Unrealistic expectations

[Vanessac48]

As much as we hope our significant other, or wife will be accepting, put the shoe on the other foot. What if your wife grew out her eyebrows, wore male genitals, shaved her head, wore a fake beard and mustache, got some manly tattoos, wore workboots and overalls with a pack of marlboros stuffed in her tee-shirt sleeve at the shoulder, and always looked like that home or away.

We expect ours to say, oh no problem, I understand you it's ok. Fortunately my wife did understand, but she is in the minority, and I'll bet even the majority of us who expect the world to understand us, wou;dn't understand our wife like that, and we know how it feels to be on that side, and it would still be hard. Then she wanted to take you to bed, as your dressed as a man, with her a guy, and your not gay your straight.

[kimdl93]

Sounds like every day at our house! Just kidding....well not entirely. I agree, its wholey unreasonable to "expect" any acceptance or support from a SO. No one has the right to expect anything of the sort. For those of us fortunate enought to have confronted this issue before marriage, its not a problem. My SO and I found we had compatible interests, so it works for us. But, she had the chance to pass on the deal.

[KrystalA]

My SO is fine with my CDing. She says it doesn't matter because I'm still the same person on the inside. I'm one of the luchy ones.

[Pythos]

OOOOOGAAA!!! OOOOOGGAAA!!!! Dive dive!!! Self hating post off starboard bow!!!

It is a well known fact that the above post is true. SO what?

People have differing likes and dislikes, and the same go for women. Many of the images women and men have been told are "normal" for the most part are contrivances. Sadly many of the ones for women are done so that she will be weak and need the care of a man to survive. Women are told day in and day out they are weaker than men, and can never be as strong. I think women body builders blow that out of the water.

It is all about what BS is fed into our minds from day one. Every time we beat ourselves up based on those notions, the more damage we do to ourselves.

[docrobbysherry]

As much as we hope our significant other, or wife will be accepting, put the shoe on the other foot. What if your wife grew out her eyebrows, wore male genitals, shaved her head, wore a fake beard and mustache, got some manly tattoos, wore workboots and overalls with a pack of marlboros stuffed in her tee-shirt sleeve at the shoulder, and always looked like that home or away.

We expect ours to say, oh no problem, I understand you it's ok. Fortunately my wife did understand, but she is in the minority, and I'll bet even the majority of us who expect the world to understand us, wou;dn't understand our wife like that, and we know how it feels to be on that side, and it would still be hard. Then she wanted to take you to bed, as your dressed as a man, with her a guy, and your not gay your straight.

It's a bad simile! Because it just doesn't happen!:brolleyes:

We pick our mates, and they us, on compatibility. If we don't, the marriages won't last, no matter what!:thumbsdn:

So, if a CD picks a mate that he knows dresses sloppy, with little regard for how fem she looks, then her walking around in work boots, loose jeans and T shirt, wouldn't be a surprise!
On the other hand, if she makes a point to always look her fem best when they meet, she MAY slack off after marriage but is VERY UNLIKELY to become a total macho looking woman!:doh:

In that same vein, an SO that picks a CDing partner, whether they know he does or not, LIKES his male/fem characteristics! When he starts openly dressing it CAN'T be as big a shock as Vanessa writes above, can it?:eek:
It's NOT like they pick a big macho lumberjack type and one day come home to find him putting on makeup! I DON'T think THAT happens often enuff to mention!:straightface:

[Cynthia Anne]

YOU speak loud and clear! I got the message! I could of heard it if I was sleeping! Thank you! I hope I don't wake up beside THAT woman in the morning! Hugs!

[RenneB]

Dating and getting to the wedding was all about putting our best face forward. She would always want to go to the track to watch the race cars or power boats or whatever sport I was into. She would always wear the short skirts, makeup, heels etc. just to look good. She was thin, single and beautiful. I was single and shallow. It wasn't until after the wedding when I was looking at buyin' tickets to some racing event that it dawned on me. She said, I don't want to go to those things. I did that just while we were dating.... egad. I married a pinto that looked like a ferrari. I've been hoodwinked.

Since, I value the vow, for better or for worse, I figure lets make the best of it. Two biological replacements later and out pops Renne after a 15 year hiatis.

We are two completely different people now. She has let herself go. Although I've supported her failed efforts to workout, eat right, etc. she is lost in some world of her own. We've tried counciling, church, anti-depressents etc. the whole gamit, but she has lost her 'rents and it was just too much. So I guess that's how Renne gets her ideas for coming out of the closet. She is doing everything that SO won't. Long hair, tight outfits, heels, nails, etc.

I'm probably babbling and sometimes I think it's TMI here, but I just let it go sometimes....

I'm still enjoying the marriage. Ups and downs, good and bad. The D word just isn't in my vocabulary. Although, I fear that it is in hers... So Renne stays out of sight.... for now.

Renne....

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I disagree with you, Sherry. I don't think the point of it happening or not is a valid reason to dismiss the argument. It's not important if it is or isn't going to happen, the important thing is that we need to at least be willing to understand their perspective.

I'm generally the exception here because I dress as a man, but I have spent time dressing en femme so it still applies to me, there's a difference between crossdressing and a woman simply chilling out in comfortable clothes around the house. A woman doing that is not dressing as a man. Having said that, I've recently started dating a new girl, we met online and I mention my clothing on the site, and on our third date I sort of ran my dressing stuff by her again just to make sure she was aware of what it meant, and she did say that she could kind of understand it because she likes wearing men's boxers around the house and even men's pants to work sometimes. But again, we were talking about the way *I* dress, as a guy in women's clothes, and not as a man dressing as a woman.

Additionally, I do think it can be as big a shock as Vanessa says. It may not be a full on lumberjack (and monty python suggests it can) but I know that I've had people who haven't seen me wear skirts before be very surprised when they find out I crossdress, and they've even said "I'd never expect that from looking at you."

And to throw one more wrench in the works, Transmen do exist and not all of them want to date women. I've come across more than a few personal ads in my time for a FtM seeking a male. So to say it doesn't happen is a bit dismissive, it does, it's just not as common.


It's a bad simile! Because it just doesn't happen!:brolleyes:

We pick our mates, and they us, on compatibility. If we don't, the marriages won't last, no matter what!:thumbsdn:

So, if a CD picks a mate that he knows dresses sloppy, with little regard for how fem she looks, then her walking around in work boots, loose jeans and T shirt, wouldn't be a surprise!
On the other hand, if she makes a point to always look her fem best when they meet, she MAY slack off after marriage but is VERY UNLIKELY to become a total macho looking woman!:doh:

In that same vein, an SO that picks a CDing partner, whether they know he does or not, LIKES his male/fem characteristics! When he starts openly dressing it CAN'T be as big a shock as Vanessa writes above, can it?:eek:
It's NOT like they pick a big macho lumberjack type and one day come home to find him putting on makeup! I DON'T think THAT happens often enuff to mention!:straightface:

[Lorileah]

this type of post comes up frequently and the point is taken. Yes putting the shoe on the other foot is a good way to think of it. But does it change anything?

I am a very idealistic person and maybe a little blind. It isn't the physical that should keep a relationship together. It should be the spiritual. Any couple who bases their relationship on the looks of the other will have some major disappointment down the road. No one stays the same, we change and not just the obvious aging. We grow, we develop different ideas. Keeping a relationship together should be on the premise of liking (actually loving) the person within. Yes, we are attracted to the package initially but it is the contents that makes us come back over and over again.

Of course there is added bling on the package to start with. And that is part of the game but we all know that the make up an come off and that things are not as they appear (on either side). The problem (as I see it) is how long you intend to keep the contents secret. I would expect that my SO would tell me early in the relationship that she liked wearing men's clothing, just as I would tell her the opposite.Maybe there are a few who wake up on their 40th birthday and think "Dang I think I'll start dressing as the opposite gender" but there are not many and the majority of "us" know well ahead but don't tell.

If, my spouse came to me presenting as the opposite gender one day wit hall the accouterments (?) you mention above I would have the same questions we get. First would be do you not want to be in this relationship anymore (see that is sort of like have you switched teams and now want to be with someone else....but not actually asking if they are gay) and do you have plans to get SRS? One may not mean the end of the relationship because just becoming a man would not necessarily mean we could not be together (but that is me as I don't see how gender makes any difference when you love someone) and if I truly loved the person, I would be there right through the whole surgery. I admit that if this was sprung on me as a surprise 20 years after getting married I would be shocked, who wouldn't (but I think you have to be totally ambivalent to have missed all the signs). But in my world if you love something you don't care what the physical part looks like, it is the whole person. My SO would be lucky because I have the insight to understand some of how they feel and we can work together. As it should be with the members of this forum.

So if the OP was an attempt to get people to reconcile the fact that they should remain in the closet because "how would YOU feel if...." I think it was off target. The question is how would you feel if your spouse hid this and lied for years and you invested all that time and now you feel like you are in a corner because your spouse didn't care enough to be honest with you early on and were insecure and thought only of their own feelings, then I think it is on the mark. Come out early and be truthful, give them a chance to let you know they love the contents and not just the package.

[Sophie86]

My wife has, in fact, called me out on this. I once (many years ago) asked her not to get her hair cut short again, because she was starting to look a bit too manly. So with all my dressing up the past couple of years, she's pointed out that I had no problem telling her that she needed to present more femme, so it oughta be okay for her to ask me to be more um, homme. We came up with a solution. I'm still shaving and plucking my eyebrows, and she's sporting a bob. :heehee:

[MrKunk]

honestly I want someone who can understand me, and my ladie friends (GG's) have been seriously accepting. In some cases to the point of sharing girl stuff, because they are a lot more comfortable knowing what I feel.

[Kate Simmons]

What's good for the gander is good for the goose, no? If folks are comfortable with who they are, what they look like has little effect in my opinion.:)

[Frédérique]

As much as we hope our significant other, or wife will be accepting, put the shoe on the other foot. What if your wife grew out her eyebrows, wore male genitals, shaved her head, wore a fake beard and mustache, got some manly tattoos, wore workboots and overalls with a pack of marlboros stuffed in her tee-shirt sleeve at the shoulder, and always looked like that home or away.

You seem to have a polarized take on things – I one had a girlfriend who disliked any type of feminine presentation, and she openly championed the type of female behavior you are referring to. I, on the other hand, descended (or ascended) into a more feminine space of my own making, filling a void. I do not read anything into this situation, nor can I use it as a decent example, but it at least opened my eyes to the other side of gender expectation…
:straightface:


We expect ours to say, oh no problem, I understand you it's ok. Fortunately my wife did understand, but she is in the minority, and I'll bet even the majority of us who expect the world to understand us, wou;dn't understand our wife like that, and we know how it feels to be on that side, and it would still be hard. Then she wanted to take you to bed, as your dressed as a man, with her a guy, and your not gay your straight.

As an arrow? Fortunately, I avoid these problems by being single. I came close to getting married once, so I often think what I would have done to “express” myself (via crossdressing) under those hypothetical circumstances. In my case, a strong feminine presence in my life would act to curb a desire to crossdress, but I would expect some form of release to eventually occur…
:doh:

[Being Paige]

If she dressed like that, I would hope that she would ask me out on a date :)

[Alice Torn]

I can see Vanna White now, sporting a mustache and beard, work boots, lumber jack shirt, and Levis, turning them letters, on Wheel of Misfortune!!!!! I rented a room with a female, that dressed that way, and had a dark mustache, too! I offered to buy her a nice dress, but she refused to ever wear a dress. My closet had a bunch of them!

[Cheryl T]

My very understanding spouse and I had that very conversation.
My response was..."you are asking the wrong person...obviously I am much more tolerant of diversity by virtue of who and what I am than most. I would have to say I would accept whatever would make you happy".
We have friends who are gay and lesbian and transgendered. Asking me that question is pretty rhetorical.

[amielts]

Sadly many of the ones for women are done so that she will be weak and need the care of a man to survive. Women are told day in and day out they are weaker than men, and can never be as strong.

Sad but true. And it's even sadder that many women are still buying into this nowadays.

[ReineD]

So, if a CD picks a mate that he knows dresses sloppy, with little regard for how fem she looks, then her walking around in work boots, loose jeans and T shirt, wouldn't be a surprise!
On the other hand, if she makes a point to always look her fem best when they meet, she MAY slack off after marriage but is VERY UNLIKELY to become a total macho looking woman!:doh:

Doc, a wife slacking off as she ages doesn't even come close to expressing a different gender. She's still a woman! :) And I'm guessing that Vanessa's wife had no idea that her husband was CD when they married. Am I correct on this Vanessa? Or if she knew that her husband liked to wear panties or hose then it is quite a jump to getting to understand the deeper motives for the CDing, from believing it is just a harmless little hobby.

Still, Vanessa, I'm glad that your wife is supportive. It's a testament to the health of your marriage. But your post brings up two different ideas. The first is a conceptual understanding or acceptance of the need to CD, which I think is much easier to achieve than the second, which is developing a sexual attraction to your spouse while he or she is expressing the other gender.

There's a current thread asking members if their wives are OK with it in the bedroom. Many of the responders say that even though their wives accept, they do draw the line when it comes to sexual intimacy. So in your scenario, it might not be too much of a stretch for a husband to support his wife occasionally presenting as a man, as long as she reverted to female mode in the bedroom. Except in real life there just aren't very many FtM crossdressers. They tend to go all the way. :)

[Haley Heather]

I love my SO for who she is and if this was who she was then I would still love and accept her but that is just me and she has actually done what the OP descibed, minus head shaving lol, she has short hair though. ;) It was a fun day. :) She's not 'into' it though, it was just done as a novelty, though we do plan on going out on occasion this way, not sure when we'll get to do that though.

[suchacutie]

Hmmm. First of all, we both agree that when we want to be "us" presenting in our biological genders, then that's the way it is for that day, back to being the spouses we married. Given that, and given the fact that my wife is totally on board with trying to understand who Tina is and supporting my transformation to her, if my wife thought a part of her psyche was male, and wanted to present that way, I would most assuredly support her in that. I'm not sure that Tina would, as Tina wants a girlfriend, and not a boyfriend, but it could be rather cool to have a "guy" friend to pal around with!

Going out presenting the opposite genders...hmmm, I'll have to think about that.

:)

tina

[Natalie Wood]

I'm straight, and my wife is accepting of my cd'ing. But if the shoe was on the other foot, I would be supportive too. I would be opened minded because I love her. And as long as she didn't change the wonderful person that she is I would give it a shot.

But I can understand that it may be hard for others.

[kimdl93]

, it might not be too much of a stretch for a husband to support his wife occasionally presenting as a man, as long as she reverted to female mode in the bedroom. .... :)

My SO and I are probably not "normal", but as Willie Nelson said, "nobody is". But at least in our case, mySO and I went into this relationship with our eyes and minds open to possibilities - including my SO presenting as a man. We chose not to draw lines, but rather to explore together. I'm not saying that its for everyone, but it works for us.