CD's vs GG's knowledge on things

[WsprsOnTheWind]

This might be in the wrong section. If so forgive me. Better to ask forgiveness later as permission up front. :D

This has been a question on my mind for a few days and I haven't posted it b/c I wasn't sure which section to put it in but I'm not going to worry about that. I am sure a mod will move it if it's in the wrong place.

What has been your observations as to CD's having broader knowledge of clothing, accessories, makeup, apparel, etc?

I ask this b/c I go through life never caring what brand something is. I can't look at another woman and say those shoes are so-n-so and cost whatever. For one thing I don't wear heels so it's irrelevant to me. I also wear whatever I like b/c I like it and it's comfortable or in my price range. Knowing the top stylists, fashions, shoe makers, make up makers/artists, etc. is not something I ever felt the need to do.

It seems to me that the CD is much more aware of these details.

Opinions and observations?

[ReineD]

If your question is aimed at mostly the CDers, then your post is in the right section. :) Also, you are not asking about a specific beauty product, so your question does not belong in the Beauty section.

So, assuming anyone can answer, here is my opinion:

Contrary to the popular belief that all GGs are experts, I have spent very little time in my life learning about fashion and makeup. I've spent most of my life not wearing any makeup at all, and wearing easy wash 'n wear clothes while my kids were growing up. Most of my knowledge has been acquired by picking up a product with intriguing packaging as I walk by and deciding to try it out, or reading random ads online or in magazines that strike my fancy. I've never been on a mission to find "the" best lipstick, foundation, epilation method, panty hose with the largest denier, etc. My fashion sense has been influenced by the ads I see in magazines, but mostly by the styles that are available in the shops and department stores I've been into.

So ... I consider the CDers who've spent countless hours studying the fashions and makeup applications on models and other women to be much more expert in these things as I am! :) I've taken to going to the beauty section when I have questions about the *best* mascara for example.

If someone else is more interested in presentation that me and has done all the work, why not avail myself of their expertise? :D

[Kathi Lake]

Wsprs,

No, there is nothing magical about CDs and their obsession on labels, brands, etc. A lot of us are essentially playing 'catch-up' in the arena of what we perceive to be "Womanly Arts", and are going at it in a sometimes stereotypical male fashion - we have a problem, and the solution is study and application. Many of us think that women pay attention to every little detail of their appearance, and so therefore must we.

Then again, some of us just like fashion! I know I always have. If I see a woman with a cute pair of shoes or a skirt or top in a style I particularly like - one that I could see myself in - I ask her where she got it and what brand it is (after telling her how fabulous it looks on her, of course! :)). That way, I can decide whether or not I like styles from that designer, want to get one for myself, etc.

Kathi

[Tina B.]

Like ReineD, I just know what I like, I'm more the pick it up and feel it type, I shop line of sight. What I know about fashion I learn watching reality TV, such as top Model, and project runway. Make up is what caches my eye while in the drug store. the wife and I both shop in this manner.
Tina B.

[Megan70]

I have written before roughly equating this subject in the beauty section once and it was an arguement over foundation: Drugstore vs. High end dept. store or Mac etc. Also shoes, Payless vs. expensive $100= heels or flats. My argument and opinion is that in the end NO ONE can tell the difference of what you are wearing, makeup, wigs, shoes, hoisery etc. I defy anyone to say they can tell that one girl next to me is wearing MAC or Clinque foundation vs. my $8.00 Maybelleine Wonder Finish.only I will Know the look and results are the same. I swear that about wigs too. I've never spent more than $50 on a Paula Young wig mail order and they look just as good as expensive $300 ones that look identical and are marked up 500% of what they should be.
No , for me designer or high end this or that is a lot of Phooey, its what I can afford and looks good.

[Kate Simmons]

Beats me on that account Hon. I always went for what worked for me and what was within my budget. Designer clothes were never my objective, expression was.:)

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

I have never been one for labels, really could not care about what the label states but I do love mixing items I like because they look nice and achieving the look I desire. If I see something in the rubbish and I can see it having the potential for me to accomplish a specific role I pick it up and use it, I do not really care about its past, I intend it to have a future with me. Sales are great because I research an article of clothing and see potential and so for $5 or $10 I can end up with a gorgeous creation that is mostly Mine because I change and modify the garment.
I do always look at fashion and see what the designers accomplish in progressing ideas but creativity is what I enjoy and I like to take something that has one use and incorporate it into my project where it may have an entirely different use. Heck and being a CD allows me to be more creative because I adore female fashion. In male mode I am a real slob, in female mode I envisage myself going to fashion parades, art galleries and parties discussing fashion, art and trends promoting myself as an elegant, stylish and yet flamboyant trendie.

[BRANDYJ]

Ya mean I'm a normal everyday CD? More like a GG based on Reine and wsprs thoughts and feelings abut what they wear. I have never been into labels or brands. In fact, ya might say I'm the opposite considering that I believe those famous name brands are just grossly over-priced articles playing on someone's vanity. Way back when the term "designer jeans" cropped up somewhere around 1968-1970, I remember telling everyone that I will pay $60.00 for a pair of jeans ONLY when it's my name sewn on the rump! lol I like what I like regardless of the price or who made it. Same for make up or shoes. So call me frugal or call me cheap, but you will never see me in so called designer fashions.

[sandra-leigh]

I don't pay attention to "fashion"; my wife does (to some extent.) I don't read the Elle or whatever magazines that she sometimes buys, and I don't buy things because they are "in": I buy them because I like them. My wife is certainly not a "fashionista", but she does, for example, recognize Guicci on sight.

I do, though, know more about bras than my wife does. Not about what is "in" for bras, but about the varieties available. I own at least 20 bras -- but these days now that I wear a bra nearly every day, I usually wear the same few over and over again.

The things that I do know more than my wife about, come about because I study and compare the available options for them, whereas my wife is much more of a person to look in only a small number of places before buying something.

[TGMarla]

My wife and I were walking down South Beach once, and out of curiosity (mostly because he'd just been shot), we ducked into the Versace store. We were amazed at the prices, even knowing they were going to be expensive. But $400.00 for a skimpy little halter top? It was pretty, and of nice quality, but please!

Because I browse Ebay for things to wear, I have come to recognize a few name labels, like Hal Fermin, Jessica McClintock, Al Shaheen, Lily Ann for Shuman, and a few others. But for the most part, if you were to whack me in the face label first with any clothing, I'd be hard-pressed to even begin a guess as to who made them.

[Leslie Langford]

Let me sum it up succinctly this way to illustrate how I see the issue, using the famous Avis Rent-A-Car slogan from their ad campaign of many years ago when they were competing neck and neck with Hertz:

"When you're No. 2, you have to try harder"

[ReineD]

One thing I have to say about "high end" brand names, it is the people who can afford them, women AND men, who are familiar with the labels. You know ... the type of people who can afford the $$$ products advertized in the NYT ... the Gucci, Rolex, Prada, Armani suits for men, or whatever high end furniture/tableware design there is, who can and do discriminate. I suppose these things matter to them. If I were weathly, no doubt I'd acquire a taste for these things as well. :) But, I am not impressed by these things and I think people can look nice and have nice homes without them.

[James Kaon]

It is an interesting question because i never knew who wolford was until i tried wearing tights 5 months ago... I only learnt about them because i tried different designers - and i discovered that with lingerie (I am a fetish CDer), it really is about what you pay for. I found that some labels felt better than others. It seems that some of the most well known are actually better. Not all but many. So, for me, its not about who I am wearing, its about the quality. I now know certain designers are better than others. I dont give a flying **** who it is because it is pretty unlikely someone will see me in it. It is fun to say, oh this is falke, wolford, transparenze etc but thats because I know that girls will know they r a good and trusted brand - not because i have some vanity in it. Vanity would imply I feel like a diva. I dont :)))))

jmho
Jx

[WsprsOnTheWind]

One thing I have to say about "high end" brand names, it is the people who can afford them, women AND men, who are familiar with the labels. You know ... the type of people who can afford the $$$ products advertized in the NYT ... the Gucci, Rolex, Prada, Armani suits for men, or whatever high end furniture/tableware design there is, who can and do discriminate. I suppose these things matter to them. If I were weathly, no doubt I'd acquire a taste for these things as well. :) But, I am not impressed by these things and I think people can look nice and have nice homes without them.

I've thought that too at times but then again I think I'd still enjoy buying from thrift stores. I'm not sure I'd pay top dollar for every thing even if I was rich. I'm not so I really don't know for sure.

I agree with your first post totally.

This has been another misconception I had of CD's. I'm so glad I came back here and started posting. It's great to know that it's not common for the "entitlement" factor.

Brandy, I LMAO about your comment of your name being on the RUMP! Bout fell outta my seat but then I have an odd sense of humor and that just struck me as funny.

Honestly, if someone told me a brand they were wearing I wouldn't know it was designer or Wal-Mart. I'm a thrift store queen. It's a fun challenge for me.

[Mary Morgan]

I shop on Ebay, at Kohls, Walmart, Gordman's, Target, Marshall's, thrift stores, wherever, and I do not look at labels. I buy what I like and I like what i buy. I have no idea what motivates anyone else, but I do appreciate a well coordinated ensemble.

[Cheryl T]

I ask this b/c I go through life never caring what brand something is. I can't look at another woman and say those shoes are so-n-so and cost whatever. For one thing I don't wear heels so it's irrelevant to me. I also wear whatever I like b/c I like it and it's comfortable or in my price range. Knowing the top stylists, fashions, shoe makers, make up makers/artists, etc. is not something I ever felt the need to do.



I for one am like you Wsprs. I don't care about the brand or the designer. I like something because it fits, it's flattering and it's the right price. If a certain makeup performs well that is more important than who makes it. I've never been much for brand loyalty.
I think that most of us CD's spend more time "learning" about such things because we need to have a greater knowledge base. We need to know what foundation will cover well, we need to know what brands fit well and last because we don't have the luxury of huge wardrobes (for the most part...lol).
It's all a matter of necessity.

[Eryn]

Frankly, my wife and I can't afford to buy designer labels. We do occasionally walk through an upper-crust store and marvel at the prices, though. $120 for plastic flip-flops? :eek:

Concerning knowledge, I think that many CDers might have a higher level of knowledge than many GGs simply because clothing holds a more intense interest for many of us.

[Marissa]

Wsprs, I'm not trying to put labels out there, but IMHO :D and my views..if you are asking these questions in a broad sense..you have some good answers but if you go with just plain ole crossdressers such as me (those who are not in the wrong body, don't want 24/7, are not transitioning) then I would say its not about labels per sa, but more about what looks trendy.. hope that is the right way to say it. For those that I put in parenthese, most are likely to grab what feels comfortable or as termed 'normal' daily wear..so they have the fashion down pact. For those of us who just dress at various times cause we enjoy it and its more meant to draw attention just like any girl who goes clubbing, I for one just go with what is deemed approatiate for the setting which includes dressing, makeup, heels, etc. But to put it all together can take visits to various stores as Mary Morgan says.

Only difference may be that I for one would try to get it right for the 'red carpet', not that stroll down the street in light of day..

So I may tend to think or say that 'that does not go with that'..or 'nice jeans'..where you would not even bat an eye...

Its not that we are more knowledgeable, just more perseptive to those things. IMHO.. :D

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Marissa,

Good points. I'm sure you are more perceptive to what I would take for granted. It takes an act of congress to get me to dress in formal clothing and heels that hurt. To me they are torture devices as you would see it as something wonderful but then for me it's an option to do it any time so it's no big thing.

[Babeba]

One thing I have to say about "high end" brand names, it is the people who can afford them, women AND men, who are familiar with the labels. You know ... the type of people who can afford the $$$ products advertized in the NYT ... the Gucci, Rolex, Prada, Armani suits for men, or whatever high end furniture/tableware design there is, who can and do discriminate. I suppose these things matter to them. If I were weathly, no doubt I'd acquire a taste for these things as well. :) But, I am not impressed by these things and I think people can look nice and have nice homes without them.

I don't know that you would, Reine! You strike me as the type that would rather spend your money travelling, tasting exotic foods, and getting experiences rather than objects.

I've got a friend who LOVES designer, and buys it pretty regularly (whenever she can afford it). She was always super jealous of me getting to go on trips, though, and it always seemed to me that if she hadn't bought the designer stuff she could have travelled as much as I did in the same period of time - especially since I often stretch my travel budget with hostels and public transportation.

As for clothing - every time I learn more about fashion, I realise that there's more out there to know than any one person will ever be able to totally master!

[Crafty]

Brands may come in handy if you are hard to fit or shop over the internet. I love the fit and feel of Clarks shoes. Otherwise names don't impress me just get the right fit!

[Fran Moore]

But more about.....how you wear it. Whether it's makeup, clothes, shoes, etc. I think it really boils down to the individual. There are many CD's who have very good taste and "high dollar closets", and many women who chose to keep it simple and basic. On the other hand there are many CD's who are either new to the scene, or really don't care, and just do the best they can. Many of them are looking for affirmation on this site every week, trying to "get it right".

The problem for many is that it's not just the "look", but the whole "package" of presentation, that may be difficult. This comes naturally for many GG's, or with many years of practice and feedback from their peers. For me, an individual can be attractive, regardless of gender by how they walk, talk, smile and carry themselves no matter how expensive or extensive the outer wrapping might be......:battingeyelashes:

[WsprsOnTheWind]

I find it surprising that some CD's are very tasteful and chic when dressed but don't care what they look like when not dressed. That bothered me in my situation.

[Fab Karen]

Observation of reality: People are individuals, whether GG, T-girl, T-guy, man, black, white, etc. etc. generalizing about any group will never be accurate. Some GG's have broader knowledge of clothing, accessories, makeup, apparel, etc. & SOME DON'T. Same for T-girls, some do, some don't, not BECAUSE they're a GG or a T-girl.
On a tangent, look at the MOST EXPENSIVE shoes, some of them are bizarre.

On the subject of trendy: Pet Rocks were trendy. They aren't now.

[Fran Moore]

Funny that you should mention that Wsprs, as that is exactly how I am. Perhaps a bit of "push back" for the lack of general understanding and acceptance by the majority, for those of us who are TG? In essence, I refuse to appear more "handsome" or "stylish" in drab, until I can be accepted for who I am when crossdressed......

[Rogina B]

For some of us,our boy world is one in that"we have to get it done". Clothing and appearance are just collateral damage. However,when in girl mode,we are WAY different! lol Males are heavily judged on what they actually do and not on how they look while doing it. Perhaps that is why many of us are so very tired of being the working dog.

[Dr.Susan]

I find it surprising that some CD's are very tasteful and chic when dressed but don't care what they look like when not dressed. That bothered me in my situation.

I kind of agree.
I believe a well dressed man makes a well dressed CD, if they are one. Taste and style know no gender.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

I kind of agree.
I believe a well dressed man makes a well dressed CD, if they are one. Taste and style know no gender.

I couldn't have said it better. Why wouldn't you want to look good when out with your GG? Going out wearing a wrinkled shirt just screams of how little you care how your represent this person when you are with them. When I am in a relationship with a man I feel like I represent him and what I look like speaks about him and vice versa. Maybe that's just me. I always want to look my best even when I'm in jeans and a baggy sweater. All wrinkles are ironed out, the make up and hair is always done.

[Marissa]

Wsprs, you are taking what even a gg would do..dress up for a night on the town or dinner, etc..but baggy sweats and a t-shirt to go up to the market, etc. So as a guy, I would do the same.. but I would definately fit in dress on where I would go with a date.. So, that means in my so call drab mode, its ragged jeans and a t-shirt :) similuar to a gg in daily tasks.. :)

But I will say that going out dressed, I put more into that then as a man going out.. :)

[Fran Moore]

I would happily "look good" when out with my GG if she would show the least bit of acceptance and understanding to the fact that I am transgendered. Unfortunately, she does not. It's like taxation without representation. I believe some folks might refer to that as "compromise".
I couldn't have said it better. Why wouldn't you want to look good when out with your GG? Going out wearing a wrinkled shirt just screams of how little you care how your represent this person when you are with them. When I am in a relationship with a man I feel like I represent him and what I look like speaks about him and vice versa. Maybe that's just me. I always want to look my best even when I'm in jeans and a baggy sweater. All wrinkles are ironed out, the make up and hair is always done.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Then why be with her if it bothers you that she doesn't accept your transgender? Perhaps she would say that she is compromising already. If it means more to you to be with her w/o her acceptance than to be w/o her then I think you should still look your best (just my opinion). It sounds like your relationship could be headed for problems if this is how you are feeling.


Wsprs, you are taking what even a gg would do..dress up for a night on the town or dinner, etc..but baggy sweats and a t-shirt to go up to the market, etc. So as a guy, I would do the same.. but I would definately fit in dress on where I would go with a date.. So, that means in my so call drab mode, its ragged jeans and a t-shirt :) similuar to a gg in daily tasks.. :)

But I will say that going out dressed, I put more into that then as a man going out.. :)

Lets be honest here, there are more options for women when it comes to dressing up than there are men. So, there's really not that much that men have to do when dressing to go out other than shower, shave, throw on cologne, brush teeth and get dressed. Women have to shave, do makeup, put on hose and all the other torture devices and heels. Men have a choice of 2/3 diff color slacks or suits women's choices in styles and colors are boundless.

[Fran Moore]

I would happily discuss that with you if you would like to PM me Wsprs, however I think we are getting off topic here from your OP........
Then why be with her if it bothers you that she doesn't accept your transgender? Perhaps she would say that she is compromising already. If it means more to you to be with her w/o her acceptance than to be w/o her then I think you should still look your best. It sounds like your relationship could be headed for problems if this is how you are feeling.

[cassandra.932]

I think I have more passion in at least some of womens clothing more than most GG. For example, I know more about nylons - stockings and pantyhose because of the experience gain when shopping and reading about them more than most GG would do. Therefore, it would not be a supprise if CD know more about GG in general. However, in term of numbers, we CD is a rare and special breed of people.

[Julogden]

I'm not into high-end stuff, never could afford it, and even if I won the lottery, I wouldn't buy the insanely expensive fashions. I just buy stuff that I like, and the less I spend, the better. I'm not into high fashion stuff at all.

I do have a couple dresses from Spiegel that cost around $100 each, that's about as expensive as I'll consider, and 98% of my clothes cost way less than that. I have to spend more on shoes though, as the really large sizes are usually more expensive than I like, but I have no choice unless I want to wear men's shoes or go barefoot. :(

I'm most comfortable in jeans or leggings, a skirt in warmer weather, and a nice-looking, comfortable top, or a pretty, comfortable dress in warmer weather, and I prefer flats or sandals to heels. If I'm going out, then I'll dress up more.

I do really enjoy experimenting with makeup, as I find it fascinating. I could get carried away with buying expensive makeup if I had lots of money. I know a lot about makeup and how to apply it, so I think maybe I do know more about makeup than the average woman. I seriously considered going to school to become a makeup artist, but didn't, unfortunately.

Carol

[erica12b]

one of the things i notice is in guy mode i half to dress down (try and not match ) when i do i get the odd looks from other guys , so i dress river rafter style , when i see a girls outfit i like i half to just note it and go on , my wardrobe is so peiced together , i call it snach and grab shopping style

i never go out dressed, so im shopping in guy mode , see something i like , walk by , walk by, grab something male (shirt socks something ) then walk by make sure no sales lady's around , walk over scan sizes quick grad , head to check out guy stuff on top, take out cell talk on cell to fake gf , at casher say ok ill get your stuff and meet you at the some place pay go home look at it try it on and shit the hanger says large but the dress is small looks like sh&t but the feel is ok nice and tight (kind of painted on ) im not going to go out in it no one will ever see me in it ok ill keep it (for now ) what was the name of the brand ?

[sandra-leigh]

Brands may come in handy if you are hard to fit or shop over the internet. I love the fit and feel of Clarks shoes.

Clark Wallabies used to be one of the very few men's shoes I could find that would fit me properly (back before they moved production entirely to the third world). I used to have to spend $180 - $280 per pair of shoes because the less expensive shoes would hurt my feet too much.

There are a lot of women's shoes that don't fit me, but I find it considerably easier to find something wearable in women's (size 12!) than I did in mens'. Sure, some of the $20 shoes aren't going to last well, but if I can get my foot in and they don't pinch my toe and aren't too long, they are probably wearable "off the shelf" from Payless rather than me having to go to specialty shops to find a mens' that has the supports in the right place for me. I had to "take what I can get" with mens', but with womens' it becomes much more an issue of finding something I like.


I find it surprising that some CD's are very tasteful and chic when dressed but don't care what they look like when not dressed. That bothered me in my situation.

I would have driven you crazy, then. Not that I was ever a "sweats" kind of guy, but I would, for example, wear odd T-shirts to the office. I could have afforded decent suits but I didn't like wearing them. And I hated ties. A lumberjack shirt one day, a Greatfull Dead T-shirt the next, a polo shirt the next day... whatever came to hand. Looking for "nice clothes" in the mens' department was something I mostly protested doing. Give me a counter-culture shop, or let me buy something at a Folk Festival!

I didn't wear trash, but my look was decidedly non-corporate and eclectic, and if people wanted to think that this pinkish shirt means I must be gay, they were welcome to jump to conclusions.

It would probably be fair to say that I was more of a "rebel" when I wore mens' clothes than I am now that I only wear womens'. Sure it is odd for an apparent guy to be wearing a white cotton shirt with embroidery (i.e., a blouse), but my choices are more main-stream than they were before.



I do have a couple dresses from Spiegel that cost around $100 each, that's about as expensive as I'll consider, and 98% of my clothes cost way less than that.

I have some dresses that were originally $370 each (but which I got at 70% off): they are well worth the price of over $100 as they are classic linen dresses that will wear well and which can be used in anything from the office to an evening out with friends to Going Out. I didn't buy them because they were expensive or because they were a particular brand: I recognized that they were quality in the better sense of the word and I was prepared to pay for that quality.

[Diane Smith]

I like to wear good looking and well-made clothes, so I avoid most really cheap stuff and shop mainstream mall stores and local boutiques for the most part. But I'm not very label conscious.

I do think many CDers, including myself, enjoy the "craft" of dressing up, and a big part of that is being conscious of styles, brand names and shopping opportunities. I'm not as picky about my outerwear, but I can tell you quite a bit about high-end women's shoes, for example. This is more out of curiosity and simple hobby-type interest than any actual necessity, however.

Another issue (which somes up here a lot) is that we do as a group start out behind natal women in looking naturally and gracefully feminine, and we need to acquire all the knowledge we can about clothes, shoes, hair, makeup, etc. so we can perhaps go just a little beyond the average woman's typical daily style and distract viewers a bit away from the masculine features that conflict with our desired presentation.

- Diane

[Vickie_CDTV]

One thing to remember is that for those of us who are partially or completely oversized as women, it is difficult or impossible to find high end designer clothes and shoes that fit (especially shoes) and it isn't an option to begin with. For example, Jimmy Choo does not make shoes over a size 10, and a fair number of us wear over a 10.

As for fashion, I don't really pay attention to what is "in" or not, I just wear what I like. Sheer hosiery was considered a fashion "don't" for years, but I didn't care and always wore stockings (and still do.)

[Sara Jessica]

Observation of reality: People are individuals, whether GG, T-girl, T-guy, man, black, white, etc. etc. generalizing about any group will never be accurate. Some GG's have broader knowledge of clothing, accessories, makeup, apparel, etc. & SOME DON'T. Same for T-girls, some do, some don't, not BECAUSE they're a GG or a T-girl.

What Karen is saying really captures the essence when answering the OP.

And considering she is usually the first to rebut my espousing the virtues of higher-end stuff, it shows that she really sees the big picture.

My take on this is that there are clothes, there is style, there are labels, and then there are LABELS. I'm not so familiar with anyone in these pages who regularly partakes in the uber-designers such as Chanel, Prada, etc. so I'll exclude the very top end from my discussion.

Yes, I am a label queen and am proud of it. Most of what I gravitate towards is mid-level designers. While some in these pages (and this is clearly true of many natal women as well) might simply gravitate towards whatever catches their eye provided it meets a desired price-point, the boutiques I shop consistently carry these mid-level brands & once I find a style I adore, I know there will be others to follow in seasons to come. Once I come to know a particular label, I can spot it across the room whether it is on a hangar or if another woman is wearing it. So just as Karen says, that some women pay attention to this stuff (& some don't), likewise some in our community do the same. Those who do are likely to comment to one another. Wear "a top" and no one says anything beyond "hey, cute top". Where "the top" and prepare to be mugged, the comments can be endless. And shoes? Nothing attracts a fashionista's attention like "the" perfect shoes. I think many more women are in the know, especially when it comes to shoes and handbags, than credit is given for.

A common theme in this thread though is that many respondents simply buy what catches their eye, matches their budget, etc. Any time you return to a particular store, or a particular section within, where you know you've found something before, you are really following the exact same shopping pattern. Case in point, my wife isn't as much into the label thing as I but when she shops at Macy's, the first section she goes to happens to be INC International Concepts. This private label of theirs produces a wide variety of styles from casual to dressy and everywhere in between. She enjoys the styles, knows they fit her well and are at price points she can depend on. So without going high-end, she is still demonstrating some brand loyalty in returning to INC season after season which shows that even when we don't think we're paying attention, we actually are.

[Tina B.]

I find it surprising that some CD's are very tasteful and chic when dressed but don't care what they look like when not dressed. That bothered me in my situation.

Wsprs, there is no surprise in that, you put your effort where you interest lies. If I have $100 to spend, I would rather find a skirt or blouse, pair of shoes, or piece of jewelry, than to spend it on a pair of slacks and a tie. If I need a peace of male clothing, then it's run in grab something cheap, and hurry and get out. Thanks to my wife, I do have some decent things to wear, but it had nothing to do with my shopping.
Tina B.

[charlie]

Thinking about myself, I knew very little about any beauty product when I seriously started CD. So I bought a book that told me how to put on makeup. I then went to a beauty store and bought the list of items that the makeup book said I needed. When one of the products were too hard to use or not great, I went to the drug store and asked which product was best and what my problem was. As for fashion, I go to trendy stores and buy what is good looking to me. I don't like spending lots of money. I go to places like Kohls, Forever 21, and JC Penny. I just want up to date fashions at a reasonable price. I can't believe that women (GG) don't do the same.

[Kathi Lake]

Wsprs,

Although I do try to be the man on my wife's arm that, when we walk into a room, makes other women wish they were her with my style, I can't, to an extent.

The problem? Men's clothes just do not fit me. Most men's dress pants start - start - at a 32-inch waist. Occasionally, you will find one with a 30-in waist. However, the inseams are usually around 30 to 32 inches at those smaller waist sizes. I, being a freak, currently have between a 26 and a 27-inch waist, and a 35-inch inseam. So, in order to fight my pants' normal reactions to gravity, I am forced to cinch my pants like Lil' Abner, looking like I'm wearing a gunny sack around my waist. Sure, my shirts are nicely-ironed, but on a whole, it just does not look right. :)

So, I try to dress nicely, but am usually in T-shirts and jeans (I can usually find some boy's jeans at near the right waist and length, but not dress pants. Odd, eh?)

:)

Kathi

[Charise52]

My GG friends are very fashion concsious yet they are very cost conscious at the same time... so i learn from them...

[carhill2mn]

There is a great deal of variance among CDs re: knowledge on these subjects just as there is among GWs. Some CDs are very knowledgeable and others have no clue.

[ReineD]

I find it surprising that some CD's are very tasteful and chic when dressed but don't care what they look like when not dressed. That bothered me in my situation.

I've noticed the same in various threads here through the years: CDers who say they will go all out with their femme wardrobes, but don't care at all how they present in guy mode.

I'm not bothered by this, but I am perplexed. :p

I started a thread a few years ago and asked why this is. My immediate thought was that many CDers are subconsciously angry or resentful to "have" to present in guy mode most of the time, so not taking pride in their male appearance is a way to rebel against the system for lack of a better term (not all CDers mind you, just those who say they don't care about their male appearance). But no. The majority of the CDers who fit this pattern said they believe that MOST guys don't care how they look; in other words, it is natural for a guy to not pay attention to his appearance when he goes out.

This doesn't make sense to me, because most of the non-CDers I know (beyond college age) do have a variety of looks for different occasions (suits, jackets, shirts, shoes that are not sneakers, and pants that are more stylish than jeans, etc). So again, for the CDers who do fit this pattern (I don't want to generalize), maybe it has more to do with an unwillingness to "waste" good money on guy clothes in favor of increasing the femme wardrobe? But the question still remains: why don't they care about their appearance in male mode when they are particular about their femme appearance?

[Marissa]

** quote modified**

Lets be honest here, there are more options for women when it comes to dressing up than there are men. So, there's really not that much that men have to do when dressing to go out other than shower, shave, throw on cologne, brush teeth and get dressed. Women have to shave, do makeup, put on hose and all the other torture devices and heels. Men have a choice of 2/3 diff color slacks or suits women's choices in styles and colors are boundless.

LOL..first let me say thank you for being able to understand what I wrote..talk about some misspellings and wording.. anyway, I do agree on it not taking much for a man to get it all together for a night out :) and uhhh fortunately, being a crossdressing who has to allow at least two hours to prep, I do know what you mean about all the bs that some women have to go through...and for what???? so no one says a compliment ;)

So why do I do all of this??????? LOL...oh, yes..for all those cute outfits and jewlry.. :)

[Amy Lynn3]

Whisper, I have said this in other threads, but I enjoy looking my best in both worlds. I love to wear suits or sport coat and tie and maybe even nice sport cloths.

I think lots deal with the fact we cders must teach ourselves the female world of cloths, shoes and makeup. We attempt to do the best job possible with picking female attire. I want to do justice to the cloths I pick, plus the women of the world I desire to look like. I also had to learn what were the better male cloths and shoes to buy, to look my best.

It may work the other way for you, by that I mean....you may do a better job of picking male cloths. I say that, because when I was married my wife had a better eye for what would look better on me as I did for her.

[Eryn]

My immediate thought was that many CDers are subconsciously angry or resentful to "have" to present in guy mode most of the time, so not taking pride in their male appearance is a way to rebel against the system for lack of a better term (not all CDers mind you, just those who say they don't care about their male appearance). But no. The majority of the CDers who fit this pattern said they believe that MOST guys don't care how they look; in other words, it is natural for a guy to not pay attention to his appearance when he goes out.

Hmm, interesting idea. However, with me, my male presentation has improved since I become more aware of the breadth of my CDing. It might have something to do with reduced depression or simply be a by-product of the increased attention to clothes, grooming and skin care inherent in CDing. I shave more often and throughly, epilate, wear nicer jeans that fit better (Another question: Why do woman's jeans fit my typically male body better than mens' jeans?), pay better attention to colors, etc. I've had positive comments from the GGs I work with about my looking more youthful, better dressed, etc. Not bad for my ego.

Of course, the singular of data is anecdote, but I think that there are as many different answers to this question as there are CDers.

Here's another angle to think about: Most CDers are heterosexual and don't wish to be identified as gay. Do they perceive interest in male fashion to be a homosexual trait with which they don't wish to be identified?

[Fran Moore]

That is an interesting concept Eryn (the gay part). Also consider that it may have something to do occupation, and geographical location. Personally, I would agree that many of us do take better care of ourselves when it comes to personal hygiene. I would also like to add that many of us also eat healthier and maintain our weight and figures as a result of our CDing.

Suzanne
Hmm, interesting idea. However, with me, my male presentation has improved since I become more aware of the breadth of my CDing. It might have something to do with reduced depression or simply be a by-product of the increased attention to clothes, grooming and skin care inherent in CDing. I shave more often and throughly, epilate, wear nicer jeans that fit better (Another question: Why do woman's jeans fit my typically male body better than mens' jeans?), pay better attention to colors, etc. I've had positive comments from the GGs I work with about my looking more youthful, better dressed, etc. Not bad for my ego.

Of course, the singular of data is anecdote, but I think that there are as many different answers to this question as there are CDers.

Here's another angle to think about: Most CDers are heterosexual and don't wish to be identified as gay. Do they perceive interest in male fashion to be a homosexual trait with which they don't wish to be identified?

[Fab Karen]

She enjoys the styles, knows they fit her well and are at price points she can depend on. So without going high-end, she is still demonstrating some brand loyalty in returning to INC season after season which shows that even when we don't think we're paying attention, we actually are.
Brand loyalty because she likes what they produce and the price, not because it says "INC" ( or whatever ) on the product. It's ok if buying designer labels give you some sort of kick ( and you can afford them ):hugs: - my big point about it is for others to know they don't have to pay top dollar for quality- for example you don't have to use MAC products to look good.

[Patty B.]

When in drab I do dress approiately, I do like to look good when with my wife. If we are hiking or going out to dinner then I will wear whats approiate. When going the barn, thats a different story.

[Shelly Preston]

I think most of us learn about fashion and make up as we feel its something that passed most of by as teenagers
The make up knowledges is about finding out what works best for each individual. Sometimes its about finding about what is the best value for money. I am sure we can all name or remember buying the lipstick which was not worth the money we paid for it. On other occasions you hear about sales of lipstick going up as its a sign of slight indulgance.


I've noticed the same in various threads here through the years: CDers who say they will go all out with their femme wardrobes, but don't care at all how they present in guy mode.

I'm not bothered by this, but I am perplexed. :p

I started a thread a few years ago and asked why this is. My immediate thought was that many CDers are subconsciously angry or resentful to "have" to present in guy mode most of the time, so not taking pride in their male appearance is a way to rebel against the system for lack of a better term (not all CDers mind you, just those who say they don't care about their male appearance). But no. The majority of the CDers who fit this pattern said they believe that MOST guys don't care how they look; in other words, it is natural for a guy to not pay attention to his appearance when he goes out.

This doesn't make sense to me, because most of the non-CDers I know (beyond college age) do have a variety of looks for different occasions (suits, jackets, shirts, shoes that are not sneakers, and pants that are more stylish than jeans, etc). So again, for the CDers who do fit this pattern (I don't want to generalize), maybe it has more to do with an unwillingness to "waste" good money on guy clothes in favor of increasing the femme wardrobe? But the question still remains: why don't they care about their appearance in male mode when they are particular about their femme appearance?

Not caring about the male appearence I think is a bit of a myth. I think its more like dressing for the occasion. e.g. I builder is unlikely to wear good clothes when going to work. Also going for a casual drink might just mean a quick change to a clean pair of jeans and a t shirt. This can be the same for most women but not always. It onyl takes a few minutes to put an outfit together and get out the door.

I suggest for those dressing trying to look there best will always take a little longer which gives the impression when looking back they dont care about their male appearance as it takes less time. Having seen the boy/girl thread a lot can look good can look good in either mode.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Oh,

of cause i go for the top end im very fashon orientited it just has to be good . & only at the .......well now, yes ummm , second hand shops .

I cant afford all new every thing when your on a limited amount $ 500 yea not a lot a fortnight you have other things to attend to so clothes for me are ,i have enough as i prepeared some time ago for such a time as now , i do get very few clothes only as stated & shoes when i need them. my make up is very little as i dont use it much tho im out all the time . i know what i can & can not do after youv bugeted your money for years you just learn to save for things & thats what i do,

As a after thought my scottish backgrond may play a part as well....at least have a laugh......

...noeleena...

[Sara Jessica]

Brand loyalty because she likes what they produce and the price, not because it says "INC" ( or whatever ) on the product. It's ok if buying designer labels give you some sort of kick ( and you can afford them ):hugs: - my big point about it is for others to know they don't have to pay top dollar for quality- for example you don't have to use MAC products to look good.

That's a good point Karen. INC certainly doesn't carry the same cache as "Chanel" or something like that. But she's not likely to see a top similar to an INC style at the likes of Target and say "oooh, I gotta have that." Rather, her attention is focused on what is already tried and tested.

In other words, one can easily be a fan of any brand out there just as they might for the uber-designers which is a bit different than seeing clothing as something purely utilitarian (I'll buy it if I need it, if it fits OK and if it meets an acceptable price point). Some women actually find it enjoyable to find "the perfect" whatever it is they're looking for.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

For some reason my posts aren't showing up. I posted this question earlier but I can't see it so if it's a duplicate, OOPS!

How many of you that want to purchase only the best are okay with it if your wives or gg's do that also. I'm not talking about only clothings here but anything that she might want as some don't shop much for clothing. Would you be okay with her wanting what she considers "the best" or would you be put off by that?

[Dr.Susan]

For some reason my posts aren't showing up. I posted this question earlier but I can't see it so if it's a duplicate, OOPS!

How many of you that want to purchase only the best are okay with it if your wives or gg's do that also. I'm not talking about only clothings here but anything that she might want as some don't shop much for clothing. Would you be okay with her wanting what she considers "the best" or would you be put off by that?

My wife deserves to treat herself well because she treats me well. I never complain about anything she purchase for herself.