Support

[Sandra]

You come here looking for support, one would hope that it is from all members of this community.

Through reading lots of threads on here, why do you think support is less forth coming from two sections of this community, namely the GGs and one quite often forgotten the FtMs?

For GGs and FtMs feel free to add your reasons why you don't post in this forum, or if you'd like to post anonymously then feel free to pm me with your reply and I will post it for you.

Just one more thing lets keep it civil please. :)

[AllieSF]

I think that, in general, most people post where they find an interesting thread that they feel that they can contribute something to. For FtM's, and I do not have experience there, maybe some are just not interested in reading, or contributing to topics that do not interest them. I do remember 4 years ago when I joined this forum that the FtM's seemed to comment more frequently in MtF and other general forum threads. For SO's/GG's, I think that it may be difficult for a lot of them to even be here and their interests may be only in those areas and threads that may be relevant to their own situation. Plus, they may be shy to take an active part in other similar but not so relevant threads.

[Eryn]

why do you think support is less forth coming from two sections of this community, namely the GGs and one quite often forgotten the FtMs?

Are you meaning to say that GGs and FtMs are less supportive of the MtFs than they should be?

I think that most GGs on the forum are very supportive of their own SOs, but they aren't crossdressers themselves and therefore probably aren't as intensely interested in the specific things that we CDers are interested in. GGs also have their own private forum and this takes some of their attention from the MtF forum.

FtMs are much fewer in number. I don't think that they are underrepresented here.

[shesadvl]

No Eryn! That im sure is NOT what sandra is saying,...

im sure after the last couple of weeks reading in the MTF forum and a couple of threads the GG's and FTM's are supportive, they want to interact in the MtF, but get lambasted for their opinions or even get ignored,....whether they offer it openly or even sternly.....

We are all supportive in all facets of this board no matter a lot of GG's post in the fab,....trying to get their heads round what ever they are going through.The like im sure to get opinions from those that CD,. and go through different things.

Some of the MtF's or even the CD'ers that have supporting wifes, are very good at interacting with the others with their viewpoints and opinions...
there are some that are totally arrogant whether they have supporting so's or not. When some of them throw tantrums come in here and post, because they are so pi***d at their SO,... and the GG's give their points of view in a kick in the butt for the poster,
they get harranged/lambasted in the thread by that CD'ing poster whether it is in the thread or in PM's.... thats why they wont come back and post in the MTF.
(Some make it personal)...

I sometimes would like to go through the screen to those particular MtF poster's n slap him or kick their butt, (they may just like it of course,.. but its not kool to behave like this......lol)

when there is something not going their way,.. they Diss/bash or post an insult,... not only about their SO,.. but all that try and support,..whether it be that CD'er, & their SO or anyone else in here.....

Im a power to believe the GG's and the Ftm's would interact better if some of those that CD, used their brains to think with,....:brolleyes: and dont come at me that we are in femme mode when we behave like this....or its pink fog...:battingeyelashes: you are one and the same person dressed or not....
There should be total respect for everyone... some GG's can relate to what is happening because they may have gone through the exact same thing,.. and they sternly share how they handle things and what they do if that particular poster was their partner,,.,..

I know there have been attackes of on others that try to interact and then the thread grows a head and 8 legs and goes way off track to where it should be....or they get totally ignored when they do express an opinion....
we are all allowed our opinions and to learn and share,... but in saying this does that give some of you GUYs, yes,... its the clothes that change,.... the right to do this,.. to the female members or other cding memebrs of this forum.... NO...
we are all here for interaction and support no matter what it may be.....:battingeyelashes:

theres a saying i live by....
treat others as to how you would wish to be treated,.
Respect others as well as your own....:battingeyelashes:

irene shesadvl yup thats me....:battingeyelashes:

EDIT: I hope this is civil sandra.... a generalisation as I a GG see

something one of the members has as a signature... and i think its apt....


"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your troubles, you wouldn't sit for a month."
~Theodore Roosevelt

[Tammy V]

I think its mostly due to the fact that there are less gg's or ftm's on this particular forum than the others. One sometimes senses a snooty attitude from ftm's, but I have a good friend here who is transitioning and is very supportive of me.

[Eryn]

No Eryn! That im sure is NOT what sandra is saying,...

That is why I questioned what she wrote. I hope that Sandra will clarify her meaning for us.

[docrobbysherry]

Maybe some of u r complicating things?

And, the differences r simply extensions of the historical differences between men and women?

[Engendered]

I'm already worried as to where this topic is heading. I've found the GGs nothing but supportive and interesting, both when I arrived eons ago (not that long hehe), and now. I can't really comment on the FTMs as I don't see them much here, but I don't visit their forum either. I haven't seen either of those groups being poorly treated though, although I've heard a lot recently about it happening. If anything, in the last year or so, I've found the opposite to be true. Whenever a new GG posts, there's always a lot of support and welcome, and I think (for me this is true) most of us would be interested in GG perspectives, as you're something a lot of us aspire to in many ways. :)

[shesadvl]

docrobbysherry i may agree there,.. on the historical or hysterical....lol.......neither sex is wired the same way...and that is spoken of in here a lot as well....

but in essence when a male ... CD's, and love's wearing womens clothing does that make him female?? in looks perhaps,... or think like one...I dont think so because some behave badly,.. with some of the comments I have read here, I shake my head,...n think wow they want to emulate women and i am darned sure if women behaved like some of you here,... you wouldnt give us the same accord,.. we perhaps do give to you lot.,... I know and I am speaking for myself that I have always been supportive whether it be in here, my SO or even friends in the transgendered community out here,...
There is always going to be differences between the two sexes,... Idealism, perhaps in the behaviour of each is something,.... perhaps some need to be mindful of because,..

I know if we as women (GG's) behaved like some of those of you in here do dressed, our partners/SO's wouldnt stand for it,.. so why should we stand for your behaviour dressed, in the same way.... something to think about....:battingeyelashes:

Engendered:
I think (for me this is true) most of us would be interested in GG perspectives, as you're something a lot of us aspire to in many ways.


for the most i agree, but some dont get it...lol.... :battingeyelashes: i think its a male thing laffing...;)

[Lorileah]

here's my thought. FtM's are working to be M's They don't give a rat's a...uh patoot about color of panties, or "passing" or why their spouses (since most have spouses that already accept or they don't have SO's) don't accept them, or how "WONDERFUL" it is to walk at midnight or hiding in the closet. And then when they do comment for some reason any playful attitude (this is when I saw the most reaction from the FtM's) is met with anger or they get ignored. Then they fade away from saying anything to the CD's here. Not really much different than the MtF's who are working toward transition. They are working on being female not worrying about shopping for a bra.

As far as the GG's, what exactly do you want for support? The ones who are here are obviously more supportive than many others who are not on here. They want to understand and then when they get to that level I see them adding TONS of support except on the threads about panties color, passing..... And why should they keep pounding their heads against the wall when the blanket "women are mean and women are jealous and women just don't get us" is cast upon them?

I want us all to be one happy family but we keep splintering into factions. Hard to support factions especially when it is either narcissism or anger they have to try and support.

[Rianna Humble]

I hadn't been going to comment because at first reading, I thought this was going to be a thread which was mainly for GG's and FtM's to say what they feel.


I'm sure after the last couple of weeks reading in the MTF forum and a couple of threads the GG's and FTM's are supportive, they want to interact in the MtF, but get lambasted for their opinions or even get ignored,....whether they offer it openly or even sternly.....

Like Shesa, I see many GG's offering a lot of support. What saddens me is when this gets thrown back in their faces or when it gets treated as if they don't know what they are talking about - I see this especially when people in this forum are debating their idea on how women think or dress etc.

I think I can understand why some FtM's might not venture very often into the MtF forum. They don't always get a rapturous welcome when they do post and I get the impression that some MtF look down on our FtM brethren which saddens me.

There may be a secondary reason which is similar to the reason that I rarely post in the FtM forum, I don't have much understanding of what an FtM transperson is going through so I rarely find myself able to contribute anything useful. However, when I do, I invariably get a good reception which (unfortunately) is not my experience of what happens when an FtM offers support in this forum.

[Sandra]

GG anonymous reply

One thing people/CDers have to realize is that there are many levels of acceptance for GGs. Everything from walking out the door when you find out to the SO that supports, encourages and participates. (and beyond, I guess) Every woman that makes it to this site is amazing and wonderful. Not just the women that are on the far end of the spectrum. If a woman has come to this site, she is trying to find more information about cding, trying to find support, trying to wrap her head around the concept, trying to find hope, because they love their SO more than anything. So, yes, I think EVERY woman that makes it to this site is an amazing, wonderful and loving woman.

My rule of thumb is as follows. If I wouldn't want my husband to see what I posted in the MTF forum, then I shouldn't post it. There are some cders that come to this forum and post things they ought to be ashamed of and then try to make themselves feel better by attacking someone who has called their attention to the ill-worded/disrespectful post. Or, sometimes, it seems they want to treat this forum as their own little fantasy world and don't want it to be intruded on. So, they get angry when confronted by a GG that calls them on it and then attacks them in the post or PMs. Too bad, so sad. Live with it. We do.

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Some have asked for clarification of the thread hope this helps.
The thread is not about the support that we the GGs get.

People come here looking for support and advise, and when a GG chimes in and disagrees then she is jumped on just because she doesn't agree and don't say that doesn't happen because it has happened to me.

If you look you will see that it is the same GGs who post. We have around 100 GGs in the FAB forum, not all are active and a lot just read but out of those who are active, say they won't post in the main forum because of the attitude of some of the replies they get.

One thing that does come across is that if a GG is not fully accepting, and she replies and again disagrees, she is slammed as being non accepting.

Again this is not about the support the GGs get, but the support that is offered and then when the GGs disagree it's thrown back in our faces.

[SheriM]

I appreciate the posts from GG's. They often give a perspective that can only come from a woman. Sometimes I am amazed that we have GG's posting but they are very much appreciated. It's great to communicate with other CD's but even greater to talk to women.
SheriM

[Sandra]

Thank you Sheri

But can I ask why are you amazed that some GGS are posting here?


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GG anonymous reply

Why don't I post or act very supportive of the CD/TG community or members of this site?

It's because of my experiences with the one I live with.

He's a liar. And he's still lying. He says one thing to me in our lives and then I see him posting something different on here. It feels icky, you know? I have stopped challenging him about this sort of stuff because then he goes off on a tangent about how I don't appreciate him.

He doesn't get that what I don't appreciate is the dishonesty!

He has betrayed my trust and hasn't done a thing to rebuild it. He lied to me about who he was before we got married (a transsexual woman) and he is still lying about it. He acts like I am a jerk for being intolerant of his activities. I would probably be more tolerant (and I was at first) if he were still acting like loving partner I married. He no longer does.

I feel taken for granted and robbed of the life, the sex life, and the partner that I had four years ago.

He is so incredibly self-centered and self-focused that for me, his dressing and transition activities feel like he is having an affair with another woman - and he is: with himself. Or 'herself', if you want to get technical about it.

I have been marginalized in our marriage and our lives, yet I keep hanging in there, trying to make it work because I know what it's like to be rejected and abandoned for simply being yourself. I keep hoping he will 'come out of it' and still be my partner and husband.

Please don't misunderstand me - I 'get' that he is a transsexual woman. But I don't get why he can't still be the loving and supportive person I married.

So, to make a long ugly story short, because of my experience with my husband, I tend to think all of you are self-centered narcicistic liars and betrayers.

Why in the world would I want to support that?

[SheriM]

I have a wife that used to accept a girdle and nylons or pantyhose. She caught me once in a skirt and that was the end of the acceptance other than panties. Until I started reading this forum, that was my world and it was just sort of a surprise that there would be GG's would be interest and contribute. But thanks just the same.
SheriM

[Rianna Humble]

The thread is not about the support that we the GGs get.

People come here looking for support and advise, and when a GG chimes in and disagrees then she is jumped on just because she doesn't agree and don't say that doesn't happen because it has happened to me.

If you look you will see that it is the same GGs who post. We have around 100 GGs in the FAB forum, not all are active and a lot just read but out of those who are active, say they won't post in the main forum because of the attitude of some of the replies they get.

One thing that does come across is that if a GG is not fully accepting, and she replies and again disagrees, she is slammed as being non accepting.

The support that the GG's who post in this part of the site offer is beyond invaluable. Suppport is not about just agreeing with everything someone says, it also involves challenging and sometimes correcting misconceptions.

When a GG disagrees with what is being said in a thread, we should weigh that disagreement carefully and see what we can learn from it - we should not be attacking the person for having dared to disagree. It is possible to disagree with what someone says and still learn from it.

If a GG is less than 100% supportive but has taken the time to come to this site to learn and to discuss, then instead of lambasting them as being unaccepting, we should be trying to address the issues that make them hold back and (I'll say it again) see what we can learn.

If people only want a mutual admiration society rather than true support, then they are in the wrong place here. All of us, whether MtF CD, MtF TS, FtM CD or TS and GG can benefit from proper support which is what I look for on this site.

[Tina B.]

Sandra, I don't see where posting this is helping your augment




Why don't I post or act very supportive of the CD/TG community or members of this site?

It's because of my experiences with the one I live with.

He's a liar. And he's still lying. He says one thing to me in our lives and then I see him posting something different on here. It feels icky, you know? I have stopped challenging him about this sort of stuff because then he goes off on a tangent about how I don't appreciate him.

He doesn't get that what I don't appreciate is the dishonesty!

He has betrayed my trust and hasn't done a thing to rebuild it. He lied to me about who he was before we got married (a transsexual woman) and he is still lying about it. He acts like I am a jerk for being intolerant of his activities. I would probably be more tolerant (and I was at first) if he were still acting like loving partner I married. He no longer does.

I feel taken for granted and robbed of the life, the sex life, and the partner that I had four years ago.

He is so incredibly self-centered and self-focused that for me, his dressing and transition activities feel like he is having an affair with another woman - and he is: with himself. Or 'herself', if you want to get technical about it.

I have been marginalized in our marriage and our lives, yet I keep hanging in there, trying to make it work because I know what it's like to be rejected and abandoned for simply being yourself. I keep hoping he will 'come out of it' and still be my partner and husband.

Please don't misunderstand me - I 'get' that he is a transsexual woman. But I don't get why he can't still be the loving and supportive person I married.

So, to make a long ugly story short, because of my experience with my husband, I tend to think all of you are self-centered narcissistic liars and betrayers.

Why in the world would I want to support that?

This is not the first post I've seen where it sounds like we are all being found guilty of the crimes of one very selfish person, it kinds of makes a guy/girl feel rather defensive.
Yes we may disagree with a post by a female, that is not disrespect, just difference in opinion. It always comes up as we are so harsh, butr if you read some of our post among just CD's we can be just as disagreeable, some times it just happens at the wrong time. After all we are the biggest group in here and sometimes, there will ugliness said, but it's not personal, and it's bound to happen in a group this size but that is no reason to act as if it where just a product of being transgendered, some of us can be very lady like, sometimes, and some times a GG can come off as very bitter, and angry and take it out on the wrong people, we could all do better, but that's what I thought this place was for, a place where we can all try to learn to communicate with each others better. Lets all keep trying!
Tina B.

[TGMarla]

To the GGs that are struggling with this....those of you who put up with those dishonest husbands, and ones who cannot tell you why they do this, but get irritated or angry when you call them out on it.....etc.....

I don't blame you one damn bit!

Here I am, a guy, a husband to a quite wonderful woman who really doesn't support this. I get it. I don't know why I do this, but I know that I am compelled to do it anyway. I don't ask you to participate, and I know you don't want to. I don't even ask for your understanding, because really, I don't quite understand it either. It doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have any bearing on how much I love you, and I'm committed to being your husband forever. But I like being a girl, and I just can't help it.

But be that as it may, if I was a wife, and my husband was running around in flippy little dresses and high heels.....and fake boobs, for crying out loud!.....I'd probably have a thing or two to say about it, too. I mean, seriously, you're not a lesbian; you married a man, and you expect to have one for a husband. Yet, many of us just sit here and expect you to not only support us, but then we want you to participate, and even have sex with us while we're sporting our lacy little frillies. And then we don't understand, and even get defensive and angry when you voice your most deserved opinions of the whole matter.

So they find this site hoping for some insight and understanding, only to find out that we don't understand it either. Gee, that's enlightening. Thanks for nothing. But just try posting your lack of understanding here. The responses can be a bit rough, even though, as the females in the whole equation, you're the ones who's territory is being invaded. You're the ones who are worried about the future of your marriage. You're the ones who have to deal with the possibility that your man is going to go and have a sex change. Is it so much to ask that the man you married be the man in your life instead of some other person....a woman?

Finding out your hubby likes being a girl, finding out he crossdresses and presents as a woman, man....that's life throwing a curve ball at you, isn't it? If you're not okay with it, I get that. I understand. I'd probably not be too thrilled about it either.

Okay, are we still wondering why the GGs don't often voice a whole lot of support for us?

As for the F2Ms around here, I'm sure they just don't give a rat's ass whether we have matching shoes or not.

[Sherlyn]

Yeah Sandra I'm glad you posted this thread ..I hear it from Di all the time ....she has gotten to the point she will not even go in this section ..and I ask her why ..... she feels not listened to when offering advice or it's taken as a criticism and not support ...and believe me the advice she has given me ...well lets just say I'm better at understanding the way I am thanx to her ...

[DemonicDaughter]

I can speak only for myself.

I use to post a lot. I'm quite supportive of this community, I am in a loving relationship with a Transwoman whom I adore. I have tons of friends in this community. But some time ago, I started to feel that no matter what I posted, no matter how much support I showed, nothing I said made a damn bit of difference. I'm a strong, independent, confident woman who believes in empowering those around me, regardless of gender, appearance, occupation, politics, religion, etc. It's difficult to respond to threads in which "womanly things" are often described as housekeeping and child rearing. It's difficult to show support to individuals who reduce a woman's role in their marriage to nothing more than if she supports their crossdressing or not. To TOLD how "real woman" act when I know not a single woman who does those things, is utterly infuriating as again, it's reduced to such trivial topics/actions. It's how women use to feel when told that "women don't have the mind for such intellect" and how a woman's brain was incapable of understanding the complexities of a man. :eek:

I don't post in the MtF section often because some people have such a stick up their rear that it's tickling their brains. Even when I've shown support, I've been bashed. Even when I've stood up for people in this community, I've gotten others basically calling me a liar because they've had no personal experience with someone as supportive as I claimed to be.

So apparently, I'm a frikken unicorn. So like the elusive unicorn, I only allow glimpses and flashes of light but no longer bother roaming the woods freely as hunters lurk around every corner attempting to kill whatever beauty they can find because they do not possess it themselves.

[Sandra]

Sandra, I don't see where posting this is helping your augment

Everyone is allowed to have their say as to why..and it shows that for some they don't post because of their own situation....but as I've already said the majority won't post because what they say is wrong to so many.


Thank you to all who sofar have responded

[Lucy_Bella]

I feel that sometimes because of how things come out through text instead of normal conversation, people find offense to what has been said ( typed )instead of the real meaning and feeling the person was expressing...

I am really awful with grammar and sometimes my responses in here come out the complete opposite of what I really meant to say.. Sandra , I will be the first to say that I have learned a lot from you and others in this Forum with my way of thinking verses how it is really percieved in the real world..Yes I find support here it just takes it a while to sink in sometimes..:)

[Momarie]

"So apparently, I'm a frikken unicorn. So like the elusive unicorn, I only allow glimpses and flashes of light but no longer bother roaming the woods freely as hunters lurk around every corner attempting to kill whatever beauty they can find because they do not possess it themselves."

Wow DD, that is a profound and powerful analogy!

[Raynefall]

I for one think most of the GG's on here have been very supportive. They may have a different opinion than I do but that's just life. Also the difference between speech and text can make something sound completely different than it's meant.

As for the ones who don't support the people on here you have a right to not. But just be a little more open minded and realize that not everyone is the same. We are just like you. Some secrets are just a little too deep to share openly. It takes a little while. I still haven't told my gf about my CD'ing but it's only because I am scared. Not because I am trying to keep it a secret and lie. If you had one huge secret and you fell in love with someone and that someone loved you back but this one thing could destroy everything that you have built I doubt you would be so willing as to say it yourself. So take a look in the mirror and realize that you are most likely doing it as well. Maybe not the same kind of secret. But one that if shared could possibly ruin your life with that person. It just takes time to be ready.

But I think that if the whole community were to be supportive it would be great. Because though we may not all agree your opinion may be what helps someone make an important decision. For you GG's that don't support us because you have been lied to... Why not help us so that we can come out to our SO? So that we don't make them feel the way that you have been feeling. I am sure that is the last thing any of us want is for our SO to feel that way. Support can do wonders.

[Denise69]

I've only been lurking here for a short while. Through the fuzz, Many times I've seen the rants against GG's and others who speak out against the thread. It mortifies me everytime. Having been down the road of hiding, lying, deception and non-acceptance, because of my OWN actions. I have no right to be bitter and angry towards anyone who speaks out in differing opinion. Having a truly accepting SO, has been so uplifting for me, emotionally and spiritually I would never dream of betraying her trust. To the GG's who have been burned at the Stake here, I apologize. Not for the actions of others, but for my own inaction to respond. To Renne, Sandra and the multitude of other girls who post ops regardless of how they know it will be responded to. Thank you. Your insight has proved useful I'm sure to many of us. To the Naysayers and bashers, Buck up, put your big girl panties on and realize this is a place for all.


Thanks,
Denise

[Tamara Croft]

Why don't I post anymore in this section? because being an administrator I get that thrown in my face as soon as I post, doesn't matter what I say, I'm an admin and I should know better. So those that constantly said it got their request, I stopped posting on the board all together and now just sit in the background doing admin stuff, I'm not allowed to be a member.

[DAVIDA]

Screw em Tamara!
I have ALLWAYS been interested in your opinion!
I really like it when you call down someone who is being an ass!:thumbsup:

[Sandra]

Tamara I too have had it thrown at me..."you're a moderator you should know better" all because we disagree or speak some home truths. I am a member here and have just as much right to express my opinion as anyone else.

[Danni Renee]

First, I hardly feel qualified to comment on this thread - some of you have thousands of posts and I am barely over 100!

However, I think that is one of the issues. We are all at different places in our journeys and the GGs and FtM are on entirely differnet journeys so some tension is normal. I sometimes feel like I am a 1st grader trying to talk to high school seniors about my issues and I expect there to be some negative reactions simply because I am new and others have already been in my place and moved on. So frustration is a normal reaction, both when a relatively new member comments on a more experienced member's thread and when an experienced member comments on a newbie's thread.

I think the same applies to GGs and FtM posting on MtF and vice versa. There are topics that are common ground but because we are on different journeys and at different places in our journeys it can be hard to completely relate and when the frustration sets in, things get negative.

But the solution is the same as we all learned in school: do unto other as you would have done to you and if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all.

P.S. One thing to remember is that it is difficult for a person's tone to be properly reflected in the words they type in a post. My SO uses many emoticons to let me know how she intends things to be taken and I think there is a distinctive lack of tone or tone indicators in most posts here leading to misinterpretations.

[kimdl93]

I'm not sure I have anything new to contribute to this discussion,but I'm going to throw in my 2 cents worth anyway. I thin that there's as much GG support as one could reasonably expect. And as others have pointed out, there's not really much here that is relevant to an FtM. But my point would be that "support" isn't necessarily limited to people offering encouragement, empathy and consolation. Support can and often should be a reality check, a wake up call, a seemingly harsh criticism. And as a discussion group we should expect and encourage debate. With debate, there can be misunderstanding, heightened emotions, ill-considered remarks, hurt feelings and wounded egos. As far as I'm concerned, that all falls under the broad definition of "support".

[Phylis Nicole Schuyler]

Here! Here! Denise69. Excellant point. We need more viewpoints of GG because that will help try to understand what thry see when told that their SO is a crossdresser.

[Transformed]

We really need to welcome differences of opinion.

To just be happy with opinions that agree with us we become closed and no longer grow as people.

We can learn more by listening to those who disagree with us rather than seeking shelter with only those who share our viewpoint.

It's a good topic to discuss.

I welcome the input of GGs, It is me who is looking for a GG to accept me which must be difficult. I need to do my part by making that easier and to do so I welcome and grasp on to any advice, as difficult as it may be to hear.

It would be a shame to drove the GGs away.

[Lucy_Bella]

Why don't I post anymore in this section? because being an administrator I get that thrown in my face as soon as I post, doesn't matter what I say, I'm an admin and I should know better. So those that constantly said it got their request, I stopped posting on the board all together and now just sit in the background doing admin stuff, I'm not allowed to be a member.

I wish you would post here more often:love:... Would love to hear more from you rather than doing Administrator stuff all the time:)..

[lizlizzie]

My spouse is M2F. For me, the cross-dressing is a very different situation. So I don't really have much to contribute, except to sometimes respond to comments about how many bras I own or something similarly general to women.

I have posted in the M2F forum and just end up frustrated, angry, and with wrong information. It feels that there are several persons who do most of the posting and everything is their way and anything non-conforming to their transition experience is attacked as posing, not really trans, or otherwise just being told it can't be that way. I have learned over the past 2 years there is a lot of misinformation, which for a spouse makes it even harder to be supportive through my husband's transitioning. And those same persons make me feel as if I am less of a person because in a relationship I believe I should have the right to express my needs too and that both parties have to compromise if their goal is to keep their relationship. There have been some very thoughtful responses, but the majority have pretty much told me that I am not truly supportive, that everything must be about the transitioning spouse and nothing can be about me, and it doesn't matter anyway because if my spouse really was M2F, she would be interested in men and be pursuing SRS as her ultimate goal. For my own mental health and for the betterment of my relationship, it is best for me not to try to understand by posting questions in that forum.

So, I stick with the FAB section where we don't have to agree in order to be supportive of one another and we accept that while we have commonality it doesn't require conformity.

[Babeba]

I thin that there's as much GG support as one could reasonably expect.

Support can and often should be a reality check, a wake up call, a seemingly harsh criticism. And as a discussion group we should expect and encourage debate. With debate, there can be misunderstanding, heightened emotions, ill-considered remarks, hurt feelings and wounded egos. As far as I'm concerned, that all falls under the broad definition of "support".

Honestly, I don't think I really need 'support' from the MtF forums anymore, I just come in here because I love talking. However - that's not the case for the majority of active GG posters at any one time! They rotate through faster than I think many of you realise. It is pretty damn daunting to come here as a brand new GG and try and learn about what the hell this cross dressing thing is all about.

I've got a thick enough skin that when I see someone has slammed one of my posts I don't really take it personally, but the thing which really hurts me a lot to see is when a new GG joins, posts a handful of times about her personal life - often having absolutely no one to turn to in real life to help them sort through something life has thrust at them which is confusing and new at best and a devastating emotional betrayal at worst - and stops shortly after someone (generally MtF of some sort) rants at them from their own narrow little ideological viewpoint, or their own particular bug bear about cross dressing.

I really feel that the most important thing to do first off when a new GG posts is to make her feel welcome, and let her know that she's not alone and that there are others out there going through the same thing. It's also important for her to see CDers and transpeople as REAL people and not just horrible caricatures. Open-ended, non confrontational questions might help her start to see things from the SO's point of view - and it's only after they start to feel settled - say, 20 or 30 posts in - that some of that "harsh reality" MIGHT not completely scare them off and put an end to them trying to understand their spouse.

What it boils down to is, would you like for the world at large to accept crossdressing to the point where no-one bats an eye at a Transwoman going about her every day, or a crossdresser going on their first tentative outing, or even a guy dressing up in a skirt? Then to get to that point, the people on this forum are going to have to be a lot kinder and more tolerant of those people trying their damndest to start to understand what makes you all tick. Until a new GG can reasonably expect to be completely, seamlessly welcome here, then I think the world at large gives as much support as MtF Crossdressers can expect.

You know, maybe THAT'S the key as to why some MtFers seem to think FtMs have it easier. They're just more welcoming, and get that reflected back at them.

[ReineD]

I post in here all the time and I don't personally experience many problems although some members can be catty sometimes. But, I agree with Babeba. I hate it when we have a new GG in Loved Ones who posts about her difficulties in coming to grips with the CDing, and some members will regurgitate all their own frustrations onto her. It doesn't take much, just one or two members who do this, to make this GG not want to post in the public forums any more.

I do want to thank the majority of you here, who are very kind and supportive to our newbie GGs. :hugs:

Another issue is, if a CDer is having difficulty with his wife but then a GG comes in and sides with the wife, it's sad to see some CDers jump down her throat. The CD might instead take the time to question the GG if he doesn't understand or agree with her post, to hopefully gain insight as to why she feels this way since doing so might help him resolve the issues with his wife.

The worst is when CDers or TSs feel that GGs are being irrational b*tches when they are not completely supportive of their husbands. This is hard to take, for the GG who is here ultimately because she wants to learn. Learning takes time and if she feels her opinion is not valid or respected, she will stop posting and she will walk away with a less than favorable opinion of CDers (or TSs).

[RebeccaJ]

Personally I truly value the opinions of all, but especially GG's. They provide insight that you could never get from another CD as they see the situation through a different lens. I learn a lot about myself and how my wife may feel from their views and as such find them invaluable. Even if the views are different, it provides an opportunity to step back a little and reevaluate. Although a new member I was lurking for some time. I am very impressed with your comments ReineD and appreciate your postings and could not agree more with the posting by Babeba...Thank You!

[Engendered]

I thought I'd reply again before the topic disappears from consciousness. :)
It's obvious that quite a few GGs have had bad experiences here, where they feel like their contributions have been marginalized or at the worst felt like they were being attacked for expressing a view. All the replies here condemn that sort of behaviour, as it should be, but I think further to that we should make more of an effort to step in if we see something like this happening on any topic in the future.
This goes for both sides, as I've seen some GGs dismiss CDs in a "you have no idea, you're not a real girl" way (without using those exact words of course). It's clear that both sides can have their view of CDs or SOs tainted by their own personal experience and can project that unfairly in broad strokes. If we can all express our views respectfully, and not dismiss each other because we live at the opposite side of a coin, and if we can stand up for anyone unfairly treated like this, then I think it would gradually encourage more and more people to express themselves. I will keep an eye out and make a personal effort if I can anyway.

Too long, didn't read: "Let's all chip in and make an effort so that this sort of thing doesn't keep happening here". :)

[shesadvl]

I've only been lurking here for a short while. Through the fuzz, Many times I've seen the rants against GG's and others who speak out against the thread. It mortifies me everytime. Having been down the road of hiding, lying, deception and non-acceptance, because of my OWN actions. I have no right to be bitter and angry towards anyone who speaks out in differing opinion. Having a truly accepting SO, has been so uplifting for me, emotionally and spiritually I would never dream of betraying her trust. To the GG's who have been burned at the Stake here, I apologize. Not for the actions of others, but for my own inaction to respond. To Renne, Sandra and the multitude of other girls who post ops regardless of how they know it will be responded to. Thank you. Your insight has proved useful I'm sure to many of us. To the Naysayers and bashers, Buck up, put your big girl panties on and realize this is a place for all.


Thanks,
Denise

I was re reading through this thread and I applaude you Denise69 :clap: thankyou & others for your observations. :battingeyelashes:


To the Naysayers and bashers, Buck up, put your big girl panties on and realize this is a place for all.

footnote: I wish Tamara would get back into posting here, but I understand her comment on why she does not post, I have seen some of these comments
against her, and the other moderators they are like us,... all members,... but they have a bigger stick, to keep order and sensability if you call some of what we read that :battingeyelashes: