Passing smoothly, and being flirted with at straight bars

[Angel.Marie76]

Hi folks,

Prep-thoughts:
You may or not be aware that I've been living F/T (RLE) since NY2011, at work and so on. In this rather large town / small city that I live in there aren't many things to do, as we're really out in the rural part of the state.

I was having a bad day at work - to the best of my knowledge non-transition related - and needed to get out and relax a little. I'm a billiard-kinda girl - give me a scotch and cue and I'm good to go. I go to a local dive that I knew had some tables, only to find out it's a league night. Poo. Soo... I grab a drink, and move to a table to sit and watch the players warm up. There weren't really any other options in town. By the time I finish my drink, and start to get ready to go, apparently an older, blue-collar (Italian) gentleman had been eyeing me. He offers to buy me another drink to stay and chat.... and I nervously accepted.

It was extremely clear right off he was hitting on me, and had absolutely no idea of my pre-op status. The usual questions back and forth.. am I married (yes, points to ring and diamond), said my husband was a lucky man, asked what he did for work.. etc. Now, after a few questions, I just HAD to level with him, and at least tell him I was married to a WOMAN.. he paused, and then informed me that he had a lesbian friend or two. Hmm, K. Asked me why I wasn't into men ~ oh brother here we go ~ I told him that the case was that I go both ways, but that my happiness has been with a woman lately.

He was being a real sweetheart, a divorcee with two kids with very ethnic Italian names.. he really didn't want me to leave, but wasn't being forceful.. if anything I probably made him rather sad/bummed that I burned through that second drink out of nervousness... I excused myself, and left. NOW WHAT???!!

I was beaming with the clear realization that I passed for a GG, but now I'm terrified as to what to do/say next. Yes, I'm in a domestic partnership, and I don't want to cheat. I would like to still be able to go back to this bar and play pool again, but don't want to aggravate this currently harmless situation. My fears are the usual ones we might expect - nothing like being outed in a rough environment, and then dealing with any fallout - plus, I actually respect the fellow for treating me like an average fish in the sea. I sure as hell don't want to crush him OR embarrass him in front of the folks he knows there (and he's apparently a regular).

Sigh. Help? :o :straightface:

[Kathi Lake]

Angel,

Running away was the right thing to do. As a woman, you are going to have to get used to escaping situations such as this. However, the biggest issue isn't your pre-op status, it's the woman you already have at home. Deal with that one first, sweetie.

:)

Kathi

[CharleneT]

First of all, don't tell him. While "crush" may be a little strong, it could make him feel bad. As well, this sort of situation is great practice. Akin to when a person first starts going full time, only at a different level. You have made it clear that you are not interested in anything more than talk while at the bar, so just do that and enjoy it. Keep it light and friendly. Chances are really good that he will too.

Men of a certain age, get relaxed about getting turned down, they come to understand it happens and then they can actually be pretty decent friends. Younger men seem to take insult or get angry etc... Often the older men just like to flirt, not expecting it to work. I've run into this a lot and enjoy it when I realize that is where a man is coming from. Someday he may "figure it out", or be told (are there folks there who know you well enough to "know"?). Should that happen, if you two have struck up a friendship, it is most likely that he will be fine about it.

On a less clinical note ... ain't it a blast ? !!! :angel:

[Angel.Marie76]

Angel,

Running away was the right thing to do. As a woman, you are going to have to get used to escaping situations such as this. However, the biggest issue isn't your pre-op status, it's the woman you already have at home. Deal with that one first, sweetie.
Kathi

Kathi, I wasn't trying to insinuate that I was GOING to do anything 'bad', I was more trying to just come to grips with how to deal with this and future similar situations. I acknowledged very clearly that I was spoken for.. however, I was more just trying to be friendly. I would like to be able to feel free enough to go back there again to actually PLAY some pool and not cause a further stir. As I said, this was the very first time (not counting the alternative club i go to) I've been hit on like this, and I'd like to both a) make and leave a good impression and b) be able to to communicate without fear.


First of all, don't tell him. While "crush" may be a little strong, it could make him feel bad. As well, this sort of situation is great practice. Akin to when a person first starts going full time, only at a different level. You have made it clear that you are not interested in anything more than talk while at the bar, so just do that and enjoy it. Keep it light and friendly. Chances are really good that he will too.

Men of a certain age, get relaxed about getting turned down, they come to understand it happens and then they can actually be pretty decent friends. Younger men seem to take insult or get angry etc... Often the older men just like to flirt, not expecting it to work. I've run into this a lot and enjoy it when I realize that is where a man is coming from. Someday he may "figure it out", or be told (are there folks there who know you well enough to "know"?). Should that happen, if you two have struck up a friendship, it is most likely that he will be fine about it.

On a less clinical note ... ain't it a blast ?!!!

Charlene, I wasn't necessarily planning on telling him, at least at first -- and, at least from what I saw in the room, I knew no one there. It's a small world though, of course. One drink I felt was fine, it was his dime, so I thought I would give him the time. Yes, I was floored that he was being so nice, however I am glad that I left when I did. If and/or when I decide to go back, if he engages me in banter again, I'll just be more firm about not necessarily accepting a drink - at least if he thinks he's going to try and make me forget about my ring(s)..

I just fear, generally. Fear that he may find out and be upset.. fear that I could be in danger of any kind because of it... This is just general stuff that any of us out in the public eye might have... Sometimes I just realize how crazy it is that, not only do we have have to handle the environment from the view of a transperson, but then must be able to, almost flawlessly, represent ourselves as a fully experienced member of our gender. A lot of the pieces of that second part of the puzzle just aren't necessarily known to me yet.... Like how to deal with this! He started talking about his kids and how proud of them he was.. and I wanted to show off my son.. but, um.. I just kinda choked on it cause I didn't want to lead myself into a corner that I wouldn't be able to talk myself out of.. little things like that.. just minutia that I can only bullshit my way through so far before.. whoops.. doh. You can just imagine..

[Zenith]

He found you attractive and wanted to talk. And yes, guys can be insistent. I've seen it even at a coffee house. It's just how they are. Reminds me of an episode of "King of the Hill". Boomhauer is the ladies man and everyone wants his secret. One time Bobbie goes with him for a day to a shoe store I think? And Boom hits on every attractive lady in sight, getting shot down dozens of times. Bobbie is like...what's wrong aren't you discouraged by this? But at the end of the day Boomhauer walks out with several attractive ladies' phone numbers.

So don't feel bad just talking with guys without intention of going further, it's very normal.

[Angel.Marie76]

Thanks Ms. Squirrel, I appreciate it. I'm sure you've had a bit of experience these days yourself chatting it up with some cuties..

I guess it's the normality and clandestine nature of being a TG woman running in pseudo-stealth mode.. I've been just living like I don't care if people know.. and all of a sudden I bump into someone who doesn't.. and it's like game at some level.. and you're trying not to loose but at the same time walk away with your courage intact.

Maybe one of us needs to start putting together a reference guide - "Real-world tactics for the recently out (and possibly stealth) Transgender/Transsexual", Chapter 1 - Looking the part, Chapter 2 - Acting the part, Chapter 3 - Talking the part.. with an appendix with common conversational threads and how to BS your way through them without outing yourself.... he he Perhaps it already exists?

[CharleneT]

Your description is really spot on, it is a game. There are some rules, and unfortunately no one seems to know them all by heart (this is true for all single folks, cis, TG and otherwise). I agree that it is hard to do juggle just "being" and the added dimension of people who are sexually interested in you. Best way - in my humble opinion - is to practice, practice, practice. GG's grow up with this and so the "how to handle" comes a little more easily to them. But there is a huge variation in that as well.

If you do run into him again, maybe let him buy only one drink. If he tries/insists, remind him of your "attached-ness" as you say no thanks. I would work that into conversation as well. As for the kids thing, I'd not mention them. Something to consider, I have a close GG friend, she and her boyfriend and I go out sometimes to his fav bar. Kind of a "Cheers" sorta place and vib. He, or one of his buddies, normally buy all my drinks. At first I was uncomfortable, but then Anne reminded me that is normal behavior. They don't mean a thing by it, other than that is what men do to show they are the bread winners. Not one has made an overt pass at me (drat), but still they open doors, take my coat, offer me their chair, etc - and buy me drinks. Of course, sometimes men do mean something by it and learning when is a skill.

[Hope]

There are some rules, and unfortunately no one seems to know them all by heart (this is true for all single folks, cis, TG and otherwise). I agree that it is hard to do juggle just "being" and the added dimension of people who are sexually interested in you. Best way - in my humble opinion - is to practice, practice, practice. GG's grow up with this and so the "how to handle" comes a little more easily to them. But there is a huge variation in that as well.

Lets also remember that cis girls (generally) grow up in a culture, and in a social unit that is extremely protective of them, and prevents them from getting into too much trouble or from making too many catastrophically stupid mistakes too early on while they are still learning to navigate a world that is populated with predatory a$$holes.

We do not have that structure, and need to be correspondingly careful. We have all been in the locker-room. We all know what men are like. We all know what testosterone does to a person's brain. There is a reason why women see men as dangerous and creatures to be wary of. I think being friendly, yet firm and cautious is the best idea. The key being friendly. And not letting caution, or lack of it, ruin the evening.

[Chickhe]

No expert at this, but just forget he exists. Go about your usual routine. If you see him again just be polite but distant... clear signal you are not interested. You should not accept drinks from anyone after the initial introduction because it could be considered a form of a social contract and they will expect you to return the favor. Sounds pretty neat to be accepted they way you want...congratulations.

[Angel.Marie76]

I'll keep this short, sweet, with a side order of SCARY. Haven't been back to that bar yet, but still will likely go at some point, though not looking for THIS guy, lemme tell you.

Was at different bar with GG girlfriends Sat. night. Talking about being hit on.. I brought up this older guy... I said his name.. and started to rattle off one of the kids names.. and one of my GF's stopped me.. 'What? Wait, did you say [......]'.. yeah.. 'Hang on..' *she pulls out her phone* clicketyclickety.. 'His name was [...] and his kids names are Xx and Yx?' [detail exchange] Yeah! That's him!

(wait for it.....)

'Holy sh1t, you need to stay away from him! He just barely got out of jail, like, a few months ago.. his ex-wife's done my hair dozens of times.. she put him away for abuse.. Italian temper.. you name it..' and on and on and on..

Not that I was going to do anything anyway.. but I thought that I would let you all know the kind of dangers that lurk out there.. Like someone's said before, we are perhaps lacking the years and years of cautionary tales and group protections.. Go figure, right? Liiiiiiive and learn, and thank the goddess for good girlfriends!

[dilane]

This has happened to me many times in straight bars. I typically accept the drink, chat nicely, and if and when I'm asked out, I usually say I'm in a relationship, or recently widowed (the latter is true in my case).

I'm attracted to women, and don't want to lead men on (at least not that much :), but I do enjoy the validation when it comes.

Once, a retired film distributor bought me a drink and asked me out and I decided to tell him I was a TS. He looked at me for a minute and said, "You know, I think I'd be ok with that..." :) He gave me his number and I didn't call him back.

-- Diane

[Avana]

I don't accept drinks unless its from friends, whether they're in front of the bar or behind. Just makes it simpler. I don't like to lead anyone on.

Especially because I have a SO. (and you're married?!) Either way, it just makes it simpler. The only reason I'd take a drink from someone is if I were interested in him/her and prepared to tell him/her I am TS. Pre-op, I would never lead anyone on without him or her knowing, just out of concern for safety, both physical and emotional.

And then beyond that there is just the simple safety consideration that anyone, especially women, should heed. Be careful who you talk to, where you walk at night, watch your drink, etc.

It's a scary world out there for us TS girls.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

go get em angel... your are experiencing good things, and in the end, its up to you and your instincts to guide you through

i hope you are having fun when you get out!

["Mary"]

I'm not sure what you should do, but I'm certain that your are right about figuring it out, because by the look of your avatar, you are getting prettier and prettier so this is going to be happening more and more. Good luck.