Do CD's Transition?

[BreenaDion]

This point was brought up in the TS section an I figured Id post it here.
The point was CD'S when they get older transition into woman. Take HRT and have Surgeries to be classified as females. I just wanted feed back on this point please.
From what I gather, thou not scientific, but CD's are Men, period. They often express the female side by dressing I know this but plain an simple they are Men. So if they are then why do they transition or do some TS's have this all wrong ?
Love to hear your view points on this, think it might bridge the gap between transgendered groups.
Thank you.

I also want to add that I am 56 and on HRT for 16 months and you guessed right I am a TS.
Breena.

[Shananigans]

In my humble opinion...

I'd say that a person who transitions and is happy with the result was never a CD. This person was always TG and identifying as the opposite sex to which he/she was born into, but only was able to make the full transition later in life. Perhaps others classified this person as a CD because he/she was not on HRT and had not undergone SRS....but, this person never really was a CD...just a TS on the way to transitioning.

A true CD, on the other hand, does not feel as though he/she was born into the wrong gender and does not feel gender dysphoria or a desire to transition to feel "complete".

I think this is what you are asking.

[Phoebe P.]

This should get a lot of response! There are a lot of people here with very different viewpoints.

Personally, I have no intention to make a transition. I'm happily married and don't want to leave this world without everything I came into it with!

[sissystephanie]

Breena, some CD's do transition to fully become women. But I believe that is a small number of CD's! I personally have been a crossdresser for over 60 years and do not have, nor have I ever had, the desire to be a woman. I just like to wear feminine clothing, and so do a lot of other CD's who feel the same as I do!!

For a man to actually become a woman is a very involved project! BTW, not all CD's are men. Any person who wears the clothing of the opposite sex is technically a CD, whether it is a man or a woman!

[Fran Moore]

I'm speechless, but no, dear, that is not very good information.

Rather than going into a long drawn out explanation, all the answers to that question can be found by searching this site.:eek:

Suzanne

[Kathryn Philips]

Funny you ask because I was going to ask a similar sort of question. Which is how many in this forum, after having been lifelong CDs and are now in their 50s or so, have come to realise they are TG/TS and want to take this further?

[BreenaDion]

Thank you, Shenanigans, and I loved that music video LOL I just love Lady Gaga so it was ok for me, 2 thumbs up LOL
Breena.

[Phoebe P.]

Don't know if it's true, but I read somewhere 90% of CD's are heterosexual and most are married.

[Shananigans]

Don't know if it's true, but I read somewhere 90% of CD's are heterosexual and most are married.

True, true...but, a TS can be heterosexual and married too.

[crystalann]

In 2008 I started my transition and now I'm done and live my life as I always felt I should have been. I did cross-dress most of my early age but felt it was so wrong for me to do it. I my heart I felt I could never get to the point where I could transition. So what would I have been if I didn't, would I still been a cross-dresser or transgender M2F? that never moved forward? I can't say. But love where I'm at now. :2c:

[Phoebe P.]

You just blew my mind! :D

[Sophie_C]

It's very simple. Some people are CD's and will always be CD's, whether they initially understand it or not. Some people who think they are CD's don't completely understand they are TS and will later transition once they come to that realization. There are no people who are simply CD's who should ever transition. That's what the SOC are for.

[Julogden]

I would say that if someone transitions and has reassignment surgery, that defines them as being transexual, not a CD. CD's don't transition. A person may feel that they are a CD for many years until they finally realize that they are actually TS and then go through transition, but they've been a TS all along and just didn't realize it.

Carol

[Marissa]

To keep this from being maneuvered over to being about labels, a cd/tg’s transition is not based on age (except as law dictates, ie below 18) so it’s not about ‘when they get older’. It can be based on realization or discovery, financial reasons, family/self acceptance, or desire. I say desire because some do know they are in the wrong body, but will not go the full course for whatever reason they choose. Now all of this is based on what I have read in here and other sources, not in my personal experience as I am only a crossdresser, with no desire to transition.

[Fran Moore]

I'm so glad that you have found happiness Crystalann! And I will take a moment to explain. Your first sentence said it all. You live your life as you always felt it should have been. THAT is the difference between a Crossdresser and a transsexual. You always felt "female", just born with the wrong "parts". If you had never had the surgery and did not transition, you would have still been a transsexual, just "nonop". You can't change what your brain tells you is right. While you may have been wearing womens clothing, you were never a Crossdresser hon. Being transgendered is the "umbrella" that crossdressers and transsexuals share, but they are truly two very different people. Hope that helps answer you question.:battingeyelashes:

Suzanne
In 2008 I started my transition and now I'm done and live my life as I always felt I should have been. I did cross-dress most of my early age but felt it was so wrong for me to do it. I my heart I felt I could never get to the point where I could transition. So what would I have been if I didn't, would I still been a cross-dresser or transgender M2F? that never moved forward? I can't say. But love where I'm at now. :2c:

[Phoebe P.]

Let me get this "straight". I'm still pretty new to this. All Crossdressers are transgendered?

[Shananigans]

Let me get this "straight". I'm still pretty new to this. All Crossdressers are transgendered?

Nope. There are "crossdressers" that claim they wear the clothes simply because they like the clothes. As in, they are NOT trying to come across as a female. In other words, they are a man in a skirt or vice versa.

It can be bantered about all day as to whether this makes them a CD or not. (See thread about women crossdressing because we wear jeans and blah blah blah) But, I'd say the majority of CDs are TG on some level. There is a TG spectrum actually that is kind of a nice way of thinking about things because it's not so black and white.

The spectrum:

Gender play..................CD/TV...............TS..........Post-op TS

So, instead of saying you are black and white a TS or a CD, you could be falling somewhere between the two.

Transgendered is the umbrella term for the community, but some people that are dressing adamantly say that they are not TG. So, you can't always assume.

[Phoebe P.]

Very nice. Thank you for explaining. That makes perfect sense. My best friends have always been girls/women. My wife is my best friend. Women have always been comfortable around me. Could just be my Southern upbringing and respect for women. Have to ponder that...

[Julogden]

Let me get this "straight". I'm still pretty new to this. All Crossdressers are transgendered?

Yes. The term "transgender" is now an umbrella term for all of us regardless of which flavor we are. It formerly referred to people who cross-lived in their gender role of choice without undergoing sex reassignment surgery, but it's not often used in that manner anymore.

Carol

[AnnaCalliope]

We now have a Yes and a No to the question of "Are all crossdressers transgendered?"

In my honest opinion, not all crossdressers can be considered transgendered. It would have to be determined on a case by case basis. Some drag queens and kings, while being crossdressers, see it purely as performance art or a certain level of acting. I personally know several guys who enjoy wearing skirts, most of the time over their boy pants and while that's considered crossdressing, not a single one of them has any interest in becoming or even presenting as female.

My real question is, why the heck do we need another label?

[Fran Moore]

And my answer to your "real question" is.......We Don't! Labels are confusing, misleading and unecessary. We are all individuals, and it's much more important to just be yourself, be happy, and live life to the fullest.:)

Suzanne
We now have a Yes and a No to the question of "Are all crossdressers transgendered?"

In my honest opinion, not all crossdressers can be considered transgendered. It would have to be determined on a case by case basis. Some drag queens and kings, while being crossdressers, see it purely as performance art or a certain level of acting. I personally know several guys who enjoy wearing skirts, most of the time over their boy pants and while that's considered crossdressing, not a single one of them has any interest in becoming or even presenting as female.

My real question is, why the heck do we need another label?

[Melissa Rose]

Again with the labels and associated rigid definitions. :-) If I had to label myself, it would be a TS who has elected to stop before HRT and SRS. I've undergone electrolysis and laser over most of my body, and I'll probably get a tracheal shave within the year. That will be as far as I will go. I have a number of personal reasons for my decision. Most would label me a crossdresser because of where I've elected to stop the transformation process and because I'm not full time. I would rather to have lived and continue to live my life as a woman, but it is a decision I'm at peace with and not unhappy about it. Whatever I'm labeled does not really matter, all that matters is I'm me.

[ReineD]

Here's a well thought out theory, together with an abstract of the supporting clinical study:

Identitygender.com: "A Question of Early or Late Onset Transsexualism" (http://www.identitygender.com/2011/02/27/a-question-of-early-or-late-onset-transsexualism.html'), drawn from "Age of Onset and Sexual Orientation in Transsexual Males and Females (Abstract) (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21143416)", by Nieder et al.

In a nutshell, the majority of FtMs in the study had signs of early onset gender identity disorder (78%) and late onset (13%) with residual (9.1%), as compared to MtFs early onset (39%), late onset (48%), with residual (13%).

The person who wrote this article proposes that the gender incongruence is there for all cases early in life, but for a variety of reasons, a substantial amount of MtF transsexuals do not realize it until later. These TSs may well identify as CDers for some years.

This is likely the source of the confusion?



Let me get this "straight". I'm still pretty new to this. All Crossdressers are transgendered?

Depends on who you ask. It is generally accepted that TG is an umbrella term for everyone who crosses the gender barrier in some way. But, a lot of people here equate the term with transsexuality, or somewhere "in between" crossdressing and transsexuality. IMO, either someone is transexual or they are not. They could however be Questioning, in which case I propose we all agree to use TSQ for the "in betweenies". :)

I can't tell you how often we've had this debate over semantics, TG vs. TS. :p

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Simple, the older you get the less family members are around who tell you what you can or can't do within the family unit. Most of the younger generational members do not care about what you do so you are able to make decisions without "affecting" the parents, uncles and aunts or close cousins. Your time left on this earth is getting shorter hence there becomes an urgence to make a decision such as transitioning fully. If you whinge a lot and become more demanding then the children will agree with anything you say just to shut you up. :) Then you become that eccentric family member no one wants to visit.
QED

[DeeInGeorgia]

In my opinion, the most important point about the "transgender" label is the self identification requirement. Efemmenant gay men or masculine lesbians may exhibit transgender characteristics but are not transgender unless they self identify as such. The same goes for transsexual people and those that were TS that have transitioned. They may have been TG (or may have not been TG) and after transition may or may identify as TG. The same for the crossdresser or the drag queen/king, they are only TG if they self identify as such.

And remember, TG is not just about the clothes or crossdressing, it is about where the mind is, it is about being comfortable with who you are and not letting others try to fit you into their own labeled boxes.

[Renee_E]

I call myself a CD because I have chosen not to transition because I don't feel I could handle the stress it would bring to my life. I have from my earliest memories wanted to be a girl. When I was young there was no SRS and if you had a male body that was what you were. I worked a long time to gain acceptance as a male and to be more masculine, now I am older and have decided to enjoy who I am more. Am I TS? Yes, but I just rather leave that part of me in the closet for now.

[sarahNZ]

God I hope so.

I can't talk for the rest of the community only myself, but I am a "streight" man 32 not maried (the divorce paper is framed and hanging on the wall of my flat)

I have always been a crossdresser as long as I can rightly remember, it has been the cause of a lot of heartbreak in my life and I am still sitting here infront of my computer in good everyday fashionable ladies clothing complete with bra, forms and the rest, hell I even sleep with my breast forms on. If I was sure my boss would take it well I would work dressed as well!

I remember when I was around 10 (give or take a few) watching a docco type program about some transexual women. The comments coming out of my beloved mothers mouth made my heart sink and I knew it would never be a good time to tell her that I thought I was supposed to be one of those ladys myself. At that moment I felt their pain. Sadly mother would never let me hear the end of it so growing up all dreams of being that woman were dashed, and I got on with the life of a male... crossdressing all the way!

I filled out my last censor form by crossing out both male and female boxes and writing underneith "Transgender" but still class myself as a crossdresser. maybe one day I will win lotto and then I can afford to go further but untill that day comes I will still be a crossdresser in my mind (untill it starts to wonder again)

Are you as confused about this answer as I am?

[Nicole L.]

I can't speak for everyone else, nor should I. But as for me," Would I transition if it were possible?", YES! I'm getting older, but I've felt this way for most of my life. So my age has nothing to do with it. The cost & my family are the main reason's I haven't done more,yet.
I'm also not into label's. So whether I'm a cd/tg/ts really doesn't matter. I'm just me. The correct way that I'd like to fill out any form's with Male or Female boxes, would be the third box. None of the above.
The straight, bi, or gay question has alway's puzzled me, too. I've only been with women. So, to most that would qualify me as straight. But, in IMO, I wouldn't be wearing dress's if I were really straight. Again. that's my opinion, of me. No one else but me. I don't judge other's, only myself.
Nicole

[Kate Simmons]

I dunno Hon. I let lawyers worry about the details. I just worry about being myself.:)

[KrystalA]

I'm a lifelong CDer who has no desire to undergo SRS. I've been crossdressing for so long that when I'm en femme, properly 'tucked', etc., I don't even feel as if I have male equipment anymore. And with an accepting SO, who encourages and supports my CDing, I've discovered that I now feel more feminine than ever, and I love it.

[sometimes_miss]

The point was CD'S when they get older transition into woman.
Some do, some don't. Those that do, will naturally hope that their choice is the best, correct one, and will feel better believing that it is the best choice, so they project that feeling onto others.

[NicoleScott]

Again, we get hung up on words. And it's because we use the definitions we like instead of the generally accepted (dictionary) ones. For example, the dfference between crossdressing and transvestism. Some say there's no difference, and some think there is. But let's not re-open that can of worms.
The same with what transgendered means. Some believe that because they identify as female they are not crossdressing, but are transgendered and are wearing clothes appropriate to their identity. But, the dictionary defines TG much more broadly, as Reine said in post#22. Crossdressers, among others, fall into the TG umbrella because they exhibit some behavior (dressing) that crosses traditional gender lines.
But Dee, in post #24, says that being TG is not about the clothes, but about the self-identification. And many others have adopted that use of the word. So if it's about the clothes, it's crossdressing, but if it's about your identity, it's TG. This is an attempt to re-define TG for use only by identity dressers. Sounds like identity dressers want to separate themselves from those who wear dresses but don't identity as female, so they've hijacked a word for themselves. Not that I'm totally against that, but picking a new term would work better.
I agree with the labels argument. Some folks can't fit nicely into one box. But maybe in this case we need a new term for people who are male sex but female gender. Wait. We have one. TS. You don't have to have SRS or take hormones to be TS. You can be no-op or pre-op. But TS is misleading, because unless you have had SRS you haven't changed your sex, but have a gender that doesn't match the sex. So it looks like TG is more descriptive. The problem is the TG word already has a definition, and it's proper use is broad and includes CD's.
I see no solution is sight.

[Julogden]

We now have a Yes and a No to the question of "Are all crossdressers transgendered?"

In my honest opinion, not all crossdressers can be considered transgendered. It would have to be determined on a case by case basis. Some drag queens and kings, while being crossdressers, see it purely as performance art or a certain level of acting. I personally know several guys who enjoy wearing skirts, most of the time over their boy pants and while that's considered crossdressing, not a single one of them has any interest in becoming or even presenting as female.

My real question is, why the heck do we need another label?

We need well-defined labels in order to carry on conversations on given subjects in a manner that ensures we all are talking about the same thing. If someone calls a piece of fruit an apple and you call it an orange, you're going to have trouble discussing the qualities of apples or oranges in any kind of effective manner. So to have an effective conversation, there has to be an agreement on what various words and terms mean.

Labels are not inherently judgmental, they are just words. Some people do attach value judgements to some labels, but that's a human fault and isn't an indicator that labels are bad.

The "transgender" term, when used as an umbrella, inclusive term is far from being rigid. It encompasses a huge range of people and behaviors and has rather blurry boundaries, quite nebulous, and hetero CD's are definitely included under the TG umbrella, as it's currently defined.

I feel that many CD's (not all) who deny being included in the transgender category do so because it involves their political and possibly religious beliefs involving laws ensuring equal right for LGBT people, but it's pretty much impossible to discuss that here without having the discussion turn into a political scrum.

Carol

[Joanne f]

I would think that it may have a connection as to why you cross dress in the first place , if you are someone who cross dress`s because you feel that you are transgendered then you already have a fair amount of feminine feelings within you , now there must be some that are on a higher scale and some on a lower scale of their feminine side that pulls at them and for many reasons this can also be affected by your lifestyle , maybe pushed into the background a bit until later on in life you start to let or accept those feelings emerge a lot more and seeing that you have spent most of your life as one half of you dual gender your other half starts to say " hey now its time for the experience of life as my other half.

[ReineD]

Do CDs transition?

God I hope so.

I remember when I was around 10 (give or take a few) watching a docco type program about some transexual women. The comments coming out of my beloved mothers mouth made my heart sink and I knew it would never be a good time to tell her that I thought I was supposed to be one of those ladys myself. At that moment I felt their pain. Sadly mother would never let me hear the end of it so growing up all dreams of being that woman were dashed, and I got on with the life of a male... crossdressing all the way!

I filled out my last censor form by crossing out both male and female boxes and writing underneith "Transgender" but still class myself as a crossdresser. maybe one day I will win lotto and then I can afford to go further but untill that day comes I will still be a crossdresser in my mind (untill it starts to wonder again)

But then you're not a CDer to begin with, you're transsexual! There are TSs who, for a variety of reasons, have not started HRT. There are also TSs who choose to not have SRS, again for a variety of reasons. This doesn't take away from their feelings of being a woman in a man's body.

The so called CDers who end up transitioning later in life are not CDers to begin with! :) They are the rather large proportion of TSs who, for whatever other reasons, could not bring themselves to identify as TS until later on in life. See the study link in post #23. In this study, there were more late onset TSs than early onsets. Just because they may have called themselves "CD" doesn't mean they were.

The other thing the study indicates to me is, there are relatively few TSs who do call themselves CDers for extended lengths of time. I conclude this from the relatively small proportion of overall TSs to the comparatively large number of true CDers.

[Shananigans]

But then you're not a CDer to begin with, you're transsexual! There are TSs who, for a variety of reasons, have not started HRT. There are also TSs who choose to not have SRS, again for a variety of reasons. This doesn't take away from their feelings of being a woman in a man's body.

The so called CDers who end up transitioning later in life are not CDers to begin with! :) They are the rather large proportion of TSs who, for whatever other reasons, could not bring themselves to identify as TS until later on in life. See the study link in post #23. In this study, there were more late onset TSs than early onsets. Just because they may have called themselves "CD" doesn't mean they were.

The other thing the study indicates to me is, there are relatively few TSs who do call themselves CDers for extended lengths of time. I conclude this from the relatively small proportion of overall TSs to the comparatively large number of true CDers.

I think various people have said this in so many ways over and over again, but I'm convinced no one actually reads.

On a side note, if a TS doesn't call himself/herself a CD for an extended period of time, then why do we see it so much on this forum? People that I would classify as TS call themselves CDs...and, then there are the TS who are transitioning who still say they are a CDs. AHHHHHH!!!!!! Confusion!

Labels are weird...necessary...but, a source of major confusion.

[Jennifer Devine]

I've been crossdressing for about 5 years nearly and have thought about wanting to become a woman in the past but my family who know about my dressing would never agree with it and where i live, word gets around pretty quick unfortunately as there are a lot of gossips.
When i dress, i like to look as feminine as possible and i feel that the choice of clothes that women have are much more varied than men's clothes and feel a lot nicer to wear.
I know that i'm old enough to make the desicion for myself but i don't want to do anything that will hurt or upset my family.

[ReineD]

On a side note, if a TS doesn't call himself/herself a CD for an extended period of time, then why do we see it so much on this forum?

I didn't express myself correctly. I meant there are fewer TSs who call themselves CD (IMO) than there are CDers (who also call themselves CD). :p



Labels are weird...necessary...but, a source of major confusion.

Yes, they are necessary, especially in a forum where our only form of expression is the written word. lol

I've often wondered if the general distaste for [-]labels[/-] definitions stems from a reluctance to just face things head on.

[Shananigans]

Yes, they are necessary, especially in a forum where our only form of expression is the written word. lol

I've often wondered if the general distaste for [-]labels[/-] definitions stems from a reluctance to just face things head on.

I really don't understand it. People half-ass read a thread and then say, "Oh my GOD you are using labels! That's so ridiculous! We are all individuals....why can't this just be the 1960s where we were all individuals and loved each other and never had labels."

Pretty positive there were labels in the 60s. Also pretty positive that every sane person uses labels in their every day life without realizing it. I'd love to see how quickly human language and modern communication goes to hell without labels.

So, the real problem may be that they don't like what people are labeling themselves as... And, okay, fair enough. However, I think it should be addressed by said person WHY they detest the label... Is it because the label is spot on and they don't want to admit it to themselves? Or, is it because it's completely wrong...and wrong because they can't really explain what's going on in their heads because they are so lost in their own identity? There is ALWAYS a reason why someone labels you as something and you have to figure out why that is for one reason or another and not just throw your hands up and say, "I'm a flower child and I've never labeled anything a day in my life! I don't label coffee as 'coffee' I call it the black substance of life, but my mom thought I was referring to my ex boyfriend!"

[crystalann]

labels are for cans!:notlistening:

[Shananigans]

labels are for cans!:notlistening:

If labels are for cans and you have transitioned, do you want to be called a woman? Are using female pronouns important to you? Would you be offended if someone said HE is a CD and HE transitioned.

Idk about you, but I'd sh*t bricks. And, that's all about labeling.

[sarahNZ]

Labels are weird...necessary...but, a source of major confusion.

I'll second that!!!!!

[NicoleScott]

I filled out my last censor form by crossing out both male and female boxes and writing underneith "Transgender".....

I assume you meant census form. Did the form ask for your sex or your gender?

[crystalann]

You and anyone else can call me what you want. I cant change your thinking and really don't care too. My point was not to label people and I guess you missed my point. :devil:

[Shananigans]

You and anyone else can call me what you want. I cant change your thinking and really don't care too. My point was not to label people and I guess you missed my point. :devil:

I saw your point. My point is that most people are fine and dandy with saying screw all labels; however, when people are labeled inappropriately it matters.

If I spent thousands of dollars to get my sex to match my gender, I better be f*cking called by the sex that matches my gender. And, I bet a nickel that if it came to what it says on your driver's license, you wouldn't want it to say male.

[kimdl93]

I think one of the most difficult things for any of us is to decide where we fall on the specturm of behaviors as they relate to gender identification. I used the term gender identification to avoid TG, TS, CD, etc, but it doesn't fully express what I mean. Each person's sexuality, gender identification, preferences in clothing - all combined - probably in a unique way for each of us. And that point - probably somewhere in a universe of multiple dimensions makes answering the OP question difficult enough.

Then we add to the complexity by changing as we go through life. For example, I was pretty sure I was a bisexual perve at 19 because I wore panty hose and had a m/m experience. In my first marriage, I explained away my bi-experience as a youthful indiscretion and considered my CDing as a harmesll fetish. Now, after a marriage, a decade and a lot of counseling during the interval I view myself as a transgendered person, predominantly heterosexual and entirely monogamous, with a stong preference for living and presenting as female. So, was the initial label wrong or did experience, changing hormones, and therapy make me a different person?

[ReineD]

Kim, if you had had more information when you were 19, and had we all grown up in an environment where alternative (to the binary) gender and sexuality were wholeheartedly accepted as being a part of a sliding scale norm, would your views of yourself have changed over time, do you think? Or would you have come to the conclusion that you are who you are much earlier?

[juno]

The problem with labels is that they tend to be identified with distinct stereotypes. It is better to use these terms as adjectives rather than labels, to describe some general attributes. They are meaningful but should be considered very general.

Consider the word "tall". It is useful and meaningful, but imprecise not used as a label. A short basketball player may still be tall versus the average person. Likewise, most gender terms are non-precise. There is no cutoff for being tall or TG. A genetic male might consider him/herself TG in the company of masculine men, but CD in the company of trans-women.

As for CDs transitioning towards TG, I think that is generally true for many people. Most of us start out trying to be "normal" males, and gradually accept and enjoy our feminine nature. Over time, we lose some of our learned behavior in trying to conform to a perceived "normal" male, and become ourselves. Some people transition a little towards female, some transition a lot. Often, people cycle in a struggle between conformance and self-acceptance. The point is that most of us start out as a "learned" male and transition towards our true self, which may be anywhere in the male/female spectrum. Also, male versus female is not a global attribute, so people can be male in some ways and female in other ways, making each of us unique.

[kimdl93]

Kim, if you had had more information when you were 19, and had we all grown up in an environment where alternative (to the binary) gender and sexuality were wholeheartedly accepted as being a part of a sliding scale norm, would your views of yourself have changed over time, do you think? Or would you have come to the conclusion that you are who you are much earlier?

Reine, I don't consider myself as transitioning, because I'm not seeking SRS or HRT, but I suppose to some extent I've shifted more in that direction. I do suspect that my attitude about myself would have been quite different, then and now, with the benefit of more information, a more accepting environment, and perhaps earlier counseling. The underlying force - something I've felt since my earliest awareness - is apart of me that identifies as female. So, perhaps coming to grips with that earlier, in a more hospitable environment would have lead me towards transitioning.

[Rianna Humble]

This point was brought up in the TS section an I figured Id post it here.
The point was CD'S when they get older transition into woman. Take HRT and have Surgeries to be classified as females. I just wanted feed back on this point please.

From what I gather, though not scientific, but CD's are Men, period. They often express the female side by dressing I know this but plain an simple they are Men. So if they are then why do they transition or do some TS's have this all wrong ?

Hi Breena, I seem to have missed this sweeping generalisation when it was posted in the TS forum.

As others, including Reine and Shananigans have said, those who transition were most probably TS all along but possibly could not bring themselves to accept that aspect of themselves. There are a small number of non-TS Cd's who choose to go down the Hormone Therapy path for reasons best understood by themselves, but I believe them to be in the minority both in the CD population and on the TS forum.

Some of us (myself included) at one point had an irrational fear of accepting that we are TS. WHen I first admitted to myself that I was not a cisgendered male, I was determined just to be a "bloke in a dress" despite the fact that I have known since my earliest childhood memories that I am not truly male. At that specific point in time, I rationalised that I could accept myself as a cross-dresser whilst denying the truth of my trannsexuality. Guess what? It didn't work!

So if you look back at my earliest postings here, I did identify as CD rather than TS, but I was lying to myself. Althouh I may be counted by whoever made the sweeping generalisation as proof of their hypothesis, it would be fundamentally wrong to do so.

[Fab Karen]

If a TS told you that, they're wrong in the general sense. ( mtf )CD's run the spectrum from the hirsute fetishist in a pair of panties to the emotional-needs based fully head-to-toe femme-looking & acting person. Some people who CD eventually feel they've been repressing their true nature & decide to transition, but that isn't true for many.

[NathalieX66]

i am not of the variety that wants to go all the way like quite few that I have met.
I consider myself gender non-binary, or gender fluid.......I play it both ways genderwise.....works for me.

By the way, there's the famous line of "whats the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual?.......answer: two years". .....happens to some.

[Sue101]

I don't buy the idea that you can be a transsexual but not know it for decades. Transsexuality is a very specific state of mind and every day while remaining a male is a monumental struggle to survive. This is not what late onset trannsexuals describe at all. A more realistic take is that they are crossdressers whose female persona grows and expands continuously until it becomes the dominant personality at which point the decison is made to jettison the remaining remants of maleness.

[NicoleScott]

Good point, Sue101 (#53 ^). How about those who didn't start (or have the desire to start) crossdressing until they were in their forties or fifties? Were they always crossdressers who never crossdressed before and never even wanted to, or did they have have a late onset of crossdressing? What might have triggered it?

[ReineD]

I don't buy the idea that you can be a transsexual but not know it for decades.

Whether you buy it or not, sadly it is the reality for many. Just pay attention to the TSs' stories here. And if you ever go to TG support groups where there are older TSs, just ask them. In most cases, they will tell you they knew all along, but weren't ready to face it. :sad:

[kimdl93]

I don't buy the idea that you can be a transsexual but not know it for decades. Transsexuality is a very specific state of mind and every day while remaining a male is a monumental struggle to survive. This is not what late onset trannsexuals describe at all. A more realistic take is that they are crossdressers whose female persona grows and expands continuously until it becomes the dominant personality at which point the decison is made to jettison the remaining remants of maleness.

I'm not sure I can agree with either premise. Certainly there are TS who just "know" that they are in the wrong body from an early age. But people may reach some awareness that they are different at later stages in life, because of the influence different cultures, family settings, etc. And there may be CDs who adopt a separate persona, and others who see dressing as an extension of themselves. But if a CDer decides to abandon maleness and live entirely as a female (with or without HRT, SRS) that person certainly has become TS even if they didn't initially recognize this part of themselves.

[Rianna Humble]

I don't buy the idea that you can be a transsexual but not know it for decades.

I'm glad for you. Who was selling that idea anyway? The predominant tale around here is similar to mine "I have always known I'm in the wrong body but could not accept it for years". None of us who tell that tale say we didn't know, just that we couldnot accept who we are when we were younger.

[Sammy777]

1) I don't buy the idea that you can be a transsexual but not know it for decades.
2) Transsexuality is a very specific state of mind and every day while remaining a male is a monumental struggle to survive.
3) This is not what late onset trannsexuals describe at all.
4) A more realistic take is that they are crossdressers whose female persona grows and expands continuously until it becomes the dominant personality at which point the decison is made to jettison the remaining remants of maleness.

WOW! :doh: OK lets take it from the top......

1) Do not confuse denial, repression, depression or suppression of a TS's feelings and/or state of mind with "not knowing".

For some of us, myself included, it just takes a bit longer to accept what you have always known you were and finally decide to do something about it. :D

The same can be said for "late onset" gays and lesbians.
Are they any less gay or lesbian because they didn't come out at 5 ? NO!

2) This part you got right.
Why else do you think the TS suicide success rate is est to be 5x higher then national avg,
and the attempt rate is 7x times higher then the avg.

3) AND where did you hear that???
I am a "late onset" TS and yes I have experienced the overwhelming feelings described in #2
and I am sure I am not the only "LO-TS" who has.

4) B :Angry3: L L S H :Angry3: T!
While it is true that some TS' for varying lengths of time and a variety of reasons [as described in #1 above]
May, mayyy self label themselves as CD'ers.
This is the equivalent of putting "perfume on a pig".
It doesn't cure the true underlying condition, it just merely masks it.

Example:
I'm still the man everybody wants and expects me to be,
but I just so happen to have and like womanly things/traits [IE: a CD'er]
is for some, far easier to temporarily accept then having to deal with their true underlying self and finally coming to the acceptance of just who/what they really are and all of the additional consequences that come with being a TS.

Short version -
For some TS' being a "CD'er" is a slower, less painful, more gradual road to accepting/preparing yourself
[and maybe others around you] to who you really are.

Did you ever think of it that way? hmmmm? :battingeyelashes:

[sarahNZ]

I assume you meant census form. Did the form ask for your sex or your gender?

yes sorry "census" ... it clearly stated
"you are ...Male /female"
did not specificly ask for sex or gender. so I gave my honest opinion of what I am.

Sammy believe it or not... that actually made sence. Well put.

[Frédérique]

From what I gather, thou not scientific, but CD's are Men, period. They often express the female side by dressing I know this but plain and simple they are Men. So if they are then why do they transition or do some TS's have this all wrong?

I feel more like I’m drifting out of my assigned lane, or going “off-road,” exploring the largely unexplored countryside (for most males). Yes, I’m a CD/TV, but most definitely a male – I’ve been crossdressing a long time, and I must say that transitioning is not a word that crosses my lips. If anything, my desire to appear female is being gradually undermined as time goes on, but I won’t bore you with the details. BTW, there is no female “side,” OK? You are one and the same…

PS - I used to live near So. Plymouth, MA, in fact I once had a non-girly girlfriend there…:)

[JenniferR771]

Good post number 53/101. I am thinking that almost all TS start out as crossdressers. So this is evidence that TS are like CDs, but have a double dose (at least more intense) of whatever it is that causes it to happen. Further evidence that TS are an extreme form of crossdresser.

Of course, the FtoM guys don't bother to crossdress. They often cut their hair short and bind. Their path to TS is more direct. I am not sure if the final percent is about the same.

At the same time I think there is an "extinction effect". Crossdressers typically progress from panties, to fully dressed, to makeup and wig, to short trips, to long excursions out of the house, perhaps to clubs and airports. This may be the result of getting "used to" wearing a dress so that the thrill is gone. New and more intense stimulation is needed. Or perhaps its just that men naturally seek to go further, faster and bolder than whatever they did last month.

[Rianna Humble]

Jennifer, did you actually consider any of the replies to Sue101? Transsexuals start out as transsexuals, but many of us cannot handle all that goes with it, so pretend to ourselves that we are only cross-dressers. That does not make TS "like CD's but have a double dose of whatever" it just means that for a TS in denial, it is easier to pretend that we are really a man who likes to wear female clothes from time to time.

I'm sorry, but TS is not an extreme form of cross-dresser. TS is all about being trapped in the wrong body and often having to choose between ending the life that was always a lie or correcting nature's error.

I don't know if you identify as CD or TS, although I might make a guess. If you identify as CD, did you cry yourself to sleep every night as a child? I know not every single TS does, but a good many of us did. When you stop dressing as a woman, do you become physically ill? Again there are exceptions, but many of us do. Could you face life if you knew that you would be a man for the rest of your life (even with the opportunity to cross-dress)? I couldn't. I am not TS because I got carried away with CD'ing, I am TS because nature made a mistake when I was born and I have had to live with that mistake every day of my life since.

[Sue101]

Transsexual's stories vary a lot. My point is that the issue of being trapped inside the wrong body is as fundamental a challenge to your sense of being as you can get. There is no way on earth a child could ever keep that under wraps - and they don't. Transsexual children are not in the closet, they battle with their condition every minute of every day so it dominates their lives.

Now if your childhood story is like that but for personal/financial reasons you transitioned much later then yes you always were. But if you had a normal childhood except that you developed into a transgendered crossdresser but had none of the overwhelming trauma then I suggest that the later trannssexuality developed as a progression of transgenderism.

I have chatted to late-onset transsexuals and none of the ones I communicated with had no such childhood experience. So clearly there are a mixture of paths to transsexuality. But if you were crying yourself to sleep every night as a child then you already knew what you were and what you wanted so the concept of not knowing you were a transsexual for decades does not apply.

[Sammy777]

There is no way on earth a child could ever keep that under wraps - and they don't.

I have chatted to late-onset transsexuals and none of the ones I communicated with had no such childhood experience. So clearly there are a mixture of paths to transsexuality. But if you were crying yourself to sleep every night as a child then you already knew what you were and what you wanted so the concept of not knowing you were a transsexual for decades does not apply.


Are seriously saying that it is somehow impossible for a child to keep a secret?

I give you this example:
I guess all those kids out there that grow up having "normal" childhoods
who sometime later in life admit, accept, reveal that they were molested as children are all just making it up then HUH?

Because, as you said, children can't keep secrets right?

So if they can't keep a secret like that,
then by your faulty logic they must have imagined it, or are just making it up.
Right?
Right? SUE


You want to know something else SUE.

Here is a list of people I have "chatted with" in my life:
Straight, Bi and Gay Men
Straight and Lesbian Women
Pregnant Women
Homeless people
People with Cancer, MS, ADD/ADHD/ect
Coma victims, paraplegics, the blind and deaf
People missing various limbs or other important body parts
Alcoholics - Heroin, Coke, Script pain killers, pick your poison Addicts

Do you want to know what ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE have in common?????

No matter how much you "chat with them"
You will NEVER know or truly understand what that person has or is going through.
Unless you happen be one of them yourself.

You trying to tell TS' that you know them better then they know themselves
just because you "chatted" with a few of us is equal to

A tone deaf person preaching to the choir they that they are singing off-key :heehee:


PS: On a personal note.
Yes, It's true,
I just woke up one day and decided to throw not only myself, but all of my family and friends
into utter upheaval, impending criticism from others, fire, brimstone, basically the worst parts of the bible.
so uh.... scariest environment imaginable.
Ya that's all you had to say - scariest environment imaginable, got ya.

And I did all of this, because I felt that wearing panties just wasn't cutting it anymore.

And if you believe that crap, I also have a nice bridge and some beautiful property in Florida I would like to sell you.
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

[2SpeedTranny]

By the way, there's the famous line of "whats the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual?.......answer: two years".


I think that's silly. I've been a crossdresser for 25 years, and I'm still perfectly happy with my anatomy.

[Shananigans]

I think that's silly. I've been a crossdresser for 25 years, and I'm still perfectly happy with my anatomy.

It's a stupid line/stereotype. It doesn't have any scientific backing on it. Maybe it's a joke.

Here's another one:
What’s the difference between a 40 year-old man, and a 40 year-old woman?
A 40 year-old woman dreams of having children, a 40 year-old man dreams of dating them.

Equally as stereotypical and unjust for quite a few people.

[Bethany38]

[QUOTE=Rianna Humble;2449546]Jennifer, did you actually consider any of the replies to Sue101? Transsexuals start out as transsexuals, but many of us cannot handle all that goes with it, so pretend to ourselves that we are only cross-dressers. That does not make TS "like CD's but have a double dose of whatever" it just means that for a TS in denial, it is easier to pretend that we are really a man who likes to wear female clothes from time to time.

I agree with this. I used to think I was just a crossdresser, now I don't know. I think I am leaning toward the ts side of things. I know I am much happier when I am presenting as female. I dread having to go back to male form. However, the more I am in therapy the better I feel. Mainly due to me accepting myself more, and being myself more.