Why does modern society have a problem with Crossdressers?

[Christine 2]

This term is thought to apply only to Men who Dress as Women. But in the real World, there are more Women who dress as men. Remember trouser suits which started the trend of Women going to work dressed as Men?

I feel a great injustice for Crossdressers

[TxKimberly]

Christine, I think that a lot of us assume that society has a problem with us. I have traveled all over the country cross dressed for the last five or six years and have met with very little but smiles and a great attitude. If you head out the door assuming that you will meet with hostility, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Head out the door assuming that this is your life, and you are free to live it as you please, and that people will behave like adults, and you just might be surprised. :)

[flic]

I have to agree with Kimberley, smile at the world and the world will smile back. Don't hastily condemn all of society into a pit of intolerance, and don't forget that in reality, a lot of people really don't know all that much about people on the transgender spectrum. I'm presuming just from the sheer presence of TG people online that there are an awful lot of us globally, and yet most people in the street would think they've never met a TG person. Most of my friends would have said the same before i told them about myself, and yet each and every one of them in their own way, has been fine, and more importantly, our friendships have all come out the other side the same or stronger. So although the world can seem like an intolerant and cruel place, in reality there are a lot of people out there who don't know enough about us. Education, education, education!

x Flic x

[KrystalA]

I once over heard two guys in a restaurant. The first guy said "Society won't give me a break". The second guy said "Don't expect society, or anyone to 'give' you a break. You've gotta make your own breaks". I thought that was good advice.

[BeckyAnderson]

Kimberly is 100% correct. I've been to almost every conceivable venue in my limited travels and I have never really come across anything but good experiences. One simply has to have a positive attitude and be proud of who they are. It seems as though a persons confidence spills out and into those around them. Hugs, Becky

[christinac]

There is still some old school prejudices out there in certain areas, but it is no where near as bad as it used to be. A lot of the old schoolers like the WW2 crowd for example are passing away and thier ideas and intolerance about crossdressing and etc. are going to the grave with them.

The crossdressers very own attitude and how they conduct thierself is becoming more governor of tolerence and intolerence in the world today.

[Gillian Gigs]

FEAR, is probably one of the biggest problems. People generally fear what they do not understand. Another problem is the homophobia of so many men, and there thinking that crossdressing is related to the CD trying to seduce them. In there ignorance, they assume the wrong motive when they like what they see, and then lash out at the other person for the wrong reasons. When women wore those trouser suits, they still looked like women, most CD's are trying to look there best and the best means looking like a woman, which confuses the the onlooker. Men are very visual in how they precieve things, so looking their best is the goal of a CD, and looking at a woman is sexually gratifying, hence the confusion. Is there a simple answer to how to change this, No unless you can get men to stop lusting after women with there eyes, Goodluck!

[Rita C.]

As Becky says, Kimberly is totaly correct. Its all in your mind, just go out with a open mind and dont worry about other people, just be your self. For you are out there to be you and not to get other people O.K. to be a crossdresser And if some one has problem, it there problem, not yours.

[Katesback]

Society has a problem with crossdressers because as a whole they have problems with themselves. They see thier behavior as negative, wrong, deviant, ect. ect.
They Hide in the closet and it is extremely rare to see a crossdresser in the real world.

Because of this WHY the hell would you expect society to accept this behavior? I mean REALLy.

[KarenCDFL]

Most common folk have a problem with anything that is away from the societal norm and of course anything that is different than themselves.

This also figures in that these same people have very low self esteem and it is so much easier to hurt someone else to make themselves feel that they are better then the people they hurt.

Maybe I did learn something in psych 101!

[kym]

Kate is correct, when our behavior appears negative, then we will be feared and misunderstood when in reality it is society in general with the issue and not us. When a person has a negative attitude or deviant leanings themselves, then anyone who does not appear "normal" to them is, in their opinion, wrong and to be feared. Now in truth what is normal? Is it females wearing mens clothes and telling the world that they are not crossdressing? Is it gay people saying to the world"this is me, deal with it or not!"? Maybe we should adopt the same attitude and shock the world into seeing us as normal, or maybe we sould act like the women we either are or want to be and let the acceptance come as it may.

[Pythos]

It is pure and simple. Many parts of society for all intents and purposes have yet to become modern. As long as there is a disparity for women in the workplace, or other such things. As long as men are still viewed as the superior of the species (a big load of bunk as far as I can see), then a man taking on fem characteristics to most any degree is less than a man and subject to ridicule.
Most cders I know of including myself ARE positive. Most do nothing to anyone, and yet are the victims of some heinous beatings, and such. Certainly not a large percentage though meet such fates. But the media makes it seem that way.

It also helps not one witt when women get "turned" off when a guy takes on any little bit that is considered feminine. Just go onto google and search, you will find throngs of women that want to have everything, and yet have the attitude of "not my man" when it comes to "their man" wearing feminine garments.

[PetiteDuality]

You are right. People has no issues with CDs, as long they are street peasants. I think I could go out dressed however I want to. The problem is not society.

But with close dear ones, it's a bit different. And I don't think it's their fault. They didn't sign in to this. I kept it hidden.

[Katesback]

First of all I said trans people as a rule do not see thier own behavior as acceptable. How can I say that? Just freaking read the countless posts on here for a start.

As far as woman wanting a man to act like a man. I dont blame them. I would want my man to act like a man as well. I doubt I would date a CD. I know all to well what many are like and it often turns into a constant battle for him to be happy and that means I would have to cave to his requests otherwise he would be miserable. Do I want to deal with that? Hell no. Finally I know all to well that a surprising number of CDs are really TS and have yet to admit it or accept it. Thats a big risk for a woman to take on because I once again want a man. If I wanted a TS I would look for one but then that would probably be a big mess as well LOL.




It is pure and simple. Many parts of society for all intents and purposes have yet to become modern. As long as there is a disparity for women in the workplace, or other such things. As long as men are still viewed as the superior of the species (a big load of bunk as far as I can see), then a man taking on fem characteristics to most any degree is less than a man and subject to ridicule.

Katesback, there you go again, hasty generalizations. Most cders I know of including myself ARE positive. Most do nothing to anyone, and yet are the victims of some heinous beatings, and such. Certainly not a large percentage though meet such fates. But the media makes it seem that way.

It also helps not one witt when women get "turned" off when a guy takes on any little bit that is considered feminine. Just go onto google and search, you will find throngs of women that want to have everything, and yet have the attitude of "not my man" when it comes to "their man" wearing feminine garments.

[Kate Lynn]

Most common folk have a problem with anything that is away from the societal norm and of course anything that is different than themselves.

This also figures in that these same people have very low self esteem and it is so much easier to hurt someone else to make themselves feel that they are better then the people they hurt.

Maybe I did learn something in psych 101!

What is societal norm?

I always thought normal was what suits each individual,and thats what I see as societies problem with crossdressers or anyone who is different from them,it's their individuality society has a problem with.

[dawnmarrie1961]

This term is thought to apply only to Men who Dress as Women. But in the real World, there are more Women who dress as men. Remember trouser suits which started the trend of Women going to work dressed as Men?

I feel a great injustice for Cross dressers

Christine, Nobody ever promised that the playing field was going to be level in life. As to the question "Why does modern society have a problem with Cross dressers?" I can only speculate upon an answer. Perhaps it is because of all the misinformation that is abundantly available on the INTERNET and on TV. People tend to believe the garbage that is out there. I also think that some of society's problem is related to fear of personal freedom issues. Society is all about conformity and fitting in. It sees us as a round peg trying to fit in a square hole. Logically it won't fit. But we make ourselves fit and that scares them because they unconsciously want that freedom too but are afraid to ask for it for fear of being separated from the group that provides them with identity,purpose and stablitiy in there lives.

[Michelle James]

Christine, I think that a lot of us assume that society has a problem with us. I have traveled all over the country cross dressed for the last five or six years and have met with very little but smiles and a great attitude. If you head out the door assuming that you will meet with hostility, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Head out the door assuming that this is your life, and you are free to live it as you please, and that people will behave like adults, and you just might be surprised. :)

Well once again I agree with you 100%. That has been my experience as well.

[Christine 2]

There are women dressed as men, without problems,
thought to apply only to Men who Dress as Women
there is an imbalance in the societal norm

[BeckyAnderson]

I think most woman dress in styles that appear to be for men BUT it is simply a style of dress to them. Most don't dress like that to emulate men. If more men wore feminine style articles then, eventually, society would see that as a style for men. I don't necessarily mean that, out of the gate, every man should go to work in a dress but wearing items like fancier jewelry (getting their ears pierced, pretty bracelets and rings), feminine colors, shoes with a heel over 1/2", take care of their nails and, at least use clear polish, more fragrant aftershaves and deodorants, etc. These are very small changes in male appearance but over time, perhaps, society would come around. Geez, sounds a bit like the UNISEX trend from years ago!!! :D Oops....showing my age again....:drink: Hugs, Becky

[Julogden]

There are women dressed as men, without problems,
thought to apply only to Men who Dress as Women
there is an imbalance in the societal norm

Let's not go there. That's not an accurate assessment at all. Most females who wear what you're thinking of as men's clothes are NOT dressed as men. I'll agree that females do have way more freedom when choosing what to wear without experiencing societal disapproval, but they are not dressed as men, nor are they crossdressers unless they are deliberately trying to look male.

I agree with the other opinions here: it's a different world than it was not too long ago. We need to just get out there and show people that we're among them and are not a threat to anyone.

And Kate brought up a really important point that I totally agree with: if anyone has gender identity issues, they really need to work on them and figure out who they are before getting into a serious relationship. Working on gender stuff after getting married or while in an equivalent unmarried relationship isn't fair to one's SO, and makes everything WAY more difficult for the person working out their gender issues. Once you have things figured out, be honest with potential spouses and only get involved with someone who loves you because of who you are rather than someone who loves you in spite of who you are. It seems that most CD's end up with, if lucky, someone who tolerates them and there's always some degree of resentment on the part of the SO towards their husband's/SO's gender issues.

But I know for a fact that there are some females who would enjoy having CD spouses, there are some here in these forums, and I've encountered them in other places. I suspect their numbers are higher than we think, but they too are afraid of "coming out" for the same reasons that many TG people are, mainly that they'll experience ridicule and other societal "punishment".

I do have to disagree with the part of Katesback statement that more-or-less implies that all women want their men to be men. There are clearly exceptions to that broad generalization, uncommon thought they may be.

Carol

[christina s]

Coming from the other side I believe it has to deal with how most men are raised into this homophobic culture . They're scared of what they don't understand and they believe all men should be trying to be the definition alpha male .

Using this thread as an example . (Its an old thread don't bump it )
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=130337753

[sissystephanie]

Women wearing trouser suits are wearing clothes that were designed for women, which is not crossdressing! Men who wear dresses or skirts are wearing clothes designed for women, which definitely is crossdressing!

The problem, as TXKimberly said, is that too many of us CD's look for problems!! As she said, if you go out the door thinking that you are totally in the right, you will be. People may look at you, but that is all they will do. Most people won't even look!! I walk around all over wearing feminine clothes with no wig and no makeup and rarely even get 2nd looks! I will say it again....most people don't care!!

[TxKimberly]

OK - GOTTA rant about that!


Coming from the other side I believe it has to deal with how most men are raised into this homophobic culture . They're scared of what they don't understand and they believe all men should be trying to be the definition alpha male .

Using this thread as an example . (Its an old thread don't bump it )
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=130337753

"That thread" appears designed to irritate people. It's in a weightlifting / fitness forum and the post has nothing to with either.
Someone went to a forum geared toward the macho types and kept making creepy offers to post crossdressing pics. If he had asked the women there what exercises or work outs he could do to help build a body closer to a womans ideal, at least then there would have been some sort of point, some sort of justification for posting in that forum. But no, he was only offering to show a bunch of male weight lifters his cross dressed photos. What the hell? That made as much sense as a weight lifter coming here and bragging about how much he could lift and how many reps he could do.
With people doing weird crap like that, it would hardly be surprising that some people might get the impression we are freaks.
If you ask me, "CrossDresserGuy" just went out of his way to make sure people think we are freaks. Thanks ever so much . . .

[James Kaon]

Interesting points about how you hold yourself if you go out dressed - with confidence and a non aggressive attitude, people will probably just give a double take, nothing more. Maybe they would mention it to someone, maybe not but it comes down to a perception thing really. Although I am sure there are the few out there who would want to make an issue or argument if they see a crossdresser, the ones that do are usually the kind who look for trouble, whether it is someone they see crossdressing or someone outside the norm or just because they are assholes. Its a numbers game too - if more crossdressed, then tolerance or perceived tolerance at least, would increase.

Yes its true that woman have more options than guys in that there is less chance to be noticed as being different, but agree with Julogden - they are not generally trying to present or look like a man, unless THAT is their intention. You are a crossdresser if you dress in clothes that are designed for the opposite sex. Since not many (at least that I know of) do then there will always be a feeling of isolation until it is more commonly known, understood and seen. I think. :)

I just got back from long day at work so cant even reread what I have written to make sure it makes sense, so Ill just hope and hit the post reply button.

Jx

[christina s]

OK - GOTTA rant about that!



"That thread" appears designed to irritate people. It's in a weightlifting / fitness forum and the post has nothing to with either.
Someone went to a forum geared toward the macho types and kept making creepy offers to post crossdressing pics. If he had asked the women there what exercises or work outs he could do to help build a body closer to a womans ideal, at least then there would have been some sort of point, some sort of justification for posting in that forum. But no, he was only offering to show a bunch of male weight lifters his cross dressed photos. What the hell? That made as much sense as a weight lifter coming here and bragging about how much he could lift and how many reps he could do.
With people doing weird crap like that, it would hardly be surprising that some people might get the impression we are freaks.
If you ask me, "CrossDresserGuy" just went out of his way to make sure people think we are freaks. Thanks ever so much . . .

I'm not going to stick up for that person because i do agree with you to an extent , i was just using that as an example of how most guys are scared of anything that derives the "typical alpha male" look.

But i should of given a heads up just because that websites focus is bodybuilding the misc subsection they literally will bring up topics on everything and most people there aren't even interested in lifting .

[Stephenie S]

I don't think that it is MODERN society that has a problem with TG/CD folk. I think it's left over from the 50s and 60s. I find that most contemporary people just don't care at all what you wear.

S

[Jannine]

Here in Aus, we have recently celebrated fashion week, mainly put on by the big retail chains and hugely popular. A sensation this fashion season has been a tall slim doe-eyed blonde from the backblocks of Melbourne named Andrej Pejic, who originated from war-torn Boznia-Hertzagovnia with his family. Andrej is male, and has shot to fame all over the world modelling female clothing. With strikingly good female looks to die for, he has strutted the major catwalks of Paris to raptous applause from all those involved in the fashion industry. So where does that leave us, girlfriends ??
Need I say more....

Jannine. XXX

[Jessica Who]

Society has made leaps and bounds with regards to crossdressing. Sure, it's not perfect, but I'd venture to say that you'll be safe in most places if you use common sense.

[TxKimberly]

Here in Aus, we have recently celebrated fashion week, mainly put on by the big retail chains and hugely popular. A sensation this fashion season has been a tall slim doe-eyed blonde from the backblocks of Melbourne named Andrej Pejic, who originated from war-torn Boznia-Hertzagovnia with his family. Andrej is male, and has shot to fame all over the world modelling female clothing. With strikingly good female looks to die for, he has strutted the major catwalks of Paris to raptous applause from all those involved in the fashion industry. So where does that leave us, girlfriends ??
Need I say more....

Jannine. XXX

I've heard of him (her?). :-)

[VeronicaMoonlit]

This term is thought to apply only to Men who Dress as Women. But in the real World, there are more Women who dress as men. Remember trouser suits which started the trend of Women going to work dressed as Men?

I feel a great injustice for Crossdressers


Let's not go there. That's not an accurate assessment at all. Most females who wear what you're thinking of as men's clothes are NOT dressed as men. I'll agree that females do have way more freedom when choosing what to wear without experiencing societal disapproval, but they are not dressed as men, nor are they crossdressers unless they are deliberately trying to look male.

The first thought in my head was "Not again!" Did the original poster not read this recent thread?

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?150664-We-are-not-crossdressers.....and-we-get-fed-up-of-being-told-we-are


I agree with the other opinions here: it's a different world than it was not too long ago.

Indeed!


if anyone has gender identity issues, they really need to work on them and figure out who they are before getting into a serious relationship.

Yes, I've said that for years.

Veronica

[Fab Karen]

Christine, I think that a lot of us assume that society has a problem with us. I have traveled all over the country cross dressed for the last five or six years and have met with very little but smiles and a great attitude. If you head out the door assuming that you will meet with hostility, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Head out the door assuming that this is your life, and you are free to live it as you please, and that people will behave like adults, and you just might be surprised. :):yt: My experience has been that most people don't care if they read you.

tangent: if you're a frequent flyer like Kim, opt for the groping if they want you to do the radiation-porn-device, to avoid repeated radiation exposure. Explanation doesn't inspire confidence: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/03/tsa-radiation-test-bungling/

And let's not continue the absurdity of calling women wearing what they like crossdressing if it involves pants. Wear what you want and BE A MAN ABOUT IT.:)

"as a whole they have problems with themselves"
I would NEVER say anything like TS's as a whole... let's not damn everyone with one brush. People are individuals.

[juno]

tangent: if you're a frequent flyer like Kim, opt for the groping if they want you to do the radiation-porn-device, to avoid repeated radiation exposure.

Don't worry about the X-ray exposure. You will generally get more from the flight itself due to the high altitude's lack of atmospheric shielding. Flight attendant is a job with one of highest levels of radiation exposure. (A good argument for a decent high-speed rail system in the US?)

As for acceptance of diverse male attire, we all just need to get out more so that people get used to it.

[Jennie1975]

Ok I have read through both pages of responses and can't hold my tongue anymore.

1. Women wearing mens clothes don't do anything to hide their breast, wear false facial hair, change their behavior to appear more masculine, or go by a different name.

2. If its about wearing female clothes go ahead sans the make up, tucking, wigs, different name, etc.

3. If in fact you consider yourself just a Crossdresser and not TG why all the post about how do I do this or that to "appear" more like a woman?

4. I noticed 99.999% of you all have female names on this forum, if you wanted to be a crossdresser and protect you identity why would you have not just choosen a fake male name?

I know for myself I started wearing the clothes and it set off a trigger in my mind that I had suppressed for years and at every step so far I have told myself and others "oh its just this or that". When I finally accepted myself for myself and did not put limits on what I do is when people treated me as a person. Which it sounds to me as what the OP is searching for. As for me I am fullblown transitioning MTF. And wearing my clothes is the same as everyone elses. I still put my jeans on one leg at a time.

Jennifer

[Frédérique]

This term is thought to apply only to Men who Dress as Women. But in the real World, there are more Women who dress as men. Remember trouser suits which started the trend of Women going to work dressed as Men?

I get really tired reading about this TIRED topic – if you dislike the idea of women wearing pants, or if you detect some type of malicious injustice (as it pertains to crossdressing), just say so, OK? I don’t care WHAT women wear – it has nothing to do with why I wear women’s clothing, nor does it fuel my own quest for femininity, or whatever you wish to call it, since clothing is, or can be, a form of expression. I’ve NEVER thought of women wearing clothes designed for women, yet having their counterpart or inspiration in male attire, as a form of crossdressing. Can we embrace the idea of practicality, please? Can we at least allow women to try to keep warm and enclosed and secure, rather than under-dressed, vulnerable and insecure, all with an eye towards long-denied equality? There’s a reason why men dress the way they do – why can’t women do the same? Welcome to the 21st century – get real…
:straightface:


And let's not continue the absurdity of calling women wearing what they like crossdressing if it involves pants. Wear what you want and BE A MAN ABOUT IT.

That’s the correct word – ABSURD! :hmph:

[Emma England]

When I wear skirts in public as a man, I do not consider myself crossdressing, but dressing to be comfortable.

[TGMarla]

Coming from the other side I believe it has to deal with how most men are raised into this homophobic culture . They're scared of what they don't understand and they believe all men should be trying to be the definition alpha male.

I have to agree with this. Sure, there are all the other arguments, like "people don't really care" and "we do it to ourselves", etc.....but the fact is people really do have a problem with this. Just like the asinine comments on the body building site that was referred to earlier, there is a rampant ingrained homophobia in much of our society, and we get lumped into it for whatever reason. The only way to rise above it is to ignore it and go about our business as though there is nothing wrong. Like all things, it works itself out over time. Sometimes, it's a looooong time.

[Joanne f]

Women wear trouser suits made for women therefore they are NOT cross dressing , most male cross dressers wear a bra, wig and anything they can to present as a woman , there is a big difference .
You would have to dress on equal terms to make that argument work ( in my opinion)

[marissa_sissy]

It is just such a tough deal, and I live in a tough working class city, where the attitude on this is not exactly positive.

Its funny, but there is still a real societal struggle going on with men in womens clothes. Yet, a woman can walk around in mans clothes, and nobody even looks twice.

I do have an example, and it was outlined by me in another thread. A few years ago Dianne Keaton wore a tux and essentially dressed like a man to the Oscars, and was on the cover of dozens of magazines, being called a fashion visionary, and all of this. She was lauded for taking a chance, and crossing into a unique boundary, etc.

Yet, David Carradine, who did a lot for this world including endorsing an entire way of life and martial art, and several human projects, dies in a hotel room. News agencies everywhere focused on but one thing on the man. The fact that he had a closet full of skimpy, tarty lingerie and fishnet stockings that he had been wearing. The radio stations in Edmonton had a field day, and could not find one nice thing to say about the guy, except that (gasp) he wore womens underwear in the privacy of his own home.

It is just a fact. If a woman dresses as a man she is bold and trendy. If a man dresses as a woman, he is kinky and perverted. It is the societal double standard de jour. Why?

Your guess is a s good as mine. But where I live, I am too afraid of someone acting like a weirdo redneck to me, or seeing someone I know, as I have lived here all of my life. (Edmonton) My wife although extremely supportive and wonderful, likely would not be caught dead with me. Although I am considering going out on Halloween, which is a day when I can dress, and not really worry about the repercussions. I think this year, I will find a way to dress and go out on that day.

[Sandra]

It is just a fact. If a woman dresses as a man she is bold and trendy.

I've kept out if this, I think most of you know my views on this and I have to say that the above comment is crap. Just becasue a woman wears pants/trousers she is NOT dressing as a man, she is not presenting as a man, unless of course it's an FtM...but hey why waste my breath !!!!!!!




If a man dresses as a woman, he is kinky and perverted.



Some people do have this thought and it is wrong. People who think like this just don't understand the community and need educating.

[Jannine]

It is just a fact. If a woman dresses as a man she is bold and trendy. If a man dresses as a woman, he is kinky and perverted. It is the societal double standard de jour. Why?

That statement is certainly NOT crap.
What WAS meant by this is that women dress in this fashion to make purely a FASHION statement. It has NOTHING to do with dressing as a man, wanting to be a man or to be like a man. End of story. She is merely following trends and if it makes her feel empowered, then may the force be with her!!!!

As for the rest of this thread, who cares if it has been all said before???
As I see it, debate is the mainstay of this forum, (any debate, about anything) and to have fresh opinions about whatever can only serve to make this a more interesting place for old as well as newer members.

Jannine. XX

[Rianna Humble]

There are women dressed as men, without problems,
thought to apply only to Men who Dress as Women
there is an imbalance in the societal norm

PLEASE!! NOT THAT OLD CHESTNUT AGAIN!

If tyou think that Female to Male cross-dressing does not pose a problem, go across to the FtM section and tell them that they are only imagining the rejection, scorn and hatred that they get heaped upon them. Isn't it bad enough that people who are ignorant of gender issues do that to them without members of this forum belittling their experiences in this way.

And before you say that they don't count, or you were talking about cis-women threads like that abound in these forums and quite rightly offend the GG's who come here to support us. Just because women wear clothes designed and tailored for women but which bear a vague resemblance to clothes traditionally worn by men, this does not mean that they are cross dressing.

It's as bad as saying that men in kilts are cross-dressing.

There are some unisex garments such as tee shirts which are often trotted out as an illustration of women wearing clothes designed and tailored for men. Guess what? I cal that Bovine Scatology!

If you have a problem with not being accepted when you as a man choose to wear clothes designed and tailored for women, please don't blame it on women who wear women's clothes and please do not treat our FtM brethren as if their problems do not exist or do not count.

[Stephanie47]

I try to read all the posting on this thread and other threads like it!! Sometimes I have to look up the accepted definition of cross-dressing. As a broad statement a cross dresser wears an article of clothing normally associated with the opposite gender. Here I am sitting in a bra stuffed with water balloons (can't get up the balls to get breast forms, YET!). I'm wearing a gray wig, although I would never wear a toupee. I have a girdle on, stockings, high heels, a dress and a slip. No makeup today because, well, it is too much work for so little time. If my wife were to pass on today, tomorrow I would shave my legs, arms, and the back of my hands. I still would need the wig- God isn't going to work miracles up there!

Some of the respondents here are transgenders. I am not! I am not a male incarcerated in a male body. If I want to dress for comfort, I'd wear my jean shorts with holes, torn tee shirt and sweat socks. My wife refuses to be seen in public with me, as either Stephanie or in my holey jeans. If I wanted to dress for comfort, even in my neck of woods where heat waves are at 75 degrees with low humidity, I'd be dressing as a bum. I love wearing woman's dresses, heels and undergarments. Why, I don't know! Nobody dressed me up when I was young! I try to present as a woman, because, well, sometimes I want to be a woman.

As to a woman wearing male attire, it does not make them a cross dresser in my sense of the word. My wife and daughter wear pants and tops for comfort, but, styled for women. My wife's and daughter's biggest complaint about pants for women is the lack of pockets. Each hates carrying a big trash bag for tons of stuff they do not need at the moment.

Some of you wear women's clothing for comfort- more power to you. But, are you presenting as a female? I am trying to present a feminine side of myself. What of that line of new sports attire with a cut for the form of a woman? I need to get some Jets or Giant attire. No need for baggy beer gut looking jersey's when you can look that sexy!

I am a cross dresser presenting as a woman. When my wife and daughter wear male looking jeans, flannel shirts, etc, they are women dressing for comfort and NOT presenting as a male.

I drove my wife off the cliff when I decided I needed to by and bra. She could not understand why a male without man boobs needed to stuff a bra and wear it? Oh, well, I need to go shave my facial hair!

[Sue101]

I agree with others that society is tolerant of people expressing themselves in public. You can safely walk around the streets and are unlikely to have any bad experiences.

However that has nothing to do with the issue of social acceptance. Society DOES have a problem with crossdressers. We are a group they would rather not have to see on the streets and a group still linked with deviant behaviors. As was pointed out any crossdresser unfortunate enough to be caught up in a media event is slaughtered by the media. We are a group which can be openly mocked without inducing guilt.

The root cause of this attitude is ignorance. That is partly our fault for being a closteted community but we are only reacting to the phobias and prejudices that surround us. It is hard to question why young boys decide to hide their behavior when the consequence of coming out is physical beatings and psychological abuse. Those fears are hard to get rid of so carry on into our adult lives.

So why the double standards between how men and women are treated. The answer seems obvious enough. The gender movement for the last one hundred years has been fixated on women's rights only. Men's issues are ignored so men in general are still required to stick to a rigid definition of what makes a man. Any behavior that is different makes him a loser, and if the behavior is also considered deviant then forget it.

Society may tolerate our existance but they do not like us. We break all the rules of manhood so nobody wants us. The prejudices remain solidly in place but society has learned to mask them to appear to be politically correct and accommodating. Privately we are still mocked and villified.

[erickka]

I have been out many times all over the southeast U.S. and have not encountered any problems. I think that if you are confident and are comfortable with yourself, you will be much more apt to feel like you belong, and somehow people seem to open up to, and accept someone who is relaxed and blending in society.

[Pythos]

Looking at some of these responses, it is very evident we CDs are our own worst enemies.

[2SpeedTranny]

Society may tolerate our existance but they do not like us. We break all the rules of manhood so nobody wants us. The prejudices remain solidly in place but society has learned to mask them to appear to be politically correct and accommodating. Privately we are still mocked and villified.


Speak for yourself... skip the "we" stuff.

I don't break all the rules of manhood. I break one of them -- how I dress. I'm still a man underneath, after all -- a strong, skilled, clever, useful one.

Women still want me.

And if anyone mocks me behind my back, it's for some of my "crazy" ideas for saving the world... as if I cared anyway.


Pythos is right. "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

[Jannine]

This subject looks set to go on ad infinitum.
It's plain that there are many varied opinions, and I can sense members are passionate about it, to the point of becoming angry, when it really all depends on which side of the fence you come from. WE,-that is, people who like to dress and present in a way that represents our opposite sex (be that male or female) can often become our own worst enemies, via self analysis when not qualified to do so, as demonstrated here. In other words, dont read too much into it and lighten up.

Jannine. XX

[VioletJourney]

Well any time there's a reference to it on TV or in movies, it's always a joke. People think we're funny for some reason, in a bad way.

[marissa_sissy]

I enjoy reading the responses, and I guess I wonder if why if you dislike the topic so much, you stopped by in the first place. In certain areas, the facts are that Cd'ers are still too out there for most. I do not see why discussing it offends anyone, and if you do not like it, do not read it. Its an open forum, and those of us who were not in the other thread should be allowed to talk about it...should we not?

I was a restaurant dressed in drab by Kingsway in Edmonton, and a man dressed as a woman walked in. He was not outlandish, and looked relatively passable. He was dressed in a way that was tasteful, and not ridiculous at all. He looked pretty good, I thought. My wife, who knows I dress, looked at me when he came in, and just winked at me and smiled. The entire place was abuzz, and people were openly mocking him. To his credit, he just sort of smiled, and did what he did, and eventually it died down somewhat. There were people who made open comments to him, despite the fact that he was obviously with his SO. (they were calling him names indicative of sexual preferences, etc.) I did not say or do much of anything, other than watch in curiosity. (I am a tough little dude in my real life, and thought that if someone got too over the top, I would be there, of course)

I was with my wife's mom and her group of friends that are really weird and religious, so I did not go over there, nor did I comment, when the church gang was even looking down their noses at him. There were people that were employed by the restaurant, and all walks of life, and all of them were essentially looking, and pointing, and acting like imbeciles, and it was totally accepted among most or all of them that this behavior was ok.

Despite being a scrappy dude, I do not go out in Edmonton, and likely never will. I give this person a worlds worth of credit for having a personality like this, and just dealing with it. The attitude in my city, is that we are not normal, nor ok. Again, a girl could walk around dressed like a dude, and most would not even notice. Yet, this person was openly mocked and villified. I think that in some places, one of the last acceptable stereo types, is hurling insults at cd'ers.

If you live somewhere that you are lucky enough to be who you are, and can dress how you want to, then you are lucky enough, imo. But don't get on those of us who came here to comment on this topic, just because you are tired of talking about it.

[Fab Karen]

Society may tolerate our existance but they do not like us. We break all the rules of manhood so nobody wants us. The prejudices remain solidly in place but society has learned to mask them to appear to be politically correct and accommodating. Privately we are still mocked and villified.
Unless you ask people, you don't know. Some people like us, some people dislike us, and some are neutral. Once on a bus in boy-mode I saw one of us get on & sit in the front ( I was toward the back ) - during her trip AND after she got off, no-one mocked her or made any negative comment.

[busker]

There is still some old school prejudices out there in certain areas, but it is no where near as bad as it used to be. A lot of the old schoolers like the WW2 crowd for example are passing away and thier ideas and intolerance about crossdressing and etc. are going to the grave with them.

The crossdressers very own attitude and how they conduct thierself is becoming more governor of tolerence and intolerence in the world today.

Just as a reminder, we have amongst us a WWII B-17 pilot if I remember correctly.


It is just such a tough deal, and I live in a tough working class city, where the attitude on this is not exactly positive.

Its funny, but there is still a real societal struggle going on with men in womens clothes. Yet, a woman can walk around in mans clothes, and nobody even looks twice.

I do have an example, and it was outlined by me in another thread. A few years ago Dianne Keaton wore a tux and essentially dressed like a man to the Oscars, and was on the cover of dozens of magazines, being called a fashion visionary, and all of this. She was lauded for taking a chance, and crossing into a unique boundary, etc.

Yet, David Carradine, who did a lot for this world including endorsing an entire way of life and martial art, and several human projects, dies in a hotel room. News agencies everywhere focused on but one thing on the man. The fact that he had a closet full of skimpy, tarty lingerie and fishnet stockings that he had been wearing. The radio stations in Edmonton had a field day, and could not find one nice thing to say about the guy, except that (gasp) he wore womens underwear in the privacy of his own home.

It is just a fact. If a woman dresses as a man she is bold and trendy. If a man dresses as a woman, he is kinky and perverted. It is the societal double standard de jour. Why?

Your guess is a s good as mine. But where I live, I am too afraid of someone acting like a weirdo redneck to me, or seeing someone I know, as I have lived here all of my life. (Edmonton) My wife although extremely supportive and wonderful, likely would not be caught dead with me. Although I am considering going out on Halloween, which is a day when I can dress, and not really worry about the repercussions. I think this year, I will find a way to dress and go out on that day.

Marlene Dietrich did this years ago and wore a tux in the movie Blond venus circa 1936. She actually set the trend. Greta Garbo started the trend of wearing pants, which she originally wore in a movie and liked them so well, she began dressing that way in her regular daily life. also circa early 1930's

[Pythos]

Be careful there busker.

There are many here that think women have worn pants since the dawn of time (when in actuality it was the men that wore dresses(robes), skirts, stockings and tights in the beginning). I am saddened by how many do not know their history, especially in an area such as clothing when it comes to this site.

[kymmieLorain]

Kate,brought up a point, what is social norm? It is what we are told by companies, and mass media. But we as crossdressers go beyond that and do are own thing by dressing the way we want. I believe I am getting to a place in my life in which I say, "SO". as in so what. about 15 years ago my oldest said looks dad has girl toes, refering to my painted toe nails. I just said So, that was the end of that.
I say to sociaty and social norm, SO

Kymmie

[Joanne f]

The big difference between the women that fought for the right to wear what they like and the cross dressers who want to wear what they like is that the women fought as women were as the cross dressers fight as would be women, apart from the few who are willing to fight as men in women's clothes ,or what is perceived as women's clothes , there are to many subsections for the general public to really get to grips of what is what as far as men wearing dress`s and skirts, it confuse`s them .

[Pythos]

A couple of days ago, a female representative of the US government said, and I quote "...take off your lace panties, stop being noodlebacked...".

Now, I haven't the slightest Idea what being noodlebacked is, but I do recognize a sexist statement that insults women in many ways. Basically she is telling the republicans to "butch up" (forgetting the fact there are several female republicans, including herself). She is implying that the wearing of lace panties equates to weakness, and that the male republicans (as I said, I think she forgot about the women in her cadre).

This is a woman that clearly associates feminine with weakness.

To those that keep saying women fought for their freedom looking like women, you are right. However, every time a male skirt comes out it is ridiculed....BY WOMEN!!! Once again, look at the posts, one of the ones that drive me absolutely up the wall is "not for MY man". I am quite willing to fight as a male, or androgynous wearing the clothing socially acceptable as women's clothing. But not on my own. I would love to wear a skirt and hose, with possible heels with the rest being a "manly" look. The problem is, too many ignorant people equate feminine with weak. We certainly are not helped by many of the images that are associated with men wearing women's clothing, not the least of which being perverted images.

[Elena Ornamental]

First of all, the different groups that make up society don't progress as far as acceptance goes at the same rate. I propose it's got to be more accepting now that in the 1950s when very little information was available to the public. But I think the key issue is in a patriarchal society being male holds a higher status than being female. So if a woman wears "mannish" clothing, she's reaching for a higher status position but if a man wears feminine clothing he is literally "degrading" his status position. I see this as a factor in acceptance of cross dressing in our culture.
But with the spread of available information there's the downside that people might project sexual aspects on all cross dressers. Why people in society are so concerned/hung up/critical about someone elses sexuality I don't know (going back to the Puritan strain in American culture?). An example is how most people immediately equate cross dressing with being homosexual. I can't speak for all people in the culture and more information out there can change/evolve this aspect. Most people aren't as aware of the difference between sex and gender as we are.
Just some random thoughts.

[Joanne f]

So will the ones that present as women that do not particularly pass ( as the ones that pass go unnoticed) pave the way for men that want to just wear feminine clothes as men or will the ones that just dress in feminine clothes as men pave the way for the ones that want to present as women to be more accepted in society .

[cindychan]

Well, I think modern society has been more accepting of CDs in the last 10 years than ever before. It also depends on location. In some nations like Jamaica and Iraq the people have no qualms about killing CDs or TGs (and it keeps getting worse). Though the States is 1000 times more safe there are always going to be individuals that act like jerks about us. As people become more educated, I believe we will become more worldly accepted by society.

[Samantha W]

IMHO its about out sex.

Air, food, and water are immediate needs to continue living and you will do almost anything to get them if you are being denied. Reproduction (ie. sex) is a secondary need but it is just as deeply imbedded. People, like all other animals, are hardwired to identify members of the opposite sex. If a snail or bird cant figure out which other snail or bird to mate with, their chances of reproducing drops dramatically. It works the same way with people.

Cross dressing messes with that extremely primal need to identify the opposite sex. That’s why people we encounter feel they have been tricked, but are not sure why. It’s also why we are more welcome in a homosexual setting even though most of us aren't homosexual. That segment of society has already put the reproduction need the back burner or found another way to fulfill it.

[Jannine]

I really believe that (C/D.ing) would be far more acceptable in the US, and more or less shrugged off as a topic of general conversation, compared with staid old Australia. But these days as we become more of a global society, general acceptance of 'strange' practises and habits are starting to become everyday humdrum in a busy, mixed up world.
I guess we, who like to explore our sexuality a bit deeper than ordinary Joe does, are also likewise bundled into the common group known as 'Fruitcakes'. - Laughed at for a bit, poked fun at certainly, but probably also secretly admired by many males!!

Jannine. XX

[IMkrystal]

Society has a problem with crossdressers because as a whole they have problems with themselves. They see thier behavior as negative, wrong, deviant, ect. ect.
They Hide in the closet and it is extremely rare to see a crossdresser in the real world.

Because of this WHY the hell would you expect society to accept this behavior? I mean REALLy.

I find this a very interesting point! If crossdressers felt positive about their behavior, would the "real word" be more accepting? Considering the changes that have occurred with civil rights, women, and gay movements, perhaps there is a need for a crossdresser movement?

[Sandy1967]

So many people and thank to reality shows are so caught up with other people's lives instead of dealing with their own lives. People will have an opinion and judge you wherever you go and what ever you wear. I want to be accepted but limit my dressing to not being overly obvious. If you want to look that closely than you are too involved in my life. I will continue to dress in a way that society will be pay no attention.

[Diane Delaney]

cool cool cool cool cool