, and does not have an overly masculine physiognomy. And from what I read here, it also take dozens of pics before finding just the right one where the gender lines are blurred.

I think it's pretty safe to say that in most cases, the admirers or men who are attracted to CDs know that the CDs are guys who are dressed. Granted, the attraction for these men is the fact that the CD is dressed, over an attraction to a guy who is not dressed. So yes, the attraction is to feminine men, but men just the same. This is why I said there was a different agenda, since in the CDer's mind at that moment, she is a girl and not a guy in a dress. If that makes sense.

So, since there hasn't been a stampede to answer my question, lol, I'm thinking that fundamentally the CDer (generally speaking) knows it is all a fantasy, but makes the subconscious decision to go ahead and throw herself into the fantasy, simply because it is too much fun. During these times it would be counter productive to ask herself too many questions about what the admirers are really after? I'm just guessing here.

Rogina B

03-14-2011, 09:25 PM

As I posted before..if the fantasy is the "power of the pussycat" count me in! I enjoy playing the part and wish i had been born a "trophy wife" rather than the guy bringing home the bacon.

busker

03-14-2011, 09:51 PM

I think it's pretty safe to say that in most cases, the admirers or men who are attracted to CDs know that the CDs are guys who are dressed.

Some months ago, someone posted a link to a study that suggested (if I remember correctly) that ultimately, most TS people are gay, and that I would assume means pre-op, post-op and no-op. No-op would then be kind of equal to a cd equipment-wise. I discount the hormones because they would have the same effect on a straight male who had NO interest in being a cd as they would on a TG/TS person.
Someone made the joke about what is the difference between a cd and a ts? 2 years was the answer, implying that eventually we are all headed to the same end, whether we have srs or not, as the case may be.

I'll try to ask this in as neutral a way as possible so as not to offend any reader here, and no offense is meant.

From having looked at some "*******" sites in the past, my take is that the study conclusion is accurate in as much as most of what I saw were "trannies" having gay sex, and that would probably be in the same proportion to sites featuring women who pose as opposed to women who are engaged in some sexual play with a male who may be gay or not as I understand it to be standard practice in the porn business.

So my question to you Reine is, are you suggesting that many Cds might be either closeted or openly bi-sexual or homosexuals in that they strive to appear as feminine as possible in order to attract males, who as you have pointed out, know that they have the male naughty bits under their skirts, and the ultimate goal is sexual in nature? And, dressing is merely a way to avoid the label of gay, as long as it can be seen by the Cd as a fantasy? As I have pointed out before, there is an awful high interest in threads like "dating Cds", "would you date...." . I think that I also exempt the fetishists and hobbyists from my question as they seem to have a clear agenda that doesn't necessarily involve attracting males for sex.

I think we all like to look to the psychological or biological answers as to why we do wear women's clothing, but it could be that we are so clever that we can find other ways to rationalize our inner natures to be as least abhorrent as possible.:2c:

Barbara Dugan

03-14-2011, 10:27 PM

I think it's pretty safe to say that in most cases, the admirers or men who are attracted to CDs know that the CDs are guys who are dressed. Granted, the attraction for these men is the fact that the CD is dressed, over an attraction to a guy who is not dressed. So yes, the attraction is to feminine men, but men just the same. This is why I said there was a different agenda, since in the CDer's mind at that moment, she is a girl and not a guy in a dress. If that makes sense.
.
It doesn't because the vast majority of male admirers identify themselves as straight..Oddly enough the handful of female admirers that I've came across identified themselves as Bisexual
Now you have a Hetero CD flirting with an straight guy....I wonder what happen when the fantasy became reality?

Michelle.M

03-14-2011, 10:30 PM

Some months ago, someone posted a link to a study that suggested (if I remember correctly) that ultimately, most TS people are gay . . .

I don't want to sound like some sort if gender nazi, nor do I want to stifle dialogue, but you might want to do a little research on this one.

The notion that most TS are gay was an assertion by a variety of 1970's era practioners such as J. Michael Bailey, Paul Blanchard and similar so-called researchers. Fundamentally, their theories reinforced negative stereotypes and catered to the agendas of those who wanted to vilify the trans community by playing to conservative and religious interests. Many books have been written to counter this sort of backward thinking by merely demonstrating that the "studies" did not follow established research methodologies and were based on legend and self interest, and thus fundamentally invalid.

In any event, it is unfair to generalize anyone's sexuality, regardless of how they define themselves. To paint pre, post and non-op TS, and crossdressers as well, with the same brush denies individuality and is no better than doing the same thing to members of any other diverse group of people, hetero or otherwise.

Ultimately, it is the person herself, or himself, who has the right and privilege to define their own sexuality, and not anyone else. If a TS in any one of the op-states I have mentioned says "Well, I am a ____ and I prefer to date ___ " that does not give anyone the right to say "Baloney. They were born with a penis so they're gay. End of discussion." To be frank, that is the same sort of thinking that has at a minimum marginalized the TG community for so long and these outdated beliefs serve only as roadblocks to acceptance and integration, and reinforce shame and prevent people struggling with accepting their own gender identity from getting help to understand themselves and move forward in their lives.

Finally, believing that looking at ******* websites will give anyone insight as to what transsexuals are all about is like trying to understand what teachers, secretaries and airline flight attendants are like by looking at other porn sites. I've logged hundreds of thousands of air miles and not once have I ever seen a flight attendant have sex with a passenger. These are porn sites They're fantasy, they are entertainment, and nothing more, and should not be regarded as a reliable barometer of anything other than what is marketable for that particular audience.

ReineD

03-14-2011, 10:36 PM

So my question to you Reine is, are you suggesting that many Cds might be either closeted or openly bi-sexual or homosexuals in that they strive to appear as feminine as possible in order to attract males, who as you have pointed out, know that they have the male naughty bits under their skirts, and the ultimate goal is sexual in nature? And, dressing is merely a way to avoid the label of gay, as long as it can be seen by the Cd as a fantasy?

There may be some CDers who fit this description, but I don't think it's true for most.

Experts say that gender ID is not tied to sexual preference. But, I do believe the very nature of being gender fluid (I'm speaking of CDers here and not TSs, who do know that they are women) makes it easier to be sexually fluid as well. Gender is not cut and dried, so it makes sense that sexuality isn't either.

Having said this, there are hetero CDs who say that once they're in the bedroom with a guy after all the clothes have come off, the illusion is shattered and they are turned off. So the attraction isn't to the guy, but rather, it is to be desired as a woman. The guys just come in handy during the fantasy for the reasons mentioned earlier. If anything, I would define this as a variation of 'autogynephilia' (the love of oneself as a woman), but with the blank image of a guy thrown in (or an anonymous guy via the internet) to make the experience all the more real.

Keep in mind, everything I say is pure conjecture and they're just ideas I'm bringing forth in case some people want to try them on to see if they fit.

Some CDers here have said they've been with men dressed and they've loved every minute and would do it again and since you ask, I do think these people are either gay or bi, or top of being transgender. There's nothing wrong with that. The importance is for them to know who they are, so they don't get into relationships with GGs and say they are straight.

And then there are the many other CDers who don't look for sexual experiences with men when they're dressed at all, or who've tried it once and know that it definitely isn't for them.

It doesn't because the vast majority of male admirers identify themselves as straight..

But this is where the logic breaks down. They're not straight if they are specifically attracted to men (or if you prefer, a feminine person who also has a penis), are they? They aren't attracted to GGs and again, from what I've read they're not attracted to post-op transwomen either.

Sandy Banks

03-14-2011, 10:36 PM

busker

03-15-2011, 12:10 AM

The notion that most TS are gay was an assertion by a variety of 1970's era practioners such as J. Michael Bailey, Paul Blanchard and similar so-called researchers.
I wasn't trying to define anyone, merely parroting what I thought that I remembered with regard to the conclusion of a study someone mentioned.
In any event, it is unfair to generalize anyone's sexuality, regardless of how they define themselves. To paint pre, post and non-op TS, and crossdressers as well, with the same brush denies individuality and is no better than doing the same thing to members of any other diverse group of people, hetero or otherwise.
We all have some common characteristics and we all make some generalizations because trying to indentify everyone in every context would be tedious beyond belief.

Ultimately, it is the person herself, or himself, who has the right and privilege to define their own sexuality, and not anyone else. If a TS in any one of the op-states I have mentioned says "Well, I am a ____ and I prefer to date ___ " that does not give anyone the right to say "Baloney. They were born with a penis so they're gay. End of discussion." To be frank, that is the same sort of thinking that has at a minimum marginalized the TG community for so long and these outdated beliefs serve only as roadblocks to acceptance and integration, and reinforce shame and prevent people struggling with accepting their own gender identity from getting help to understand themselves and move forward in their lives.

Finally, believing that looking at ******* websites will give anyone insight as to what transsexuals are all about is like trying to understand what teachers, secretaries and airline flight attendants are like by looking at other porn sites.
Perhaps it won't explain everything, but if two people are having anal intercourse, then I think it is a safe bet to say that they are NOT heterosexual (although someone may say that they will take pay to be gay.) Hell would freeze over before anyone other than my doctor stuck anything up my butt. So I guess my conclusiion is that if one is have Anal Intercourse, it is likely a gay activity., in my opinion I've logged hundreds of thousands of air miles and not once have I ever seen a flight attendant have sex with a passenger. I've flown a few times myself, and while I have never been in an airplane crash, I do know that they happen
These are porn sites They're fantasy, they are entertainment, and nothing more, and should not be regarded as a reliable barometer of anything other than what is marketable for that particular audience.
I suspect that a lot of standard bedroom fare between males and females is a lot of fantasy, entertainment as well. It may also not be a barometer of how well that couple is doing as a couple either.
I was not meaning to be argumentative, but asking Reine a question based on a conclusion THAT SOMEONE ELSE DREW. the conclusion may have been faulty, but the question remains and could have been asked without mentioning the study, which I did not read, but saw in some thread.
My question was not unlike that asked by many wives of cders--are you gay? It is a valid question and one that can elicit many answers, some perhaps not entirely true. We are very clever as a species, and knowing how many cders here have NOT come out to their SOs, is it any wonder why the question is asked in the first place?
If I have stepped on some toes, it wasn't intentionally done. Any time the motives of people are questioned, somebody is going to feel picked on, but in order to have a dialogue, we need to make some assertions, even if they are later proven wrong. I have not said anything about my views being a world view, nor are they necessarily MY views, just a starting point for discussion.

prene

03-15-2011, 01:08 AM

Your post caused a large response and it provoked me to do some deep thinking. So far I'm straight and have no attraction to males, however if a CD as attractive as you or Barbara Melendez hit on me, I'm pretty sure I'd cross the line........so am I a true lesbian???? or am I just confused????

Sandy,
Thanks for that one.
Well one thing . . . I am confused for sure.
I love being feminine 100% and love the female form.
I guess I am going to see where it all takes me.
I do admit I feel great when when I get males attention and I have thought about it.
But heck, unless I am just so unusuall compared to everyone else I do have intresting thoughts.
Not that I will or will not act on them ... I do wonder.

Heck I wonder what it would be if I was born a woman.

I am just a confused gurl.

Persephone

03-15-2011, 01:33 AM

Anywho I just wondered if anyone else who was straight/lesbian liked to flirt with men or has any interesting stories to share.

I don't deliberately try to flirt with men, but I think that just being "in character" as a woman makes it automatic to be a bit "flirty." Guys are the "opposite sex" after all and most women play a different role in the presence of men than they do when in a group of all women. It just seems appropriate to be a bit softer and sweeter, certainly softer and sweeter than you would be if you were a guy talking to another guy.

Still, just because you like dogs or cats and will pet or play with one at the adoption center it doesn't mean that you want to take one home with you.

This has come up before, so if you'll bear with me, there's something I'd like to ask and not being TG it's more complicated for me, so I need to use a lot of words. lol

Yipes! You've left my poor little brain reeling, Reine! That's like reading science fiction about time travel and "temporal displacement." Shades of Schrodinger's Cat!

I, for one, have no desire to hang around with "admirers." I'm sure they are perfectly lovely people, but they're just not my type.

Hugs,
Persephone.

5150 Girl

03-15-2011, 01:38 AM

Well, I'm not one to initate a flirt, but when a guy flirts with me, I go with it and love every minute of. However, as I find all men to be vile discusting creatures, it will never go past the flirting stage.
I just a validation out of it all. Like I've really "done it right" if you take my meaning.
Of course I grew up having very low self esteeem, so I think I get a high from reciving positive attention from just about anybody.

trina

03-15-2011, 01:42 AM

CDs just want to be loved by a strong masculine man just like any other girl. Men that date CDs are not into the male parts. In most relationships the CD assumes the more submissive feminine role while the man assumes the dominant protective role. Same goes in the bedroom. Masculinity complements femininity.

If you are in a CD relationship with your husband then its not fair for both of you. Because we all know you both deep down want real men as partners. Reine dont take this the wrong way but maybe you are bisexual? That is the only way I see the relationship with your CD husband working lol

hmmm..kinda scary...kind of reminds me of my own little assumptions....not sure if i agree or disagree here..i know i WANT A SUPER MASCULINE MAN in the bedroom that will throw me around and all that wonderfulness--most of the time. Sometimes I want the softer side..I get BOTH....The question is..what does my husband REALLY want? I thought I knew...guess I'll have to wait for him to stumble upon this post and see if he's willing to answer :)

Michelle.M

03-15-2011, 06:12 AM

but if two people are having anal intercourse, then I think it is a safe bet to say that they are NOT heterosexual

Um, you ARE aware that many heterosexual couples also engage in anal sex, right?

I've flown a few times myself, and while I have never been in an airplane crash, I do know that they happen

You're not comparing apples to apples. We all know plane crashes happen because we see it in real life. ******* porn is not real life, and should not be regarded as any indicator of what goes on the heart and soul of someone who identifies as transsexual. If a transwoman tells you she likes men and considers herself to be a heterosexual woman, it is downright ignorant to say "Well, I have studied ******* porn and my deep research into this subject indicates that is not valid."

Please.

Rogina B

03-15-2011, 06:26 AM

And the "straight" admirer named Horndog wrote me and said "I'm straight, but I can really get excited and want to do it with someone that looks as good as you!" In most cases,I think they are "oralists" that are looking to play out a fantasy. Perhaps they have been studying the Brazilian transexuals so they know what all of us have in our panties..lol

NicoleScott

03-15-2011, 07:07 AM

There's a big difference in playing this attention/attraction thing in cyberspace and in real life. There are cd's who like to flirt for attention but would never meet an admirer, and there are admirers who play the game online but would never actually meet a cd.
I used to chat a lot, in crossdresser chat rooms, and have had some very good conversations with cd admirers. As Barbara said, many cd admirers consider themselves straight, even if attracted to feminine-looking cd's but not gg's. I can't explain this. Many, though, are attracted to either cd's or gg's, if their look pushes their arousal button.
And this bring up a reason why some admirers state no interest in male parts. There are cd's who are fetish dressers and like to make up and dress to accentuate those things that excite the cd. There are admirers who also have fetishes but prefer to admire their fetish object on others rather than on themselves. As an over-the-top dresser (for my own pleasure), it's nice to get attention from admirers who like the over-the-top look. Many have told me that they admire cd's because not many women (their words) don't dress and/or make up the way they like. For example, one of the things that characterizes my over-the-top look preference is a heavy application of deep red lipstick. Lipstick fetish is one of the most popular. Admirers have said they would like to kiss me. It's not about me or my cd status, it's about the lipstick fetish. Others have said they would like to touch and kiss my high heels. It's all about the fetish, not me. Some admirers like this use the internet to feed their fetish, and cd's often like the attention. Most, I would guess, would never make it a reality.
I'm sure there are admirers who are attracted to male parts. If much of the general public makes the false assumption that all crossdressers are gay, we might expect some admirers to think so as well. But not all admirers are looking for gay sex, just fetish excitement.

Jay H

03-15-2011, 07:30 AM

When I was younger I created a Myspace page and I would post some pretty provacative pictures and other things on there. I guess it came across as "flirty," but whenever I got any messages from admirers, which happened a lot, I would just delete them. Even the ones that just said "hey" because while I would kind of step into the feminine role while dressed, I never had any desire to actually do anything with another male, including other crossdressers, and never even responded to any of their messages just to chat either. As for in the bedroom, I love being the dominate one who can throw my wife around. I also enjoy when my wife takes over, but I think thats more because I know shes turned on from having control at that point, not because I want to be submissive. I can never stay in the submissive role for very long, and i definately wouldn't want to be submissive to another male, or be with one at all.

Linda Stockings

03-15-2011, 08:48 AM

But this is what I don't get: regardless of whether you (and others) are attracted to men or not (since this isn't the point of my question), I gather a big part of the thrill is, you feel the admirers are treating you like women. But from everything I've read from people who have active profiles on those sites, the admirers are after TGs for the very thing that TGs are masking when they dress, namely, their male bits. Which brings me to my question ... doesn't this present a conflict for you? Does knowing that an admirer sees you fundamentally as a guy and he's just doing what guys do when they want sex, make you feel any less feminine? Or is this something you just don't like to think about when you are dressed? I hope you don't mind my asking, but it does fit in with the thread topic.

It just seems to me there are two different agendas going on between CDs and admirers and I was wondering if knowing the reality of it all makes any difference to your feminine feelings that become enhanced when you think they are seeing you as women. Or, like I said, does it make any difference?

I admire the brave souls who will tackle my question. :hugs:

Excellent and fascinating question, Reine! I've only had a guy act like he was obviously interested once and it wasn't a good feeling. I was dressed in what I had hoped gave a professional, respectable, business look. I had on a navy blue knee length skirt suit, cream silk shell top, light tan pantyhose, and black 3 inch basic pumps. For jewelry, I had a wedding band and fake diamond ring, ladies watch, bracelet, thin gold chain necklace, and moderate (1 inch) dangly gold earrings. I had my hair pulled back in a loose ponytail. I had lots of foundation and concealer on, but my lipstick, blush, and eye colors were toned down. I was window shopping at a Dress Barn. About 15 people walked by without anyone giving me a secong glance, except one. Why is there always one? Anyway, he obviously realized what he was seeing, and looked me up and down. His smile was that creepy kind. He nodded and said in a loud voice "OKAY....." as though he was assuming I was a CD hooker and looking for business. I pretended he wasn't takling to me, ignored him, and walked toward the grocery store about a block away. It was about 4:30 PM and lots of people were out and about. I don't consider it a horrible experience, but it made me very uncomfortable. I'm straight, and don't like attracting the attention of guys, and I can't think of any circumstances where I'd flirt with any. Some women gave me passing glances and would smile just a little, as if in acceptance, approval, or even a little admiration. None laughed or acted as though they saw me as funny. The women's reactions have always been the ones that made me feel comfortable and more feminine. I don't think I "pass" under the scrutiny of guys, and it does make me very uncomfortable when I attract their attention. I've been believing that's part of the way GG's feel when they get unwanted attention from guys - nervous, uncomfortable, and hoping they're not followed when they leave the area. When I go out dressed, I like to appear respectable, and wear things professional women would wear. They are the ones I try to emulate. Sometimes I'm treated with respect, and that, combined with the dressing and appearing feminine and attractive, is what I think I'm after.

Thanks for a great question,

Linda

Babeba

03-20-2011, 12:47 PM

About 15 people walked by without anyone giving me a secong glance, except one. Why is there always one? Anyway, he obviously realized what he was seeing, and looked me up and down. His smile was that creepy kind. He nodded and said in a loud voice "OKAY....." as though he was assuming I was a CD hooker and looking for business. I pretended he wasn't takling to me, ignored him, and walked toward the grocery store about a block away. It was about 4:30 PM and lots of people were out and about. I don't consider it a horrible experience, but it made me very uncomfortable.

I don't think I "pass" under the scrutiny of guys, and it does make me very uncomfortable when I attract their attention. I've been believing that's part of the way GG's feel when they get unwanted attention from guys - nervous, uncomfortable, and hoping they're not followed when they leave the area.

Linda,

For me this is pretty much bang-on. I've had a few times in my life where I've felt EXTREMELY uncomfortable with what was going on around me, due to (mostly) men who I felt were being predacious. It's not very nice at all. I'm so glad that when it happened to you, you were in an area with a lot of people and places to go!