If you dont pass as female should you go out in public.

[Christine1954]

I do not pass as a female and will probably never do (although I am working to atain this image), I spotted a guy today who was dressed in female clothes very inappropriately for his age and could not walk at all in the high heels he was wearing. The make up was very amateurish and he was not at all feminine in his demeanure. He made me feel somewhat ashamed to be a crossdresser but then I realised that he was obviously not. What do others think on this matter?

[Nigella]

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones !!

[kimdl93]

I have to say "to each thier own". I probably will never pass...but hope to blend in sufficiently to not draw unwanted attention to myself. But that's just me. Some folks are more inclined to be out there in their own individual style. Its not me, but that's ok. I don't think one needs to agree with the way others present themselves, but we can endorse each individual's right to do as they wish, (so long as no small children or pets are involved and no one receives permanent wounds!)

[Julogden]

I say it's important for those of us who don't pass to go out in public if at all possible. We are the ones who let the general public know that we are among them. It takes guts, and I'm not there yet regarding full-time, but I admire those who have taken the step.

I used to go out a lot, but mainly to t-friendly spots. I did occasionally go out among the muggles, but I'm currently out of action. I've educated a few folks in my time, and I think I need to get back into action.

Christine, I'd say that the shame you felt was completely yours. Why do you think she (not he) should be ashamed?

Carol

[BreenaDion]

Dont feal bad im a TS and im ashamed to be one around others in here cuz they are sooooo mean.
Breena.

[Amelia]

You should do what you desire and are comfortable with. It is not your problem if others can't accept what they are seeing. They are free to look away at any time! :)

[StacyCD]

The most important part of the equation is that you are comfortable with yourself. I certainly don't pass all the time but that doesn't stop me from going out. And remember, practice, practice, practice!

[RADER]

The person you saw has more guts than myself.
I will never pass, even if all where blind. So if he dressed up and went out,
as long as she is not bothering anyone, let her have her moment in the sun.
Rader

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I think there's quite a bit of middle ground between people who don't pass and a specific person who doesn't put any effort into what he's wearing. After all, there's plenty of guys who dress inappropriately while in pants and shirts. Just because a lot of of young guys wear their jeans hanging below their hips doesn't mean I don't like to wear some firmly at the waist.

I don't pass, and I stopped trying to years ago. Doesn't mean I don't make every effort to look my best though. I know I'm dressed unusually when I go out as a guy in a skirt, so I try to look good at least.

[Kathryn Philips]

I am working of trying to look as feminine as possible within the constrainsts set by my personal family circumstances. I have very few opportunities to dress and cannot shave any part other than my face. I think that I almost passable when seen "face on". Seen in profile I don't look very female so I dont think I would ever be passable. I am also working on the way I move (specialy my facial expressions) and on my voice. When I look in the mirror I want to see and hear a woman. BUT, I have no specific desire to go out in public and to pass, altough I would love BE passble. However, I would like to be able to attent a CD/TV event one day and meet real people as Kattie.

[Lorileah]

First, very very few will ever "pass" on a daily basis. I dislike the word "Pass". No single woman fits an exact image and no CD will ever fit that without tons of surgery and make-up. If you are waiting until you can "pass" you will have to wait for a long time. You will be spotted somewhere along the line. I see this mentioned over and over again that "I will never pass." Then don't worry about it...you won't ever pass then. Most the pictures you see where someone looks close to being a GG have perspective errors.

Second, I believe that in this forum we should be a little more lenient with everyone. In today's media world what you see is not what you get usually. Those "perfect" people you see in ads and elsewhere are not perfect. Here especially I think too many put unneeded pressure on themselves and then on others to fit an image. An image perpetuated by marketing and commercial endeavors to sell more product. The female side has been working now to convince teen girls they don't have to be stick thin and look like "Barbie" which is an unnatural appearance. We are told what to look like and what to think. Who made these rules? Why is the person you saw "wrong" in appearance and why should that make you ashamed? You have to lose that "this is how it should be" attitude and start thinking "this is how it is." We are not little pink boxes on a hillside.

You are who you are. You are not a bad person in any manner because you have certain feelings about how you could dress or how you wish to be. The same is true for everyone out there. Everyone is so concerned about how they think a woman SHOULD look that they don't see that women look different from each other. There is no "walk" There is no "Hand movement" or inflection or wiggle or head tilt that is specific to the female gender. We are not clones, nor should we be.

You can work on fitting a mold you have in your mind about how you should look. You will be wasting a lot of time you could be using enjoying what you have. You will become disenchanted, you will be frustrated. You will sit in the house and wish that you had done more when you get old. Get over the "his is how I was told I should be or look." Take charge of what you are and hang on for the ride.

[Mahoro]

Just my 2 cents here, but if I hadn't finally stopped giving a d*mn about whether or not I 'passed', then I would have never mustered the courage to go out into Mainstream society.

It was always easy for me to go to the GLBT clubs and CD/TG meetings, because I knew I'd be accepted there, but that's not how I wanted to live the rest of my life, just limiting myself to those venues. I needed and wanted to present as a woman anywhere I felt like going, and with the encouragement and support of some good friends finally came to realize that I did not care anymore if I got 'read' or not.

Once I made that mental switch it changed my whole outlook, and my day to day existence. I still have a long way to go as far as feeling I can be full time, or anything approaching the impossible standard that many call 'passable', but at least I try, and at least I'm getting my butt out the door in a dress on a regular basis now. This CD you saw is apparently doing the same thing, no longer living life according to the unrealistic standards of others, but rather going out and enjoying the world while wearing the clothes that feel right inside.

Trying to hold every CD/TG/TS to a picture perfect ideal is not only unrealistic, but unfair as well. Just look around you, how many cis people do you see that look like crap on a daily basis... go ahead and look, the answer is a majority of them are sub standard compared against the artificial ideal many are trying to hold the rest of our community to.

OK, my rant is over now, but to summarize; this person you saw should be Celebrated, and consider that perhaps you might have had a different reaction if you yourself had been dressed at the time...

[Julogden]

Mahoro, you're my new heroine! You go!!:yt::yrtw:

Carol :hugs:

[Stephanie Miller]

I went out to the garage and dug up my old "Handbook For Proper Crossdressing" to see what it said about this. Low and behold, there it was in Chapter 2365 (on Tolerance), paragraph 2 :
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other’s folly – that is the first law of nature.
But in the footnotes I also saw...
“A critic is someone who never actually goes to the battle, yet who afterwards comes out shooting the wounded”

[danam]

Ha! I saw a crossdresser riding a bike recently. I laughed my head off. The reason it was funny is because it would be funny to see a GG in full makeup, pointy high heels, nylons, and a skirt riding a bicycle on a busy road. That is just NOT normal behavior for a GG in my town, so it would be funny to see a GG doing that. Seeing a crossdresser do that makes it all the more humorous!

[Rachel Morley]

"If you dont pass as female should you go out in public?" ... IMO, absolutely you should ... and not just to "further the cause" and get people to realize that we exist but because you shouldn't feel like you can't just because you don't pass.

However, that said, if I was brutally honest, I do understand your sentiment when you say you felt ashamed. Presumably because you though this person was putting up a bad example to the public of what you want the general public to think a crossdresser is supposed to be like. I do get that concept as this person (who was presumably a rookie) is probably going to look and act a whole lot better with a little experience. You should see my early pics - horrendous! ... the difference is I didn't have the courage to go out. Now this person you saw, should she have gotten to a "minimum standard" before venturing out to save you from being feeling ashamed? .... ooh, now we're into a dangerous area ... by who's and what standards should she have reached before being "allowed" out? See, once you get into this area it's fraught with danger.

[Julogden]

Dana, you didn't offer her a lift? I would have, if for no other reason to hear the story behind why she was riding a bicycle.

You could have had a new crossdressing pal too! :)


"[I][COLOR="navy"]Now this person you saw, should she have gotten to a "minimum standard" before venturing out to save you from being feeling ashamed? .... ooh, now we're into a dangerous area ... by who's and what standards should she have reached before being "allowed" out? See, once you get into this area it's fraught with danger.

Yeah, that's a very sticky subject. I can see valid points on both sides of the discussion, but I've come to realize that we have no business telling anyone what they can or can't wear as long as all the naughty bits are sufficiently covered.

Carol

[Sara Jessica]

...finally came to realize that I did not care anymore if I got 'read' or not.

Once I made that mental switch it changed my whole outlook, and my day to day existence....

A page taken from my book. If anyone hasn't gottten herself to this place, let me say it's the place to be.

I expect to be read. I really don't care so much. Life is much easier when your head isn't on a swivel trying to see everyone you leave in your wake to determine if you're good enough.

[darla_g]

I think you should do whatever you feel comfortable with. I think there are many that think dressing is pointless if you don't go anywhere or do anything, but I think its up to you.

[sissystephanie]

I am a male and therefore cannot pass as a woman, unless I am wearing a properly fixed wig and properly applied makeup along with the proper clothing!! When my wife passed away, I decided to forget about "passing," and just go out dressed enfemme with no wig and no makeup. Been doing it for 6 years now and have never had a problem!! Of course, since I am obviously a male I always use the mens restroom if I need to even though I am dressed enfemme!! My clothing choice is for me to pick, not anyone else!!

[Christy_M]

I went out to the garage and dug up my old "Handbook For Proper Crossdressing" to see what it said about this. Low and behold, there it was in Chapter 2365 (on Tolerance), paragraph 2 :
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other’s folly – that is the first law of nature.
But in the footnotes I also saw...
“A critic is someone who never actually goes to the battle, yet who afterwards comes out shooting the wounded”

I love it...I lost my copy :)

What is passing? If it isn't being ourselves then none of us will pass fully. Most of us still have the dangly bits and those that don't still has the memories. For those of us that are not GG we can never rid ourselves of our chromosomes...Don't hate on people because of the way the express themselves. It is neither polite nor is it something we want others to do to us.

[Alice Torn]

Lorileah, Thanks for your post. That mad a lot of sense. Good point. Each gg moves differently.

[AKAMichelle]

The way I think of passing is that I pass at 100 yards. Any closer and I am discovered. Do you think I let that prevent me from going out. NO! In fact tonight I was suppose to an Avs game with 8000 people but I had so many issues that I couldn't go. Now on friday I am flying dressed to Chicago. Not because I pass but because I want to enjoy me. On Saturday I am going to see Merchant of Venice at the Bank of America theatre in Chicago by myself. Now I will be wearing a very pretty dress but I won't pass. On April 8th I will finally go to the Avs game dressed.

The point is this. You can find excuses why not to go out all day long. If you don't want to go out, then don't. But if you want to go out then stop with the excuses and just do it.

As for the person's appearance, I can tell you that everyone improves with practice. We can't be expected to go out and pull off the look everytime or even once. We may get close, but life is too short to judge yourself that way. Work on your appearance one day at a time and you will see a lot of differences over time. In fact one day you might even pass by your definition 10% of the time. It is a process. Never let fear keep you in the closet.

You have a life to live. So start living!

[Yolanda_Voils]

Well, I have in the past made commentary about my ability to pass at times, in reality I probably do not pass for a gg, ever.

I don't care if I'm "made" as a CD, I do care "Where" I'm made as a CD, for saftey only though.

[Cynthia Anne]

Well, well, well! what do I say about that! Guess what! I don't pass so I would say come over to my house and we will practice our make-up and our walk together! SISTER! hugs!!!! If you don't like the way I'm liven', you just leave this long haired country girl alone!

[docrobbysherry]

I do not pass as a female and will probably never do (although I am working to atain this image), I spotted a guy today who was dressed in female clothes very inappropriately for his age and could not walk at all in the high heels he was wearing. The make up was very amateurish and he was not at all feminine in his demeanure. He made me feel somewhat ashamed to be a crossdresser but then I realised that he was obviously not. What do others think on this matter?

That was probably ME, Christine! I don't enjoy dressing to blend. I'm TERRIBLE at makeup and was trying out some new 5 1/2" spike heels! Sorry to have embarrassed u! I'll go back in my closet now, where I belong!

[Cynthia Anne]

That was probably ME, Christine! I don't enjoy dressing to blend. I'm TERRIBLE at makeup and was trying out some new 5 1/2" spike heels! Sorry to have embarrassed u! I'll go back in my closet now, where I belong!

Thats funny doc! If you can't laugh at that, then you need to get out of here!

[ReineD]

I do not pass as a female and will probably never do (although I am working to atain this image), I spotted a guy today who was dressed in female clothes very inappropriately for his age and could not walk at all in the high heels he was wearing. The make up was very amateurish and he was not at all feminine in his demeanure. He made me feel somewhat ashamed to be a crossdresser but then I realised that he was obviously not. What do others think on this matter?

It's too bad you don't know her. Then you might be in a position to help with her presentation, after checking first to see if she would like the help of course.

Lets' face it, being a CDer doesn't guarantee automatic fashion expertise. There are lots of people both male and female who just don't have an eye for detail or a sense of decorum, and in most cases they probably don't care and it likely doesn't matter anyway. But, when a CDer looks like a badly made-up drag queen, the down side is that people won't treat her as well as they might otherwise. She might notice this and her feelings could get hurt.

The same thing applies to say, a young guy who goes job hunting in the corporate world wearing torn jeans and flip-flops. Or the GG who meets her bf's parents with her boobs hanging out of her top, G string showing, and chewing gum. I bet you anything both these people would appreciate pointers, since an improvement in their appearance might get them what they want, which is the job or the parents' approval.

The CDer you saw needs your compassion, not your disapproval. :sad:

[Stephanie Miller]

As always Reine I love reading your posts as they are always very smart and insightful. I have just one thought though. It goes back to the threads about "outing" another CD by mearly making contact. Maybe that is the look that makes that person happy with herself, and by us saying something could ruin thier day.
For example try telling a young wanna-be rapper that his pants would be better served 8 sizes smaller, WITH SUSPENDERS, so the tops don't hang half way down thier crack.:eek:
I'm sure he wants to hear how the establishment would look better upon him.
:2c:
I really do understand what you were saying though. That's what makes it all so hard to decide. Damned if you do, damned if you don't

[Melissa Rose]

I have several friends who go out and are easily read. They don't care if they pass or not. They present themselves in a nice manner and tend to blend in well. You have to admire their courage and audacity.

I see plenty of people who belong to the some group or classification to which I belong. Some times one or more may appear or behave in a way I find embarrassing or distasteful. I don't run up and say, "hey, stop it, you are embarrassment to ______ and me". As has been already said, who am I to judge or be the arbitrator of good taste and decorum. I'm sure others would find problems with some aspects of my being to which I would disagree.

[ashlylynn]

As a Genetic Female (albeit who does have F2M tendencies which led me to this board )
when I see a "transvestite" who is not even close to passing (eg. a 60+ man in my area
who has been seen every summer in a dress and such a bad "Mrs. Dog The Bounty Hunter" wig)
I wonder:

Is the dude insane? Am I in danger? ..because it is obvious he has a departure from
his senses (if any) or shame (if any) or cannot control his desires/himself and acts on impulse
and has NO REGARD for (the feelings of) anyone else - does not care about anyone else.

So - again - AM I IN DANGER?

Now - I took my male friend out en femme just within the past few days ( his first outing )
and we even went into women's dressing room areas (2nd trip) and washrooms ... BUT ...
I know the dude is sane ( haha - used loosely ) and means no harm to anyone or himself
BUT ...

We both worked very hard to get him passable so that he would not ALARM anyone else ( SEE ABOVE )
and when he went out we had a rescue system - what to do if it looked like he was "made" ( once was )
so that we could but the notion of a "false" alarm in a woman's head, so she'd not be GENUINELY SCARED.

See - if I went into a washroom or parkade by myself and did not KNOW there was a dude in there - no problem.
And if I knew there was a dude in there, if I knew he was in there with a female friend of his which gave me
reason to believe he was not just PSYCHOTIC and not in touch with reality and not intending to predate on me
...really no issue. By virtue of another woman giving him "safe zone cred" - he's not a THREAT.
And since MOST of you CDs are heterosexual - you can see my point.

In the paragraph above, notice that I did NOT say the dude was dressed as a female.
THAT would just make me MORE worried - increase the probability - that he is azed and intending me harm.
This is what it is like to live as a female. I have a REPULSIVELY overweight and UGLY co-worker who is afraid
to walk to her car by herself in broad daylight because she is afraid of being raped. They guys ( and me, kinda )
just laugh at the absurdity of it. I doubt Tyson could knock her down. But women ARE PREY - and we think like it.


Those of you who think it is ok to just walk through a mall unpassing and not caring - please - consider others, mmmkay?
Consider that you may make a female so scared that she shoots you ( I'm serious! )
We don't think like you do for the most part - EVERYTHING noticed as out of the ordinary is a threat to us until proved otherwise.

But ... you can pass if you sacrifice some glamour. Just look drab. Use a winder coat as a cover.
Not everyone will look like Kim Kardashian ( welcome to the reality of being girl - 'cept no gyno-issues for you)

You can have an outing with a "buddy" by hiring an escort or posting an ad seeking someone to "coach"
you for a "theatrical role audition" in which you need to play a woman. Or post an employment ad seeking
women to take CD men on outings - $25/hour - easiest money ever for them and well spent for you.

I think every male could pass as female with the right season, clothes, make-up, glasses, wig, hat/hood
and enough feedback here. I think you would be a lot safer if you went out with a buddy until confident.

NEVER go into a place where alcohol is served while dressed. If you get hit on, and THEN made
you may get the face beat off you buy a guy who is humiliated at what happened and then must
take it out on YOU for being a "fag" ( which is what he'd call a male acting like a female. )
This is why most nightclubs don't allow xdressing - for the protection of the xdresser.

[ReineD]

Stephanie, I didn't word my post precisely enough. :p I know the OP was in no measure to go up to this person and offer help. I just wanted to offer a different perspective, rather than feeling ashamed of her.

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

If the person is comfortable with what is done and can handle the situation in a relaxed manner, why not. If they are confident then ok, its those people who are not comfortable with themselves and lack confidence that subject themselves to any problems that may arise. I think it should give one more confidence as it says basically, if he can do it why can't I!
For me, I am not confident nor am I comfortable with my appearance to even poke my head out the door dressed as a female.

[Cari]

As the thread shows if you dont "pass" you will get crap from many directions.
I have a theory is that if you didnt look like a hot mess your first nite out, you waited too long :-)

The good news for those of us that may never pass, is that there are events, meetings and nites out where there is a supportive community.
So even if you arent the delicate feminine flower you can and should still get out and have fun
Being out doesnt mean walking thru the mall unnoticed for everyone.
Dont get me wrong looks still matter at those events, but in my experience if you are giving it an honest effort you should be fine.

[prene]

I have only been out a 6-7 times.
Most times I go to out of the way places, and cd neutral places.
I pass (sort of) from behind and when I am not in bright light ... or talking.
I always do my makeup well and usuallly have a few gg with me helping.

[sarahNZ]

Doubtfull if I would ever pass... mind I've picked out others that have in a crowd so it may just be that I have a critical eye for detail, but that said I still go into town. Yes I get looks but not all of them are bad, I've even been whistled at by women and jeered at by men as I walk past so I know they made me. Just give em a smile to say you don't care and get on with what it is you were doing.

Be comfortable with your self and never mind what the world thinks.

[erickka]

You should go out if you don't pass. I don't and I still do' I don't get any strange looks or comments, so I guess a little bit of confidence goes a long way.

[Kate Simmons]

I guess much of it would depend on a person's motive for CDing to begin with.:)

[Amanda Stubbs]

I'm unable to post photos from my iPhone, or if I can I don't know how to but, anyway, if you wish you can check me out on fb.
I know I don't pass, very few of the girls I've met pass, although some have been simply stunning ! I venture out to main stream venues all the time with no problems. I go to organised meets, where we have arranged a night out and meal or even venues for the total novice. We all have to start somewhere and that's my aim, to help any person, M or F, to realise they are not alone, they can get help and what a wonderful time can be had !
Dress sense is something you gain with experience and help. I don't judge others but will offer advice if asked.

[lauraabdl]

I know I don't pass a lot of the time. I still make an effort to get out and enjoy myself and with each outing I learn something. I find more courage ans its more and more fun. I try different outfits and looks and when I get a compliment I remember what I was wearing and how I looked, It gives me a feeling of wellbeing and acceptance, pratice makes perfect, so start praticing- you are not getting any younger.

[noeleena]

Hi.

Ashlylynn,

I do, ... NOT ... (( pass )) as a normal woman im not normal any way. did not crossdress not even a transsexual transvestite no, not a natal female , no womb ,yet im accepted as a woman both legal & by all Govt depts .

I dress as a woman im 63 have no head of hair use hardly any make up just lippy & eye brow liner ,
im a member of a few women only groups , women only forums im involved with many groups a mix of both men & women .

Iv stood in front of very large groups of people & talked to them. & if you read some of my posts youll see what i have done. & my pic tells a story, iv been over seas & where ever i go im accepted first as a person . & 2nd as a woman.
For me if it was about passing then im a compleate failure i do not look like a woman ,

Yet, if you stood in front of this kid youd find a all out WOMAN whos a intersex androgynous woman , you see we come in all shapes & sizes & iv been told im nothing other than a woman , even tho im born both male , female / woman.
i cant help how i look , so does that say im a socal out cast because i dont look & pass as a woman should .
I have respect from women & men, im well known , so i have some thing going for me as youll find out as you get to know me.

Christine.

I know many if not most dressers wil surpass me any time in how they look even do far better than i in how they are accepted as a woman make up dress & all there is & most would make me look so out of the pic that id be so embarrised in thier compnay,

If you understand that youll know how i feel as a woman i know what its like i live this every day im faced with am i trying to be some one that im not thats hard to work through im still here after many years .
What im trying to say is we can go out in to the world & be accepted for who we are.

Accepting your self , you can be accepted by others iv used every thing inside of my self so just dress the best you can get some help & go & have fun & enjoy who you are , just get out there & have FUN.

...noeleena...

[linda allen]

I....... I spotted a guy today who was dressed in female clothes very inappropriately for his age and could not walk at all in the high heels he was wearing. The make up was very amateurish and he was not at all feminine in his demeanure.

I think the number one mistake a lot of CDs make is dressing like a street hooker. If you're not 20 years old, 5'6" or less and 130 lb, you're not going to pull it off no matter how much you want to. A high percentage of GGs couldn't pull this off if they tried.

If you're 45 years old and built like a man, the best you can hope for is to look like a rather large 45 year old woman. No mini skirts, no 5" heels, no "night club" makeup.

What you have to do is observe GGs your age and size, then dress and act like them. You may pass, you may not, but you'll have a much better chance.

For me, If I thought I would pass and had the opportunity, I would try it, but dressed and made up appropriately. I'm not one to put on a dress and walk down the street with a beard.

[Nicole L.]

If you're comfortable with yourself and how you look, why shouldn't you go out? If I have to wait until I "pass" in everyone else's eye's, I'll be stuck indoor's for the rest of my life.
Nicole

[Sophie_C]

I believe it's all a personal choice, but girls who make no effort must NOT FORGET that you make it very easy for trans prejudice to exist and often make transgender women not be taken seriously. Know you do reinforce stereotypes with it and your immediate pleasure can have consequences.

[Joanne f]

You are inclined to judge others when you feel like you are being or going to be judged yourself , loose the shackles of the feeling of being judged then you will stop judging others .
It is the one`s that don`t pass that will make it more acceptable in the future as they are seen for what they are .

[Tina Leigh]

Ok great thread. Stop in some average place, maybe working class, and look at women objectivly. You will see enevitably several who if you open you mind that they might not be women, could be CD doing a bad job of looking fem. lots of less that " barbie" perfect, heck some even less than "Rosanne" fem. and what do they get away with it? Because they just go and yes they may know they are not image perfect but they are out there doing what they have to or want to with what they have. I have a auto parts dealer who has a counter SA who if I had to guess was a T girl build,my goodness shoulders and tough but all made up. But I have meet her son and he calls her mom! We see in each other our selves who and what we do and don't want to be. Do I want to be the obviously out of place guy in a bra pointed at by children? No, but someday that might happen is there a chance she/he doesn't see or need outside approval, good for her. I would like to think I would have made some excuss to exhange pleasantries with this person, make someones day. In my humble opinion

[Kim_Bitzflick]

Judge not, lest ye be judged......

[Jorja]

If you don't pass as female should you go out in public?

No, you must stay home and crawl to the deepest darkest corner of your closet.

Even though one might not pass as a female is no reason not to go out and enjoy yourself. I have come across many GG's that don't pass as female. It never stops them from going out. As someone said, do be careful while out as not all are happy to see us.

[suzy]

Quick answer.....of course, yes... go out and be yourself!:D

[beth_30]

It comes down to confidence, no?

If you are blessed with confidence and titanium-plated skin then you can go out looking however you choose and we should applaud those who do. It was only recently when I felt I could go out dressed up after deciding I really *really* needed to feel the breeze on my legs :)

It would be great if I do 'pass' (but I suspect I don't), but I'm relatively new to this going out thing and I need to learn - the best way is through experience.

I can understand the OP's feeling of embarrasment, but I wonder if they feel that same when they see a badly dressed GG?

[Sarasometimes]

I go out and try to present as a reasonably attired GG would appear and hope no one makes it a problem. I agree that few can truly "Pass". I am to blend but looking back on how i presented myself several years ago, I could have been that cd. Tolerance for all should be our goal. Not just tolerance to those it is easy to be tolerant of. Still a goal of mine I haven't fully reached!

[James Kaon]

Simple for me really. Yes, if you want to go out because this is what you prefer wearing for whatever reason, then there is no reason why you should not go out in what you feel most comfortable in... The only reason why you may not want to is society's intolerance (yep that old chestnut again!). But its a numbers game - if more than the average person crossdressed then it would not be a problem and you would see most people doing so. Hmm, but then, it would no longer be considered crossdressing :)) Damn, gets complicated! Anyway, for me if I saw a MTF or a FTM who did not pass who was out and about, I would be surprised and of course I would notice, simply because I do not see many crossdressers or TG etc out in public. But would it offend me, worry me about rep, make me angry? Absolutely not. I do not expect people to tell me what I can and can't wear, I would be hypocrite if I did the same...

J

[ReineD]

I think the number one mistake a lot of CDs make is dressing like a street hooker. If you're not 20 years old, 5'6" or less and 130 lb, you're not going to pull it off no matter how much you want to. A high percentage of GGs couldn't pull this off if they tried.

If you're 45 years old and built like a man, the best you can hope for is to look like a rather large 45 year old woman. No mini skirts, no 5" heels, no "night club" makeup.

What a great post, thank you!! :)

I think it's important to remember the OP said the person she saw was dressed inappropriately. Even if her face does look masculine, she won't stand out so much if she dresses for the occasion. Night club wear belongs in night clubs, just as bathing suits belong at the beach. lol

It can take time for some CDers to learn to discriminate between what is appropriate clothing for some occasions, but not others.

[Christine1954]

Thanks for all of the replies to this post, I did not expect such a response. I have read and taken in your comments and have learned from them that I should not have been ashamed. I do however, still feel that if you do anything in this life, then it should be your best effort and show respect for others.
Christine

[shaq91]

I'm 19 and i don't do look like a woman... i'm more like what some of you would call a guy in girls clothes... but i look good doing it and i rock my heels and think that if you look good and can do it without looking like a fool then go for it! i'm not sure if i ever wanna get a wig & do full make up.... unless i know that i will look amazing i'm not even gonna go for it

[ashlylynn]

I think the number one mistake a lot of CDs make is dressing like a street hooker. If you're not 20 years old, 5'6" or less and 130 lb, you're not going to pull it off no matter how much you want to. A high percentage of GGs couldn't pull this off if they tried.

If you're 45 years old and built like a man, the best you can hope for is to look like a rather large 45 year old woman. No mini skirts, no 5" heels, no "night club" makeup.

What you have to do is observe GGs your age and size, then dress and act like them. You may pass, you may not, but you'll have a much better chance.

For me, If I thought I would pass and had the opportunity, I would try it, but dressed and made up appropriately. I'm not one to put on a dress and walk down the street with a beard.

DING DING DING - We have a winner!!!


Thanks for all of the replies to this post, I did not expect such a response. I have read and taken in your comments and have learned from them that I should not have been ashamed. I do however, still feel that if you do anything in this life, then it should be your best effort and show respect for others.
Christine

Exactly.

Glasses - tame wig - boring clothes - and if you can go out in cold weather, a jacket, hat and glove LINERS ( give illusion of a small hand in a big glove, rather than a big glove over a big hand ) ... nobody will even notice you. As you get better at being unnoticed, you can get more appealing with clothes.

[Fiona Lindum]

I don't think I pass at all even when wearing a wig, makeup etc. My last two days out I have not worn a wig or a make up but otherwise dressed and have spent time out on the beach or round the shops. I have not had any bad comment made. Yesterday while shopping for clothes I got chatting to the young SA we had a long chat about clothes and she said that you should wear what you are comfortable with. She saw nothing wrong with men in skirts but she admitted that she hardly ever wears skirts because of her pale legs. I suggested that she wear tights in a skintone, I told her I was wearing skintone tights(she thought I was bare legged) and she said she would try a similar shade next time she wore a skirt/dress.

[NicoleScott]

Well, why limit public appearance standards to just crossdressers? From now on, fat and ugly men and women (and their kids too) are forbidden to go out in public.
Just one question: who sets the standards?

[Lorileah]

OMG I went out last night! Did anyone see me? Did I pass?

[Billie Jean]

I am a male and therefore cannot pass as a woman, unless I am wearing a properly fixed wig and properly applied makeup along with the proper clothing!! When my wife passed away, I decided to forget about "passing," and just go out dressed enfemme with no wig and no makeup. Been doing it for 6 years now and have never had a problem!! Of course, since I am obviously a male I always use the mens restroom if I need to even though I am dressed enfemme!! My clothing choice is for me to pick, not anyone else!!I do the same and other than some odd looks nobody has ever said anything.Billie Jean

[MissVictoria]

I am 31 years old, dress appropriately for my age, but for the most part, never wear makeup or a wig when i go out. I dress to the nines from the neck down, but neck up, i am clearly guy. I do this for several reasons: 1) while I adore presenting a completely female appearance, i can satisfy my desire by dressing completely, without the chore of putting on makeup. 2) I am always clean shaven, head to toe. 3) and probably the highest on the list, I absolutely love the blurring of gender lines and confusion in seeing a very feminine shape and demeanor, crowned with the head of a man. It strikes up plenty of conversation and I have never once felt threatened or unsafe. I go to malls, do my grocery shopping and run errands this way. It also makes it easier to transform quickly after work, for a quick fix!

[Fab Karen]

If others are standing still & you move beyond their location, you passed.

As an example of life's variety, the star of "Throw Momma from the Train" is a woman.

[Kiera79]

I do not pass as a female and will probably never do (although I am working to atain this image), I spotted a guy today who was dressed in female clothes very inappropriately for his age and could not walk at all in the high heels he was wearing. The make up was very amateurish and he was not at all feminine in his demeanure. He made me feel somewhat ashamed to be a crossdresser but then I realised that he was obviously not. What do others think on this matter?

Here is my take. We all start somewhere and not all are stuck in the closet. For me I went out in skinny jeans and a shirt the first time. I still to this day do not wear a wig because it makes me feel fake. I am me and present as me. If that is wrong them oh well. I enjoy wearing nice fitting clothes and styles that are feminine n natural but do not wish to transition.

[msginaadoll]

I think whatever you look like you should be out in public after all we are all human. Of course there is such a thing as common sense. If ya wear a tutu and fairy wings to the mall you will get stared out. If you dress like a hooker whether you are a GG or transgender you will get stared at. Heck none of us can control what people think or even say. I just think as cd's we need to be prepared for peoples reactions good bad or indifferent. Wear whatever you want to wear, if ya want to go out it is your right! Of course people also have the right to stare!

[CarlaWestin]

Well, I just don't have the time slot or the facility to do a complete make-over. I generally will entertain myself with androgynous dressing and include giant boobs and stacked heels. I don't purposely get in anyones face but I do go about my business. Really, practically no one notices.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=154321&stc=1&d=1301018103

[PretzelGirl]

I like to encourage anyone who wishes, to go out and enjoy themselves no matter how they look. Yes, the person's appearance may not be where they want to be eventually, but if you never more forward, then you never achieve your goal.

I went out yesterday and passed. But everyone still looked at me with disgust. So I bought some GasX and I will try again.

[t-girlxsophie]

My best friend could be that guy,she is in her 60s but dresses like a teenager,mini skirt,high heel boots,crop tops,the lot.She loves being a Crossdresser and lives her life to the fullest when she is out (which happens rarely these days),I wouldnt try and change her,she wouldn't be the same bubbly,fun loving person I became Pals with.Sure we get looks when I walk down the street with her,and a lot (even some other CDers dissaprove of her) think her odd but maybe everyone should deal with themselves without trying to foist there opinions on others,we dont all fit the ideals

Sophie

[Chickhe]

Everyone has to start somewhere. Are you asking if you should go out? Or are you asking if the person you saw should have gone out? Just do your best to look decent and go with that. I guess if you have some fashionistas to hang around with you have an advantage.

[Sarah Doepner]

Go out however you want to go out, I do.

If you decide to dress like a female member of the band KISS but with a full beard and a neon codpiece, I may choose to cross over to the other side of the street and watch the show rather than be in it. And if am in the same room as you and you don't think my marginally passible soccer mom outfit is appropriate for the occasion, you can wander off and find the incredibly beautiful CD and hang with her.

In either event I can accept the choices others make and hope they can accept mine.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I see a lot of GGs that don't pass as female out in public all the time.

With the obesity of women and the dress down culture, many GGs do not make attractive women. While I don't pass very well, with a good makeup job, I could pass. I'm 5'9"", 150 lbs, size 10 to 12 bottoms, and 12 to 14 tops. I'm well within the acceptable GG size ranges. I think GGs do us CDs a big favor by not looking very well. It means that I don't stand out as much in a group.

[irmichelle]

My wife tells me that with full makeup on I have a chance. But then again, she says, Take a look around. There is some pretty damn ugly women. Hmmmm.

[2SpeedTranny]

I know beyond any doubt that I'm not going to pass for female any closer than 30 yards. Any lingering doubt a blind person may have would be quickly eliminated when I open my mouth.

That said, I do try to put myself together well, most times... so at least someone might think, "hey, there's a cute transvestite." :battingeyelashes:

[Xandria]

the SO and i were talking the other day and the subject came up and i asked her to please critique me on how xandria dresses, i asked her to please stop me from going out in public if i look re-donkulous.

the thing for me is this. I will never be "passable" i have such a deep voice and my body's frame is very wide in the shoulders and narrow hips so i know i'll get read right off the bat.. unless you look at me from behind.. HA! anyways because of my situation i like to get creative with makeup and what i wear


so i found this cute outfit.. you tell me.. would you go out in public wearing this?
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc376/XandriaCD/Photoon2011-04-03at17061.jpg

[annecwesley]

If you dont pass as female should you go out in public?

Someday I may attempt to pass as a female. It’s been a few decades since I really tried, and I was too young and too scared to do it often.
I so enjoy wearing women’s clothing, feeling a soft nylon slip against my shaved, pantyhosed legs, that I’ve decided to give in and do the “guy in a skirt” thing. Even if I shaved and put on a wig and made myself up I know I would not look like a woman. I can appreciate the concerns of some of you here about crossdressers who don’t pass and who look freakish. I try to look good and not outlandish, even choosing skirts with a kiltish look and foregoing heels and other things I like to wear. It’s a look which I think I’m getting to work and I think it’s better than failing to look like something I’m not.

[Christine1954]

so i found this cute outfit.. you tell me.. would you go out in public wearing this?

If I had your figure I would definitely go out, you look fantastic in that outfit.
Christine.

[Brenn]

I have not dressed to "pass" in over a decade. I wear articles of women's clothing becauce I like them or they are comfortable. I try to look nice, and often look better than others I see. Admittedly, my styles is mostly androgynous (flats w/jeans, etc.). It only matters that you are comfortable with yourself. I also feel that by being a bit obvious I may give others who see me encouragement to be more bold. I have not had a bad experience yet.

[donnatracey]

Like most of us, I would not pass as a female in public. However, that doesn't stop me from wearing fem jeans, shorts, tops and some eye makeup/light lipstick along with shaved legs and painted toe nails......:battingeyelashes:

[Lainie]

I never pass, but often go out. Tonight it was a little cool, so I wore a turtleneck with a necklace on the outside, knee-length pencil skirt & pantyhose, leather ballet flats, canvas purse. And handlebar mustache. I got a few odd looks, didn't pay much attention. Sat on the terrace at the restaurant, shaded by vines, watched a DVD on my MacBook, and enjoyed dinner. Age-appropriate fashion, something any respectable woman my age might wear. Except for the handlebar.

[ReineD]

Just out of curiosity, Lainie, why do you keep the mustache? :hugs:

[Leslie Langford]

At the risk of saying something politically incorrect and perhaps offending some people - and considering how high some of us have set this mythical "passing" bar - how "passable" based on those standards were GG's like Julia Child, Janet Reno, Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher, Susan Boyle, and Bea Arthur, among others?

[dack]

I really wish society was more accepting of gender mixing. In a perfect world, men could wear dresses and not care how passable they were (and wear mustaches with it, too). They'd only worry about passing if they personally wanted to.

Do you think it's likely that as transgendered people get more rights, that crossdressers will too? Rights for crossdressers seem to lag behind - ie work codes are modified for transgendered but not for crossdressers. I'm well aware of why this has taken place, but I'd still like to society move more towards general acceptance.

[Tasha McIntyre]

I expect to be read. I really don't care so much. Life is much easier when your head isn't on a swivel trying to see everyone you leave in your wake to determine if you're good enough.

Yes - my thoughts exactly. The moment I stopped worrying about what anyone else (other than my wife) thought was the moment I entered a very happy place. I know I don't "pass" but I also know that I feel very fulfilled whilst hitting the busy shopping mall for a few hours. I try to blend in as much as I can, and smile a lot. I get a lot of smiles back, and a few :eek: as well.

Tash :)

[SarahMarie42]

So much of the stress I now associate with cross dressing (I was never stressed before) centers on whether or not I could potentially pass in public. I'm still not sure whether I could or not, but I figure I should stop worrying so much about it. I'll never know until I try. My BDD issues will not allow me to ascertain whether I could or not until I actually try, to be honest.

[2SpeedTranny]

At the risk of saying something politically incorrect and perhaps offending some people - and considering how high some of us have set this mythical "passing" bar - how "passable" based on those standards were GG's like Janet Reno,


Um... I think that's just proof that the reptilians can pass for human... sorta. :devil:

[Farrah]

Like many others here, I will probably never pass fully. However, I do think that we should carry ourselves in a certain way. Sometimes some cd's may go out and give a bad name to others. I understand you're living out your fantasy, but some of us are simply trying to be accepted to do the thing we love, dress. We all started dressing behind closed doors. I know i dressed behind closed door for years, before I ventured out, and I must say it was amazing. However, I carried myself as a respectable female. I try to dress in age and size appropiate outfits. I understand to each their own but we must think about ourselves as a group. Lets not spoil it for the next girl that wants to venture out...:)

[PretzelGirl]

Do you think it's likely that as transgendered people get more rights, that crossdressers will too? Rights for crossdressers seem to lag behind - ie work codes are modified for transgendered but not for crossdressers. I'm well aware of why this has taken place, but I'd still like to society move more towards general acceptance.

Dack, when you see that laws are for transgendered, that includes crossdressers as they fall under the transgendered umbrella. So when you see cities passing anti-discrimination laws against TGs than CDs are covered too.

[Ericka2]

The person that the op is describing is my Hero.......

Love, Ericka

[pink femme]

eeerrrrrrrrrrrrrr no. I look like a 6 foot pitbull in a dress - i'd love to go out and blend in but i'd end up being smacked - i just couldn't explain that one away.

However, if you feel you could blend in then i guess go for it.

[dawnmarrie1961]

I do not pass as a female and will probably never do (although I am working to atain this image), I spotted a guy today who was dressed in female clothes very inappropriately for his age and could not walk at all in the high heels he was wearing. The make up was very amateurish and he was not at all feminine in his demeanure. He made me feel somewhat ashamed to be a crossdresser but then I realised that he was obviously not. What do others think on this matter?

Christine, try passing as yourself. It works for me. Don't worry so much about being read and enjoy being who you are. Passing is such an overrated concept.
I know it's hard not to make fun about other crossdresser who you see that aren't quite getting it right yet. Look at it this way: It takes a lot of courage to walk out in public like that. So give the lady some credit for that. High heels take a while to learn. It's like walking a tight rope. It takes a lot of practice to master. Not everybody can do it. Ask any young lady who just started wearing high heels. They know.

[Christine1954]

Like many others here, I will probably never pass fully. However, I do think that we should carry ourselves in a certain way. Sometimes some cd's may go out and give a bad name to others. I understand you're living out your fantasy, but some of us are simply trying to be accepted to do the thing we love, dress. We all started dressing behind closed doors. I know i dressed behind closed door for years, before I ventured out, and I must say it was amazing. However, I carried myself as a respectable female. I try to dress in age and size appropiate outfits. I understand to each their own but we must think about ourselves as a group. Lets not spoil it for the next girl that wants to venture out...:)

My sentiments exactly, thank you for putting them so eloquently.
Christine

[Stephanie47]

I know I can never pass for a woman. I'm six foot and two hundred pounds. The best I can do is to take a walk at night or go for a drive. I dress tastefully for my age. I love dresses and heels, although I recently purchased a pair of flats for walking on concrete. Those shoes with the narrow heels make a lot of noise in the evening. I do not want to attract any attention. When I was a lot younger and many pounds lighter I ventured out on several Halloweens. I bought something in a Safeway which drew cat calls from an obnoxious male. On another Halloween I went into a doughnut shop and received a nice compliment from the female cashier. Even though my city and state have favorable laws for cross dressers, there is no guarantee to safety with adolescent males and other idiots. Also, I do not want to embarrass my wife and family if a neighbor recognizes me in or out of my car. Someday I hope to get up the 'balls' to hide them and attend a gathering of cross-dressers. Someday!!!

For those of you that feel you can mingle freely without any recriminations from those around you, my bonnet is off to you!

[Inna]

Geeee, that's a lot of answers. I am focusing more on the original question and what's behind Christine's thought. I very much tend to emphasize passability in order to gain respect, I believe that my own rendition of what shall be deemed appropriate stands from insecurities and shame.
It is rather obvious, when passable, need to face ridicule and laughter is diminished to mere spec of dust and thus fulfill the objective of being dressed as a woman to be one accepted by society at large, not because they are ok with transgenderism, but because they see her as genetic woman.
The conclusion, I feel, brings on another set of questions. This appropriateness of image will be seen differently by different groups of transgender people. I for once want to envelope my entire being in femininity so I can see a true image of a woman I believe to be my entire life. For me passability is of utmost importance and brings on fulfillment curing dysphoric nature of my transgenderism.
I can only imagine that for simple crossdresser, who doesn't yet realize deeper disconnect between body and mind such transformation doesn't seem like the only viable option and near passability is ok. Then there are some others who feel the right to express their inner fem through what ever means possible even they do not pass at all, and kudos to those girls because it takes tremendous guts to do such.

Is it right then to be you, well, if it doesn't cause an accident or a new born baby to cry, or gods wrath upon my region of earth =)..................WHY NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dack]

Dack, when you see that laws are for transgendered, that includes crossdressers as they fall under the transgendered umbrella. So when you see cities passing anti-discrimination laws against TGs than CDs are covered too.

As I understand it, laws do get passed protecting transgendered in the workplace. These do not equally apply to crossdressers. If this were the case, I could move to another state then wear a skirt to work without declaring myself transgendered.

If you know of locations for which this is not the case, I'd be really interested to know about them, though.

[Sharon B.]

I have seen some GG in my time that would be better suited to dress as a male than the female that they were born as.
I know I would make a better looking female than some that I have seen at the very least I try to dress fashionable.
I used to have time to go out somewhat or I should say I made time to go shopping at the local Lane Bryant store on two occasions last year and hope to make it there in the next couple of weeks.

[Angiemead12]

Yes its good to experience going out even though you dont pass, the experience is worth it as it makes you realize what you really want out of CDing.

[Leslie Langford]

At the risk of saying something politically incorrect and perhaps offending some people - and considering how high some of us have set this mythical "passing" bar - how "passable" based on those standards were GG's like Julia Child, Janet Reno, Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher, Susan Boyle, and Bea Arthur, among others?

As an addendum to my previous post, let me add talk show hostess Wendy Williams to my list, and don't tell me that she doesn't at least look like a crossdresser if not an actual "she-male".

She is tall, hefty ("pneumatic"), has had numerous plastic surgeries, sports melon-sized implants, and has often been compared to transsexual performer Amanda Lepore. The behind-the-scenes look at her dressing room and her routine preparations for her show appear more like an M-T-F "Glamazon" transformation session than a regular make up session:

http://www.popeater.com/2011/01/13/wendy-williams-bikini-body-video/

And you tall, muscular "gurls" worry about not passing??? Wendy "owns" it - so should you. :eek::heehee::thumbsup:

[PretzelGirl]

As I understand it, laws do get passed protecting transgendered in the workplace. These do not equally apply to crossdressers. If this were the case, I could move to another state then wear a skirt to work without declaring myself transgendered.


All places. What I am saying is that being a crossdresser is being transgendered by definition. So if there is a law that covers transgendered, then you are covered.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

And you tall, muscular "gurls" worry about not passing??? Wendy "owns" it - so should you. :eek::heehee::thumbsup:

Hah!!! There's hope for me yet. On my own personal standards, I do not pass, therefore I do not go out in public.

[wanagione]

Sometimes it's more than justabout the clothing. I Think that if a person has the courage to go out dressed then that is alright by me. Yes, sometimes some of us
are not at our best, well there are some ggs that arn't always at thier best either. So I don't judge and like i said already, if a person is alrigh with themselves enough to go out, then it's ok.

[2SpeedTranny]

As an addendum to my previous post, let me add talk show hostess Wendy Williams to my list, and don't tell me that she doesn't at least look like a crossdresser if not an actual "she-male".



Can we add Ann Coulter to the list? :D

[Leslie Langford]

Well, O.K. - but she has to get in line behind Camilla Parker-Bowles, Prince Charles' main squeeze...:eek::doh::heehee:

[ReineD]

Awww Leslie, you aren't being nice at all! Are you implying that if a woman is not the picture perfect media beauty ideal then she is manly? :sad:

Also, many of your examples are of older women. It makes sense that older women lose their younger, more feminine looks due to the loss of estrogen, just like older men lose their virile looks due to reduced testosterone. The gender gap in terms of physical appearance reduces as we all age.

Even then, I bet that if you had ever spent some time with any of these women, their amazing spirits would shine through and you would have gotten to see them for the beautiful women they are (political differences where applicable notwithstanding). :p

Edit an hour later: maybe I got your intent wrong. If so, then please just ignore this post.

[Jess Marie]

I with everyone who says who cares. It's your life so do what makes you happy. I probably will never pass as feminine but I already have a date set for my first outing. I'm actively preparing for it.

[steph1964]

I have never been out in public and would need a professional to do my makeup, but I would still feel that I stood out even if I didn't. My insecurity would probably give me away. I am only 5'5" which sucks as a male, but I hope that will help en femme.

[danielletorresani]

I've been able to pass as a female before, so long as I'm wearing long sleeves. Me personally, there is absolutely no way I would have ever gone out if I couldn't pass as a woman. That's the thing that scares me the most, someone looking at me and knowing I'm a dude. Terrifies me...

[Kaz]

I am always very scared about being out and not passing. It is what drives me to stay in hotel rooms and creep around corridors. A couple of years ago I found a place to stay that had a seperate entrance and exit from reception and went out a lot - it was great! Once out I am okay, but it is the reception thing that does it for me.

There is a guy at work who has recently come out. He certainly does not pass, but he is certain about the path he is taking. He doesn't like groups (so won't join this site), and doen't want a "femme" name.

I couldn't do this. I am not that strong. I envy those that are and we should support them wholeheartedly!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

kaz if i could play minitherapy with you i'd say...first off , you look great..really really natural and "female"...there is nothing in your picture that hints male to me...second..what you really afraid of happening...you say you are not that strong..
I promise you that if you were clocked, it's a smile or smirk..over the years i was afraid (prior to transition of course)...I lurked in parking lots, turned my back on people, etc...

i was laughed at...mocked by a passerby who looked at me and smirked and said "nice dress" and burst out laughing...i was mocked by a clerk "are you kidding me??"... i was yelled at across the street "hey tranny!! hey you!! hey dude!! " etc..
nobody was more scared than me...you can do it..and before you tell me how big you are i have been out at 6'2" 235 lbs...hairy arms and legs...it took me awhile..but in the end you just practice babysteps..and soon you are shopping on the high street and having people call you maam in between any awkward moments you may have.

also read alexia's point...i am a believer that the fear word is really better thought of as the "guilt and shame" words...its so prevalent in the ts and cd world, even the concept of starting a thread like this oozes shame..

It's not easy to deal with an issue that causes you to feel like you are a lower form of life, but that's just what shame does to you... and the closer you are to feeling this is your identity (rather than your fetish or a turn on), the worse it is, the closer it is to your identity, the more you want to go out and express yourself, and the more you try to avoid the horrible feeling that your identity is not working out there in the real world....by standing up to whatever happens, you feed your identity, and you learn (even though it can be rough) to just be yourself, and the rewards are really wonderful if you can do it..

[t-girlxsophie]

I don't fear going out anymore.that passed (pardon the pun) a long time ago.Last time out my Wife and I were out we went to more mainstream places e.g. Pizza Hut,and it was an eye opener to us both,no-one batted an eye lid and this place was full of ppl from across the board age wise,inc youngsters.It has given me a boost to my self confidence,even going out on my own in Glasgow's and Edinburgh's busiest streets.I don't "pass" but I do my best to do as good a job as I can.

But Even though I am positive on the whole these days,Sometimes though I still have nagging doubts that when thinking of maybe taking it further still.Like going to the theatre,or dining out in a Nice Restaurant that maybe It's the one's that do Pass that are better perceived by people,I suppose the best way to test that theory is the Wife and I should get the gladrags on and have a Night out

Sophie

[Leslie Langford]

Awww Leslie, you aren't being nice at all! Are you implying that if a woman is not the picture perfect media beauty ideal then she is manly? :sad:

Also, many of your examples are of older women. It makes sense that older women lose their younger, more feminine looks due to the loss of estrogen, just like older men lose their virile looks due to reduced testosterone. The gender gap in terms of physical appearance reduces as we all age.

Even then, I bet that if you had ever spent some time with any of these women, their amazing spirits would shine through and you would have gotten to see them for the beautiful women they are (political differences where applicable notwithstanding). :p

Edit an hour later: maybe I got your intent wrong. If so, then please just ignore this post.

Hi Reine,

I totally agree with you, and that is exactly my point - maybe I just didn't articulate it properly.

Beauty absolutely is only skin deep, and the GG's I referenced above are all amazing and accomplished women in their own right and terrific role models. And what makes their successes even more remarkable is the fact that they couldn't fall back on smashing good looks to be recognized and get ahead in life despite the fact that we have become so shallow and celebrity-obsessed as a society that we often judge people by their appearance and "star-power" first and foremost. It is this type of sexism that these ladies overcame through intellect, ability, drive, and sheer willpower, and which makes them all the more remarkable as a result.

Prince Charles chose "homely" Camilla over Princess Diana because he connected with her on a far deeper level than looks, breeding, or "wow" factor alone, unlike that neurotic, vain, ditsy, and publicity-seeking clotheshorse whom he married first partly to meet the public's expectations of what a fairy-tale princess should be. Sadly, she only had looks, youth, and celebrity status going for her but not much else, and he finally came to his senses. And even the public finally came around and recognized that maybe - just maybe - Camilla really was the right person for him after all despite all those snide remarks about her alleged frumpy style of dress and "horse face", and that they truly fulfilled each other as the soul-mates that they were underneath it all.

That's why I say that while some of us gurlz may not qualify as beauty queens (or even come close!) in the traditional sense, there is no need for us to hide in the shadows because we feel that we might not "pass". Many GG's don't "pass" either when measured by that yardstick, but they refuse to let that hold them back, are proud of who and what they are, and still manage to live their lives to the fullest. And you know what? - When people see that positive attitude they respond in kind, and somehow, looks then suddenly become totally irrelevant as to how they are perceived. And so it is for us, if only we have the courage to challenge ourselves in this way...

[ReineD]

TgirlSophie & Kaz, when I first started dating my SO she wasn't going out in public, other than her TG support group meetings. Over the next 2 years she made a concerted effort to do so, beginning with regular evenings at our local GLBT alternative night club. Sometimes she would just go on her own and sit there for a few hours while sipping a diet Coke (she doesn't drink). And then she began going to gay friendly areas in a city a few hours away: restaurants, cafes, etc. She then expanded to going to art galleries, more mainstream restaurants, cafes, shopping, bookstores, grocery stores, etc, but not in our home town. At first she would check these places out first in guy mode, but this is no longer necessary.

We only had just one rule: if either she or I ever felt uncomfortable with the vibes of whatever place we were at, we'd simply leave, no questions asked. I've got to say that it never happened.

Now she did make some minor changes to her appearance in order to feel more comfortable out: laser facial hair removal (just a few sessions since her beard had gray in it, and the laser only works on dark beard :p), pierced ears, growing her own nails, plucked eyebrows but not overly so, shaved arms & upper chest, etc. She also has naturally long, curly hair that he ties back in boy mode.

She discovered after a few months of going out, to her surprise, that her fears were unwarranted. And just as everyone else says who are out in the mainstream, we seldom have anyone say anything to us. Most people don't notice but if they do and stare, this doesn't mean they are judging us negatively. I like to think they are just trying to figure us out, and if they could, they would ask us a lot of questions. :) A few people smirk, but they are easily stared down.


Leslie ... fair 'nuff! :) I do agree it is not necessary to be a beauty queen in order to be 'valid'.

As to Camilla, look up pictures of her when she first met prince Charles. She was kinda cute! I was also surprised to see a rather nice, photograph of young Golda Meir. :)

[LilSissyStevie]

And you tall, muscular "gurls" worry about not passing??? Wendy "owns" it - so should you. :eek::heehee::thumbsup:

I think the one who "owns" it is Nicole Bass (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/Diesel67/Bodybuilding/NicoleBass.jpg):eek:

[Leslie Langford]

I think the one who "owns" it is Nicole Bass (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/Diesel67/Bodybuilding/NicoleBass.jpg):eek:

OMG! Hans, Franz, and...Nicole??? No girly-men here - LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Ko3fODp3c&NR=1

[Jeannie]

I do not pass as a female and will probably never do (although I am working to atain this image), I spotted a guy today who was dressed in female clothes very inappropriately for his age and could not walk at all in the high heels he was wearing. The make up was very amateurish and he was not at all feminine in his demeanure. He made me feel somewhat ashamed to be a crossdresser but then I realised that he was obviously not. What do others think on this matter?

Could this person be someone who is new to crossdressing and really didn't have anyone to help them with presentation? I know that most of us see one thing in the mirror but in reality it is really not the truth and not what other people will see. I like to wear sexy clothes but I really don't look very sexy in them. Some of the things I wear are not age appropriate but if I ever pick up the nerve to out I may be guilty of wearing some of them because it is all I have. Maybe it was the day he picked up the nerve to out in public for the first time and what he saw in the mirror was enough to make him feel like he could pull it off. I applaud him for having the courage to go out and try. That is more than I can say for myself.

Jeannie

[MissBobbi]

Not looking like a convincing GG is what stops me from going out...

[shaq91]

Here's a pic of me out at the mall about 2 weeks ago.... I think i looked great and i'm not wearing a wig or make up!

http://twitpic.com/4tsjbx

and here's another one of me at the mall in January!

http://twitpic.com/3tcmsl

[Prissy Linda]

Here's a pic of me out at the mall about 2 weeks ago.... I think i looked great and i'm not wearing a wig or make up!

http://twitpic.com/4tsjbx

and here's another one of me at the mall in January!

http://twitpic.com/3tcmsl

Shaq, I think you look great... very cute. :)

[shaq91]

Shaq, I think you look great... very cute. :)

Thank you i'm glad u think so <3

[NicoleScott]

Prince Charles chose "homely" Camilla over Princess Diana because he connected with her on a far deeper level than looks, breeding, or "wow" factor alone, unlike that neurotic, vain, ditsy, and publicity-seeking clotheshorse whom he married first partly to meet the public's expectations of what a fairy-tale princess should be. Sadly, she only had looks, youth, and celebrity status going for her but not much else, and he finally came to his senses. And even the public finally came around and recognized that maybe - just maybe - Camilla really was the right person for him after all despite all those snide remarks about her alleged frumpy style of dress and "horse face", and that they truly fulfilled each other as the soul-mates that they were underneath it all.

I agree that Charles finally ended up with the right person for him. You give him credit for coming to his senses, but dragging Diana through the mud wasn't necessary. He married someone he knew wasn't right for him. She did the same. She had looks, youth, and celebrity. He had celebrity.
She was a fairy-tale princess. The problem was, she didn't have a fairy-tale prince.
The new couple can now go to a costume party as a horse - no costume needed. Both ends of the horse are now together.

[NyssaF]

It's this kind of attitude that ensures I'll hide inside forever. I don't do makeup nor wig - don't really want to - but I can enjoy being dressed to the nines. And want to be around other people while looking that way. But when other cross-dressers say I shouldn't, how in the world could I ever do so?

:(

[msginaadoll]

Just Me, the only thing that can keep you or anyone else from getting out is yourself. The truth is noone knows when they go out each time if they will be accepted, rejected, laughed at, spit on, attacked or even hugged. Its a choice each person makes. It is not easy to get out the front door or backdoor, or hotel door but it can be a fun one. Just my two cents.