Helpful answers only, please

[J'lyn GG]

To those w/ wives who didn't accept in the beginning or who only tolerate the cding, how long did it take for your wife to get past the self-loathing and depression? I want to accept my husband's cding, but I am not able to get past the belief that it is more important than me. He tries to explain and reassure, but...We are in marriage counseling and I am in individual counseling and on anti-depressants. He treats me well and tries not to take advantage, I accept my husbands feelings, but I can't accept the cding. I think b/c I believe that while the feelings are not a choice, the dressing is. Every time he dresses, he is choosing to do something that causes me so much pain and self-loathing. I just really need to know if there is an end? When I am in my darkest moments, he tells me he will quit, but he always waits until I'm there. He knows I need constant reassurance, but always waits until I'm in that dark moment to give it. I'm so confused, b/c I want him to quit, so we could be happy again, but I would never make him, b/c his happiness means more to me than my own. I would not want him to hate me over this. I just want to be the woman he needs. So, to the original ?, how long did it take your wife to get past the depression.

[KarenCDFL]

Dear Grace Anne,

I am a life long cross dresser that has been married for over 15 years to a now very accepting woman.

I did tell her before we married and she did have some issues especially when I used makeup. We went to counseling and over time my wife came to realize that I am the same person no matter what i wear. We now both enjoy my dressing separately and together.

This is something you have to both work through. Don't rush it and give yourself as much time and as much space as you need.

I think eventually the two of you will come to terms of what is appropriate in your marriage and a way for your needs and his needs to be met.

You probably all ready know that your husband will most likely never be able to stop dressing and if you give ultimatums , that will push you two even further apart and make both of you feel worse. On the other hand your husband absolutely must take your feelings into account not only in this issue but everything that you do together.

This is my opinion.

I do highly recommend that you both continue with counseling and if you need to, find a counselor that may be better in situations like this.

I wish the best for both of you.

[Kate Simmons]

Hi Grace, He has to understand that CDing is a process.Like any process it needs to be under control, otherwise the process controls him.Most of the time it amounts to a compulsion and needs to be obeyed. To get past that one needs to make it a choice rather than a compulsion. Once that is accomplished, it becomes about being WHO you are not WHAT you are. The deep feelings that drive it need to be honestly addressed.:)

[Tina B.]

There is no easy answer to a thing like this, you have your view on what is right, and you have a right to your views. But having said that, I doubt he can stop, most of us don't feel that it's all that easy to do. If the two of you are going to find your way through this maze, it will take both of you working together. If you can't handle his dressing around you, then you need to allow him time to dress alone, he needs to take your feelings into his planning for time, so that it has the least impact on the family, hopefully given time, maybe you can learn to accept even more, and maybe that would fulfill his needs too. By the way, I have talked to many CD's for years now, and I have never met one that dressed because his wife lacked anything, most of us where dressing way before we where thinking about girls, much less had wives. And if he quits, he most likely will not be happy, and may fail in the attempt, and that could add to the stress. Sorry but when a wife is that much against crossdressing, it's hard for both people to get what the want or need, hopefully love wins out, but not always. Your right dressing is a choice, but for me it's not just dress on not, it's be content, happy, fulfilled, and feel loved for who I am, vs. Feeling like I'm living my life in an emotional pressure cooker, ready to fight anyone anytime, just because they gave me a look, or said something that I took offense at. Knowing my wife is afraid to express an opinion, because if I disagree there could be an augment. Being depressed to the point of being immobile, and finding myself in a black hole, no longer feeling anything. If I stop dressing, I don't like the person I become, why would anyone else, including my wife. But that's just me.
Tina B.

[Violetgray]

Chances are he's had these urges since long before he met you. His desire to dress is not the direct result of ANYTHING that you're doing, or not doing. There is NO reason that his desire to feel beautiful should cause you self-loathing. If tomorrow he started exercising and eating a healthy diet, would you take it as a hint that YOU'RE getting fat? Of course not. He just want himself to be fit. It's something that he is doing for him.

In the same way, people just want to feel attractive. This is something we (humans) all want from OURSELVES. It has nothing to do with other people.

[J'lyn GG]

I see what you're saying, but is it ok for all those things to happen to your wife? How do you think I feel? I'm in an emotional pressure cooker, depressed to severe levels AND I am the sahm to 4 boys. We have been married 17 yrs, when do I matter?
I honestly don't expect my husband to quit as I really do feel it is more important than me, but I do need to be told he would if it came down to it. I am desperate to find an answer. I will not leave him, b/c I would be miserable w/o him. I have good days, but the bad days are really bad.
And he does get time to dress. He goes to these meetings. But he takes 4 hours to get ready, which I can't handle, so he sends me out. To be alone.
I don't know what I expect from you guys. Hope, I guess.

[JulieK1980]

It won't go away, and it's unlikely he will be able to quit. I've spent my lifetime trying to understand what makes me be a crossdresser, and the only conclusive thing I've ever come up with is that it can't be "quit." For whatever the cause, it's a part of who I am.

It more than likely is something that has been a part of his life since long before he met you. There is NO reason for you to be self loathsome. It's not a judgement on you. I can tell you it's not a choice between dressing and you though. It's two different facets of his life. Of course as his wife you are the most important thing in his life. The crossdressing is entirely different though. It's like asking someone not to drink water ever again.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, crossdressing for many of us, is a need NOT a want. It's pushed right into our basic needs like shelter, food, water, and love. Imagine if someone you loved asked you to give up a need that you needed to thrive as a person. On the one hand of course you'd want to give them that and do it, but on the other no matter how hard you try, you'll still end up caving to that basic need.

The time length of self loathing, I can't answer for you as in my own marriage it was discussed and accepted from the beginning. I do hope you come to realize it's not your fault, and it's not a matter of him loving the dressing more than you, or even that it's more important than you because it isn't. It's just a need.

I hope the both of you are able to work through this, and come to terms. Communication between the two of you will go lightyears further than anything we can say.

[Joanne f]

I am sorry to hear that you are suffering in this way as i know what it is like once you get into a depressed state you can feel like everything is against you even your loved one`s, but one thing i can tell you is that the dressing has nothing or very little to do with you so you must stop this self loathing it is not a reflection on you.
To be honest there are a minor few who will put the CDing before anything else but i think this does not happen very often, you say that you can accept your husbands feelings but you cannot accept the dressing as you feel they are or should be separate but unfortunately they go hand in hand as you need the dressing in some form to be able to express what is inside of you , you can get to a state where it is not quite so important but in the end you will need to express it with dressing some times to reaffirm the connection so that is going to be a difficult one to over come .
I know it sounds easy but it is a very difficult thing to quit once you have started to dress or express yourself , i would love to quit but just can`t so i also know what it is like for your husband when he knows you need him to quit and says that he will he has less control over that than you think and it is not done against you .
My wife had problems with it to start with and it almost ended our marriage she had never heard of it and could not understand how or why i was like it and like you assumed it had something to do with her plus all the other usual things said about cross dressers but for some reason she decided to look at my good points (must have had one) and gave it a go with me only doing it in a separate room but then she decided that there was not much point in being married if we spent time in the house in separate rooms but at the same time could see how much it would effect me if i did not dress in at least a skirt around the house , once we both got past that stage then she could see that it made no difference as to what clothes i wear in fact she is now completely comfortable with it .
How long did it take , as far as i remember about a couple of weeks to sort things out in her mine then a couple of months to really get use to it , that was quite a few years ago but i will say that i rarely fully dress at home so it is not in her face all the time but she tells me that there is no problem if i want to , so there is an end to your depression and self loathing it is just being able to get back to your original self before the depression started which i know is hard but can and will be done , talk with each other as much as you can but to much does not help in my opinion other wise that makes in seam like that is the only thing in life .
Sorry about the long post but one other thing , it would be very helpful for you to join the FAB forum as some will have experienced what you are going though and can look at it from a GGs point of view

[RenneB]

I too have been a lifelong CDr. Started back when I was 4 or 5 I recall the moment exactly like it was yesterday. I am also married and for 15 years, Renne never showed up. Now that circumstances have changed and I have a bunch of free time at home, Renne gets to come out and play a lot. No my SO may suspect but doesn't overtly know. The boots leaked out of the closet a few weeks ago, but we've swept that under the carpet.

This is who I am, this is what I do. I love my family, my SO and our biological replacements. However, with the way our local society is here in the upper mid-west coming out to the family let alone to the public is just not going to happen. I wish, when the boots incident happened, the SO was more understanding but I fear that she will launch the D word and then my life as I know it is over. No more big house, no more free time, nothing. So it's kind of like the old cold war mentality.

It's mad. That's right, if I come out or get caught, it's mutual assured distruction. So I saw let sleeping dogs lie right where you find them.

Renne.....

[JamieG]

I see what you're saying, but is it ok for all those things to happen to your wife? How do you think I feel? I'm in an emotional pressure cooker, depressed to severe levels AND I am the sahm to 4 boys. We have been married 17 yrs, when do I matter?
I honestly don't expect my husband to quit as I really do feel it is more important than me, but I do need to be told he would if it came down to it. I am desperate to find an answer. I will not leave him, b/c I would be miserable w/o him. I have good days, but the bad days are really bad.
And he does get time to dress. He goes to these meetings. But he takes 4 hours to get ready, which I can't handle, so he sends me out. To be alone.
I don't know what I expect from you guys. Hope, I guess.

Grace Anne,

I am a happily married CDer with a wonderful spouse. Unfortunately, I did not tell her I was a crossdresser until we had been married for a year (and after a full five years of knowing each other). It put a serious strain on our relationship and we had to find a way to balance my need to dress with her needs. Over time, things became easier and although we would have an occasional argument over the issue, we have reached a good place now.

It sounds like you are giving your husband room to express his CD side, but maybe he's taking too much advantage of it? Expecting you to be out of the house while he gets ready for 4 hours sounds a bit thoughtless. I usually change at the meeting spot, and do it in less than an hour. Do you ever get a chance to go out and do things just for you, while he stays home and watches the kids? My wife's outlook on CDing certainly improved as she got more of chance to explore her own hobbies and spend some time with her friends (and without the kids in tow). And of course, in addition to each having solo time, the two of you need to occasionally hire a baby sitter, and find some time to go out on a date, simply to reconnect as a couple.

The important thing is that you find balance. As much as he might want to, I don't think he'll be able to quit. However, that doesn't mean you have to suck it up and like it. As others have said, I think its fair to ask him to keep it out of your face, and to balance how much time is spent CDing with other family responsibilities. And most importantly, any time he gets should be balanced with you having equal time to go off and do your own thing.

[Nia Hush]

Well, just to put this another way - would you still feel like this if it was something else, like sports or woodworking or restoring a classic car? I ask because in some cases these are also things men enjoy and particularly in the case of the latter two, they would prefer to enjoy that alone and share the result later. And in those two cases, there's a certain pride in self-sufficiency and doing it yourself which I could extend to something like crossdressing.

The process of building something, creating an illusion or just number crunching the latest sports statistics from the paper can be emotionally satisfying for a man. For me, its video games. And there are just some people that want to do things alone. I've literally been wired that way from birth - totally capable to be content doing things alone and, in fact, it is a need I have. I am a social guy, but I don't need things like attention or approval to function and be happy with myself.

Now, assuming there's no hyperbole going on here, it does sound like he's indulging a bit too much and that might be a bigger problem. In fact, it could be his way of coping with some stress he's not expressing. Please keep in mind I'm just a psych minor here. Sometimes that sense of satisfaction that comes from completing things by yourself can be an addictive escape and a way of hiding rather than facing it. The diversion itself might not be the issue, but that doesn't change the fact any coping mechanism can become a crutch without moderation.

What it sounds like to me, though, is that you two are in need of finding something you can share and enjoy together. Think of some things that can lure him out, but be careful about making it something that makes it just about you because I do get a sense you're making this all about you.

Off the top of my head, things like taking a ballroom dance class, exercising together or going to see a live sporting event - anything that can be a routine you can share is a good thing and something you both need to get back to. There has to be some things you two share that really click with him or you wouldn't have been together this long.

[J'lyn GG]

Yes,I am making it about me. I am the one suffering and on anti-depressants. I have been with him since I was 15, I have followed him to several different states for jobs, I have no friends where we live b/c we have moved again and money is tight b/c we just had another baby. And he does work on his car. He has a chevelle.
I'm complaining a bit. I won't ask him to quit I am just looking for hope that I won't have these awful downward spirals so often.

[Debra Russell]

Grace, I let my wife in on who "Debra" was about 1 1/2 yrs ago" it" has been part of me since about 5 yrs old- -- we have been married 45 yrs! She was very taken back and upset but I made an effort to let her in on what I was doing at all times while I was out; after a while she could see that I was really enjoying myself and doesn't seem to mind but does not participate- - she even buys me clothes. What I am getting at is- - this is not life threatening is not going away and maybe after you see what he is all about you may be a little more accepting- - buy him something pretty be a little accepting and your depression will ease into a state of tolerance! Best wishes .....Debra

[Joanne f]

I hope you do not mind me asking but were you depressed and felt this self loathing before you had the baby (congratulations on that), don`t answer if you do not want to .

Personally i do not think that by feeding someone else`s desires is going to help your depression in fact it may increase it , you have to get to the rout of the problem within you that means your husband needs to feed your needs and not the other way around ,( just my opinion).
A depressed person needs a great deal of understanding but it is often the ones closest to them that feels the brunt of this it can become a difficult situation as both may need help in different ways.

[funkybunny]

Im a gg been married 31 years. in the beginning which i new before we married. i tolorated it cause i didnt understand. i can say i never was depressed about it but its a very confusing thing 2 go thru. It takes time but i feel this enriches our lives.i feel that the stress you feel about is ok . i think for me was the way i was brought up to thinking so the acceptance is harder. i have accepted this but keep learning.give it time you'll get there there is no set time. knowing your husband will support you no matter what you do

[JulieC]

I honestly don't expect my husband to quit as I really do feel it is more important than me, but I do need to be told he would if it came down to it. I am desperate to find an answer.

Nobody can really give you that answer. It's something you have to work out between yourself and him. I can't speak to your marital problems. I'm not a marriage counselor. But, I am a (nearly) life long crossdresser, and I've dated many women over the years. Been engaged thrice, married once. I've dated women across the spectrum of acceptance of crossdressing. My wife is accepting and supportive. She was never against me crossdressing, but there have been bumps in the road and she is certainly more accepting today than she was early on. With that said, so you have an idea where I am coming from....

Asking your husband, and yourself for that matter, to judge the ability to quit crossdressing with being a proxy for how much he cares about you is an equation guaranteed to fail. It doesn't address reality, and unfairly (to you and to him) places a connective burden on crossdressing that should never be in place.

(I'm not equating crossdressing to being overweight with the following, just bear with me)

Imagine for a moment that you suffered from a physical condition that resulted in you being chronically overweight. You're 5'5", and weigh 320 lbs. You can't help it. You've tried diet after diet after diet. You've tried exercise after exercise after exercise. You've consulted with doctor after doctor after doctor. Despite this, you haven't tipped the scales at under 300 in 15 years. Your husband is fed up with it and tells you "If you can't lose weight, you're just proving to me how little you love me. If you truly loved me, you'd lose the weight; you're morbidly obese!"

Scads of people, both male and female, would react very poorly to that, and refer to your husband in very, very pejorative terms. Your physical condition isn't your fault. You're not obese because you don't love him. You can't help it. It's who you are, you were born this way, and you've done everything you can to stop it without success.

GraceAnne, I speak from opinion with the following but I very, very strongly believe this and have some evidence to back it up. Crossdresers are born, not made. Few people would ever choose to be a crossdresser. The shame, censure, and heavy assaults upon us by society that we suffer isn't something we'd volunteer for. How many of us sit at home crossdressed, fearful of ever going out wearing a skirt because of losing friends, jobs, and coming under hateful criticism from the public at large? How many of us try to keep our crossdressing secret from everyone, including spouses, living in fear of discovery. Many of us that do go out in public do so well away from home. And for what? The great, great crime of wearing clothes designed for the opposite sex. If this is a "choice", then most of us are probably clinically crazy to have made such a disastrous choice.

You "need to be told" he'd quit crossdressing if it came down to it? This forum is filled with people who have tried and tried and tried to stop crossdressing. The regulars here, crossdressers who have long since learned to accept ourselves, tell people to not 'purge' (throw out all their femme clothing and other items) because it doesn't work; soon or later, you'll come back to crossdressing and just end up having wasted a bunch of money getting rid of things in the last purge. Some of us have wasted thousands of dollars this way...and it NEVER works. Can your husband quit? Sure, just as soon as he changes his eye color on command. It is who he is.

Asking him to never crossdress again, even if he somehow managed to comply, won't 'cure' him or crossdressing. He'll still be a crossdresser. In fact, it could badly backfire on you. There are some members of this forum who attempt to repress their crossdressing desires and find themselves having serious mental and physical repercussions from doing so. If you decided to stop wearing skirts and dresses for the rest of your life, do you stop being a woman? That might seem like an absurd question, but its the same question towards crossdressers. If he stops wearing skirts and dresses does he stop being a crossdresser? Again, it is who he is. You are no less a woman if you're not wearing a skirt, and he is no less a crossdresser if he's not wearing a skirt. He's also no less of a man! More on that in a sec.

You've been with this man for a long time. You've married him, built a family, a life, a love together. As with any marriage, you have problems, and you have major benefits being together, which you've spoken to as well. The man you met, the man you fell in love with, the man you married, the man you've made a family with, the man you've experienced so much with...was a crossdresser all along. The attributes of being a crossdresser can't be separated out into a convenient little box and have a label put on it saying "I hate this part, and it's not the part I fell in love with". Your husband, warts and all, is an entire person. That's who you love. Part and parcel of that is him being a crossdresser. Many attributes of him are influenced by his self identity. There's a very good chance that some or even many of the things about him you like best are directly or indirectly a consequence of his self identity as a crossdresser. He isn't any less of a man because he has these qualities. In fact, many wives (including my wife) believe these qualities improve a man.

The western society we live in almost universally stands very strongly against men being anything other than perfectly masculine. About the only exception to this is gay men, which have varying degrees of acceptance. But a non-gay man who is effeminate suffers all sorts of hate and derision. These are social laws that are almost as inviolate as codified laws in our community. Why? If a woman is ultra feminine, that's ok, that's expected. If a man is ultra masculine, that's ok, that's expected. If a woman rarely (if ever) wears skirts, dresses, heels, makeup, sexy lingerie, etc. that's ok too. She's not ultra feminine, but she's still all woman. If a man rarely (if ever) wears pants, ties, male shoes, male socks, male shirts, that's not ok. He's not ultra masculine, and suddenly he's viewed as broken, a freak, and possessed of weird tendencies. It's hypocritical to the extreme.

That's the society that you exist in, that's the society that's programmed you as you are.

There are many societies, both current and in the past, where a man being something other than masculine is/was revered. They are looked up to, respected, held in high esteem. Do you think if you were raised in such a society that you would hold such opinions for crossdressing as you do? No need to answer that question to anyone here. Just food for thought.

I don't think your husband can stop being a crossdresser. That failure isn't any testament to his depth of love (or lack thereof) for you any more than his inability to change his eye color. I think it would be a good idea to accept that reality, and decide how to respond to it. Your husband crossdressing deeply bothers you. There's nothing wrong with you having that reaction per se. What you choose to do as a result of that reaction could be very wrong.

Many couples we hear about on this forum have a "don't ask, don't tell" (DADT) policy. The wives are well aware their husbands crossdress. They don't want to know about it in any more detail than they already know. It bothers them, they don't want to see it, and they want the "man they married". They're not going to divorce him over it, but they just don't want to deal with it. That really is ok. Honest. It's unfair to expect you to react in a different way than you are willing to react. In the DADT set up, the husband continues to crossdress, so he is not being repressed. He doesn't live in fear of discovery, because his wife already knows. He's able to express rather than repress himself, which for some avoids mental and physical consequences. It can be a win-win for some couples. There's a possibility it might be a win-win for you two.




And he does get time to dress. He goes to these meetings. But he takes 4 hours to get ready, which I can't handle, so he sends me out. To be alone. I don't know what I expect from you guys. Hope, I guess.

Every couple has their own solutions. But, it sounds to me like this arrangement isn't working, and is a heavy burden on you. So, discuss it with him and come up with a different solution. "Your spending 4 hours getting ready is too much for me to handle. I don't mind you going to the meetings, but I can't deal with all the preparation. Sending me out from home, alone, isn't fair to me either as it forces me to be the bad girl, the one who isn't allowed, who has to leave to make peace. That hasn't and isn't going to work. Let's talk about other possible solutions. For starters, what do you think about leaving a few hours in advance of your meeting and getting ready for it either at the meeting or in a motel room?" (many CD support groups have members who show up early and get ready on site before the meetings).

I hope you soon have ten posts so you can join the GG forum here. Please, by all means get into that forum. I think you will find a great deal of support there, without any effort by anyone to 'convert' you to one way of thinking or another. There are plenty of wives here who have been made physically ill by their husbands' crossdressing. Plenty who have been in the depths of despair when confronted with this situation. You will find kindred spirits here.

[GaleWarning]

Grace Anne, you need to get 10 posts on this site asap, then join the Female At Birth (FAB) Forum. It is there that you are more likely to get the answers and support that you need.

[giuseppina]

Hello GraceAnne,

I have never been in a relationship, but I do have problems with depression. At one time, I was almost immobilised and suicidal. Some of my comments may seem harsh and make you angry, but that is not the intent, which is to make you think.


I see what you're saying, but is it ok for all those things to happen to your wife? How do you think I feel? I'm in an emotional pressure cooker, depressed to severe levels AND I am the sahm to 4 boys. We have been married 17 yrs, when do I matter?
I honestly don't expect my husband to quit as I really do feel it is more important than me, but I do need to be told he would if it came down to it. I am desperate to find an answer. I will not leave him, b/c I would be miserable w/o him. I have good days, but the bad days are really bad.
And he does get time to dress. He goes to these meetings. But he takes 4 hours to get ready, which I can't handle, so he sends me out. To be alone.
I don't know what I expect from you guys. Hope, I guess.

It's almost never a good idea to make significant changes in living arrangements when you are depressed. One of the few exceptions is in an abusive relationship.

I don't think sending you out while he gets ready is the best idea. Perhaps you can set up an arrangement whereby you can stay home but stay out of each other's sight while he is dressing. I do think 4 hours to get ready to go out is on the high side of reasonable. (Disclaimer: I prefer to stay home while dressed.)

There are often spousal support groups available as part of crossdressser/transgender support groups.

Good days and bad days are to be expected, particularly for those dealing with depression.


Yes,I am making it about me. I am the one suffering and on
anti-depressants. I have been with him since I was 15, I have followed him to several different states for jobs, I have no friends where we live b/c we have moved again and money is tight b/c we just had another baby. And he does work on his car. He has a chevelle.
I'm complaining a bit. I won't ask him to quit I am just looking for hope that I won't have these awful downward spirals so often.

PS I would love to join the FAB forum, but this site has a stupid requirement b4 they will invite u to the forum that would be most helpful.

It usually takes about two or three months for antidepressants to make a significant difference in mood. If you've been on one or a combination for at least this long without significant change in mood, it is time to try something else. It may also be time to ask for a referral to a psychiatrist, as these ladies and gentlemen are the experts when it comes to dosages and drug combinations.

It's time for you and your husband to stay put for a while (not seek new employment requiring a move) while you deal with your depression. You don't need the extra stress right now. That is also part of the picture.

Clearing depression is about challenging thought patterns, taking risks, and adopting new ideas. It is hard work, and it affects the entire family, and the therapists are likely to insist that all members of the family attend at least one one-on-one session . Unfortunately, things may get worse before they get better.

There is a book entitled "Ten Days to Self-Esteem" by Dr. David Burns which may help you. This book was recommended to me by my therapist at the time. The title is probably a bit unrealistic for someone in your situation, but it does talk about challenging your thought patterns. You should be able to find this book in a large bookstore or at Amazon.

Now for the harsh but realistic bit: It is time to end the self pity and get going on your depression. Nobody but you can do this. The antidepressants raise your mood level so you aren't quite so depressed, but they don't help with the negative thought patterns that go with depression. That is something that requires positive action on your part.

The minimum post requirement for the FAB section is there for security against male infiltrators. I saw a report that a genetic male broke through the security and ruffled a few feathers while he was there.

And finally, none of this or any other post on this forum can be a substitute for medical advice from your doctors or therapists. Only duly qualified and licensed health professionals can provide such advice.

Get going and good luck. :hugs:

[Charise52]

First of all, it is just clothing choices,,, what fits and what feels good... don't it get to you... it does not refeflect on you... it is just clothes and styles... my girlfriends over the years have been ok with it... some thought it was cute, some were neutral and some were attracted to me because of it... they were not that many... very few in fact, yet my clothing choices were ok... so take care of yourself, and be very glad you have a husband, I so wish I had a wife... It is just about Style... so do not take it personally...

[J'lyn GG]

JulieC, giuseppina
Thank you for the time and thoughtfulness you put into your answers. I feel that I may be climbing out of my downward spiral a little. (btw this spiral has been going on since Monday) My emotional roller coasters have deep lows. My husband won't dress at the meeting b/c he says there is only one bathroom and he doesn't want to monopolise it. Since I am a sahm (a choice we made together, so I'm not lazy)w/4 boys (2 teens, two 2 and under) money is very tight. A motel is not an option.

I do relate to your overweight analogy. It makes sense. My husband and I talk. I feel ashamed b/c of the way I feel. But I also don't think that makes me a bad person. I am trying to force myself into being ok w/it. My husband is doing alot to try to make it better for me, but I don't know what to tell him anymore. If I could get past these inferior feelings, I think I might be cautiously ok w/ the cding. I would have no problem if it was my friend, neighbor, brother, whomever.

Yes, I know I have to work on conciously changing the way I think. And I do a good job for a few days (this last stretch of 5 days was the longest and wonderful).

When I'm having a good day, I think I can handle it. That I may even be okay with the cding. B/C I have a man I love, who adores me and 4 children.

I'm rambling, sorry. I'm just trying to figure it all out.

[Momarie]

First of all, it is just clothing choices,,, what fits and what feels good... don't it get to you... it does not refeflect on you... it is just clothes and styles... my girlfriends over the years have been ok with it... some thought it was cute, some were neutral and some were attracted to me because of it... they were not that many... very few in fact, yet my clothing choices were ok... so take care of yourself, and be very glad you have a husband, I so wish I had a wife... It is just about Style... so do not take it personally...

Hey Bubba,

It's a hellava lot more than "clothing choices" & "style".
How insensitive can you be?
Dont take it personally.

And please don't try to lecture a wife on how she feels or should feel or tell her to "be very glad".

Giuseppina said:

I have never been in a relationship (worth noting)

Now for the harsh but realistic bit: It is time to end the self pity



Really?
You really said that?

[Shelly67]

I think clarity is needed here on a totally different issue than the crossdressing . I'd put that furthest from your troubled mind right now , be selfish and think only of you and how to beat the depression you are going through . I've been there deep in depression for a totally different reason ,extremely lost and frightened . It's scarey to be so headless . But with medication and councelling I can now see clearer than before .I have taken control again . Give yourself some time out , go thru any motions you need to regain your character and strength . There is no measure of time , nor should you place yourself into a position to try and find any answears whilst unstable . We are all different , all needing time to mend once in awhile .
No matter how long it takes . I hope you are able to ask your partner to cease dressing and be supportive whilst you are subjected to the illness .
In time when you feel better perhaps it would be a better time to seek professional help .
Until then , no matter what happens , be kind to yourself , each other , let time remove the disbelief , the horror allowing you to communicate fully , openly and honestly ........
My heart goes out to you ......... bless you

[ReineD]

Hi Grace, and welcome to the forum. :hugs: It's OK to ramble. Goodness knows you're entitled ... the learning curve about the CDing is steep for many of us.

I'm a natal woman, like you. I do want to say there are many things in life most of us "think" we understand based on stereotypes, and this can range from beliefs of how people in far away cultures think, to what motivates people in other remote religions do what they do and I'm sure a slew of other things we've had very little exposure to in our lives, including why men crossdress.

The popular beliefs about CDers to people who haven't had exposure to it (and most of us haven't since the CDing is so deep in societal closets) is, they must be gay, or they must want to become women and eventually transition, or it must be a fetish of some sort, or the men who do this do it because they don't feel their wives are enough for them, or it is an "outside" activity like having a mistress and it is supplanting a wife's role, or it is a sickness or a sin, or even that it is a choice.

None of these things are true.

It is true there are gay CDers just as there are gay non-CDers, and some CDers engage in fetishistic sexual practices just as there are non-CDers who do the same. But for the most part the CDing is simply a matter of having a non-standard gender identity. It is a facet of a personality that is as ingrained as the color of his eyes, it does not go away, and it is not a choice. And it most certainly does not replace you.

The trick to feeling better about all of this is to wipe out of your mind everything you think you know about this (since as I've said none of us grow up truly understanding what it is about) and start seeing it as yet another aspect of your husband's personality. He is still the same man you've always known. He has always had the feelings about his gender that he has now, although if he is like most other CDers, he has tried to suppress them. It doesn't mean you have to like and embrace the CDing straight away since it will take a while for you to learn about this, but you do need to stop believing the CDing is a rejection of, or a replacement for you. It would be helpful for you to believe him when he tells you that you ARE the woman and wife he needs but at the same time he also needs to express who he is ... even if it takes him 4 hours to look like what he feels internally sometimes (the urges are not always there) for now. lol. This part does get much easier with practice.

Anyway, it might help to read and learn more about gender variance. Most of us grow up to believe there are only the two genders because it is all we see, and what complicates things is the relatively low percentage of crossdressers which makes it difficult to acknowledge the possibility that some people transcend their birth genders in some way.

I hope I haven't confused you more than you must be already, but please do apply to join the FAB forum after your first 10 posts. See the link under my signature for the details. No one in FAB will try to tell you how to feel. We all respect one another's feelings there, from the women who are having a hard time dealing with it to those who are OK with it, like me.

Our aim is to try to provide accurate information and dispel the myths so that wives can make appropriate decisions for themselves. And have a safe place to process our feelings. Even supportive women like me go through periods of not understanding certain things. Keep in mind though, none of us are professional counselors or medical people, and as with anything you'll need to make up your own mind as to whether or not what you read will make sense to you. If you do want to try to make your marriage work, there is a chance you'll be able to come to terms with this. As I said, it will require you to change what you think you know about all of this. But some women simply can't or won't learn what the CDing is really about because their bias is too deep, and this is OK too. You are who you are, just as your husband is who he is. :hugs:

[Cheryl T]

I want to accept my husband's cding, but I am not able to get past the belief that it is more important than me. He tries to explain and reassure, but...
I accept my husbands feelings, but I can't accept the cding. I think b/c I believe that while the feelings are not a choice, the dressing is.

GraceAnne,
As a life-long CD I can assure you that this is not a question of importance. It is not a comparison to you in the least. It is not a choice.
Having started at age 7 or 8 I can assure you that I did not CHOOSE

[Phoebe P.]

Hey Bubba,

It's a hellava lot more than "clothing choices" & "style".
How insensitive can you be?
Dont take it personally.

And please don't try to lecture a wife on how she feels or should feel or tell her to "be very glad".

Giuseppina said:

I have never been in a relationship (worth noting)

Now for the harsh but realistic bit: It is time to end the self pity



Really?
You really said that?

Yikes! That's kind of harsh! It was one person's opinion and reflects one's experiences. Obviously you feel differently. I don't think Charise was trying to offend anyone. I read it that Charise was trying to be reassuring and I didn't take offense to it. There are many types of people here with many different viewpoints and that's not a bad thing. Just my $2 (adjusted for inflation). ;)

The merged threads did throw me off a bit I have to admit!

[Sarah5]

My wife accepted my cd'ing right from the start and never has asked me to change who I am. I am unsure why so many women have issue with a man wanting to feel feminine and express that side of themselves. I wonder how they would feel if the man said, sorry you should be in a blouse and skirt and not jeans and a T!.

I do not mean to be offensive but it seems to me the real issue is you and your own beliefs and not the fact your husband enjoys dressing every now and again. Why not try to embrace it and enjoy that side of your husband. You might find your relationship grows stronger versus on the edge of destruction.

I know my wife finds I am far more sensitive and a more gentler lover when I am dressed. Hope things work out for you but if you truly love your husband then you'll accept him completly. Your husband definatly needs to take your feelings into consideration and it appears from your posts he may not be doing this. Possibly he should consider forgoeing the metings and keeping this side of him a little more private and one the two of your can learn to enjoy together in private.

Also what concerns me is he may expose this side of him to your children and that would just not be acceptable at all due to thier age and ability to understand that Dad is still Dad. I hope you are able to find a solution to this. For my wife and I she enjoys this side of me but there are times she says - not tonight babes - and I always understand and respect her request.

I think your husband needs to come to this forum and get some advice on how better to mange his cd'ing and hopefully that will help the marriage and also your aceptance of it all.

[Momarie]

As per Sarah5:
"I am unsure why so many women have issue with a man wanting to feel feminine and express that side of themselves. I wonder how they would feel if the man said, sorry you should be in a blouse and skirt and not jeans and a T!."

:wall: :wall: :wall:

"I do not mean to be offensive but it seems to me the real issue is you and your own beliefs and not the fact your husband enjoys dressing every now and again. Why not try to embrace it and enjoy that side of your husband. You might find your relationship grows stronger versus on the edge of destruction."

edge of destruction?
Well, yeah I'm sure that was helpful, along with this little nugget:

"I know my wife finds I am far more sensitive and a more gentler lover when I am dressed."

Pssst, here's a little secret.
Sometimes women don't want to do the dirty deed with a delicate flower.

[Tasha McIntyre]

So, to the original ?, how long did it take your wife to get past the depression.

Hi Grace, about 2 years I told my wife, and it's been a constant evolution for her going through phases of acceptance then non acceptance. The best thing she did was to join here where she could read all of my posts and talk to others in her situation.

She now accepts that I go out on shopping adventures en femme, and she doesn't bat an eyelid if I dress at home when there is just the two of us (no wig or make up though).

To answer your question, for my wife it was several months before she got over the initial shock and any associated depression, but I don't think she ever had any feelings of self loathing.

Hope this helps

Tash :)

[Cheryl T]

Sorry, my other post was cut short by a visit from a family member who is unaware of me.

Yes, we still hide even if I do go out in public. My spouse is extremely supportive and even suggests that I dress and we go shopping, such as we did last weekend. She has made my life so much easier to deal with. Years of hiding and sneaking and self-criticism and feeling I was crazy, and over what? That I feel feminine inside to a degree and need to wear these clothes in order to express that side to the world.
I tried to QUIT. Many times I tried. It doesn't work. It is who I am and it took years to come to terms with that.
I have been this way forever. My first recollection of dressing was at about 7 years old. I didn't make an informed choice. What 7 year old would choose this life???
I don't compete with my spouse. I was wearing pantyhose before she was. I was in makeup before she was. I do this to make myself whole, not to see if I can better her or make up for shortcomings.
This is not more important to me than her. It is however necessary for me to be important to myself and therefore be whole for her.
It was never a choice.

[Marissa]

Momarie: Thank you!!!! For clarifying/questioning/rebutting on those comments that just don't make sense, insult, and well seem rather foolish to say :) oh..I forgot..IMHO ;)

Its great to see all the support given to someone who is hurting..in understanding, accepting, and trying to find her role in all of it.

**Partial quotes**


To those w/ wives who didn't accept in the beginning or who only tolerate the cding, how long did it take for your wife to get past the self-loathing and depression? I want to accept my husband's cding, but I am not able to get past the belief that it is more important than me... I accept my husbands feelings, but I can't accept the cding. I think b/c I believe that while the feelings are not a choice, the dressing is. Every time he dresses, he is choosing to do something that causes me so much pain and self-loathing. I just really need to know if there is an end? .. I'm so confused, b/c I want him to quit, so we could be happy again, but I would never make him, b/c his happiness means more to me than my own. So, to the original ?, how long did it take your wife to get past the depression.


I see what you're saying, but is it ok for all those things to happen to your wife? How do you think I feel? I'm in an emotional pressure cooker, depressed to severe levels AND I am the sahm to 4 boys. We have been married 17 yrs, when do I matter? I honestly don't expect my husband to quit as I really do feel it is more important than me, but I do need to be told he would if it came down to it. I am desperate to find an answer. I will not leave him, b/c I would be miserable w/o him. ..so he sends me out. To be alone.

[QUOTE=GraceAnne;2464865] My husband and I talk. I feel ashamed b/c of the way I feel. But I also don't think that makes me a bad person. I am trying to force myself into being ok w/it.. If I could get past these inferior feelings, I think I might be cautiously ok w/ the cding. I would have no problem if it was my friend, neighbor, brother, whomever.

Yes, I know I have to work on conciously changing the way I think. And I do a good job for a few days (this last stretch of 5 days was the longest and wonderful).
/QUOTE]

GraceAnn: I do not have an SO at this time..but I'm sure that if I "choose" to continue this, it is something that I would share at the very beginning of a relationship since no person should have this bombshell dropped on them (if the cd/ts, etc is aware of it at that time) later in a relationship.

Grace, please join the F.A.B. section when you are able to so you get more insight from others who may have or are going through this..but you have more than just 'can I accept this?' to deal with, your depression brings alot..and other questions of where you 'fit'.

I quoted some of your posts above to ask that when you do join FAB, please express these thoughts there too. Feeling ashamed when discussing things, or questioning 'what about me?'..etc.. I hope the best for YOU..k? YOU..remember that, you are as much a part of the marriage as your husband..

Even though dressing was not the cause of my divorce 3 yrs ago, the 'what about me?' was..and it was me asking this question until I had enough. Sacrificing/comprimising is expected, but when you lose yourself in it all..sometimes choices have to be made to find yourself again.

Take care,
Marissa

[Allsteamedup]

Dear GraceAnne, You've got a couple of things going on here.
For some peculiar reason no-one can put a name to, pregnancy often sends your cding partner into dressing overdrive. It's happenened to me recently because we've become grand-parents. It's taken the lady who runs the UK site to remind me.
Your depression is probably allied to the way you now view your own sexuality. Can there be anything worse than feeling low about yourself and feeling challenged by your husband's female self? Not for me there isn't.
Get your posts in and come and join Female at Birth. You can say and think what you like: we've all been where you are now.
Enjoy your babies. I lost time with mine, as that was when my husband chose to come out. Choose them.

[J'lyn GG]

I want to thank every1 for taking the time to post. I feel the need to explain a little. I hit rock bottom on my spiral yesterday and reading some of the posts helped me to start climbing out. I am feeling better today. Hubby and I talked. ANd I think I have come to some realisations. When I am feeling good, I can see the big picture, when I am starting a spiral, its like I'm in a tunnel and the tunnel gets narrower and narrower and all I see is the cding.
Anyway, my husband has been great in all this. He has explained and explained. He has agreed to stop for a couple of months while we work on my depression. He feels bad for me, I feel bad for him. He is my soulmate, my best friend, my lover, my knight, my voice of reason.
I still don't understand why he wants to dress like a woman. I still have nagging thoughts about if I was more feminine dressing... (of course, I'm lucky if I have enough shirts to last the day, w/a 3mo old spitting up and a 2 yo 'accidentally' spilling on me)
Our main sticking point right now is those meetings. My husband is a professional in the upper mid-west and since he is our soul breadwinner, I fear him losing his job. Oh, I know they can't fire him for that, but they can find a reason.
Anyway, again, thank you. All I would ask is that those who feel it is just clothes or that a wife should just accept it already, you really should try to refrain from replying to this kind of post. Until you are on the receiving end of this news, you will never understand how much more than just clothes it is. And those who down talk to women who are trying, but are having difficulties just give cders a bad rap. Sorry, don't mean to come off as rude, but its my feelings/opinions.
Have a good day, everyone.

[Rachel05]

Grace Ann - I have been a cross dresser for about 43 years so way before I met my wife, we have been together for 30 years now and for probably 28 of them she didn't know about my dressing, but she discovered what I was doing a couple of years back and we had a chat about it there and then but we have never chatted since

She knows I can't stop, it is a huge part of who I am, I can't help it and I absolutely do not want to stop and doubt I could anyway, so she tolerates it

It hasn't harmed our marriage, I am very sensitive to her needs and I don't flash it at her, i never dress in the house when she is here and I don't leave my stuff around, I want her to be more involved, i really would love that, but I still think in time she will accept it, she accepts me just not "it"

It is not a competition and no one has to be hurt, if he is like me then he needs CDing because it is part of his make up, but I love my wife totally, this is nothing she has done to cause this and it is nothing to do with sexual gratification or anything like that for me, it is just I love to dress in women's clothes, it makes me feel very nice to do so as has done for most of my life, way before my wife came along

Not sure if that helps or not, but he still loves you the same as he did the day before you found out !!

[Fractured]

I still don't understand why he wants to dress like a woman. I still have nagging thoughts about if I was more feminine dressing... (of course, I'm lucky if I have enough shirts to last the day, w/a 3mo old spitting up and a 2 yo 'accidentally' spilling on me)
My SO confided to me that sometimes she feels the same way. She's said that maybe if she wore jewelry, if she wore make-up, if she wore...etc. I can understand that concern - you are trying to find something logical that can explain this desire to do something that only a small fraction of a population does and it just happens that the activity is frowned upon by society.

As for my SO getting past the depression, I'm not sure she has. I haven't pushed too hard (lack of time and funds can do wonders for limiting CDing ;) ). We can talk about it and I can get a rolled eyes combined with a chuckle. Not much beyond that.

[Tina B.]

GraceAnne, It's not surprising you don't know why he wants to dress up like a woman. I've been doing it for 61 years, and I don't know why, I just know I must. Now and then my wife goes through that same thing, maybe I should dress up more, NO,NO,NO! It's not a competition, dressing up and looking pretty will not help a CD to not desire to dress, it just won't. If anything, the more I'm around women, and very feminine things, it increases the desire. As I've told my wife, my dressing is about me, not her. I dressed before her, and if anything where to happen to her, I would be dressing without her, that is a constant. You say sometimes you think the dressing is more important than you, and if he cared we could stop to make you happy, what if he said, if you really loved me, you would be happy, happy for me, happy about our lives, and if your depressed, then you must not love me? See that does not compute, your love for him has nothing to do with your depression, just as his dressing has nothing to do with his love for you. I hope you the two of you can find your way through all of this, it sounds like a lot of love there really, you just have to get past all the junk.
Tina B.