Helen's SO Revelation Strategy

[Helen Grandeis]

Had my long awaited session with our family psychologist regarding advisability of revealing to SO. He sees several different possible negative reactions:
1. Your gay.
2. You want me to participate in a lesbian relationship.
3. Helen is going to ####!
4. If you go to #### then I will be alone for all eternity.
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[VioletJourney]

He quotes Freud in saying that happiness can only exist when the inside is the same as the outside.
I wouldn't make too much of that part. Freud was a quack.



There is an equal total possibility of a acceptable reaction of at least - "I know, I don't like it, Be discrete, Never show me! The Doctor (only one heart) cautions that it will be best to go slow and feel her out. 1 and 2 are demonstrably refutable; however, delving into the true believer depths of her mind regarding 3 and 4 is hard to do.
If you ask any theologian or bible scholar they could tell you that 3 and 4 are refutable as well. The bible verses that deal with crossdressing were never intended to apply to all Christians, just the original Hebrew culture.

[Kate Lynn]

Freud :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::r ofl::rofl::rofl:

[Helen Grandeis]

Thank you for your replys
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He was just quoting "Freude" as an amusing side light.

[Helen Grandeis]

After my alter ego's morning workout and shower, I told my SO about the Tria Laser device. She had noticed after more than two months that I had once again shaved my chest and did not like the chest stuble that apparently is worse than facial stuble. I explained that my chest would be smooth and that I wanted to be be smooth. She attributed this to Beauty and the Geek - a reality show where all the geek males got their chests waxed halfway through the episodes. I did not contradict this although I had been shaving my legs almost continually since 2001. She has seemed almost oblivious to my shaving my legs over these past ten years.
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Her reaction to the Tria and the prospect of a bare bodied husband was one of quiet bemused disappointment. I gave a complete explanation of the Tria. I then proceded to spend 30-40 minutes treating my left upper leg (2nd quadrant) in her presence on the master bed. She has blonde arm air and her womanly facial hair is also blonde so the Tria won't work there; however, I will offer to do her underarms in the future.
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She expressed her disappointment by saying that she liked my chest hair and she loves her manly man. My reply was that I am her manly, man and that I loved her - my girly girl. :)
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Analysis: My Doctor is right. Slow and steady wins the race. I have the following major advances.
1. 30-90 minutes per day of time together that I am not sequestered in Helen's realm.
2. A quiet resigned reaction totally free of anger - though she is not pleased.:thumbsup:
3. No comment on using part of my inherritance from my dad to buy the Tria ($500).
4. Pleasant interaction subsequently.
---
Big Hugs for all my Friends
Helen

[JenniferR771]

Good going, Helen. I think I agree, take it slow. But its a big leap from shaving your chest to wearing a bra and a dress. Keep you relationship strong and the shock will not be as bad. She will want to set ground rules after few days of thinking about it--as the reality sets in. Give her support--its not always all about you. Understand her point of view. You will be fine.

[Babeba]

I think you might do well to tell her relatively soon, before doing too many more feminisation things. She might be getting perplexed at all this, and having a clear idea about what the boundaries of what you will be getting to (until she is fully comfortable with things, which could take several years) will probably be simpler for her than a bunch of alarming changes to her manly-man husband she loves with no idea where it is going to. It will also be good for you to talk to her about what will make sure that SHE keeps happy in this marriage; I know it's easy to get carried away and focus on Helen, but your wife is a big part of your life, too. Hopefully you will be able to keep both her and Helen in your life together.

Good luck! And don't forget to let her know she can join us at FAB for support from other SOs!

[Joanagreenleaf]

Your counselor listed only four reactions? What about all the other likely outcomes?

5) You lied to me all along?

6) I'm leaving.

7.) This is not what I want.

8.) It's not "me or her"; it's we get divorced!

9.) etc.

Your current path of hinting about and sneaking about is going to likely be seen as deceit and no matter "how much she loves you" she's going to question who you are... And, who she is... And what's wrong with the picture.

Nothing new here, that I can see. It's all happened before.

You may wind up better off after the breakup due to your current counseling and experimenting, but it's no more likely you and she will be together in the future because it's a very one-sided conversation and deliberately false conversation you're spouting around her.

Seen it before. Not part of a partnership. What you are doing is never just about you; it's about the both of you - and you're not working this issue together.

Stop messing about.

Ask her for help and input with your "interests" before you've gone so far on your own that she can't go with you...

That is what you want, right? Her with you?

[Helen Grandeis]

I did come out to my wife about a week and a half ago. She took it very badly; however there is hope for our staying together. Helen may be no more than a memory. I am working this out in my mind. What has really come out is how much she really loves me. Although, her psychological view is buried in the middle ages. She only screamed at me and pounded her fists on my chest once. She has stopped calling us perverts. Our next therapy session is on July 2. The therapist is very pro Helen, pro dressing. Although the therapist is very well regarded by my wife, the Rhetorical barrier of perversion, my use of willpower and eternal damnation of my soul stops any meaningful discussion.
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Her biggest issue-besides my eternal soul-was the violation of my having worn her clothing. I threw out every thing that was impacted and posted a damaged clothing bond.
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Good luck to all
Helen

[Stephenie S]

Dear Helen,

I so wish I could agree, but I can't. I see NO likely hood of your staying together at all.

You can't give this up. You know this. It won't go away on it's own. It won't go away period. You committed one HUGE sin. You wore her clothes. That is such a no-no. I too would throw away anything of mine that you wore. Money is not gonna get you out of that one. Then there is this eternal soul thing. It's pretty unlikely you will lose your eternal soul over what you wear, or what ends up between your legs. God is interested in what's in your heart, not what you wear or what gender you are. I suspect that your eternal soul is safe.

But this is not your wife's view at all. She has been prety clear about what she wants. She wants her MAN. Her man, please. That's what she wants. It's hard to blame her, right? That's who she married. That's who she planned to live out her life with. Her man. Since that's not what you have in mind at all, you guys should start planning a separation while you are still talking to each other.

Actually, I suspect that it's her future together with you that she is really worried about rather than your eternal damnation. The picture of the two of you, after retirement, running hand in hand down the long Caribbean beach together into the sunset. That's what has gone forever. It's gone. It will never happen now, and she knows it.

Say goodbye, dear, and get on with your life.

Stephie

[Helen Grandeis]

Thank-you, Stephanie, for your reply. Its a little more complicated than that. She needs to get the mental image (never saw Helen) of me in a dress out of her head.
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Actually I was planning an almost total surrender and a 95% purge. I will try to be clearer when I get some time. I am so relieved by the reveal. The weight off my shoulders is incredible. Inspite of her calling me a pervert, I have been touched by her profound love for me.
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But then I actually read what you said.... As much fun as Helen has had being out and about, Helen's alter ego likes his life too! He likes girls. I had reached a cross roads in my life. I was unable to go further in my dressed adventures without telling my wife. Simultaneously, every other aspect of my life was at risk-for what-so I can pretend I am a girl?
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Somewhere is an Helen MDA. It is yet to be seen whether I can salvage this MDA out of whatever ultimatum. There are plenty of CDs who live in an world of MDA rather than opulent CD indulgence. These people never get out.
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My wife either loves me enough to get past this or she is terrified of being 63 years old and in uncertain health alone. Maybe you're right and we are doomed.

It is not a good place. But it is not a hopeless place either.

[Mandy Marie]

Wishing you strength and understanding in what must be a very difficult time.

Mandy Marie

[Helen Grandeis]

There was a Star Trek TNG episode where an omnipotent being had masqueraded as a human for 80 years. He took a human wife - he loved her dearly! When the evil, mortal aliens attacked, she joined the resistance despite his unsubstantiated assurances that she would be okay with him. She was killed.
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So great was his rage that with his full power he reached out and killed every meber of this alien race, no matter where in the galaxy they were. A total of 56 billion souls.
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Such is the level of my wife's rage with my dressing.
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Earlier today we had the third counseling session (my reveal was at session 1). I actually thought we had a framework that I could live with; however, it was just a case that she had not listened to what I said in session 2. Her response was that I had not listened to her in session 1.
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Her position is that there may not be any crossdressing of any kind in my life. This applies to all places I might be. I must not own any womens clothing nor may I espouse the opinion that I am a crossdresser.
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You see it is all a matter of choice

[Sue101]

Helen

I cringed when I read your posts. It is a hard enough battle to fight when your wife is a rational person but when she believes you are going to hell then you are literally doomed. For her to, in any shape of form, accept or tolerate your crosdressing would be a sin on her part. Her salvation is to save you from hell. Not only will she never accept your dressing but she will endeavour to convince you to see the errors of your ways and to give up entirely.

Sorry to be so gloomy but I think you did this for the wrong reasons ie to take the weight off your shoulders and unburden your secret but doing so has placed an impossible burden on her due to her beliefs. At her age she may decide to stick around but she will never love you the same way again.

[Inna]

Helen baby, I too read and cringed while your story unfolded in front of my reading eyes. I am no stranger to loss of love I once considered such but learned that what we often call love is just a comfortable compatibility balanced on a thin wire.

Selfishness as we understand is bad and being selfless we tend to elevate to the highest degree making sacrifices in the name of such "unfulfilled love"

I have been to the edge of this world, I stared abyss in the eye, feeling I shall never forget of finality and calm that came with it. But it wasn't mine to take, images of my beautiful son kept on projecting in my head as I stood there ready to go. The love I felt from this little boy was so tremendous that I knew then that he has told me "don't go"

Since then I have revealed my bit more shocking revelation of being a Transsexual to the whole world and lost the once thought to be loving to the darkness of guilt and sorrow. But then I have experienced love I could not believe existed. Immaculate, unconditional love through which all that stood by me, through the valley of death, took me as I am, the soul of a woman and body of man.

To love one another, we must first be selfish enough to allow love to penetrate our darkened hearts. Through truth, absolute truth, the possibility of love is inevitable but pain follows every step of the way as crust of guilt and regret falls to the ground allowing the true self to shine through for the first time.

You must be able to let your wife go, and she must do the same if she truly want to save you. But if she wants to keep you in line to protect from eternal damnation, in fact she shall condemn you to just that by stifling and killing your soul in the process. She thinks she is doing gods work, LET GOD BE GOD and LOVE BE LOVE, unconditional and immaculate.

I give you all the love which flows through my meager soul, I am not an owner but simple vessel through which I pray such love shall keep on flowing, and hope and pray that you and your wife will see the light of truth, there is only one truth, and deep in your hearts you know of it.

[Helen Grandeis]

My SO and I drove to the CD-TG monthly meeting and I unloaded the whole of my existence as Helen. It was nice to see everyone there mostly en drab. The drive up and back was exceptionally pleasant and there was no gloating. My wife's love for me is able to shine through her unfortunate disgust for my cross-dressing.
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Only my Avatar remains safe. I was clear that I did not want to talk about CD with her since once we pierce the dermis and epidermis of her civility - she really doesn't want to talk or hear about it. She tried to compare CD with alcoholism and I pushed back hard. I have solidly maintained that I have done nothing morally or religiously wrong and my only crime (besides the secret itself and wearing her clothes!!!:):):)) was doing something that she found revolting. I am willing to devote myself to the principle of a life where she sees no evidence of CD. I will miss the public excursions (another casualty). However, she has unknowingly left me a tiny sliver of existence as Helen that will serve as a minimum daily or weekly allowance. I also have a great CD friendly mental health professional to talk to as needed.
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There are some happy patawans in the furniture city tonight. CD.com is still not on her radar and even if it is it is not negotiable. I appreciate all your friendship and support - particularly the sisters in the furniture city.
---
Many Hugs
Helen
Returning to Stasis
Until the next ZPM changeout.

[Sara Jessica]

Your tale reads kind of like a "what not to do" when it comes to coming out to a spouse...and then what not to do when presented with an ultimatum.

I'm thinking you'll last somewhere between 3 days and 3 months. Best of luck to ya.

[GG Kathy]

Helen i am so sorry that your SO is not supportive. I hope you can both find happiness and hopefully in time she will see that you love her, and remeber she fell in love with a person not a gender.

[Torrey]

Helen-

My heart goes out to you. From what I have read & slightly experienced, purges only come back stronger. Mine lasted almost twenty years. I don't have any sage advice, though I wish i did. I can only say I feel for your situation. I'm glad my SO found out in her own way, because I don't know if I could have told her. It sounds as though you are keeping your head up, at the very least, and that is good. Be true to yourself.

Hugs,
Torrey

[ReineD]

I'm sorry for what you're going through, Helen. :sad:

I won't be so presumptuous as to suggest leaving your marriage, or staying. You and your wife are the only persons who can determine what is best, but I do wish you both the best possible outcome. :hugs:

[Eryn]

I am so sorry to read your story. Mistakes were made on both sides but the sad thing in my perception is that your wife loves you less than she loves that book that tells her that CDing will lead to H***. Ultimatums are not the stuff of a successful marriage.

[kimdl93]

Also very sorry to read your story. What a difficult journey you have been on!

You, of course, have to make your own choices and adjust as well as you can to the situation at hand. I wish you te best.

For the rest of us, and particularly those new to relationships - the lesson is come out early and completely. Its so difficult and sometimes impossible for some partners to accept, while others can. The key is to give your SO the choice early, so that if its not for her, each of you can pursue other options.

[JenniferR771]

So good to finally meet you in person, Helen(brief). Your situation engenders anguish, hurt and frustration on both sides. However, be patient. You love her and she loves you. The shock will wear off. You are the same wonderful person she married. And it is perfectly natural to hide something from a person who may react with intolerance. It took a lot of courage and honesty to reveal the facts. You did because you trusted her integrity. Give it time.

So what if I had to look up ZPM and padawan on Google--I am trying to understand.

Rhonda and others appreciated some new additions to their closets.

[Inna]

There is a saying I grew found of "truth will set you free" but what's not said is that truth will set everyone around you, free, as long as they will choose to follow the truth. I so sincerely hope your wife sees the wisdom and beauty in your reveal. Your world despite the set back just become more beautiful because truth was spoken, but as I found out only too true, pain always follows, it is a inevitable aftershock of truth, as though it reminds us to keep the truth in our hearts at all times to avoid pain. Isn't this divine design "awesome"

[GingerLeigh]

I have been thinking of telling my SO recently. I've always been a proponent for not telling. I felt that "ignorance is bliss" applied and I still think that. I felt I was the only one to gain anything if I told her. I'd unload my guilt onto her, and now she would shoulder that burden. How selfish of me, no? However, my current physical well being is undermined by my mental health due to anxiety and guilt. My unraveling has been rather public and embarrassing. In essence, keeping this secret is slowly killing me and I need to act before I either have a bloody stroke, or go to pieces completely. I need to see a therapist, but I cannot do it incognito. I need my wife on board for that. It now has gone from "taking it to my grave" to "taking it to an early grave". So what's better? Dead and manly, or alive and deemed unfit to be a man? I'm not sure what to make of your story of coming out. I certainly didn't see it as a success story. Frankly it scares me, but I need to see the good and bad. This will be the toughest decision I will ever make so I don't take it lightly. I'm scared out of my mind. Your story scares me, and I wish the two of you the best of luck! I hope everything turns out for the better. I'm sure eventually it will. I hope.

Ginger

[Eryn]

...I felt I was the only one to gain anything if I told her. I'd unload my guilt onto her, and now she would shoulder that burden. How selfish of me, no? However, my current physical well being is undermined by my mental health due to anxiety and guilt. My unraveling has been rather public and embarrassing. In essence, keeping this secret is slowly killing me and I need to act before I either have a bloody stroke, or go to pieces completely. I need to see a therapist, but I cannot do it incognito. I need my wife on board for that. It now has gone from "taking it to my grave" to "taking it to an early grave". So what's better? Dead and manly, or alive and deemed unfit to be a man?...

Ginger, you are exactly where I was before my wife and I had "the talk." Not telling _is_ a burden on your wife because she has to deal with your issues while not knowing the cause behind them and having you repeatedly refuse to discuss them with her. What a helpless feeling that must be.

[Helen Grandeis]

My wife claims that I am much nicer to her since I told her. I believe it because I made a determination, pre-reveal, to try to be a value added husband and make a conscious effort to show consideration and respect at all times. For what ever reason she has tagged "the secret" as responsible subconsciously for my perceived personality liabilities.
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In terms of my poor reveal and my poor reaction to an ultimatum, my reveal itself was given good grades by our locally esteemed counselor. Unfortunately, there were other issues that initiated the counseling session - not that an otherwise clean slate would have helped.
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In terms of ultimatum response, I give myself a failing grade. If I was good at negotiation my life would have taken a much different path. You are what you are.

[MsGreen]

Wishing you the best in these trying times. Glad to hear the positives. So complicated when both your moral convictions are at odds.

[Sara Jessica]

In terms of my poor reveal and my poor reaction to an ultimatum, my reveal itself was given good grades by our locally esteemed counselor. Unfortunately, there were other issues that initiated the counseling session - not that an otherwise clean slate would have helped.

It is often said that when this TG thing drops a bomb on a relationship, there are other things in play. In other words, rarely is it the reveal of TG alone that has such a dramatic negative impact on relationships.

That said, your local esteemed counselor gets an "F" in my book. While he recognized some of the other variables (ie - the clear damnation implications identified in your opening post of this thread), he failed you in steering things forward towards the reveal. Punching through the religious ramifications is much deeper in many respects than hoping that a SO of umpteen years can come to terms with a TG reveal.


In terms of ultimatum response, I give myself a failing grade. If I was good at negotiation my life would have taken a much different path. You are what you are.

Your life is what it is, we all make choices to zig where we could have zagged. The ultimatum part is simply another change of direction for you which for better or worse, you have to live with from here on out. But as you said in a subsequent post...

"You see it is all a matter of choice."

If you truly believe this, you are one of the few who have a chance to succeed in the face of such an ultimatum. Again, good luck.

[kimdl93]

My wife claims that I am much nicer to her since I told her... For what ever reason she has tagged "the secret" as responsible subconsciously for my perceived personality liabilities..
.

We all have flaws and inadequacies. I don't think its fair to be graded by an SO and I'd strongly disagree that your "secret" was responsible for any of your's. If the subject comes up, perhaps you might suggest that lifelong pressures of hiding and denying oneself may have aggravated other issues, and you're "nicer" because that pressure has been relieved by openness and honesty.

[kitchenette]

Good for you for telling your wife. My SO told me about his femme side slowly over the course of 6 months when we first got together. 4 years later, it's still incredibly challenging for both of us, to open our hearts and minds to his femme side. There are ups and downs. There are still secrets kept, despite the big one being out in the open. I vascillate from day to day. He can't seem to keep (very modest) boundaries that I set. We love each other immensely and I hope we will continue to do so. It's amazing that someone who is going through the pain that she must be feeling to have the courage to go to a CDTG group with you. I hope you have been able to tell her that.

My advice is don't make any hasty decisions and try to respect her boundaries. Listen to her. This isn't something she will work through in a month or two. Maybe in a year or two, with a lot of love and mutual respect.

Good luck!

[Helen Grandeis]

I was being sarcastic when I talked about self control although I have gone many years at a time without any dressing activities.
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As for the doctor, it was my mistake to bring up cross dressing at all on top of the other issues. It will take years to straighten this out. I think the tiny sliver of an existence that she has unknowingly left me is going to be enough to ensure survival.
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As for the doctor, we both like him and respect him. There is only so much a therapist can do and beyond that it is up to us. Thank-you for taking the time to comment.

[celeste26]

There is no substitute for telling before marriage. Only then can a potential spouse freely make a choice to enter into a relationship or not. Could have spared both of you much emotional pain and even gotten a better relationship in the process when you find one who can help out instead of be shocked 19 years later.

[Helen Grandeis]

Very true! 27 years! I think we will actually make it. I wasn't dressing back then. Thank-you for the post.
Helen

[Eryn]

There is no substitute for telling before marriage. Only then can a potential spouse freely make a choice to enter into a relationship or not. Could have spared both of you much emotional pain and even gotten a better relationship in the process when you find one who can help out instead of be shocked 19 years later.

That's fine, but it doesn't cover the common situation of CDing either not occuring or not being understood by the CDer until decades into the marriage.

[Helen Grandeis]

Thank-you. It was only about ten years ago that I really engaged in ernest and only in the last six months that I ventured into outerwear and actually went out on a business trip.
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My wife is treating me very nicely. Mutually satisfying intimacy resumed about two weeks after reveal. I has carte blanc to spend on some other hobby. This is truly a long term voyage.
-
Helen

[JenniferR771]

My big reveal came at about 25 years after marriage. Acidentally--or maybe--I wanted it to happen. Now 10 years later, she is still uncomfortable with my cding. Not accepting--not understanding--but OK if I go to support group. And she frequently checks my computer history. She sees the subject matter titles of the posts in my history file--a truncated view of us cds--strange view. Although she insists that I close the site whenever she comes into the room--she expects me to have it open often. And she at times reads a few lines. Baby steps. Tiny steps. I am trying to be nice to her.

[Inna]

I sympathize and feel for the ones who try so hard to preserve love at any cost, but tell me, and this is going to be harsh (sorry if I am out of line) is this the love you are fighting for?

Sounds to me we often, rather almost always experience burden, guilt, pain somewhere along the journey of life. This imprints memories which then become a blueprint of what not to do, and we strive so hard to be accepted no matter the personal cost. Love for the country, for which the slogan tells you "IT is ok to die for", I am sorry but there is nothing worth dying for, to die is to terminate this wonderful journey we are on full of mesmerizing and fulfilling miracles we so often fail to see. We are ready though to sacrifice our life to fight evil but know very well the only way to put evil down is to use evil of our own.

We sacrifice for the loved ones, but should we, if they are truly loved ones would they ask us to sacrifice for them?

And what do we do so wrong and atrocious that calls for our restrain, put on cloth of a different color, paint our faces and feel fantastically our selves. So that is this evil, the life destroying, all morbid force of darkness that they, the loving ones try so hard to save us from.

No, they are trying to keep their facade intact from society, friends, and their own misconception about love and reality. How can they share their den with this freaky creature what will the neighbors say? How will I show my face out in the public?

This is no love but comfortable imprisonment, a long leash to make the dog feel the freedom, Haaaaaaaa, just a bigger cage with pretty designs woven into steel bars so to make this experience feel more home.

Love, what a misunderstood word, love is waking up in the morning and feeling you cant wait to see the miracles you will experience. Love is a smile from another, no conditions nor demands, just a beautiful smile. Love is to embrace with your heart even though you mind tells you otherwise. Love is to share in every experience. Love is truth, and lastly love isn't ours, isn't a force we suddenly posses but gift which flows through us to do good, to do all those things that make us that much closer to everyone else, EVERYONE!

[Helen Grandeis]

Thank-you, Alexia, for your posts. Your Avatar picture is so beautiful.

[Helen Grandeis]

Things keep going downhill. I told one other person. A woman at church who received ~3 pairs of shoes from my purge. My wife is in a panic about it. The woman sat behind her at church. The woman is absolutely trust worthy; however my CD is ultimately shameful for my wife. Another example of my poor judgement.

[GingerLeigh]

Things keep going downhill. I told one other person. A woman at church who received ~3 pairs of shoes from my purge. My wife is in a panic about it. The woman sat behind her at church. The woman is absolutely trust worthy; however my CD is ultimately shameful for my wife. Another example of my poor judgement.


D'OH! What on Earth possessed you to tell one of your fellow parishioners? My wife would hate my CDing, but would especially hate me being public about it. YIKES! Deep doo-doo!

[JenniferR771]

Yes, what on earth? Although...I have done the exact same thing. My wife doesn't want anyone else to know. I guess she considers it humiliating to be married to a cd. Something like that. Not sure as this discussion never gets far with out some angry shouting. I keep telling people. Clerks at the thrift store and more. Perhaps it puts pressure on her to hear other people accept--when she doesn't. But of course cding is rather close to home when you live with one. Not the same as casual acceptance. It takes time--baby steps.

[Kaz]

I just want to say that this has been a tough thread to read and I know we all feel for Helen. There are lots of ways to try and rationalise what goes on with this stuff. I watched a DVD last night of a film that came out a while back.. District 9. It is sci-fi, but the premise is the same... Over a reasonably long life so far I have found unqualified acceptance is a good road to take with people. Yeah, there are bad guys, but suprisingly not that many. What tends to screw people up is some idea of a moral high ground that says that "I am right and you are not". Well... in my humble experience, there are no right answers but lots of wrong ones.

So Helen, just hang in there and I hope it works out for you... as Schiller (German philosopher) once said, "against stupidity the Gods themselves labour in vain".

[docrobbysherry]

I DON'T see this story as one of a tragic CD with an un accepting SO. It seems Helen simply may have picked the wrong wife. He KNEW how rigid and un accepting a person she was, but he married her anyway! Of course, he may have been of similar ilk at that time.

Because I've been married and divorced, (which had nothing to do with CDing), I see it more of a WARNING to those young CD/TGs out there. Not to pick rigid, self rightious, overly "moral", SOs. And, be aware that PEOPLE CHANGE over time. She will and so will U!

Unfortunately, I fear the young folks who mite benefit the most from this thread will scroll rite past it!

[Inna]

Life unfolds in mysterious ways, Helen you have done what your heart told you to do! Often we fail to see the wisdom of our actions but if they are with good intention and peace in our hearts then these decisions are just right. I believe you are doing just fine, but that is not to say that perhaps more pain is on your path. Be strong in the belief that truth will surely set us ALL free, what that statement does not promise is that it will be easy, in fact, it won't I assure you of that. Ultimately truth leads to love, of one self and through which ability to love everyone else. Such love is absent when our hearts are heavy with guilt and sorrow.

One step at the time Helen, but you are doing just fine.
Love, Inna.

[kimdl93]

Things keep going downhill. I told one other person. A woman at church who received ~3 pairs of shoes from my purge. My wife is in a panic about it. The woman sat behind her at church. The woman is absolutely trust worthy; however my CD is ultimately shameful for my wife. Another example of my poor judgement.

I think you're beating yourself up way too much, Helen. The purge aside, your wife's fears are more a reflection of her own demons that anything you have done. The fact is that a woman got some shoes from your stash. I don't imagine you went to the church women's group with a trash bag full of clothes and announced you were purging - so come and get it. However she got them, I presume she liked them and is appreciative.

Your wife needs to start assessing things realistically, and stop catastrophizing. Yes, there's a chance there you could suffer social or possibly even economic harm if your secret becomes know to the wrong individuals, but the odds are that most people won't really care one way or another and some may be genuinely sympathetic. She might also consider what her prohibitive attitude is doing to you. I mean, you are beating yourself up constantly for the lack of her acceptance.

Honestly, I think you and your wife need to seek counseling so that both of you can come to grips with the reality of cross dressing and its place within your lives.

[ReineD]

Well, the only downside to having told the woman at Church is not knowing whether she will keep your confidence. Even though you believe her to be trusworthy, is there a possibility this woman will start the gossip mill by telling just one person who might not be so trustworthy?

If the knowledge should make the rounds, people can be petty or bored and even though privately they may not care either way since their ties to you may be distant, it is the rare person that doesn't indulge in juicy gossip. I can understand your wife's POV if she doesn't want to be the subject of other people's conversations.

That said, you may well be ready to come out to everyone and if this is the case then it doesn't matter what this woman does. But, something like this I think is best discussed with a partner first since if the knowledge does get around it will have an impact on your social lives. You may decide that none of this matters to you any more and this is your prerogative. If your wife feels differently though, the two of you are in for serious decision making.

You mentioned your wife being ashamed. She may well be, but I want to say that I fully support my SO, we go out often together although not in our own back yards, and I am not ashamed. But at the same time I am well aware of the negative ways that people close to me, like my sons, will look at this and if they knew it would cause a distance between them and my SO that neither of us wish to happen.

[Helen Grandeis]

:straightface:My confidant is a person of unusual depth and understanding. She understands that I am not gay but, she has several gay friends and a gay sibling-in-law. She is not Molly Mormon and is very accepting of LGBT people. Her respect for me has not diminished as a result of this reveal. My wife and I have know her since she was a teenager (more than 16 years). We paid for her post wedding dinner. The transfer of these two pair of shoes was done quietly with great discretion - but never-the-less it was poor judgment to tell her. Sitting next to their family just set my wife into need to run away (and she couldn't).
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Now things are on the cusp of out of control - like a saddle point in space. My wife now expects a cascade outing to occur and demands that we talk to clergy. I would rather that she talk to the confidant first and perhaps get a feeling of comfort with the substantial nature of her character.
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I have jumped off the edge of the Grand Canyon with my hang glider. Since I am not "Aang", I am committed to a journey pulled by gravity and swept by the currents. I must hang on tight, yet be nimble to respond to the subtle changes in the air on my cheeks.
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Thank-you for your post
Helen

[kimdl93]

Again, I think you're beating yourself up for no real good reason. You've established that the lady in question is trust worthy and understanding. Your wife certainly knows this as well. So, her reaction, though understandable, is frankly over the top.

I don't think a clergyman/woman is the appropriate next step for you and your wife. I would seriously advise counseling from a competent professional. And when I say competent, I mean one who would not take sides - but help you both work through the realities of your lives, individually and as a couple.

[Helen Grandeis]

Not only is counseling in progress, the reveal took place in his office. He is very fair and has both our trust. My wife maybe over the top - but she loves me and I am cautiously optimistic. I would choose my clergy carefully and pick a regional person who really likes me rather than our local person who seems to tolerate me. Thank-you for your replies.
Helen

[Helen Grandeis]

Things are going well today. An excellent evening last night. I bought 100 pounds of blueberries and put 80 in the freezer with the other 180. Was greeted with a nice smile when my wife came home. Made the arrangements for my wife to meet the other person I confided in. Hopefully I stop making messes faster than I can clean them up.

[Momarie]

Are you Mormon? LDS?

This must be so difficult for you and your wife.

[Eryn]

Enjoy the small victories.

Great that your wife will meet your confidante.

I'm a bit leery of clergy involvement unless the church is really liberal. Be careful!

[JenniferR771]

No more reveals for a while. Do you live near a blueberry farm? LOL! Helped a cd friend of mine. Blueberries are a good idea, Helen. Delicious; I love 'em. But just how many can she eat? Give her time to adjust. Conservative churches may not understand. You are being honest with her and taking all the usual flak, and more. I respect your strength.

[Helen Grandeis]

Had a great private therapy session today solo en drab-of course. The Dr is sooo cool:):). I showed him the site and my reveal posts. We laughed at my predicament and agreed that I was done talking about CD in the joint sessions. It does nothing but provoke a negative reaction even when she sincerely asks about my feelings or how dressing makes me feel. Either immediately or later - slam!
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Otherwise things are going great very pleasant with gentle interaction and nice conversation on all other topics. Before the reveal, I committed to being a value added husband and take on-board all valid previous criticisms. That is working very well. I go out to the driveway to greet her every day I get home first. I always get a sparkling smile and a nice little kiss!
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I am eager to emerge from the crisis and land on my trademark clad feet again!!

[docrobbysherry]

Interesting, Helen. Your sessions sound similar to mine! When talking about HER issues with ME, she was all over agreeing with our counselor on the changes I needed to make. Once we finished with that, we started dealing with MY issues with HER! And, the changes SHE needed to make!

That immediately ended our joint counseling and soon after, our marriage! Hopefully, you'll have better luck?

[Helen Grandeis]

Still too early for me to tell how the end will work out. Other than her no prisoners-scorched earth approach to my CD, she is very nice and loving. Thank-you for your replies.
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SO has lost interest in CD (for now). She didn't try to meet with confidant. We went through a whole counseling session w/o evening talking about CD. Counselor drew a Venn diagram with areas of his=marriage (intersection)=hers being equal as an ideal marriage. This holds promise for the future.
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Hugs
Helen

[Helen Grandeis]

Things are going excellent with SO as long as CD is not mentioned. It didn't even come up in therapy. (Therapist is very pro Helen!) What did come up is my wearing athletic shoes and ratty pants to church. Hence, $225 for 7-1/2 EEE Florshines Imperial Wingtips with all leather soles for dancing. Then we went to J.C. Penny's and bought 4 pairs of men's almost dress slacks on sale with three $10.00 off coupons. I purposely avoided the entrance by the lingerie dept only to learn that the men's dept has been moved there. Then we looked at dinnerware since our white corelleware has stiffled my wife all these 27 years. We found some nice plates at Carson's; however, I lingered behind to take a walk down the women's shoes. I dared to pick up a pair of 4 inch beige sling back pumps only to quickly lay them down.:straightface::straightface: Some days are going to be difficult. Therapist is laying the groundwork for some future gentle persuasion with my SO. But it will take several months of spreading fertilizer before the soil will be ready.
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Aching
Helen

[kimdl93]

I'm very curious to hear how your therapist handles this. Please keep us posted!

[Leelou]

Thanks for the update, Helen. Please keep us posted on your progress and I wish you two the best. Hugs.

[JenniferR771]

I hope this works out well, Helen. My wife has made only a few tiny concessions. The difference being she is a littly grumpy most of the time. She has threaten to throw out my girly stuff more than once, and rearranged everything 2 months ago. But so far my wedding dress, and about 21 dresses are still intact. And about 12 pair of shoes and the rubber dress--so forth. I am trying to be nice to her.

Hugs,
Jennifer

[Helen Grandeis]

My SO unfortunately is very close to the edge in terms of expressing anger and displeasure with CD. Apparently it doesn't take much to make the smiles and good times go away - these good times have been almost the rule recently until late last night.
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Time upstairs became the issue late yesterday. I haven't CD'ed in almost a month. Not to bad yet; however, the call of the wild was strong in the woman's shoe dept at Carson's - hmmmm! 4 inch beige slingback pumps!:daydreaming::daydreaming:
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Will limit future on-line and Tria activities to before she wakes up and before she comes home. Then she won't feel neglected.
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Thank you for your interest.
Helen

[Inna]

I am almost in pain just reading your posts Helen. I am sorry for such blunt, and in your face commentary but I just can't help feel your pain oozing from in-between the lines.

I know you are making all the strides to keep your loved one in so to speak, peace, but it is far from loving embrace. I feel for you, I know what dependance and living in the past does and how strong of a feeling it is. It is also very scary to imagine living someone so familiar for what! a little crossdressing session. You are right!
But then I am asking my self, who are you????????????????????????

Is it just dressing, or are you this wholesome feminine persona awaiting its time to share in the world and yet seems will never be able to see light of a day in its full glory???????????????

Just a reflection Helen and please do not take it in any other way, I respect and commend your unbelievable resolve and strong will, I had fought this way for 40 years before near committing suicide. I personally know the commitment and struggle between what feels right in our mind and what is right in our hearts, all my love hon, Inna.

[Helen Grandeis]

I has a great weekend with my wife including a concert with the symphony on the Lake Michigan beach. No one ever mentions the elephant in the room. It eats quietly and doesn't break anything. Wife has been very good company. We are contemplating our trip to the upper peninsula over Labor Day weekend.
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I have spent the day making sandwiches for freezing for my lunches. (I don't recommend it due to the foul taste.) I also finished off numerous chocolate chip cookies both as cookies and dollops (no double dipping) of dough. The last activity has been going through stuff my sister cleaned out of my late parents house - in this case letters from obscure girls from 33 years ago.
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I am contemplating my resurrection in some small way since I haven't emerged at all in more than a month now.
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Hugs to All
Helen

[ReineD]

Helen, you wife may be thinking it is all over and you are "cured"? This is not a good place to be.

You may want to think about changing your tactic, and being quite firm with her that the CDing is not gone and it will not go away. You need to find some compromise, even if it is only an acknowledgement on her part that you are who you are and you deserve to be treated with dignity by being given private time to express yourself and a place to store your things so that you don't feel you are sneaking around, if she is not willing to see you dressed.

You need to become OK with who you are.

[Helen Grandeis]

Our therapist has modeled a successful marriage as the intersection of two overlapping circles called Husband's Name & Wife's Name. For a marriage to be healthy and successful, the non-intersecting parts of the circle that represent our individuality must also be healthy and happy. ie - we must exist as individuals and not be totally submerged in the marriage. This is a powerful concept. I just hope it is useful in the long run.:thumbsup:
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As for me, I don't feel that bad but I do feel somewhat disconnected. When a mission is launched into deep space, it first locks onto the sun and then usually the star Sirius (brightest star). Sooo - although I am not in any great discomfort, I feel just a little disoriented like I am in a slow tumble. I can't lock onto the sun or Sirius.:straightface: I can't let the burden of her disapproval make me feel guilty about being a Crossdresser
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There is a modern "children's" movies called The Golden Compass where all people had half their soul in the form of a little animal that followed behind. My soul partner "Helen" is stretched too far away.
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Thank-you Reine for your interest and response. I have made clear to my wife that I am never going to be cured and that I don't feel I have done anything wrong. But I will remind her next session.

[Eryn]

I have to agree with Reine. If your wife is OK only when you are totally stifled to the point of not discussing something that is important to you then you have no relationship at all. She's being a dominatrix, only without the fun of the leather outfit.

That therapist might have a good idea, but if he/she isn't helping your wife to understand your desires and their importance to your relationship it is time to get another therapist. That cutsey Venn diagram sounds like something out of a self-help book, hardly something worth paying a professional to learn.

Eryn

[ReineD]

Thank-you Reine for your interest and response. I have made clear to my wife that I am never going to be cured and that I don't feel I have done anything wrong. But I will remind her next session.

The next step is to enter a negotiation stage so that you can each be whole. This does not mean the CDing needs to enter the intersecting spaces of the Venn diagram. But it does mean that she needs to acknowledge it is present.

A marital counselor explained to us years ago that a marriage is like a three-legged stool. Two of the legs represent each "whole" partner (who do not hide behind addictions, compulsions, or denial), and the third leg is the relationship itself. If any of the legs break, the stool will not be stable.

[Helen Grandeis]

The stool is also a good analogy. We don't need to trash the doctor. We need to find a crack in my wife's stonewalling thorough which the nanites carrying the truth can enter. Thank-yo u for your replies!

[Kristy_K]

Good luck Helen you will need it. From experiences if she wins you will lose mentally. I really hope that things could be different for you. As I got older the need to express Kristy was stronger. So strong that even antidepressants didn't help anymore. My wife try very hard to except it but finally decided that she couldn't after trying for about 3 yrs. And I even kept it out of eye site of her.

[Eryn]

...if she wins you will lose mentally....

Be cautious of the "win or lose" concept. A relationship isn't about winning or losing, it's about each person accepting and understanding the other's needs. Both parties have to be willing to move away from their initial positions toward a compromise therefore neither party truly "wins" or "loses,"

[Helen Grandeis]

Helen filled the tiny universe inadvertently left open by my wife. It was nice to be consumed by the pink fog, if only briefly. I feel almost totally relaxed. It is not an abundant world but it is a world with hope.
---
A Happy Day
Helen:):)

[kimdl93]

I take it that you had some time alone to dress. Is that correct? Hope there are more such days to come.

[Helen Grandeis]

A secure two hour alone in "mens" clothing that she provided!
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The outfit is an absolutely sheer and silky nylon undergarment that is form fitting. The one piece garment is 1/2 sleeve and extends down to the knees. It has a scoop neck. The only difference between the corresponding female garment is the lace trim at the bodice and around the bottom edges. The feel is awsome.
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BTW Wife has lost interest in the one other person I have confided in. Our counselor has her working at living in the present moment and not worrying about the future or the past.

[Helen Grandeis]

:) I was waiting for my wife outside a Ladies Room on Mackinaw Island and heard a woman in line comment that some day she was going to storm right in to the men's room (no line). I encouraged her to just go in like she owned the place. Go right in the stall and leave. :):):) (It always works for Helen).
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Had a great time on the island (en drab), at the Shipwreck Museum (Whitefish Point) and on the Labor Day Mackinaw Bridge walk. Defineatly on my dressed bucket list, in the far future when I "get out"!

[Helen Grandeis]

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Tnx
Helen