going public incrementally

[kimdl93]

My response to another post lead me to think about my progression towards going publically en femme. Over the past year or so, particularly after reading about so many positive experiences from other members of this site, my desire to go out has increase. But I haven't had the courage to go fully en femme. Instead its been an incremental process - wearing light make up, or a mix of womens and male attire.

Most recently, I took it just a bit farther, by going shopping while wearing a padded bra and silicon enhancers (althogether about a B) underneath a knit top and a wool sport jacket, with thigh highs under slacks and sandals with 2 1/2 inch heels, along with some light mascara and lip color. I tried to keep things subtle - giving a hint while not going all out. The B cup size seemed a good compromise...large enough to change the lay of my top and jacket. Thus attired, I browsed through the lingerie and hosiery departments at Dillards, chatted with another customer and bought some hosiery from my favorite SA.

So here's the point I'm getting at. Can one really go public in increments? I suspect not...I mean, the women I talked to and the SA clearly know I'm a CD. I suppose I might just as well have gone in a dress...and this incrementalism is simply a crutch.

[sissystephanie]

It sounds to me as though you were dressed fully enfemme, unless your clothing was a mix of male and female! If it was a mix, then I would ask why? I go out all the time fully dressed enfemme, from the skin out, but wearing no wig and no makeup!! Of course I am very definitely a man in womens clothing, but I don't care at all! I dress to please myself, not anybody else!! And so should you. I don't wear a wig or makeup because I am terrible with both. My late wife used to do both those things for me!

I say forget about the increments and just be yourself!! Be the Nordic Princess you really want to be!!

[Debb]

It could be a crutch, in a good way. Whatever helps you feel less "odd" or "conspicuous" when out in public is a good thing, even if it's only temporary, or you feel like it's a crutch.

Progress is the word.

[kimdl93]

Stephanie, yes you've seen my issue exactly. Since everything I was wearing was women's clothing although kinda nuetral if that's the right word. So I guess I've reached the point where the compounding increments tipped the balance completely.

[Katesback]

A half hearted attempt at anything is just that half hearted.

I am far more inclined to laugh at a flaming gay guy (yes that is what you are more likely to be percieved) than a CD that is making an attempt to appear as a normal woman.

Thats my two cents.

[Jennifer in CO]

Kim,
I dress pretty much as you described every day...just no makeup. My wife hates makeup...so since I transitioned back to male 25 years ago I can count on one...maybe 2 hands the times I've worn makeup since. As far as enhancers, I still have enough of "me" there to fill a 38B with no problem so whats in my bra is all mine. I just chose to wear fem-cut/styles. Slacks, tops, shoes (I own no male shoes...'cept my barn shoes) everything is fem...just not obviously so. If you look, you will notice the buttons on the wrong side of my blouse...or the zip on the wrong side of my slacks (or maybe on the side and none on the front!)...if you look. I'm just more comfortable dressed this way, the clothes are more comfortable and fit me better so if I'm not "scaring" anyone with being blatantly feminine who gives a rip...

Jenn

[diannecourtney]

As far as katesback comment, it must be an Obama's 2 cents worth, not worth na dime. Wish I had the courage to join you althoght i Have a 38C bust.

[kimdl93]

As far as katesback comment, it must be an Obama's 2 cents worth, not worth na dime. Wish I had the courage to join you althoght i Have a 38C bust.

Well, not withstanding Obama remark - I think he's doing a great job considering what he inherited, I appreciate your support. I don't know if this is courage...or just responding to a compelling need.

At the same time, I think Kate and Stephanie are right - I'm kinda standing on that borderline where I'm neither fish nor fowl. Maybe it would be better to take that last step towards presenting fully en femme, rather than clinging to some vestigages of male persona. I think part of it is confidence building in a hospitable environment.

[JenniferR771]

I think you are right, Kim. I was going to suggest a safe excursion or two to build momentum. Perhaps dress as a woman but dress down to blend in. Jeans, wig and a sweater and jacket. Walk around in the parking lot at the mall. When and if you get confident, walk a little closer--retreating to your car as necessary. If you get a streak of boldness walk through a part of the mall. It is really fun(if you ask me) to watch your femme reflection in the store windows. Good luck in any case.

[docrobbysherry]

A half hearted attempt at anything is just that half hearted.

I am far more inclined to laugh at a flaming gay guy (yes that is what you are more likely to be percieved) than a CD that is making an attempt to appear as a normal woman.

Thats my two cents.

I'm with Kate! As for myself, I DON'T see the point in going out in vanilla public areas dressed trying to "blend"! I won't anyway, so why should I dress in some loose, gray, granny outfit I hate, trying?
I'm NOT being "myself". Not dressing as I like. And, stressed as heck while doing this? For me, it's POINTLESS!

But after saying that, I think u should do your own thing, Kim!

[Jamie001]

A half hearted attempt at anything is just that half hearted.

I am far more inclined to laugh at a flaming gay guy (yes that is what you are more likely to be percieved) than a CD that is making an attempt to appear as a normal woman.

Thats my two cents.

This is not a good comment. As a member of this forum, we should all be tolerant toward one-another and NOT EVER laugh or make fun of anyone's expression of their gender identity. There are still some folks in this forum that don't have respect for gender gifted folks that don't go all of the way to present as a woman. The first thing that we need to do is to learn to RESPECT and alternative form of gender expression because we are all at different places on the gender spectrum.

[Butterfly Bill]

That's the way I did it, starting with knit pants progressing thru skorts then skirts and finally dresses, over a period of ten years.

[Helen_Highwater]

I think that it is so difficult to be somewhere that is half way, in no mans land. Male clothing is just that, male clothing; female clothing is just that, female clothing. We will all recognize which is which. Yes there are some items that are non gender specific but a plain white T worn over bra and even small forms will, pardon the pun, stand out.
I'm not saying don't venture out wearing some female items, but if you do be prepared for the fact that some people will notice. If your aim is to go more fully dressed you will have to expect gazes. If you're lucky enough to be able to dress fully, have a feminine shape and achieve convincing make-up, then it's at that point no-one will make a second glance. That's my dream but I suspect it's just that. Still I'll keep trying to take those small steps, courage permitting.

[Elsa Larson]

You're gaining confidence by getting out and not having bad experiences. Many of us recall our early tentative steps into the real world. My advice is to quickly get out completely en femme. If people are going to notice that you're wearing some female apparel/accessory/jewelry/makeup, they might as well see the whole presentation.

[RenneB]

I agree with the incrementally thought only in a slightly different way.

With the help of these girls here, I've moved out of the closet as it was getting a bit stuffy in there anyways and have gained much confidence in getting the right wardrobe. I'm confident in my shopping for fem stuff albeit in guy mode for now. Hey, I'm getting it for the wife, or as I tell the cashier, I think I've got everything on her list.

The next step was stepping out in the daylight. Us vamps don't like the brightness but with a lil' internal fortitude, I made it to the car and out to a deserted parking lot. One quick shot for proof and then back to the closet. The next time it was for a longer journey but then only to an empty subdivision cul-de-sac.... This will eventually lead to human contact.... maybe. That's my incremental life for now.... The future is unfolding very nicely though. Baby steps though. It's not like when I was in my 20s and a tighter bod.

It's still a journey.

Renne.....

[ReineD]

Can one really go public in increments? I suspect not...I mean, the women I talked to and the SA clearly know I'm a CD. I suppose I might just as well have gone in a dress...and this incrementalism is simply a crutch.

I agree with you.

If you present male and you're wearing a bra and makeup, I should think that people will be confused and wonder what to make of you? Unless you are young, lithe, and hip and can get away with a true, cutting-edge androgynous look, I really do think that most people look askance at ambiguous gender, especially outside of safe gender variant circles.

Why not go all the way? This way people will know how to address you! :)

The few people who disapprove will do so with any feminine expression, whether it is a little or a lot. So go out, be yourself, and enjoy!

[minna_xxxx]

One approach to "incremental approach" is mental exercise. Put on neutral unisex clothes and go out to a public place and IMAGINE that you are wearing girly clothes. Maybe add some feminine movement to your walk. If you can picture yourself walking in the mall in pumps and skirt, you will start to feel people staring at you. I noticed that this was very powerful exercise for me. Of cource the passer by was not staring at my skirt because I did not have one. But this feeling of people staring at us is certainly one that everybody encounters during the first trips to outside world. This mental exercise enables to experience the feeling beforehand, help to realize that the fear is (at least partly) imaginary and gives a possibility explore strategies how to cope with the unpleasant feeling. So when you go out in public with real girl clothes on, you are more confident with the situation.

[AnnaCalliope]

I agree with you.

If you present male and you're wearing a bra and makeup, I should think that people will be confused and wonder what to make of you? Unless you are young, lithe, and hip and can get away with a true, cutting-edge androgynous look, I really do think that most people look askance at ambiguous gender, especially outside of safe gender variant circles.


That's actually the look I go for most days. I threw out (well, donated to Goodwill) all my male clothes earlier this year, and started wearing femme clothing full-time. Most of it is fairly gender neutral. I'll wear a lightly padded bra underneath a tight t-shirt or top, slacks or flared bottom jeans, padded panty girdle, flat shoes and light make-up. I'll take the padding out my bra when at work, so not to cause too much of a fuss. This is really just a temporary measure until I move out to Oregon at the end of June, so I can go full time and start HRT. While there are some very open-minded parts of Atlanta, the area where I live and work is not one of them, so I can't go all out and still feel safe.

[kimdl93]

Well, I'm certainly no longer young, lithe nor hip, so I imagine I've confused a few folks with my appearance. Its all really kinda silly, I suppoes...I dress fully with my wife and I've spent time dressed around our neighbor lady, so maybe I should just get over my apprehension!

[ReineD]

That's actually the look I go for most days. I threw out (well, donated to Goodwill) all my male clothes earlier this year, and started wearing femme clothing full-time. Most of it is fairly gender neutral. I'll wear a lightly padded bra underneath a tight t-shirt or top, slacks or flared bottom jeans, padded panty girdle, flat shoes and light make-up. I'll take the padding out my bra when at work, so not to cause too much of a fuss. This is really just a temporary measure until I move out to Oregon at the end of June, so I can go full time and start HRT. While there are some very open-minded parts of Atlanta, the area where I live and work is not one of them, so I can't go all out and still feel safe.

Hmm. When I responded to the OP it never occurred to me to think about transitioning or pre-transitioning TSs, who often don't do the "all out" transformation with appearance (fake breasts, fake nails, fake hair, fake hips) as the CDers do, since for the TSs it is more a matter of presenting who they feel they are inside.

I think there is a big difference between the two.

Honestly, I think it is a matter of confidence. If a TS chooses to abandon traditional male clothing before her body has fully changed (say she is just about to begin HRT), she still knows she is a woman inside and it is simply a matter of time until the breasts grow. She likely is already growing her hair and nails, and is also working on permanent facial hair removal and her voice. So if people look at her with questions in their eyes before her physical appearance is fully transformed, she knows there is an end in sight. And, knowing she is a woman rather than wanting to present as the woman she is not (like a CDer), it makes a huge difference in her attitude. She will also be working on inuring herself against the people who don't understand her, since has no other choice, really. And again, it is only a question of time until the changes are permanent.

Kim, if you are a transitioning TS, then please disregard my previous answer. :sad:

[kimdl93]

Hmm. When I responded to the OP it never occurred to me to think about transitioning or pre-transitioning TSs, who often don't do the "all out" transformation with appearance (fake breasts, fake nails, fake hair, fake hips) as the CDers do, since for the TSs it is more a matter of presenting who they feel they are inside.

I think there is a big difference between the two. Kim, if you are a transitioning TS, then please disregard my previous answer. :sad:

Reine, I wouldn't categorize myself as a transitioning TS. Like I've often said, I don't exactly know where I am in the spectrum. While I probably won't ever fully transition, I spend most of every day dressed at home and with my wife's support, I hope to be able to begin venturing out in public.

That rasies a corollary issue. My wife has been comfortable with me presenting those mixed messages (makeup and attire) in public, but we haven't really considred seriously about going out together with me fully en femme. Although she's encouraging and supportive, she'd be the first to say that my presentation isn't quite there yet.

[cardigansissy]

I think incrementally works well for me. It lets me be closer to myself in more real life situations. What used to seem to me as obviously girly I now do without thinking. And when I do it without thinking, most people either don't notice or don't care. So I try something a bit more feminine the next time, etc. I don't want to either pass as a woman nor shock people to shock people. I just like feeling pretty.

[mrortho]

Yes, you can, first time ever for me was with a support group of crossdressers (strength in numbers).
Second time by myself, I chose early AM in a quiet non-busy store, you have to take it slow to get comfortable.


It's not always 'all or nothing', there CAN be varying degrees of going out in public. Like learning to walk or swim.

[linda allen]

A half hearted attempt at anything is just that half hearted.

I am far more inclined to laugh at a flaming gay guy (yes that is what you are more likely to be percieved) than a CD that is making an attempt to appear as a normal woman.

Thats my two cents.

I agree with you on that. There's no "in between" gender. Look and act like one or the other unless you just want to disturb people.

[Shelly Preston]

I would say getting out is best done fully enfemme but this can still have increments
I am sure your wife could give you advice as to what works best for you outfit wise depending on where you are going.

Now we can consider the increments it maybe a short walk in the park or somewhere you feel safe
Then you can increase the the lenght of time you go out and change where you go
If you could try to get to the SCC.
Its great to meet other ladies and share experiences and have a lot of fun too
Eventually you will be out shopping etc before you even realise it

[KARI AN]

Kim, go for it, I wear my bras out 36B no one ever questions me and it looks normal for my age. I usually put a light top on in the winter I wear a sweater but now its summer has arrived I have my tank top and a shirt if needed. It doesnt stop me to go shopping or mow the lawn it just looks and feels right.
Kari An

[Beth-Lock]

Going at it Incrementally Worked for Me
I know all about wearing male clothes that look much the same as female, and then female clothes that look much the same as male, stealth makeup that looks pretty natural and so on, and pushing the envelope at each stage.

It took quite a while, but I eventually progressed to full time in skirts and dresses, and recently celebrated completion of my 2 year RLE. I no longer want to dress as a man, and don't and try and avoid wearing any item of male clothing, even very minor and unisex items. I have also had a legal name change to a female name, (though it was not so when I started to contribute here, Beth is now a legal name not just my name on this site -- but not Lock). Now I am trying to get my hormones rebalanced towards the female side.

I think I did not at first want to admit to myself that I wanted to change gender and later ultimately would be willing to change gender permanently. Doing it incrementally helped get me past those barriers. Taking each step was driven by instinct and intuition, and eventually it all seemed natural.

Of course other people may arrive at a different destination, and stopping at being a CD is not to be despised. I think that part of being respected, and respecting yourself, is to learn to do a really good job at turning yourself out as a woman, if that pleases you or as unisex, or whatever you are comfortable at.

Looking back, the times when I was noticed was when I was badly or unconventionally dressed including being simply out of fashion, and that may not always have been a quesion of not passing, as a GG dressed so badly might also be looked at askance, buy other GG's. Wearing too much pink seemd to be a recurring way of attracting unfavourable notice.

[Nikki A.]

I feel less comfortable dressed part male and female than if I'm dressed fully female. Now I don't dress flamboyantly (minis, heels to Walmart) but I dress tastefully for church and then if I need to stop for anything I go in as I'm dressed.
Am I read?, yes by some, but I'm always treated well, I'll chat with the cashiers at KMart, the salesgirls at Payless, Catherines, Dress Barn and Fashion Bug (and they give their opinions on what I try on). So far no incidents.
Again I started out stealth dressing to build up my courage. But there is nothing like putting on what you want to wear and not giving a damn.

[NicoleScott]

I don't underdress or partially dress, or mix male and female clothes. I dress completely or not.
My way of going out "incrementally" was to appear in public in steps, progressing as I built confidence. First, driving at night. Then walking at night, then window shopping, then going into places (like wig shops or tg-friendly clubs) where I wouldn't be totally unexpected. I haven't gone "mainstream" en femme or in daylight very much, still not beiing totally confident there.

[Fab Karen]

That way you're actually going to stand out MORE Than if fully femme-looking.

[Beth-Lock]

That way you're actually going to stand out MORE Than if fully femme-looking.

Actually, I think you stand out mainly if you look bizarre. If you mix male and female clothes, you might well look instead like a tall girl who mixes male and female clothes, because the male clothes, sized for a larger person, fit better on her. i don't think that this stands as a generalization. In my case I dressed in male clothes that looked like female clothes at one period in my life, and in female clothes that looked unisex as much as possible in another period of my life, separated by five or more years time.