The real truth about crossdressing

[Kelly DeWinter]

I met the author of this article over the course of a week on conference and vacation. It was interesting that we hit it off so well. She confirmed an opinion i've held for a while that Crossdressing is becomeing more accepted amoung the current generation and that marriages and relationships survive and can thrive with early disclosure. She has a Louisana practice.

http://www.counselingresource.com/index.html

THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT CROSSDRESSING
by Ellen Sherman


1) Crossdressers Are Gay
More than likely not. As Dr. William Stayton, Head of the University of Pennsylvania's Department of Human Sexuality and himself a therapist for crossdressers, reported "People associate crossdressing with effeminacy and being gay and the fact is most of them are not gay. They are very definitely heterosexual. "In fact one of the most difficult areas for crossdressers was how to deal with the women with whom they wanted to be involved.

2) Crossdressers Don't Like Women
The truth is that rather than shying away from women, most crossdressers are as married or looking for a relationship as any cross section of men in America. "There is even some advantage to being a heterosexual crossdresser," says Dr. Stayton. "When dressed they often become more sensitive and understanding to the women in their lives. Their wives tend to find them delightful and often it can become a real enhancement to marital relations." However that "enhancement" can only come if the woman feels comfortable with her husband's occasional dressing. Many don't. As Florida lawyer Jeff/Jean reports, "What would happen was that as soon as women found out about "Jean" the relationship would end, so why did I have to keep banging myself in the head. I was married to a woman that didn't approve and it was painful. Now I tell the women and let them even see "Jean." If we're going to be involved then they'll have to accept all of me just like I have to accept all of them."

3) Women Who Love Crossdressers Must Be Lesbians
What's it like to love a man who's wearing a dress? Pam, the wife of a Bank V.P crossdresser recounts "I did feel funny at first. I love my husband as a man but when I saw him in a dress as "Barbara," I thought how can I love him? The answer was I didn't have to love him the same way. With "Barbara," we're friends like I would be with any girlfriend. When he's dressed as a man, I feel free to love him as a man."

4) Crossdressers Dress For Sexual Gratification
Most crossdressers reveal that relieving stress and relaxation were the feelings they most associated with their crossdressing. However many revealed that while teenagers there was a high degree of sexual excitement related to crossdressing mostly relieved through masturbation. As hormones calmed down and they reached adulthood the sexual element declined and the feelings the crossdressing elicited were very different." What you'll find," Dr. Stayton reported, "is that very early on they associate these clothes with relaxation and stress relieval. They often use it to feel calmer. There is an erotic element to the crossdressing. Many will crossdress or fantasize about being CD to enhance sexual enjoyment, but its not necessary."

5) Crossdressers Always Wear Women's Clothes
In fact, most may only dress once a month or once every six months. Many men don't ever even reach the point of fully dressing but feel the same relaxed feeling by just wearing women's undies under their suits. "You can't imagine how many politicians can't give a speech in Congress without wearing women's panties," Dr. Stayton commented, adding he has first hand knowledge since many are his patients.

6) Crossdressers Have Weird Sexual Habits
No more than most. However crossdressers did report their sex lives were enhanced by crossdressing to some degree. "Dale" recounted that "Although many CDs will deny it, there is a degree of extra arousal that comes with being crossdressed when making love but many women are not comfortable with that and we men have to be sensitive to that and accept it."

7) Crossdressers Look Like RuPaul
In fact many crossdressers are most comfortable dressing their " femme " selves as they would dress their male selves. Therefore most conventions of crossdressers find a roomful of men in dressed for success women's suits, low heels, tasteful makeup and coifed hair...much more Margaret Thatcher than RuPaul.

8) Crossdressing Develops in Adulthood
"We really find that crossdressing starts very young," reports Dr. Stayton. "Many remember that as preschoolers they got a certain feeling with Mom's clothing. It's very rarely something that develops in adulthood.

9) Crossdressers Are Made, Not Born
The current conventional wisdom seems to be that crossdressing is a result of both Nature and Nurture. "I certainly think there's a genetic influence just as for all of us there are things that happen that program us as to how we'll be sexual, whether we'll like redheads or thin women. We all have preferences, but the truth is there's no common thread and we really don't know why it happens," reports Dr.Stayton.

10) Crossdressers Are Schizophrenic
In reality crossdressers exhibit slight personality alterations in their "femme" role, but in general, their personalities only change to the extent that many people's do when assuming different roles in life, i.e. CEO, husband, father. One wife reports her husband likes to dance as his "femme" self where he wouldn't feel that free as a man. Other wives recount how their husbands will shop with them when otherwise they'd never have the patience.

11) Crossdressing Can Be Cured
"Truth is you can't change it," Dr. Stayton concludes. Most professionals now try to counsel the crossdresser to deal with his crossdressing rather than eradicate it. "When someone comes to me and feels it's sick behavior, then to me helping them to be healthy is to help them accept it and to be able to appropriately accept their own crossdressing feelings."

[Cynthia Anne]

WOW! MY GOSH! Everly word Is what I have beleived sence the begenning! I cant thank you enough for this info! THANK YOU! HUGS!

[CarlaWestin]

Thank you very much for this timely and informative post. I just came out to my wife recently. She is in the somewhat confused stage and this just validates what she's learned from internet research and her therapist. This is the first post that I'm using an actual picture of myself although I've been dressing for forty-five years.

Again, Thanks

[Phoebe P.]

This is exactly how I feel from 1-11. Thank you for posting this. I may show it to my wife so she will better understand.

[AllieSF]

That article sounds like a sales/advertising ad script written by a company that used outside sources, "experts in the field", to tell how good the product or service is for potential clients. I am not disputing what was written, just how it was written. Too superficial for me for such a complicated subject. A CDer may like it, but I think someone (SO, family members) who wanted detailed answers to those questions may not be totally satisfied with these statements. And, yes, I appreciate that it is maybe a short summary of their comments and beliefs.

[Heather64]

Thanks Kelly.
This comes at a particularly good time for me when I am coming to terms with how to manage my feeling.
Whether all of this is true I don't know, there seems to be some doubt as to it's veracity but I take heart from it's ideas.
Heather

[ColleenCD]

Hi Kelli<

It sure was nice to read FACTS from an article written by someone who must understand CD'ers. Thank you for the post.

Colleen

[Sophie Lynne]

Wonderful stuff this. Thanks for posting!

[Tanya C]

It's good to have this reality check to remind our loved ones and ourselves that we are pretty much the same as everyone else, with one important exception.

[Andromeda]

This should be required reading for all.

[VioletJourney]

10) Crossdressers Are Schizophrenic
In reality crossdressers exhibit slight personality alterations in their "femme" role, but in general, their personalities only change to the extent that many people's do when assuming different roles in life, i.e. CEO, husband, father. One wife reports her husband likes to dance as his "femme" self where he wouldn't feel that free as a man. Other wives recount how their husbands will shop with them when otherwise they'd never have the patience.

Sorry to get all anal about this, but I couldn't stop focusing on this part. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine to see Schizophrenia associated with Dissociative Identity Disorder. Schizophrenia has nothing to do with multiple personality disorders, it's a collection of disorders involving hallucinations and delusions, often senses of grandeur or paranoia.

Honestly, makes me a bit skeptical of her Ph.D and her psychological knowledge. Although we already knew all those things are true.

[Josey]

Simply put: a great posting! Thanks for sharing.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Sorry to get all anal about this, but I couldn't stop focusing on this part. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine to see Schizophrenia associated with Dissociative Identity Disorder. Schizophrenia has nothing to do with multiple personality disorders, it's a collection of disorders involving hallucinations and delusions, often senses of grandeur or paranoia.


That is an excellent point.

[erickka]

Good article, Kelly. If only some of the narrow minded people in this world would just read and understand this, maybe things could actually change for the better. In a nutshell, great post and thanks for sharing .

[lauraabdl]

Extremely good post, I for one understood and related, if only my SO could have.

[TGMarla]

Good stuff there. I concur with just about all of it. If only the rest of the world knew these facts and took them to heart.

[Kerigirl2009]

That about sums it up in a nut shell. someday we will all feel the confidence to be who we are no matter how where dressed. I hope.

[Pythos]

You know, this may sound like an advertising campaign, but honestly it rings quite true. Much, not all that I read was true for me, nor did I agree with everything. But this article should be read by those that put crossdressers down.

[dawnmarrie1961]

Quote from movie A FEW GOOD MEN "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" Yup. Sometimes we can't or won't.

[tiffanyjo89]

Yep, except for the fact that I'm "not looking for a woman because I'm not at the right stage in my life" I'd say that all 11 of those points are correct.

[kymmieLorain]

Thank you for posting Kelly. I hope suggested that she come on here.

Kymmie

[RenneB]

Very thoughtful post. I am 100% sure that I'm not gay, love women, not a lesbian, dress for the fun of it, don't always get to dress, like "normal" sex, definately don't look like RuPaul, developed/discovered my fem side at the age of 4, was definately born this way, am compartmentalized not skitzo, and haven't found a cure and am not lookin for one. I think that covers it for now....

Renne.....

[kristinacd55]

Ta daaaaa!! That just about puts it all in a nutshell Kelly.....no wonder you hit it off so well.

[BillieJoEllen]

Yeppers! Just about everything listed was/is true for me.

[Sue101]

I also think it reads like marketing material designed to placate fears. Some of the points are only half truths which makes them misleading. I suspect many SOs would totally disagree with the presentation.

[Jilmac]

Kelly, Thanks for the info. I wish something like this would have been available thirty-one years ago when I first told my wife (then fiancee) about my dressing. I don't know how much difference it would have made in her approval rating but it probably would have given her a better understanding of why I enjoyed it so much. She's in the great beyond now and her spirit is looking down on me as I can dress freely. I hope in the afterlife she undrestands.

[Lorileah]

7) Crossdressers Look Like RuPaul


in my dreams. If I could look like that I would dress everyday (as referenced in the statement 5)

[Momarie]

I also think it reads like marketing material designed to placate fears. Some of the points are only half truths which makes them misleading. I suspect many SOs would totally disagree with the presentation.

Damn girl,

You're BRAVE.

Now let me have it.....delete my post folks.
I'm getting used to it.

As an SO I could not disagree more with this kind of drival.
I must have missed the REAL TRUTH, while I've been living it.

(My dear sweet SO would have never been so disrespectful to post something as one sided as this)

[Lorileah]

Damn girl,


As an SO I could not disagree more with this kind of drival.
I must have missed the REAL TRUTH, while I've been living it.


I am confused here. You disagree with the points made in the OP or with Sue?

What is truth? As once was said "We all have truths are mine the same as yours?"

In any opinion there is perspective. The points made by the author in the OP are for the most part true for most TG's. If you have lived a life where your experiences are not similar then I am truly sorry. But what was stated is primarily true.

From a perspective of looking out on the ocean the world is flat. That is what most people believed and experienced until someone disproved it. The majority of what people "know" about transgenders is a skewed perspective similar to that. No not every TG is exactly what was listed but the majority are. Just like not every GG is a cookie cutter Stepford replica. This is not a journalistic publication. It is in fact a very subjective site. Posts are not meant to present two sides and then prove or disprove a theorem. That would be an academic study and I am sure that this was not presented in that way.

It is the right of members here to disagree. That is what gives us debates and it also gives us insights. But to say that someone's opinion or post is disrespectful just because you disagree isn't very respectful of you.

[Barbara Dugan]

A very interesting point of view but most of the premises don't apply to me ....since I am gay, not attracted to women and sometimes cross dressing play an important role on my sexual life...does that mean I am living a lie because this is not the truth about cross dressing or those are negatives aspects of crossdressing?

[Momarie]

I am confused here. You disagree with the points made in the OP or with Sue?

What is truth? As once was said "We all have truths are mine the same as yours?"

In any opinion there is perspective. The points made by the author in the OP are for the most part true for most TG's. If you have lived a life where your experiences are not similar then I am truly sorry. But what was stated is primarily true.

From a perspective of looking out on the ocean the world is flat. That is what most people believed and experienced until someone disproved it. The majority of what people "know" about transgenders is a skewed perspective similar to that. No not every TG is exactly what was listed but the majority are. Just like not every GG is a cookie cutter Stepford replica. This is not a journalistic publication. It is in fact a very subjective site. Posts are not meant to present two sides and then prove or disprove a theorem. That would be an academic study and I am sure that this was not presented in that way.

It is the right of members here to disagree. That is what gives us debates and it also gives us insights. But to say that someone's opinion or post is disrespectful just because you disagree isn't very respectful of you.

OMG....

I don't know how to be any more CRYSTAL CLEAR.

I APPLAUD both SUE 101 & AllieSF:

(That article sounds like a sales/advertising ad script written by a company that used outside sources, "experts in the field", to tell how good the product or service is for potential clients. I am not disputing what was written, just how it was written. Too superficial for me for such a complicated subject. A CDer may like it, but I think someone (SO, family members) who wanted detailed answers to those questions may not be totally satisfied with these statements)

FOR both of them and I believe many unheard others, being so BRAVE as to say anything that represents anything other than blanket superficial statements.

Look lorileah, you can cloud my words, confuse thier meaning and confound me all you want.

I was just stating a SIMPLE opinion.
I was not looking for a fight as you seem to be intent on.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Damn girl,

You're BRAVE.

Now let me have it.....delete my post folks.
I'm getting used to it.

As an SO I could not disagree more with this kind of drival.
I must have missed the REAL TRUTH, while I've been living it.

(My dear sweet SO would have never been so disrespectful to post something as one sided as this)

I try not to comment on posts i have created based on someone elses authored material , because I don't want to be the one to defend someone elses opinion. But i do take offense to being called 'disrespectful'. I provided a link to the authors website in case anyone wanted to write the author. I'm not sure what you have gone thru in your life but it must have been hurtful.

As you can tell by the other posts here, quite a few people happen to agree with the articles author. There are so many Transgendered people who live their lives painted by the bad things the other people have done. Why do you do the same thing. There are so many false assumptions about people that are just hurtful. Instead of using a broad paintbrush to dismiss the post, why not give points and a thought out opinion of what you disagree with ?

Kelly

[Momarie]

[QUOTE=Kelly DeWinter;
There are so many Transgendered people who live their lives painted by the bad things the other people have done. Why do you do the same thing......
Kelly[/QUOTE]

Well Kelly,
I guess I am just an awful unenlightened person ~ who doesn't have a clue what you all go through.
My experience with my SO and all he has suffered for the last few decades counts for nothing.
I know nothing of what a transgendered person goes through....

I apologise for all my false assumptions in the last 30+ years.

I apologise to you especially Kelly, for saying anything remotely offensive.
You are obviously so much wiser than I am in the ways of both men and women.

I will try to refrain from saying anything, ever, to trod delicately over your sensitive disrespected feelings again.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Momarie,

Apology accepted. Thank you for humbly acknowledging wisdom, and for the future promise of being a more sensitive person.

Kelly



Well Kelly,
I guess I am just an awful unenlightened person ~ who doesn't have a clue what you all go through.
My experience with my SO and all he has suffered for the last few decades counts for nothing.
I know nothing of what a transgendered person goes through....

I apologise for all my false assumptions in the last 30+ years.

I apologise to you especially Kelly, for saying anything remotely offensive.
You are obviously so much wiser than I am in the ways of both men and women.

I will try to refrain from saying anything, ever, to trod delicately over your sensitive disrespected feelings again.

[Pythos]

JamieTG's~SO.

You say this is drivel, ok, how about you post in this thread the REAL truth then. I have a feeling it will be quite enlightening.

I don't think the OP was being at all disrespectful, I think they were just posting something that they found that they wanted input on.

You coming in and saying that this is drivel and one sided just begs the question, what is the truth acording to you?

[sweetjan]

Lots of truth to the artical. Thank you for posting it. :)

[Momarie]

So easy to attack me.
So easy to mock me.

Takes some effort to look deeper....hell, it takes some effort just to see what is plainly spoken.

But what I say, is not at all what you want to hear.
Not even a teeny tiny little bit, so you must put me/remind me of my place.

[Maria 60]

Wow! Sounds like they got there information from my life.

[Debb]

So easy to attack me.
So easy to mock me.

Takes some effort to look deeper....hell, it takes some effort just to see what is plainly spoken.

But what I say, is not at all what you want to hear.
Not even a teeny tiny little bit, so you must put me/remind me of my place.

I for one would be interested to hear more. Sincerely.

[Babeba]

Momarie,

I can see where (especially from the point of view of an SO who is living with finding out about a husband who crossdresses) this may not be super satisfying. This is like the pleasantville version of the crossdressing story.

I feel that these are very short, very tidy and almost more like bullet point form notes introducing the reader to some very emotionally loaded topics for people to deal with in their own situations. The author's language is designed to work for a broad range of audiences - CDers, SOs, family, and interested public, all of whom may be at different levels of understanding (hence the over simplification of mental/personality issues to "schizophrenia" in order to address the author's belief that all crossdressers have relatively normal levels of mental health). Also, that this article focuses on the positive aspects of CDing when it is accepted by the individual and to a certain extent, the people around them.

I also feel that this article doesn't mention any of the negatives around CDing - that crossdressers have higher levels of suicide than the rest of society, that hundreds if not thousands of marriages have ended due to the feelings of betrayal that keeping crossdressing hidden causes, that when crossdressers learn to hide their dressing in the first place it makes it much harder for them to open up to people and make close, lifelong friendships - that their SOs often feel left out of day-to-day things sometimes.

On the overall, I like the article - it really resounds with the best people who crossdress want to (and can) be (adapted to their own sexuality and preferences of course, Barbara!) I wish everything boiled down this simply. Then more people would be happy.

[Sue101]

I don't mind people writing positive articles about crossdressing to counter the many silly negative ideas that undermine our community but that should not come at the expense of the truth. The title of the thread is "the real truth" but the article is so sugar coated that it certainly does not represent the real truth that most SOs recognise. If I were a SO I wonder have to wonder if members here were serious in their commitment to honesty and communication rather than promoting something a political spin doctor would be proud of.

I think Momarie should consider taking up the challenge and write her own version of the real truth so the gap between these two realities is revealed.

[Lorileah]

OMG....

I don't know how to be any more CRYSTAL CLEAR.
evidently not because I didn't understand and quit being so patronizing
.All I asked was clarification. As pointed out in above posts, your claim hasn't any merit until you state your facts. We understand that there may be some perspective you have taht we don't but don't just say everyone is wrong without backing up what you say



(That article sounds like a sales/advertising ad script written by a company that used outside sources, "experts in the field", to tell how good the product or service is for potential clients. I am not disputing what was written, just how it was written. Too superficial for me for such a complicated subject. A CDer may like it, but I think someone (SO, family members) who wanted detailed answers to those questions may not be totally satisfied with these statements)
I don't believe it was a complete thesis or total work it was basically and outline. It is something that was written to help people get some insight not be a Nobel Prize winner. You want more, that is why articles like this are out there to make you look deeper and discuss more.


FOR both of them and I believe many unheard others, being so BRAVE as to say anything that represents anything other than blanket superficial statements.

So we assume you didn't like what was written...OK tell us your side.


Look lorileah, you can cloud my words, confuse thier meaning and confound me all you want.

I was just stating a SIMPLE opinion.
I was not looking for a fight as you seem to be intent on.

It wasn't a fight I was looking for just clarification based on factual and real situations where you can refute the authors work. I will look forward to seeing your rebuttal to the article. If there were clouding of words I didn't do it I just quoted what you said.

And also to draw attention to you calling someone disrespectful while demonstrating said disrespectfullness

[GaleWarning]

My God! I am glad I stayed out of this one!

[Pythos]

I love how a request for someone's side is considered an attack. I also love the near total and complete dodge of the request. Why is it people say such things against what is a positive artical on something they don't like, and that they know the real truth, and yet they don't post what these things are.

[Angiemead12]

very insightful! Thanks for sharing.

[J'lyn GG]

I will stand up for JamieTG's SO, since noone else will. She stated an opinion, and I agree. The article is very superficial and sits on the surface. It isn't insightful at all. It TOUCHES on stuff that we already know. She doesn't have to justify her opinion to you ar anyone else. Her experiences are hers. She doesn't have to air them out for y'all to dissect.

Just b/c I believe the things in this article, doesn't mean it is all any less hurtful. To be lied to, to be shoved aside. And it is a totally one sided article and you can't deny that.

And Pythos, you would have attacked/mocked her if she said the sky was blue. You called me out b/c I GAVE AN EXAMPLE and a short answer. And, promptly, hijacked the post.

Maybe, if just ONE person had defended her right to her opinion (if not her use of words) she would have shared her experiences. Is it that you are so blinded by her very direct feelings, that you can't see past them, to the pain? Sometimes a person gets attacked or put down for their feelings or opinion, and its like a pack of wolves. Sure, most stay in the wings to watch, but the rest jump right in to claw their eyes out. Its worse than the 'in' group in middle school. Now, there are a very few that don't fit in these two groups, and to you, I thank you.

Hmmm, how is this post going to be spun?

[Pythos]

She is very much entitled to her opinion, but her opinion is also a statement that calls for back up.


As an SO I could not disagree more with this kind of drival.
I must have missed the REAL TRUTH, while I've been living it.


This is what she said. But she fails to back it up. What is the REAL TRUTH, and from what context? Perhaps her SO was one of these self absorbed, hedonistic, selfish, uncaring, MEN, that just happened to be a cross dresser. Perhaps the same is true of your SO. But to paint all of us with the same brush is absolute BS.

I LOVED my GG, I cared for her, I put up with a whole lotta crap from her, I did what I could to prevent her from getting fired, and you know what thanks I got? Well when she finally did get fired, I have not heard word one from her. Should I label all Goth girls as selfish, uncaring, unappreciative, little twerps based solely on my experiences with this representative of women?

Yes this OP is superficial and done in a way for people OUTSIDE of our community to see, and at least get a small amount of understanding about CD's. Now JamieTG'sSO, FAILED to say what it is she saw missing. She did not say what it was in the article that was inaccurate. All she said was that it was drivel and that the poster was disrespectful, with this quote.


(My dear sweet SO would have never been so disrespectful to post something as one sided as this)

That to me, and to the OP was an unnecessary attack, as can be seen by the follow up posts between the two.

I am asking JammieCD's~SO, what it is in the article that makes her say it is drivel.

So far she has not. I would like to know how asking her for this is an attack?


And Pythos, you would have attacked/mocked her if she said the sky was blue. You called me out b/c I GAVE AN EXAMPLE and a short answer. And, promptly, hijacked the post. I would have attacked/mocked this lady if she said the sky was blue???? WTH???? I would have done so if she said "The sky is blue which means all crossdressers treat their SOs like trash and think only of themselves." That or a similar would have most definitely gotten attacked.

[Crysten]

Well all good information, and mostly true. Of course, generalization always leaves the fringes out to hang. So where I think that all of this probably applies to 90% of the crossdressers out there, the other 10% are thinking "close, but not quite". Human behavior, in general, resists any attempt to exactly classify it because we humans are so complex, no definition of any behavior, or set of behaviors, can ever fully encompas the whole. So, I take it all with a grain of salt.

Of course, I like to dress up as a little school girl, and have someone else dress up as Musolini and throw bananas at me while I tap dance to the Lion King soundtrack. CLASSIFY THAT!!! =D

Good post though =).

[RachelF]

I think everybody has the right to express an opinion, even without backing her/his point of view, but without saying others are "disrespectful". When you do it in that way you cannot expect other thing but requests about giving more details.

Clearly the article expresses one point of view about a very complex and multiface topic. The best we can do to help others to stay on earth (and not in a pink cloud) is no give different positions, so we got what is missing and think more about the statments in the article. For example, I appreciate Babeba´s post. I hope people that disagree comes up with their opinion in similar ways. That would really enrich the discussion.

Rachel

[Jamie391]

I totally agree! I wish I would have seen this type of post about 40 yrs. ago, when I was in a state of confusion about my desires to CD. Never the less I accepted it and just decided to enjoy it's benefits. I especially like #5, the relaxed feeling. I think a lot of headway has been reached as far as better acceptance of CD's, however, it still has a long way to go. Gay pride has made great strides forward, hope heterosexual CD's can do the same.

[Tess]

Well all good information, and mostly true. Of course, generalization always leaves the fringes out to hang. So where I think that all of this probably applies to 90% of the crossdressers out there, the other 10% are thinking "close, but not quite". Human behavior, in general, resists any attempt to exactly classify it because we humans are so complex, no definition of any behavior, or set of behaviors, can ever fully encompas the whole. So, I take it all with a grain of salt.

I agree. Most of us relate very well to the article but it is a generalization. There are always individuals who don't fit every or even most of the authors bullet points. There are gay CD's and probably mentally defective CD's too. We mirror the general population. But it fits most of us pretty well.

[docrobbysherry]

Thanks, Kelly!

I identify ENTIRELY with the Proff!
Oh! Except for #s;
4, 6, 7 ,8 , and 9, of course! Don't they say that, "The exceptions prove the rule"?

[Momarie]

She is very much entitled to her opinion, but her opinion is also a statement that calls for back up.



This is what she said. But she fails to back it up. What is the REAL TRUTH, and from what context? Perhaps her SO was one of these self absorbed, hedonistic, selfish, uncaring, MEN, that just happened to be a cross dresser. Perhaps the same is true of your SO. But to paint all of us with the same brush is absolute BS.

I LOVED my GG, I cared for her, I put up with a whole lotta crap from her, I did what I could to prevent her from getting fired, and you know what thanks I got? Well when she finally did get fired, I have not heard word one from her. Should I label all Goth girls as selfish, uncaring, unappreciative, little twerps based solely on my experiences with this representative of women?

Yes this OP is superficial and done in a way for people OUTSIDE of our community to see, and at least get a small amount of understanding about CD's. Now JamieTG'sSO, FAILED to say what it is she saw missing. She did not say what it was in the article that was inaccurate. All she said was that it was drivel and that the poster was disrespectful, with this quote.



That to me, and to the OP was an unnecessary attack, as can be seen by the follow up posts between the two.

I am asking JammieCD's~SO, what it is in the article that makes her say it is drivel.

So far she has not. I would like to know how asking her for this is an attack?

I would have attacked/mocked this lady if she said the sky was blue???? WTH???? I would have done so if she said "The sky is blue which means all crossdressers treat their SOs like trash and think only of themselves." That or a similar would have most definitely gotten attacked.

How dare you say anything against my dear Jim.
Who in the hell do you think you are?

My Jim/Jamie is the sweetest, most kind soul you could ever hope to meet.

I don't owe you shit pythos/kelly/lorileah!

I don't have to explain myself, as far as I am concerned that would just give you more ammunition to say nothing of an opportunity to take out your misplaced anger against me.
You and those like you, have to invent things to bitch about.

I never said I disagreed with one word of the original post.
I did say it was superficial and over simplified.

Where do you get off?
You ARE disrespectful, rude and nasty.

Now, take my words, cut them to pieces to fulfill your self pitying needs and whine to a moderator to delete my post.
I am sick and tired of your hatred.

[Kelly DeWinter]

How dare you say anything against my dear Jim.
Who in the hell do you think you are? ..............................



Jamie and anyone else .... PLEASE take your arguments into private chat or IM. You have said your piece, let your comments reflect the original topic. It's really not fair to people who want to comment on the topic. On top of that, when people argue like this the moderators close the Thread.

I have to ask you and everyone else, is the constant bickering fair to others who actuly like to be on this site ?

Kelly

Moderators. Please don't close this thread because of the petty bickering.

[Annaliese2010]

Me:

1) Crossdressers Are Gay
NOPE BUT I CLD GO FOR ANOTHER M2F CD WHICH 2ME IS LESBIANISM

2) Crossdressers Don't Like Women
LUVEM...but coming out of bad ships makes me wna let my inner bit#h have full reign - as spiteful 'revenge' and gentle 'outrage' :p

3) Women Who Love Crossdressers Must Be Lesbians
IF THE CD IS TRULY FEM SELF IDENTIFIED...IM SRRY BUT...YES (COOL!)

4) Crossdressers Dress For Sexual Gratification
YEP

5) Crossdressers Always Wear Women's Clothes
ONLY WHEN FEM

6) Crossdressers Have Weird Sexual Habits
WHATS WEIRD NOWADAYS? INTERESTING, EXOTIC, EXTREME, CREATIVE, INVENTIVE? THEN YES.

7) Crossdressers Look Like RuPaul
EXCUUUUSE ME?

8) Crossdressing Develops in Adulthood
DUNNO

9) Crossdressers Are Made, Not Born
I'D LIKE 2 BE 'MADE' ;)

10) Crossdressers Are Schizophrenic
SO WHO ISNT?

11) Crossdressing Can Be Cured
WITH A GOOD SPANKING! (ME ME ME !!)

[Phylis Nicole Schuyler]

I thought this forum was to discuss issues calmly, logically and with great care for understanding everyones feeling and ideas. So far, this has turned into a cat fight and pissing contest. Lets act as intelligent and mature adults instead of little kids. JEEEZ! Too bad we can't give timeouts.

[ReineD]

My opinion of the points made in the OP:

They are completely true for some CDers (certainly most of the CDers in this forum), they are partially true for others, and not true at all for still others.

They do not take into account the behaviors that some CDers engage in when they feel they are expressing themselves innocently enough while their wives disapprove, so these CDers resort to lies, omissions, or perhaps minimizing, and the trust issues with resulting angst that stems from all of this. They also don't mention the negative aspects of having difficulty with self-acceptance or wife-acceptance, such as potential depression, drug & alcohol abuse, bouts of anger and rage, nor to they discuss that even sometimes a non-fetishist CD will have sexual fantasies that he does not wish to share with his wife but that she still picks up on (and will make worse in her head when they don't talk about these things), even if he doesn't engage in any of the behaviors.

My opinion on what went wrong in this thread:

The reason there was so much bickering in this thread has to do with a common issue here in that many people persist in seeing the world as only being true from their own points of view. If Jamie and Grace Anne have hung around women whose husbands numbered among the alcoholic, fetishistic liars, then their views will be colored with the belief that all CDers must be this way. And some CDers here for whom it is a pleasant, non-sexual pastime will have a difficult time believing there are many CDers out there who are into it for the sexual thrill.

So yes, we should all feel free to state our opinions, and this is to JamiesTG-SO specifically ... your opinion is appreciated too, just don't keep assuming that if you say anything you'll have an entire forum of CDers bashing you for it. There might be one or two argumentative types here who love nothing more than controversy, but just ignore them and try to pay attention, objectively if you can, to the points that others are making. When you start posting from such a defensive POV, it can take on the appearance that you are the one on the attack ... not the one who fears being attacked. If this makes sense. The biggest criticism was that you disagreed with the original premises, but it took awhile before you said you thought they were superficial. People here were trying to figure out what your objections were, specifically. And unless I've missed it, I can't see anyone attacking your SO.

In other words, Momarie, I think you read aggression and disrespect in comments where instead there are questions. But, if you've been in forums where people have been downright insulting every time you've posted, then I understand where you're coming from. Just try to not be afraid to say what you have to say without assuming any negative consequence, and if you disagree with something, say why so that people can consider your point of view. And then let everyone else after you comment on what you've said, or not comment. You'll see there will be some who will agree with you, and others who won't. :hugs:

TO ANYONE ELSE WHO POSTS AFTER ME:

Don't keep commenting on the negative vibes caused by the arguing above between certain members over things other than the OP, else I will close the thread. Just keep your comments to the OP or other non-argumentative type posts that others have made.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Reine;

You missed your calling, I truely believe that the post of Secretary of State should be an elected position. I would vote for you in a heartbeat. As usual you have the abilty to make your position heard, bring common sense to the issue at hand, and broker a peace settlement, without offending anyone.

Well Done Madam Secretary

Kelly

P.S. If you decide to run for office, I'd like to be appointed ambassador to the Bahamas

[ReineD]

Oh wow! Someone said last week that she would vote for me if I ran for President. And now Secretary of State! LOL

... and I can't even find a job. I guess I know where to go in case I ever need letters of reference. :D

[Samantha Jaynes]

Well all good information, and mostly true. Of course, generalization always leaves the fringes out to hang. So where I think that all of this probably applies to 90% of the crossdressers out there, the other 10% are thinking "close, but not quite". Human behavior, in general, resists any attempt to exactly classify it because we humans are so complex, no definition of any behavior, or set of behaviors, can ever fully encompas the whole. So, I take it all with a grain of salt.

Of course, I like to dress up as a little school girl, and have someone else dress up as Musolini and throw bananas at me while I tap dance to the Lion King soundtrack. CLASSIFY THAT!!! =D

Good post though =).

That's really cute ! You made me laugh.

[KimMcNelis]

I think the original post was a nice, simple beginning to describe the typical experience for many crossdressers. Having said that, I think it's terribly dangerous to generalize what was said to all, or even most, CD's... and certainly not applicable to all trans people. We are a community of people, and as such are very diverse. We each have our reasons and perspectives, and I hope that they can be shared with each other respectfully.

At the risk of sounding like a commercial, I think reading "My Husband Betty" (MHB) should be 'required' by a CD; and their partner, if any. I learned things about myself and others, even after decades of counseling and introspection, and in trying to keep a balanced perspective. MHB is not a cure all and by no means a complete treatise (I'm not sure any single piece of literature could be; again, because even with our similarities the trans community does have a lot of diversity), and it is a book I strongly recommend. :)