a bit amazed and disappointed

[Steph.TS]

I've seen sites that showed women that transitioned from being men to being beautiful women, in the the 1950's! One of the concerns I have as do other TS women, is how will I look afterwards, will I pass, can I be beautiful? The Answer I see to that question is no one knows... we have to go through with it to see the effects, and this bothers me, because I'm risking looking like I'm struck between genders, not being able to pass and end up being rejected by family, friends, and everyone else. How is it that they were able to turn men into beautiful women in the 50's and 60's but 50 years later they can tell us we'll be passable women, or beautiful?

[Aprilrain]

I understand your concerns But I think what you fail to realize is just because you saw a couple of pictures from the 50s doesn't mean everyone who transitioned then was beautiful besides back then one of the requirements for transition was the ability to pass, it was a very sexist culture and you would be denied treatment for transsexualism if you did not fit into a very narrow-minded view of femininity. So if you were 5'5'' and had soft facial features to begin with you were in luck but if you were a linebacker forget about it. Also it was required that you be a heterosexual which has nothing to do with gender identity. Basically if your male psychiatrist thought you were hot then you must be a girl!

If you take hormones and have FFS you will likely look very female maybe not beautiful but female. There is no risk of being stuck in between genders because maleness and femaleness have a lot of over lapping features some GGs are very masculine looking and some Men are very feminine looking, so how can you get "stuck" in-between? Heck, there are even men with boobs, BIG boobs! You will only look stuck in between if you do not cultivate a feminine presentation. If your body and face are half way there than a good makeup job and flattering wardrobe can make up for your physical deficiencies.

[Hope]

Well first of all, your being accepted or rejected by people like family and friends has VERY little to do with your pass-ability. It has to do with your family and friends and whether or not they are jerks. Your pass-ability might have more to do with how you are received by strangers - but a strangers opinion of me still has more to do with whether or not that stranger is a jerk or not and whether or not I can charm them into liking me even if they are jerks, than it has to do with my pass-ability.

Secondly - whether or not you are beautiful has very little to do with how you look right now. There are some of us who are simply more well proportioned and more femme from the start than others, and that DEFINITELY helps - but beauty is more often than not about the way you carry yourself, about the way you interact with others than it is about physical appearance.

Third - there is no such thing as an ugly woman. There are lazy women, but all women have potential if they strive for it and are willing to do what it takes to make themselves shine. That goes double for us. Doubly true, and it requires twice as much work. You CAN be passable. YOU CAN be beautiful. You simply have to be willing (and financially able) to do the work.

Finally - one of the reasons they were able to have such wonderful results in the 1950's is because they were VERY strict about who they would allow to transition. To tall? No transition. Big hands? No transition. Deep voice? No transition. Going bald? No transition. Too old? No transition. Today they don't pay so much attention to the physical characteristics of the person seeking transition - and a lot more people transition with a lot wider variety of needs (not every one feels the need to pass) and so the results are a lot more variable.

But if you are willing to do the work, if you are able to believe in yourself, and make other people believe in you as well, if you are able to be charming (Or at least learn to be) - you too can be beautiful and passable. But you have to be willing to do the work.

[Felicity71]

I've seen sites that showed women that transitioned from being men to being beautiful women, in the the 1950's! One of the concerns I have as do other TS women, is how will I look afterwards, will I pass, can I be beautiful? The Answer I see to that question is no one knows... we have to go through with it to see the effects, and this bothers me, because I'm risking looking like I'm struck between genders, not being able to pass and end up being rejected by family, friends, and everyone else. How is it that they were able to turn men into beautiful women in the 50's and 60's but 50 years later they can tell us we'll be passable women, or beautiful?
I was watching 'true lies' movie with Jamie Lee Curtis the other day, and thinking wow she has rare features for a woman. Some would say masculine. Shes done well in her career and good on her. If you are looking to transition because you want to be a beautiful woman, perhaps you need to have an objective councilor to figure out what your feeling.

[Nicole Erin]

You probably are not going to look a lot different after transition, just a feminized version of yourself.
Keep in mind that a lot of TS, no matter how enviable they might loot, when they look at themselves in the mirror, they just see "him".

Like me, I am nothing to envy, I am one of those linebacker TS. Yet I get called "ma'am" more often than not. I don't get it, I mean I see "him" in the mirror, but I guess others see otherwise. Either they are being polite or I pass well enough to convince some people. Polite people these days? Ehh, not likely.

[sandra-leigh]

I was watching 'true lies' movie with Jamie Lee Curtis the other day, and thinking wow she has rare features for a woman. Some would say masculine.

It is widely rumored that Jamie Lee Curtis genetically a male, but one with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.

Rumor is not proof. If it is true, she has never publicly admitted to it. It cannot, however, be readily disproved from her life circumstances.

[Steph.TS]

I was watching 'true lies' movie with Jamie Lee Curtis the other day, and thinking wow she has rare features for a woman. Some would say masculine. Shes done well in her career and good on her. If you are looking to transition because you want to be a beautiful woman, perhaps you need to have an objective councilor to figure out what your feeling.

I have a therapist, and while I want to be beautiful I'm not looking for runway model or anything out there, but I do want to have breasts, I want to be pretty, I want to experience what GG experience where if she walks past the guy wants a second look (in a good way). I'm sure that my desire to be beautiful is no different than any woman out there (though GG have a better chance at being the runway models). my desire to transition has many areas I'm looking forward to, I would love to be one of the girls, to be accepted by men and women as a woman. thinking about me remaining as man and growing old as a man depresses me TBH.

[Aprilrain]

I do want to have breasts,
I want to be pretty,
I want to experience what GG experience where if she walks past (a) guy (he) wants a second look (in a good way). I'm sure that my desire to be beautiful is no different than any woman out there (though GG have a better chance at being the runway models)

You can have any size breast you want you just have to pay for them! Your not likely to get much more than an A cup from hormones but you could be one of the lucky ones and get a B or C. I'm super skinny always have been so I don't expect much growth I simply don't have the fat for it.

Pretty is a pretty objective goal. You could meet someone who thinks your the cats meow and you could still not "feel" pretty.

Girl I think you have some serious misconceptions about womanhood, yeah its nice to feel pretty by having people admire you but most of the time if a guy is staring at you when you walk by you just feel like meat, it's not as great as it sounds.

Your right, Your desire to be beautiful is probably no different than any other woman's GG or otherwise.

Most woman wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell at being a runway model. The average female height is well below the average height of a runway model. If I had transitioned when I was 18 I probably would have had a better chance of becoming a runway model than 90% of the women I have ever known. Some BA, FFS and my slim but tall frame would have put me in the range of the typical runway model not that I have ever had a desire for that.

You can be one of the girls, you can be treated like any other woman by men and women. Dismissed by most men and just another girl to women. lol. Being a woman is WAY more ordinary than you could ever imagine, in fact just as boring as being a man but the gender dysphoria goes away and Now I feel like I'm on the right "team" It's worth it to me.

[Jorja]

For most TS, looking beautiful is not the concern. Becoming the woman they are is. After transition you will look like a feminized version of that guy..... maybe. Unless you are blessed with good genes and are already good looking you will do like the rest of of do. THANK GOD for plastic surgery!!!!! This is where FFS comes into play. Today I look nothing like that guy that so many years ago wish and dreamed of just being myself.

That being said, looking beautiful is only icing on the cake. Take a walk around the mall, grocery store, beauty parlor or any place there are women. They come in all sizes, shapes, colors. Some have big breast. Some have mosquito bites for breast. Some look like fashion models. Some look like old WWE wrestlers. You have to work with what you got honey.

[tamarav]

I think every answer you received is right on, each of us has our own interpretation of the ideal. Some focus on one thing, others on another and they are all right. We each view from the outside and see femininity as a different thing.

It does sound as if you have spent very little time being out in public, if is is for no other reason than your own fears. In that respect we are all pretty much the same, fear of being rejected, regardless of how we look. Getting over that hump is sometimes the hardest thing to do but, after that you may find out that the glossy look is just the very edge of true "femininity".

We have all suffered from derisive looks, snide comments, I even got a "har-rump" once. It comes with the territory but you have to simply set aside the opinions of others and face your true self. If that true self is indeed feminine, then no matter what you look like, your feminine side will keep you going, and eventually others will recognize it and some will even embrace it.

So quit worrying about how hot you will be able to look, work up to it and just get to where you want to be, if you want to be there at all. You have looked at selected Transesuals, not the entire group, and of course there are outstanding examples, as there are in the entire human race. My own wife told me she thinks that only 1% of the GGs out there are gorgeous, what about the other 99%?

[Momarie]

If you transition expecting to be "beautiful" I don't think your heart or motivation is in the right place.

If you are already a woman in your head, just a plain ordinary good woman already, you'll be fine.

The superficial looks are the least of it.

[Rianna Humble]

If you are already a woman in your head, just a plain ordinary good woman already, you'll be fine.

Rats! Didn't realise I had to be good as well :heehee:

Plain, I can do, but good? :eek:

[Momarie]

Oh Hush Rianna....and be good! Or mamma is gonna do some 'panking.

Seriously, how many real women are beautiful???
Not that many.
If being beautiful is what you want....be realistic.

[sandra-leigh]

Plain, I can do, but good? :eek:

Can you fake "ordinary" ? ;-)

[Kelsy]

My wife tells me I will never be a beautiful woman. A woman maybe but beautiful not likely. Does that stop me? no I am a woman
take it or leave it! My peace my joy my place in this world is being a woman it has always been and now that I know it
there is no other way. Beauty is much more than physical appearance. some of the most beatiful women in the world have lost their
youthful looks but they retain their inner beauty

[Momarie]

Kelsey:
"Beauty is much more than physical appearance. some of the most beatiful women in the world have lost their
youthful looks but they retain their inner beauty"


Amen, beauty is inside....you might get lucky when you are young for a few years, but you are going to cheat yourself, if that is all you value.

True long lasting beauty comes from within.

[docrobbysherry]

Steph, I'm a CD and don't really relate to being TS. All I want is to APPEAR to be an attractive woman! And, the ONLY person's opinion I REALLY CARE ABOUT is MINE!

Similarly, it seems to me, u could find out how pretty you'd be as a woman much easier than it would be to BECOME a woman! Make overs, diets, nice wigs, breast forms, even FFS would give u a good idea of how you'll look. All MUCH easier to accomplish than hormones, implants, and major surgery! If u DON'T like what u see after U try all that, don't transition!

As many say here, it's NOT so much about what others think! I would think the bottom line is, U need to be happy with yourself!

[Melody Moore]

docrobbysherry,

While you are correct in saying that you need to be happy in yourself, I take issue with the fact that you
are telling Steph here not to transition because she isn't comfortable with how she looks. There are many
of us here who are far from perfect when it comes to physical beauty & looks who have & are successfully
transitioning. So 'looks' play no part in this really - but we have to accept ourselves for who we truly are
and never be afraid to show our real faces in public when we are going about our daily lives & business.

And while wearing masks & latex body suits might be your thing, I don't think that its anything like that is
going to help someone who suffers from gender identity disorder which I am convinced that Steph has to
deal with. The answer for most of us is in the hormones & not for the feminisation effects it might bring
but in the peace that it gives us through alleviating the anxiety, agitation, aggression & rampart male
sex drive that often frustrates & annoys the crap out of most of us. So there is much more to hormones
and what we get out of it than just having some boobs.

Steph...

Trust me, even the most beautiful women in the world can look very ugly, my ex girlfriend was a prime example of this.
A very attractive woman when she was happy & took pride in herself, but the complete opposite when she was very
unhappy & had that 'I don't give a f*ck what other people think of me' attitude. So it is no different for trans women.

If you are unhappy, sad miserable it becomes very hard to look your best because the outer beauty is always going to
reflect what is on the inside. If you have ever watched those reality television shows where they take an ugly duckling
& turn her into a beautiful swan, you should have seen how they also do a lot of work on that person's self-esteem &
self-confidence because it plays such an important part in the overall make-over process. Unless you have been in a bad
car accident & been severely disfigured, unattractive women are more often than not are people who have simply lost their
motivation to take care of themselves. So personal grooming does say something about how the person really feels about
themselves on the inside.

Now I am not wanting to sound like I am blowing my own trumpet here, but what I am about to share with you is truth
& fact. I don't consider myself the most attractive person in the world, but every time I go out somewhere, even to do
some shopping etc, usually I get some people, both men & women I have never met coming up to me paying me some
type of a compliment about the way I look. I found this truly amazing at first because I never thought of myself as being
anything 'attractive'. I was just happy to be me, the woman I truly am & that is all I was ever seeking from transitioning.

One thing I have heard some women say (and this has come from both natal females & transsexual females), "I can't look
so good because I don't have the money, so I cannot afford it". First of all be aware I am 48 years old & am on welfare
payments for disabilities & get about $1600 a month to pay my rent & live on. I have not had any FFS, so what you see in
my photos are my natural features & there has been no photo-shopping done to my images. All the clothes I own I have
bought from thrift shops & paid about $1 per item. The only clothing I ever buy new is underwear & hosiery. All my make
up I buy from eBay & is all top quality products I get at very low prices. But you need to know what will work & what won't
before you go lashing out with online shopping for these types of products. But the products are cheap, so it doesn't cost
a lot if you buy something that doesn't work. But then some things you don't think works might have another application,
one such thing was some foundation I bought once that was too dark to use as my main foundation, but I found another
use for it as a 'bronzer'. So it never went to waste in the end. If you don't know how to apply make up & make it fit the
occasion & what you are wearing, then not even the best make up in the world will do you any justice. So you need to
learn from someone that knows make-up. If you don't know anyone, then the girls at the cosmetic counters who sell these
products can also give you some good advice. Other alternatives for learning about make up include books & videos which
can also be found online. I taught myself all the basics from books & videos but have improved through tips from my friends.

With my jewellery I have not spent a lot on that either, most of the wears I buy are locally crafted pieces & are
also sold new through the local thrift stores. I buy bracelets, ear-rings & necklaces for anywhere from $1 to $5.

Finally I just wanted to talk about the issue of seeing the 'old male self' in the mirror. I think we would be kidding
ourselves to say that we don't see something of the same person in the mirror. I know I do, but I don't think of
that person anymore as being male - I recognised & accepted the fact that the face I see belongs to a female
& an ugly one at that mind you. But I don't care if I am not the most attractive looking female in the world, the
main thing that matters to me is that I am happy & have found true inner peace in myself. So for the first time
ever in my life I feel proud to be who I am so I take pride in myself & my appearance, so what is on the inside is
shining through on the outside.

So I think the bottom-line is that once you finally do find yourself & embrace that person you truly are, then the
rest seems to just fall into place. But getting into that type of head space will take time & some work if you have
self-esteem & self-confidence issues. I also know girls who are still have masculine features, but they get through
life easily because they have truly embraced who they really are & are no longer afraid to go out & express that.

So keep at it Steph, keep talking to your therapist about these issues & I am sure that you will find new ways to
look at yourself in the mirror & cope with the fact that you might not be the best looking girl on the block, but this
still doesn't mean that you cannot be attractive to lots of other people. Good luck & I hope this advice helps you
& others who are having such issues about beauty & their own physical appearance.

:hugs:

[Inna]

As far as visual appearance anyone, or more concisely almost anyone can have their face surgically fashioned to resemble that of a female. Depending on ones gene-pool they may require little or a lot of intervention. The top full service surgery may get upwards of 60K.
The rest is up to diet, exercise, genes again, and further surgery if applicable.

But the most important is the person inside, is she true to her self and mere thought of going back to living life as before may drive her to suicide, then probably she is ready. I think we must be ready to loose it all in the process of transition, weather it will or will not, happen.

And if the funds are not available then is she ready to still go boldly because there is no alternative to life? I guess what I am saying is that transition, at least to me, seems the result of exhausting all the possible alternatives and coming away with nothing left but to become true and whole but without hesitation nor misgivings as to where it leads. There is pain along the way, excruciating turmoil of emotions and losses which are hard to handle, and yet we go on. There are mood swings and agonizing repetitive doubts and yet we go on. We walk through gates of hell and shed numerous tears, and yet we go on.

Are you ready?

[Steph.TS]

I think I've given the wrong impression, I've said I want to be beautiful, and I do but that's not my main focus, I do however want to pass, if I can fit in I can avoid being afraid that everyone knows I used to be a man. If my only goal was trying to fit in it'd just be easier to stay a man, but that is an upsetting idea to me... I know there will be negative things I'll have to live with I'm trying to make myself ready for them. the original point was that in the 50's I'm sure those that did transition had no reason to wonder if people would know if they were men or not, and I'm sure that they must have felt secure with their passability, I hope that if I do transition, that I'll pass.

Thank you Melody for your wonderful post, the most important part is having that inner peace, and acceptance! I hope one day to have it.

[Felicity71]

Steph, I'm a CD and don't really relate to being TS. All I want is to APPEAR to be an attractive woman! And, the ONLY person's opinion I REALLY CARE ABOUT is MINE!

Similarly, it seems to me, u could find out how pretty you'd be as a woman much easier than it would be to BECOME a woman! Make overs, diets, nice wigs, breast forms, even FFS would give u a good idea of how you'll look. All MUCH easier to accomplish than hormones, implants, and major surgery! If u DON'T like what u see after U try all that, don't transition!

As many say here, it's NOT so much about what others think! I would think the bottom line is, U need to be happy with yourself!

Very good advice, Sherry. You need to be happy with yourself.

[Aprilrain]

Steph, I think you are working through some very common fears. Depending on the day I care less or more if I pass. I go places On sunday with facial hair, because of electrolysis on monday. Do i pass? probably not! but I'm still me, a woman, I make no attempt to dress sound or act like a guy what so ever.
I'm not sure where your at but a support group could be invaluable for helping you work through fears about going out dressed after awhile its enough to just be accepted even if everyone knows. I have to go places all the time where people knew the old me but they call me April and most of the time get the pronouns right. do I pass no I'm pretty sure they know my biological history but I'm still a woman.

[crystalann]

When I started my transition back in 2008 I felt there was no way I would ever be able to just pass as female let alone feel beautiful, I really started beating myself up with the facts. I started writing down how I felt and almost all of it was about passing. Now a few years into HRT and some small FFS passing is no big deal and some find me pretty, but I still see my old face in the mirror, and I'm married now so someone felt an attraction to me! I feel change what you can and don't worry about the things you can't. About the women that transitioned back in the 50s and 60s, the way I see it they passed easier because at that time people did not know about transgendered people like they do now, and that helped them to blend in. I really hope you find your peace in the world, best of luck.:2c:

[Jorja]

About the women that transitioned back in the 50s and 60s, the way I see it they passed easier because at that time people did not know about transgendered people like they do now, and that helped them to blend in. I really hope you find your peace in the world, best of luck.:2c:

The transgendered of the 50s and 60s did not have it easier than today. There were many hate groups against them. For example the KKK, Nazis, and countless religious groups. Even the thought that you migh be gay or transgendered (back then gay) was a death sentence. While we have our own version of these hate groups today, be thankful that you live in a somewhat civil time and society is much more tolerant of such things.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The transgendered of the 50s and 60s did not have it easier than today. There were many hate groups against them. For example the KKK, Nazis, and countless religious groups. Even the thought that you migh be gay or transgendered (back then gay) was a death sentence. While we have our own version of these hate groups today, be thankful that you live in a somewhat civil time and society is much more tolerant of such things.

exactly...and they were usually chosen for their looks and feminine features... i'm sure there were alot of very frustrated girls out there... this was much more mysterious and seedy back then....remember those girls were showgirls!

if you are nervous about how you will look, that seems pretty normal...all you can do is take good care of yourself , see if you have options for any "work getting done" and go for it..your only other choice is too not go for it...and we all know how that often turns out...

[crystalann]

Hay thanks for putting words in my mouth. I never said there was no hate back then or now! As Christine Jorgensen said every day life was easier because most did not know of transgender people that's what I said! Play nice.
The transgendered of the 50s and 60s did not have it easier than today. There were many hate groups against them. For example the KKK, Nazis, and countless religious groups. Even the thought that you migh be gay or transgendered (back then gay) was a death sentence. While we have our own version of these hate groups today, be thankful that you live in a somewhat civil time and society is much more tolerant of such things.:)

[Jorja]

Hay thanks for putting words in my mouth. I never said there was no hate back then or now! As Christine Jorgensen said every day life was easier because most did not know of transgender people that's what I said! Play nice. :)

Sorry if I offended you sweetie but I grew up with it!!!!

[noeleena]

Hi,

If i looked at my self as being a beautiefull woman or thought i was i would be blind , being beautiefull is not a mandertory to being a woman, what is , is being one. being female / woman has all ways been there being this good looking or a knockout not for this kid . does not stop us even though being a woman its how our hormones have reacted in our bodys over the years will determine how we look.

For me its about being accepted for who i am & then as a woman in my own right. its about who you are & whats in side that makes the person like attitude & accepting your self,

...noeleena...

[Inna]

Just to ad to what was already said, that passing is as important as inner strength. The word "whole" from Greek word "holos" means all, entire, total. Our ability to experience phenomena called happiness is just that, feeling whole, as one body and spirit inseparable and true.

Passing gives us an ingredient of acceptance, one of the strongest needs humanity and more importantly, culture is based on. When passing, such need is entirely fulfilled and gets us closer to the ultimate goal of wholeness. By it self it will not make us happy but it inevitably is one of the main powers necessary to achieve happiness.

Also correct image of feminine reflection in the mirror creates so necessary visual authentication and affirmation of our inner self.

When all these aspects are combined into a cohesive self, an anxiety which accompanies Gender Dysphoria is gone and life can begin, not without its struggles but definitely without fear of non acceptance.