Negative consequences of discovery

[Anne2345]

Lately I have noticed several threads and posts about members that have been discovered to be CDers by co-workers, friends, or strangers. Seemingly, these experiences have been positive, and that is great! However, the conclusion appears to be, in many of these cases, that because a few have been accepting and approving, that it must therefore be ok to be discovered, and that a majority will thereafter be accepting of this discovery, or not care.

Obviously, although we all want this to be the case, and ideally it should be the case, I just do not view it as being the current reality. Moreover, given that many members and guests view these threads and posts, I think it may be a dangerous road to take to become too comfortable with the thought or prospect of placing discovery in such a positive light. As such, I think members and guests would be well advised to be discovered at their own risk.

Moreover, I think there is a huge distinction between being discovered by strangers versus peers within one's community. I agree with the general premise that most strangers will not care. Peers, however, have the ability to change the course of one's career or standing in a community, for good or bad, fair or unfair, based upon mere perception of a person alone.

For instance, if a co-worker were to discover that I am a CDer, that co-worker may not have a problem with it. If that co-worker tells another co-worker, we all know how quickly office gossip can turn the tide, and all control of the situation is thereafter lost. I would be extremely careful about placing so much trust in an individual when potentially so much can be on the line, such as one's job, or the ability to advance in one's career.

For those of you that have been discovered, and enjoyed a postive result from the experience, I applaud you, and am quite envious. Before everyone gets caught up in these fantastic and wonderful stories, though, I think it would be helpful to also hear from those that have suffered negative consequences. I would certainly be interested in hearing their stories, as well.

My overall point is please be careful out there! We are all in this together, we want to be accepted, and we want this to be the best experience it can be! I would really hate to see one of us hurt because of an avoidable mistake.

[AllieSF]

Anne I agree with you in all but one thing. I do not think that the OP's to the threads where the OP was outed, or outed themselves were trying to make it sound like it is easier than it should be without any negative consequences. I also do not think that most of us will also think that it will not be so bad if we were discovered by friends, family or co-workers. We are all adults here and I think smart enough to realize that these rare occurrences are just that rare. We are responsible for our own actions and the consequences of those actions. That (fear of discovery and the probable/potential negative consequences) is probably why so many are so deep in the closet here. Otherwise, great warning.

[Misti]

Anne, great warning to all of the community; it is also very timely and well-written, too. Although I am "prancing around openly in Vegas" in what most of the world would say is ridiculous, inappropriate clothing to my gender, I am still "deeply closeted" to my family, kin and old-time friends and acquaintances.

Allie has a good point in us all supposedly being adults here and taking responsibility for our own actions, accordingly. It would be devastating and heartbreaking to me personally, to be "discovered" by that so-called cherished "Few," therefore, I am totally amazed at my "stupidity" of being so open and open-minded herein, or anywhere else, for that matter! Taken together, fun, adventure and excitement have a way of doing "that,” I suppose?

[VioletJourney]

This should be sticky'd, I can just imagine people coming in here for the first time reading all the good coming-out experiences and making rash decisions they regret.

Very well put.

[Nigella]

Violet, anyone who makes such a large life changing decision because of a few, and I do mean a few, good experiences are fools to themselves. There is no need to sticky this thread as it is common sense that you make a decision based upon your own individual circumstances.

[Stephanie47]

Anne is quite right! I prefer to be closeted because my actions as a cross dresser will not only have consequences to myself, but, to others. I think my wife would be mortified if her family, friends and neighbors knew. I accept my self imposed boundaries. Yes, I would love to be in Las Vegas for an extended period of time and live 24/7 outside in the streets. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas! I know from watching people that many are two faced. They will say one thing to you as a cross dresser indicating they do not care or it's cool, but, will turn around and agree with another person's negative reaction. The real reaction comes from people who have "skin in the game," something at risk or immediately affected. Don't expect blanket acceptance from the people who you really care about or deal with on a constant basis.

[Lorileah]

Oy! So here is the gist of this thread "Stay hidden, you should not let anyone know, it is dangerous, danger danger danger!"

I have to disagree with the OP here. If TG people ever want to have equality they should not be afraid to let people know. Yes we live in a world where a few (and it is the minority in the civilized world) still have opinions that anyone in the trans world is a freak or pervert. We let these people control how we live because, so many are afraid of what these narrow minded bigots will say (or do).

In general all the fears that people have are based on baseless ideas. You have been told over and over that wearing a dress makes you a bad person. Your clothes don't make you anything but not naked. I applaud the people who relay their stories about funny things that happen when they get "discovered". Usually it is funny or heartwarming. I feel sad when someone comes on here and says that being who you are is wrong. And especially when someone comes on here and shoots someone down (albeit unintentionally) by deflating their confidence in being proud of who they are. Maybe there was one person who read the same posts and they were saying
Hey it may not be as bad as I thought." then there is a post like this that says "Say hidden! only bad things can happen! what you read elsewhere is a aberration!"

It is my hope, and evidently the OP's, to someday be accepted in everyday life. This will never come to pass if you stay hidden and cower over what "might" happen because you think it should happen. You don't have to yell it from the mountain top. You can just be you. Yes we know that there are ignorant people out there, but I think you would be surprised how many you assume are ignorant really aren't.

You use common sense everyday as to where you go and what you do no matter what you are wearing. That is all you have to do when you are "dressed". Don't be afraid of boogiemen. And why would you want to hear about someone getting hurt? (BTW if you search you will find plenty of those too)

[Mikaela]

Add another person to the thread in agreement. I know I have hangups that even extend to strangers, but I would in no way disclose this activity to a co-worker or family member (who are thankfully on the other side of the country).

Misti, don't worry about being too open here. Unless you're disclosing a bunch of personal data, the signal to noise on the net is very high for the connections to be made to someone who could make them. Where things get into problems is when the concept of singular identity and signons ties everything you do online to one online persona.

CDing aside, we don't act the same way in all of our social groups (work, neighbors, friends, family, etc), so we shouldn't online either.

[sissystephanie]

Anne, Nigella, and Stephanie47 are all very correct. Make your own decisions about yourself, and just be careful doing so. And Nigella is certainly right. We don't need any more "Sticky's" at the head of this part of the Forum. There is way too many there now!!

[Anne2345]

Oy! So here is the gist of this thread "Stay hidden, you should not let anyone know, it is dangerous, danger danger danger!"


Hi Lorileah! Thanks for the response! Debate and discussion is what makes this forum, among many other things, fantastic! However, I just want to address your interpretation of my post. I am by no means advocating danger, danger, danger, stay hidden at all costs. If I left you, or anyone else, with that impression, the mistake is mine for not adequately articulating my position.

Instead, I was merely attempting to convey what I hoped would be a simple message - do not get caught up in the pink fog, so to speak, without properly thinking it through, and considering the potential consequences.

I agree with you that in any cause, whether it be our cause, or another cause, there must be those that take the forefront and force the issue to achieve equality and acceptance. Some, however, are better positioned to do so than others. Some have a greater desire to do so than others. Some simply cannot afford to risk their livelihoods, or the risk of their family's well-being, to do so. For those of you that can and do do this on behalf of people such as ourselves - bless you!!!! I cannot express my appreciation enough!!!

However, this issue is separate and distinct from the intent and purpose of my post.

Also, although I have nothing but respect and appreciation for you, I must disagree with your position on reviewing posts of members relating negative experiences on this forum. This forum, at its heart, is a support group forum, and an incredible resource of information and education. There are lessons to be learned from both positive and negative experiences. If only those stories that were positive were posted on here, who would that help? I love a great feel good story as much as the next girl. Truly, I do! There is much one learn from positive stories. But I also see a lot of value in learning from the negative experiences of others. For whatever it is worth, I have posted some of my own negative experiences herein. If it even helps one person to learn from it, and gain something of value from the story, then is that not worth it in and of itself?

In any event, I hope I have cleared up any misconception about the intent of my post. :)

Anne

[AllieSF]

Lorileih, I understand your post when it comes to just going out into the real world to be yourself away from your known everyday world. However, I do not understand how you can promote being yourself at all costs in front of family, friends and co-workers. I hear what you preach, but it is not your life, it is theirs and they have to live it and deal with the consequences of their own actions. So, if you would accept taking on all financial costs associated with lost income, added expenses of maybe needing to move to find work, or whatever, maybe, just maybe, you would have some takers to your offer to fully be themselves everywhere. I know that you could never take on the pain and suffering that one or more may suffer when they lose long time friends and acquaintances, family and others, just to live up to your standard of "just being yourself". Real life is definitely not like that when taken in context of this post. The fears you mentioned are not "based on baseless ideas". They are based on real negative consequences that the individual decides are important enough to avoid. That is their choice. I do not believe that the OP was, intentionally or not, trying to deflate someone's confidence to go out, nor to say stay hidden in their dark closet. It is just a good advisory to look before you leap. The OP also did not say being who you are is wrong, just be careful. I think that you read way too much negative into a well written advisory.

Like I said, when applying your philosophy to getting out of the house and into that real world to interact with others (for me and many others that means into their self defined safe zones where risk of discovery by friends, family and co-workers is less likely), I agree with you that the more of us out there, no matter how dressed and how presenting themselves, will have a definite positive long term effect on our community.

[NicoleScott]

If TG people ever want to have equality they should not be afraid to let people know.

Many of us agree with that, in theory. Trouble is, we don't live in a theoretical world, we live in the real world. I KNOW that I would lose my job if I came out as a cd. Sorry, but I can't be a martyr for the cause of universal acceptance of cd-ing.

I agree with Anne, and Allie's supporting post. It's nice to hear success stories, but we also need to hear the flip side for balance. Coming out isn't always (and in all ways) good.

[Christine1954]

Hi Anne, Really great thread, which i have to agree with 100%.
I live and work in a very biased, male dominated society and could not survive if discovered. I would lose my job, many friends and most of my family as they could not be seen to support my alternative personna.
I also admire Lorileah and the fact that she stands up for our rights and equality, but disagree that we are frowned upon only by a minority.
Christine. :)

[Danni Renee]

Being relatively new to the forum, I noticed a trend of a lot of postive "outings" versus negative "outings". As I thought about it, it has influenced me to an extent to take more chances then I probably should. With that said though, I do not want to be closeted my whole life either - I have to be closeted now for work issues but that will change in time. Reading the positive outings gives me hope that I may one day be able to live the way I want to live. In the end, I guess reading the positive "outings" balances the fears I have in my head to keep me on an equilibrium. I think I much prefer to read the successes than the disasters - my nightmares are more than enough to keep me in check.

[Stephenie S]

I have said this many times.

99.9% of the people in this world don't give a sweet flying patootie what you wear. Disclosing or being "found out" will be surprisingly acceptable to these people.

HOWEVER, this does not extend to your wife, your immediate family, your boss, and your pastor. Those people, under the guise of loving you, or protecting you, or protecting their pocketbook might be a tad more upset at your hobby.

Stephie

[James Kaon]

I think this is a great thread and very well balanced! Lorileah came up with a great counter which part of me agrees with. For true acceptance and tolerance within our lifetime, you have to show it no? But true also that ultimately, for CDing to become accepted, there is gonna be some personal risk involved and in some cases with negative circumstances to someones life and career. I think that this is probably unavoidable and infuriating that this is the case! But it is up to the individual and certainly they should understand these consequences.

Interestingly though, since I decided (or realised i wanted) to wear some of the opposite sex's things, I have come across this forum, and in doing so, have learned more about what i did not know. I dont think i had an opinion either way before, but I do feel nervous of telling people even tho its not a life choice for me. It does come down to personal choice tho and Im sure most people who CD are aware of what possible connotations are...

Great thread!

Jx

[rachaelsloane]

Anne,
I fully agree with your post. There have been a number of times over the years I thought about telling a co-worker or friend only to decide not to because of the the gossip chain. It is better to be safe than sorry. This forum has allowed me opportunity to express myself in a way that I have not done so in the past but also think about how I want Rachael to grow without having the negative discovery issues you have raised.
The Best,
Rachael

[docrobbysherry]

The thing about MEN is, when they get whacked, they tend to suck it up! It's what MEN DO!:brolleyes:

What that means is; there r probably LOTS of members who either came out, or were outed! Instead of coming online here and crying their little eyes out, they PROBABLY tried to go on the best way they knew how! Same as they/we have been doing our entire lives!:straightface:

Here's MY test for "Coming Out", to someone:

On one side of your paper, list all the GOOD things that mite happen from revealing your "hobby"!:)
On the other side, all the BAD things!:sad:

Then, if your GOOD side is much longer than your BAD side, COME OUT, for Pete's sake!:thumbsup:

In MY case, it was 2 lines. While, my BAD side ran over onto the next page!:doh:

[Marissa]

Anne did a great job in expounding on her OP and with the support of Allie and others, this thread of concern makes sense. I do remember not that long ago where one member was so influenced by all the positive posts of coming out..and even reach out to others who said "go for it, be who you are" and..guess what.. wife walked out the door..member was distrought..and left the site. Now I know that it was the member's own fault..but if a thread like this saves one or two..then its worth it.

Now I know we are all adults..but..even adults are foolishly influenced..so maybe this type of thread will serve as a reminder as to 'think before you act' and don't fall for the 'go out and be you..there is nothing to be afraid of'.. We can't all just walk out the door and scream at the top of our lungs on what we are doing..

Occasional crossdressing is not the same as living 24/7, being a ts, or 'having' to transition where the price has to be paid (or dealt with) to fulfill that need.

So, as Sherry says, put on paper..and if the "don't" side is full or cost more, then you don't..

My :2c:..can I have change????? :D

[t-girlxsophie]

Common sense dictates ones actions surely.You look at your own situation in Isolation,For example your workplace may be full of right thinking folk (my colleagues have accepted well) but in someone elses case it could go horribly wrong.Its hardly rocket science,each of us has to make informed choices instead of plunging headlong into making rash decisions,or thinking just because you read of positive experiences here all in your garden will be as rosy

Sophie

[Marissa]

Common sense dictates ones actions surely.You look at your own situation in Isolation,For example your workplace may be full of right thinking folk (my colleagues have accepted well) but in someone elses case it could go horribly wrong.Its hardly rocket science,each of us has to make informed choices instead of plunging headlong into making rash decisions,or thinking just because you read of positive experiences here all in your garden will be as rosy

Sophie

Revert back to my post...there are those who take it with a grain of salt and act on it.. believe me its true. "so if xx jumps off a bridge, will you?.." YES.

[abbykins]

I agree with Lorileah that we should not have baseless fears. Some fears are baseless, some aren't.

Nobody should become a martyr for a cause or sacrifice any of their values. Whether discovery is a good idea should be judged objectively, because there's a lot more happiness in being open when it's possible.

[Cynthia Anne]

Anne my fiend! I agree with you! I feel that this forum can hurt you if you listen too closely to what other girls are doing! There situation may differ from yours enough to be able to come out to co-workers! Where if you did it could be a bad thing! I say, read and enjoy, but move with caution! Weigh it out be fore you let the pink fog suck you in way over your head! Hugs!

[Tina B.]

The one thing we all need to remember, If you decide to tell one other person, (any other person), then we are no longer in total control over who knows, the more people that learn, the less control we have over the information. Once it is out there, people will deal with it in there own way, and there is nothing you can do about it. That can include divorce, loss of job, ostracized at church or what ever. But if it's important enough to you, then you need to step out and take a chance in life, and if you do it's nice to know there are others that have done it with success. And after years reading these post, the only thing most have lost have been wives and family, a few friends, but no one has mentioned losing a job, that I remember. So if you think you know the family well enough, that you be accepted, willing to change friends if need be, what you got to lose.
Tina B.

[Amanda22]

First off, this is a great thread and extremely relevant. I really, really want to believe that if we all just get out there dressed as females to our heart's content, then enough exposure will have been made to turn the tide of acceptance our way. However, I'm not sure that's the best approach. I just don't know how we get widespread acceptance. I give monthly to the National Center for Transgender Equality, I've thought very lightly about starting a TG social group in my area, but other than that, I just don't know how I can make progress for "us". Do we even have a common "cause"? Some here say we're just people expressing themselves, which I guess is true. I wish I had some wisdom to impart to the discussion but I'm afraid all I've done is spout off.

[suchacutie]

Great thread! I'd like to back the discussion off from the microscopic view to a view from at least a few hundred feet (if not more):

Every person leads a complicated life. We all assess the people and circumstances around us and make decisions about disclosure of every part of our existence. Just as we don't choose to share the details of our stock portfolio with the person in the next cubicle, nor our salary level, we probably also don't share the details of our latest blood test, or the details of our intimate lives with our spouses. We assess...we make choices.

Some of the members of this forum have felt the need to make their feminine side public, or semi public. I personally find this incredibly impressive over a wide spectrum of emotions from envy to astonishment. Others have assessed their situation and decided that a bit less disclosure was best in their circumstances. It is especially true in the case of commitment to family and spouses that disclosure is not only going to affect us personally, but will affect all around us as well. Yet another group of us stays completely closeted, sometimes from literally every other person on the planet.

We all need to respect these decisions. I believe the best thing we can do for each other is to be supportive and to lead by example. It is by example that, I believe, many have expanded their horizans by continually reassessing their situations. We all understand what it is like to have inalienable and undeniable dualities of gender. We would all like this gender duality to be accepted completely by society, and each of us does what we can within our perceived constraints. We "push the envelope", so to speak. So let's encourage that envelope expansion, but not its rupture.

tina

[Amanda22]

Very well said, Tina.

[Megan70]

We are our own worst enemy and are not careful or open our damn big mouth because we are so wrapped up in the moment of pink fogging that we are just filled with so much excitment we are about to burst and have to tell someone or take chances. In my earlier years of CD'ing going downtown dressed on my vacation day i would walk around as a nicely dressed office girl and on more than one occassion walk right past or stand next to at a clothing rack another worker from he office. I passed and was not read and the thrill was beyound describtion, but.... I think back on it now and thought was an ass i was by taking such a chance. By the time they returned from lunch it would be all over the dept. and the next day when I returned Id be embarrased and humiliated, far out trumping the euphoria of the day before.
We are our own worst enemies. Be careful out there. Once things are discovered it can't be taken back and forgtten.
I'd like to hear some bad experiences us CD's have had that are scary and we can learn from and not just read the hyped up nicey-cutest stories of going out and everything is peachy keen. Any volunteers to be honest here?

[Sally810]

I live in the rural South. My solution is to 'get out of the County' and then be Sally. I dress to be like other NW Florida older women. Nobody seems to notice if you are careful.

Last Winter, I was out as Sally and it was cold so I slipped on a jacket that was in the car, it was my ham radio jacket with my callsign on it. In Wal-Mart, another Ham came up and started a conversation... He followed me around the store talking about radio topics and I could not escape him for a while!

He could easily look up my callsign and determine name and gender. I was worried for a while but nothing seemed to come from it. Sally810

[PretzelGirl]

As this is a support forum, there should be a mix of good and bad stories. Everyone needs a spread of information in order to help them think through things. I admit, I like Lori's perspective in that I think more of us can be out there. Is there a reason why there are more good outings talked about here than the bad? Maybe because the good ones are more frequent. But it does seem that less of us get out, so it is unbalanced as it seems we should have more of us out. Just part of the territory as there is a (perceived or real) chance of great loss upon being found out.

But outside of how many of us do anything, there should be talk and stories of both sides of everything. Not as a sticky as if everything that got asked to be a sticky became one, we wouldn't have room on the pages to displayed other threads. But both sides of everything should be talked about so each person can view other's experiences and make a decision that is fitting for them. Support isn't just for those new, but also the experienced. It isn't just for the closeted, but also those out. It isn't just for the TG, but for the family and friends. So all topics need both sides (and it would be pretty damn boring here if everything was one sided).

[Speck]

Hi Lorileah!
I agree with you that in any cause, whether it be our cause, or another cause, there must be those that take the forefront and force the issue to achieve equality and acceptance. Some, however, are better positioned to do so than others. Some have a greater desire to do so than others. Some simply cannot afford to risk their livelihoods, or the risk of their family's well-being, to do so. For those of you that can and do do this on behalf of people such as ourselves - bless you!!!! I cannot express my appreciation enough!!!

However, this issue is separate and distinct from the intent and purpose of my post.

Also, although I have nothing but respect and appreciation for you, I must disagree with your position on reviewing posts of members relating negative experiences on this forum. This forum, at its heart, is a support group forum, and an incredible resource of information and education. There are lessons to be learned from both positive and negative experiences. If only those stories that were positive were posted on here, who would that help? I love a great feel good story as much as the next girl. Truly, I do! There is much one learn from positive stories. But I also see a lot of value in learning from the negative experiences of others. For whatever it is worth, I have posted some of my own negative experiences herein. If it even helps one person to learn from it, and gain something of value from the story, then is that not worth it in and of itself?

Anne

Anne, I think you're a wise person. Not everyone is in a position to be an advocate but everyone can help in their own way, just like you're doing. The one thing that doesn't seem to be mentioned here is that many times, those "fantastic" coming out stories are just that - - fantasy. This is the Internet, I know. Everyone is free to use it as they wish but I wish they wouldn't do that. First of all, it's ironic coming from those who are here because they can't be who they truly are in real life. One would hope they'd post here with integrity but sadly this is not the case.

And while all are adults able to make their own decisions based on the reality of their lives, I think that spending an inordinate amount of time here, hearing all the "fantastic" stories can make you second guess things and think that maybe all your fears have no basis. The risks start to look less risky. To some, although not all. That is very dangerous indeed.

I believe that the key to making change in our society is through the next generation. Every person here who happens to be a parent can teach kids to value and appreciate diversity rather than tolerate it. You don't have to out yourself to do that. In fact, you don't have to limit the conversation to TGs. You could also help women advance their status.

Speck

[busker]

To thine own self be true. Nice sentiment, but in the wrong circumstances it could be a painful wakeup. Actions always have consequences. Just think about the gay culture for a few minutes. They have had the media attention for at least 40 years and I think that while there is some acceptance, it is not as great as some would have us believe. They are still struggling with the marriage thing. If things are so good, why do we continue to need the LAW to settle what are social issues and why do we need the laws to continually tell us they we are in fact all equal? Because, we are NOT equal. Diversity is just a word for someone else who complies with some law or other.
We live in a nation that can barely graduate 2/3 of it's high school students, only fifty percent of those who go to college actually finish. Are these the bright people who are going to accept this way of life that we wish to express? We have half of the congress of this country holding 300 million people ransom for absolutely nutty ideas derived from religion, they lack science intelligence, they display greed with no end in sight, and these are the people who are going to accept crossdressing as a mainstream notion.? Remember too that they also have a huge following as well. They are very likely your NEIGHBORS.
My glass is always half empty and while that does not always provide the greatest happiness, it helps to ensure that I won't be skipping along the path like a naive porky pig about to get his tail twisted by the big bad wolf.
I sometimes read the TS threads and have only read hints of social problems and suicide. These are post-op people (some anyway) who have given their all to be what they wanted to be--it would be a good lesson to hear their success stories, if indeed there are many. As crossdressers, we are a long way from this kind of personal commitment.

[Maria 60]

I would believe it would depend on what form of crossdresser you are. For myself being deep in the closet and not wanting anyone but my wife to know is fine, but if i wanted to walk out the door and go out as Maria, it would be a matter of time before someone fines out. Iam sure that just being on this site my computer repair person (witch is a family member) could see were i've been. I used to go for drives in the country get out of the car and take pictures, and drive downtown dressed but since everyone has a camera phone these days there's more risk. You may be surprised at the reaction of family members it may not be so bad, but i was at a family function and all the talk every where was "did you heir that so and so is gay". So you could just imagine if someone found out that i enjoy wearing woman's clothing would spread in the family. Even being in the closet has it's risks, just the other day my wife went shopping and i opened the door hiding behind the door to realize that my mirror reflected to my neighbor who was sitting on his bench, thank God he was texting and had his head down. (i hope). It's just that easy for someone to find out.

[claire_hollinger]

Lol. Lets remember that in this PC society, many people's reactions in the workplace are restrained by fear of getting fired....So when they do not react negatively, that does not mean that they are supportive, just afraid of losing their jobs. That will not stop those people who are just too ignorant to care.

[ReineD]

99.9% of the people in this world don't give a sweet flying patootie what you wear. Disclosing or being "found out" will be surprisingly acceptable to these people.

HOWEVER, this does not extend to your wife, your immediate family, your boss, and your pastor.

Or your friends, acquaintances, and potential clients.

People don't have an issue with it in principle, as long as it's "arm's length". But, when deciding on a contractor, or a lawyer, or a doctor, the potential client might choose instead someone who doesn't have "gender issues". The mom at school might not be so ready to have her little boy have a sleepover at the CDer's child's house, even though she'll smile and say hi to the CDer in the hallway on parent's night. And even friends might decide not to invite the CDer and wife to the next party, although we all know if they behave like this, they are not truly friends.

The reality is that in our current world, unless we move in highly liberal circles, there will be doors shut to us that might not be otherwise, and a CDer and wife need to be prepared for this when they make the decision to out themselves.

I also think it is easy to lose sight of this when lost in a pink fog.

[Phylis Nicole Schuyler]

Stepanie;
Amen to that! Even when you loved one knows there is still not total acceptance. My SO knows and accepts that it is a part a part of me but does not want to see it, so Ive set boundaries. I would totally come out if I had built enough confidence in myself and my look.