How close to passing?

[Samantha W]

I will be spending this weekend (My Birthday) in Minneapolis dressed and I want to look my best. Please don’t hold anything back and be honest and brutal. These are some of my best photos. I'm getting better at the makeup and hair. I am not worried about the cloths or body, I have that down. The mannerisms are coming along.

Does my face and hair pass? Am I getting close? Which look is closer? How can I improve?

Any and all comments are welcome. Thanks for your feedback.

Samantha

[msniki48]

Samantha, I would try to pull a few hairs down as bangs...it will give the wig a more realistic appearance. Im not saying knock it all down....as in solid bangs.... a few sprigs as in your brown one with the red top.

11 yrs later and i'm still not there so keep practicing you will be fine

hugs

msniki48

[Kathi Lake]

Here's my comments in no order of importance:

Facial shape is good overall. Wig needs help. Maybe take it to a wig shop and see what they can do with it. It is positioned too high on your forehead. MsNiki's suggestion on the bangs is a good one. If you're going to wear eyeliner on your lower lids, use less, go up closer to the eye and smudge it a bit. A darker lipstick might suit you better. Your breasts in the last picture look a little lumpy and really, really there, but I can't see you in full-frame so I can't tell if they 'fit' you.

Kathi

[Kathryn Philips]

I have never ventured out so passing is not currently a concern for me and I am no one to give advice from experience. I think the trick is to make a credible woman even if up-close you are clearly a male. Absolutely, work on your mannerisms, postures and voice so that they look subtle and natural. Even if your face looks very passable you will give yourself away by exagerating your mannerisms, etc. I think your second picture is best although the make-up in the last one is really nice. In my opinion your breasts seem just too large. Less is more...

[Carla]

Ditto. I like the makeup and wig in the picture with the red top best. The next best is the one with the very pretty jewel necklace except a little less eyeshadow above the lids and yes, bangs would add so much to soften your face.
Finally, don't forget to wear your confident smile! It is the best makeup money can buy!!!!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Samantha, The #3 picture looks like you've got it pretty well got things all figured out.

Orchid

[Samantha W]

Thanks all! This is wonderful. And so quickly. More Please.... lol

[Samantha W]

.In my opinion your breasts seem just too large. Less is more...

Thanks Kattie. I agree. When I bought the forms they did'nt look this large in the display case. But I feel it would be cheating to buy another set. GG's dont get to change. But then I have several wigs so....

I have also learned to wear then further down. A more natural sag position.

[Ericka2]

Passing as a woman sometimes looks so easy and others very frustrating, there's times when I walk into stores very confident and others I don't feel comfortable going out of the hotel room, is it just me? I so love your last picture, the other ones you need some more help as other have recommended.

Love, Ericka.

[Samantha W]

[QUOTE=Kathi Lake;2482174]Here's my comments in no order of importance:

Facial shape is good overall. Wig needs help. Maybe take it to a wig shop and see what they can do with it. It is positioned too high on your forehead. MsNiki's suggestion on the bangs is a good one. If you're going to wear eyeliner on your lower lids, use less, go up closer to the eye and smudge it a bit. A darker lipstick might suit you better. Your breasts in the last picture look a little lumpy and really, really there, but I can't see you in full-frame so I can't tell if they 'fit' you.

Thanks Kathi,

I don’t have many decent photos of myself. These are some of the best full length shots. Will they help?
I love the mini skirt, but don’t think I have the tummy to pull it off yet. The mirror shot is how I dress in public. The blond wig is a bit ratty and I don’t use it anymore.

[Jodi]

Keep in mind that none of us are passable. What you want to strive for is a presentable, confident look. When you achieve that, you can go most places with no problems

Jodi

[Taylor186]

Hard to tell if you pass with a few static, fuzzy full-length pictures. But I will say I have a CD friend who is 6'2" and 220 lbs and she is out all the time and "passes" in the sense that others accept her for the gender she presents as. Not that she is assumed a woman but that she is accepted as one.

I've studied her presentation and I boil her excellence down to three things: 1) She dresses very conservatively (slightly up-scale) and is always dressed appropriate for where she is going, always, and her wig styling and care, and accessories match this; 2) Her feminine comportment (the way she walks, stands, sits, her hand movements, her projected personality, etc) are perfectly feminine; and 3) Her feminine voice is totally believable. Without these things, as she would say, she is just a man in a dress.

[edit] and 4) She always is the first to engage the stranger at an event in conversation. After a few moments of conversation the person easily latches onto her personality, voice and mannerisms, and tends to overlook/ignore her linebacker physique.

[ReineD]

I'll give you my observations too, and if I'm repeating anything that is said above, my apologies to you and to prior posters:

The positives:

You have a very feminine, rounded face, a very pretty smile, beautiful eyes, and good eyebrows. So you're way ahead of the curve there. :)

Things to work on:

The wig looks synthetic in the pic but I don't know how it looks in real life. You might want to shop around a bit and look for a more natural looking wig with loose, wispy bangs that will help take the edge off your forehead. The darker color is much better than the blonde, but you might want to try a medium to dark brown (not black), since this would give an overall softer appearance (not as stark as the black). I love the length on you though, and the way the ends curl into your neck. This is very feminine looking.

The makeup:

You need to not put eyeliner at the bottom of your eye, this makes them look hard. Try a small angled brush and use a smokey color (medium gray or taupe) and apply it from the outer eye, to the middle of your lower lashline, and then taper it off to almost nothing by the time it reaches the corner of your eye. If you take the color all the way to the corner of your eye, it doesn't look natural and it makes your eyes look hard. Also, I wouldn't use the blue eye shadow all the way to your eyebrows. I would instead use a taupe color on your lid, and in your crease. You can use a BIT of beige or champagne (not white) colored highlight shadow just under your arch. Don't overdo this as this can also make your eyes overly made up. I like your lip color in the first pic (a nice, medium color), but you could put a little gloss on. Don't overdo the lips in too dark a color either, since you want people to think, "nice lips!", not "wow, look at all that lipstick!".

The clothes:
I would dress stylishly, but more on the conservative side for public, meaning no bare midriff or skirts that are too short with boots, or heels that are higher than 3", 4" max. If you try to present a more "eye candy" look, people will stare but this will also increase your chances of being read. Dress to blend. If you decide to go with slacks, make sure they are long enough and they go down to at least a little past the top of your heel once you've got your shoes on. Also, your breasts look about the right size, not too big.

Now .. if you're going to a GLBT or alternative nightclub, or maybe even a TG support group meeting, you can wear all the eye candy you want, and it will be fine. :)

[Fab Karen]

The look in the third pic in the red top probably works for going out. Here I'll add that the pic is cut off near the breasts so hard to gauge if they look right with your body. Your avatar pic they are set way too high. Look at women & note how they sit on the body. With darker hair, don't go with light lipstick color.
I skipped comment on the first two pics as from other pics looks like you've been working on it. But yes, skip that bleach-blonde hair.
The easiest way to learn make-up would be to have someone do a make-over on you, as you watch in a mirror what they're doing ( tell them you want to learn). At least with a person or place that does that for CD's if you'd feel too uncomfortable going to a regular make-up place.

[Eryn]

When I bought the forms they did'nt look this large in the display case. But I feel it would be cheating to buy another set. GG's dont get to change. But then I have several wigs so....I have also learned to wear then further down. A more natural sag position.

Actually, GGs change the look of their bustline all the time via different bras, inserts, and of course the Wizard of Park and Seventy-Third! What you have now are real head-turners and that might not be what you are looking for if you want to blend.

[Stephenie S]

Too much eye makeup.

The wig looks fake. I know, it IS fake, but there are less synthetic looking ones out there. Keep shopping.

The clothes? Remember you are not 17. Don't try to dress like a teenager. A longer, looser top will help disguise your masculine shape.

Your breasts are too high and too big.

Overall? You've got a good start. Keep working at it. You'll get there.

S

[ReineD]

To the people just above me, do you think the breasts look too big in her post #10?

[Eryn]

...do you think the breasts look too big in her post #10?

Now that you mention it, the bustline in left hand shot in post 10 looks pretty natural, though the head-on pose might be concealing something. The clothes, while fun, could be a bit more age-appropriate if the desire is to blend.

[GirlieAmanda]

I second Kathi's comments. She is right on. Wig should be no less than a Kanekelon fiber wig. They are super realistic. You can get them for 30 to 40 dollars on wig sites. The hair is everything. If your hair looks real, then you have a better shot at passing. AND you feel more confident. Big boobs are always a giveaway too. Try for a more modest size.

[Stephenie S]

To the people just above me, do you think the breasts look too big in her post #10?

Perhaps not too big in these photos. It's hard to tell. But definately too high in both pictures. The classic "rule" is half way between the shoulder and the elbow. A bit lower is always safe.

BTW Samantha. You have a lovely smile. Use it more often.

S

[Christina Horton]

Ok let's see.
One. Your eye shadow with you skin color should be in the browns not blues.
Two. Eye liner like said before you need to go lighter unless you wear glasses like I do.
Three. You need some blush. Just a bit. It really brings out cheek bones and looks more fem.
Four. The pic with the red shirt is your best hair color. Brown not black.
Five. I like bangs and had some cut into my first wig and made me look sooooooo much mire fem.
Six. Lips can be any color you want just make sure it goes with your outfit.
And last. Like others have said "smile"! Women smile much more then men.... Well around me the do LOL.

Be friendly chat up people with a love for life and that will go a long way to being fem. Do not be afraid to be seen and read by anyone. If they read you that's fine. And if you were a nice Crossdersser then they will feel good about you and about CDs all around.

When you do talk use you hands a little more. If you make others think you belong there then the will know that you do.
Have fun and oh ya by the way.... You look very nice now.... Just image how youll be looking in a year or two!!!!!

[Taylor186]

To the people just above me, do you think the breasts look too big in her post #10?

A little hard to tell straight on but I'd say the breasts look too big or the tops look too small. And yes, I agree with others that they are sitting too high.


[edit] Oh I forgot, you have my vote for the blond wig and glasses look. I really like that photo from the necklace up. Don't like the outfit though.

[kristinacd55]

Hey Samantha, you pass! It's really all about confidence and blending after all......just my 2 cents! :2c:

[Sally24]

The.brown curly wig is the best of the lot. Some bangs almost always work better with our male foreheads. The eye shadow is too much. Use it as an accent or tint, not heavy. It should be hard to tell where it starts and stops. Blending it well is very important. I personally usually stick with the earthtones as they are much easier to blend. I would extend the outer corners of your eyes with eyeliner. It make the eyes look bigger. I am a great fan of fake eyelashes but they take time and practice.to learn how to apply. Good luck and enjoy yourself!

[Leslie Langford]

I really have nothing further to add here to what hasn't already been said above, except to say how wonderful it is that all the ladies here have jumped in so quickly with their support and constructive criticisms. This truly is a wonderful site, and is developing into a genuine "sisterhood".

And no worries, Samantha - you already look eminently passable (or at the very least, "blendable"), and many GG's should look as good. The suggestions above merely boil down to a bit of tweaking on the visual side at this point, and the main focus now should be on the mannerisms, voice etc. which we can't comment on from our vantage point beyond giving suggestions on the typical "do's" and "don'ts".

Enjoy your en femme birthday this weekend, and as they say, "You're not getting older, you're getting better". :thumbsup::heehee:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Samantha you look good..especially your overall face and shape.

Your wig is a big tell though...this is a toughie..you have to it just right on your head and keep it there..i think the overall shape is perfect for you btw..

Also, I think you would look spectacular with those boobs and your broad shoulders in something much more long and flowing around your top side....there are many outfits at lane bryant for example where you get a cute tank top, and then a soft shawl/sweater to go over your shoulder and arms... this type of top would go really well with tight pants or a skinny skirt..

If you are serious about passing, i think the outfits you are showing will make you not pass. I know how fun it is to dress up for yourself, but save those outfits for times when you don't care about blending in,

My only other thought is that I have no doubt you look great enough to blend in very well EVEN IF YOU DON"T PASS TOTALLY... if you get clocked a couple times, don't let it get you down, and you may find that there are moments where this happens that are wonderful and positive...i hope you have a great time

[Samantha W]

Thanks to all for your great advice! You all really came through for me. I don’t have a SO or other GG to talk to, so your help is golden to me.

The top 4 things to work on.....

1. Better wig and wear it at a more proper hairline. I gotta give myself some leeway on this one. I haven't had a natural hair line there since I was 18, so it’s a little hard for me to judge.

2. Tone down the eye shadow a notch and smooth out the lower liner..

3. Smaller breasts. I have never really felt quite right about these forms. I have a 44 inch chest and I thought a pair on the larger side would look more proportional. Oops, a bit to proportional. Also, they don't look this big by themselves, its amazing how much they “grow” when I put them on. :eek:

4. Shorter heels. Even though I love heels, and the higher the better, the goal is to be unnoticed in public. I guess six inch patent leather stiletto’s don’t help that.

A special thanks to Lexi. :)

I will take all of your help to heart and will post some “After” photos soon.

Happy Mothers Day to all you moms out there,

Samantha

[Maddie22]

I agree with the Wig first and foremost. Your eyes will get better with practice. It does for me at least, and even then I'll go out with great eyes one day and I'll hate the way they look the next.

I don't know about the heels. There are a lot of women that go out in larger heels. Like stated before it depends on where you're going and the clothes you are wearing.

I think you could use improvement on what styles of clothes make you (specifically you) appear to have more feminine features. You appear that you have or you do work out, your upper body is large even fore males, which is fine, but what kind of clothes can you wear that will give you an a illusion of a more feminine figure. The clothes in the picture fit you as a man, but not as a woman. It is a trial and error experience, and after awhile you get rather good at being able to choose outfitts that work for you. I have the problem of being very, very tall, slender with long legs and a little bit in the mid-section. So I try to buy clothes that will flare out at the hips area more, and are longer in length.

I think you are doing fine otherwise. I'm not sure if you need smaller breast forms or not. I think with the right clothes they'll look great on you. They might add to the feminine illusion since.

[Barbra P]

Lucky you, I wish I was spending the weekend en femme. I have to agree with most of what has been said so far. The black wig looks like a wig, the hairline is just too sharp – pulling out some hairs to make a wispy bang should help tremendously and it will help cover your forehead, which is a little large. I too think the lipstick might be a little on the light side, but that beats too red. The necklace is a big plus, wear it.

I’d use some concealer under your eyes prior to putting on your foundation to help hide the darkness and bags; I have the same problem. Another trick is to use some light eye shadow just under the brow and again at the inner corner of the eyes. I’d also recommend some blush on the apples of your cheeks, it will make a big difference.

In the bottom picture I think the wig looks much better and it frames your face very nicely and it is a beautiful color. I agree that the girls look a little high and would look more natural if a few inches lower. As to the size, well many women have naturally large breast, my wife does. I would guess that I’m now 5’10” or 5’11” (I was 6’ when I joined the Marines in ’64 and weighted a mere 114 lbs. I weighted 263 lbs last December, but have since dropped to 220 and I hope to get below 200. I just bought my first set of breast forms to fit my 44D bra, and for my size that looks natural. I used to wear a 44C because I didn’t want to attract too much attention with overly large boobs; now I think the 44D girls look totally natural.

Work on your eye makeup. If you can catch a show called “What Not To Wear”, watch it, they do a makeover on the on every show. Carmindy, the makeup artist, has a book out (5-Minute Face) detailing how to do your face in five-minutes, sometimes less is more.

Good luck,

[Kate Simmons]

My advice is to loosen up the hair a bit, cut back on the eye shadow and lighten up your expression. You will be just fine Hon.:)

[skirtsuit]

Ditch the blie eye shadow. Nothing screams CDCDCDCD louder than over done bright blue eye shadow.

I prefer a subtler makeup look, but day wear in my thing.

Best,
SS

[msginaadoll]

To be honest you almost never know if you pass. Do people call you Ms because they are nice or because they believe you are female? If I saw your last pic (with the curly wig) somewhere I would assume that you were female. Pictures however are one thing and real life is another. How you walk, talk, how much your wig looks like real hair, what you are wearing, all influence how people view you. Also passing depends on the crowd you are in and how judgemental they are how accepting, etc. In most cases a toned down look less eyeshadow, neutral lipstick, slacks instead of a short skirt, will make you fit in better.

[Megan70]

Wig looks too wiggy and cheap, like from a costume shop. No offense but you want brutal truth. Don't wear it out , have it styles or buy a new one. Thin your eyebrows a bit, and work on the makeup.