Wife won't let me shave my chest...Help!

[RobinCA]

Hello everyone, it's Robin here. I have been crossdressing for my wife off and on for 8 years. I have shaven my legs and she loves it. The problem is, That I want to shave my chest and stomach and my wife is against it. I had done it once in the past and she freaked out. She loves my chest hair but I just dont feel sexy and feminine in my womens lingerie with hair sprouting out all over. I love the fact that she is so supportive and accepting of my desires, I just need some help on how to convince her that I really would like to shave the chest to feel like the woman inside. Any comments would be helpful, thank you.

Robin.

[JamieTG]

Most women I know love a hairy chest. She is attracted to the masculinity of it. She still wants part of you to look like a man. A marriage requires compromise and if she lets you keep your legs shaved, I would be thankful of that. She may never change her mind about the chest hair and if you shave it anyway against her objections, you can expect trouble.

[RADER]

Yes; My wife loves my chest hair, and I have a bumper crop of it. She saids she loves to run
her fingers through it, and she does often while we are in bed. She is OK with my dressing,
as long as I do not touch HER CHEST HAIR.
I go with the flow as it where; a small price to pay for the approval from your wife to dress the
way you want to, even a nightie to bed.
Rader

[BillieJoEllen]

On this I'd have to agree with Rader. Since you are very fortunate to have a supportive spouse go with the compromise.

[DanielleLee]

Agree with the others here. You have a supportive wife. Don't go screwing it up, by going outside the boundaries. Even if you and your spouse do not have any "official" boundaries... it sounds like this may be one of your wifes.

If you still feel that strongly however... you may ask if she would comprimise and allow you to trim the chest hair down. Weedwhacking as I call it...

If you are married, then I'm sure you already know... Is about respect of and comprimise with, our wives and their opinions.

DL

[Emily Ann Brown]

Come on girls.......it comes down to how much do you love your wife. Chest hair is a small price to paid for a happy and supportive wife. Those of us who lost wives because of who we are think your head is up your @*&%*#!

Em

[Debra Russell]

I initially trimmed my chest hair to keep it from tickling my chin in bed at night -- my wife understood "trim" -- she also liked to run her fingers through it, then I got a lower cut blouse I wanted to wear and shaved it -- she didn't like it and so stated but no deal breaker although now she very seldom ever touches my chest anymore. I will probably let it grow seasonally!!

[Cheryl T]

I'm lucky. My spouse is very supportive and doesn't mind that I am shaved COMPLETELY. She may miss the hair...but she doesn't say anything, except that she misses my mustache. I don't miss any of the hair and never did like it. I can't imagine going back to being hairy again....yuck!

[DonnaT]

I agree with the others. If she doesn't want you to shave because she likes the chest hair, then let it be. It's the same way with my wife and me.

[darla_g]

now that i've gotten a bit older my chest sprouts all these whitish hairs I hate it! i get rid of them for an entirely differerernt reason!

Back in the day i would come to some sort of compromise. I would usually take the summer off from CDing and let my leg hair and chest hair grow. Rest of the time it was my choice. Don't like pubic hair much either.

[RenneB]

I don't have much to add to this one, 'cept that you could always stand too close to the camp fire one night and..... Okay, bad idea, but that's how I've explained my lack of leg hair.... Never had chest hair, but I would give my left .... for a supportive SO.

Renne....

[Anne2345]

Hi Robin! I agree with the majority of the responses. Any CDer who has an accepting spouse should consider herself fortunate. There are plenty of stories on this forum by members who are less fortunate that do not have accepting SOs. And marriage, obviously, is a partnership. Regardless of any given issue, there is give and take, and compromise. Push too far and it will breed resentment or rejection. My advice is to follow her wishes, and enjoy the fortune you have. That is not to say that one day she may not let you shave your chest. Through my own experience with my wife, the more comfortable she has become with my CDing over the years, the more I have been able to do. The important thing is that I was patient and understanding of her needs and feelings. As a result, for lack of a better word, I have been "rewarded" for such patience and understanding through her eventual acceptance of things I want to do, such as shaving. In your case, she may not ever be comfortable with this particular desire of yours, but maybe she will. Just hang in there, do not be unreasonable, and see what happens. Either way, you have a great thing going with your wife, and enjoy your relationship for what it is - an accepting and loving partnership! :)

[StarrOfDelite]

I would suggest that if you love her then you shouldn't press the issue. Based on what I've read on this forum and others, women who accept crossdressing are rarer than hen's teeth. I agree with your aesthetic sensibility, but successful marriages are based upon compromise.

[RobinCA]

Thank you all for answering the call as it were. I appreciate your thoughts and comments. I am very lucky to have a supporting wife and cherish her for it. I would never push it as you all say, I respect her opinion. I guess what I was really asking about was how to explain the underlying feelings and desires to her. If it's a deal breaker I wouldn't dream of doing it, was just hopeful to get some insight on how to possibly sway her opinion. I love and respect her and if she won't budge, no problem. Hoping she will though :)

[Sara Jessica]

I have been crossdressing for my wife off and on for 8 years.

For your wife??? That's a new one!!!

[darla_g]

you could always parade in front of her in a bra with your hairy chest and say "see this looks terrible!" . she may have to agree with you and finally relent.

[Shadeauxmarie]

I think we push our wives too much sometimes. You have to accept the agreed upon boundaries. I, for one, would love to be able to keep my legs smooth, much less my chest, back and arms.

Respect the one you love my respecting her boundaries.

[vetobob9]

If your chest is extremely hairy, and you aren't shaving it, that unhygienic and unsanitary.
But if you only have a little bit of hair (I have none), then it shouldn't be an issue.
On the other hand,

It's your body to do with as you please. That's what they tell us when they decide to have an abortion or to sleep with their coworkers or the guy down the street.
My point is that if women have the right to do whatever they want to their bodies, then men have the same right.

If you can't shave your chest, then why should she be allowed to shave her legs or her armpits? Control over one' own body applies equally to both men and women.

[Xandria]

my ex hated the stubble on my chest so she would never snuggle with me after a few days of shaving.. i rarely ever shave my chest..

[DanielleLee]

If your chest is extremely hairy, and you aren't shaving it, that unhygienic and unsanitary.
But if you only have a little bit of hair (I have none), then it shouldn't be an issue.
On the other hand,

It's your body to do with as you please. That's what they tell us when they decide to have an abortion or to sleep with their coworkers or the guy down the street.
My point is that if women have the right to do whatever they want to their bodies, then men have the same right.

If you can't shave your chest, then why should she be allowed to shave her legs or her armpits? Control over one' own body applies equally to both men and women.

LOL... comparing abortion with improving your feminine appearance....

I was waiting for the "it's your body" demographic to rise up... Okay, I get what you are saying and would agree that in most normal situations, you are absolutely correct... however for those of us men, who are married crossdressers... it's not quite that simple. Our wives married men and those wives most often expect us, to continue to be the men they married.

If that picture of male-dom includes us with body hair, then so be it. That's a boundary husbands need to be respect. For most crossdressers... they're not shaving their chest because it's what they want, but rather because they want to appear more feminine.

Unhygenic and unsanitary... body wash seems to keep my hair clean just fine....

DL

[2SpeedTranny]

Yet I wonder how many of you will tell your wife to lose weight, because she's not exactly the lithe woman you married!

It seems selfish to me for a spouse to require something of their partner that makes them unhappy.

And lastly... for all the talk of holy matrimony and compromise... if your marriage hangs on whether or not you have chest hair, you ain't got one, reckon. I don't believe anyone is suggesting that extreme, but it sounds like it sometimes.

[ClaireClark]

I agree with 2SpeedTranny- your "wife won't let you"? I assume she took the same marriage vows as you - all that stuff about for better or for worse? Cyclists and swimmers shave, and they or better ("stronger, more real") men then we will ever be, or want to be. If she loves you, what difference will a hairy chest make?

Claire

[Stacy L]

Well, you could compromise and only shave 1/2 of your chest. :sad:




:D

[chelle]

Lucky that I never had much chest hair and keeping it shaved is not very noticable. My wife does not mind. I heard several of the female teachers at school talking about hair on men and not one of them said they liked it. Most said they usually look the other way because they didn't like the chest hair or on back or showing above the shirt in any way.
Chelle

[satin n lace]

I'v been shaving my chest for about 15years way before i even met my wife i just can't stand hair on my chest and stomach.I do it because it just looks better and feels better.My wife hates it if i dont shave for about a week or two and now that she knows i shave a lot more offen now since i walk around the house wearing lingerie, like every night.

[ReineD]

The question of whether your wife will "let" you shave your chest hair, or if she is "asking" you to keep it because it helps her feel that you are still her man is debatable.

Often when people describe issues in a hurry, they don't pay too much attention to the precise meaning of the words they use, and also they do post from their own point of view and not their partners. This is why any discussion on "letting" vs. "asking" from other members here is counter productive. It also doesn't address the issue you would like resolved. And, as much as we like to believe that we should all have full control over our own bodies, the question of male feminization is NOT the same as whether either partner should choose to get a haircut or put on weight, since the haircuts and the weight are every day, garden variety options. Male feminization is not and it behooves both partners who are in a relationship together, to discuss this.

At any rate, the importance is that you are both talking about it, I assume in a spirit to come to a meeting of the minds.

I can tell you how my SO approached this. First, she didn't ask, she just did it, and I assumed that she didn't consider that I would have an opinion either way. This hurt a little but I didn't say anything since it was water under the bridge and I got over it. Second, she goes out frequently in the mainstream and in the summer time the tops show more of her upper chest and back than do men's clothing. So as with the legs, in our case it did make sense that she would want to shave in order to not attract undue attention to herself while going out. She then told me, and it makes sense, that it is much easier to keep it up throughout the year since it is quite time consuming to have to shave an area that hasn't been shaved in quite some months. My SO also has a lot of body hair. So .. the shaving is not an issue for me even though I also enjoy male chest hair. I also consider her need to present femme convincingly of prime importance.

My SO doesn't tend to focus the crossdressing on bedroom lingerie though, even though once in a while she'll wear lingerie. But, if her focus was on this and she wanted to shave her body because she felt the body hair looks unsightly (as opposed to the more utilitarian reason of shaving it in order to present in public more convincingly), I'd wonder if she was developing a degree of Gender Identity Disorder (GID), and if this might be an indication of a future pathway to wanting to alter her body in other ways or eventually live as a woman full time. Not saying that having GID is bad, just that it needs to be considered.

This could be your wife's larger concern and if it is, I don't know what to suggest. If she begins to believe that you feel as a woman internally and this is something that is always present as opposed to a desire to present as a woman occasionally, the two of you have more to talk about than whether you shave your chest or not. There is a possibility your wife will be turned off in the bedroom if she is not keen on having a relationship with another woman? I don't know this, you should ask her.

I don't know your wife or her motives and I can't be of more help with regards to your decision to shave or not to shave, but hopefully I've given you something to consider.

[NicoleScott]

I can tell you how my SO approached this. First, she didn't ask, she just did it, and I assumed that she didn't consider that I would have an opinion either way.

There's the answer. It's easier to get forgiveness than permission. Not that you should need permission.

[ReineD]

Nicole, you didn't quote my next two words (plus the real context of my message), so I'll add them here:



This hurt

And this is important too:



And, as much as we like to believe that we should all have full control over our own bodies, the question of male feminization is NOT the same as whether either partner should choose to get a haircut or put on weight, since the haircuts and the weight are every day, garden variety options. Male feminization is not and it behooves both partners who are in a relationship together, to discuss this.

[prettytoes]

That is one thing that I won't do out of respect for my wife. Every night, while laying in bed, she reaches over and caresses my chest. I know she likes running her hands across my hairy chest, and I really enjoy when she does that. She has been awesome with my dressing; this is one thing I want to keep masculine for her sake. I shave my armpits when fall arrives, and this year I will surely shave my legs, but my chest hair stays. She has not been demanding about anything, and if I really wanted to, she would not stop me, but I know she would prefer that I wouldn't...so I won't.

[CareBearGG]

I would say, if this is something YOU really want for yourself, then you should approach your wife and maybe ask her WHY she feels this way. Sometimes its not so much the WHAT, its whats behind it. Women tend to be sensitive (and I so put myself in this catagory, probably overly sensitive...my poor husband..:battingeyelashes:...) and maybe she's associating the chest hair with something else. However, I would NOT advise you to shave it without talking to your wife. Knowing that this isn't something she wants, or isn't comfortable with just yet, would deftinitely be hurtful to her if you did it anyways. Good luck!

[RebeccaJ]

My opinion is absolutely do NOT do it without your wifes tacit agreement. I agree with others that you should talk to her to better understand why she objects.

I am actually shocked that folks on here are advising you to go against something your wife has asked you to specifically not do because its your body or other archaic rationalization. Marriage is a compromise and requires mutual respect. She is accepting which is significant, don't ruin it by violating her trust.

[Danni Renee]

I asked my girlfriend if she was okay with me shaving my chest. Although she was hesitant, she agreed. Now she loves the look of my shaved chest. So there is hope you can get where you want even if she does not support it now. I recommend just keep working with her. Maybe rent some movies (I recommend "300") that display guys with no hair on their chest. That might help her take that first step of at least seeing what it looks like. Maybe you should also ask her to help you shave as then it is a "couples" activity instead of something you are doing on your own.

[busker]

Thank you all for answering the call as it were. I appreciate your thoughts and comments. I am very lucky to have a supporting wife and cherish her for it. I would never push it as you all say, I respect her opinion. I guess what I was really asking about was how to explain the underlying feelings and desires to her. If it's a deal breaker I wouldn't dream of doing it, was just hopeful to get some insight on how to possibly sway her opinion. I love and respect her and if she won't budge, no problem. Hoping she will though :)

you might still phrase it the same way that you would like to feel fem completely and ask if you can do it for the entire month of your birthday--she might even toss in some lingerie as a gift. It's pretty hard resisting someone's birthday present request and that might start the ball rolling. Peope like hair who don't have to deal with it every day--for us hairy folks, it can be a real chore. good luck

[Sophie Lynne]

I concur with my sisters. A little hair is a small price to pay for an understanding spouse

[Susy GG]

I got a "body hair compromise " with my hubby. Do not know if it works for you and your wife. Just want to let you know.
He is allowed to do laser to get rid of some of the hairs. You do not get all at one session. So there are some left, but there not so much like before. And I have the first call to say stop thats enough no more laser session anymore.

[Samantha_Smile]

Just thought I'd post that my fiance LOVES my chest and abdomen to be shaved, but freaks out if I shave my legs.
Theres compromise to be had!

[erickka]

My wifey is the same way. She loves my chest hair, but when it gets overgrown, she trims it for me. She says she wants a man, not a babboon! lol.

[tiffanyjo89]

I just wonder how many of the women who are married if they weren't married to the person, and had no idea if they had a hairy chest / shaved chest or hairy legs / shaved legs if they'd care either way as to if they wanted to marry them on that point alone.

It goes back to the "clothes don't make a person, what's between their ears makes them." Sure, what you're wearing is about function and comfort (wear long pants in the woods to avoid getting poison ivy/oak on them, avoiding some really bad discomfort later / wear shorts if you want in the summer because they are cooler, but some people don't feel comfortable in shorts. I am one).

Sure, having a hairy chest is seen as "manly," but is that because it is manly? Or is it because it's what's been told to us is manly. Most women don't have any complaints about a clean shaven face, in fact, many prefer it. It's actually the least manly thing to do since it's the only thing that most people will see. Having facial hair is "manly."

I think that most women would be okay with a shaved chest if the man was shaving before she was married to him. It's almost like she's saying "I married this...but you've turned into THIS." To counter ReineD's post, if you are shaving your chest, it's not a permanent feminization. In fact, there are some manly muscular men who have clean shaven bodies.

To the OP, if it was me, I'd ask my wife if I could shave it for a month, and she could see if she liked the clean vs hairy looks and feels. The hair will grow back, and if she "allowed" it, make sure it's the only change you make at that moment.

[ReineD]

I think that most women would be okay with a shaved chest if the man was shaving before she was married to him. It's almost like she's saying "I married this...but you've turned into THIS." To counter ReineD's post, if you are shaving your chest, it's not a permanent feminization. In fact, there are some manly muscular men who have clean shaven bodies.

I didn't express myself well at all. Sorry. :p

It's not the act of shaving chest or leg hair in itself that is the issue. After all, many men shave for other reasons, such as cycling or body building for example. It can easily be a personal preference that has nothing to do with gender identity.

But, the issues come in when the motive for shaving is to be more feminine. This is what causes some wives to want to put the brakes on, since they just don't know how far it will go, plus something like this makes them question their husband's gender identity. I know it is not a permanent feminization, but I guess you could say that many wives see it as a red flag. If their husbands shave for the other reasons I mention above, then the red flag would not be there since there is no question of ambiguous gender identity if a husband is not a crossdresser.

I meant earlier that it is not so much about the shaving, but the motives behind it, and this is what Degofab needs to be discussing with wife.

[NicoleScott]

Reine, it was not my intention to distort your post by quoting only part of it. You gave some reasons why the chest shaving made sense. So the beef was about not asking for permission, I guess.

I shave my arms, legs, and chest, but only seasonally since I am closeted. I shave not to be more feminine, but to appear more feminine when I dress. My wife doesn't see it as a red flag, as a sign of desiring further feminization, because she knows why I dress and where it's headed. There's no slippery slope here. But I agree with you that some wives see it as a red flag because they don't know the motive or where the feminization will end. I think this a separate issue from asking permission to shave.

My wife and I have an understanding about my crossdressing. As much as I do, she wants it to remain in the closet. If I wanted to do something (for example, surgery to make my facial features more feminine) that crosses the line of our understanding, I agree it should be discussed. But not shaving the chest. Just my opinion.

[kristinacd55]

I just shave above my breasts and trim a bit below.....that way I don't have hair sprouting all over up top and the hair below is also not like a jungle!

[Jayne]

If she won't let you shave it epilate :)

[RobinCA]

Again thank you all for your opinion and taking the time to voice them. I have spoken with my wife and she loves my chest hair, loves to run her fingers through it. I also have a pretty badass moustache that she also loves. My desire is to look more feminine and feel more feminine as well. I don't think she is afraid I will become too feminine as she understands it is a deep down set of feelings and desires that allow me to dress. After speaking with her more about it last night I opened her eyes a bit. You see, for her when I dress up it is a turn on, she gets really excited to see me like that. I explained to her that for me it is more than just sexual. I do it to feel feminine and beautiful. Now knowing that it is more than just dressing up for her, as she liked to believe. She knows I do it not only for her stimulation but for my desires I've had since I was young. I will respect her wishes to keep the chest hair as it is a compromise for both of us. Thank you all again for your support, and before trying to psychoanalyze my intentios, just ask me how I feel.

Thanks,

Robin.

[ReineD]

Sorry Robin ... about the psychoanalysis, I mean.

Forums in general are filled with people who dearly love to give their opinions (myself included :p) and sometimes I swear people lose sight of the fact that it is a real person who started the thread. In many instances an opening post is the springboard for a philosophical discussion on the pros and cons of whatever issue is presented, and an opportunity for people to share how the issue has played out in their own lives.

I'd say this is true of most discussion forums, so please try to not take it too personally. It's the nature of the beast, I'm afraid. :)

BTW, welcome to cd.com! :hugs:

[Debglam]

Well, it looks like this matter is settled but I'll throw in my :2c: anyway.

First, thanks Reine and the other GG's for you insight as to why shaving can be such an issue. I've shaved my legs for sports for awhile, so I took it upon myself to shave my armpits assuming it was no big deal, right? Wrong? My wife has been terrific since I came out but this was something that really upset her and I just couldn't figure it out. It's not the shaving it is what it (possibly) represents. Basically, another step away from masculinity. When your SO is insecure about what all this means it is logical to see how "surprises" like this can have an upsetting effect. Lesson learned - talk about it beforehand.

My wife also really likes my chest hair and hates the stubble from shaving. Personally, I have always hated shaving, gender issues aside, and would go clean if I could. The chest hair was a big deal for her. Compromise is the best way to go. We talked about it and I trimmed down to my “décolletage” and leave the rest unshaven. I keep on top of the part that I DO shave. Frankly, cuddling with my honey means more to me than fighting over shaving. :battingeyelashes:

Debby

[tinachristina]

How come everyone is misunderstanding some one ? I dont understand that ;)

I am also not "allowed" to shave any of the hair but the face. Since my wifey enjoys being with me when I am "me" I think I do not want to insist of shaving chest, arms , legs. It is true that it reduces my full experience but what's an impact against all the love that she provides. Whenever I have talked to her she agrees but is also sad. I am in so much love with her that I can't see her sad. Not removing my hair is a small price to pay for all the fun we have together.

Just my 2 cents ( or 50 paise ) or whatever ;))

[ReineD]

Frankly, cuddling with my honey means more to me than fighting over shaving.


I am in so much love with her that I can't see her sad. Not removing my hair is a small price to pay for all the fun we have together.

Awww! To the two of you and everyone else who accommodates their SO's wishes when they have a hard time with it, I just want to say, :bh:


Disclaimer: there are CDers who shave and their SOs are OK with it, and that's good too. :)

[Jilmac]

Perhaps a compromise would work, I can tell you what worked for me. As a natural redhead (bald now) I never had a lot of chest hair nor was it very thick. When I decided to shave my chest my SO was disappointed but she suggested that I leave a landing strip between my man boobs. Since I don't wear revealing tops I don't worry about cleavage and the bra covers most of the hair anyway. Maybe you could suggest a compromise like that to your wife, it could be a win-win situation for both of you.

[JohnH]

Interesting for me to read - I have to remind myself that a typical man has a hairy chest unlike my relatively hairless breasts, and I am not on hormones. I do get ribbed by my wife on a regular basis about my "chi-chi's" or "tits". I do shave my chest but there is not very much to shave off - just to tidy things up.

Johanna

[Maria 60]

Guy at work told me he shave's his chest because it,s much cleaner and he doesn't sweat as much, and tells me it's the best. Got home and tried it and she loved it and also thought it looked much cleaner and made me look younger. Only problem is that it's a lot work to keep on top of it.

[darla_g]

You know I don't see how this discussion is much different than if you asked the wife for a particular hair style. "But honey I love it when you have long hair!"

"Well forget it, its me that has to fix it every morning before work and I like to keep it short. It's my hair and I'm going to do what I want with it."

It's the same thing with chest hair, it's your body and you can do what you want with it. End of discussion.

[Jess Marie]

It must just me, but my SO and I both find that body hair is a turn off. I am lucky enough to be of fair skin and blond hair, so what body hair I have does not show well, and where it does, zip goes the razor. I would say you should abide by your wife, because she has been with you through these 8 years.

[sterling12]

How long have you been married? You don't know how to play "The Game!"

Here's what Ya' do.....Soften her up by telling her, "I've decided to shave my head, eyebrows, and my genitals, and get a snake tatoo for my face; just in time for The Annual Family Picnic and Reunion on Memorial Day!" She will of course, raise all kinds of Hell, scream bloody murder, and threaten you with bad consequences. Keep this up for a week, minimum! She will be mentally exhausted by next week, and obviously freakin' out.

AT THAT POINT, you invite her for a serious, sit-down, candid, conversation at The Kitchen Table. She will tell you "No Way" again, and be prepared for another exhausting episode. At EXACTLY this point, you "roll over" and declare your desire to see that she is happy, and that your marriage is not a failure. After she sighs with relief, and drops her Mental Guard.....that's when you politely mention as an aside, "Well, since I'm not going to shave my genitals, how about I JUST shave my chest?"

Trust me, if you do it right, it works every time. That's how my Buddy got The Corvette! (Such a "reasonable" compromise from his original idea of purchasing an old Caboose for The Front Yard." See, you just have to use Imagination!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[SweetPea_GG]

How come everyone is misunderstanding some one ? I dont understand that ;)

I am also not "allowed" to shave any of the hair but the face. Since my wifey enjoys being with me when I am "me" I think I do not want to insist of shaving chest, arms , legs. It is true that it reduces my full experience but what's an impact against all the love that she provides. Whenever I have talked to her she agrees but is also sad. I am in so much love with her that I can't see her sad. Not removing my hair is a small price to pay for all the fun we have together.

Just my 2 cents ( or 50 paise ) or whatever ;))

Just wanted to say I loved this post made a big smile :)

[t-girlxsophie]

How come everyone is misunderstanding some one ? I dont understand that ;)

I am also not "allowed" to shave any of the hair but the face. Since my wifey enjoys being with me when I am "me" I think I do not want to insist of shaving chest, arms , legs. It is true that it reduces my full experience but what's an impact against all the love that she provides. Whenever I have talked to her she agrees but is also sad. I am in so much love with her that I can't see her sad. Not removing my hair is a small price to pay for all the fun we have together.

That's such a nice sentiment Tina,Couldn't have put it any better,my wifes health isn't the best atm so she has had a few teary moments,breaks my heart when I see her cry.That's another reason why I never take her acceptance for granted,she does love my smoothness though :)

Sophie