Thought provoking question

[Vanessac48]

There has been a lot written on why men want to crossdress, or even become a woman full-time. There are a lot of studies,theories, and speculation, but the reality is noone has the total answer. What seems to be the answer for one, does not hold true for another. We all have our own thoughts that apply to ourselves.

Here is a thought provocaing question.


Do we as men, want to dress like a woman because we have a fetish ridden desire for something that we admire, and is appealing to us, but is taboo for the most part even in today's world which has opened more minds than any generation prior?

Think about this carefully before you plug in your own denials. If we were really and truly driven to be a woman, born to be a woman, then why would putting on a pair of woman's pantyhose, or a woman's bra, or under garment feel so good? Why would putting on a dress, wearing a sexy bra, and donning our faces with makeup make us feel so much like the woman we desire to be?

I think if it relly was about that, and makeup, and clothing can be so fullfilling (as it is to me), then why doesn't a naturally born woman have the same desires? She doesn't feel out of place wearing a pair of jeans, or ordinary "neutral" clothes, that can be percieved as men's? She spends most of her life trying to get the bar off, and the pantyhose off, while we spend most of ours trying to get the bras and pantyhose on. A real woman doesn't feel driven to the need for women's clothes and makeup, but we have a glaring desire, that becomes a need once it has been tried. We all remember our first time in a dress,makeup, and heels, and how wonderful it felt, and how wonderful it will always feel.

The difference I think, measuring my own desires, I wear woman's clothes 24 hours a day, even to bed, and have makeup on every single day, and walk in heels every single day. I love the feeling it gives me, but for my wife, she can't wait to get all the same stuff that drives me to this peaceful feeling off!

So I guess the question is, where does this feeling come from? Are we mistaken the effects of something taboo for what some believe being born in the wrong body? or do we experiment with something taboo, that feels so good, that it leads us to believe we were born in the wrong body?

Is it some form of addiction, with a similar effect of a drug? The drug is counter-culture, but those experimenting with them (addictive drug or non-addictive drug), begin to love how they feel taking it, are we as men taking the crossdressing drug finding a similar addiction, that is mental and not physically addicting?

I find myself after dressing like this everyday, going out as a female more than a male, knowing if I had to stop now, I never could! Just like the alcoholic, or the drug user, or any other addiction, it takes rehab to break the addiction, and countless staying on course reminders to never slip back. I know of no crossdresser that has ever gone to rehab and continued counceling, because we don't want to, because we are doing no harm to ourslves, or anyone else, just going about life feeling great, so there is no reason to go to therapy (unless there are relatinship issues, or family issues).

See, why doesn't a woman have the same need to wear makeup, heels, dresses, and fancy under garments to "feel right"?

I don't have the answer, and nor do I think anyone does. My own thoughts are those of us that go all the way, and actually have surgery to become a woman were just more prone to falling prey to the incredibly good feeling of feeling and being like a woman to do so, while others exercise more control, just as you see with anything else. Some find something that makes them feel good and can contain it, others have to take it the distance.

personally, I don't think anyone of us is "trapped" in a males body, but are trapped in the great feeling of wearing something taboo, women's clothes, silicone breasts, v-string vaginas, they all feel great. We chase the feeling, and naturl women don't ever experience that "high" and fortunately that "high" never goes away, and it is harmless, and we persue it to whatever extent it leads us to believe we can, are able to, and should.

This is my opinion, and it isn't right or wrong because noone knows

[RenneB]

Wow now there's some deep thought provoking words. I wear what I wear because it feels comfortable. Giving it some more thought, one might look into the notion of we always want what we cannot get. Or in other words, its the journey and not the destination that I enjoy. Much like I pick a car, not because it can get me to point b, I bought the car, because it looks cool. Not all males and for that matter females will buy a car because it looks cool or pretty. Some buy the car just for its functionality. Once they get to point b they're happy to get out of it. Then again, some hang onto their POS and just drive. Like I say, it takes all kinds to fill the freeways.

So I feel that this analogy works for CDing also. Some of us humans enjoy the journey of going from point a to point b looking good. Others feel they have to look good for the journey and once there, just get out of whatever made them look good. While the final generalization group is for those that don't care what they look like and just go on the journey and when they get there it's done. I grew up with a family that didn't care about what a car looked like and drove many a pinto with am radio and a three speed. I've rebelled. I'm an all for appearances.

I think that makes some sense in my mind at least. For those of us who enjoy the journey and the look, it's THN (T*ts, heels and nails - that's what I used to call the GGs who prettyed up) then there are others who pretty up just for show and want to get out of this getup as fast as possible. While the final group, puts on a pair of dirty ol' jeans, beat up ol' sneakers and heads out the door. Eeegad. But hey, whatever floats your boat sister..

Any other thoughts?

Renne.....

[Vanessac48]

There is no ight or wrtong, and we all have our thoughts, and noone can take those away from us, just wanted to make all that reads this think deep. I saw a question on another site asked by a psychologist as to why men wear women's clothes, or breast form, vaginas etc. There were as many different answers as there were people doing so. I think in the end those that go the furthest, are those that are left feeling so good from dressing, they are left to feel being a man was a birth mistake, and if that is their belief, or feeling, it should only matter to them, noone else, whatever you need to be happy should never be denied you if your acting within the law.

[StaceyJane]

for me putting on women's clothes is a way to express the female part of me.

[kimdl93]

as you started out stating - there are many proposed explanations, and no one should presume that any one fits all. I think the addiction analogy is valid to a point. It works if we are compelled and obsessed, particularly if dressing takes a destructive turn in limiting our ability to function in society. But I suspect that the desire to dress or live female as a manifestation or expression of the underlying cause. That cause may be genetic or a product of intrauterine homones, or to some degree learned behavior.

[docrobbysherry]

As u say, Vanessa, maybe it's a bit DIFFERENT for everyone? For me, dressings not about my "inner woman".
I find becoming what appears to me to be an attractive young woman, exciting! And, YES! It often turns me on sexually!

However, I get NOTHING from it being "taboo"! I would MUCH prefer it wasn't! Then, I mite venture out more!

[Thea Pauline]

I agree with a portion of what Sherry said, in that, I would much prefer if there were no taboo attached to dressing. I am absolutely happy as a male, but cannot deny my dual-gendered nature and dress as an expression of my inner feelings. As far as where those feelings come from, I'm not sure. All I know is, as I look back on my life, they've always been there and influenced my behavior in all things. If I could, I'd probably adopt a 50/50 split as far as drab or dressed, because the balance is what's important to me.

Renae

[Jenniferpl]

I wear what I wear because it makes that #%^$%$%$ voice in my head go away. It allows me to relax and have clear thoughts. If it is taboo, then it is tabo.

[Sandy Banks]

I go along with your fetish driven desire and I do feel that it becomes more and more an addiction for me.

[Rianna Humble]

This started out as a good, thought-provoking article


There is no right or wrong, and we all have our thoughts, and no-one can take those away from us, just wanted to make all that reads this think deep.

I htink I understand what you are trying to say about each person having their own thoughts, but I cannot agree with you that there is no right or wrong given how far you are from the truth in the next quote:


personally, I don't think anyone of us is "trapped" in a males body, but are trapped in the great feeling of wearing something taboo, women's clothes, silicone breasts, v-string vaginas, they all feel great.

If I did not feel trapped in the wrong body at the age of 7 or 8 why did I cry myself to sleeep almost every night wishing that I could wake up as a girl? I was not dressing at that time in my life so it cannot be as you speculate that I was trapped in the feeling of wearing something that I was not wearing.

I don't wear female clothes because of a fetish, I wear them because that is what women do and because pretending to be a man drove me to the edge of suicide. I wear clothing that corresponds to my gender because wearing the other stuff used to make me physically sick.

I did not give up the idea of having a relationship with a girl who I was madly in love with in my 20's because of some desire to wear taboo garments but because as a woman, I could not be her husband - even though my body was the wrong shape for a woman - and I loved her too much to let her suffer marriage to someone who could never be her husband.


I think if it really was about that, and makeup, and clothing can be so fullfilling (as it is to me), then why doesn't a naturally born woman have the same desires?

All women like to feel good and dress up to the nines some of the time, most women like to make themselves look good for work, and some of the time we just want to put on something casual and go out to see a friend or whatever.

If you think that make-up and clothing doesn't fulfil something in a woman, ask one of your female work colleagues why she just had to buy herself that new dress, or new nail varnish or whatever it might be, and ask yourself why we women love shopping for clothes and make-up so much if we don't find it fulfilling.

[JennyA]

I am transitioning and doing everything beauty wise because like the poster above it makes me calm, feel like me, and clears my mind. If I was to stop and return to male life I would be depressed, the world would seem blah, and I would probably take to using drugs to make myself happy.

Why do transitioning people feel the need to do more makeup, frilly things, and vain feminine things? Well, for me, I feel like a GG has a leg up on me, a huge advantage over my quest to be female. I need to take and use every possible outlet, device, trick, to get close to being where she is naturally.

When my legs are silky smooth and epilated, when I have my makeup on perfect, when I've successfully created clevage and breasts with my nubra, I feel feminine. When I feel feminine I feel female and when I feel female I feel like me.

[suzy1]

An interesting and well thought out thread.
Like many here I have given a lot of thought to this question.
But it has always ended with the same answer, I just don’t know?
But Its not important to me personally.


SUZY

[Kate Simmons]

There is no one answer. Some dress because it makes them feel right, some to get stress relief, others because it stimulates them sexually. My psychologist used to tell me it was my "drug of choice" to feel better. What I feel it is mostly is our PERCEIVED idea and ideal of what it's like to be a female. Of course being a woman is largely about caring about others and being empathetic, something we miss when concentrating on the "glitter" part. Sure women like to look nice but it's because they want to look their best for those they care about and be appreciated. If we really want to feel like women and emulate them, we need to develop our family values, that is the real deal. Everything else is just secondary.:)

[dawnmarrie1961]

This is my own view of the subject:
Never mind the social taboo, the clothes,makeup,breast forms or V-string Vagina.
This is a behavior. An addictive one.
The definition of an addictive behavior is a something that we do that assumes an out of control quality. Eating, working and spending have the potential for abuse but when done in moderation allow us to lead healthy and productive lives. If any we were to develop an over reliance on any behavior in a manner that is not intended it can become self-defeating and destructive. It becomes an addictive relationship.
Addictive relationships express our inner most feelings of hopelessness and helplessness to be in control of the changes that occur in our lives. Triggers for a behavior to run amok can be a history of emotional deprivation or abuse that we feel, either consciously or unconsciously , are our just penance for our failures as a person.
We fear being revealed (OUTED) as the flawed and vulnerable person that we are so we keep our behavior secret (IN THE CLOSET) and even hidden in plain sight (PASSING). We avoid the truth, which is inescapable. We avoid taking true responsibility for our behavior by not seeking out the help that we so desperately need to get well again. We falsely believe that we are in control.
We look for validation of our behavior using flawed logic. Like an alcoholic who notices the abundance of taverns and bars around him figures It must be ok to drink in excess otherwise why would all these places exist.
Once the behavior is validated as “Normal’ in our minds we begin to seek out acceptance from ourselves and all those around us, regardless of their own personal reservations.
If the behavior is accepted it quickly takes on a dominant role and continues to evolve so long as it is fed the acceptance that it desires until it consumes every aspect of the individuals life and relationships.
Then there is only you and your behavior. You are alone. Trying to sort out the mess that your life has become.
I know it sounds pretty grim. But that's the reality of it.

Like I said, its only my view. My reality.

[Frédérique]

Do we as men, want to dress like a woman because we have a fetish ridden desire for something that we admire, and is appealing to us, but is taboo for the most part even in today's world which has opened more minds than any generation prior?

There may be a fetish aspect, and there may not – in my case, that situation is correct, and I tend to worship what I wear, believe in unsubstantiated magical powers, and ride the wave of euphoria that flows over me. I also delay pleasure, based on this “taboo” reaction in today’s world, and hide myself away for fear of censure or disclosure. At the end of the day, however, there is only one reason behind my crossdressing – it feels GOOD…
:battingeyelashes:


So I guess the question is, where does this feeling come from? Are we mistaken [ing] the effects of something taboo for what some believe being born in the wrong body? or do we experiment with something taboo, that feels so good, that it leads us to believe we were born in the wrong body?

Who knows where it comes from? I remain male, even though I may dress as a female, so I never gave a thought to “being in the wrong body.” It’s obvious you’re in the wrong body when you try to wear some of these feminine garments, but that is purely a physical thing, unconnected to emotions or feelings. You can experiment for the sake of experimentation, and express something along the way. In this way you may get more in touch with yourself, incorporating the genders for a better life experience…

[msniki48]

This started out as a good, thought-provoking article



I htink I understand what you are trying to say about each person having their own thoughts, but I cannot agree with you that there is no right or wrong given how far you are from the truth in the next quote:



If I did not feel trapped in the wrong body at the age of 7 or 8 why did I cry myself to sleeep almost every night wishing that I could wake up as a girl? I was not dressing at that time in my life so it cannot be as you speculate that I was trapped in the feeling of wearing something that I was not wearing.

I don't wear female clothes because of a fetish, I wear them because that is what women do and because pretending to be a man drove me to the edge of suicide. I wear clothing that corresponds to my gender because wearing the other stuff used to make me physically sick.

I did not give up the idea of having a relationship with a girl who I was madly in love with in my 20's because of some desire to wear taboo garments but because as a woman, I could not be her husband - even though my body was the wrong shape for a woman - and I loved her too much to let her suffer marriage to someone who could never be her husband.



All women like to feel good and dress up to the nines some of the time, most women like to make themselves look good for work, and some of the time we just want to put on something casual and go out to see a friend or whatever.

If you think that make-up and clothing doesn't fulfil something in a woman, ask one of your female work colleagues why she just had to buy herself that new dress, or new nail varnish or whatever it might be, and ask yourself why we women love shopping for clothes and make-up so much if we don't find it fulfilling.


Rianna There are plenty girls here who enjoy the fetish of crossdressing, but for me, It is so much like you. When i am going about my business and feel feminine...[ even in boy clothes] as i pass a mirror it destroys me to see the wrong person looking back at me.

yes i need more makeup than most GG's to loose that guy, but for evey girl that just wears jeans and a T shirt there is another that just loves to dress to the 9's I just got back from the Keystone conference and was niki for 5 days....skirts dresses and yes even jeans on the way home. it was not about the feeling of the clothes, especially after the 1st hour or so... it was about being comfortable presenting as me [ niki]

hugs

[Joanne f]

I don`t wish to throw a spanner in the works (OK maybe i do):heehee: but there is a multi millions of £/$ industry of fashion and makeup all aimed at females who just love all the clothes and makeup , half the shops on the high street are women's clothes shops half of the floor space in a chemist is taken up by cosmetics so i do not quite see how you can say they do not think about them in the same way , maybe having some sort of feminine connection makes one automatically want or enjoy the same things as it seams to be an automatic compulsion for a lot of females.

[dawnmarrie1961]

I don`t wish to throw a spanner in the works (OK maybe i do):heehee: but there is a multi millions of £/$ industry of fashion and makeup all aimed at females who just love all the clothes and makeup , half the shops on the high street are women's clothes shops half of the floor space in a chemist is taken up by cosmetics so i do not quite see how you can say they do not think about them in the same way , maybe having some sort of feminine connection makes one automatically want or enjoy the same things as it seams to be an automatic compulsion for a lot of females.

I recently suggested to my daughter, the model, who works in fashion design that a person could very rich if they targeted their line of apparel towards the untapped market of crossdressers. She's going to see what she can come up with. She's very good. I've seen some of her work. She often critiques the photos that I send to her of me. Commenting on how some fashions I wear tend to make my torso look less long.
I'm not trying to go off subject here.

[Alice Torn]

For me, as a never married, celibate older man, I was so starved for female touch, and I saw so many pretty girls and women , that i could never date, that I went and put on female clothes, to look like one of them, and feel like one.

[JohnH]

I recently suggested to my daughter, the model, who works in fashion design that a person could very rich if they targeted their line of apparel towards the untapped market of crossdressers.

Let's take it one step further. How about that the "female" fashion industry pitch their clothes, shoes, makeup, etc to men in general? It would take some really careful marketing to break down the "masculine anxiety" inhibitions so pandemic to this society. Just think - sales of cosmetics, shoes, and clothes would almost double! And men would not longer have to wear their same old boooring coat and tie "monkey suits" for formal attire!

There are glipses of hope - for example, Andrej Pejic's wearing femme attire at Jean Paul Gaultier's men's fashion show.

Johanna

[Lorileah]

There was an assumption made in this thread (if we think science then it is a thesis) that women do not get any pleasure or joy from putting on hosiery or make up or heels or wearing a skirt. I think that it is a false premise at best. I know several women who don't feel "right" without one or more of the above. Is it sexual? Ian a base sense maybe because they feel more sensual and may be happier when they do this. Does that make it a fetish or sexual thing though? No it is a physical pleasure. As stated there are many reasons why "we" do what we do. Equating the dressing of a MtF to a woman who wears "drab" type clothing is apples and oranges. It almost comes off in the OP that we are either/or and that is not the case. It is not the case with women either. Everyone likes to be attractive. The feelings that you get from being attractive release the same hormones that jumping from an airplane does. I really don't think that assigning these feelings to men who wear women's clothing is correct. Now IF you need the clothes to function sexually that is a whole different story.

[Alice Torn]

DawnMarrie, and Denise. You have both hit some tough nails on the head! Spot on right.

[Alice Torn]

For some reason, I have seldom been allowed to be close to gg's that dressed really nice. The vast majority of gg's i got to know, NEVER WORE DRESSES, never dressed to the nines, but, always wore jeans, running shoes, t-shirts, or sweatshirts. I saw from a distance all the girls who dressed gorgeously, but, almost never got to be friends, or close to one of those. Another reason i dress up?

[Fab Karen]

Some women do. This "a real woman doesn't" nonsense is more of the assumption that all women are identical. The clothing industry would not be producing so many dresses, the make-up industry wouldn't be booming, and high heels wouldn't be sold in such high numbers if most women hated them.

[Rachel Morley]

The subject of just why anyone dresses could be at best called a contentious issue. For sure we could talk about it until until we're blue in the face and still not have a consensus, but why do you consider it a fetish? I don't think of it that way at all ... ok maybe for some, but IMHO not the majority.

This is a partial re-post from someone else but I know plenty women that love clothes as much as the typical participant in this forum. They shop, they follow trends, and they wouldn't be caught dead in non-matching lingerie. Some never go out without hose, others love lip gloss. Some even have shoe collections that would make Imelda Marcos jealous.

IMHO the problem is, and the difference is, that genetic women who are like this are just considered as "being girly", whereas if a guy has the same interests in feminine clothing it's considered a fetish ... that doesn't make sense in my view.

[Cheryl T]

Well....I agree that at first (at a young age) that all this had it's fetishistic side. I was aroused by the clothing and the "forbidden" aspect of it all. Over the years that has faded away. I no longer have that intense desire to wear high fashion styles including sky high heels. I don't feel that makeup and all the other additions I make to my body to produce a more feminine appearance are tied to anything but my need to present to the world as a woman.
I don't dress for anyone but myself. I wear what I want to wear that day, that moment, that event. If I feel it's a skirt or dress occasion then that's what I wear. If I'm going to the mall I wear jeans or slacks or shorts or whatever because I'm just me. The fetish no longer has any hold on me. I am who I am and I dress how I feel.
There is also no more "arousal" at the thought of dressing or in the act. I am no more sexually stimulated by putting on my clothing than any other woman. Sometimes I do feel "sexy" and want to wear what will express that, but mostly that's the last thing I think about as I don my attire. I'm more concerned with the weather and will it ruin my hair than will I get stares if I wear this skirt.
I fear I have passed the plane of the average CD and progressed beyond. It's not about the clothes, it's about ME !!!!

[Christy_M]

Chemical dependency such as alcohol or drugs mixes blood with something foreign. Being addicted to the mix of those chemicals is truly a problem for many people. Considering that "adreneline" junkies are true addicts is a stretch. I think it is a little demeaning to think all I need to do is go through a 12 step program and be rid of my feminine self. There may be people who enjoy the thrill of dressing like the adreneline junkie but you shouldn't discount the feelings of so many others who "have" to express themselves for inner peace or personal sanity. If there was a way to definitively shift my thinking to something more "mainstream" I would probably leap at it so as not to fight myself every day about who I am and What I do with my wardrobe.

[Debra Russell]

"See, why doesn't a woman have the same need to wear makeup, heels, dresses, and fancy under garments to "feel right"?"

Because they ARE women. It's like wanting a corvette and owning one -- wanting = anticipation : owning = yeah so what? GG's don't want, they already have!!!!

[Sarah Doepner]

Mallory attempted to climb Mt. Everest and when asked why he said "Because it's there." Somehow everyone was happy with him putting his and other lives in danger and spending lots of money with that kind of explanation.

Why do I try to emulate the look of a woman? "Because I want to." Somehow that is unacceptable. So while the seekers are debating, I'll be changing.

[rachaelsloane]

I was about to write about a similar question and then saw yours. I do not know why not am I about to lose sleep over it. We all have different reasons for doing what we do, but what I do know is that we receive some form of satisfaction or desire to be accepted as a woman, which is all that matters in the end.
The best,
Rachael

[Crissy Kay]

IMO its our gender"s search for perfection!!!

[ReineD]

Vanessa, your points may well fit some of the CDers here. But I disagree there is no such thing as a woman trapped in a man's body. There are people who are transsexual.

Back to the people who define themselves as CDers .. I've also often wondered how much an obsession for the girlier aspects of the CDing (the *thrill*, sexual or otherwise, of wearing frilly panties, bras, heels, pencil skirts, soft sweaters, or what have you - even if someone doesn't identify as a fetish dresser) is, as you say, rooted in a desire for something that is appealing to men and that they desire. It is commonly believed that men in general have a much higher sex drive than women do:

http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare

Your theory makes sense as to why the CDing might begin (obviously this does not apply to the TSs). And, as brain chemicals are released (the dopamine) that produces such a high when connections are made between the sexual gratification and the wearing of feminine things, it also makes sense for the brain to become permanently rewired, so that it associates the CDing with pleasurable feelings in general or a sense of well-being that continues to last a lifetime, well after the sexual component has faded ...

... in much the same way that an intense, sexually charged, higher than a kite, first flush of romance leads to falling in love, and then over many years settles into the more comfortable emotional bonding between married people.

I'm no expert and what I say is pure conjecture, of course.



I think it is a little demeaning to think all I need to do is go through a 12 step program and be rid of my feminine self.

That's true. :) Gender Dysphoria in itself is not a compulsion and it certainly isn't something that should be addressed in any 12 Step program.

BUT ... a 12 Step program might help with the shopping compulsions:
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/when-too-much-shopping-becomes-a-problem_.

Or compulsions for porn:
http://men.webmd.com/guide/is-pornography-addictive





If you think that make-up and clothing doesn't fulfil something in a woman, ask one of your female work colleagues why she just had to buy herself that new dress, or new nail varnish or whatever it might be, and ask yourself why we women love shopping for clothes and make-up so much if we don't find it fulfilling.

In my opinion, the women who buy into this (myself included to a small degree) are victims of consumerism more than anything else. We have impossibly high feminine beauty standards in our culture, thrust upon us from every direction. Personally, I wear the pretty things and I'm interested in looking my best because of the pressure I feel that if I don't do this, I won't measure up to societal expectations of what I should be or how I should look. And, having been raised in a society that provides positive feedback for pretty women, I also have been conditioned to associate looking good with feeling good about myself ... in public. :) But to tell you the truth, when I'm alone at home with no expectation that anyone will see me, it would never even occur to me to put on makeup or a cute outfit. I just get dressed in comfy clothes when I'm alone.

[EllieOPKS]

I have thought about this subject a lot. I Think there is a segment of the cd community that is like me. I like to cd because I want to try and emulate something that I find to be very sexy and very appealing to me. I love to look at a woman in a beautiful dress, sexy hose, just the right make up and stylish hair. I know I could never be as appealing but in my minds eye, I have some of the attributes when I dress like them

[shayleetv]

I have no idea why, it's just is there. Sometimes I think it's a conditioned response to all that crossdressing I did with my sister and my mother during my Cub Scout years. You know like Pavlov's dog kind of a thing. Ring the bell and my mouth waters just for the chance to dress. All I know is that my personality has a lot more feminine qualities the average male. I found that out when taking a psychology class at the University. Everyone who took the class had to take a personality test. No names were on the test, they just gave you a number to look up the results if you wanted the results. I had a note on mine that said the professor would like to talk to me about my results and gave a phone number to call him at. As a result I decided to delve more into my personality. A lot of things were revealed to me about this side of me and my need to represent myself in a feminine manner. He told me some other things as well and what would have cost me a about $500 back in 1964 didn't cost me anything. But I did have to release the contents of his study for research.( My name was kept from the study.)

[Julogden]

Hi Vanessa,

Some of what you said makes sense, but this part I particularly disagree with:

"I don't think anyone of us is "trapped" in a males body, but are trapped in the great feeling of wearing something taboo, women's clothes, silicone breasts, v-string vaginas, they all feel great. We chase the feeling, and naturl women don't ever experience that "high" and fortunately that "high" never goes away, and it is harmless, and we persue it to whatever extent it leads us to believe we can, are able to, and should."

Gender dysphoria, i.e the feeling of being trapped in the wrong body is a very real thing. Just because you haven't experienced doesn't mean that it isn't real. You're making the mistake of thinking that everyone is thinking like you, and we simply are not, our reasons for dressing vary all over the place.

When I was a very young child, I prayed to God every night to turn me into a girl while I slept, and that had nothing to do with your reasons that you cited. I dress as a woman in order to bring my appearance more in line with how I feel inside. The clothes give me comfort, they make me feel "right".

And there are indeed some females who love their girly clothes, makeup etc. and would never dream of going out without their girly stuff.

And Reine, you said "I've also often wondered how much an obsession for the girlier aspects of the CDing (the *thrill*, sexual or otherwise, of wearing frilly panties, bras, heels, pencil skirts, soft sweaters, or what have you - even if someone doesn't identify as a fetish dresser) is, as you say, rooted in a desire for something that is appealing to men and that they desire."

I'm sure that's true in some cases, but I don't think it's true for all. I think that largely, many of us are so enthusiastic about the girlier aspects because those girly things are as far from masculine things as we can get. To a degree, some of us dress to deny our masculinity, so wearing the ultra-girly stuff is possibly a way to deny that we're men, IMO. It's what feels right to us.

But this is all kind of a waste of time, really. Does it really matter why we dress the way we do? It all boils down to doing what makes us happy, and why do we need to understand or justify it as long as we aren't hurting anyone? I would say it matters if we feel that our dressing has become an addiction and is out of control, that probably needs some attention, but other than that, I don't think we should waste any more time speculating about "why".

Carol

[ReineD]

I'm sure that's true in some cases, but I don't think it's true for all.

I agree with you. One thing I've learned on this site .... one size does not fit all. :hugs:

About the trend to ask *why* here, I think it's natural for people to go through that phase. Eventually the individual will have obtained answers for him or herself and will stop asking why. :)

[2SpeedTranny]

There are glipses of hope - for example, Andrej Pejic's wearing femme attire at Jean Paul Gaultier's men's fashion show.


Sorry to say, but I don't think Andre Pejic on the runway in a dress has the slightest damn thing to do with fashion freedom, trans-whatever acceptance, crossdressing, or anything but the typical modus vivendi of the "fashion elite" who foist all manner of self-aggrandizing claptrap on the public whilst secretly thumbing their noses at the nouveaux-riche idiots who lap up their bile.

In other words, Gaultier found a pretty boy -- a really pretty one at that -- to parade before the public, and say, "look at my beautiful woman here... don't you love her?... wouldn't you **** her?... it's a MAN!!!! Suckers!!!"

Mark my words. Poor Andre from Serbia will have been chewed up and spit out by the fashion world within 5 years at the most. Hope he saves his money and invests in real estate or something.

This is exactly the same kind of thing that similarly arrogant ****s like "architect" Daniel Libeskind vomit all over the populace, only shorter lived. They like to rub the public's nose in their (armpits), call it art, and see how many of them believe it.

However, lucky for us, we don't have to depend on these freaks to change the world. Ghandi said it: "be the change you wish to see in the world." BE. Just go do your thing, and have no fear. Sure, people will laugh at you, but generally, they grow tired of laughing at the same thing and look for new entertainment. I think a worthy -- and easily achievable goal -- is for John Doe to see a tranny and say... "Meh."

Let's see... I was going to tie this back to the OP somehow...

Oh yes. I've been asked many times by many people why I dress like a girl (and a few other questions as well, unrelated, but the answer and end result are the same). My answer is simple: I like to. I find it an enjoyable activity. And I'm always greeted with the "Ah" and a nod. Okay. Question answered. And really, that's enough for most anyone. Why do you like football? Why do you build model cars? I dunno, I just do. That's good enough.

So there it is. I do this because I like it, and it needn't go deeper than that. We may have been given the gifts of psychoanalysis and self-analysis by Freud and Jung, but like all gifts, they are half curse... and as such, are far over-used.

[Julogden]

2SpeedTranny,

I tend to be a bit less cynical about Gautier's thinking behind choosing Andre Pejic as his model of the moment. I think he was chosen mainly because he's new, beautiful enough to pull it off and would get people talking about Gaultier.

Androgynous fashion madels have been around for a long time, but they've primarily been female. There was a brief flurry of DQ's as runway models several years back, but for the most part, they weren't naturally femininely beautiful like Andre is.

IMO, Andre is sort of the male Twiggy, if you're old enough to know who she is. She shook things up back in the '60's because of her supposed androgynous look, and she was pretty much the start of primarily using boyishly beautiful female fashion models on the runways, if memory serves. Twiggy's modeling career lasted about 4 years, Andre will probably be lucky to last that long, as he's at an age where he's probably going to become more masculine looking every year, if he doesn't fiddle with his hormones. Hopefully, he has a good financial counselor. I'm sure he's making enough money to keep him living well for the rest of his life, if he's smart.

I do agree, we shouldn't have to justify what we do to others beyond saying it's because we like to do this, it's what makes us happy.

Carol

[Misti]

...I do agree, we shouldn't have to justify what we do to others beyond saying it's because we like to do this, it's what makes us happy. Carol

That makes 2 of us, Carol. I'm sitting here at my computer, shaving my legs while reading all of this "stuff," and thinking to myself, "Who cares? You know what, I'm doing what makes me happy!" :battingeyelashes: