Now that is funny

[Emme]

Not to me! This past weekend I spent my first 3 days as a girl. I loaded my motor coach and headed to the CD meeting in Va.

I stopped at a food lion for groceries. My second visit to a grocery store as Emme...ever! I was calm and happy, I parked the coach, got my jacket and purse and headed the 80 yard acoss the parking lot to the store door. I had to pass between two young women in seperate cars, who were loing their grocier in the car.

As I passed between them all was well, until I got about 10 yards past. The woman who was doing all the talking suddenly went silent for 4 seconds and then she said" NOW THAT WAS FUNNY, ( pause) OH WELL"

We all know what was funny. I am so glad it happened early on. I heard it, but it is ok! I am comfortable in my own skin and my new sundress!
I came home and told my wife all about the fun I had.

[Danni Renee]

It is good to hear you had a good weekend. I think for me, a comment like that would have ruined my whole weekend. I am glad to see others are more comfortable and confident than me and I hope to one day join you.

[Eryn]

Hey, you had a good time and gave those ladies something to talk about to spice up their boring lives! It's a win-win! :)

[SarahMarie42]

I'm glad you're comfortable enough with yourself to not be bothered by such things, although I'm annoyed by the double standard present in our society. It's not humiliating for a woman to dress as a man because men are considered "superior" to women, but if a man dresses as a woman, that man has somehow debased himself and apparently deserves to be laughed at. That's why you should be comfortable...those who would find it funny are just stupid.

[ReineD]

Emme, it would be so nice if people could just remember that everyone has feelings. I can't understand anyone who would say something like this. Even if they don't agree, at least they could give you the respect you deserve and allow that you will present however you wish to present. This makes me angry. Had I been there, I would have turned around and asked what, exactly, was so funny? :Angry3:


It's not humiliating for a woman to dress as a man

SarahMarie, how many women do you actually know who walk around presenting as men? If you saunter over to the FtM section, you'll see they have just as many difficulties being accepted as you do.

[SarahMarie42]

Nononono, not the transmasculine people...I guess I need to clarify, as one can't say much here without offending someone xD. I would say that a man dressing as a woman is considered debasement, whereas transmasculinity is viewed as being wrong or strange. I'm saying that someone who would present as a male and wear a skirt and tights or something would be considered to be debasing himself, whereas a woman wearing a suit is just fine. I just think that such things are reflective of our patriarchal tendencies, that's all.

[ReineD]

I'm saying that someone who would present as a male and wear a skirt and tights or something would be considered to be debasing himself

But that's just it! The overwhelming majority of MtF members here who suffer the discrimination present as women and not as a male wearing a skirt and tights. We have a few who do present the way you suggest, one member is successful at it as far as I know, but certainly not most. In fact, most of the CDers here would be mortified to be seen or taken as a guy in a dress.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

[SarahMarie42]

I don't really care, I'm not a gender theorist, and it's 1:00 AM. I was just stating my opinion (I do not like our patriarchal culture), but maybe I should make my signature a disclaimer.

(Also, I don't really hang around the transmasculine forums and research everyone here, I just leave people to their business.)

If I seem hostile, I'm just very defensive and often feel like I'm being assaulted for things. When people bug me over the mere stating of an opinion, it reminds me of my stubborn father. :|

I certainly don't present as a guy in a dress, either, so don't behave as if I'm not a CDer myself. :|

[ReineD]

I don't mean to assault you. You may not be aware of this, but the idea that it's OK for women to dress as men and not OK for men to dress as women has been debated ad nauseam in this forum. There was a huge debate about it just in the last few weeks. Perhaps you haven't seen the thread.

Anyway, it's an argument that just doesn't hold water and it insults FtMs as well as the GGs. It also doesn't do the CDers who do their best to present as women any justice either.

Sorry, but I just couldn't let it pass without stating my opinion too. I did my best to do so politely.

[SarahMarie42]

I'm not attempting to insult FtMs, it was more of a statement against patriarchy and hypermasculinity in our culture. I don't know, but maybe having my ass nearly kicked several times from middle school to high school for being unintentionally slightly effeminate makes me a bit biased. Many men are certainly aggressive towards those other males that they see as not being masculine enough, and I certainly harbor a great deal of resentment for those men. I just like to take potshots at the mentality whenever I can, if you can understand that.

[ReineD]

Many men are certainly aggressive towards those other males that they see as not being masculine enough, and I certainly harbor a great deal of resentment for those men. I just like to take potshots at the mentality whenever I can, if you can understand that.

I do. But many women aren't friendly towards *butch* women either.

No one who is gender variant has it easy.

[SarahMarie42]

I know, I'm just saying that I can only really offer my opinion as a MtF, as that's the only experience I have. I just want to clarify that I don't think natal women have it easy, btw. The patriarchal society sees women as being "lesser" or "incapable", that was actually my main statement.

[ReineD]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I do think it is an important point to make:

You are of course entitled to express any of your experiences as a MtF. It is when you and others try to tell natal women how easy they have it that it gets a bit much. :p

This is my last comment to you on this issue. I'd like to return the thread to the OP. :)

[Noortje]

Hmm... Maybe the girl was just expressing her surprise, rather than a negative judgment? There are certainly less polite things she could have said (or shouted!). You probably just caught her off guard. She saw something unexpected and did not have a readied response. I wouldn't worry too much (as you didn't!).

[Emme]

I took the comment as honest evaluation. It was a true view of my deportment. I was attempting to walk and hold my body in the proper manner. Hey, I had just go out from behind the wheel of a 27,000 lb bus. Later that day I was walking along with a GG and I explained that walking is the hard part. She told me, "it obvious you have been practicng.' I'll take that!
In defense of the grocery store parking lot woman....she lives in the COUNTRY..... AS IN VERY RUAL. She was having a conversation about her country club.
I find that ppeople who have not experience a varied life, often do not have much tolerence for diversity,

[ThiHi]

I find that ppeople who have not experience a varied life, often do not have much tolerence for diversity,

That says mouthful, indeed. Your attitude about the willfully ignorant is a positive and wonderful one.

[Cynthia Anne]

I love your attitude! Although I think I would of went back and said! "I think what is funny is how a lady like you can show her a$$ in public!

[JohnH]

I do get some flack if I present myself as a man wearing a denim skirt with a man's T-shirt. Fortunately there aren't many people that have problems, but there are a few that are really narrow minded.

The point is a woman who presents herself as such can get away with wearing masculine clothing as long as she is not being "butch".

Johanna (John)

[Tina B.]

I think you handled it just right, you can't change opinion by being confrontational, and why let it ruin your day. And I don't care what they said, I love the sun dress, it's cute.
Tina B.

[ReineD]

The point is a woman who presents herself as such can get away with wearing masculine clothing as long as she is not being "butch".

:wall: Then it's not masculine clothing, is it? lol

I do wonder why so many CDers insist that a dress standard that is over 50-70 years old is still in effect. Is it a way to justify themselves and make it seem as if their own dressing choices are "standard"? It's really not necessary you know. There's nothing wrong with being a CDer and more and more people are realizing this.

[J'lyn GG]

How do you know she was even talking about you? Have you ever said something in a conversation with someone and have a different person assume it was directed at them?
I also find that when I am in a situation when I am uncomfortable with what I'm wearing or what my hair looks like (or just uncomfortable as a whole), that I assume people will notice as such and talk about me. But, often it never happens.
When I'm out with friends, I don't even really notice the people around me, unless it is impossible to ignore ther person. (such as being loud or obnoxious) Just food for thought.

[Momarie]

Emme,

First, I just love your name.
Second, do you know what is so lovely and natural about you?

You dress appropriately for your age, only with a great deal of style and flair.
There is a pretty softness about you.

Now to SARAHMARIE42,
Please stop trying to high jack this thread.
It's not about you.

ReineD was offering her support to Emme and she is a valued member of this forum.

Why do some insist on verbally "assaulting" the very ones who really understand and care?
Are GG's only allowed to ohhh and ahh over petty insignificant threads like panties etc.?
We're not about to.

[Chickhe]

That's an odd comment. I bet she saw something while loading up her groceries. I've probably said the exact same thing...I look in the bag to see what I bought and notice something unusual and say 'that's funny... I thought I picked up the crunchy peanut butter not the creamy..oh well'.