Are Bi Partners better

[kimdl93]

Many CDs and their SOs have difficulty in reconciling CDing with the rest of their relationship. But from what I've experienced in my own life and observed here, it seems that CDs who are bi or bicurious make a pretty good match with partners who are similarly inclined.

What do you all think?

[Avana]

that's been my personal experience. though it's also been my experience that there can be a lot of drama associated with experimentation outside of the relationship as a result of that.

[Sherry-Stephanie]

Got my vote!!!!....as in a previous thread I have going now...

[Shananigans]

It works well, as long as you both are content sexually in your own relationship. I think a lot of people confuse bisexual with promiscuous. Just because I am bi does not mean that I NEED to be in a relationship with both sexes at once to be sexually content. It just means that I would be equally happy in bed with a man as I would a woman. I think that most people are in serious relationships when they say, "Holy crap! I'm bi!" So, they feel like the must experiment. But, so what? You're bi. You know you're bi. If the relationship that you are in is a good one, why screw it up with experimentation? Sex is sex at the end of the day and sex with the person that you really love is the best sex of all. So, yes, two bisexual people work well ask long as you both REALIZE that you are bi and REALIZE that just because you are bi does not mean that you have to screw up the good relationship that you have.

My SO and I tend to be pretty flexible in the bedroom as far as gender roles, so I guess we have our cake and eat it too. ;)

[BRANDYJ]

I would think you may be right Kim. But with that said, it does not mean that either partner has to act on the urges to be sexual with anyone outside of the relationship. They still can be faithful to each other. Of course it could mean setting a few more boundaries then those relationships were neither one is bisexual. My guess is in such a relationship, there might be less cheating since opening up about our own sexuality and attractions leaves little else to hide from each other. I wonder how many such relationships are open on some level to allow each other to explore their sexuality with others. My SO is bisexual and since we have been together she has not once even mentioned wanting to be with another woman. We are 100% faithful to each other. Oddly, she says I am bisexual since I have been sexual with other CD's in my past and still have fantasies about it. However in my way of thinking to be bisexual means you are attracted to the opposite sex. I'm not. I have zero interest in men. My experiences had been with other CD's. I guess it's an attraction to all that's feminine even if it's another CD or otherwise TG. I know she would let me explore with another CD if I wanted to. She even jokes about taking pictures since the idea turns her on. It's mostly a shared fantasy and we do talk and joke about it at times. The point is, we are both open and honest with each other about our needs, desires and likes and dislikes. I guess as long as neither of us does anything behind the others back it's a possibility for either of us with boundaries respected and met.

Shananigans, you were posting at the same time I was. Seems we are both on the same page with this topic. I agree with you 100% Very good post!

[Diane Elizabeth]

Being bi with a non-bi spouse can be a bit of a problem. I know because that is where I am at sexully right now. But, I do believe that being bi has made me a better sex partner. My cding has not entered into any sexual play for me, yet.

[Shananigans]

Shananigans, you were posting at the same time I was. Seems we are both on the same page with this topic. I agree with you 100% Very good post!

It's because we are cool. Internet high-five for agreeing with each other!

[BRANDYJ]

It's because we are cool. Internet high-five for agreeing with each other!

Yes we are cool! I have always enjoyed your posts and love your thoughtful well written response to most topics. Even when we did not see eye to eye on an issue, (one of my threads way back)I have always respected and enjoyed your honest response. What can I say...I like you! Not to mention that you are cute sexy and purdy! lol

[Avana]

Just because I am bi does not mean that I NEED to be in a relationship with both sexes at once to be sexually content.

tell that to my gf lol

*bangs head against wall*

[Vickie_CDTV]

Based on a few dressing friends I have known over the years who are in successful relationships, I'd say the GG does not necessarily have to be bi. One thing that they say helps if the girlfriend is into 'kink' and is just more sexually curious and is also more understanding of others' differences in terms of sexuality.

[joannemarie barker]

only if they don't go crying back to their gf screaming "I'm straight"

[HairyBethCD]

Interesting thought. I'm bi, my SO isn't. She's said she's happy for me to see other men as it's not a threat to her - it's not something she can offer. This gives me an outlet for my CDing too. That said, whilst I have had experiences outside the marriage (with her consent), it's not something I've done that much.

[darla_g]

I don't think that I agree with the original premise of the thread. This might be the case for some, but I wouldn't say its true for the majority especially if you look at how people have described their relationships here on this web site. (and this web site probably represents the largest population of CDs that I can think of)

This is probably as erroneous as stating that all CDs are gay or all secretly wish to become women. Generalizations don't help anyone.

[Cynthia Anne]

I can agree to an extent! As long as your both on the same page, and jealousy stays out of the picture! Just remember what's fair for the goose is likewise fair for the gander!

[Allana W]

Although I am not bi, I was married to a bisexual ballet dancer for nine years. Sadly she passed away from cancer in 1986. S, as I will call her, was living with another woman when I first met her in about 1973, I believe it was. I was dancing at that time as well and met her in the studio. I was no the cause of their breakup, as their relationship was already on the rocks, both of them being strong and assertive women, what they used to call 'lipstick lesbians.' The positive of the relationship was that S found my female side to be attractive. On the negative side, S was never very 'faithful' during our nine years together, but I understood that to be her nature. Another aspect of our relationship was that S was 15 years older than I was -- if she had lived, I would today be married to a 71 year old woman! To be honest, the ballet dancer side of S was more of a challenge than the bisexuality. To a true ballet dancer all the world is composed of dancing and everything else, including husbands, lovers, family etc. seems to comes second place.

[Kate Simmons]

I think people are people, foibles are foilbes and imperfections are imperfections. Everyone is an individual subject to individual quirks be they Bi, Gay or anything else.:)

[Shananigans]

I don't think that I agree with the original premise of the thread. This might be the case for some, but I wouldn't say its true for the majority especially if you look at how people have described their relationships here on this web site. (and this web site probably represents the largest population of CDs that I can think of)

This is probably as erroneous as stating that all CDs are gay or all secretly wish to become women. Generalizations don't help anyone.

I don't think the OP was saying this was the RULE. Obviously there are a lot of straight couples on this thread that are awesome. I think the key is that your SO should be at least a little open-minded.


Yes we are cool! I have always enjoyed your posts and love your thoughtful well written response to most topics. Even when we did not see eye to eye on an issue, (one of my threads way back)I have always respected and enjoyed your honest response. What can I say...I like you! Not to mention that you are cute sexy and purdy! lol

All I have to say is ditto to that! And, you are very sweet! :)


tell that to my gf lol

*bangs head against wall*

Does she want to be with both sexes, or does she think that You want/need to be with both sexes? Nosey Shannon is nosey.

[LilSissyStevie]

It doesn't necessarily work out that way. My ex before I met my wife was bi but she only liked masculine men and feminine women. She didn't like feminine men AT ALL. I was overcompensating on the butch side at the time so I met her requirement. I would never even consider mentioning CDing to her. On the other hand, she was addicted to gay (male) porn and wanted to roleplay that sometimes.:heehee: My wife is not bi (neither am I) but, like me, is more gender fluid. She doesn't care if I'm a girl as long as I keep my junk.

Now that I think about it, none of it makes any sense. But, that's life.

[christinac]

I haven't really dated or been in a real serious relationship since my wife was killed in an auto accident several years ago. I never seriously crossdressed around her when she was alive, but I'm fairly sure (not positive but fairly sure) that she would have been accepting because she was a very open minded woman and very supportive of the gay, lesbian, and transgendered community.
I had my first same sex/gay relationship for a few months this past summer and my boy friend was very supportive and encouraging of my crossdressing. He wanted me to go out with him en femme, but I wasn't quite ready to take that big of a step yet.
We split up because his job transferred him up north.

[kimdl93]

Now that I think about it, none of it makes any sense. But, that's life.

Truer words were never spoken...eh, typed.

[sterling12]

Since there seems to be a lot of expertise around here about this subject, I have a question? Lately, I have noticed that I often get up in The Morning and don a red sock and a blue sock. Does this mean I am becoming Bi-Soxual?

Should I bring this up in Therapy? ....if I ever start! And, is it possible that I can find a like-minded Bi-Soxual Partner?

We haven't heard from Ms. Hutton in a few weeks, so I thought I would be presumptious enough to "fill-in" during her absense.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[joannemarie barker]

lmao that's a serious worry :D

[Pink Person]

Some people are bi-sexual, and some people are buy-sexual (if they want sex then they have to buy it). Some people are queer heterosexuals. Some people are kinky homosexuals. Many people are boring sexual zombies lurching toward each other with dead urges. I imagine sexual compatibility is the most important factor in a good sexual relationship. I will have to ask my imaginary lover the next time he/she comes around.

P.S. Exceptions may apply. Don't mind the self-mocking humor if you are a rare true lovebird whose feathers have been ruffled.

P.P.S. It's all good, I suppose.

[VictoriaNylons]

Sad story to read, but you don't call what is so close to your soul and heart "junk." Please. Even if you don't understand it.

[VictoriaNylons]

My comment is that there is nothing more destructive in the gender-identity arena than categorical labels. A 1960s TV would likely be a 2000s CD, but now many are bi and previously most were thought to be heterosexual. I think it is more useful to get with what you like, and whether you want or need a partner, and what for....be careful letting your guard down as you'd be careful letting your religious beliefs and political attitudes show. They are all likely to be contradictory to some degree, for, are we not all imperfect? A relationship that works is a blessing.

[VictoriaNylons]

Serious ballet dancing, like many arts, when taken to the professional limit, involves a very serious degree of narcissism. You may believe you are in a relationship with someone who doesn't even see you as a human being. A 71 year old dancer is likely to have a number of psychological problems...from personal and professional experience, and leave it at that.

[ReineD]

Many CDs and their SOs have difficulty in reconciling CDing with the rest of their relationship. But from what I've experienced in my own life and observed here, it seems that CDs who are bi or bicurious make a pretty good match with partners who are similarly inclined.

I don't think it makes any difference. I've never had an attraction to natal women, but I am gender flexible with my SO. :)

I did make a point of asking the same question to two separate bi women. They each said they liked their men to be men, and their women to be women. But, they'd never been with anyone who is TG. Maybe if they fell in love with a TG, they'd discover an ability to be gender flexible as well.

My point is, what we think we like and what we end up liking can change drastically depending on who we fall in love with. :)

[darla_g]

I don't think the OP was saying this was the RULE. Obviously there are a lot of straight couples on this thread that are awesome. I think the key is that your SO should be at least a little open-minded.

Yes i agree with you said here and that is exactly why I stated my disagreement originally. Bi people (either one or both) may be more accepting by nature. I don't know if we can say that is the rule either.

But the important point is that being open-minded is the most important factor for relationship success with a CD that I have consistently heard. I think there are many women that think they are open-minded because that's the way they want to come off, but in the end they're not and they cannot accept something way out of the norm. CDing frequently falls in that category and you hear things like what would my friends think?

But to turn the tables a bit, I think CDs tend to be pretty self-centered about what we do and sometimes dare I say bordering on narcissistic. It's all about us and how we are feeling. We rarely can put ourselves in the shoes of our partner and really attempt to understand how they feel. and then we wonder why our partner doesn't understand us?

[ReineD]

But to turn the tables a bit, I think CDs tend to be pretty self-centered about what we do and sometimes dare I say bordering on narcissistic. We rarely can put ourselves in the shoes of our partner and really attempt to understand how they feel. and then we wonder why our partner doesn't understand us?

Great point! It's amazing what a little compassion and understanding can accomplish in the bedroom ... not to mention a little romance. But, it's hard to convince people who are digging in their heels and who are involved in a power play (both the CD & SO) that this is what they're doing, since they're both so sure they are right and the other is wrong.

[CaitlynRenee]

Very interesting thread. I have never had an experience with another man nor do I think less of those who do or who fantazise doing so. I HAVE fantasized (while en femme) of being in the role of a woman making love to another man AND/OR another woman while making love to my wife, OR by myself. Does that make any sense?? I have made love (drab) while asking my partner if she liked the touch of 'the other womans lips on her body' and said I thought the 'other womans lips tasted sweet'. I've asked her if she liked the taste of the other woman as well and she's said yes, all the while in fantasy land. To my knowledge, she has never made love to another woman (as we were both previously married, I know she has made love to another man).

What we BOTH have in common and what I think most of us here on this site have in common is an intensely creative side to our psyche. Most artistic people are creative to the extreme and I believe there is a good chance that carries over to the bedroom as well. Perhaps not with everyone, but with a great number of people.

Your thoughts??

[Lora Olivia]

I always professed to being bisexual, I knew this long before I came to the realization that I was also gender disphoric. To the OP's question I believe that while it may not be necessary for both sides in a relationship to be bi to work, both sides must be open to that idea, and as others have said these desires for lack of a better word need not be acted upon

[Karen Johnson]

I can only speak for myself. My wife and I are both bi, with me being more bi-curious. Prior to our getting married she had actually swore off of men and lived as a lesbian for several years. Even though we both find members of either sex to be attractive, we don't act on it and are faithful to one another.

To answer the question, I think my wife's being "bi" goes a long way in helping her accept my being a crossdresser.

[Shananigans]

But to turn the tables a bit, I think CDs tend to be pretty self-centered about what we do and sometimes dare I say bordering on narcissistic. It's all about us and how we are feeling. We rarely can put ourselves in the shoes of our partner and really attempt to understand how they feel. and then we wonder why our partner doesn't understand us?

:) the threads on unaccepting wives that are "jealous" of how their husbands look in feminine attire comes to mind. So, I didn't say it....but, this is one of the most valid points that I have heard on this forum.

In the end, open-mindedness and acceptance have to come from BOTH ends. Don't expect me (or any other GG SO) to budge an inch or sympathize with you if you are acting like a prick.

No matter what my sexuality (bi, tri, straight) is....if you are a b*tch, I'll find a way to be even a bigger b*tch.

And, not "you" as in YOU, but the general you. lol

[seanmuscle]

Yes BI partners are better. Think about it. Most heterosexual women are repulsed if their man puts on a dress and heels. Traditional women typically like to be the girl in the relationship. The bi woman can indulge in her fantasies to be with a woman.

[JulieK1980]

Being Bi, I'd say most certainly I make a "better" partner than someone that isn't! :D

*Warning* Objectivity is questionable and individual results may vary.

[Nigella]

OK I've read this a number of times, and unless you have had a hetrosexual partner and a Bisexual partner, how the H e double ll can you answer this question. You have got to have something to compare with before you can say which is better.

[Engendered]

Since I'm very open with my CDing, the girls who I've ended up attracting have, more often than not been bisexual to some degree. There's only one I'm not sure about. I like the point made earlier in the topic about bisexual people generally being more open-minded, and that open-mindedness is a key factor. I think that's true, but I've always felt that bisexuals are (to put it bluntly) our target market. This is an entirely subjective view based on limited personal life experience. I've also heard the same thing that was mentioned by another poster, from one of my bisexual friends, that they prefer their men to be men and women to be women, so my experience may be just coincidental, or simply that I'm drawing from the pool of the open-minded.

[flatlander_48]

I would say that from my experience, it can take a lot of the stress out of things. The tension around discussions about what you think and feel is greatly reduced. It also makes for some fascinating conversations about Who's Hot and Who's Not. All in all, it just makes for a much more pleasant environment when some things are just understood and don't need to be explained. And, the way things have worked out, she has been the one to empower and encourage me. Grateful for that! Always.

[flatlander_48]

OK I've read this a number of times, and unless you have had a hetrosexual partner and a Bisexual partner, how the H e double ll can you answer this question. You have got to have something to compare with before you can say which is better.

My first wife had a major problem with me as I sorted out my sexuality. That was when we were married 20+ years. We eventually divorced after being married for 30 years. By that time I had come to the realization that I am bisexual. It's not a big step to speculate that my eventually becoming a crossdresser would not have sat very well. On the other hand, I'm sitting here this morning (I'm 12 hours ahead of ESDT) in a Victoria's Secret night gown, bra, forms and a thong and wife #2 is OK with it. Would have NEVER happened with wife #1. And yes, I do consider myself quite fortunate.

[Debutante]

My partner is BI. She was in two long term lesbian relationships. She is accepting and urges me to fully
express myself... but I have trouble doing so... inner fears, blocks... so I am slowly getting to where i want to be...

[flatlander_48]

My partner is BI. She was in two long term lesbian relationships. She is accepting and urges me to fully
express myself... but I have trouble doing so... inner fears, blocks... so I am slowly getting to where i want to be...

I understand completely. As men, we have a lot of conditioning about who we are, what we think, how we function and how we look for starters. For me, the issue is watching what I do (at least in MY head) because you cannot unring a bell. There's a constant "is there a line that could be crossed?" and if there is a line "how would I know when I'm close to it?" in the thought process.

[ReineD]

I've also heard the same thing that was mentioned by another poster, from one of my bisexual friends, that they prefer their men to be men and women to be women, so my experience may be just coincidental, or simply that I'm drawing from the pool of the open-minded.

You'd think gay men would be OK with their partners dressing, right? There's an ongoing thread about this and most of our gay members say they find it just as difficult to find accepting partners as het CDs. I think it would be the same for bis. Some will accept and some won't. I don't know that sexual preference has anything to do with a person's openness to flexible gender. I agree with you and the others who say that it must have more to do with having an open mind, no matter the sexual orientation.

[darla_g]

You'd think gay men would be OK with their partners dressing, right? There's an ongoing thread about this and most of our gay members say they find it just as difficult to find accepting partners as het CDs. I think it would be the same for bis. Some will accept and some won't. I don't know that sexual preference has anything to do with a person's openness to flexible gender. I agree with you and the others who say that it must have more to do with having an open mind, no matter the sexual orientation.I know!

I still think to get acceptance you need to give acceptance.

[Shananigans]

Good Lord I know a few gay men that would have a hissy fit. CDing and homosexuality get lumped so much together that many gays are now having problems with drag shows at their clubs because it associates the two as being hand-in-hand. The gay men that I know love MEN...not saying that there wouldn't be a few that would be down for a man presenting as a woman...but, I think that really is an individual exception.

[seanmuscle]

Good Lord I know a few gay men that would have a hissy fit. CDing and homosexuality get lumped so much together that many gays are now having problems with drag shows at their clubs because it associates the two as being hand-in-hand. The gay men that I know love MEN...not saying that there wouldn't be a few that would be down for a man presenting as a woman...but, I think that really is an individual exception.

I agree in most relationships the CD and the gg are bisexual. Gays typically like other men who present as men.

[ReineD]

I agree in most relationships the CD and the gg are bisexual.

This is inaccurate.

Judging by the majority of stories from members of this forum, the GGs who get into relationships with CDers do so BEFORE they know their partners CDress. It stands to reason that the majority of these GGs are hetero, and if some are bi it is simply the same distribution as there is among the GGs who are not in relationships with CDs. See part two of my post for the percentages of bi and lesbian GGs, which, simply put is 5%. Not "most".

It is possible to be open-minded about flexible gender expression, without being bi or gay.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This may or may not be the place to post this, but there are people who study the prevalence of sexual orientations in populations and their findings are a great deal more accurate than anyone in this forum who may "believe" what is the rate of gays or bis (when members use words like "all", "most", or "many") just because they know one, two, five, or twelve people who are gay or bi.

So, for what it's worth, here's an excerpt from "Choices in Relationships: An Introduction to Marriage and the Family", by David Knox and Caroline Schacht (2009):



Prevalence of Homosexuality, Heterosexuality, and Bisexuality

Despite the difficulties inherent in categorizing individuals' sexual orientation, recent data reveal the prevalence of individuals in the United States who idenrify as lesbian, gay, or bisexual. In a national survey by Michael et al. (1994), fewer than 2 percent of women and 3 percent of the men identified themselves as homosexual or bisexual. Berg and Lein (2006) estimated that 7 percent of males and 4 percent of females were not heterosexual. A 2004 national poll showed that about 5 percent of U.S. high school students identified themselves as lesbian or gay (Curtis 2004). Tao (2008) analyzed U.S. women ages 15 to 44 and found that 1.6 percent and 4 percent, respectively, self-identified as being lesbian and bisexual. In a university sample of 1,319 students, .09 percent, .06 percent, and 1.7 percent reported that they were lesbian, gay male, or bisexual, respectively (Knox and Zusnan 2009).

National Data

According to the previously cited research, estimates of the U.S. lesbigay population range from about 2 percent to 7 percent of the U.S. adult population. An easy-to-remember percentage is 5 percent.

http://books.google.com/books?id=x8NT2lMAcJwC&pg=PA246&lpg=PA246&dq=prevalence+of+homosexuality+among+crossdressers&source=bl&ots=VwyhT9dKMb&sig=PVkDhh15zE4vDjk2Vch-i4cDiB0&hl=en&ei=kDGaTfebHObTiAKb7ZGDCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Presh GG]

Seanmucle

not even close.

I'm ok with cd but the very thought of bi makes my skin crawl, and the same goes for my tg husband, so you are way off the mark.

Presh gg

[kellycan27]

Many CDs and their SOs have difficulty in reconciling CDing with the rest of their relationship. But from what I've experienced in my own life and observed here, it seems that CDs who are bi or bicurious make a pretty good match with partners who are similarly inclined.

What do you all think?

what does cding have to do with bisexuality? Are you implying that cder's are less than str8? lmao

[Engendered]

You'd think gay men would be OK with their partners dressing, right? There's an ongoing thread about this and most of our gay members say they find it just as difficult to find accepting partners as het CDs. I think it would be the same for bis. Some will accept and some won't. I don't know that sexual preference has anything to do with a person's openness to flexible gender.

A gay man, and a hetero woman will be attracted (in a 'instinctive' biological way) to Maleness(tm), so it's certainly understandable that it would be just as difficult for CDs with gay men as partners, and CDs with het females as partners. My thinking is that people who are Bi won't be as 'turned off' by the sight of their partner presenting as a different gender, because they're attracted to both maleness and femaleness. I do think there's something to that argument.

A separate example: Person A likes ice cream but not strawberries. Person B likes both ice cream and strawberries. Who is more likely to like strawberry icecream? This may be a naive argument/analogy, but it's hard to let go something which matches my own experience. :)

Having said that, I would love to be wrong, completely wrong, as it would vastly improve my dating opportunities. :)

[seanmuscle]

A gay man, and a hetero woman will be attracted (in a 'instinctive' biological way) to Maleness(tm), so it's certainly understandable that it would be just as difficult for CDs with gay men as partners, and CDs with het females as partners. My thinking is that people who are Bi won't be as 'turned off' by the sight of their partner presenting as a different gender, because they're attracted to both maleness and femaleness. I do think there's something to that argument.

A separate example: Person A likes ice cream but not strawberries. Person B likes both ice cream and strawberries. Who is more likely to like strawberry icecream? This may be a naive argument/analogy, but it's hard to let go something which matches my own experience. :)

Having said that, I would love to be wrong, completely wrong, as it would vastly improve my dating opportunities. :)

Exactly. Every heterosexual female I know is turned off by a CD. And gays tend to only like men that dress like men. Any woman that says she is straight and holds hands and kiss their CD husband while he is femme mode is just a latent bisexual. Nothing wrong with bisexual either. Just saying the truth.

[ReineD]

Engendered, it seems as if a bi GG "should" be more open to both, a natal woman who presents male, and a natal male who presents female, than a non-bi GG. But, I'm not convinced.

If we ask all the bi GGs in this forum, the results will be skewed since they are already here obviously in support of a CDing partner, as are the non-bi GGs.

Another category of GGs the OP didn't ask about and that I don't see mentioned here, are the hetero GGs who are specifically attracted to CDing males (more than non-CDing males). We have one or two such GGs here as well. :)

All we can do is to allow our differing opinions on the matter, unless someone in this forum has access, and the time to read and assess the available studies, and post the results. So at this point, the safest answer is to say that some bis will be attracted, and others won't. Anything else is pure conjecture.

At any rate, the available pool of bis to choose from is low according to statistics of lesbiegay/bi individuals. So even if the studies would show that bi GGs are more open to gender flexible presentation than non-bi GGs, the topic may well be moot, since there are so few of them.

Shenanigans .... I bet you didn't know how rare you are!! You're a very precious commodity! :) :hugs:


Exactly. Every heterosexual female I know is turned off by a CD.

The trouble with that argument is that your experience is severely limited. You should read all the threads here from the CDers who are in relationships with women who welcome them in the bedroom, and who don't consider themselves to be bi or lesbian. lol

Not that there's anything wrong with being bi or lesbian. But there are GGs who are very much into their CDing husbands and who are not in the least bit attracted to natal women.

[JulieK1980]

At any rate, the available pool of bis to choose from is low according to statistics of lesbiegay/bi individuals. So even if the studies would show that bi GGs are more open to gender flexible presentation than non-bi GGs, the topic may well be moot, since there are so few of them.


Are we sure about that? I'd be willing to bet the actual numbers are skewed, so many of us are in hetero relationships that (I think) it might be difficult to get an accurate accounting. Makes me wonder how many crossdressers there are out there as well, we tend to be a shy bunch as well after all.

Though to answer the question in this thread, I really haven't seen any personal experience to think any particular group of people are more accepting vs any other group. I think, how accepting a person is has a lot more to do with their own experiences and their upbringing. Perhaps someone that is bi is more likely to be accepting because they are more likely to be open minded, but I wouldn't bank on it either.

[Barbara Dugan]

You'd think gay men would be OK with their partners dressing, right? There's an ongoing thread about this and most of our gay members say they find it just as difficult to find accepting partners as het CDs. I think it would be the same for bis. Some will accept and some won't. I don't know that sexual preference has anything to do with a person's openness to flexible gender. I agree with you and the others who say that it must have more to do with having an open mind, no matter the sexual orientation.

I totally agree...I have a lot of trouble finding a partner that accept both sides of me...I am only attracted to masculine guys but the chances that one of those guys accept me the way I am is very slim..I think my chances would improve just being a regular gay guy, but I don't feel completely comfortable being just that....I think the better partner is the one that accept you and support you regardless of orientation

[ReineD]

Are we sure about that? I'd be willing to bet the actual numbers are skewed, so many of us are in hetero relationships that (I think) it might be difficult to get an accurate accounting.

Well, like I said in my post above, the only data we can rely on is the research by the people who are out there in the field (you can look up the individual articles if you have access to research journals). If the research is done properly and there is no indication that it isn't, then the cross-section of people surveyed are representative of the population at large. One of the studies was recently conducted at a college, where the participants would not have been in hetero relationships for years.

In the book I mentioned above, the authors were quick to point out there are more than 5% who've experimented with same-sex partners, but if they don't engage in it on a regular basis, then they wouldn't be counted as being bi or gay. Which makes sense.

[JulieK1980]

Well, like I said in my post above, the only data we can rely on is the research by the people who are out there in the field (you can look up the individual articles if you have access to research journals). If the research is done properly and there is no indication that it isn't, then the cross-section of people surveyed are representative of the population at large. One of the studies was recently conducted at a college, where the participants would not have been in hetero relationships for years.

In the book I mentioned above, the authors were quick to point out there are more than 5% who've experimented with same-sex partners, but if they don't engage in it on a regular basis, then they wouldn't be counted as being bi or gay. Which makes sense.

I've read a few over the years, the numbers always seem to vary from one stat to the next. It's a difficult task to create a truly objective research survey. Not to mention it relies on honesty from the participants. It could be accurate though, sadly we'll probably never know. Interesting though if they include the "experimenting" people it would be closer to 10% Then of course their is the small segment of the psych community that is convinced we are all bi to some degree.

[ReineD]

Interesting though if they include the "experimenting" people it would be closer to 10%
Or maybe even more!



Then of course their is the small segment of the psych community that is convinced we are all bi to some degree.
Right. Have you heard of Marjorie Garber's, "Vice Versa: Bisexuality and the Eroticism of Everyday Life"? She's a Harvard professor who argued that most of us would be bi if it weren't for religion, repression, denial, and lack of opportunity. It's an interesting theory.

[JulieK1980]

Right. Have you heard of Marjorie Garber's, "Vice Versa: Bisexuality and the Eroticism of Everyday Life"? She's a Harvard professor who argued that most of us would be bi if it weren't for religion, repression, denial, and lack of opportunity. It's an interesting theory.

I have, (although I admit, I didn't know who wrote it,) it's an absolutely fascinating theory! I guess it kind of relates to the nature vs. nurture argument. How much of it is determined by genetics and how much of it is determined by our social upbringing? I've honestly known a very limited few who haven't experimented in one way shape or another. (Granted that's far from a statistical significance. lol) But it does make you wonder if it might be an accurate theory that Garber argued.

[ReineD]

But, repressed sexuality or not, the fact remains that 95% (using the above statistics) of the adult population simply are not attracted to same-sex partners for any long-term relationship. I've looked long and hard inside myself to see if I could overcome any repressed feelings over being attracted to other women and frankly, I just don't see anything there. I've never been particularly religious and I think I march to the beat of my own drum. And I've certainly had the opportunities. But maybe I've just not met the right natal female?

I don't think I'm in the minority, but I may be wrong. Maybe other GGs can jump in and speak for themselves.

[JulieK1980]

But, repressed sexuality or not, the fact remains that 95% (using the above statistics) of the adult population simply are not attracted to same-sex partners for any long-term relationship. I've looked long and hard inside myself to see if I could overcome any repressed feelings over being attracted to other women and frankly, I just don't see anything there. I've never been particularly religious and I think I march to the beat of my own drum. And I've certainly had the opportunities. But maybe I've just not met the right natal female?

I don't think I'm in the minority, but I may be wrong. Maybe other GGs can jump in and speak for themselves.

I'm fairly certain you are in fact in a large majority. However, if you stripped away all the religion, and social morals you have to wonder if that 5% wouldn't rise to say 15%.

[Shananigans]

I agree in most relationships the CD and the gg are bisexual.

Well, I don't know about that. I don't think there are any real statistics on this actually. We wouldn't know one way or the other if most CD relationships are between bisexual partners unless we had real data. And, as a lot of CDs just never really come clean with it, we may never actually know which way the gate is swinging with most couples.

Communication between couples these days is so f*cked up, do you honestly think that they might discuss variations in their sexual preferences? Haha

My SO didn't know I was bi until after we had been together for a year...I didn't know he was into other CDs until about a year into our relationship. I'm guessing a lot of couples just don't have these conversations (especially those that have SOs that don't even know that they are a CD) and thus...it's just really hard to say.

Here's a funny one for you... Most CDs on this site say they are heterosexual. But, then, they post scandalous pictures on this site in order to gain attention and comments from other men. But, they'll stomp around all day and say they are straight.

Closet bisexual? Haha I don't know. But, my lips are sealed. ;)


Traditional women typically like to be the girl in the relationship. The bi woman can indulge in her fantasies to be with a woman.

Ehhhh...by "traditional" woman, I am guessing you mean straight women. I'm bi, but I definitely like to be the girl in the relationship too haha. I can be flexible, but I'd rather be a chick too. Maybe you mean that bisexual women are okay with having more than one woman in the relationship, in which case...YES!


My thinking is that people who are Bi won't be as 'turned off' by the sight of their partner presenting as a different gender, because they're attracted to both maleness and femaleness. I do think there's something to that argument.

I don't know if this is true for all bisexuals. But, that is generally how it goes for me. That being said, yes I am attracted to both masculinity and femininity; however, I would prefer my SO to shave and present fully as a woman when he is choosing to do so. In other words, wear the wig, shave, wear the makeup. Look like a GIRL. Yes, he still has the external anatomy of a man. There IS something sexy about someone that looks like a girl, but has male external anatomy to me. I don't know what it is really. But, then again, a hot girl with a strap-on could also have me any day. Well, a hot girl with or without one really...

I do find my SO attractive and sexy even when he is "dressed down" and may not be shaved all of the way, but I'm not sure that this is so much due to the fact that I am bi. Just that I love my SO.


Engendered, it seems as if a bi GG "should" be more open to both, a natal woman who presents male, and a natal male who presents female, than a non-bi GG. But, I'm not convinced.

If we ask all the bi GGs in this forum, the results will be skewed since they are already here obviously in support of a CDing partner, as are the non-bi GGs.

At any rate, the available pool of bis to choose from is low according to statistics of lesbiegay/bi individuals. So even if the studies would show that bi GGs are more open to gender flexible presentation than non-bi GGs, the topic may well be moot, since there are so few of them.

Shenanigans .... I bet you didn't know how rare you are!! You're a very precious commodity! :) :hugs:

Not that there's anything wrong with being bi or lesbian. But there are GGs who are very much into their CDing husbands and who are not in the least bit attracted to natal women.

I've heard I am probably "pansexual"...but, I've called myself bisexual for so long that it just hasn't stuck. I had to google it when I was called it, because I didn't know what it was. But, I am going to go ahead and assume that there are probably a few bisexuals that may be in my boat. I'm just attracted to who I am attracted to...they might be male, they might be female, they might be CDs, they might be TSs, they might be somewhere in between...if you turn me on, you turn me on....I can't really explain it to myself and don't really care to try to dissect the greater meaning of it all. If this makes me bisexual or pansexual...alright then. I'm not really sure what it is other than I am attracted to people lol.

I also agree that there are straight women/men who could be into their husbands/wives CDing on a sexual level...I think that's just love. If it's really part of your sexuality, technically it would mean that you could be very much into ANYONE CDing...not just your SO.

[Engendered]

I don't really have anything further to add, but I like this topic and the people posting in it. :)
I would *love* to see completely accurate statistics about all things gender-related. Tangentally from that, our census form (Ireland is having its census in 5 days) doesn't include a question on gender, or even sexuality. (They do ask about religion, profession, travel methods, language)

[ReineD]

Here's a funny one for you... Most CDs on this site say they are heterosexual. But, then, they post scandalous pictures on this site in order to gain attention and comments from other men. But, they'll stomp around all day and say they are straight.

I used to feel the same way. It took me a while to figure out that when CDs dress and pose sexy, they don't do it for the same reasons a GG does. We do it, as you say, to seduce men and reel them in. :) They do it for validation. Some may have sexual motives, but the hetero CDers do not. For those who do have sexual motives, it could be they are bi or gay and they are in fact trying to attract men, OR it could be they are autogynephelic (attracted to the self as a woman), and the attention from men provides them with a sexual self-validation. I should think the AGPs have a sexual orientation all their own, if they are attracted to themselves dressed more than they are attracted to men or women.

So now I do believe the CDers who say they are not trying to attract men when they dress like that.



I also agree that there are straight women/men who could be into their husbands/wives CDing on a sexual level...I think that's just love. If it's really part of your sexuality, technically it would mean that you could be very much into ANYONE CDing...not just your SO.

Absolutely! If I were unattached, I could go for a different CDer than my SO. Still can't see myself with a natal woman though.


I don't really have anything further to add, but I like this topic and the people posting in it. :)
Tangentally from that, our census form (Ireland is having its census in 5 days) doesn't include a question on gender, or even sexuality

Ours doesn't either. The scientific studies are conducted separately, the idea being that the sample is representative of the population at large.

[Alicia_lynn419]

I kind'a prefer the term "hetroflexible"... for what it's worth.... But really, labels do too much to divide....

[Shananigans]

I kind'a prefer the term "hetroflexible"... for what it's worth.... But really, labels do too much to divide....

Then you must go ape sh*t at the LGBTQ logo.

I kind of like it because pretty soon we will have all the letters of the alphabet...it's like Pokeman cards...but, with the ABCs...gotta collect 'em all!

It's funny though...we divide ourselves (or clarify, if you will) by saying that we are gay or bisexual or whatever...but, even though there are those labels for clarification (maybe pride too haha), we still are under one group and are very supportive of one another.

So, I disagree that labels are purely devices of division. I think without labels, we'd walk around with our mouths half open, uncertain of what to call anything...afraid that by calling someone a woman, it will be considered "not politically correct." Instead you have to say, "That is a Homo sapien and it has a vagina...OH GOD!...I said 'homo.' I LABELED A VAGINA! NO!"

Labels are okay (just as okay as any other way of communicating intelligently)...people who use them to discriminate are not okay. There IS a difference.

[BRANDYJ]

I agree with Shanan wih the use and need for labels. Good luck with buying canned goods without labels. Never know what ya gonna be eating.
Wel said Shana!

[kimdl93]

What a fascinating discussion! It sorta illustrates how gender identification and sexuality are separate from each other, and exist in all sorts of fascinating combinations. Sometimes, we're lucky enough to find a partner whose mix of these attributes compliments our own.

I also agree with Engendered - I enjoyed the topic and the people posting to it. And as a bonus, I learned a new word: autogynephelic.

[Jmichelle60]

I wish I could find a partner who was bi as I think that it would be the best of both worlds.

[flatlander_48]

I wish I could find a partner who was bi as I think that it would be the best of both worlds.

To me it implies a lack of rigidity around traditional social structures. I think that is what allows one to seek out and experience new things...

[bobbie sue]

Hi i live 24/7 female and done so all my life my wife of 30 years has always been bi she works an i keep the house thats the way it always has been and will be she is very tom boy i very very fem not bi at all but having a bi wife is so great works for us. LOVE YA!

[kimdl93]

although this is straying slightly from the OP, it seems that having a bi partner may also alter the dynamics when a couple goes out in public. Many, if not most, accepting GGs do not want to be perceived as lesbian partners - so when together in public with their CD partner (en femme) they present as friends rather than as a couple.

[Sandra]

Many, if not most, accepting GGs do not want to be perceived as lesbian partners - so when together in public with their CD partner (en femme) they present as friends rather than as a couple.

I'm not bi and what people think of me when we are out together doesn't bother me at. When we are we are a couple not friends, we hold hands and kiss....sod what people think :)

[kimdl93]

Interesting contrast. My wife is bi and quite demonstrably affectionate - but I'm still too chicken to go out fully dressed.

[ReineD]

Many, if not most, accepting GGs do not want to be perceived as lesbian partners - so when together in public with their CD partner (en femme) they present as friends rather than as a couple.

It's the reverse in our case. My SO doesn't want to draw attention to us (and therefore her) when we are out in public, by being two women who are openly affectionate. Sadly, this does get noticed more than a male and female who are kissing or holding hands. As for me, it depends. If I am in a place full of strangers, it doesn't matter how I'm perceived. But if there are people there I know and who do not know about my SO's CDing, then it does matter. There's also the question of whether the people we might know have good gender cue radars or not. My SO is not TS and does not live publicly as a woman.

I'm openly affectionate with my SO en femme when we are with people who know and accept her.

[kimdl93]

I would guess that my SO would be less demonstrative if I were dressed in public (depending on the situation) to avoid drawing attention to us, but I' suspect she'd be openly affectionate among accepting people too.