Real life test

[Kelsy]

The real life test in my opinion was put in place not so much for the benefit of the transsexual but as an insurmountable barrier to surgery and hormones for those who do not pass perfectly. The requirements of the test are based in a binary supporting understanding. One has to adhere to living successfully ”as a female” in order to gain access to the relief that the system pretends to offer. I contend there are even cisgendered women who would have trouble living successfully as a woman if they had a penis and didn’t have the advantages of estrogen!

The test is weighted for failure to those whose ” looks” are less than traditionally feminine! It is a shallow approach. Just because someone does not possess a natural feminine exterior does not mean that that person does not possess a cross gendered identity for real. So in order to pass through this gate one must ultimately support and strenghthen the binary system. The very system that discriminates against those who would scale the walls and claim a right to exist peacefully as themselves!

The real life test is in place to protect the treatment professions far more than it protects for the treated. How many true cisgendered people will rush to have sex altering surgery and how many of the trans folk who have obtained surgery have regretted it? Who is being protected? If I can elect to have my face carved up and irrevocably changed to resemble my target Gender, a certainly visible statement, without a gate then why is it so difficult to rearrange my genitals that few would ever see?

Just sayin" Kelsy

[Stephenie S]

It's not the RLT (the real life TEST), it's the RLE (the real life EXPERIENCE). I'm not sure when that word "test" snuck in there. It makes this very misleading as if it was something that you "pass or fail".

What really happens is that YOU find out whether you really want to do this or not. For many, this is a fantasy. A fantasy that needs to be fully explored before you make any permanent decisions. It's not a test, it's an experience.

IMHO, if you really know who you are, you will be doing this already, not waiting for someone to tell you that you are ready. And it's not that difficult. If you are experiencing the "gatekeeper" mentality from your caregivers then you need to find different caregivers.

Stephie

[noeleena]

Hi,,

Some of us dont do or go through this test or real life living or spend time with Psychs its not for every one so the gate keepers in my case our Psych i spent all most an hour & he said get on with your life & i was signed off there & then . He said i dont need to see you again .

our endo was much the same i took meds when i was ready & not before, did my tests just to make sure i was okay body wise , i saw him 3 times & away ,

I could have dressed with a sack for clothes it had no bearing on clothes no matter what i had or not worn... some what different . yes

The three reasons being, my age , i was not any thing other than male ./ female not one or the other im both.
& i said what i was going to do & how i was going to live no ifs or buts , they accepted i did have my head screwed on . so no issues or details to go through .

I know some like to think im M T F or transsexual , now i dont have issues with that tho some cant think passed the fact some of us are intersex so because we are different again we come at things a bit different , well i did .

I do understand tho some have G I D & other issues to work through so yes the gate keepers are there to help & try & stop some who ill use the , playing games & the costs involved so is it any wonder the gate keepers are the way they are.

Being sure of your self, haveing self assurance , selfesteem & self worth & no majors Psychologically & emotionally .then yes thats a lot different . & all so some are not ready to go through all that we have to go through ,


I never had any one tell me who i am or what i should be or do & i live in the real world every day, any way you all know that . & how i dress is really immaterial to who i am as a person , yet im accepted as a woman in my own right yet my male side is all ways there i cant seperate that .& i wont .

This is for most who are looking at meds & surgery.

so what im saying is get all the help you need & if when you do the meds & all & surgery just remember for the male side theres no going back so if your not ready remember after it all dont think itll be so easy going back because youll need to change meds back to T & the mental issues , some do.


Kelsy,

You are right as to the pass or looks & i agree I would not pass as a woman let alone a female so id be hung out , theres no way itll work . yet im accepted as a person first & 2 nd as a woman i m better looking as male & iv been told that so you have a delemr well i am . so what, does it matter for me it comes down to im not trying to be one or the other . yet im accepted as both . now thats quite a change from the binery we talk about ,

Do you think , well some people get past the are you a girl or boy im not pretending to be one or the other i like being in the middle tho i tend some , more towards female / woman. & yes i love the dress clothes i wear as a woman. & i have a lot of respect .from others , yet my male side is very important to me . & thats . as a person.



...noeleena...

[Frances]

In my experience with so-called gatekeepers (I went through one of the harshest gatekeeping programs in my country) is that they let people through who can handle everything that will happen later one, not the ones that look and act the most like June Cleaver. For them, there are no real or false transsexuals. Anyone who knocks on their door asking help to change sex is a transsexual. They just want to make sure that the patient/client will be able to cope with how hard it will be later on. They do not care whether you look like Barbie or Randall Tex Cobb in a dress, they will delay your transition enough to make sure that you can handle going through life looking like Randall Tex Cobb in a dress. My own therapy with these gatekeepers lasted five years and cost me $15,000.

[Katesback]

I never went to a therapist. I did not need to pay someone my hard earned money to agree with me about something I knew all my life. I simply did what I had to do and that was to go through transition. Would a therapist have been helpful? I cannot say since I did not go.

I will say that my observatios of those that go to therapists and our convsersations about the process leaves me with the feeling that they make a hell of a lot of money off trans people! On the other hand I have met a TON of trans people and a VERY large number of them in my opinion do need therapy. The funny thing is that often the therapy I mean has nothing to do with them being trans but that they have a lot of other common issues they need to address.

Katie

[Frances]

The funny thing is that often the therapy I mean has nothing to do with them being trans but that they have a lot of other common issues they need to address.

That is the point I was making about gatekeepers. They want to make sure that you have done all your mental house-cleaning in order to face what's coming next. I needed therapy. I could have done with a little less of it, but I needed it, and quite a lot of trans people do.

[sandra-leigh]

Around here, the TG leading into TS folk that I know go to therapy and are glad to go if they can afford it. (Well, except for one I know who bitterly resents it, but that is due to past history of being unfairly "psychiatrized".) It is not mandatory here for hormones at all; for SRS two independent assessments one at the PhD level are required, but those are basically assessments to be sure the person is sane and able to make a reasoned decision.

A lot of other common issues they need to address... yes, that is not unexpected to me. I know that I wandered in to several different major stresses that had nothing direct to do with my gender identity. If I can't learn how to Talk to my wife, then dealing seriously with TG/TS issues is going to be much harder than otherwise.

[CharleneT]

It's not the RLT (the real life TEST), it's the RLE (the real life EXPERIENCE). I'm not sure when that word "test" snuck in there. It makes this very misleading as if it was something that you "pass or fail".


Well, you can blame the HB SOC for where that word slipped in. Many practioners that you encounter will consider it a "test". As well, the two abbrevs are commonly used to mean the same thing: living 24/7 as a person in your target gender - for at least one year. While I do not think of it as a test perse, "failing" is definitely possible. Obviously that is not the intent, but in the way that many think of the process it is functionally a test (for themselves). Anyway, here is a screen shot from the WPATH web site of the current version of the SOC (socv6.pdf). It is the section where they discuss the difference between the two terms:

[Stephenie S]

Isn't that just what I said? It's not a "test", it's an experience. RLE. I wish we could get over saying "test".

As I said before, I would think if you were certain yourself, you would be just doing this already instead of waiting for someone else to say, "OK, you passed your test."

S

[Katesback]

It is all ok sis. You and I both know that VERY VERY few people ever go through transition and come out as a woman. I realize that a LOT of people are dreamers and it does make sense to push people towards the gate to see if they can make it.

Like you though I did NOT need to go to some person and pay them money to agree with what I knew since the day I can remember. And I agree with you if someone really does not KNOW then they probably are a dreamer.

Katie



Isn't that just what I said? It's not a "test", it's an experience. RLE. I wish we could get over saying "test".

As I said before, I would think if you were certain yourself, you would be just doing this already instead of waiting for someone else to say, "OK, you passed your test."

S

[Alicia Ryanne]

It is all ok sis. You and I both know that VERY VERY few people ever go through transition and come out as a woman. I realize that a LOT of people are dreamers and it does make sense to push people towards the gate to see if they can make it.

Like you though I did NOT need to go to some person and pay them money to agree with what I knew since the day I can remember. And I agree with you if someone really does not KNOW then they probably are a dreamer.

Katie

Just wanting to know what you specifically wanted to get across by the statement......very very few people ever go THROUGH transition and come out the other side as a woman?
Yes the statistics are on the low side for trangendered ppl that go from being male to fully female(ie having the surgery, etc). Was your intent really just saying most ppl that are transgender and think they are true transexuals are merely intense cross-dressers who ultimately figure out during an attempt at transition that they are in fact not an actual transexual that wants/needs to physically become female(or male in the reverse situation)?

[JennyA]

When one goes to a therapist you would think that they would willingly go so that they could bear their soul to a professional and get sound advice and nudges in the right direction on issues. But I think the problem is that many TG people go to the therapy with a certain degree of trepidation. They know that their answers to certain topics could sway the counselors opinion on whether to write the letter or not. Thus, I think that some answers might become guarded or they will answer the issues with what the counselor would want to hear rather then what they really feel. I don't like that you have to tip-toe around a therapist, and one that you are paying as well.

[sandra-leigh]

Jenny, I just tell my therapists the truth about things. Then when they hear me talking about gener issues they know I'm being serious and not following along a script.

Kate: "You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I am not the only one."

[Avana]

here in nyc i have been attending counseling through the gender identity project. my counselor is a trans woman and there is no such gatekeeping to speak of. in fact, she has gone out of her way to try to help me procure hormones through an established trans medical center here in the city, after just one meeting with her.

i'd rather call her a door-opener.

[Dawn D.]

When it comes to gatekeeping as is the intent of the SOC, it would seem that it was em-placed to be a benefit to those of us who struggled with something they really could not either come to grips with on their own, or did not understand what it was they are struggling with.

Having said that, there are those of us in this 'modern era' in which, with the vast amounts of information covering the subject being instantly available; this makes the self-understanding a much quicker and less painful affair to endure. There are also those amongst us who seem to have such a firm grip on their own thinking and internal understandings, they simply are 100% confident in charging full speed ahead without having any ancillary issues to work out, or through. To these folk, many kudos to you!

There are myriad reasons though for the need of a therapist. As for therapists and the need for them to assess, guide, authorize and qualify; it's really about your own self-awareness level and confidence. As someone said earlier in this thread e.g., the need for therapy usually is about issues other than being transexual. Mostly, these are issues of depression as a resultant effect of being transexual, and not knowing or believing that you can be the person you really are.

I know, for myself, this was the issue most pressingly at hand. That, and working through the little issue of how to maintain a loving relationship with my wife once I transitioned. Or, how she was going to be able to want to remain in a relationship with me afterward. Thankfully all of those were worked through effectively and positively.

My therapist was not a "gender" therapist. My therapist never once suggested that I needed to do a "test" to see if I could make it work. She did ask me when I thought I would be ready to begin RLE. She was not even all that aware of the S.O.C. in our early days of therapy. Early on I even found it necessary to bring her a copy of them at one of my sessions, lol.

As far as RLE and the issues that the OP raised. I kind of understand what your frustration is. However, if I might ask, what would you think a better alternative to going out and living in the gender role as one's target gender and maintaining, A) a productive life, B) a healthy mental state and C) a development of confidence? Especially if that individual does not possess these attributes before transition. Conversely, I maintain it is possible for people who do not have the "traditionally feminine" look to transition successfully. I know some that have. Including yours truly. But, I wouldn't have gained that confidence had I not had the therapy to assist me in getting there, and gone through the RLE process.

But, that's just me. As I stated before, some of us do not need it and they shouldn't have to be pushed into that gatekeeping if they truly feel this way. I'm big on the idea of a free market. We should be able to seek out and obtain the services we need and desire to have, rather than be forced into a one size fits all system. 'Cause it doesn't!

One last thought. If you should be able to do what you want to with your gender issue, then you should also be accepting of living with the consequences of your decision should you ultimately find that you erred. It is a rare happening for certain. Yet, occasionally it does. Then the law suits start, and the nay-sayers from the fundamentalist side have their hey day and throw us up in the spotlight as yet one more example of how we (collectively) are just a bunch of nut-jobs that need mental therapy. Kind of a viscous circle...............ain't it?


Dawn

[Stephenie S]

I saw a therapist with the intent of securing my "letter".

I knew that SRS was fast approaching and I also knew that the process would go more easily if I had that letter. So I informed the therapist that the letter would be required before we started together.

Would I recommend therapy to others? Yes I would. I, for instance, discovered I was carrying around a HUGE burden of unnecessary guilt over the death of my father.

On the other hand, I went to school with someone who had been in therapy to the tune of $800 a month for 15 YEARS! Don't try to tell me that someone wasn't fleecing HER. She was perfectly sane, but the therapist had convinced her that she had been abused by a coven of witches in her infancy. Right.

Therapy can help. That's for sure. But some have no need of therapy at all. Here in the USA it is the usual route to surgery. Therapy, endo, surgery. I think Kelsey is spot on with her observation that the SOC are there for the protection of the caregivers and not the patients

[Jessinthesprings]

It's not the RLT (the real life TEST), it's the RLE (the real life EXPERIENCE). I'm not sure when that word "test" snuck in there. It makes this very misleading as if it was something that you "pass or fail".

What really happens is that YOU find out whether you really want to do this or not. For many, this is a fantasy. A fantasy that needs to be fully explored before you make any permanent decisions. It's not a test, it's an experience.

IMHO, if you really know who you are, you will be doing this already, not waiting for someone to tell you that you are ready. And it's not that difficult. If you are experiencing the "gatekeeper" mentality from your caregivers then you need to find different caregivers.

Stephie

Could not have said this better... And unless you are made of money you need to save for the surgery. So this year thing is more than a formality anyway. You can't wake up today and have it tomorrow. Most surgeons have a several month waiting list.

[Kelsy]

I am very comfortable with my therapist. She has made a point of telling me that she disagrees with
heavy handed gatekeeping and has guided me to professionals who are very competent, understanding
and are only interested in helping me find a healthy path to find resolution of my problems and a way to
be complete! www.fenwayhealth.org
I understand the RLE is in place to test resolve and authenticity and strength of need to live as
your chosen gender . I think it is also in place to protect the psychological well-being of the transitioner.
But if someone has just too many male cues do you think it is Ill advised to attempt it even if your
gender discomfort is genuine? What happens if you fail? Isn’t your life then changed and psychological
well-being compromised?

Thanks for being patient with me the hard work of transitioning has only just begun for me!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Kelsy, to your comment on what happens if i fail??

I remember about 2 1/2 yrs ago I brought my two best college friends over to "tell them the news"..after many hours of discussion and lots of imbibing...we turned in for the night..(they slept over )..

the next morning one of my friends asked if anyone ever laughed at me....i said yes... he asked how i felt when it happened and i paused, and he offered that he would feel humiliated... i said..NO! I will feel humiliated in a year when i have to explain to you guys that this is all one big mistake...!!

that was a blurted out comment, but there was a nugget of truth in it... one of the things that held me back was fear of failure...my own personality is to try to cover all my bases, so for many years i saved up for ffs and srs, researched therapists, shopped for doctors that were trans friendly and I obsessively posted on forums (ahem)... and it got me to the point where my desperation outweighed my fears, and away i went...

That's what RLE is about...experiencing a life..
My RLE started before FFS, but after HRT, and after finding a good therapist that i could trust, i made sure that I had in place a number of transsexual women that i could count on for a shoulder to cry on, or for advice when needed (even if i thought i knew everything)...

all this is to say that transition is scary, and transition is difficult, and many of us F*# it up, and then blame everybody and everything but ourselves (including those darn gatekeepers!)...
it takes planning, determination, and patience (the hardest part is patience)..

RLE is a good thing...rules are subject to interpretation, rules are made to be broken, and rules can be manipulated in your favor...but the experience of waking up and going to work in a different gender role, of dealing with the day in and day out bullcrap, and looking every single person on this earth every single day and saying "this is who i am" cannot be overestimated..

if you feel stuck on RLE or RLT, or you are running into a gatekeeper that is causing harm or dealing with whatever is stopping you, then it is totally up to you to figure your next steps and not rely on a manual ..and if you are failing, take a step back and remember it NOT A TEST!!!!!!! you may need to change something, take a break (see if going back makes things better..or makes you even crazier)...but there is no right or wrong answer

[Teri Jean]

Test? No. Experiance, very much so. While I made the same comment early on and it is a term they use in therapy it is not a test as you are not going to pass or fail but experiance the day to day experiances of living as a woman. For some it is a challenge and find out they are not transsexual but a transgendered. That is okay and like some have stated "I'm an adult and I am responsible enough to make my own decisions as to my gender preference and changes I want to endure. I for one find the idea of gate guarding is demeaning and for some unnecessary but then I find there are many things we do everyday that we take for granted and they are placed there for our protection and welfare. So the question is how badly do we want to be the person we know we are? Are we willing to endure the short term inconvinences for the life time of peace. I understand why some feel it is controlling and for that so be it, it is your right as is your opinion. This is mine, respectfully.

Teri

[NathalieX66]

I'm not in the transsexual category, nor am I transitioning, , but I do go out in the most public of places as Nathalie.....pick a spot, you name it, I've been there.
Whatever RLE is, I at least live some or part of it.
When it comes down to my employer, they know nothing of it. That's where my cut-off point is, and where I keep my TG life secret. ......I'm happy.
Been there/done that.

[MarieTS]

As one in the midst of RLT/E, or what ever you want to call it, I believe the RLE is neccessary for a variety of reasons. Ultimately, whether we want to admit it or not, it protects the medical establishment from civil suits by those amongst us who may act on impulse. Heck--you can't get a transfusion without a blood test, so why should someone be able to submit themselves to such a profound set of procedures without medical and psychological due diligence? Personally speaking, I've waited a long time for this. And although I initially resisted the high barriers, they've become helpful stepping stones to a more relaxed metamorphis. I can honestly report that for me it has been a support structure, not a painful barrier.

[Rianna Humble]

Kate: "You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I am not the only one."

Well ... ... Imagine!

[Kelsy]

Thanks everyone ,

I am learning that what I need most in this struggle is support! I know who I am, who I always have been, and the changes I am undertaking,
getting there whole is my desire!

K

[JennyA]

If I hadn't known about gender therapists and how part of their job is to see if you really, truly, are ready for all the flak you might get becoming a woman I might not have taken all the steps that I have. The first time I ever went out as a woman it was for two reasons. I had to know that I could handle the eyes and smirks and part of me wanted to know that I could look my therapist in the eye and tell them that I was living full time. I think the real-life test is good in a way. It pushes you to figure out if you can handle it all. I might have procrastinated going out as a woman if I hadn't had my appointment to see a counselor. After I went to that first gas station and McDonalds I knew that I could handle the looks. Now, heck, it's easy to a point, and i keep pushing myself farther.

I think if their was no guideline, if doctors let anyone and everyone get on the medical bus, their might be a lot of people who, while loving the idea of the female gender, could never take societies criticism over their choices. It would be tough on a lot of people if they got six months into a hormone regime, decided they couldn't or didn't want to take it on, then switched back to body natural hormones. I think their is only so much the body and mind can take emotionally and physically with the hormone game.

I personally dream about hormones and what it could do, but I think it's a placebo thing. Popping a bottle of pills, while slowly altering me, won't give me the guts and the wherewithal to go the distance and make me feel complete. Knowing I'm on the pill and blocking the testosterone will make me feel one step closer to my female spirit, but I'd be silly to think that budding breasts and baby hips will complete my journey. I guess what i'm rambling about is that , while I hate the fact that I have to see a therapist because i'm poor and can't afford her help, I know in the end a professional's human help and opinions will help me down the path to womanhood. The one that I am going to be able to see is only going to charge $25 too, she's doing some of it pro bono.

[Sejd]

Very eloquently put Kelsy. Can't add anything to that one :0)
Hugs
Sejd

[Sejd]

Having read through the many answers to this post I will give you all my personal experience.
I went to a gender therapist. She was a PHD and a well known doctor in these matters. I don't regret the time or money I spent and she did help me come to terms with my gender "disorder" (whatever we name it). But one thing really was missing throughout this whole experience, the understanding that I was living with a wife and that we had raised 3 kids, that I had a job, and that I was not looking for a divorce. Not at any time did this therapist prepare me for the conflicts or struggle which was ahead and there was no talk about incorporating the family pattern or how to struggle this out together in this difficult situation. The same therapist recommended people I know for surgery although I sincerely doubt that they were advocates for this transition. I am telling you all this because there seem to be a lack of understanding for the "whole picture" in the minds of some gender therapist and their education. This result, unfortunately, in many TG people are pushed into complete transition and after that finds themselves absolutely without any support systems or family or friends. Now how is that for a journey? I think : maybe not what is needed. Life is many things, and means a lot of different things to different people. I believe that finding our true gender is important, and it is our task to find ways to satisfy that need , but we also live in a quilt of community which holds us and through which we also live and breathe.
I wish that the gender therapeutic community will include our whole patterns of family, children and friends and work to find holistic solutions for all trans gender people.

[MarieTS]

Jenny, your remarks are very insightful. You obviously understand that "looks" are only part of the equation, and that one needs the courage to stand-up to the mean spirited folk amongst us if they are going to survive and then thrive in their reconditoned body.

[MarieTS]

Sejd: As you no doubt know, some of the more sought after GRS surgeons are TS themselves. Yet, we seldom hear of "therapists" that are TG/TS. If "experience is truly the best teacher", we need more TG counselors to guide patients through the troubled waters you so clearly pointed out.
-- Nice job skylining the issues that far too many "therapists" are unable to advise their patients about!

[Stephenie S]

Dear Sejd,

I think you just got a lousy therapist. Really. Unless you are leaving stuff out, what you have told us borders on incompetence. OF COURSE you don't live in a vacuum. Of course you have family, friends, a job, and other responsibilities. What could she have been thinking?

Being "pushed" into transition is almost criminal. Some caregivers have lost their license to practice over things like this. I hope that others don't have to go through this.

BTW, hon, how's your music coming? I still remember that beautiful song you sung about the arctic.

Lovies,
Stephie

[Sejd]

Hi Stephie
that comment about my music really warms my heart. And to answer your question, my music is doing great. A year ago, I signed on with a life coach and it has resulted in a fantastic journey into the core of my musical aspirations. I have already performed more this past year than the ten years before and I like it. As to my therapist, yes, she had some real shortcomings, and I think she has caused damage to others as well. She was not at total disaster, and I learned a lot about myself and my trans gender soul, but I wish she had been more holistic in her practice. Luckily, I am 60 and I know how to think for myself also, so it's OK. I just don't want to see others go down the road of blinded individualism which can cause so much harm to someone who is otherwise in a fruitful relationship if you know what I mean.

[CharleneT]

JennyA --

I agree, hormones are not a good idea for you. I'm not sure if continuing the therapy is either - that's for you to decide. While the affects of HRT are a little more than a placebo, it does make sense that if you do not need them, then the risks are not worth the potential gain. Live your life the way you want, society will accept or not, there is very little you can do to alter that outcome.

[Avana]

Sejd: As you no doubt know, some of the more sought after GRS surgeons are TS themselves. Yet, we seldom hear of "therapists" that are TG/TS. If "experience is truly the best teacher", we need more TG counselors to guide patients through the troubled waters you so clearly pointed out.
-- Nice job skylining the issues that far too many "therapists" are unable to advise their patients about!

My counselor is TS.

Just had my endo and blood work done yesterday - if all goes well I'll have my prescription in a week :)

Basically there was no gate to speak of here in NYC. I paid $24 to go to one session with a counselor at the GIP (gender identity project) (i have 15 more yet in their program), which was based on my income, and then because I am under 25 years old, I was able to get free, expedited clinical services through Callen-Lorde Medical Center (trans specialized medical center here) at their mobile unit, where I got endo, bloodwork, and HIV/std screening. Next week I'll go and get my results and hopefully a prescription, and they'll teach me how to use the hormones and then I'm off, with check ups, of course.

[Kelsy]

Sejd,
Your comments have given me even more confidence that my therapist has the right approach.
From day one she began examining my interpersonal relationships and the impact that my
desired changes will have. Daphne always tempers my deep need to hurry the process with laying out
the possible repercussions of my choices. She is very careful with movin toward SRS and presents SRS as
only one of many options to deal with my dysphoria. She wants me well prepared and progressing with
my eyes wide open.
Avana,
Much like your medical facility, Fenway Health in Boston is a fantastic place for GLBT folks. I love it
There and my doctor is gorgeous ah I mean great!

[Kelsy]

Mutilating Gender
Dean Spade

Interesting read on this subject -

"the disciplinary power exercised by the gatekeepers (doctors, surgeons, psychiatrists, therapists) of SRS requires the repetitive, norm producing exercises to which Foucault refers. The “successful” (real life experience) daily performance of normative gender is a requirement for receiving authorization for body alteration.[27] Similarly, the successful recitation of the transsexual narrative in meeting after meeting with medical professionals, and in session after session with counselors and psychiatrists, is essential to obtaining such authorization."

[Aprilrain]

I like my therapist, I see her every other week and she charges $75 for an hour and a half. The first day she asked me the usual back ground questions, asked me about my family so on and so forth at the end of our session she asked me "so what do you want to do?" I sheepishly said that I thought I was "leaning" toward transition fully expecting a barrage of insults. Instead she said I have a better physique then most and that hormones would likely do a lot for me. I didn't mind waiting three month to make sure my desire for hormones didn't change. she recently ask me when I started full time, I thought, well I'm not out to my one of my kids nor my parents so I guess I'm not full time yet. She felt that since I was out everywhere else she considered that full time. Following the guidelines? Yes. Gatekeeper? No.
it seems to me that its worth waiting a year (not a very long time really) and letting the hormones work their magic, finding out who's with you and who's not, making new friends in your target gender, redefining the friendships you already have (this will happen), growing out your hair, learning about makeup if so inclined, not to mention for M to F TSes getting rid of facial hair F#@$ FACIAL HAIR!!! I declare war on facial hair! I am not a violent girl but if facial hair walks through my door I'm popping a cap in his ass! B@#$%^&*! Sorry I'm a little bitter, testosterone and all his little friends have had their way with me for long enough. OH NO I swore!, thats not gender normative I'm going to TS hell. Damn I did it again! some girls are just bad.

[Alicia Ryanne]

$75 for an hour and a half doesnt seem so bad :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Kelsy's recent post is interesting..and check out this link..
the quote doesnt tell the whole story..

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/2003/05/01/mutilating-gender/

The "true ts narrative" has done so much harm to so many...it was the big problem for me...until i found a good therapist, i was totally lost in my own head...i knew in my heart and soul, but my head only knew about the "narrative" which i never fit...
perhaps over the years it was a necessary evil to break through the medical communities own inability to accept and deal with our issue, but i think that the whole gatekeeper question is going away one transsexual at a time.

[Kelsy]

until i found a good therapist, i was totally lost in my own head...i knew in my heart and soul, but my head only knew about the "narrative" which i never fit...

Kaitlyn,
I went into therapy with a mind to be honest yet when questions about my past gender feelings came up
I could hear myself telling the truth about myself but at the same time thinking "maybe I should add some to my story" out of fear of being judged as less than I knew I was!! I didn't fit a strict transexual definition because My early gender feelings for me were difficult to define and as a child I was aloof, timid and,dependent. I wasn't about rock my survival boat so to speak.
My therapist took my honesty into account and evaluated everything I told her and came to the conclusion that I was indeed transsexual and she wasn't interested in some contrived narrative. I am non-conformist by nature and the thought of having to recite some T-mantra to get something was irksome when what I really wanted was some answers.

K

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you get what you put in when you talk about therapy... I'm glad you had some success..there are alot of folks that come to these forums and its the first time the run across people that havent memorized the narrative..

did your therapist ever say to you that you were transsexuals BEFORE you concluded it yourself?

[sandra-leigh]

I completely refused to recite the script. My first meeting with the doctor authorized to prescribe, I said clearly that I do not currently think of myself as being transsexual, and that if that meant that I couldn't have hormones, then I'd rather not have them. My life is not an Act or a Performance.

[Kelsy]

did your therapist ever say to you that you were transsexuals BEFORE you concluded it yourself?

I may have suspected that I could be transsexual but I wasn't sure and I never characterized my suspicions as such to Daphne. Her evaluations of my situation led her to her conclusions. I wasn't offering a false narrative and some of my history is nonconforming to the classic transsexual norm

[RachelDee]

*chimes in* :)

Just wanted to add something to this; it was mentioned that the RLE/RLT was a way to see if you were ready for the issues that would face you down this road. If you were able to cope with it, the reactions of people and so forth...

However, while I fully understand where ppl are coming from with this (it makes sense) there is something about it that I question.

If you are Gender Dysphoric, you are Gender Dysphoric right. Surley regardless of the outcome of a RLE/RLT you are still going to be facing gender issues, and issues that are strong enough to make u need to change genders.

If you dont do anything right now - later you probably will (and later is not always better). If you cannot cope with the reactions of other people/the problems with transition, isnt it a case of which option is the least painful?

Live with the dysphoria, or try and do something about it.

The requirement for being 'Gender Dysphoric' from what my therapist told me is pretty much that its not a symptom of any other mental disorder, and that you have had these feelings for at least 2 years. He does not require you to be living in role for any period of time before they recommend you for treatments etc. As long as you have given indications of transition - such as telling family/changing name etc.

But they deal with everyone on a personal basis, so as it was explained to me. Where I go from here, and how much I do is pretty much up to me and they will simply guide me. He pretty much said that I can take HRT and if I feel better and that works for me, I dont *have* to do more.

Now I am worried/scared over reactions of others. I am aiming at a full transition, and a problem I face with that is that I am a shy/underconfident/timid person by nature. :doh:

How am I going to cope with something that seems to take so much confidence and determination/inner strength? A therapist (non gender one) told me that there is some irony in there. Being what I am (shy/quiet/underconfident etc) and then facing such an issue that seems to require the exact opposite is something thats not going to be easy. But then, perhaps it will make me stronger. It's almost going to be like a crash course.

As i said I am worried/scared over what the future might bring in this regard (as well as all the other standard worries with transition) but I know that I am going to face these worries and fears no matter when I act. All I will be doing is putting it off, and I am already regretting 6 wasted years of trying to run away from this issue. I know not acting is not going to solve anything. If I go out and its horrible, peoples reactions are bad I know I will likley find myself in bits. But, I also know that if I do nothing, if I keep running away because of all the fear/difficulties/problems I could/will face, at some point I wont be able to cope at all, and I worry about what will happen then more.

[Rianna Humble]

it was mentioned that the RLE/RLT was a way to see if you were ready for the issues that would face you down this road. If you were able to cope with it, the reactions of people and so forth...

However, while I fully understand where ppl are coming from with this (it makes sense) there is something about it that I question.

If you are Gender Dysphoric, you are Gender Dysphoric right. Surley regardless of the outcome of a RLE/RLT you are still going to be facing gender issues, and issues that are strong enough to make u need to change genders.

If you dont do anything right now - later you probably will (and later is not always better). If you cannot cope with the reactions of other people/the problems with transition, isnt it a case of which option is the least painful?

In a lot of was you have summed up quite well what people get from the RLE with that last sentence.

Although probably quite rare, there are some people who get a bit caught up with the idea of transitioning but when they come to live the life and socialise and work 24/7 as a woman find that they cannot take it. For them, complete transition would be a disaster and living with a sense of something not being right is the less painful option.

It may even be that periodic cross-dressing is all that a person in that situation needs to cope with their gender but that a combination of the "pink fog" and unrealistic expectations of what life as a woman would be like had pushed them too far too fast.

Wouldn't you agree that it is better for someone such as I have described to find out their mistake through the RLE rather than to press ahead with surgery only for that to make them permanently depressed?


Now I am worried/scared over reactions of others. I am aiming at a full transition, and a problem I face with that is that I am a shy/underconfident/timid person by nature.

How am I going to cope with something that seems to take so much confidence and determination/inner strength? A therapist (non gender one) told me that there is some irony in there. Being what I am (shy/quiet/underconfident etc) and then facing such an issue that seems to require the exact opposite is something thats not going to be easy.

You will probably find that many of us were quite shy and lacking in self-confidence precisely because of our Gender Dysphoria. The fact that you are worried about what you are aiming to do is one of the best indications that you are not just rushing into it because it seems like a good thing to try.

People keep telling me that I am brave to have come out publicly and to have begun my transition. I did not understand what they meant until I read a definition of brave as being afraid of what you are about to do but going ahead with it regardless of the fears.

[sandra-leigh]

Being what I am (shy/quiet/underconfident etc) and then facing such an issue that seems to require the exact opposite is something thats not going to be easy. But then, perhaps it will make me stronger.

I'm pretty shy. In person I'm usually fairly quiet, which is a combination of listening to what other people have to say, and not wanting to force my opinions on to others. I am under-confident about a fair number of aspects of "life". On the other hand, put me in front of a crowd of people and name a topic I know something about professionally and I can give an ad-hoc hour-long lecture and run out of time. There are some things I rate myself quite highly on... but knowledge of Where I Am Going With All Of This is not one of them!



People keep telling me that I am brave to have come out publicly and to have begun my transition. I did not understand what they meant until I read a definition of brave as being afraid of what you are about to do but going ahead with it regardless of the fears.

My General Practitioner tells me most times how "brave" I am, how courageous I am, to explore gender. I suspect that sometimes I outright roll my eyes when he says those things. Bravery doesn't have much to do with it: I'm doing what I have to do. Though from the point of view of my GP, he is right, in that he thinks being TG is a choice -- well, yeh, if it is a choice, then considering my anxieties, Sure going ahead with it would be bravery... but it isn't a choice with me.

[Kathryn Martin]

I have several thoughts to the subject of RLE and the gatekeepers. I was fortunate in that I have a fantastic Clinical Psychologist who recommended Hormones after she understood that this was a process that would happen for me. I have received hormone treatment through my GP and will only now after seven months have a consultation with an endocrinologist because I had some questions. I have started RLE one week ago and completely out and working as Kathryn.

There is not much more than what has been said about the RLE. Most aspects have been covered. The real issue is that two things are confirmed. Firstly, are there any co-morbidity issues that are underlying the desire to be in a different gender other than GID and secondly, has the person proven to themselves that they can sustain a life in a different gender and reasonably succeed. The accompanying therapy through RLE is necessary for the care giver to provide a comprehensive assessment and recommendation for surgery more than treatment which usually by that time has been ongoing for some time. The issues that we need to be able to deal with are can we be reasonably attractive as a person (not as a gender) so that we can maintain social relationships, and can we withstand adversity of dealing with being a transgendered person in the workplace. If you can withstand RLE then there is little reason not to have surgery.

I just had my first week of full on professional work as Kathryn. I know, and I have known that this is the right decision and this will be nothing but good. (Which does not mean that I was not very nervous this week).

[Kaitlyn Michele]

*chimes in* :)

Just wanted to add something to this; it was mentioned that the RLE/RLT was a way to see if you were ready for the issues that would face you down this road. If you were able to cope with it, the reactions of people and so forth...

However, while I fully understand where ppl are coming from with this (it makes sense) there is something about it that I question.

If you are Gender Dysphoric, you are Gender Dysphoric right. Surley regardless of the outcome of a RLE/RLT you are still going to be facing gender issues, and issues that are strong enough to make u need to change genders.

If you dont do anything right now - later you probably will (and later is not always better). If you cannot cope with the reactions of other people/the problems with transition, isnt it a case of which option is the least painful?

Live with the dysphoria, or try and do something about it.

The requirement for being 'Gender Dysphoric' from what my therapist told me is pretty much that its not a symptom of any other mental disorder, and that you have had these feelings for at least 2 years. He does not require you to be living in role for any period of time before they recommend you for treatments etc. As long as you have given indications of transition - such as telling family/changing name etc.

But they deal with everyone on a personal basis, so as it was explained to me. Where I go from here, and how much I do is pretty much up to me and they will simply guide me. He pretty much said that I can take HRT and if I feel better and that works for me, I dont *have* to do more.

Now I am worried/scared over reactions of others. I am aiming at a full transition, and a problem I face with that is that I am a shy/underconfident/timid person by nature. :doh:

How am I going to cope with something that seems to take so much confidence and determination/inner strength? A therapist (non gender one) told me that there is some irony in there. Being what I am (shy/quiet/underconfident etc) and then facing such an issue that seems to require the exact opposite is something thats not going to be easy. But then, perhaps it will make me stronger. It's almost going to be like a crash course.

As i said I am worried/scared over what the future might bring in this regard (as well as all the other standard worries with transition) but I know that I am going to face these worries and fears no matter when I act. All I will be doing is putting it off, and I am already regretting 6 wasted years of trying to run away from this issue. I know not acting is not going to solve anything. If I go out and its horrible, peoples reactions are bad I know I will likley find myself in bits. But, I also know that if I do nothing, if I keep running away because of all the fear/difficulties/problems I could/will face, at some point I wont be able to cope at all, and I worry about what will happen then more.

In all honesty, I feel that when I read your posts that you will have no problem at all with living as a woman if that's what you want to do... that's just an observation
Being shy and afraid is normal and many of us share your feelings of these things.
no one can promise that everything will work out..if i can parse out what you are really afraid of , you seem to worry that your fears and shyness will lead you to give up on your RLE ..which you think would be
the wrong conclusion and cause you to give up on transitioning..

the interesting thing you are missing here is this....if you go out and do RLE and you hate it because you are a nervous wreck, then you stop....you will find out for sure about your GID at this point.....this is exactly what a friend of mine did...she was so nervous and anxious and scared...she got facial surgery before even trying to ever go out as a woman...she did RLE for six weeks and was a nervous wreck...she stopped...she cut her hair...etc...she actually had to call her boss and say she was going back to male mode...!!! Well that lasted for about 5 weeks and ended with a bathtub suicide attempt...later on she told me that she "KNEW" more about herself after giving up RLE ...that she never felt more sure of her femaleness until after giving up RLE, and that she was secretly continuing her HRT .....

How interesting! All this is to say that if you take the broadest view of RLE...it is a test....but its under your control, and your RESPONSIBILITY to yourself is to go out there ..collect the data (yes i'm a mathemetician) and make the best decision for you..that's regardless of rules, regardless of caregivers opinions...its up to you...totally, completely, utterly up to you...and that's the scary part...not RLE itself......

one caveat to all this is i don't know how the UK system works..i know in the US you can doctor and therapist shop, even online to get what you need but i'm not sure that's possible in the UK..perhaps in the UK it is more difficult to do this more on your own...

[RachelDee]

Wouldn't you agree that it is better for someone such as I have described to find out their mistake through the RLE rather than to press ahead with surgery only for that to make them permanently depressed?

Oh yes, definatly. However I just dont see how its any indication of treatment if say someone is unable to live as they desire because the social pressures are too much. It seems like a person living with GID is going to be inherently damaged in some way - depressed/isolated/and various other issues that result. So asking them to go live as female for X amount of time to see how it goes, without any prep or treatment seems rigged to fail them.

I can honestly say that personally, I dont have any expectations of what it would be like to be female, other than it would be to live how I feel I need to (and want). I don't think it will be easier/better/magical or anything. Girls have just as many social hurdles as males, just different ones. And they also have the advantage of being born female (I do not).

I can't say that I am much of a crossdresser. Its infrequent, unimportant. Clothes do not change who/what you are - I do like makeup though. It has a very big impact on a face and def makes a big difference. I do so much so want to be able to wear female clothes I like and see (but know that right now, id look hideious and feel just as much so! so no point)

The main thing about RLE that worries me is if I am not ready, if I get attacked/shouted at etc or otherwise harassed. If I end up feeling that I am not passing (sorry I know some people dislike that term) and feel I have to give up for that reason. Just so I can live my life day to day without issue. That would be a very depressing situation, and how would I deal with it.

But eitherway, its something I will never know until I try. If I end up on HRT for 6 months, try RLE and fail horrifically and feel depressed and want to give up..... well it will have been a lesson at least. And if that happens I hope its one that helps me move forward (if thats to try again, or to decide that living with the dysphoria is the least painful).

I think its a bit like how the only way you really learn what "hot" means, is when you burn your fingers.

Also thanks Kaitlyn, I know I post around a lot at times (mostly ramblings on fear/insecurities etc). I don't think I will have any issues at all living as female from a personal pov, because nothing will change - I will just feel happier (I hope) being myself. When it comes to facing strangers and social situations, I of course have reservations and will just have to face those when the time comes.

I always try to "fade" into the background, not be noticed. Just get on with what I am doing and hope no one notices me, its the only way I feel comfortable. Yet at the same time, it also makes me feel isolated. Unless I am VERY VERY lucky, I am not going to blend in if I try to project 'female' so my goals are mostly to try and border on androgynous/female-side while out and about. At least at first, if for nothing but to avoid being hassled. When it comes to more personal situations (job? courses? family) well hopefully will be more able to be how I want.

I have pondered if I should be going for stealth, or should not try to hide what I am. In peoples experiences, what is best?

[sandra-leigh]

But eitherway, its something I will never know until I try. If I end up on HRT for 6 months, try RLE and fail horrifically and feel depressed and want to give up..... well it will have been a lesson at least. And if that happens I hope its one that helps me move forward (if thats to try again, or to decide that living with the dysphoria is the least painful).

Exactly right. I got to the point where I had to know what HRT would do to me. If it didn't work out, if I couldn't stand the drugs for some medical reason, if I was one of the people who it ended up depressing instead of helping: those were all acceptable outcomes compared to my need to try.

[Rianna Humble]

However I just dont see how its any indication of treatment if say someone is unable to live as they desire because the social pressures are too much. It seems like a person living with GID is going to be inherently damaged in some way - depressed/isolated/and various other issues that result.

It seems to me that if a person can't live in the new gender role, then this is a good indicator to the healthcare/support professionals of the sort of treatment that they need to help overcome the Gender Dysphoria.

If we skip the RLE and go direct to surgery, then we lose the opportunity to address the issues that would make it difficult for someone to live their new gender.



So asking them to go live as female for X amount of time to see how it goes, without any prep or treatment seems rigged to fail them.

Remember that the start of the RLE is fixed not by some arbitrary measure, but by the patient. Some wait until hormones have kicked in, some want FFS before they start and others can't survive long enough to wait for things like that.


I can't say that I am much of a crossdresser. Its infrequent, unimportant. Clothes do not change who/what you are - I do like makeup though. It has a very big impact on a face and def makes a big difference. I do so much so want to be able to wear female clothes I like and see (but know that right now, id look hideious and feel just as much so! so no point)

The main thing about RLE that worries me is if I am not ready, if I get attacked/shouted at etc or otherwise harassed. If I end up feeling that I am not passing (sorry I know some people dislike that term) and feel I have to give up for that reason. Just so I can live my life day to day without issue. That would be a very depressing situation, and how would I deal with it.

Since you set the start point for RLE, why would you choose to start before you felt ready?

Unfortunately, we do not live in an ideal world and we do get pointed at, have snide comments made and some get attacked for who we are. Others get hurtful remarks plastered all over the national gutter press, but we survive.

Sooner or later, if you are going to transition, you will have to start living in your new gender, only you can decide when you are ready for that, but your reaction to the RLE will help the professionals give you the level of support that you need.

[RachelDee]

Since you set the start point for RLE, why would you choose to start before you felt ready?

Sorry I was going by the system as it has been explained to me here with the NHS, where they will offer you no treatments (including HRT) until you have been living in role for at least 3 months (and be in some kind of employment/community scheme or something for that time.

I am lucky that I have been able to afford to see someone privatly, but its not like I am rolling in money (I am not!) and I am saving like mad to try and pay for things that are going to be essential (facial hair removal for example.....) not just the therapy and/or medication. I want to get on the NHS system but the funding priority is apparently low for this kind of thing (what my GP said) and she thought seeing someone privatley and getting a diagnosis (and a letter) would boost the chances of her getting it from the PCT. For the moment, I am kinda drifting doing my own thing. My GP cant really offer me much at the moment, just blood tests.

A disadvantage of living way out of major towns I guess.