A jealousy question for CDers.

[ReineD]

The Scenario:
You meet a GG at a GLBT nightclub one night when your wife is out of town (you are in femme mode). She is exquisitely dressed, young, and very beautiful, to the point where you wonder if she is a CDer (even though she is 5'4"). Your eyes lock. You then discover she is there with a girlfriend, and you assume she is lesbian. Once inside, they invite you to join them at their table.

Things click rather rapidly, you and this GG befriend on myspace the next day, email addresses are exchanged, and before your wife returns to town, the beautiful GG has invited both you and your wife to dinner, since you have told this GG that you are in a relationship.

You wife comes home and sees a pic of this GG and immediately mistrusts her. But, after some persuasion, your wife agrees to go with you to meet this GG and the friend she was with (it turns out they are not lesbian but were at the club that night just on a lark), at a restaurant in the GG's town, an hour away. The conversation flows between you and the GG while your wife and her friend are pretty much bystanders for the evening. You wife feels there are sparks between you and the GG. You think your wife is being silly.

In the following days, your wife reads this GG's blogs on myspace, and this together with the impressions she got when the four of you went out to dinner, gives your wife the impression this GG is not to be trusted. Your wife lets you know this.

You disagree with your wife, and you feel she is being unduly jealous. At this point it is important to note that you and your wife are also having separate issues, that are causing your wife to feel insecure in your relationship. And last, you feel the jealousy is your wife's problem and not yours, since you feel you have no romantic attraction to this GG. So you continue contact with the GG, through occasional emails mostly, but you don't tell your wife this (unless she purposely asks) because you don't want to upset her. You also arrange to meet this GG for lunch a few times. This doesn't go down very well with your wife. You begin to feel bad because you feel your wife doesn't trust you.

You want to continue seeing this GG. She is European, open minded, and one of the few people you feel you can go out with who is accepting of your femme self (other than your wife, who is 110% supportive, in and out of the bedroom). But, you also don't like to make your wife unhappy, so the emails peter out after awhile. You also stop going to the town where the GG lives.

Two years pass and eventually you don't go on myspace anymore and neither does this GG. You join facebook, you find this GG there, and you send her a friend request (without telling your wife). The GG ignores you for the longest time (is she "punishing" you for having dropped the relationship on myspace?), but out of the blue one day, she accepts the friend request and invites you for lunch.

It takes you two weeks to tell your wife about this. Your code of ethics prevents you from actually meeting the GG without telling your wife given the history, so eventually you do tell her. But in the same breath you say that your wife is welcome to join the two of you for lunch if your wife would be willing to do so in the spirit of becoming this GG's friend, but you do not want your wife to come along if her motive for doing so would be to spy on you and this GG. You also tell your wife you haven't been to the town where this GG lives in the last several years, because you felt odd going there without calling this GG, and you didn't want to upset your wife.

Your wife has an immediate angry reaction. She tells you that she doesn't like this GG, she doesn't want to befriend her, so she will not be joining you and her for lunch. Your wife also says you are free to do as you please, but if you do go, your wife will feel hurt.


The Question:
Do you go ahead and rekindle the relationship with this GG anyway?

[sissystephanie]

My answer would have to be a resounding "NO" if you really love your wife!! To me love always will overrule any other emotions! If it doesn't you don't have a very marriage!! I can see no reason at all to rekindle the relationship with the GG!!

[Phoebe P.]

Not a chance, unless I want my marriage to fail. I haven't had this exact scenario, but I've been contacted via Facebook on at least 3 occasions from a girl from HS, college, and after (former fiance) and it was not fun. I don't need that in my life no matter how exciting it might be.

[Rogina B]

No! And it never should have gone that far if there was a"sparkle in the GGs eyes "that her wife noticed.She had a better sense of it as she wasn't caught up in the moment..

[Vickie_CDTV]

No. Why upset the wife?

(Especially if the wife is 110% supportive, why would one even go there? She should be all you need.)

[christinac]

Not just no, but HELL NO!

[Jocelyn Quivers]

No, No, No, No, and No!!!!!!!

[BRANDYJ]

I always turn things around and ask myself how I'd feel if it was my SO who met a guy and his buddy at a club and the same things happened as in your scenario Reine. It would hurt me if she insisted on meeting this guy for lunch and continue a friendship if I did not like him or trusted him. So the answer I'd break off that friendship without question. My SO is the most important person in my life. I want to make her happy, not hurt. No way would I hurt her this way.

[Avana]

wife? NO.

girlfriend? YES!

[Phoebe P.]

I do love your thought provoking threads though!

[ReineD]

wife? NO.

girlfriend? YES!

Avana, do you mean you would drop the wife, and pursue the relationship with the GG? Sorry, I'm not thinking too clearly right now.

[Maria in heels]

Definitely not !!!! If this were just a platonic relationship, you would know this right away. If it smells like it, looks like it, and most importantly feels like it, then it is it ! The best thing to do is just stay away, unless you are unhappy in the relationship that you are currently in, and just move on to the next,which is not the proper way. It is much easier to rekindle this relationship if things are not going well....because if it doesn't work out, you might still have your SO by your side, even though they are mad because in their eyes, you didn't leave. This is not a nice thing to do...well playing one and if it doesn't work out, you still have the current relationship...not good at all

[Tammynnj]

you have to choose - meet the gg and odds are you loose your wife. by the bye, in the end you don't get the girl either.

[Kathi Lake]

Drop it, drop it, drop it!!

Any time that "sparks fly" in a relationship other than the one you are currently supposed to be in at the moment, is one to be halted immediately. You owe your partner that. No, you are not being silly. No, it is never as innocent as the other party would lead you to believe.

Reine, I sincerely hope that this hypothetical 'friend' isn't you. A woman like you deserves so much more. Any woman that accepts one like us as the whole person we truly are deserves trust, honesty, and the assurance that what you both want is good enough for the both of you.

Kathi

[Natalie Wood]

No. Why would you want to risk hurting your wife. Even though spouses can be unreasonable at times, the fact remains that you do not want to hurt her. She is your wife. There seems to be an element of immaturity here on your part. I do not know any more than what I read. So take that with a grain of salt. But only a young, immature spouse would be asking this. This is not an attack on you. It is just an observation. I believe whole-heartedly that if you are in a happy relationship and there is mutual respect there, you would not even think about pursuing this. Is there any truth to this? Are you typically a selfish person? I admit that I can be at times. You probably hate me right about now. But I am just giving you my perspective from what I read.

[Avana]

Avana, do you mean you would drop the wife, and pursue the relationship with the GG? Sorry, I'm not thinking too clearly right now.

no i mean if i were married i would not pursue the GG relationship because a marriage is a contract, but if it were not a wife and rather a girlfriend, I'd reevaluate that relationship because a jealous SO can hinder personal growth.

[Daintre]

No matter if this Scenario is real or hypothetical, if you love your wife, partner or SO the answer would be obvious to you. Your commitment is to them, not a GG you find interesting. I would hope that the CD in this Scenario would talk it out with his wife.....Ya know, we stress communication here time and time again. If the wife is upset and wishes no involvement I would hope the husband is understanding and drops it. I can see nothing but heartache if this goes ahead.

[Phoebe P.]

Drop it, drop it, drop it!!

Any time that "sparks fly" in a relationship other than the one you are currently supposed to be in at the moment, is one to be halted immediately. You owe your partner that. No, you are not being silly. No, it is never as innocent as the other party would lead you to believe.

Reine, I sincerely hope that this hypothetical 'friend' isn't you. A woman like you deserves so much more. Any woman that accepts one like us as the whole person we truly are deserves trust, honesty, and the assurance that what you both want is good enough for the both of you.

Kathi

Dense me. I just thought it was a hypothetical not a potentially real life situation! I would never consider this so I just thought it was an interesting question. Hopefully you aren't going through this Reine.

[Cynthia Anne]

A 110% excepting wife is a rare fine! I would worship the ground she walked on! A friend like 'that' is only there when they need you!

[cdtroubles]

There is only one answer to your problem. If you love your wife you should absolutely respect her feelings and drop the other woman. If she had a male friend that you were jealous of him and you said so, you would expect her to drop him, especially if you asked you asked her. If she didn't you would be hurt, maybe fatally to your relationship with her.

Grow up and do the right thing.

me

[JulieK1980]

The answer should (IMO) be a resounding NO! I also think the line was crossed a long time ago. The biggest issue I take with this is in the initial "friendship" the husband feels the mistrust is "not his problem" this right here I feel exemplifies what is wrong with the incident. If my wife distrusts me, or a friend I have, it most certainly IS my problem! That means somewhere in the relationship there is a breakdown of some kind. If the husband isn't going to take his wife's feelings seriously, what else would he not take seriously? (Again just my own opinion.)

I see nothing wrong with friends of the opposite sex whether people are married or not, but the priorities NEED to be your spouse first, and friends second.

[ReineD]

no i mean if i were married i would not pursue the GG relationship because a marriage is a contract, but if it were not a wife and rather a girlfriend, I'd reevaluate that relationship because a jealous SO can hinder personal growth.


Well, OK she is not the wife. She is the girl friend. But she is as committed to her SO as if they were married, and although she may be mistaken, she believes he feels the same way. Circumstances outside their control have prevented a marriage or a live-in situation. Also, she's not sure if he does believe in marriage. He has never been married.

Anyway, the girlfriend (previously referred to as the wife, in order to differentiate her from the gorgeous GG), doesn't get why this GG has such an interest in her bf. If the girlfriend (previously referred to as the wife) were in this GG's shoes, she would not keep coming on to the CDing bf and inviting him for lunch. So yes, the girlfriend is mistrustful and most definitely jealous in this situation (she has read many of this GGs blogs and online comments to her bf, plus she met this GG and got all the wrong vibes from her). But, she does not wish to prevent her bf's personal growth. Not by a long shot. She knows that she doesn't have that power, nor does she desire it.

:hugs:

Thanks for all your responses! Also, the girlfriend (previously referred to as the wife), is looking for ways that she can get over her mistrust of this GG so that she can support her bf's desire to have a friendship with her. The girlfriend hates these feelings of jealousy with a passion. But she cannot help them and as I said, they do have unresolved issues in their relationship at the moment that is causing this situation to push all the wrong buttons.

[darla_g]

this just sounds too elaborate to be a hypothetical ... hopefully i am wrong

[NathalieX66]

Nope.
And I've been at plenty of GLBT clubs, and I met plenty of GGs while en femme.
I'm really not a fan of bringing in other people, girl or guy, into the picture if you are comitted into a relationship......unless it's agreed that you and your wife are accepting of open relationships. I couldn't do it. I'm too old fashioned.

[Debglam]

The Question:[/B]
Do you go ahead and rekindle the relationship with this GG anyway?

Absolutely not! Reine, in my world, this would have ended no later than the dinner meetup. There shouldn't have been a "relationship" to rekindle IMHO.

[Phoebe P.]

this just sounds too elaborate to be a hypothetical ... hopefully i am wrong

I am SOOOO naive... Hopefully this is not more than a hypothetical.

[morgan51]

No!I value my s.o. more than that for all we are/ have been thru we are faithful to each other...

[Chastitycd]

I can kinda put myself in this situation, having a wife that 110% accepts and supports me. The answer is an obvious NO! Not only because your wife should come first over any friend, but also because if you trully love your spouse, they should be your best friend first and also, i know mine is!

Chastity

[Denise69]

Regretfully, i have been down this street. It truly is a no brainer. If you love your SO, then respect her wishes. I had an issue with a male friend of my ex, while we were still married. I felt that they spent way to much time together. doing things that Friends normally wouldn't. Ie xmas with his family, family funeral, going to the races for the weekend. When I mentioned my feelings, I was told "he's just a friend, almost a brother". So I let it go, trying to be a supportive spouse. Here I am 3 yrs later, She and my daughter live with him. While I have moved on and found a new, wonderful and supportive SO. It still irks me. More to the point pains me, when I hear about it concerning others. My heart goes out to the GF. I hope the BF pulls his head out of his butt and realizes whats going on.

[Stephenie S]

No, no, and no. Did I mention no?

Stephie

[Miranda09]

NO.....why spoil a good marriage with someone who already accepts one's femme side just to rekindle a relationship with this GG? It seems to me that if the husband can't trust his wife's intuition, they may not have much of a relationship at all, but the wife deserves some respect regarding her feelings.

[Babeba]

I, as well, say that no this situation is not good and should not be continued by the CDer. As long as it continues in this way, there is going to be friction and pain in that primary, most important relationship (and even a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship can be incredibly significant and binding in a way that transcends a mere legal contract).

However, there's always a second side to every story, and I'd like to venture a hypothesis of my own? I have met many people (mostly male), especially those whose minds run more to logic than empathy (one old friend pursuing his Ph.D in the history and philosophy of mathematics comes to mind, as well as an ex of mine with Asperger's) who seem to feel that regardless of how a situation may look on the outside, if they do not feel that the behaviour/event which another worries for or assumes is happening then there is no need for concern or a temprance in their behaviour. Appearances are not important, only their own actions. Without an aptitude for empathy, it is difficult for many people to truly understand where their partner is coming from with a worry such as this.

Perhaps the CDer in question feels that he is not going to transgress in his dealings with the GG, and so therefore any worry on this front is foundless and not going to cause issues in the relationship. His intent is enough to overrule all objections, and he tells himself he feels that the wife is being silly. He badly wants to expand out his circle of close friends; for some people, though one true confidant is enough they need more to thrive. Maybe if he can make just one more friend - then one more after that - soon he'll be able to be himself no matter the situation if enough people understand. Maybe he hasn't thought this through this much, just has emotions to that effect. Whatever the case, he wants it badly enough to make him overlook the situation with his wife which he KNOWS isn't going to make her happy.

One thing which bothers me the most (regardless of how this turns out) is the way he has said that the wife is welcome to join them, but only if she does so in the spirit of friendship to the GG and not to 'spy.' To me, this is turning his own suspicious behaviour around and making things somehow the wife's fault; her fault for not trusting him OR for not seeing what a wonderful person this GG is and immediately wanting to be her friend as well. Some hetero girls just give off bad juju to other hetero girls; and that's something, CDer and feminine or not, that a hetero male just doesn't always see because it's not directed at them. Perhaps if the CD in question retracted that offer, and remade it in the spirit of he has nothing to hide so therefore there are no issues if the wife comes along this would help.

At the very least, acknowledging the fact that the wife is very important and whatever contact which goes on with the GG should be in the open, unhidden, and discussed. I think that in this case (and any where either SO feels threatened by a perceived rival in the romantic, sexual, emotional or confidant departments) the perspective friendship should be treated with similar guidelines to how many open relationships work; each partner should be comfortable with the situation and with boundaries, and should make sure that their primary partner feels respected and loved before continuing on with any secondary relationship. I have always been extremely reluctant to limit my partners' ability to spend time with their friends, and I expect that in return. At the same time, however, the friends a person has SHOULD NOT interfere with that relationship and its success and it sounds like this GG's friendship has really crossed some serious lines. If the CD meets up with the GG at this point, without conceding his wife's concerns should be taken seriously and dealing with it properly then the wife should seriously consider whether the CD is truly being respectful of the clearly wonderful human being she is.

The bottom line is, NO ONE should have to submit to the sort of emotional poopy mess this meeting would engender. That wife is well justified in being upset, and should stand her ground here before this situation makes her feel worse than she does. She is a worthwhile adult, and more caring and open minded than much of the adult population (as is any other GG knowingly involved and engaged 110% in a relationship with a CDer) and I would be worried that in this situation she would be questioning her own self-worth, which is ********. She might be questioning her desirability, perhaps due to age or to her past, or to her accomplishments (which is also ********. I know of at least one woman who married for the first time in her late sixties whose husband is absolutely mad for her, and rightly so! I also know several lovely women who have never finished high school, but whose partners love them all the same for who they are; and one's past is simply that; even if it does touch their life in the present, it's one's character - which we've already established is caring and lovely - which is a truer measure of who they are). Simply put, there is no reason that the wife should simply and quietly let her CD husband make her feel bad.

[RachelOKC]

Sometimes I feel like Henry Fonda in 12 Angry Men when I respond to something like this.

I'm not convinced that "no" is the correct answer.

We've got a bunch of statements that are constructed to elicit a no answer but is there any real reason to actually distrust and be jealous of this "other woman"? Is it based on a feeling or is it based on factual evidence? Has the GF's trust in her CD BF already been compromised in the past? I'm not getting a sense of this other than some general remarks about issues in the relationship.

Perhaps I've missed something, but everything in the scenario seems to be based on jealousy rather than acceptance, impression rather than fact, and distrust rather than trust. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Isn't that what strong relations are founded on?

[JulieK1980]

Sometimes I feel like Henry Fonda in 12 Angry Men when I respond to something like this.

I'm not convinced that "no" is the correct answer.

We've got a bunch of statements that are constructed to elicit a no answer but is there any real reason to actually distrust and be jealous of this "other woman"? Is it based on a feeling or is it based on factual evidence? Has the GF's trust in her CD BF already been compromised in the past? I'm not getting a sense of this other than some general remarks about issues in the relationship.

Perhaps I've missed something, but everything in the scenario seems to be based on jealousy rather than acceptance, impression rather than fact, and distrust rather than trust. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Isn't that what strong relations are founded on?

That was my very first thought on this scenario as well. I pondered it for a bit though, and the conclusion I came to was this. Unless this is a person that suffers from paranoia, (and no, we don't have enough information to judge this well,) then we sort of have to assume something occurred in the relationship (also outside the context of what we know,) to cause the mistrust in the first place. What I keep thinking about are the contents of these "blogs" that were read. My conclusion being that perhaps something written in there set off alarm bells in the GG's mind to cause the mistrust. Or what seems to be inferred was flirtatious behavior in the last outing. Either way, I think it would be more helpful to the relationship, to work through whatever the cause of the mistrust is first, then perhaps rekindle the friendship. Although something tells me the "friendship" is actually more. (Could just be my cynicism though.)

Just my opinion.

[busker]

Here's my thought for whatever it's worth. The Cder is a MALE, who is attracted to a woman who fancies him dressed --that is she accepts that he is a Cd er and that suits him just fine. His first relationship is a live-apart one, and unwed status, so he feels that he can do a little dance every now and then, and nobody is going to scream too loudly. Since he is NOT married to his supportive SO, and now he's found a new one, using a lame excuse of "personal growth" just rings like it should--phoney. We all have friends but the way in which this is developing sounds like there is a no-brainer here for the first supportive GG--toss the bum out. this isn't going to go anywhere but south. I'm thinking here as a MALE, not a rationalizing CDer.

[giuseppina]

The Scenario:
You meet a GG at a GLBT nightclub one night when your wife is out of town (you are in femme mode). She is exquisitely dressed, young, and very beautiful, to the point where you wonder if she is a CDer (even though she is 5'4"). Your eyes lock. You then discover she is there with a girlfriend, and you assume she is lesbian. Once inside, they invite you to join them at their table. ...

I would politely decline their invitation. The rest is too hot to handle for me.

That said, I've had the misfortune to observe a marriage breakup in which one party appeared very narcissistic. It wasn't pretty. :sad:

[Pythos]

No way. I just could not do that. I am with an SO that loves me, and respects me, there is no way I would threaten that with a fling. Sadly I know of plenty of guys that have done or are doing that right now.

[laura.lapinski]

No freaking way do you go. If you love your wife, you don't make her feel insecure when it is preventable. That's what you do for each other. It's why its called marriage. If you love each other, you would not do that to each other. There is jealousy, and then there is jealousy that is justified. So many times a spouce will call the other one insecure if they get jealous, but they don't want to accept that what they may be doing is causing justified jealousy. Now, my answer is based on the assumtion that this is not an open arrangement, but more of a traditional marriage of trust and monogamy. Any two people are free to create their own groundrules.

[Leslie Langford]

Well, as the others have said here, the answer really is a "no-brainer".

But even if I ever were in that type of situation, not only would my wife be very adamant about me not being drawn into such a relationship, she would smack me upside the head for being naive enough to even believe that another woman putting that kind of move on me is only out for friendship and has no other ulterior motives.

Her theory is that by their very nature, men are as thick as bricks when it comes to that type of thing, whereas women are much more cunning, devious, wily, and manipulative in pursuing matters of sex and seduction. In other words, our brains reside in our penises most of the time, and we can't be trusted to make good judgement calls if left to our own devices whenever a member of the opposite sex expresses (or professes to express) a decided interest in us, and we see a potential opportunity to "score".

From what I've seen considering the way many members of my sex often behave, I can't really fault my wife's logic when it comes to such matters...

[seanmuscle]

Reine how many times have I told you? You need a REAL man. CDs have an obsession with femininity and want women they can bond with. They want women that see them ONLY as one of the gals. He knows that even when he is dressed, you still see him as your husband and a man. This of course will make him feel less feminine.

There are tons of men out there who do not carry such baggage or complexities and we want to treat you right. Your husband will fall in love with men someday when he looks for his next high to make him feel more feminine. Reine I feel sorry for you.... Straight women and CDs just dont work together

[ReineD]

Thanks everyone, so very much for all your responses! :hugs:

To Sean ... I appreciate your comments as well, but you do seem to lump CDers in the same category, and I believe you are mistaken to do so. Also, I never did say I was talking about myself.

[donnalee]

Absolutely not! I would sooner take a stroll through a minefield,

[BRANDYJ]

Reine how many times have I told you? You need a REAL man. CDs have an obsession with femininity and want women they can bond with. They want women that see them ONLY as one of the gals. He knows that even when he is dressed, you still see him as your husband and a man. This of course will make him feel less feminine.

There are tons of men out there who do not carry such baggage or complexities and we want to treat you right. Your husband will fall in love with men someday when he looks for his next high to make him feel more feminine. Reine I feel sorry for you.... Straight women and CDs just dont work together

I don't buy into this very bad generalization about all crossdressers! To think a crossdresser will someday fall in love with a man almost makes me vomit! Who's definition of what a REAL MAN is are you using anyway? Knowing your sexual interests in both CD's and GG's, I guess TO YOU, a real man is one that is into crossdressers and women, therefore are bisexual. That sure does not fit what most GG's would call a real man!
BTW, when my SO sees me dressed or NOT dressed, she sees me as her man and I am sure as hell glad she does. No, it does not make me feel less feminine. I feel masculine and feminine as the mood and manner of dress dictates. seanmuscle, I feel sorry for you due to your very wrong assumption that straight women and CD's do not work together.
As Reine said, you lump all CD'ers in the same category and you are so off base it's not even to be considered.

[joannemarie barker]

there's no way I could knowingly do something to hurt someone I love.I am a born worrier and I would be hurting myself even considering that

[Megan70]

I was recently on facebook as a member for 1 day and that was enough to send sparks flying. I was stupid enough to just out of curiosity look up and request a friendship from a girl i had an intense one way office enfatuation for almost 30 years before.My wife knew and is still hurt by it even though nothing ever happened. We used to go out to lunch frequently at work and rumors were flying but she just thought of us as friends and I was secretly in love with her. So I look her up on Facebook and offer a casual hello, not knowing that I am "friend attached" to my wifes account. She sees it and blows her top because it still caused deep emotional scars with her after all these years..I immediately took it down and want nothing to do with Facebook, Twitter or Myspace. To me they are more trouble and time consuming than its worth. I'll stick wit plain e-mail and this forum with PMs as my only outside contact sources.
Lesson learned. 12 hour Facebook member:straightface:.

[josee]

In the circumstances you presented;

If you care about your relationship with your wife, you stay away from this GG whatever she means to you. She is a source of angst for your significant other and she already has enough of those. Ya know what I mean?

You have to put your marriage first and give it the best chance for survival. Otherwise you don't have a marriage.

[t-girlxsophie]

Straight women and CDs just dont work together
was going to try and word this answer to that in flowery language,but nope cant do it,that is BOL**CKS

I would never hurt my Wife in that way,My marriage will always come before any friendship.I love her so much and to threaten that would be unforgiveable

[Charlena]

No, my spouse and I have been there for each other for 32 years. If she was outta town I would pack my guitar and head over to some friends house for some picking and toking. And I know there is no one out there more compatible with me than Laura. Yes I am very lucky.

[Sally24]

Definitely a NO. I wouldn't have done any of the above after the original meeting. Being friends is one thing but when there is chemistry and you aren't single, just asking for trouble!

[Abbey Lane]

Wow I am surprised you are even still married. Even after the 1st go around I would of been in divorce court.

NO .. Get out. Keep your wife.

[TGMarla]

No. You made an agreement with your wife when you decided to marry. Monogamy. Hanging out with other women is just not right. This other woman may be terrific, but there are a lot of terrific women in the world. You didn't marry any of them. Direct your interests back inward to your own relationship. The results may pleasantly surprise you.

[kimdl93]

it sounds like a really incredibly bad idea to maintain any sort of relationship with this GG over the objections of the wife.

[Chastitycd]

Reine how many times have I told you? You need a REAL man. CDs have an obsession with femininity and want women they can bond with. They want women that see them ONLY as one of the gals. He knows that even when he is dressed, you still see him as your husband and a man. This of course will make him feel less feminine.

There are tons of men out there who do not carry such baggage or complexities and we want to treat you right. Your husband will fall in love with men someday when he looks for his next high to make him feel more feminine. Reine I feel sorry for you.... Straight women and CDs just dont work together

You know Sean, you really need to stop talking for all of us as your thoughts could not be more wrong. Im married to a very supportive and accepting wife and have been for some time now and we have one of the best relationships that ive ever seen.

Chastity

[Tina B.]

Renee, I would never let it go that far to begin with, after the first meet, my wife is not comfortable, it's done for both of us, for forty years we have operated as a single social unit, and that never has exceptions, especially when it comes to the opposite sex. Sean, thank you for letting me know I need to find a boyfriend, in 67 years, 60 of which I've been crossdressing, I never thought I wanted one, but if I'm suppose to, oh well.
It's nice to know there is someone out there that knows so much about so many, they have never meet, thanks for straighting me out on this important part of being a transgendered formally straight male.
Tina B.

[BRANDYJ]

My situation. I have a very loving, understanding SO that knows, accepts and even likes my fem side. She trusts me 100%. But I have never given her any reason not to. I have been as open and honest with her as humanly possible. She knows I have some GG friends and has no issue with it. She knows I have a female roommate and has no issue with it. But being REAL MAN (whatever that is), I consider myself honorable and will not lie or cheat on her. It not only would hurt her, but it would hurt me as much or more. Being honorable is very important to me.
When I had to move back in October, I asked her if it would bother her if I had a female roommate since I do not care for men in a living situation since my opinion on how so many treat women and feel they are second rate citizens angers me and goes against my feelings toward the stronger sex...women. I had to be sure she was really OK with it. I kept questioning her about it to be sure she really had no jealous feelings or thoughts that I would take it further then just a good roommate situation. I was very fortunate to find a woman that wanted a male roommate as she feels there would be to much drama with a female roommate. I never asked her why, but she has her own reasons for wanting a male roommate, so it works out for the both of us. I must tell you, she is gorgeous, sexy and very feminine. I admit that thoughts have crossed my male mind. But that is normal for most men that see a beautiful woman. We are cordial, respectful and friendly toward each other and I have never allowed myself to become closer friends with her that would temp my own lusty thoughts. She knows I have an SO out of state that I am deeply in love with, so she knows her boundaries even if the male in me forgot mine. For me to have that much trust from my SO is priceless and I will never do anything to ruin it or lower my sense of being honorable. I do not let my roommate in on the fact that I am a crossdresser or any other intimate details about me. You might say we are friends but keep a respectful distance when it comes to personal things. I know that even IF she threw herself at me, (not likely to happen, she's 20 years younger then me), I could not and will not break the bond of trust, respect and love my SO has for me.
If at any time my SO felt uncomfortable about my roommate or my roommate's motives for having me living in her house, I'd move in a heartbeat before hurting the one I love. nothing or no one is more important then the lady I love, admire, respect and care for. For me to ignore my SO's feelings and do anything that hurts her in the slightest way would be a selfish act that I could not live with myself over. If my sweetheart did not like any of my friends, male or female, then my friendship with that person would have to end for the sake of her happiness. I would not expect her to simply ignore it and live with it if it bothered her in the least.

[Leslie Langford]

Interestingly enough, in today's "Ask Ellie" column, a very similar issue was addressed, except that this time it was a case of a married woman developing a deepening platonic friendship with a gay man, and it was the husband who was getting uncomfortable with this.

http://ellieadvice.com/column.php

The way I read Ellie's response, she wasn't necessarily advocating that the woman stop this relationship with her new-found friend. The answer was more along the lines of strengthening the one between the husband and the wife herself (and still have him feel like No.1), while at the same time having him participate in that relationship with the "other man" to some extent to allay his suspicions of any possible hanky-panky. And as in the OP's case, there did not seem to be any intent/possibility of this developing into a sexual relationship.

Hmmm...is this perhaps another case of a double standard where GG's are given a bit more latitude than GM's?

[Julogden]

If I were in a reasonably happy, functioning relationship, no, not a chance.

I know first-hand how terrible it feels to have a spouse who isn't faithful, one of the worst things I've ever experienced, and I won't do that to someone that I love, even if we're having problems. If the old relationship was a really bad one, I'd possibly end it and pursue the new one, but I wouldn't pursue a new relationship while in another one.

Carol

[BRANDYJ]

Interestingly enough, in today's "Ask Ellie" column, a very similar issue was addressed, except that this time it was a case of a married woman developing a deepening platonic friendship with a gay man, and it was the husband who was getting uncomfortable with this.

http://ellieadvice.com/column.php

Hmmm...is this perhaps another case of a double standard where GG's are given a bit more latitude than GM's?


I read it Leslie. I think the husband has every reason to worry. Come on...3-4 hour lunches after gym? I don't believe the wife when she told her husband the guy is gay. He was married and had kids. So he may be bisexual and now wants more then friendship with this woman who seems to put this friendship before her relationship with her husband. Ellie's response was perhaps not what she also suspects just as I do. But she did not want to fuel the fire of hurt and mistrust the husband is already feeling.
No, I don't think this is a double standard at all. Play with fire and you are gonna get burned...male or female.

The way I read Ellie's response, she wasn't necessarily advocating that the woman stop this relationship with her new-found friend. The answer was more along the lines of strengthening the one between the husband and the wife herself (and still have him feel like No.1), while at the same time having him participate in that relationship with the "other man" to some extent to allay his suspicions of any possible hanky-panky. And as in the OP's case, there did not seem to be any intent/possibility of this developing into a sexual relationship.

[BRANDYJ]

If I were in a reasonably happy, functioning relationship, no, not a chance.

I know first-hand how terrible it feels to have a spouse who isn't faithful, one of the worst things I've ever experienced, and I won't do that to someone that I love, even if we're having problems. If the old relationship was a really bad one, I'd possibly end it and pursue the new one, but I wouldn't pursue a new relationship while in another one.

Carol

My SO has repeated many times how a man will pursue a new relationship before ending a sure thing at home regardless of how bad it might be. Sadly, I think this is true of many, if not most men. In fact there was a time in my life I was ashamedly guilty of doing just that but did not even realize it. I've learned my lesson from the pain of that era in my past.

I think we can begin what we think is just a platonic friendship, have that friendship attraction allow us top become "to close" then begin being flirtatious and get sucked in without realizing what we are doing...both male and female.

[Adelaide]

Why put at risk a beautiful relationship with someone that accepts you "110%" being a CD, even in bed? You have something special....why risk losing it all? I certainly wished my SO agreed with my CDing.....even a little bit!
A.

[VictoriaP]

Reine, I would never have pursued the 'relationship' to begin with. I can only assume that there was some need that this GG was fulfilling or thought capable of fulfilling. In answer to your question, NO!

[TGMarla]

Your husband will fall in love with men someday when he looks for his next high to make him feel more feminine. .... Straight women and CDs just dont work together

What a load of horse hockey! CDs do not just arbitrarily fall in love with other men just so they can feel more feminine. Most (not all) CDs have little or no interest in other men. Furthermore, my wife is straight. Way straight. And we get along just fine, thank you. So perhaps you should think a little before you make any more ridiculous blanket statements like that one.

[BRANDYJ]

What a load of horse hockey! CDs do not just arbitrarily fall in love with other men just so they can feel more feminine. Most (not all) CDs have little or no interest in other men. Furthermore, my wife is straight. Way straight. And we get along just fine, thank you. So perhaps you should think a little before you make any more ridiculous blanket statements like that one.

Marla, this is an example of the mindset of most bisexual men that have no clue as to what a TG person is or isn't. They think all CD's are into men and are gay or bi simply because we like to dress and even act like women. Over the years I've been hit on by more morons looking for a fling then I can count. Most of them were cheating on a wife and are bisexual looking for anyone and anything to fill their perverse sexual needs. It made me think of all the GG's that have to put up with explicit messages on a message system like Yahoo or MSN messenger where these idiots prowl looking for anything good looking in a skirt to send their crotch shots to and insult with sexual gutter talk. Is it any wonder why I don't like the average male when they are tactless, clueless, insulting and rude in trying to interest a GG's and even CD's into a one night stand?

[JulieC]

Do you go ahead and rekindle the relationship with this GG anyway?


I understand this is precisely the sort of situation (or very like) that people frequently find themselves in. To me, it's sheer idiocy in action.

So, the wife doesn't trust him. Well DUH no wonder! He's withholding information from her about his contacts with this woman. Further, he's attempted to maintain contact even though his wife doesn't like her and doesn't trust her. Bald faced stupidity.

It comes to the question; whose team are you on? You and your wife's team? Your team alone? Your team with this other GG? Any but the first and you're in tatoo-stupid-on-my-forehead territory. If you're not comfortable with the idea of being only on the team with your wife, then you've got serious issues in your relationship that need to be addressed, and the thought of having a platonic GG friend is just absurd in that context.

I withhold nothing from my wife. Anything that crosses my mind of any significance she is told about. We talk every day, across many subjects. It's not that she expects and demands that I tell her everything. It's that I want to, loving her so much that I want to be absolutely open to her. Our trust is complete. She never has to question, and I never have to question her.

I have GG friends. Even one whom is an ex-fiance. My wife is utterly comfortable with this. If she wasn't, I wouldn't. Now, if she was an ogre and refused me having any friends, that would be a very different and very serious issue. Similarly, she has GM friends, one of whom she is very, very attracted to. She's even had the occasional fantasy about him. But, I feel no qualms about it because I know she would never cheat on me, and she tells me everything too...including the fantasies. Am I threatened by this? Nope. In fact, it's rather fun.

Short answer; hell no. Any further contact with that GG is out of the question.

I've read the first page of responses on this thread and want to add one other thing; whether my SO was my girlfriend or wife, my answer would be the same. If I was willing to risk my relationship with my girlfriend to see this other girl, I should be mature enough to break up with my girlfriend first. To me, this is all such an easy call.

The boyfriend in the middle of this pickle is in the middle by his own actions. It's time for him to decide one way or another, and stick with it. If he truly loves his girlfriend, and thinks of her as a wife anyways, there's not really any wiggle room on this.


And one additional note; I understand crossdressing was involved in this to some degree, but I don't see that it's anything but happenstance. This is just run of the mill relationship stuff, and the CDing is just tangential to it.

[Violetgray]

I can be coldly objective when called for, just a warning..

To mistrust someone from a photograph rings of insecurity. It means she sees her as a threat, with no info other than her looks. This is going to taint all her-related thoughts from then on. Not only won't you believe she's trustworthy, but you won't want to.

"You are free to do as you please, but if you do you'll hurt me" is a contradiction. She already know that he doesn't want to hurt her, and she's making him aware of the consequences to influence his decision.

"You're free to come along as long as you're not doing it to spy on me" is the dumbest thing he could have possibly said. First, if she was going to spy he would'nt even know it, because spying is by definition a non-censenting act. Second, how exactly does he determine what her intentions are? What difference does it make if the action is the same?

Still, my answer is NO. Even though she's being insecure and selfish. He's not with her because she's perfect, but because overall she's an awesome woman whose pros far outweights her cons.

...though I'll add there might also be a bit of resentment on his part for causing him to lose an excepting friend.


And oh yeah, Seanmuscle, how is it that you are 80 posts deep into this board and STILL you can come up with ignorant, stereotypical crap like that?

[seanmuscle]

NO. Go look at the crossdressers dating men thread. It is huge. Many CDs love a MAN to sweep her off her feet and ride into the sunset. As I repeated over 1000X. Crossdressers take time to come to terms with these feelings because it is not something they ever expected. As the female personal develops it will grow and grow and grow till she is a complete woman.

[Chastitycd]

NO. Go look at the crossdressers dating men thread. It is huge. Many CDs love a MAN to sweep her off her feet and ride into the sunset. As I repeated over 1000X. Crossdressers take time to come to terms with these feelings because it is not something they ever expected. As the female personal develops it will grow and grow and grow till she is a complete woman.

First to my knowledge this website has no "crossdressers dating men" section. And SOME CD's do like men, but you labeled all CD'ers as leaving their women for men in your first reply and even said many CD's love a man to sweep them off their feet when in fact the number of gay Crossdressers are very few. Again, please get your facts straight and watch how you word your thoughts before you go throwing this "all CD'ers are gay and horrible husbands" blanket over all of us....

Chastity

[kristinacd55]

Thanks everyone, so very much for all your responses! :hugs:

To Sean ... I appreciate your comments as well, but you do seem to lump CDers in the same category, and I believe you are mistaken to do so. Also, I never did say I was talking about myself.

OK Reine.....so are you the wife or the girlfriend in this? :) Just kidding

[BRANDYJ]

NO. Go look at the crossdressers dating men thread. It is huge. Many CDs love a MAN to sweep her off her feet and ride into the sunset. As I repeated over 1000X. Crossdressers take time to come to terms with these feelings because it is not something they ever expected. As the female personal develops it will grow and grow and grow till she is a complete woman.

You can say it a million times and you are as wrong as the first time you said it. You are clueless to what they majority of us CD's want and need. I'm just glad most of our loving supportive GG's can laugh at statements like this. I'm only saddened that the GG's that came here to learn and support their CD husband may believe you. That is until the smarter GG's educate her to the facts.

You make foolish assumptions. So can I do the same thing? Your screen name says it all....seanmuscle. Sounds like a guy trying to build his ego and make up for his short comings as a REAL MAN. Screen names speak volumes. You are a bi guy that likes sex with both women and CD's. Ok, we get that.
By the sound of your screen name, you think you are the answer for both GG's and CD's. GAG!
You insinuate that you are a REAL MAN in reference to your response to one fine lady (ReineD), and that none of us CD's are REAL MEN. How laughable can you be!
Please do us a favor and go back to that thread about CD's dating men and maybe you'll get lucky for the minority that are into it. Better yet, go to Craig's list where your kind is a dime a dozen. I find your posts very disrespectful to not only most CD's, but to GG's as well.

Of course you ignore the post from a 60 plus CD'er that is wondering when he is supposed to fall for men. Add me to the list of those mature CD'ers that after 62 years of desiring only women is also wondering when I'm supposed to come to terms with these feelings of wanting a man. Is this some line you use on unsuspecting young CD's that you want to use in bed to fill your macho ego needs? Get real!

I apologize to the moderators for my display of anger over this person's ignorant posts. Especially ReineD that I have the utmost respect for. Back on topic...again, sorry for my rant.

[seanmuscle]

Nope. You are wrong again. I said THREAD. Do you know what that means? There are 2 prominent threads talking about dating men and gay CDs in this section. Even the GG Reine was surprised all the fantasies and responses.

[BRANDYJ]

OK Reine.....so are you the wife or the girlfriend in this? :) Just kidding

I admit, Reine has us wondering and worrying if this is about her relationship. I sure hope not! And trust she cleared this up and is simply making a fictional couple to provoke thought and sincere meaningful opinions.

[Tamara Croft]

NO. Go look at the crossdressers dating men thread. It is huge. Many CDs love a MAN to sweep her off her feet and ride into the sunset.

One thread is not as big as this forum :rolleyes: and the majority of posts in it are pure fantasy.... as for the rest of your comments in this thread, you really do spout some :BS: don't you :rolleyes:

So, are you a 'real man' for Reine then? even though this was a hyperthetical question... which you chose to ignore, instead, just insult Reines partner by accusing him of not being a real man because he's a CD... I mean, that's just rude...

[BRANDYJ]

Nope. You are wrong again. I said THREAD. Do you know what that means? There are 2 prominent threads talking about dating men and gay CDs in this section. Even the GG Reine was surprised all the fantasies and responses.

It's hard, but I vow to ignore ignorance and refuse to debate with someone less equipped.

[Tamara Croft]

I admit, Reine has us wondering and worrying if this is about her relationship. I sure hope not! And trust she cleared this up and is simply making a fictional couple to provoke thought and sincere meaningful opinions.Read post #41 :) Reine clearly stated she was not talking about herself :)

[Jenny Beth]

I have way too much to loose to get involved with someone else however innocently when I've had a fabulous relationship for the past 30 years.

[Kaz]

Of course it all depends on the relationship you have with your wife and what your joint and independent intentions are. It is a little like the "prisoner's deilemma" paradox that is often taught in ethics classes.

My ethics?... it would be a straight no. My wife is way too more important. Would I see the other individually is a different question. I am naturally curious and probably would... but with some very strict personal rules of engagement. There is only one SO I want in my life... and I do not want to lose her unless she wants to lose me..

[carhill2mn]

The short answer is NO! There is little to gain and much to lose!

[Christine1971]

I would have to say I would put my wifes feelings first because I wouldn't want to hurt her or give her cause to think there was more to it than just friendship, I've been there and it was me that was saying they want more and I was right.

[charlie]

Wow, to have an accepting wife! I would never make her intentionally upset just to see someone that I find interesting. Jealously can be a formidable enemy. Why bring discord to your house if you don't have to?

[VanessaVW]

I'm wondering if this question is from experience..... anyway, NO WAY!!!! My SO has very specific rules in our relationship anyway, so I probably wouldn't even be in this bar to begin with.

[Gaby2]

Golly gosh, that's a really difficult story. I can't offer any advice, just that I hope everything turns out for the best.

There seems to be universal condemnation of the "interfering" GG and the bf's fickleness.
But what if the liason described in the OP developes into a full and trusting relationship?
It might do. Should it not be allowed the chance?
It might be just a case of tough luck for the present SO/gf.
Is that bad?

I suppose I'll say a prayer for everybody involved. Gaby

[Shananigans]

The title said CDs, but I just couldn't help myself. I feel like everyone has seen this situation or been in it.

If I were the husband, then no.

If my husband/boyfriend did this to me though (I'm guessing you are speaking from experience), I'd find myself a very attractive male friend to have lunch with or go to dinner with and see how much he likes it. But, I'm a vindictive little b*tch, truth be told.

[James Kaon]

Drop it does sound like the most logical and less hurtful option. Guess u just need to recognise what you have right now and what you may lose... Yea sounds fun with the GG, and if the SO is not for you then you should be honest about it. I dont subscribe to staying with someone just because they accept u and love u. Love is 2 way thing and if u dont feel it, then thats that. But make no mistake, you are flirting with something else other than your current relationship - even if it all comes across as just a friendship with this GG, it does sound like you are enjoying the attention. IMHO... Personally, I would look at what u have, what you want and what could be... If I was in love with someone and same situation came up for me, I would drop it. Even if i didnt want to.

[ReineD]

I do want to set the record straight on a few points:




To mistrust someone from a photograph rings of insecurity. It means she sees her as a threat, with no info other than her looks. This is going to taint all her-related thoughts from then on.

No, the mistrust comes from a lot more than having seen the GG's pic. The girlfriend (previously referred to as the wife) has met this GG, has read countless of her blogs, and has also read the comments addressed specifically to the boyfriend. It is a case of having received bad juju (as Babeba so aptly put it) from this particular GG. The mistrust does not extend to other women that the boyfriend knows.

There are also real, unresolved issues in the relationship that are giving rise to the depth of the girlfriends's insecurities, but which I am not free to divulge.



I know first-hand how terrible it feels to have a spouse who isn't faithful, one of the worst things I've ever experienced,



So, the wife doesn't trust him.

There is no question of physical unfaithfulness. The girlfriend knows that the boyfriend would not have sex with this GG without breaking it off with the girlfriend first.

[kimdl93]

So in this relationship, knowing that there are unresolved issues, the boyfriend (whether he is a CD or not) really would be ill advised to add to his gf's insecurities by maintaining any kind of relationship with the other woman.

[LIKETODRESS2]

THis might be hard to understand . WHAT THE ### NO NO NON

[Julogden]

Regardless of the modifications and qualifications since the original posting, the bottom line, for me, would be to honor my GF's/wife's wishes and stay away from the potential new friend.

Carol

[Pink Person]

Some relationships are doomed to failure for lots of reasons. The situation described in the original post is too mysterious to me, but the prospects don't seem good either way. The boyfriend seems kind of selfish and insensitive. The girlfriend seems kind of selfish and insecure. What is the best outcome for both of them? I don't have the slightest idea. Perhaps they should bring a neutral third party with them to the lunch to monitor the situation from all sides. Is there someone they both trust who could join them? In any case, no one should have lunch with Seanmuscle. He sounds like a homewrecker in every direction (just kidding).

[BLUE ORCHID]

Never Never Ever let the little head do the think for the big head!!!

Orchid

[Amy Lynn3]

Standing on the outside looking in and with limited information this does not sound like a healthy relationship to begin with. To start, if their is an unhealthy relationship the wishes/desires/feelings and request of the SO will not be put first. My guess would be the gf has done something to destroy the love the bf at one time had for her. At this point he has been hurt enough and her feelings are not a priority to him.

P.S. The gf must figure out what she did to make her bf feel like he is an option, rather than a priority and fix it. If she can't, I am afraid she will continue to be treated like an option herself and not a priority.

[Babeba]

I admit, Reine has us wondering and worrying if this is about her relationship. I sure hope not! And trust she cleared this up and is simply making a fictional couple to provoke thought and sincere meaningful opinions.

Quite often some of us other, less experienced GGs will PM one of the GG mods - Reine, Di, Sandra, etc. to ask them to raise questions on our behalf which we would like to know the answers to but not necessarily want to be seen as the source of. There are a lot of GGs at different levels of acceptance who might want advice without having it feel too personal, or like others might judge us (or our partners); it's really nice of these ladies to perform this service for us.

I'm not sure that you GMs of all ilks are aware of this, but each and every GG who reaches out to the FAB forum has personal contact with one of the mods or another of the dedicated gals who volunteer their time for this, so that we've got a sympathetic and friendly ear to pour our anxieties into and be able to confront some of our worst fears with the people who have gone through it all already. I am continually overawed at what these ladies do to help the other GGs who they come into contact with, and just how much support - in so many ways - gets passed around. Perhaps it's simply that this other side of the board is so large that it's hard to feel that small sense of cohesiveness, but I really feel like it's the most supportive part of this whole forum - for my needs, at least. So consider this thread part of the tip of that iceberg.

[Leslie Langford]

"I'm not sure that you GMs of all ilks are aware of this, but each and every GG who reaches out to the FAB forum has personal contact with one of the mods or another of the dedicated gals who volunteer their time for this, so that we've got a sympathetic and friendly ear to pour our anxieties into and be able to confront some of our worst fears with the people who have gone through it all already. I am continually overawed at what these ladies do to help the other GGs who they come into contact with, and just how much support - in so many ways - gets passed around. Perhaps it's simply that this other side of the board is so large that it's hard to feel that small sense of cohesiveness, but I really feel like it's the most supportive part of this whole forum - for my needs, at least. So consider this thread part of the tip of that iceberg."

That's a very interesting tidbit of information, Babeba, and likely more insightful than even you realize in getting to the root of what fundamentally distinguishes the average CD from a GG, even if he deludes himself into believing that being a CD gives him some sort of inside track into the way women think and the way their brains operate. Transsexuals - maybe; CD's - not so much. We are still males deep down inside despite our love of heels, pantyhose, bras, dresses, skirts and all things feminine etc., and the well-known Mars/Venus truisms apply to us as well.

I doubt very much that many genetic males would undertake the same type of intimate, soul-baring, supportive, and protective aapproach to establishing and nurturing relationships with their peers that you have described as existing between the GG SO's here and the female mods.

[sometimes_miss]

Knowing what I do now, that even a so-called CD tolerant wife can quickly turn antagonistic, file for divorce and blackmail one for everything she can, it would really depend on the wife's attitude toward my crossdressing. If she were one of those 'don't do it around me or talk to me about it' women, then yes, I'd continue to see the other GG and just tell the wife that I really need someone in my life who can really like me and accept me for who I am. Since my last 'CD friendly' female friend left my life many years ago (no, she wasn't a potential partner, she was gay and left the area when her girlfriend got her green card and came to the U.S.), I really haven't had any friends that know I crossdress, and feel my social life is quite, well, gone entirely because I don't know anyone I feel I can trust with that information. A girlfriend, a wife is important; but for most crossdressing men, well, we need female friends as well, because when we lose our SO, the lack of having anyone else for emotional support is just devastating.
Edit:
I also decided to add this; Yes, jealousy is the problem of the one who is jealous. Either they know their partner, or they don't; and if their partner has been faithful to them, and they are supportive of their partner, then they should have no reason to be jealous. OTOH, if they are not supportive of their partner, then THEY are in the wrong, and THEY are the ones who need counseling.
I keep reading over and over about what horrible creatures we CD'ers are, how horrible it was that we didn't tell our SO about our crossdressing 'up front'. Well, women keep secrets from men as well, and feel justified that we should still love and accept them. So, why should we bend over backwards and kiss our SO's butts so they might tolerate what we wear? What BS. But with rare instance, we ARE the same wonderful person they fell in love with, and just as women feel the right to change their moods and retain the right to 'lean on' their male partner whenever they want, we should have those same rights. Women insist that their man be strong, not complain, take care of and protect them, and we are to accept that, and never ask for it in return? Baloney. Give what you get. You want the right to take on every role, profession, and want to be free to join any private institution men are able to? Then you have to give up your own to us as well. Fair is fair.

[victoriamwilliams1]

My answer is NO! If your wife detects something I would agree with her.

[docrobbysherry]

But, this thread PROVES you've NO IDEA what it's like being married to a GG!:heehee:

I WAS! She became jealous if I looked SIDEWAYS at another female!:Angry3:

Now, you're saying I'm going to ask her to go WITH ME to meet another GG?:eek:

And, I thot MY fantasies were way out there!:devil:

[TxKimberly]

Well, my most candid thought is "What, are you nuts?!"

"And last, you feel the jealousy is your wife's problem and not yours" - This is self contradicting. In any marriage even approaching "healthy" if it is a problem for your wife, it IS by definition a problem for you.
Why would someone continue to push down that road when the wife repeatedly made it clear that it made her intensely uncomfortable?
You can argue all day long abut whether the wife's feelings and attitude were reasonable or not, but that's entirely beside the point. It hurt her and thats what matters.

[Debglam]

Well, my most candid thought is "What, are you nuts?!"

"And last, you feel the jealousy is your wife's problem and not yours" - This is self contradicting. In any marriage even approaching "healthy" if it is a problem for your wife, it IS by definition a problem for you.
Why would someone continue to push down that road when the wife repeatedly made it clear that it made her intensely uncomfortable?
You can argue all day long abut whether the wife's feelings and attitude were reasonable or not, but that's entirely beside the point. It hurt her and thats what matters.

:yt:

A lot has been said on this thread but THIS sums it up. Thanks Kim!

[seanmuscle]

No. You still do not understand. you guys never made an actual section for it because you fear it will expose the truth. So basically all the responses are shoved in that one thread which you hope will just die. Even you admit the fantasies... A straight CD would not have such fantasies. Your husband would never tell you such things because some men feel shameful.

[ReineD]

If Sean wants to believe in his own fantasies, just let him. Everyone else here knows better. We don't need to feed the trolls and take the thread off topic.

[AmandaM]

When someone keeps looking outside their relationship for emotional, sexual, or whatever fulfillment, there's a problem.

A big problem if you ask me.

[samiam45]

I have to go with no as well.

[seanmuscle]

If Sean wants to believe in his own fantasies, just let him. Everyone else here knows better. We don't need to feed the trolls and take the thread off topic.

No I am not a troll. I just happen to have a different opinion. I am a heterosexual male that loves the feminine woman. No matter what I said to you in the past, my concern for your situation is legit Reine. You are one of the very few gg who does not let your emotions get in the way of truth. Anyways my answer is yes it is cheating and yes the you should leave him and find a traditional male. When a traditional man is treated like a king by his woman he will treat her like a queen. A CD however is interested in being one of the girls so they have extra social needs that a normal man does not. Its the same as guys having guy friends except in reverse because CDs primarily only relate to women and seek female companionship. This makes the gg wife insecure and rightfully so. Because she should be his focus, not the other woman,

[Jessica86]

I read this and couldn't believe it. Let that go! Even if my wife was an unaccepting wife, I would not leave her because I love her. I know she is there for me. Your wife is accepting, so the least you could do is budge a bit on your end too.

[Pythos]

seanmuscle...my God, you are absolutely 1000 steps backwards for men in general. You are a grand example of the kind of guy I WOULD NOT want to be friends with. "Treated like a King by HIS woman." His? Really? Possessive are we?

Traditional male? And what the hell is that?

I don't speak for all CDs, but in my case, when I am full enfem I am MORE ATTRACTED to women, and have NO attraction to men.

I just like women...just like you. I want to attract an open minded and beautiful both inside and out women that will SWEEP ME OFF MY FEET!!! LOL

Though I have picked the GG up off her feet, and she was stunned. I had fun when I did it cause I was looking like my more favored look...long black and blue half dress, crazy spiked hair, and very well done makeup.

Stop making assumptions based of ONE fantasy thread. You may also notice that those in that thread make multiple responses.

[SarahMarie42]

Male lesbians ftw.

Btw, people define themselves, they don't allow others to define them

[Charlena]

No I am not a troll. I just happen to have a different opinion. I am a heterosexual male that loves the feminine woman. No matter what I said to you in the past, my concern for your situation is legit Reine. You are one of the very few gg who does not let your emotions get in the way of truth. Anyways my answer is yes it is cheating and yes the you should leave him and find a traditional male. When a traditional man is treated like a king by his woman he will treat her like a queen. A CD however is interested in being one of the girls so they have extra social needs that a normal man does not. Its the same as guys having guy friends except in reverse because CDs primarily only relate to women and seek female companionship. This makes the gg wife insecure and rightfully so. Because she should be his focus, not the other woman,

never say never, never say always. In my life I have learned that people that spout off their opinion as fact are usually full of #hit. "you should leave him and find a traditional male." WTF? who are you to give advice like that? "When a traditional man is treated like a king by his (ownership implied?) woman he will treat her like a queen" What a crock that is... in my opinion of course.
My advice to you Mr. muscle is to go stand in front of a full length mirror, Flex your traditional muscles and practice your Dr. Phil routine.

[Di]

The way I see it....the husband is looking at it as ....I feel like one of the girls.....chatting with girlfriends.
BUT the wife had this gut feeling..... intuition ....not to be dismissed and let it be rationlized away. I would be upset if my partner dismissed it as jealousy because bottom line it is not.

[bobbie c]

to sean muscle?....let me throw my hat in the ring also,a 59 yo ,wondering when my life will turn and i will suddenly find myself attracted to men...your not only uninformed,but frankly, a perfect example of a shallow,backwards thinking,type that gives ...yes "reaL MEN" a bad reputation. i.m also curious as to why you are here? enlighten us will you?sean muscle.....???yep says it all......on a better note.....being new here, i am always amazed at the insight and genuine interest that is shown ....it's wonderful....oh and my answer...no...so is always first,kim said it best

[JulieC]

If Sean wants to believe in his own fantasies, just let him. Everyone else here knows better. We don't need to feed the trolls and take the thread off topic.

Sean was added to my ignore list a couple of days ago. Staying there pemanently so far as I'm concerned.


When someone keeps looking outside their relationship for emotional, sexual, or whatever fulfillment, there's a problem.

I disagree with this. Allow me to explain...(and not saying you hold to ANY of this)

Among many people, there's a belief that your spouse is the end-all-be-all person for you. Anything you should ever have need of, they should be able to provide in one form or another. If they can't, then so be it, it is the life you chose and accept it for what it is. Happiness is somehow found by finding everything in your spouse, and what is missing is unimportant.

I'm NOT suggesting infidelity is a pathway to happiness. Rather...

We exist in society. Our sole human contact is not our spouse. We have friends, family, and coworkers. We derive many pleasures from all of these people. It isn't "cheating" to share laughter with your sister, your friend from high school, a co-worker on a project. Further, it isn't cheating to actively seek fulfillment of various interests and desires outside of your marriage, assuming your spouse is in the know and approving. Your wife might not like fishing, yet you fish every other weekend. Your wife might not like tinkering with cars, yet you've got a couple of project cars. Your wife might rather stay at home than share an evening with you and your best bud from high school. All of these activities can bring fulfillment to a person, without directly involving one's spouse.

My wife is involved in several activities/hobbies. I'm involved in several as well. Most of these do not share an overlap. With all of these, we make time for the other to be able to pursue those interests.

I think a pathway to disaster is presuming that a spouse should be the end-all-be-all for you, and if (s)he doesn't feel the same there's a serious problem.

[LisaM]

I want to add a resounding no as well. More importantly, my answer would be the same if it were a cd/gg couple or any type of couple. If one SO is uncomfortable with the others friends then I would think he/she would do everything to avoid hurting the SO who feels uncomfortable.

[ReineD]

My wife is involved in several activities/hobbies. I'm involved in several as well. Most of these do not share an overlap. With all of these, we make time for the other to be able to pursue those interests.

I think a pathway to disaster is presuming that a spouse should be the end-all-be-all for you, and if (s)he doesn't feel the same there's a serious problem.

I agree with you entirely there! :) It's crucial for both parties to have solid inner cores, and not place the sole responsibility for their inner states of happiness on their partners. One of my favorite pieces describing love and commitment is by Kahlil Gibran



Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.


Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.

[Tamara Croft]

No I am not a troll.

Actually, you are and the majority of people that are posting in this thread will agree.


I just happen to have a different opinion.

You have an opinion of a cave man :rolleyes:


I am a heterosexual male that loves the feminine woman.

And? you could be a fresh water gay dolphin and still love feminine women... what exactly is your point?


No matter what I said to you in the past, my concern for your situation is legit Reine. You are one of the very few gg who does not let your emotions get in the way of truth.

Why are you assuming (again), that Reine is posting about herself? you assume wrong (again) and it's getting old real fast. You actually come across as rather stalkerish :rolleyes:


Anyways my answer is yes it is cheating and yes the you should leave him and find a traditional male.

LOL... traditional male? wow, wtf century do you live in? just what is a traditional male? how does one differ from one that likes to dress up?


When a traditional man is treated like a king by his woman he will treat her like a queen.

Aha! so this is what a traditional male is? a woman has to treat him like a king in order to be treated the same, so what you're saying is then, if a traditional male wasn't treated like a king, he'd treat his woman like crap? traditional twat then no?


A CD however is interested in being one of the girls so they have extra social needs that a normal man does not.

Oh wow, you really have no clue do you? is this why you joined the board? so now you're saying CD's cannot be normal men? wow... I have a few choice words right that I'm thinking, but I'd have to ban myself for saying them...


Its the same as guys having guy friends except in reverse because CDs primarily only relate to women and seek female companionship.

Ok then... :rolleyes:


This makes the gg wife insecure and rightfully so. Because she should be his focus, not the other woman,

You know what bothers me about this? You joined this board to 'supposedly' get advice about your 'friend'... but here you are now giving us advice about CD's, when you knew nothing... I mean, why join a board to ask us advice if you bloody know everything? seriously... why are you here? apart from being annoying as hell...

And I agree (this might come as a shock, please put coffee/tea cups down)... with what Pythos said :eek: :thumbsup:

[JulieK1980]

Recently in several threads I saw complete confusion among (some) of the Crossdressers as to why GG's were upset with being stereotyped. I witnessed honest confusion as to why they were offended.

Perhaps some of the Crossdressers here would do well to read Sean's posts, and hopefully make the connection that it's the same thing they themselves were doing. An overly obnoxious generalization that puts all of us Crossdressers into one little narrow definition. Maybe then, there would be a little more empathy for the GG's here that were offended.

To Sean, as a Crossdresser that DOES in fact like men as well as women, I have to say, you are SO far off it's not even funny. It's okay though, I understand you are just projecting. I have a sneaking suspicion your being here has less to do with your friend, and much more to do with YOU. I hope someday you have the courage to step forward out of the closet and admit who you really are.

[BRANDYJ]

Originally Posted by seanmuscle
No I am not a troll. I just happen to have a different opinion. I am a heterosexual male that loves the feminine woman. No matter what I said to you in the past, my concern for your situation is legit Reine. You are one of the very few gg who does not let your emotions get in the way of truth. Anyways my answer is yes it is cheating and yes the you should leave him and find a] traditional male. When a traditional man is treated like a king by his woman he will treat her like a queen. A CD however is interested in being one of the girls so they have extra social needs that a normal man What the hell is a NORMAL male??? does not. Its the same as guys having guy friends except in reverse because CDs primarily only relate to women and seek female companionship. This makes the gg wife insecure and rightfully so. Because she should be his focus, not the other woman,

Yeah, a heterosexual man that loves the feminine woman. One that came here supposedly ONLY to ask questions for his small sized friend???? Yeah, I'm buyin' it. Right after I complete the transaction on my new ocean front condo in Iowa!
What we most likely have is a not so REAL MAN that happens to be bisexual and is here trolling for a CD that finally realized his place in a REAL MAN"S arms. (YUKE! PUKE and laugh my head off all in the space of a moment!)
See, a real man would admit he is bisexual and is looking for a hookup or fling (s) with sexy crossdressed males that finally accepted their place in desiring men... (LMAO) or maybe even some misguided GG that has been hurt by a CD and may fall for the BS flung by this troll. I mean he is the great SEANMUSCLE (the name still says it all) here to pick up the pieces... a legend in his own mind that knows all, and can cure all ills brought on by us poor misguided crossdressers that long to be a Queen for a King like seanmuscle (sic)
I wonder how he finds the time to grace us with his wisdom. I mean it takes him away from the porn sites and personal section of Craig's list.

Like Tamara said, I too agree with what pythos said. Good job pythos!


You know what bothers me about this? You joined this board to 'supposedly' get advice about your 'friend'... but here you are now giving us advice about CD's, when you knew nothing... I mean, why join a board to ask us advice if you bloody know everything? seriously... why are you here? apart from being annoying as hell... Tamara, I would bet my last pair of panties that I'm on the mark above as to why he is here. lol Oh, and if you ban yourself, I guess you have to ban me too.

[Jenny Beth]

@ seanmuscle.....please define "real or traditional man". I am retired from the fire service, worked in helicopter logging and deep sea fishing and currently work in construction. Since it is often said clothes don't make the man what makes you better than me?

Apologies to Reine for going off topic.

[Shananigans]

A few things...

1) It's not about really a crossdresser needing extra feminine companionship or not. The POINT is that the wife found her husband's relationship with this woman sketchy and asked him to respectfully keep a distance. Instead, he went behind her back. The going behind the back thing is the REAL injustice. All people enjoy companionship of the opposite sex. CDs aren't these special little creatures that have some weird free access card that you have to bow down to because they need feminine companionship. You're not special. (Shannon's tough love). Everyone enjoys diverse company and having friends of the opposite sex is important. But, the point is that if your spouse feels a relationship with a complete stranger is weird and wants you to effectively let the friendship go separate ways, you should do so out of respect for your wife. If you choose NOT to do as your wife wishes, you should tell her so and be ready to "fight the big fight" for whatever you believe in. But, if you choose to ignore your wife and go behind her back, then you are just spineless and not to be trusted. The real issue at hand has very little to do with CDing, when you think about it.

This next statement is off the track of the OP's posting but there seemed to be undertones of homoerotic tendencies and I don't know where they came from....so, I thought I would post this...
2. I saw in one post by Sean an allusion towards homosexual fantasies of CDs. (Maybe not his own because his next post contradicts that). I must say that I think most people have entertained homoerotic fantasies. I have met very few people that were straight as an arrow. But, I don't really think it has a lot to do with CDing. If you're gay, you're gay. If you're bi, you're bi. You don't need a reason to legitimize your sexuality lol. "I'm gay because I'm a CD." No...lol...you're just gay. And, it's okay. Let your gay flag fly. If you are a MTF CD and you have relationships with women and have sexually satisfying relationships with them, but then you go home and masturbate to gay CD porn...you're probably bicurious. You may not be bisexual. It's a lot different when it's a real person and not the person in your fantasies or on the computer. But, just go on and call yourself bicurious and let the day be done. In other words, don't blame your sexuality on the CDing because it makes non-CDing homosexuals pretty angry. For example, if FTM CDs were saying that they were bisexual or homosexual (I say homosexual meaning they are identifying as a male and are dating males...did I blow your mind?...Read carefully) because they were CDing, I would be very irritated. Why? Because I think my sexual orientation (bisexual) has nothing to do with my gender orientation. But, when you start associating being homosexual or bi with the gender orientation or CDing, you are lumping a HUGE group of people in that lump with you. And, I'm just not one of them (a TG/CD). This is why some gay clubs get pretty hostile about TS and CDs and don't want to be associated with them. (A different can of worms for a different day). So, just be careful when you say things like X causes Y and so therefore it is. Side note rant ended.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm so sorry, Reine! Your once promising thread is GONE!!!!!!!!

[ReineD]

Oh that's OK Doc, sometimes threads develop a life of their own. I don't get bent out of shape about it. But I do hope that Sean will get tired of getting told off and he will stop spouting his views. :p

[2SpeedTranny]

You wife comes home and sees a pic of this GG and immediately mistrusts her.

Clue #1: Wife is nuts. And extremely jealous.



No. You made an agreement with your wife when you decided to marry. Monogamy. Hanging out with other women is just not right.

This... is where I'm going to open up a whole new world for likely most of you.

You see, I have a wonderful girlfriend, going back years. I've never had such a wonderful woman in my life... she loves me all sweaty, wrenching cars, building stuff... and loves me when I'm late for a date because I take so long to put on makeup. She's a doll. Here's the kicker:

She's married.

To someone else.

But it gets better. Her husband is my friend. We hang out, we go hiking, we build things. You see, my girlfriend and her husband have what you would call a "polyamorous" or "open" relationship. He has girlfriends too. And when I wish to date a new girl, I say "hey, I met this gal, gonna see how she works out."

I wanted to point this out because not all marriages are stuck in the monogamy paradigm. There's always a factor in monogamy -- jealousy. In non-monogamous relationships, that's not a problem. Openness and honesty replace the need for ownership and jealousy.

So... in this type of relationship, the answer to the OP is very different. In that case, the wife says, "Honey, you go have fun with your friend... I'll go hang with my boyfriend/girlfriend," or, "Honey, go have fun... just set a date so I can meet her before you do anything, okay? Muah! P.S. I'll be naked when you get home!"

Each couple sets their ground rules, but I obviously take exception to the notion that monogamy is a given.






We exist in society. Our sole human contact is not our spouse. We have friends, family, and coworkers. We derive many pleasures from all of these people. It isn't "cheating" to share laughter with your sister, your friend from high school, a co-worker on a project. Further, it isn't cheating to actively seek fulfillment of various interests and desires outside of your marriage, assuming your spouse is in the know and approving.

The one and only sensible response in this thread.

Yes, indeed, people have interests that their spouses do not share. It makes me sad when friends of mine have gotten so sucked in to monogamous relationships that they're not even allowed to hang out with their friends, sharing interests that their wives do not care for. To me, this smacks of possessiveness, and a lack of love for a partner.

I can give one stellar example of marital caring: A couple I know... the husband likes the bondage scene, his wife does not. The wife simply lets him have a mistress he can see, and tie up, once a week. It makes them both happy.

Apologies for this post running so long... the gist is simple: jealousy is stupid. It does not solidify relationships; it destroys them. It's a flawed human emotion. And thus far, only the philosophers have gotten past it.

[BRANDYJ]

To each their own 2speedTrannny. But your point of view is not very popular. What angers me is when I see someone call a GG nuts or other offending assumptions simply because they don't match your opinion. Then you say she is extremely jealous. Nonsense! She is smart to see dangerous relationship issues ahead. The red flags were clearly pointed out by the OP. Personally, I see jealousy as a very healthy human emotion for those of us that can and do truly love someone. No, I don't mean extreme jealousy, but simple jealousy is one way we react to keeping our relationships alive and well. The wife is not necessarily jealous, let alone extremely jealous. She wants to keep her relationship in tact and has concerns that her husband might be entering into a friendship that could put a wedge between them and ultimately end the relationship. That's not jealousy...that's being aware and smart!

Unlike you, most of us want a sexually exclusive relationship with someone that we bond with and love. In most relationships it's an agreed desire and unmentioned boundary.
As for jealousy being a flawed human emotion, in my opinion you are very wrong. For those of us that are in love and cherish something exclusive (like sex and/or intimacy) It can be very healthy if kept in tact and perhaps even liven that intimacy.
Your choice to most of us (again, my opinion and observation), is more likely to end with someone getting hurt then to end up being a life-long relationship. I hardly call it a relationship.
In most poly amorous so called "relationships" I've seen, it's sadly the wife giving in to the sexual wants and needs of the husband simply to hold on to the shred of marriage she has with a macho womanizing, selfish guy she unfortunately fell in love with. Yes, in some cases it's the husband that gives in to his wife's sexual cravings and wander lust that he can't fill. He unwillingly becomes a cuckold to his wife. Some things like intimacy, are sacred to the vast majority of us. So in the OP's original post, the wife is anything but stupid, she is aware and very wise to see a problem. If the husband is not selfish, insensitive, and really cares for his wife, her feelings and her happiness, he would back out before someone gets hurt. That includes himself.
Your calling the wife stupid is a very harsh, insensitive assumption on your part.

[ReineD]

You wife comes home and sees a pic of this GG and immediately mistrusts her.

Clue #1: Wife is nuts. And extremely jealous.


You didn't read all of my posts. :) There are other issues in the relationship and they aren't imagined. I'm just not free to fill in the blanks. The wife/girlfriend doesn't feel this way about other women her boyfriend knows.

As to having an open relationship, I can picture myself in one if I loved someone casually enough. Or if my sexual desire for someone wasn't sourced from the way I feel about them emotionally. Or if I was in a marriage of convenience. Or even if at some deep level I was keeping my options open. Or, as you say, if I wasn't that into sex and my husband was, or vice versa. Or perhaps for dozens of other reasons. So yes, open relationships can work very well, as long as both partners are on the same page. Difficulties arise if they each want a different level of intimacy, connectedness, exclusivity, or whatever you want to call it from one another.

But, there are relationships where the love/emotional/physical/intellectual connection is so strong that partners can't imagine themselves with anyone else. You know ... like when you've filled yourself at table enough (no matter what kind of meal), there isn't any room for even one more bite? I guess it's hard to imagine for people who've never felt that way.

[2SpeedTranny]

She is smart to see dangerous relationship issues ahead. The red flags were clearly pointed out by the OP. Personally, I see jealousy as a very healthy human emotion for those of us that can and do truly love someone. No, I don't mean extreme jealousy, but simple jealousy is one way we react to keeping our relationships alive and well. The wife is not necessarily jealous, let alone extremely jealous. She wants to keep her relationship in tact and has concerns that her husband might be entering into a friendship that could put a wedge between them and ultimately end the relationship. That's not jealousy...that's being aware and smart!


If a relationship must be jealously guarded with suspicion and mistrust, then you don't have a relationship. You have a connection based on fear... and fear leads to the dark side. ;)

Fear is the most powerful of human emotions. It's crippling. It's why Skywalker became Vader. It's why dictators shoot protesters. It's why members here hide in the closet. It's fear of losing something you have, whether it's power, possessions, or people... and that's what jealousy is.

If you think it's healthy to suspect your partner of infidelity, or be suspected, at every turn, then I don't know what to say. I can't imagine living that way, on either side of that equation.

I'm with an SO because I want to be, not because she hacks my email or demands to know where I'm going and who with. And yes, I'll stand by my statement -- that sort of thing is flat nuts. (I'll stick by the "nuts" part too, because that's my opinion. I'm entitled to it; you don't have to agree. And if you get angry at other peoples' opinions, you must be a very angry man.) I won't live that way.

If you want to, fine. I have no interest in stopping you.

I only posted on this thread because I had a different perspective to share. It's MY perspective. I don't believe in trying to hold too tightly to possessions or people. I liken it to holding water in my hand... I can only do it with an upturned and open hand. If I try to grip it tightly, it all runs out.

[ReineD]

2SpeedTranny, no one is saying that it is healthy or even desirable to be with partner who is so mistrustful, he or she always suspects the worst, spies, and demands to know about every contact with another human being. That would be more than excruciatingly stifling.

This isn't the situation in this thread though, and you will see this if you read carefully my several posts describing it.

And the question about having sexually open relationships is an entirely different matter. Some people are OK with this, and no one is saying they shouldn't, as long as they are both on the same page. But again, an openness with having sex with 3rd parties isn't for everyone.

And yes, you are entitled to your opinions. :hugs:

[joannemarie barker]

the woman in question here hasn't even said she suspects him of infidelity.I think it comes down tho the fact that she's been open with her feelings and he hasn't shown a shred of respect for those feelings.like I said before in this thread,I would be stressed and hurt thinking I'd upset my partner like that :/

[2SpeedTranny]

2SpeedTranny, no one is saying that it is healthy or even desirable to be with partner who is so mistrustful, he or she always suspects the worst, spies, and demands to know about every contact with another human being. That would be more than excruciatingly stifling.

This isn't the situation in this thread though, and you will see this if you read carefully my several posts describing it.


I know... I wasn't directly responding to your posts, but to some of the responses. :)

[Lorileah]

*joining in late so bear with me if I get too redundant*

um.....nope. Don't fan this flame.

I agree that you should not do this, just for the sake of harmonics. Don't rock the boat.

But there was something in the OP that really made this less complicated. I have come to realize that someone viewing the situation from the outside (In this case) the wife can get a totally different perspective. Whereas the TG in this case thinks they have found a "friend" and pal, the woman sees other signs. And trust me those signs are often missed by the person whom the signs are meant for. I have noticed this myself. When someone does something (like playing with their hair, playing coy, dangling a shoe) the person they are aiming at (OK I'll say it the hetero often clueless male) doesn't see it. Even when they are told by the outside person they deny it. Then weeks or months later it becomes blatantly apparent. In the meantime the blithely clueless target is now knee deep in swamp water. This may not be cut and dried as all that because we know the GG has her alert set on high and may be misreading as much as the target, but she saw something. Set her "spidey senses" tingling. I would not ignore this. At least I would beware of the fact that the GG has some worries. And it is easier to avoid the potential than it is to try and repair the damage.

I don't like the jealousy game. I personally try to not be jealous of whoever I am with a the time. They are their own person as am I. I have friends of both sexes and both sexual preferences. I can and do maintain these relationships without getting any deeper than just friendship. So I know it can happen and this whole scenario could be over dramatized. Could be, but still there had to be something there the GG saw. I say cool it, if it is to be, it will be. True friends don't "punish you" and true friends don't mind taking it slow and they understand that there may be issues that have to be addressed. If this GG really just wants to be friends they will work slowly to gain the GG's trust and friendship as well as the TG's. There are people out there who get a thrill driving a wedge in a relationship and when they accomplish that they are gone. That is another worry I have with the OP. It's a game, and the TG and GG are just pawns.

Long answer to a short question but nope, no way, uh uh, wouldn't do it, wouldn't be prudent.

(PS I hope this was all hypothetical and just a bad dream :))

[Ameli]

It isn't what you need, but I hope its at least cold comfort to see how many people have responded with such passion. The scenario is interesting but I highly doubt that it would evoked such emotion if someone else had wrote the story. Reine's words have so often touched my heart, so I join with the others who wish her the best.

Ameli

[TxKimberly]

I'm finding it interesting that Sean is getting attacked for stating a point of view in contradiction to the majority here. Are we going to be one of those forums where everyone dog piles on someone that doesn't agree with our point of view? This would be a boring place if everyone saw everything exactly the same way wouldn't it?

[Fractured]

I think it's not that sean's is a contradictory opinion that is getting the attacks. The posts sean is making seem to be targeted at being inflammitory - very aggressive and confrontational. It's as if the point of the posts is to get attacked and others are obliging. I suspect that if the logic behind the posts were better phrased to evoke a discussion rather than an assualt, there would be fewer negative remarks directed at them and their originator.

[audreyinalbany]

I agree that it is some small measure of how significant Reine is to the members here that her question has elicited so many responses. Love,
Audrey