Where is the line?

[Delila]

I would love to hear from anyone that is transitioning. At what point do you decide that you are no longer a CDer and that it is time to transition? Do you take into account things like height weight and body shape? I am just curious these are questions that I have asked myself many times. I have so many times wished that I had real breasts and to have sex like a real woman I am just tall and built like a man I also don't have the reported disgust with my male organs. Thank you for any replies.

[Kate Simmons]

Basically when you realize it's more about who you are and how you feel rather than the clothes you are wearing.:)

[Danni Renee]

Delila - when you find that line, let me know. I am looking for it too! At first I thought I was just a crossdresser but the more I dress and experience myself the more I understand there is more to this than I at first thought. I have the same wishes as you (with the possible exception that I also dream of being pregnant and a mother) but when I look in the mirror, even dressed, I do not see the person I want to be and I wonder even if I did transition if I would ever be who I want to be.

[Stephenie S]

As Danni said you will never be the person you dream of being. All you can do is be the person you are.

Does this mean you can't live life the way you want? No. Of course it doesn't. It just means that you will never be 17, skinny, and sexy. Even if you were natal female you wouldn't be 17, skinny, and sexy. Not any more.

Look in that mirror. What you see is what you get. Live with it. It's all you got. You can lose the beard. You can grow your hair out. You can lose weight. You can get breast implants. You can even buy a vagina. Other than that you're pretty much done. You will be that tall woman with the unfortunate body. But did you hear me? You will be that tall WOMAN with the unfortunate body. You can do it if you have anything more than a fantasy dream in your head. But your body is your own. Love it.

You can transition. Many do. But they don't transition into skinny, sexy, 17 year olds. You can live the rest of your life female. Go ahead. All you have to do is do it. Whining about it on a forum like this is, of course, is another alternative. You can do that too.

Stephie

[celeste26]

I guess the line is where you make it. If your life suffers, by whatever standard you choose, because you are not totally accepted in the feminine role then maybe you really a TS. If your life works well with part time expression of your girlie side then probably not.

[Tina B.]

For a true TS, I doubt there current body shape, or beauty have a lot to do with it. If you feel like a women on the inside, you are going to feel that way, no matter what the outside looks like. Lucky for us not all GGs are Short, thin, curvaceous, or Beautiful. Some "real women" are tall, fat, lumpy, and plain looking. Funny it's just like that with men too. So I thinks it's more about what you see yourself as, now who you look. Me I can't pass, and I have no plans to take it any farther, but that doesn't mean I'm don't feel more TS, than I do a CD. If I could go back in time, I might have done it a lot different, had I have known how I would feel when I got to this age.
Tina B.

[kimdl93]

there's constant confusion and debate about defining CD and TS. I think instead of looking for a bright defining line we need to think of an array or spectrum radiating in 3 dimensions (or more?). Imagine that e ach of us might over the course of our lives, plot a unique path through that universe, reflecting the confluence of these dimensions. How many dimensions - I might include physical attributes, emotional make up, genetic predisposition, developmental exposure to hormones, self identification, life experiences, social setting and interpersonal relationships...there could be more, that define us. I rather doubt that many of us are simply CD. Some combination of things brought us to that point and other factors will influence our individual paths into the future.

[Rianna Humble]

I think that for just about everyone the answer top this question will be different.

In my case, I realised it was time to transition because I could no longer continue pretending to be a man and being a "bloke in a dress" didn't cut it for me either. If I am honest with myself, I have always known that I was not a man, but for a long time I refused to admit it to myself and fought it with all my might.

When I finally gave in to the need to dress, I still tried to lie to myself because I had persuaded myself that life would be worse as "an ugly woman" than as an ugly man.

The decision to transition came at the point where I was finally able to say "I would rather spend the rest of my life as an ugly woman than spend another day as a man". Luckily people tell me that I am not ugly as a woman although they are probably saying that to be kind.

My height, weight and body size did not have any part in my decision to transitiuon, but the last two do have an influence over where I can shop so I do want to lose a couple of dress sizes.

Others here have reported that they did not have the disgust with their male anatomy but that has not stopped them from finding what was right for themselves.

Like Danni, I have often dreamt of being a biological mother, but it won't happen in my lifetime :sad:

In the end, no-one can answer the question of whether you are a CD or TS for you, but when you do accept whichever answer is appropriate for you at least you will be at peace with it.

[JohnH]

When I step out of the shower and see my breasts, high waist above the navel, and hips, I feel that I am a good candidate for transition. I also saw somewhere that if you hold your palms to the front, most men can drop their arms to the sides. Most women can't and they stick out. I cannot drop my arms to the sides with my palms facing forward, just like a typical natal woman.

When I was a lot heavier my body looked kind of strange. But since I have lost weight I now see sort of feminine proportions.

I'm OK with my male parts. However, if I woke up and found a vagina instead of a penis I would not be upset either.
On the other hand I really despise the styles and grooming standards imposed on men, and I would like to be able to wear feminine clothing as a woman and not as a "man in a dress".

If I lost whatever is left of my masculine appearance that would be great.

I would be able to talk like a woman, but my singing voice is extremely deep - basso profundo. So I would have to dress as a man for a church worship service in a man's suit.

Johanna

[Areyan]

fantasizing about sex with men and wishing occasionally that you have breasts and look amazing as a woman is not transsexualism - it's fantasy. if you feel far too comfortable with your current life to truly give it up for the hardship of becoming the opposite gender then you are not transsexual. as the others here have stated, being trans isn't about becoming some hot, young, nubile-bodied version of yourself. for most of us that time really has passed by the time we come to accept ourselves. for most people who are TS the disparity between our minds and our bodies becomes so damning and difficult to deal with that we simply cannot operate in our natal genders and Stephanie is right - we dun have unrealistic ideas of how we want to look either. it isn't ideal for me but i have to accept i'm a short t-guy. it's reality. it certainly won't stop me from being who i am.

if you are not crying all the time about your male life and desperately trying hard NOT to dress when you leave the house i doubt you are ready for transition. if you have purged many times in your life and lived in denial this doesn't mean you're just a cross dresser either, the lines can be blurred and many CDs are also transgendered, though not candidates for hormones and surgery. from my experience with my MTF partner, the time came for her when she risked losing our income because she couldn't leave the house dressed as a male any longer, even though she was risking torment and possible physical violence to go outdoors in feminine clothing in our area (we lived in bigotville at the time).

i deal with gender dysphoria on a weekly and sometimes daily basis and it's no joke. i have come to suicidal thinking many times and drowned my sorrows in the bottle on many a night to stop myself from doing something horrible to end it all. you don't have to be suicidal about your gender to be trans but if you are it's a good sign you're not just a cross dresser. for me being trans is less about fantasizing about life in my target gender than it is dealing with the horrible reality of my current gender. if i was just a cross dresser this would all be rather fun. and no it isn't, no way. :straightface: i only hope that i will know peace someday when i do get to transition.

[JohnH]

No one torments me nor threatens me with physical violence whenever I step out of the house with feminine clothing [Not just girl's pants and blouse, but wearing a skirt or dress]. Areyan, you must live in some really red-neck intolerant area. I would rather step out of the house dressed, but if I have to be in drab no big deal. Instead of shorts I wear denim skirts, even when I am otherwise in drab.

I do NOT have any fantasies about having sex with males. So everybody is different.

I do not have any illusions of being a young nubile female. I would have to have a double mastectomy and take testosterone to assume a typical male configuration since I suspect my breast growth is due to andropause [deficiency of testosterone]. And that is definitely NOT going to happen.

I used to drown my sorrows with alcohol before I allowed my feminine side to come out. So I know in a way the feeling of gender dysphoria.

Johanna

[Sophora]

I think that for just about everyone the answer top this question will be different.

In my case, I realised it was time to transition because I could no longer continue pretending to be a man and being a "bloke in a dress" didn't cut it for me either. If I am honest with myself, I have always known that I was not a man, but for a long time I refused to admit it to myself and fought it with all my might.

When I finally gave in to the need to dress, I still tried to lie to myself because I had persuaded myself that life would be worse as "an ugly woman" than as an ugly man.

The decision to transition came at the point where I was finally able to say "I would rather spend the rest of my life as an ugly woman than spend another day as a man". Luckily people tell me that I am not ugly as a woman although they are probably saying that to be kind.


This is my struggle at the moment. I am have denied my true feelings for so long because I was afraid of what people are thinking. I am starting to think that I want to be that "happy ugly woman" now rather then being that "unhappy depressed ugly guy." I know in my heart that I always have been a girl. I am just starting to accept that.


When I step out of the shower and see my breasts, high waist above the navel, and hips, I feel that I am a good candidate for transition. I also saw somewhere that if you hold your palms to the front, most men can drop their arms to the sides. Most women can't and they stick out. I cannot drop my arms to the sides with my palms facing forward, just like a typical natal woman.


OMG! I never knew that. I tried it and I can't drop my arms to the sides, they stick out. I have to force myself to do that and even then it is comfortable, and I was in the military for 10 years. and like you if I stopped being have male part tomorrow and had all female parts, I would be over the moon.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

there is no line! That sucks for us...you don't get diagnosed and because you spend your entire life getting bombarded with gender cues that either make no sense to you, or make you want to puke, you come up with very powerful coping mechanisms to help you get through life..

although it's true that having fantasies about sex with men or having large breasts does not make you transsexual, who here thinks women don't fantasize about having wonderful breasts and having sex with strong virile men...
even if you masturbate to these fantasies like many crossdressers do, this does not mean you are NOT trans...who thinks women do not masturbate and think about a big strong man...it just means that you are coping..and given all the testosterone, ya gotta do what ya gotta do..

having a femme body does not make you a candidate for transition anymore than having long flowing hair...it doesnt matter how you look...i am 6'2" ...don't fall into the trap of thinking how you look impacts whether you are transsexual..
you can be 6'5" 300 lbs and hairy as a beast with giant hands and a unibrow, and still be transsexual..there are lots of feminine looking men ...

outside of feeling and thinking that you are female (and this is not the whole story as lots of us cope with this knowledge by denial and lying to ourselves),
the single and only thing that makes you a candidate for transition is wanting it so bad that you are willing to bet everything you ever thought was important, even if you know you are going to lose that bet .....with the prize being our transitions...

Some of us lose so much, and then we find out that we will never be beautiful in a classic sense (we can beautiful in our own minds) and we dont have the slightest clue about how to relate to other women, how to dress, or how to deal with relationships as a woman...if you do transition how you look matters...it can make it much easier or much harder depending on your ability to be accepted easily as female ...

if you know all this, and still want to transition..perhaps you could consider that is the line...
the comment that really resonated with me was "i'd rather be a happy ugly woman than an unhappy depressed guy"...i had a very similar thought which was "i don't want to die regretting that i lived".. and now i won't


there is a way to test the waters..that's the good news..if you can't go out because of real or imagined fear, then that's your first step..you can't even begin to think about transition
if you are crossdressing alot and getting out...a couple hours of electrolysis will set you straight if you are just fantasizing..
if you get through that, start hormones and watch your penis get soft, and start to feel all kinds of very different thoughts....

the other good news is that if you get through transition, unless outside events are too tough to handle, it's almost 100% that you are delighted to be in your new world no matter how difficult it is, and all the crazy dysphoric thinking goes away completely..no more wishing, just life

[kendra_gurl]

AREYAN

WOW I wish only the best for you both. It is very easy for those of us who only want to crossdress when its convient for us to do so to forget just how lucky we are not to have all those other emotions conflicting with every part of our lives. Thanks for sharing your reality with us

[RachelDee]

When I stopped crossdressing because it meant very little, and made me feel more conscious of what I wasn't. That was the line (for me) i'd say. Also when I started to feel so upset and anxious about my gender that it made me physically ill + gave me thoughts of wanting to just give up (on life).

I struggled for a while because I did not feel like I totally fit into crossdresser/transvestitie categories, yet certain things matched -- I felt 'sexy' when I wore female clothes. It was quite an intoxicating feeling really -- but that wasnt the only thing I felt.

I also couldn't provide the recurring story that I kept reading online of transexual people either. I didn't really know from childhood for example, and I dare say it wasn't until I was about 23 really that the penny dropped & I found out that something called 'Gender Dysphoria' existed.

Before that I had only ever heard of crossdressers & drag queens. And also that some people were born with birth defects and may be assigned the wrong gender and it was corrected later in childhood. So I didn't know what to think for a while. Certainly in my teens to 20's such thoughts were met with intense feelings of it being 'sick' or wrong and so I immediatley pushed them out.

Not being accepted & that it would be better to live as an ugly male with no harassment or issues socially than to live as an ugly male in 'drag' (if thats how others always percieved me) and be harassed and maybe even hurt physically was def something that held me back (as well as other things). Its impact on family was another one. If I would feel worse about myself if I transitioned and didnt look how I imagined (I guess everyone has some inner image of how they would like to look ideally).

Yeah im not sure if any of this is much help, but id say that everyone has their own "line". At that point for my just before Christmas last year, that was pretty much "it" and I knew that this wasnt going to go away.

I don't crossdress much at all, because its not really important to me. How I feel about myself and how I look in the mirror is the most important to me - not the clothes I am wearing.

[JohnH]

OMG! I never knew that. I tried it and I can't drop my arms to the sides, they stick out. I have to force myself to do that and even then it is comfortable, and I was in the military for 10 years. and like you if I stopped being have male part tomorrow and had all female parts, I would be over the moon.

In my case it is impossible for me to force my arms to my sides with my palms facing forwards.



having a femme body does not make you a candidate for transition anymore than having long flowing hair...it doesnt matter how you look...i am 6'2" ...don't fall into the trap of thinking how you look impacts whether you are transsexual.

If I did not have transexual leanings I obviously would not be on this forum.
I like my feminine body very much and I would like to enhance it to be more feminine and not try to masculinize it. Most men who have breasts would intensely dislike them and likely seek to get surgery to remove them.

I guess if I go on m2f hormones I might not think of it as transitioning; rather I would see it as enhancing my body.

Johanna

[Kelsy]

Being transsexual for me is a struggle and the dysphoria is constant.
I have tried to change my body because It does not fit who I feel
myself to be and I do find that I am more comfortable when the changes occur.
I've been told I am a good looking man and when I hear
it I'm horrified I feel cursed. I get a sickening feeling if I think that I
can't become who I need to be and depression begins to engulf me.
Crossdressing only served to alleviate the pain for short periods. I developed
coping mechanisms and created a life to reinforce my male persona that
has left me trapped with only the choices of ”who gets hurt.” I wouldn't
wish this on anyone. I have moments of joy and love who I am. Then the
fight continues. I just wish I could shut it off.

[Laurie Ann]

The line in the sand came when I could not live another day not being true to myself. The choice was transition or give up on life.

[Aprilrain]

If you want to die because you got stuck with a male body and, as Kaitlyn Michelle said, you are willing to bet it all on an almost sure loser than welcome to the wonderful wide world of transsexualism.

I battled with the whole CD vs TS thing for about 5 years, most of that time spent trying hard to ignore the question entirely. I also feared that I would never in a million years be able to pass because of my height, weight and facial structure. If there is a part of my body that I absolutely loath it is my size 12 (women's) feet, disgusting! Anyway, once I faced reality it wasn't that hard of a choice to make because it wasn't a choice at all. The choice was wether I was going to continue fighting it or not. Since dressing and going out as a female brought me some relief and not dressing and not going out as a female made me want to kill myself it seemed like a no brainer, however that does not mean everything has been rainbows and butterflies, far from it. Since coming out and starting this process I have battled some of the worse depression of my life. HRT has made a huge difference but doesn't eliminate the very real problems that all of us in transition face. The benefits of hormones are real and tangible though. I'd say It just feels like my brain is no longer fighting its self. My body is finally heading in the right direction too albeit very slowly!

Personally I think there is a lot of Myth out there regarding what "makes" a transsexual. I don't think who or what one fantasizes about has anything to do with ones gender identity, having very little interest in sex doesn't make one female, wanting to be beautiful may set one up for self image disaster but it doesn't mean one is not trans, Not hating ones male parts may only mean that one chooses to get FFS before SRS or simply live as a woman with a penis, the size and shape of ones body means nothing and the ability to place ones arms against ones sides does not a transsexual make!

The biggest determining factor is you, is transition with all of its potential risks something you know you have to do or are you reasonably happy without it! I wasn't reasonable let alone reasonably happy. the insanity from trying to deny myself was getting scary.

[Debglam]

fantasizing about sex with men and wishing occasionally that you have breasts and look amazing as a woman is not transsexualism - it's fantasy. if you feel far too comfortable with your current life to truly give it up for the hardship of becoming the opposite gender then you are not transsexual. as the others here have stated, being trans isn't about becoming some hot, young, nubile-bodied version of yourself. for most of us that time really has passed by the time we come to accept ourselves. for most people who are TS the disparity between our minds and our bodies becomes so damning and difficult to deal with that we simply cannot operate in our natal genders and Stephanie is right - we dun have unrealistic ideas of how we want to look either. it isn't ideal for me but i have to accept i'm a short t-guy. it's reality. it certainly won't stop me from being who i am.

if you are not crying all the time about your male life and desperately trying hard NOT to dress when you leave the house i doubt you are ready for transition. if you have purged many times in your life and lived in denial this doesn't mean you're just a cross dresser either, the lines can be blurred and many CDs are also transgendered, though not candidates for hormones and surgery. from my experience with my MTF partner, the time came for her when she risked losing our income because she couldn't leave the house dressed as a male any longer, even though she was risking torment and possible physical violence to go outdoors in feminine clothing in our area (we lived in bigotville at the time).

i deal with gender dysphoria on a weekly and sometimes daily basis and it's no joke. i have come to suicidal thinking many times and drowned my sorrows in the bottle on many a night to stop myself from doing something horrible to end it all. you don't have to be suicidal about your gender to be trans but if you are it's a good sign you're not just a cross dresser. for me being trans is less about fantasizing about life in my target gender than it is dealing with the horrible reality of my current gender. if i was just a cross dresser this would all be rather fun. and no it isn't, no way. :straightface: i only hope that i will know peace someday when i do get to transition.

Areyan,

Thank you for this very powerful post. It gave me, and I think all of us, some food for thought.

[arbon]

I was not able to identify as a crossdresser really, though I tried for a very short time lol. It just did not work for me. It was to depressing and I could not get excited about it. I kept getting hung up on the still being a man part and I just hated that.

The line I crossed, when I really started to accept what I was and to stop fighting against transition, was when my wife felt she had to hide my hunting rifle but on the day she hid it I knew she hid it because I was looking for it but not to go hunting with. Suicide was no longer an option it had become inevitable in my mind and I was rehearsing it playing it out in my head. I felt really detached from everything.

[Jorja]

As Danni said you will never be the person you dream of being. All you can do is be the person you are.

Does this mean you can't live life the way you want? No. Of course it doesn't. It just means that you will never be 17, skinny, and sexy. Even if you were natal female you wouldn't be 17, skinny, and sexy. Not any more.

Look in that mirror. What you see is what you get. Live with it. It's all you got. You can lose the beard. You can grow your hair out. You can lose weight. You can get breast implants. You can even buy a vagina. Other than that you're pretty much done. You will be that tall woman with the unfortunate body. But did you hear me? You will be that tall WOMAN with the unfortunate body. You can do it if you have anything more than a fantasy dream in your head. But your body is your own. Love it.

You can transition. Many do. But they don't transition into skinny, sexy, 17 year olds. You can live the rest of your life female. Go ahead. All you have to do is do it. Whining about it on a forum like this is, of course, is another alternative. You can do that too.

Stephie

Well said Stephenie S

[Delila]

Thank you all for the thoughtful and informative posts. I spend a lot of my time wondering what it would really be like to fully transition. I has been on my mind since before I reailised that there was an option. Some factors that I consider or really the primary factor is that I am married and I love my wife more than myself or anything and I told her that I did not want to become a woman when I told her about my real self. I hold my statement as a promise at least as true as my marital vows if not more so considering the possible outcome. While I may think and wish that I was female I do not consider myself regularly dysphoric my current physical sex does no cause me severe distress. I feel that I would love to be a woman but I honestly don't have the courage that many of you have I am not brave enough to even go outside fully dressed or even more than underdressed other than halloween. Much of my concern is for my wife who has encouraged me many times to go in public dressed though I don't thing she really knows that that means to me. What it really comes to is that I am not even brave enough to explore public dressing let alone spending my life that way. I honestly did not realise that I was asking such a serious question when I asked it. Thank you all for your thoughtful responses they have given me a lot to think about and even more respect for those of you that are couragious enough to go through what you must go through to be physically women.

[Hope]

I'm not sure there is a line. And if there is a line, it is wherever the heck you want to draw it. It can be a frightening realization to make - and no one will fault you for not making it, but life gets better once you are completely honest with yourself.

If you ask me - the question isn't about body size or shape. I'm 6'2" - I have a bass voice (Or I USED to) big hands and a horrible hair line. But those are just level-up difficulty multipliers. Sure it is easier to transition if you are 5"6 and have a full head of hair, a button nose, a slight build and a size 9 foot. But that doesn't mean I am any less a woman. It just means that i have to work harder to be recognized for who I am. Such is life. Here is the truth - there are no ugly women - there are only lazy women.

The question isn't about boobs or sex either.

I would say, and it is completely my opinion and has no basis in reality other than being my opinion - but if your only desire is to have a rocking set of knockers and get bent over the sofa and rodgered like the prom-queen... you are not trans. If your desires are purely erogenous in nature, if you get a full-on lady chubby from dressing up, if the mere mention of the word "taffeta" makes your pulse quicken, you are probably not trans.

Now, that isn't to say that if you want a rocking set of knockers you aren't trans. I don't know any trans girls who don't want a rocking set of knockers. We usually settle for something that looks convincing in a push-up bra, or worse yet misqueto bites, but we all WANT a set of full, round, 34C-D boobs. Or however else we happen to define rocking knockers. And it isn't to say that if you want to get rodgered like the prom queen that you aren't trans either. No matter how much some folks try to deny it, humans are sexual creatures. EVERY woman (well every woman with a functional sex-drive), trans or otherwise, wants a little prom-queen action. But if your only interest is in having rocking boobs and some hot beef injection... Well then I submit that what you are is a guy with a fetish. Because being trans isn't about the sex. Frankly, once you start taking hormones, the sex gets complicated. And it doesn't seem to ever get uncomplicated. Post-op girls still have complicated issues to navigate in the dating / rodgering world.

FOR ME - when I realized that the sex was peripheral, certainly a component, but not THE component, and not even a major component really (though that can be a difficult issue at first since the only outlet many of us have is furtive and sexual) is when I realized there was something more going on than cross dressing.

Here is a good test: Besides the afore mentioned prom related activities, when else do you want to be a woman? At work? At the grocery store? At the lumber yard? At the bank? At the DMV? At your daughters wedding? On vacation? At home watching TV? In the hospital? At your co-workers baby shower? Because that is what transition is about. That is what being trans is about. LIVING your life, in ALL of its facets as a woman. If that is who you are, or if you think it might be - welcome to the sorority. If you are really just interested in the rocking boobs and the rodgering... well... you are probably not one of us. And there is no shame in that - this isn't a system where you get a better ranking based on how trans you are - or are not. Everyone here is different and needs to find her own path. Besides, your life will be infinitely easier if you are not trans. Of course if you are trans and you stay in the closet, your life may be easier, but you will be more miserable.

Fortunately, you don't have to make an all or nothing decision at any point in time. God knows I never did. I slid into this like an old man getting into a bath. I never decided this was something I had to do, or wanted to do, but there was a time where I simply became aware that this was right for me, and it was after a lot of experimentation and practice. Test it out, go slowly if you want to. Do what feels right to you, add to it. Stop it if it isn't right. Do something else. Try make-up. Carry a purse. Paint your nails. Grow your hair out. Get laser on your beard. Do all the things that are cheep and easily reversible if they aren't right. Pick the low hanging fruit. If this isn't right for you, you will know. If it IS right for you - well... you will know that too.

[Delila]

I'm not sure there is a line. And if there is a line, it is wherever the heck you want to draw it. It can be a frightening realization to make - and no one will fault you for not making it, but life gets better once you are completely honest with yourself.

If you ask me - the question isn't about body size or shape. I'm 6'2" - I have a bass voice (Or I USED to) big hands and a horrible hair line. But those are just level-up difficulty multipliers. Sure it is easier to transition if you are 5"6 and have a full head of hair, a button nose, a slight build and a size 9 foot. But that doesn't mean I am any less a woman. It just means that i have to work harder to be recognized for who I am. Such is life. Here is the truth - there are no ugly women - there are only lazy women.

The question isn't about boobs or sex either.

I would say, and it is completely my opinion and has no basis in reality other than being my opinion - but if your only desire is to have a rocking set of knockers and get bent over the sofa and rodgered like the prom-queen... you are not trans. If your desires are purely erogenous in nature, if you get a full-on lady chubby from dressing up, if the mere mention of the word "taffeta" makes your pulse quicken, you are probably not trans.

Now, that isn't to say that if you want a rocking set of knockers you aren't trans. I don't know any trans girls who don't want a rocking set of knockers. We usually settle for something that looks convincing in a push-up bra, or worse yet misqueto bites, but we all WANT a set of full, round, 34C-D boobs. Or however else we happen to define rocking knockers. And it isn't to say that if you want to get rodgered like the prom queen that you aren't trans either. No matter how much some folks try to deny it, humans are sexual creatures. EVERY woman (well every woman with a functional sex-drive), trans or otherwise, wants a little prom-queen action. But if your only interest is in having rocking boobs and some hot beef injection... Well then I submit that what you are is a guy with a fetish. Because being trans isn't about the sex. Frankly, once you start taking hormones, the sex gets complicated. And it doesn't seem to ever get uncomplicated. Post-op girls still have complicated issues to navigate in the dating / rodgering world.

FOR ME - when I realized that the sex was peripheral, certainly a component, but not THE component, and not even a major component really (though that can be a difficult issue at first since the only outlet many of us have is furtive and sexual) is when I realized there was something more going on than cross dressing.

Here is a good test: Besides the afore mentioned prom related activities, when else do you want to be a woman? At work? At the grocery store? At the lumber yard? At the bank? At the DMV? At your daughters wedding? On vacation? At home watching TV? In the hospital? At your co-workers baby shower? Because that is what transition is about. That is what being trans is about. LIVING your life, in ALL of its facets as a woman. If that is who you are, or if you think it might be - welcome to the sorority. If you are really just interested in the rocking boobs and the rodgering... well... you are probably not one of us. And there is no shame in that - this isn't a system where you get a better ranking based on how trans you are - or are not. Everyone here is different and needs to find her own path. Besides, your life will be infinitely easier if you are not trans. Of course if you are trans and you stay in the closet, your life may be easier, but you will be more miserable.

Fortunately, you don't have to make an all or nothing decision at any point in time. God knows I never did. I slid into this like an old man getting into a bath. I never decided this was something I had to do, or wanted to do, but there was a time where I simply became aware that this was right for me, and it was after a lot of experimentation and practice. Test it out, go slowly if you want to. Do what feels right to you, add to it. Stop it if it isn't right. Do something else. Try make-up. Carry a purse. Paint your nails. Grow your hair out. Get laser on your beard. Do all the things that are cheep and easily reversible if they aren't right. Pick the low hanging fruit. If this isn't right for you, you will know. If it IS right for you - well... you will know that too.


Thanks for your input. Honestly I want to be a woman everywhere grocery store to well I very rarely visit the lumber yard if it can be helped. I have times that I feel ok with being male I don't ALWAYS wish I was a woman just usually. What it really comes to for me is that I could be ready to end my life over my gender situation and I would still hold firm to my promise to my wife that I don't really want to transition whether or not that turns out to be true. In my life my word is my life I suppose that is a true male part of myself coming through.

[Sophora]

Thank you all for the thoughtful and informative posts. I spend a lot of my time wondering what it would really be like to fully transition. I has been on my mind since before I reailised that there was an option. Some factors that I consider or really the primary factor is that I am married and I love my wife more than myself or anything and I told her that I did not want to become a woman when I told her about my real self. I hold my statement as a promise at least as true as my marital vows if not more so considering the possible outcome. While I may think and wish that I was female I do not consider myself regularly dysphoric my current physical sex does no cause me severe distress. I feel that I would love to be a woman but I honestly don't have the courage that many of you have I am not brave enough to even go outside fully dressed or even more than underdressed other than halloween. Much of my concern is for my wife who has encouraged me many times to go in public dressed though I don't thing she really knows that that means to me. What it really comes to is that I am not even brave enough to explore public dressing let alone spending my life that way. I honestly did not realise that I was asking such a serious question when I asked it. Thank you all for your thoughtful responses they have given me a lot to think about and even more respect for those of you that are couragious enough to go through what you must go through to be physically women.

Trust me, I am scared going out in public with female clothes on. I have done it 3 times now and I am still a bit nervous(although I did just got a girlfriend who is going to be able to help me with make-up, clothes, and all of that). Although I am just starting my transition, I am making some great strides on getting to the point where I comfortable. I know this is what I want to do(even tho I am scared of the unknown which in case is how my family are going to take the news). I also the advantage/disadvantage of not having a SO and kids to worry about. My biggest worry is all in my head, and I have been surrounding myself with people that care. I will echo some of the advise that I got. Go see a therapist. They will be able to help.

[Aprilrain]

It is not uncommon, for us who are old enough to have acquired all of the trappings of adulthood like marriage, kids, career, membership at the moose lodge (what? you don't have that yet?), to have made some promises, promises that you cannot or will not keep. Look how many homes are in foreclosure these days, the divorce rate is above 50%! and the vast majority of these people are not transgendered. Anyway my point is don't kill yourself or suffer through a life time of debilitating mental anguish just to honor a promise that YOU made. It doesn't even sound like your wife asked for such a promise. Your wife wants you to pick her up from the airport on time or not forget the milk on the way home from work or take little sally to soccer practice, she doesn't want you to die to honor some promise you made to your self. You would be very unhelpful dead and women just want their husbands to step away from the barcalounger and help! Now if you tell her your really a woman and need to transition she may in fact want you dead at that point in which case your promise seems kinda moot. So either way in the grand scheme of things this is not one of those promises worth dieing for. Anyway you said that you promised that "you don't really want to transition" Well almost no one "WANTS" to transition you'd have to be a fool to want to. So Technically you wouldn't be breaking your promise if you "NEEDED" to transition. I KNEW I shoulda been a lawyer! Good luck figuring things out.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Here is a good test: Besides the afore mentioned prom related activities, when else do you want to be a woman? At work? At the grocery store? At the lumber yard? At the bank? At the DMV? At your daughters wedding? On vacation? At home watching TV? In the hospital? At your co-workers baby shower? Because that is what transition is about. That is what being trans is about. LIVING your life, in ALL of its facets as a woman. If that is who you are, or if you think it might be - welcome to the sorority.


This is a really good constructive thought...especially for people that are in the mode of wondering whether their "urges" mean something other than being a crossdresser..
one "arc" you see all the time is that lots of folks on cd forum start going out, then start going out the mall, then start going to ballgames, then.....etcetc.... lots of those folks are slowly realizing that their dressing is something different than they thought..

[Beth-Lock]

With me, I wasn't conscious of where I was going, but my unconscious was sending messages to me, so that in some pivotal events, I chose TS. One was the sad death of a woman friend. After that, I decided that what friendships I could find with women would not be enough. Maybe that is the line you seek. When you no longer see the solution as having a female partner, but being a female in as many ways as possible in your life, yourself, that is living as a woman.

[Delila]

It is not uncommon, for us who are old enough to have acquired all of the trappings of adulthood like marriage, kids, career, membership at the moose lodge (what? you don't have that yet?), to have made some promises, promises that you cannot or will not keep. Look how many homes are in foreclosure these days, the divorce rate is above 50%! and the vast majority of these people are not transgendered. Anyway my point is don't kill yourself or suffer through a life time of debilitating mental anguish just to honor a promise that YOU made. It doesn't even sound like your wife asked for such a promise. Your wife wants you to pick her up from the airport on time or not forget the milk on the way home from work or take little sally to soccer practice, she doesn't want you to die to honor some promise you made to your self. You would be very unhelpful dead and women just want their husbands to step away from the barcalounger and help! Now if you tell her your really a woman and need to transition she may in fact want you dead at that point in which case your promise seems kinda moot. So either way in the grand scheme of things this is not one of those promises worth dieing for. Anyway you said that you promised that "you don't really want to transition" Well almost no one "WANTS" to transition you'd have to be a fool to want to. So Technically you wouldn't be breaking your promise if you "NEEDED" to transition. I KNEW I shoulda been a lawyer! Good luck figuring things out.

I think that perhaps I said this the wong way. If I EVERcame to the point that I felt I would rather die then be a male I honestly would still push through and live as I am for my wife. I have not reached that point. I really think that I may have answered my own question on this "where is the line" the line is at the point where I would do something that would hurt my wife. I have made many promises in my life some of which I have failed to keep but I love my wife more than anything else that exists in this world and her happiness means more to me than any feeling that I could have for myself. I would not suffer needlessly I would not end my life for a lack of ability to change my gender. I put my wife's feelings first and everything else second and that is my line. Thank you your post made me think in the right way and answer the question that had been bothering me. I realise what I probably sound stupid but I really just speak from the heart.

[Hope]

Thanks for your input. Honestly I want to be a woman everywhere grocery store to well I very rarely visit the lumber yard if it can be helped. I have times that I feel ok with being male I don't ALWAYS wish I was a woman just usually. What it really comes to for me is that I could be ready to end my life over my gender situation and I would still hold firm to my promise to my wife that I don't really want to transition whether or not that turns out to be true. In my life my word is my life I suppose that is a true male part of myself coming through.

Well then, welcome to the sorority. Our colors are pink and anything that sparkles....

Seriously though - figure out what all of this means for you, and then proceed from there.

Here is my advice about the wife, and about keeping the promises:

Don't keep a promise your wife doesn't want you to keep. The first time I shaved my legs, my wife described it as "horrid." She doesn't remember it, but you better believe I do. I didn't shave my legs again for at least 5 years. And when I was first coming to terms with being gender-variant, much less "transsexual" I made the same promise to my wife that every one of us made - "No, sweetie, I don't want to transition, I would never do THAT!!!" It was a stupid thing to say at a point in my life where I didn't know WHAT I wanted. I couldn't possibly make an informed decision about that - because I wasn't informed - all I knew is that I didn't want to loose my wife. It was a promise extracted on the pain of - I don't even know what. And my wife, being the fantastically wonderful person that she is, has never held me to it. I have changed, but she has as well. I have gone from "Sure, I'm happy living as a guy" to "Is there a groupon for SRS?" and my wife has gone from suggesting that my shaved legs were "horrid" to being in full, unflinching, unhesitating support of my full transition. Your wife may well be capable of the same sort of change.

Also:

Don't keep a promise to a person who is not worthy of that promise. My wife doesn't support me the way she does because she is happy that I am trans. If it were up to her, I would be a very happy guy, and we would go about living our idillic lives behind a white picket fence with the guys coming over to play poker in the man-cave on thursday evenings. No doubt about it. Heck - I would rather be "normal" (though I am coming around on that too) I think we all would. But what my wife wants for me more than anything else, is the same thing I want for her - and that is to be happy. And she knows that I would never be happy as a guy, and so she supports me doing what I need to do in order to find joy in this world - just as I do for her. The rub is that if she wanted anything less for me - she would not be worthy of being my partner, and as such, she would not be worthy of those sorts of promises from me.

I am willing to bet your wife is a pretty awesome person too. Give her time, (you have had your whole life to figure this out - you can't expect your wife to be up to speed in a few weeks or months) be open with her about how you feel (it is a very girly thing to do after all) and walk with her on your journey. She will walk with you too. If she would rather see you commit suicide - then she is hardly worthy of your devotion.

If you want to, if you have to, if this is who you really are, you CAN do this.

[Delila]

Your advice is great as seems to be the norm. I often wish that I could be normal and my wife actually calls my office my "Man Cave" I cringe at the term but she enjoys it. I was fully honest with my feelings at first but I am constantly afraid that she will stop loving me if I push anything too far. I really do love my wife more than anything I mean anything in existance. I would never do anything to hurt her which makes everything more difficult of course. She is more supportive than anything that I could have dreamed was possible but I am always concerned that I will push one thing too far one time and break the love and trust that we have built. I don't really have to do anything all things are within my control to some degree to some limit. I could never stop dressing nor would
I honestly even think of it at this point. I can control some things like that I would never even consider changing if it would hurt my wife. I do have to say that while I have thought imagined fantasized and dreamed about going all of the way I am not even bold enough to try a pair of shoes on in public if I fear that someone will be watching such fears I would have to get over and then some before I could ever even consider going full time let alone transition. Another thought that comes on me is that if I showed up at work in women's clothing I would be without a job within a week.

[Rianna Humble]

If I EVERcame to the point that I felt I would rather die then be a male I honestly would still push through and live as I am for my wife. I have not reached that point. I really think that I may have answered my own question on this "where is the line" the line is at the point where I would do something that would hurt my wife. I have made many promises in my life some of which I have failed to keep but I love my wife more than anything else that exists in this world and her happiness means more to me than any feeling that I could have for myself.

Your devotion to your wife is exemplary and I deeply respect you for it.

There are some people who suffer from Gender Dysphoria who manage to live with it for the sake of their loved ones, but for many of us, the desperation is to the point where we have to act one way or another.


I would not suffer needlessly I would not end my life for a lack of ability to change my gender.

I think that you may have answered another question here - whether you are TS. I believe that for the majority of transsexuals who come to the point where they would rather die than continue to live as male the feeling is so intense that they cannot ignore it. I know that this was true for me.


I put my wife's feelings first and everything else second and that is my line. Thank you your post made me think in the right way and answer the question that had been bothering me. I realise what I probably sound stupid but I really just speak from the heart.

You do not sound stupid, you sound honourable.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

there are lots of sayings about the arc of transsexuals that built up male lives and marraiges, but I recommend Hope's

Some of us end up going from saying "Sure, I'm happy living as a guy" to "Is there a groupon for SRS?"

[Kelsy]

You do not sound stupid, you sound honourable.



Honour - now that is a sticky one because honour in its essense and often requires self sacrifice for someone else.
Quite frankly My biggest questions about what I am doing comes down to that. do I have shame not so much,
guilt no not that either but am I honourable it's a tough one!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you are right kelsy that is a dangerous word...honour....

so if you wake up everyday and feel like you are dead to world, climb in the shower...cry when you look at your body, feel like a fake, fantasize and think all the thoughts we all have about being a woman, and then come out and smile a good morning to your wife and kids...go to work, and not be able to think, to cringe every time a guy comes in your office....cringe every time you see a woman and think what it would be like to be her...feel like every breath coming out of your body is a lie... to brag about some conquest to some guy to show off what a man you are.......come home, smile have dinner, go to bed and make love while imagining yourself as a woman...is that honour?

or is it honourable to face a very difficult world and stand up for yourself and say this is me? but then you have to "selfishly" disappoint everyone around you..

i don't know for sure ...in my mind, perhaps honour isn't really a word that applies to what we are doing and what we go through..

sometimes we get trapped in judging ourselves and although there is an argument that every cisgendered person has in their head that we can somehow just stick it out, and "do the right thing"...
many of us know that is impossible...we know what it feels like when your life becomes unbearable and you start to feel like you can't survive..

and some of us will find that out in the coming years....once it leaves, the horse never goes back in the barn for us..

[Jennifer Marie P.]

You cross the line when you feel comfortable about being a woman and the line will be crossed when you make that final decision and start transitiong.

[Aprilrain]

I think that perhaps I said this the wong way. If I EVERcame to the point that I felt I would rather die then be a male I honestly would still push through and live as I am for my wife. I have not reached that point. I really think that I may have answered my own question on this "where is the line" the line is at the point where I would do something that would hurt my wife. I have made many promises in my life some of which I have failed to keep but I love my wife more than anything else that exists in this world and her happiness means more to me than any feeling that I could have for myself. I would not suffer needlessly I would not end my life for a lack of ability to change my gender. I put my wife's feelings first and everything else second and that is my line. Thank you your post made me think in the right way and answer the question that had been bothering me. I realise what I probably sound stupid but I really just speak from the heart.

I am glad that all of our different perspectives could help you answer the question for your self and I wish you and your wife a long and happy marriage. I would like to address one thing in the above quotation. You say If you ever reach the point of wanting to die because of your birth gender you would "push through" for your wife's sake. I can tell you from personal experience that the level of hopelessness and desperation required to stick a shotgun in your mouth Is beyond your ability to "push through" I hope if you do ever reach that point that you will seek therapy rather than "take one for the team". You would not be doing anyone any favors by silently suffering through a life time of hell and I'm pretty sure your wife doesn't want to find you dead from suicide. If you don't know what it is to want to kill your self you are lucky and I hope you never know the feeling. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh I'm really not chastising you I just want you to be aware that by the time you are seriously considering suicide you are not in a place where you can draw from reserves of inner strength and "buck up and be a man" the reserves are long gone at this point. Again good luck and keep talking about all of this regardless of what you decide you NEED to do Talking about your feelings could very well save your life and your marriage.

[Inna]

I am sorry but haven't had time to read through all the postings here, I might be repeating what already was said.

If you are willing to go through gates of hell and sustain pain and overcome, all that because you know you are a Woman that you are. When you throw caution to the wind, and ready you self to dispose of all the lies and secrets you worked so hard to protect, without regret stand naked in front of the world and know in your soul you are the one you always thought you were, but was afraid to share. When tears stream down your cheeks and with every drop shed burden of life unfulfilled, and dream of days to come which shall fulfill your heart with love and mend scarred soul. Then you are ready!

[Kelsy]

sometimes we get trapped in judging ourselves and although there is an argument that every cisgendered person has in their head that we can somehow just stick it out, and "do the right thing"...
many of us know that is impossible...we know what it feels like when your life becomes unbearable and you start to feel like you can't survive..

and some of us will find that out in the coming years....once it leaves, the horse never goes back in the barn for us..

That is the line isn't it - we realize we cannot survive if we don't move to correct the problem. when we begin to come out and
experience the freedom of being our true selves there is no turning back. "You either continue to lie to everybody and yourself," she said, "or you say it once and your life changes." Donna Rose

Thanks Kaitlyn

[AKAMichelle]

The line is very difficult to find sometimes out of our own fear. We spend a lot of our life afraid to go out dressed. Afraid to tell our children or parents. Afraid to our friends or co-workers. So we sit at home wondering what we are. We are all TG to some degree but some of us refuse to finish the exploration to find out about ourselves. In the past several months, I have come to realize that I am TS but don't want the surgery. I go wherever I want and never look back. I don't let my lack of surgery or hormones prevent me from living my life.

I don't worry about the fact that I have big hands, tall, overweight and proportioned incorrectly for a woman. I still enjoy my Michelle time. I spend all of my time at home as Michelle and a good portion of my time out. I still have some things with my family that requires me to be a male, but for the most part I live as a woman. I hate having to go out in male mode. It doesn't feel right and I almost hate doing anything as a male. Let me go out as Michelle and I am ready to go. That for me has been a learning process that tells me this is much more than just a cd'er.

[Melody Moore]

I think Michelle added something very important about finding that line when you are still caught up in so much fear.
And let's face it, you won't transition as long as you have fear holding you back. But as per usual, those harbouring
secrets or repressing their true gender identity are seldom happy people. Like who can say they are genuinely happy
about having to live their life as a lie? I know that repressing my gender issues only made me feel anxious, stressed
& depressed. Athough I wasn't suicidal, the stress was destroying me just like a cancer eating away at my insides.

My immune system collapsed & I started to become seriously physically ill with a number of health complications. I
still swear that if I didn't transition when I did, I would have been dead within 5 years because that is how serious
it was affecting me & my health. I had become reclusive & had no zest for life & was ready to just give up & die.

So I started crossing that line when I finally decided that I wasn't going to continue living an unhappy life that was built
all around one huge big lie & act. I also felt that I was starting to cross that line when I decided to leave my old male
mask behind & embrace the true female I was inside. When I did I instantly felt relieved of the pressure associated with
it, such as 'What will my friends & family think? Will I be accepted & truly respected as a female? But what I found was
that once I started coming out, I found that the greatest majority of my friends accepted me & really appreciated the
fact that I trusted them enough to confide in them about my issues, so I found nothing but acceptance & support. I
still find it hard to put into words how liberating this was to me & this is what really allowed Melody to come out of her
box. Knowing I was no longer living a lie & knowing that all my TRUE FRIENDS still loved me unconditionally this made
me really happy while also knowing my own family was rejecting me, but they always did reject me, so this was nothing
new to me & something I always expected anyway. So my good friends have now completely taken the place of my real
family & I don't miss them one single bit. I know that sounds hard, but I can't say I miss anyone that tried to make my
life a misery.

So in summing this up, I believe there is a line & it takes a lot of hard work & a very long time to get over it. But you will
know usually when have crossed that wide line when you finally accept who you really are & you feel your moods have
gone from being sad & depressed to the complete opposite of being a lot more happier & perhaps a bit more out-going
with a lot more self-confidence. Unfortunately there are those that have completed the whole transitional process, even
had their SRS and still haven't managed to get completely over that line yet & more tragically some never do get over it.

[Delila]

I am glad that all of our different perspectives could help you answer the question for your self and I wish you and your wife a long and happy marriage. I would like to address one thing in the above quotation. You say If you ever reach the point of wanting to die because of your birth gender you would "push through" for your wife's sake. I can tell you from personal experience that the level of hopelessness and desperation required to stick a shotgun in your mouth Is beyond your ability to "push through" I hope if you do ever reach that point that you will seek therapy rather than "take one for the team". You would not be doing anyone any favors by silently suffering through a life time of hell and I'm pretty sure your wife doesn't want to find you dead from suicide. If you don't know what it is to want to kill your self you are lucky and I hope you never know the feeling. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh I'm really not chastising you I just want you to be aware that by the time you are seriously considering suicide you are not in a place where you can draw from reserves of inner strength and "buck up and be a man" the reserves are long gone at this point. Again good luck and keep talking about all of this regardless of what you decide you NEED to do Talking about your feelings could very well save your life and your marriage.

I do understand what you are saying. I have had times in my life that I felt that I could end it and it would be easier I have experienced the effect of suicide first hand when my brother killed himself. I don't mean to offend anyone but I find that act terribly selfish. I do understand to the best of my ability which I completely realise is not fully the draw that some may have to end it all rather than deal with a life full of misery and confusion. I understand but that is not what I am. I can force myself to pretend to be happy and I can find joy in small things. I honestly do not only think about CDing or transitioning. When I am at work the only thing going on usually is work when the day is over things may be different but not desperately so. I fully respect that many transgendered people have miserable lives that come to a point that it would be more comfortable to end it all. I honestly don't think that I will ever get to that point. Thank you for the insightful input I have much to consider and some of it is not comfortable as I really feel it should be. I will ponder much of what I have read here.

[AKAMichelle]

Even though I don't find the need to transition, the feelings and the risk taking I really admire.

[Alicia Ryanne]

I myself would never consider suicide. But...that has no bearing on whether Im a candidate for transition or not as some have asserted. I dont believe suicide is an answer to anything and, I believe I would go straight to HELL if I did kill myself. You see? I believe its one of those things GOD laid down long ago. Kill yourself? Well, then why should I let you into heaven?
So.....no slicing my wrists, no shooting myself, no nothing of that nature. YET, I am fully 100% transexual and WILL succeed in transition regardless of my fears of non acceptance, what I may look like, etc.

Like the OP, I promised my wife Id never transition, that Im just a CD. etc. Well, honestly, she KNEW I was a girl long before I proclaimed that i was more then a CDr. She supports me in everyway possible and always states....I just want you to be happy.
Cuz yoiu see? Most GG women garner happiness from making or allowing their spouse to be happy. And i imagine it goes the same with any MTF. We all just want our spouses to love us without fail. If your wife DOES truly love you, Delilia, then she will NOT turn her back on you even IF you find you need to transition. If she does end up leaving, then she wasnt the soul mate you believe her to be. Ittook me quite some time to come to this realization.

[david]

Where is the line you ask. as i see it i am married to a lovely woman for 45years and she only found out about my inner desireto be FEMALE by accident . However having gone through years of denial i found out that my inner fear of loseing the love that my wife had given me all these years was unfounded as she acccepted that if it was to make me happy then she woud try to help as much as possible. To accept that that you are female by inclination and in mind is hard enough and the thought that others might not accept you for what you are realy is very hard.But what the hell does it matter in the rest of your life as if you are happy then be the woman that you were ment to be and enjoy life for it is short enough. ; davina x

[Beth-Lock]

I find some of the comments about suicides harsh and even cruel. The world is full of people who believe they are too brave to yield to the temptation of giving up. In war these would-be heroes, flee when actually facing an enemy gun when it is pointed right at them one day. I would believe the critics if they had actually faced the sort of situations that lead to suicide. I suspect that they never have.

Take one example. One of the factors is social isolation as the great social scientist Emile Durkheim pointed out. People who attempt suicide often have been deserted by their friends and relatives or fiind they are not reliable, supportive or simply not there for them, in the pinch. One can be not simply selfish but simply by one's self before a suicide. The fact that in our society, people don't want to get involved with others' troubles, is the real source of the selfishness factor in most suicides I suspect. And of course we are all guilty of that to some degree or other.

Aprilrain has a more realistic idea of the situation a potential suicide faces, and expresses it well.

Suicides and attempted suicides are always bad. But let us not simply blame the victim.

It is an unfortunate fact that suicide is a sinister accompanist of gender dysphoria. It is therefore an issue that those facing gender change or the desire for it, should be instructed in as part of their education and/or counselling in transition. Suicide prevention seems to be an art rather than psychological science, and in its infancy but it is worth looking up on the Internet. Any professional doing gender transition work should have an emergency intervention resource ready to call on, in the case of a psychiatric emergency developing, but this is not yet amongst the standards of care. Reform is needed here and pressure should be applied by TS/TG organizations rather than spending all their time talking up "feel good" stories.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

How is it cruel to talk about the number one risk that transsexual people face in this world? who is blaming anyone?

for transsexuals it can have nothing to do with other people...many ts people never ever ever tell a soul, and the isolation and depression in life causes them to act in ways that hurt themselves...this can be suicide or all types of self destructive behaviour...others tell friends and family and are shunned...many end up homeless and in the sex trades..
its far from cruel to talk about it...it's essential..the simple reason for this is that when you are so totally empty and desperate that you are thinking about self hurting , you are in no position to think rationally about the fact that you have options...
in the best case, you need to think about your own inner feelings long before those terrible feelings set in..

transsexuals that are trying to "stick it out" for others often end up sad lonely and alone..

[Kelsy]

transsexuals that are trying to "stick it out" for others often end up sad lonely and alone..


I can relate to that! sadly.

[Beth-Lock]

How is it cruel to talk about the number one risk that transsexual people face in this world? who is blaming anyone?

transsexuals that are trying to "stick it out" for others often end up sad lonely and alone..

I think some of these remarks speak for themselves, so I have merely quoted them.

Unfortunately there is no space to quote the discussion in my book about the way social isolation is related to the TG/TS phenomenon in complex ways. It is a long analysis. It is not as simple as TS/TG people bringing on social isolation themselves, by being themselves in public. And yes social isolation is about other people not having a relationship or a good enough one, with the socially isolated person. It is partly a sin of omission of others, so you can blame people for both sins of omission and sins of commission.

After my fairly long post on suicide, I cannot be criticized for not discussing suicide can I? Maybe whoever is being criticized here can respond to that.

Blame by way of quoting Christian morality is not what I object to, but violating the Christian stricture to be careful about judging others, and especially when not having walked in their shoes, and so on.

Saying that "in the best case, you need to think about your own inner feelings long before those terrible feelings set in.." is interesting, yet the principles of modern systems of suicide prevention are more practical and active than that, and involve planning what you will actually do to seek help when your resistance is too low to be a barrier on your own. Again, Aprilrain is right. Of course you will have to think about your feelings, inner or not, as part of your transition counselling if it is thorough.

[Kelsy]

Can I add this!!?? Transitioning for many Is tantamount to committing social suicide even when the individual's
own quality of life and well-being is in the balance. Once you kick the underpinnings of social support out from
under yourself you become increasingly more vulnerable to the suicide of the more life threatening kind.

Support is key! My therapist emphasizes this frequently!

[Melody Moore]

Kelsy, I personally think that looking at transitioning as 'social suicide' is extremely negative. It has
been quite the opposite for me in how my quality of life has improved very dramatically. My decision
to transition wasn't accepted by my family, but that was to be expected anyway with my family.

Also, you cannot commit suicide if you have no life to lose & that is exactly how my life was before
transitioning. I was existing day-to-day & not living life to the full like I am now. Transitioning has
been a huge benefit to me socially. I have more friends now than I ever had & all people who accept
me for the person I truly am. I am happy & free with true inner peace & am one with myself now &
I believe this also contributes to how other people now seem to 'warm' to me a lot more than before.

But having said that Kelsy I am fairly sure 'I did have to die in order to be reborn'. But you can also go
through that 'pre-transitioning' & then become reborn again as a woman in transition which is what I
believe actually happened to me. I also conquered all my fears, If I didn't I wouldn't have transitioned.
And I don't even fear death itself anymore because I look at it as a necessary component to rebirth.

But the type of 'death' we go through in transition would be better defined as renunciation. In essence
we have to clear out the old to make way for the new. So in other words you can't grow a beautiful garden
while it is full of weeds, so the weeds must be sacrificed in order to plant something more beautiful. Life
is all about give & take & making lots of sacrifices. Often we sacrifice too much of ourselves. Transsexuals
are notorious for doing it. Many of us go out of our way to keep other people happy while being personally
unhappy & not burdening others with problems. The hardest part is not knowing if they will really understand
if we did share our secrets with them.

A lot can be said about transitioning being the test of true friendships & whether or not those you think love
you, or they love you only if you fit their ideals. Even my pyschologist once made the comment, 'The best way
to find out who your real friends are is to transition'. There is a risk of loss in transitioning because of this, but
is it really 'social suicide' if other people find you a better person & befriend you in transition than pre-transition?

[Sophora]

Also, you cannot commit suicide if you have no life to lose & that is exactly how my life was before
transitioning.


I agree with this so much. This is the position I find myself in right now. I have nothing to lose at the moment(except my job and my family and I am not exactly close to my family). So I think the reason I have been able to take the strides I have is because of that. The people that I have told I am closer to(except a friend who hasn't talked to me in awhile). The outpouring of support has been tremendous from those who do know(the one manager that has been treating me bad is now treating me better). I am hoping that I can job soon so I finish transitioning.

[Kelsy]

[QUOTE=Melody Moore;2509695]
I was existing day-to-day & not living life to the full . [/nQUOTE]

Melody, I really appreciate your honesty and I can relate because my life has been closing in on me for some time now I am in a struggle with a dysphoria that is all consuming and I feel my old life dying away.
Quoting Anne Vitale " Transition is Hard...Very hard!"

[Melody Moore]

my life has been closing in on me for some time now I am in a struggle
with a dysphoria that is all consuming and I feel my old life dying away.
When the old male self has completely died, then you can say you have fully crossed the line.
I even made it a bit of a ceremonious occasion when I decided to transition. The day I got all
my ID & gender markers changed on my drivers licence, I went through everything I had to get
rid of anything I had connected to my male past & had a funeral pyre in the backyard to burn
old paperwork, documents etc, to say goodbye forever to that part of my life. I had a few tears
in my eyes, but they were tears of happiness because of how far I had come & how happy I was.

I think this is the point when I felt that I was finally crossing the line & since then I haven't looked back.

[Genivieve]

Thanks for bringing this up! I think I can confirm that I am not a cross dresser now. I'm really glad to hear all of the views above. So much to think about. I wish transitioning was a reality for me. financially and socially it is not an option. Yet every year I become more solid in my Trans identity but my body less pliable more male. I sometimes wish I could have a few subtle procedures...nose lips? So I could go out comfortable without drawing negative attention yet still return to my family and social obligations. As wiser members on this forum have mentioned that's a silly notion and I likely will reach a breaking point...I think I'll ask a question or two separately and not hijack this post.

[Hope]

Thanks for bringing this up! I think I can confirm that I am not a cross dresser now. I'm really glad to hear all of the views above. So much to think about. I wish transitioning was a reality for me. financially and socially it is not an option. Yet every year I become more solid in my Trans identity but my body less pliable more male. I sometimes wish I could have a few subtle procedures...nose lips? So I could go out comfortable without drawing negative attention yet still return to my family and social obligations. As wiser members on this forum have mentioned that's a silly notion and I likely will reach a breaking point...I think I'll ask a question or two separately and not hijack this post.

If you are not ready to transition, then surgery is not the answer for you right now. There is other low hanging fruit that is easier and cheeper to pick.

Don't worry about it - if you are trans, even if transition isn't socially or financially an option for you right now, it will be some day. If you are not trans - you don't need to transition.