Why Can't We All Just Get Along?

[Jamie001]

Within the past several months, I have witnessed a lot of dissension and disrespect on this forum regarding how we express our gifted gender identity. For some folks, that simply means appearing as a man wearing a skirt and high-heels, while for others it means going all the way and appearing completely feminine and attempting to pass.

We need to remember that we are all different from society's cisgendered standard and therefore we should be respectful of one-another. Just in the past few weeks, I have seen several posts stating that folks that don't go "all the way" with feminine presentation are detrimental to the transgender community.

We have so much dissension in our own ranks, how can we ever expect to make progress? Folks come to this forum to escape the bigotry and prejudice of society only to find a different form of bigotry and prejudice. As Rodney King once stated "Why Can't We All Just Get Along"? Why can't we be respectful of all forms of gender presentation including the MtF that goes all the way to pass, and the man that just wants to weak skirts, pantyhose, and high-heels as a man? Why do some of us feel so strongly that there is only one form of alternative gender expression that we must impose that ideal on other members of this forum?

Since we all have a different form of gender expression that is not the societal norm, we need to band together and respectfully celebrate our similarities rather than highlighting our differences.

Jamie

[AllieSF]

Actually Jamie, I think that there is an overall general consensus to accept all that diversity here. But I do believe that the male testosterone and some of that female stuff stirs it's ugly head once in awhile and results in people overly defending themselves in strong words versus diplomatic ones. Some people have a hard time agreeing to disagree, even after a mod asks them to get back on topic. Just look at the last two posts on Zenith's "I had my first date" thread. There always seem to be those that must get in the last word, actually whole pages of words. Some of those threads are actually fun to read, but others get a little sick after a while. Too many posters think that their answer is the only answer, others like the debate, which I do too when maturely carried out. Good luck in convincing the crowd here.

[Marissa]

:D:brolleyes::devil::daydreaming: Okay, not laughing at the idea of this thread...just the thought that this topic finally raised its weary head..its been long time coming. About a month ago, I sent a PM to another member to explain my frustrations of how the tone of the site has changed in past 6 months..

I even thought of trying to conduct a poll on those who have been members for a year or more to see if the views were the same. No, I won't say its due to new members..I'm not that foolish..but there are some topics that are just as you state "This is what I think and I won't accept any different"

In the end, many (at least I hope) come to realize that just because we joined this site, does not mean we are the same. The only difference is that some will accept you as you are..while others won't.

Now this form of acceptance is not always true, meaning that I will accept anyone's choices, but our interaction would not be beyond this site. That is the freedom we all have.

This is life's reality at best...any group however bonded, will in time have some seperation.

[Rachel Morley]

Yep, me too. Why Can't We All Just Get Along? This place is not the place it once used to be (like say 3 years ago) it does, for sure, at least in my head, it seems to be different nowadays. A victim of it's own success perhaps? Anyway, I do agree with the sentiment, and in fact it's one of the reasons I rarely post anymore (not that I'm missed LOL). Anyway, I still love this place, but I am somewhat saddened at the way (IMHO) it seems to be heading. :2c:

[Maddie22]

I totally agree with this thread. I've been a member since 2007, and while I may not post as much as some people here, I do post a decent amount. The example of Zenith's post is a great example. It seems like we are attacking each other, and not respecting our opinion's.

A few other notes, I feel as if we don't really take into account the whole OP either. There has been many posts started in which they say A, B & C, and the following posts mention A & B and attack the OP for forgetting point C. If the last poster would have read the whole OP they would have seen C.

I kind of think the only time true discussions are taking place are when we are argumentative as well.

Well that is my little tid-bit for this discussion.

[Pythos]

I think what is happening is "heated" discussion on topics that are in many ways quite important. Unfortunately such discussions can also raise emotions. Have you ever seen British Parliament in action? Now check out some of the stuff in the Japanese Parliament. (There is outright stabbings happening there sometimes!!!. LOL )

As long as we remain civil toward one another, and not think we are being attacked, or being the ones attacking, then heated discussion is fine by me.

That is the point of such a forum.

[Eryn]

This place is not the place it once used to be (like say 3 years ago) it does, for sure, at least in my head, it seems to be different nowadays.

Could you elaborate on what differences you perceive? I've only been here for a few months and I hate to think that people like me have caused harm to what I consider to be a wonderful resource.

I perceive the site as being quite accepting of everyone. Sure, there is an occasional "loose cannon" but they occur on any public forum. There are also occasional disagreement, but in a discussion that is often the point. It seems that the moderators keep a pretty tight rein on discussions and put out most fires before they get too large.

Eryn

[Sarah_Jane]

I am new to this site and I have noticed some members think they are superior to others, since I consider myself a successful well adjusted freak, who am I to judge others. Certain elitist attitudes on this site are certainly a turn off, but you will run into that no matter where you go. Just my two cents.

[Karren H]

If liking to wear the same kind of clothes were a good justification for friendship.... All women would get along and there would be no reality tV!! And personally I enjoy the drama... Its quite entertaining at times!

[PretzelGirl]

It may be all about perception. I remember a level of contention when I first got on here and it at least seems about the same. It can be easier to forget partially because of time and also when you are new, you can either get caught up in drama or ignore and latch on to better things. Now it isn't constant as everything has a natural ebb and flow. Sometimes the best thing to do when the drama appears to rise is to just go to the next thread. We never seem to make it easier for the mods....

[Cynthia Anne]

[QUOTE=Sarah_Jane;2499990] I consider myself a successful well adjusted freak, who am I to judge others.) I wont have you talking that way girl! There is No FREAK ALLOWED! I consider you as a friend as I do every last member here! We all have our own opinions and we can't always agree, but we are all sisters! Speaking for myself, if I ever offend someone I hope they will tell me! Hugs!

[Rachel Morley]

Could you elaborate on what differences you perceive? I've only been here for a few months and I hate to think that people like me have caused harm to what I consider to be a wonderful resource.

I perceive the site as being quite accepting of everyone. Sure, there is an occasional "loose cannon" but they occur on any public forum. There are also occasional disagreement, but in a discussion that is often the point. It seems that the moderators keep a pretty tight rein on discussions and put out most fires before they get too large.

Eryn

Hi Eryn,

As I said to someone else who PMed me on this very point, most people here are accepting of others but for what it's worth my 2 cents is that in my humble opinion a few years ago there were so many more people here that were so extra supportive of others no matter what they said, whatever their type of CDing was, or their opinions about it all and in particular what others did. No one wanted to have the last word on a particular point ... it was much more like GGs seem to be. In other words, everyone seemed to more accepting of difference and more emotionally supportive instead of "trying to fix it" like guys do. Women are known to be more emotionally supportive to one another - yes?

It's purely a personal perception I have. Don't get me wrong, this is still a great place with lots of lovely people but IMHO there used to be more of them ... that's all. Again this is my own personal view point, which may differ from others, and I'm Ok with that.

Hugs
Rachel

[ReineD]

This place is not the place it once used to be (like say 3 years ago) it does, for sure, at least in my head, it seems to be different nowadays.

It is different, even among the concerns that GGs have. Three years ago there were many more GGs who came here bemoaning the fact their husbands wanted to shave their chests. We still have that, but there are many more GGs who struggle with their husbands who now want to transition.

The times they are a changing, and I think it is because there are more and more people picking up their courage and going out in the mainstream. The tired old topics of what color panties are you wearing just don't cut it any more. Thank God.

In answer to the OP's question about why the divide among CDers, I posted this in another thread but I'll say it here again since it is almost the same topic. IMO the one faction that judges the other does so because of fear. I think it's precisely because there are CDers now who want to be able to be themselves out in public and they don't want to be judged. They're afraid they will lose loved ones, friends, jobs, etc, and they try to make it better for everyone by making up rules they think will make a positive difference. They suffer the discrimination as much as anyone else, they have to live with the fallout of stereotypes too, and they're just trying to figure out why there is such bias in society and what to do in order to neutralize the situation. I honestly don't think it's done to put down anyone within the community, but more as a means of self preservation.

[Kate Simmons]

I,personally, value diversity and have no problem accepting everyone for who they are. Some, on the other hand, have pre conceived ideas that you cannot knock out with a baseball bat and will not change even if they wear a dress. Human Nature at it's finest. Go figure!:)

[eluuzion]

hiya Jamie,

Here is another option to consider, which (I believe) influences everything we do: "Perceptions". We all have them and they are all unique to the individual, biased by our outside influences and formed from our personal experiences.

"Transference" and "Projection", a couple of psychology terms...

Transference (loosely defined) is when we take the perceptions and expectations of one person(s) and "project" them onto another person(s)...or thing. Then we interact with the other person(s) or thing as if the other person is that transferred pattern.

[We are not really battling specific members or a "faction group" in a forum directly. We are simply unconsciously assuming the familiar role we are routinely faced with... when dealing with our parents, hecklers, or other entity that causes discord in our lives.]

Projection (loosely defined) is simply the defense mechanism whereby we transfer our feelings about one person onto another.
[Or onto a "faction group" in a forum]

It is easier to explain by example: (I hope):heehee
I will use the "inanimate" version...

Example 1 "My [relationship] with my computer"
Sure, it is an inanimate object. But if I admit it, it is much more to me. It (unconsciously) represents my parents, teachers, bosses, law enforcement and everybody else that tries to control what I do in my adult life! My job is not to let that happen anymore, lol. So when I get a pop up that says "access denied" or "unauthorized access" etc., I am going to "win" or at least prove I am right!:heehee:

(I am unconsciously "recreating" my relationship with my parents or other authoritative figure...via transference and projection).

I could use the forum discourse as another example, using the "battles between factions" that was referenced. But I will leave that up to you.:thumbsup:

I am simply suggesting that we might all have unconscious hidden "agendas" lingering behind the points we make, defend and sometimes direct at our fellow members. Many of them are just indirect ("unconscious") battles of transference and projection...nothing as overtly specific as they might appear...

just my thoughts...stable or otherwise :heehee:

:love:

[Daintre]

After reading all of the posts, there is an underlying thought that gets but a quick mention here and that is the changing of the membership. The membership here is very fluid, maybe 3 years ago you fit in with most members but now some old members have dropped off due to a variety of reasons and we have new members come in and take their place. When this happens the dynamics of a section will change....hopefully grow.

We live in a new fast paced social media world now, instant communication. I know that our membership is all over the page with their abilities to adapt. This also creates a disconnect between age groups.

In order for this forum to still be relevant it has to be allowed to grow, unfortunately there will always be those who for there own reasons decide to not embrace growth and end up leaving the forum.

[PortiaHoney]

I used to come here a fair bit. But, when I started to express a viewpoint - not detrimental - just a viewpoint, from where I stand - I got criticised to the point of it making me question myself. Was I really that uncaring and one-eyed?

And this would happen time and time again. Yes, I would say it started about 6 months ago. Why would I come to a site that is, I was going to say hypocritical but that isn't right. I was trying to share my experience with others who may also be having a similar experience. Yet, there were those who were thinking I was pushing an agenda and castigated me for expressing my viewpoint. My viewpoint is just that - MY viewpoint. I don't try to force others to mimic my experience. I don't try to change anyone, except to show that there may be another way to look at what is happening for them.

Nowadays, I just briefly browse the forums, see if there is anything that takes my eye or that I may consider important, and mostly just leave without typing a single keystroke.

Yes, I am transgendered. But it seems many take issue with even the word and how it is used. I am a woman who used to be a male. Just the use of that word has raised the ire of others who identify as a man in a skirt and they see fit to chastise me for misusing the word. I will use the term for myself that I see fit to identify with. If you identify with it differently, that's ok with me. You will not find me lecturing you that I have the correct definition. And, no, I am not on a mission to convert as many "transgendered" people to being "transsexual". You choose what you want to identify with.

I have seen this site grow and grow and grow. I am quite happy to leave it to the "newbie's" or those "older hands" who are better equipped to deal with the nonsense. I will continue to drop in, but my input will remain very low key. I have no need of muck to be thrown in my direction, nor do I have the emotional resources to fight a losing battle.

[DonniDarkness]

In my time here i have seen countless people being helped and i have seen some mega bitch showdowns...i have also seen a few grow and become happy with themselves and who they are. So no matter what BS or muck throwing merriment takes place we have to step back and take the good with the bad. Almost all of the controversial threads i have read have ended up helping me to see, either a new point of view or to help see things for what they really are. People can be abrasive sometimes and knowing and understanding each other whole heartedly is the best defense against point of views that "rub you the wrong way".

Even among our little world of crossdressers there is a multitude of diversity. Personalities, style, outlook on life, age, gender identity, social dependencies.....the list goes on and on, so knowing that we have to understand we may not agree (and or like) what another has to say about any subject. The best that we can do for each other is just listen even if it is not what we think we need to hear.....

Think about all those who thought they were alone all of their lives and come here and find a bunch of argumentative drama queens. So you have heard me say it before and i will say it again "People come here for help, lets act like we want to help them"

And besides this site and the friends and conversations i have had here have helped me immensely....and i will continue to try and help others who might be in the same slump i was in when i came here....even if i have to dodge some muck once in awhile........

my thoughts,
-Donni-

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Who says we are not getting along? Seriously??

I have been in heated debates...i have watched heated debates.... i have made pointed comments, and i've been shot down by some comments.. there have been personal things thrown back and forth...
but the VAST majority of posts here are supportive and friendly of everyone..

when people push agendas (kind of what eluuzion points out) there is alot of blowback..
also i think one huge point that is missed if we all get along too much is that there really are important things to think about...and sometimes people post things that deserve to be challenged vigorously...

[Tina B.]

Disagreeing does not have to be disagreeable. We can have different additudes, iwth out being mean about it.
Tina B.

[Rianna Humble]

Within the past several months, I have witnessed a lot of dissension and disrespect on this forum regarding how we express our gifted gender identity.
...
We need to remember that we are all different from society's cisgendered standard and therefore we should be respectful of one-another.
...
As Rodney King once stated "Why Can't We All Just Get Along"?

These are some quite telling points and certainly gave me pause for thought. Not about how others behave on these forums - I cannot alter that - but whether I have lived up to my own standards.


Actually Jamie, I think that there is an overall general consensus to accept all that diversity here.
...
Some people have a hard time agreeing to disagree

I agree with Allie that taken as a whole, there does seem to be a consensus amongst the membership to accept the diversity in our midst.

Occasionally a debate will become robust and it is at times like that that I need to remember the importance of agreeing to disagree.


[COLOR=indigo]there are some topics that are just as you state "This is what I think and I won't accept any different"
...
In the end, many (at least I hope) come to realize that just because we joined this site, does not mean we are the same.

I believe that we should be trying to foster the attitude that says "This is what I believe, for what it's worth" rather than "This is what I think and I won't accept any different". And don't try to tell me I'm wrong :heehee:

Marissa makes a very important point: we are not all the same. Thank {deity} for that! Can you imagine what the world would be like if everyone was like me? :eek: I shudder to even think about it!

It brings me back to what I have said many times (and it is worth reminding myself), I need to concentrate on what unites us rather than on what divides us.


the VAST majority of posts here are supportive and friendly of everyone..
...
I think one huge point that is missed if we all get along too much is that there really are important things to think about...and sometimes people post things that deserve to be challenged vigorously...

I think that an important point for me to consider here is what is the nature of the support that I want to offer? It is not (as one particularly outspoken member has accused me repeatedly) support that is designed to prolong dysfuntional attitudes and actions.

Some of the best support that I have received on this site has challenged me very robustly to consider whether I am doing the right thing and how that will affect those I hold dear. These people liked me enough to say things I didn't want to hear but which needed to be said. I am grateful to those people even if their words stung a bit when I first read them.

The thing that concerns me most about a change that I think I am seeing on this site is when a GG comes along who is just coming to terms with the revelation that their SO is a cross-dresser or perhaps transsexual and who gets lambasted for not immediately encouraging the SO to do whatever they wish regardless of how it makes that GG partner feel.

Any cisgendered partner who joins this site is trying to understand and that marks them out as being an extraordinary person. The are not obliged to like everything that they see and hear about our community, but they deserve credit for trying to understand.

I often see CD's asking "why won't my SO accept me?", can we not extend to the SO's who come here the courtesy of accepting them?

[Daphne Renee]

Everyone has a their own opinion on things. I myself struggle to figure out why there are so many people (not here necessarily) cant seem to get along. In any group there are those who are just disagreeable for whatever reason. Not just cders ..watch the news sometime it will see alot of that. You can use political parties for example.. Even with the same party there are those who just dont agree with the others. It does seem like the most disagreeable ones make the most noise. Dont let the minority get you down. Just try to be the best person you can.

[Stephenie S]

Who says we are not getting along? Seriously??

I have been in heated debates...i have watched heated debates.... i have made pointed comments, and i've been shot down by some comments.. there have been personal things thrown back and forth...
but the VAST majority of posts here are supportive and friendly of everyone..

when people push agendas (kind of what eluuzion points out) there is alot of blowback..
also i think one huge point that is missed if we all get along too much is that there really are important things to think about...and sometimes people post things that deserve to be challenged vigorously...

***************************

I agree with Kaitlyn here. I think that the members of this forum DO get along. And quite well, too.

Do you want to go back to the days when the hotest topic was how many pink panties you had? Or maybe the "Oh, I feel so feminine in my garter belt I stole from my mother." posts? Everyone could just gush their approval of THOSE threads.

This is a remarkably well behaved forum. And, contrary to 3-4 years ago, discusses some truly interesting and sometimes controversial subjects. I have seen a welcome maturity over the years.

S

[Jenny Gurl]

Through the ups and downs of the times, this is the best CD site on the net. It is the best because of the people who post here. We may have a tif every now and then, but I have also seen some very mature subjects discussed. I have learned so much from the people on this site. Thanks to all who share. A friend in a similar group once said "the more we share of ourselves the more we learn". I believe we have some of the most knowledgeable cross dressers in the world here. A doctor reads it from a book. Some of these ladies have lived it for a lifetime and I value their opinions as much as a doctor who has studied it.

[TGMarla]

We should all remember that there is something, common or unique, inside of us all that brought us to this place to begin with. I don't care if you're a guy presenting as a guy who just likes wearing skirts, or whether you try to fully emulate women, or you're completely transexual, we all came here with something in common.

Rachel, I miss your posts. I'd miss them more if you completely went away.

I like it here, and that doesn't matter whether new members are way different from me or not. Someone I once knew once said to me and my wife, "If you two were exactly the same, one of you wouldn't be necessary." That applies to diverse forums like this one, too.

I go by Marla on this forum. I am a crossdresser. I am TG. On some level, I have something in common with every single person on this forum. If you're here, you either like to crossdress, you're transgendered in some way, you admire people like that, or you know or love someone who is like that. And no matter what your approach to this broad topic is, your input adds to the diversity of ideas and opinions that are expressed on these boards.

I, for one, welcome it.

(Okay, that Green Bay Packers and/or Detroit Red wings stuff at the bottom of Karren's posts is a little annoying! LOL!)

Oh...and Reine? What color panties are you wearing? (Kidding....kidding.....!)

[ReineD]

I used to come here a fair bit. But, when I started to express a viewpoint - not detrimental - just a viewpoint, from where I stand - I got criticised to the point of it making me question myself. Was I really that uncaring and one-eyed?

there were those who were thinking I was pushing an agenda and castigated me for expressing my viewpoint.

Yes, I am transgendered. I am a woman who used to be a male. Just the use of that word has raised the ire of others who identify as a man in a skirt and they see fit to chastise me for misusing the word.

At first I didn't understand why you felt castigated for having realized a deeper feminine identity. But then I read your last comment, and the argument was over the definition of a word?

Lol. You shouldn't leave for that. Everyone has their own definition for the term "transgender", in this forum, on individual blogs, on educational sites, and depending on whether they crossdress or are transsexuals. People do bicker about definitions, no matter where you are. Now if you said that people stopped relating to you because you no longer feel you are a CDer, then I would say that you haven't found the right people here to hang out with, since from my vantage point there are hundreds of members who feel just like you do. :)

Maybe you just felt you didn't need so many answers any more, and you didn't have such a strong desire to be here any more. Maybe you just moved on, like my SO.

[Frédérique]

About a month ago, I sent a PM to another member to explain my frustrations of how the tone of the site has changed in past 6 months..

Really? I’ve been active here for nearly two years, and I haven’t noticed anything different, except that certain members come and go, and others take their place, over and over (as Jenni Y alluded to). This helps me immensely, because I can review topics I’ve already discussed ad nauseum and try something new! The “tone” you speak of is largely chimerical in nature...


A few other notes, I feel as if we don't really take into account the whole OP either. There has been many posts started in which they say A, B & C, and the following posts mention A & B and attack the OP for forgetting point C. If the last poster would have read the whole OP they would have seen C.

All the more reason to be clear and concise in the OP, anticipating the inevitable confusion that comes along. I’m no different from anyone else – I’ll see a few words in a sentence, floating in a lengthy OP, and I’ll burst into wordiness that is at odds with the author’s intentions. If I go too far, I sincerely apologize, but sometimes a topic will morph into something else entirely – for this reason I stick with the OP and try to make meaningful, not argumentative, contributions...


People do bicker about definitions, no matter where you are.

And there are definitions aplenty for crossdressers to discuss! If the topics are not to my liking, I just wait a day or two for something I can write about, definitions notwithstanding. The longer you’re here, the more you will observe a certain stubbornness of opinion among the membership, but I don’t think it’s anything to be concerned about – if there was nothing to discuss, there would be no forum, and, it follows, you wouldn’t learn something new about crossdressing...
:battingeyelashes:

[KellyCD]

I've been here for a few years, though I don't post much mainly because I'm thoroughly disgusted with some of the people and posts here. This forum goes through certain "trends" and its those times I just lurk.

But then again what do I know, I'm just a "religious fanatic" anyway.

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Personally, I think that to promote the posting of topics and receive many replies, there needs to be a number of opinions that create debate/chat in order to understand the wide range of opinions that help to answer a topic and allow the topic to cover more so a thorough understanding can promote us all to see other peoples views, not necessarily just our own. I know sometimes I may get criticized for a reply, I just cool it for a few days and then come back with an open mind and I see why I was criticized, understand and continue on with reading topics. If we all like one type of thing, there would be no need for change and stagnation sours thoughts. There are diplomatic ways to criticize and that creates more thought.
I am here to understand myself, my emotional roller coaster and seek help in make-up, fashion etc. One thing I love about here is we can have a say, and it does not need be sexual related.
I may not agree with all that is written, but it certainly allows me to see others ideas and hence get a better understanding on how to handle those difficult situations.
I feel it a very hard thing for us all to agree, pander others to their ideas and separate ourselves from our own ideas in order to get along with others.
I am here because I differ from my social community, I have ideas and I even act different to them BUT I do get along with them...so far. Maybe why I am here chatting and not at the pub or club chatting.

[Marissa]

**Quote modified**


Really? I’ve been active here for nearly two years, and I haven’t noticed anything different, except that certain members come and go, and others take their place, over and over (as Jenni Y alluded to). This helps me immensely, because I can review topics I’ve already discussed ad nauseum and try something new! The “tone” you speak of is largely chimerical in nature...

:heehee: Each time you post something, Frederique, I have to reach for good old Webster to understand..only made it through the 5th grade :D

Anyway.. It was just my opinion and thoughts..not all would agree. It just seemed like more members (old and new) were becoming hardheaded or uncaring to others..in a way it reminded me of how a 16 or 17 year old male would act..like they have all the answers and don't need anyone telling them anything and don't have to answer to anyone..okay..again, that is my view.

We don't have to agree on here..but respect should be expected.

And more so...not all of us have to 'accept ourselves' :D In a way..we have..as crossdressers..even if a fetish..