Are you living "Underground?"

[Sejd]

Sometimes I have, or should I say, lately I have had this feeling of living underground. It has been a long time since I was out and about as Sejd, and it takes it's toll. Not that I am confined, locked up at home. It's more that I live in a situation when I only go out when my SO is not in town. Sometimes that means weeks, sometimes only day, and in worst case, sometimes a month. In worst case, I get toxic. I get anxious and sometimes even in panic, feeling that I am loosing my connection to my true self. I dream about shaving arms and legs. I dream about mending clothes, painting nails, what outfit to wear next time I go out. I worry about being obsessed about this T thing, about going mentally insane. (OK, maybe not insane, but something close to it). I surf the internet. Play "I'll never find another yo" by the Seekers and imagine that I am Judith Durham !!!! do most of us live this Underground lives I wonder? I know that either way, out or not, this is a difficult existence but we have to make the most of it. I don't like to live "Underground" I don't think anyone would! So that's my challenge for now. To most of my time be underground and to long for the moments of "Shine" and all out pleasure. Maybe not so bad after all. I could be living in Libya or Afghanistan. The fact of life is: It is not the present situation which matters, it is how we react to it. :0) Greetings from your part time "underground" Trannie.www.Sejd2spirit.blogspot.com

[JohnH]

No I am not living "underground". Not only NO, but HELL NO.

I shave my arms, chest, and legs, and I wear dark nail polish on my toes and clear nail polish on my finger and grow my fingernails long, and I have a femme haircut.

I have gone to a number of community chorus rehearsals where I sing second bass wearing denim skirts, Hawaiian shirts, makeup, and women's sandals. I never got any remarks of how I was dressed. There was a tenor that envied my voice since I can sing down deep.

And I wear denim skirts in warm weather all the time instead of shorts. My dear wife has gone for walks with me while I am wearing a dress and she is wearing pants [she does not wear skirts or dresses].

You are simply going to have to negotiate with your SO so you can be free to go out dressed when you want to. Ultimately you have to grab the bull by the horns.

Take care,

Johanna

[Melody Moore]

I couldn't live like that, especially now & it would kill me if I was ever tried to forced into that
situation. Hormone therapy saved my life - If I didn't transition I have no doubts I would have
been dead within 5 years because that is how bad my immune system was. Even my cholesterol
levels came down as soon as I started hormone therapy when I have tried taking Lipitor & low
fat diets that made no difference - Go figure? So there is no way I could ever live underground
because of a partner & if that were the case, then she would definitely have to go.

[Rianna Humble]

Hi Sejd,

You must be a much stronger person than I am because I could not cope with having to live like that :sad: I am lucky never to have had an SO, so I have never had to worry about how my Gender Dysphoria would affect her.

I completely understand the feeling of going mad if it drives you to listen to the seekers :p

Given that I was outed in the most widely read national sleaze rag over here, I don't think I could go underground even if I wanted to :heehee:

Hope things look up for you soon.

[morgan51]

Sorry you are feeling frustrated. I do as well sometimes. Doing small things seem to give me some peace.Androgenous clothes girl jeans and footwear etc. Getting acrylic nails and wearing them 24/7, getting my eyebrows waxed /thinned, perhaps painting toes or getting acrylic toes done. or perhaps just wearing polish. I get a lot of enjoyment from having earrings in all the time ,a lot of people wear them 24/7. My wife is pretty tolerant and doesn't give me too much grief over these small steps. I do have to present male most of the time albet a fem one. I hope you can find some peace. Morgan

[Kaitlyn Michele]

sejd..welcome to the middle path...the biggest thing you need to watch for is that despite any best intentions, the difficulties you post about are real...and they impact you every day...you have a calmness and positiveness about and those are great qualities for anyone, but are especially great for ts people...

don't let your best qualities get buried under the feeling that you are isolated...what you are describing is basically part of what GID is....probably just telling you what you already know but i sense you are hurting a little..

[gretchen2]

I lived under ground for years trying to convince myself that I was just a crossdresser. I finally did start to go nuts and could no longer live in the insanity that I was creating by denying my true identity. Now in the early stages of transition I am dealing with the craziness of transition issues. Life is amazingly bizarre. Sounds like you might need to make some big decisions.

[Wendy_Marie]

While I do not consider myself as living underground...I see the reference your making here.
I do seem to schedule my need for public interactions with certain oppurtune times that I know will result in less exposure to the general populice.
Let me give an example of what I mean....I had a need to do some grocery shopping over the last few days and instead of just loading up the Durango and going...I waited until 7 a.m. on this Saturday morning to go..knowing that at this hour and especially on this day the market would be all but deserted which it was...and so my exposure time to the public was very limited to just a handful of other shoppers and the Associates who work at my local Price Cutter Market.

Sometimes I feel that this is the cowardly way for me to go about my daily activities...but for now at least it is allowing me to find a way to function while I gain confidence, courage and knowledge of my community.

[Melody Moore]

I do seem to schedule my need for public interactions with certain oppurtune times that I know will result in less exposure to the general populice.

I just made a post (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?153864-Steps-of-Transitioning&p=2497933&viewfull=1#post2497933) in 'Safe Haven', the private area for transsexuals here, but it serves no purpose to
people like yourself if you are not a member of that forum. So I will post part of it here for the benefit
of those that don't have access to that section.

I know girls in my local group that have been on HRT for over 2 years & they still have huge issues going out in public.
Some of them live in share-house with a couple of other trans folk, so she is living in a secure place & I have only ever
seen her out in public with other trans-girls & never on her own. So I don't think that she can even consider to be living
as a 'female' when she has surrounded herself with other trans-people. trying to avoid people is no real life test or any
sort of real life experience (RLE) to effectively gauge how you will adjust into the role as a female.

Personally I believe that you shouldn't even start HRT if you can't go about your everyday business without needing
someone there to hold your hand. The first time I ever went out in public was on my own to do my grocery shopping
to see how I would feel in public doing something that I would need to regularly do. I knew I had to be confident & have
a lot of faith in myself if I was going to pass. I went out on my first shopping sortie in the middle of the day & with a
smile on my face & the reaction I got was very positive - other people I passed in the shopping aisles smiled back at
me. I got the biggest surprise at the checkout when the cashier addressed me as 'Madam'. So for me I passed my first
test with flying colours.

When I came out initially I was sharing a house with a guy who had issues with my transition, but I was offered a place
to stay with another trans-girl from my group, I took her up on her offer, but we had a fall-out after she reneged on a
deal where I was going to take over renting the house from her. So I had to look for alternate accommodation & now I
am so grateful that this happened. Now I live in a place where I am surrounded by people (mainly girls) who are straight,
all except one girl who is a lesbian which has provided me with experience that has been so valuable to me. I have come
to realise that I have become stronger by being on my own & not leaning on my local support group so much. I still go to
my local support group meetings, but mainly for the benefit of others who are not so strong & confident, but its ironic that
the one girl I mentioned earlier that has been on hormones for over 2 years & still has confidence issues believes she knows
better & has something over me. She thinks she has more knowledge & experience than me. So I laugh a lot about this now
because its easy to see who is the happier & much stronger person here. Others in my local group have asked me to start a
new support group that will teach them how to be less dependant on others like our current group does at present. Ironic eh?

The bottom-line is if you are to grow up & ever stand on your own two feet as a real woman,
then you need to be prepared to let go of your security blanket & your Mummy's apron strings.

[Sharon]

There came a time several years ago that I decided I needed to put myself first for a change, rather than forever doing what others wanted, or what I thought (huge emphasis on that word) they wanted. I'm a giver by nature and I needed to teach myself to receive, most especially in regards to emotional matters. Now that I have done so, I have learned how to take care of all whom I care for, including myself -- the balance works well for us all and others now have the opportunity to do for me as well.

So, no, underground for me -- it's all aboveground and honest.

[Melody Moore]

I'm a giver by nature and I needed to teach myself to receive, most especially in regards to emotional
matters. Now that I have done so, I have learned how to take care of all whom I care for, including
myself -- the balance works well for us all and others now have the opportunity to do for me as well.
This would be one of the hardest concepts for most people, including ourselves to get our heads around. I am the same in that
I give what I can to others, but often it's much more. When it comes to a partner who is transitioning often they are accused
of being selfish & noone wants to be seen as selfish. So because transitioning requires us to be selfish, many of us put it off out
of the fear of hurting others & because of the shame we often also feel that such act will be seen as being selfish. But like you
also said Sharon, it balances itself out. I was accused of being selfish, but if my accusers could see now how much happier I am,
along with the stability I have achieved I my personal health & overall well being, then they should see why I needed to do this.

However some people have a one eyed view towards people like us for doing the things that we need to do in our lives. It's
a shame really that they put us all through this type of hell & we all lose through this type of personal ignorance & bigotry.

So who are the really selfish people here is it us, or is it them?

[Jorja]

Yes, I live underground, sort of. My house is built into the side of a hill. The only view of it is the front of the house the other three sides are covered with earth.

Now before you get all wound up and excited, I do understand what you are asking. In that respect, no I have never lived underground. I can see where it may be necessary for someone who has not come out as yet.

[Kelsy]

Sejd,

The hardest thing to do is live in the middle and the stress will birng you down. freedom is a simple thing not easily attained
for many! Counting costs and coming out by inches is something I know alot about.

Sorry your struggling,
Kelsy

[Melody Moore]

Kelsy,

This is something I tried to point out to Sejd a long time ago, but he made it very
clear to me that his wife wouldn't be supportive & divorce was not an option. So
what do you do? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

My heath & freedom, along with the inner peace I have attained are far more important to me than
any partner I could ever meet & fall in love with. If someone isn't supportive of me being happy &
healthy then they are not the person for me. In which case I am as good as dead. So I would rather
walk away from someone that I really loved & just try to maintain a relationship as good friends.

If someone you love has an issue with you being happy & healthy, if you dig deeper you will find
they are only thinking of themselves & they don't love you as much as you might think they do
& personally I think this exactly is what Sejd is not willing to accept here. Sad, very sad that a
person you love puts such limitations on your life that stops you from reaching your full potential.

[Sophora]

I am half living "underground" and half not. I will explain this.

I lived underground all of my life. I shut out my feelings of wanting to look/feel/act like a girl. I did some manly things to shut these feeling out. I joined the army. I chastised my self for wearing women's panties and lingerie. Then something happened to me. About 2 years ago, I met a girl. I accidently told her about my desire to be a female. She said nothing about it and ignored it. I ignored it as well. I was in Wal-mart one night and stroll by the panties. Something caught my eye and bought a pack(my first pair in 5 years). I put them one and was hooked. She bought me some. We went to Victoria's Secret(Victoria is also one of my favorite female names and almost decided on that name by the way) together.

Then out of the blue, Her and my friend(who was like a brother) decided to hook up behind my back. I was devastated. I lost both of them in my life(although me and her are back on speaking terms since I had told her that I am looking for a job so I can transitioning). I decided that it was time to look at my life. I had been miserable most of my life and I wanted to find out why I couldn't keep girlfriends and why I couldn't be happy in those relationships in the first place. The more I delved the more I uncovered the feelings that I had buried long ago. My desire to be complete(to finally be a women).

I just started to wear make-up and have worn it to work. No one said a thing except one coworker who before he left came up and said "don't be offended but are you wearing make-up?" It took me by surprise. However I had a much test earlier tonight, I want out in my female (outer) clothing. I got honked at once and someone screamed hey to me but other than that no batted an eye. I now wish all of clothes were women's as my desire to female is much stronger now.

oh by the way, the ex that I mentioned above seen my make-up yesterday(after I told her that I was wearing) and her reaction was "yeah you can pass as female" that comment really floored me.

However for work right now I can't dress in female's clothing as I haven't told my bosses that I am transgender yet. I felt antsy for the first time being in guy's clothes(I wanted to leave work to come home and change into something more feminine). So yeah I have to be underground for work and for parents at the moment until I can start seeing the therapist and hopefully continue on this path as I am loving it so far(I know there will be some negative parts but right now I am happy and joyful for that to matter at the moment).

[erica12b]

underground , in the closet , me , yes its all i know ,

[Aprilrain]

do most of us live this Underground lives I wonder?

No, I certainly do not live an underground life. Everyone who knew me before as a male now knows me as a female. I would not go back for all the tea in China. I do make some concessions for my parents but that will be a temporary situation. Anyway for most of my life I did live underground, "underground" even to myself and it drove me to transition plain and simple. I needed to have enough pain and misery with a clear knowledge of what I wanted (a moment when i could not deny the obvious) to propel me past that initial hurtle. Until I had that I was doomed to live an increasingly bitter, angry, numb and unfulfilled existence. But thats just me.

[AKAMichelle]

I would have to say that the answer is "NO". I have been letting people find out about me so fast that my male life is disappearing.

[Kelsy]

It is nearly impossible to satisfy everyone and in trying to do so you can never satisfy your self completely.
In fact I have made sacrifices and have tried to please others and have discovered that no one is
happier atleast I'm not and most could care less or are unaware that the effort has even been made!!
My wife loves me and accepts me but isn't sure to what extent she can tolerate but she adjusts as we go.
We both know that the dysphoria is not going away and if it becomes to much
then we will have to part ways. Is that selfish - no - it's reality It's a (difficult to deal with) reality.
Most relationships require compromise but gender dysphoria doesn't lend itself to compromise all that
well in the end as we get older we realize the we are captive to our condition and the biggest regret we
can face is that we didn't move through the process and gain the completeness we are seeking.
There is honor in trying to do right by your SO but it is a two way street. It's clear to me that all of my relationships
have to face a real life test of sorts and many if not most will fail. Self sacrifice is no longer an option for me.

I need the struggle to end and the dysphoric noise reduced.

[Jorja]

It is nearly impossible to satisfy everyone and in trying to do so you can never satisfy your self completely.

I need the struggle to end and the dysphoric noise reduced.

First off Kelsy or anyone else, DO NOT try to satisfy anyone but yourself when it comes to gender dysphoria. Some sacrifice may be required.
Second, There is only one way to put an end to the struggle and dysphoric noise. Move forward through transition and SRS if desired or needed. This is not simple to do and yes for many it is easier said than done. Many of us have been there and have survived to live sucessful productive lives. Only you can make the call for what is right for you.

[Wendy_Marie]

[URL="http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?153864-Steps-of-Transitioning&p=2497933&viewfull=1#post2497933"]IThe bottom-line is if you are to grow up & ever stand on your own two feet as a real woman,
then you need to be prepared to let go of your security blanket & your Mummy's apron strings.

Wow, I guess you told me! When you live in the middle of the Bible belt with very few resources and little to no support you do what you have to do to cope and to survive...guess my life doesn't meet your expectations...To be truthful about...I don't live my life to try and please anyone including you.

Thanks for your comments though...if it was your goal to make me feel like excrement scraped off the bottom of your high and mighty superior high heel...well then you succeded.

[Rianna Humble]

I had a need to do some grocery shopping over the last few days and instead of just loading up the Durango and going...I waited until 7 a.m. on this Saturday morning to go..knowing that at this hour and especially on this day the market would be all but deserted which it was...and so my exposure time to the public was very limited to just a handful of other shoppers and the Associates who work at my local Price Cutter Market.

Sometimes I feel that this is the cowardly way for me to go about my daily activities...but for now at least it is allowing me to find a way to function while I gain confidence, courage and knowledge of my community.

In my not so humble opinion, you are wrong to brand yourself a coward. You are dealing with a condition that doesn't go away all by itself, and you are doing so in a way that allows you to get comfortable with one step forward before you take the next one. There is nothing wrong with that!

When I first started going out dressed, I too rescheduled my shopping trips for late at night or early morning. At the time the consequences of running into someone who might recognise me would have been disastrous, but the need to go out dressed was overwhelming. Luckily, not many people I know shop at 3 a.m. in my local Asda (the UK branch of WalMart). It even got so that I hated having to shop during the day because that meant doing it in drab.

Since I was able to come out (and then was publicly "outed" and mocked by a national scandal rag), I don't have to worry any more, but at the start I did what I could. That is al that you are doing, so I will repeat: there's nothing wrong with that!

[Sejd]

Melody Moore
Is that on purpose that you talk about me as "HE" on this forum??? I find that very strange and a bit insulting as a matter of fact.