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View Full Version : The difference... CD vs TS...



MandyTS
10-03-2005, 06:21 AM
Not the obvious...

I was thinking today at work (well right now) about the time frame for my transistion. I was given clearance for HRT but I am not sure if I am going to start right away (other than a small dose of estrogen to replace the testosterone I am currently taking (kallmann's).

I had wanted (and really needed deep inside) to be a woman. I have found lots of support via a tall TS support group and through my gender counclier. I thought a month ago that I would just say screw it (see other thread), but another onset of depression is telling me that is NOT going to happen. Also learning about laws in the state of California about rights for TS people has bolstered my resolve to transistion in the next 5 year max (or course things may change, but...)

What has gotten me is my lack of interest in CDing right now... and that has gotten me thinking about the true differences between CD and TS. Before I would even consider full time (RLT) I want FFS, mainly for my brow contour and a little in the chin. I have no problem going out in a blouse and a pair of tall womens jeans effectivly in drab mode. The whole massive amounts of foundation, lipstick, etc just seems not real to me. I think a women (including myself) looks much better with maybe a little foundation, some eyeshadow and maybe lip glass, conservative lipstick. I am not out to pass right now anyway... I want to be myself, and myself is MY hair and my face, etc.

The big thing though is I am only into "real" clothing, not short skirts and shorts, high heels, etc. I have a pair of beautiful 1 inch wide heel sandles in black that I adore, and have actually worn in drab (with jeans) with only one of two comments. To me the pretty longer skirts (below knee), a pair of tennis shoes with girl jeans of pants, a nice blouse, low or flat shoes, are what I like and see myself in... i.e. "normal" clothing, passable.

It really seems like CDs are obsessive with bras and panties, corsets, pantyhose, etc. I personally do not like pantyhose all the time (unless it is with a black longer skirt, etc), and can see why GGs don't like them either. I admire the CDs that can see this and wear clothing that is more passable, then not. Just go into a mall and look at the women, most are wearing either shorts in the summer or skirts, pants, etc in the winter with cute little sweaters. Bra on the other hand are seen as ultilitarian (to hold up the breasts) and less with sexual pleasure (which I do not get out a wearing women clothing.

I guess my view of my sexulity being a TS is a bit different than CDs... opinions :rolleyes:


BTW vallies avatar is exactly what I am talking about, cute, sudued and
very real womanlly... just how I want to be.

-Mandy

MarinaTwelve200
10-03-2005, 07:12 AM
Crossdressing, dressing in the clothing of the opposite sex, period. --It is one of the things that TSs(Transsexuals) DO, not a "condition" like TS. Indeed, we see CDing associated with a variety of conditions, Tranvestisim (TV), Escapisim, some forms of fetishisim, SM and Homosexuality.

People with a variety of identity and psychosexual issues Cross dress. It is a common characteristic of several such conditions, which each, otherwise,
have an entirely different exogenisis.

Crossdressing is is an ACT not a "condition" in itself like TS, TV, HS, etc. that each hold in common and is done for different reasons.

While I am NOT implying that TS, etc. are DISEASES, the relation of CD to them is similar to the relationship to a Common SYMPTOM, to a variety of ailments. Where CD is to TS TV and some forms of SM, etc. as "a fever" is to Measels or Chickenpox Here, a fever is a SYMPTOM of many different illnesses, but tells us nothing of WHAT illness. Fever and measels are NOT in the same category. The first is a symptom of the other. And this symptom is shared by many dissimilar ailments. So is it with an urge to CD--it is a SYMPTOM or "side effect" of TS and other things, not a thing in itself.

MandyTS
10-03-2005, 07:30 AM
I must then not be using the right term. If a certain type of CD then is say TV vs TS then how does that effect the dressing etc?

I don't know how to classify TS/TV/CD/ etc, I would definitly not call them a disease, but maybe for example with TS the cure may involve transistioning.

BTW since I am TS, female inside I do not feel that it is "crossdressing" although mainstream media may have a different take.

GypsyKaren
10-03-2005, 08:41 AM
I don't know how to classify TS/TV/CD/ etc, I would definitly call them a disease, but maybe for example with TS the cure may involve transistioning.

.

I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make. I don't consider being being ts/cd, or whatever you call yourself, as having a disease. To me, it's like saying that being left handed is a disease. It's just being different from the mainstream.

I consider myself tg, because I have always considered myself female. I also dress in order to feel and present myself as a woman, so since I am a man wearing woman's clothes, that also makes me a crossdresser. It's just words, and I certainly don't feel like I need a cure for anything.

Stlalice
10-03-2005, 08:44 AM
When you speak of the diference between being a TS and a CD you need to keep in mind that while BOTH groups dress they do so for very different reasons.

Generally speaking a CD is usually a Hetero male with a need to express a feminine side - there is no desire to live full time as a woman and the idea of SRS scares them every bit as much as it would any normal male. Quite often the choices of wardrobe tend to be more on the fetish end of the scale with high heels, mini skirts, extreme make up, etc. being common. There are also those who like to dress, blend in and pass but have no desire to transition. They identify as male and have NO conflict where gender identity is concerned.

The transsexual/gender dysophoric individual dresses because their gender identity is in conflict with their physical body and dressing is the only way to lessen that feeling of conflict. They desire to transition and live as the oposite sex in order to have some sense of peace in their own skins. They may or may not have SRS but the thought of the surgery does not in any way cause any feelings of fear or dread - quite the oposite. Transition and SRS are viewed as a form of salvation - a chance to finally be at peace with yourself. Generally in terms of dress they tend to be more conservative in appearance with an emphasis placed on "passing" and /or blending in on an everyday basis. :D :D

MandyTS
10-03-2005, 08:47 AM
What I am trying to say is that we seem to have two types of CDs if you would here, the people who find they are TS and those who are just CDing or TV. It seems like the people who would call themselves the designation show they CDing a totally different way (i.e not the whole high heel, panty hose, etc. They seem to want to display who they are by not emulating women (if you would) but being themselves, which translates into what they wear, etc.

Jacqui
10-03-2005, 04:44 PM
Stalice, I think that was an excellent answer that described what I also feel is the difference between cd and ts.

My58, if you believe that BEING a woman (through SRS) is more important than simply DRESSING as one, in my non-medical and non-professional opinion, you are ts. But when you do dress, since you are male, you are engaging in cd'ing.

When and if the time comes that you go through transition, SRS, FFS, etc, then when you dress, you will no longer be cd'ing, but just dressing like any normal girl!

Good luck,

Jacqui

Jacqui
10-03-2005, 04:45 PM
Stlalice, sorry, I left out the "l".... ooops!

MarinaTwelve200
10-03-2005, 06:08 PM
What I am trying to say is that we seem to have two types of CDs if you would here, the people who find they are TS and those who are just CDing or TV. It seems like the people who would call themselves the designation show they CDing a totally different way (i.e not the whole high heel, panty hose, etc. They seem to want to display who they are by not emulating women (if you would) but being themselves, which translates into what they wear, etc.

Actually there are at least 4 or more types of CD. Remember, CD is what all these types do, not the type itself.

---The first type, I call "escapist" (I dont know the formal name for this one)--They are hetro males, who CD to get out of their usual Male Identity to , in effect, "take a vacation from themselves"--its usually done to releive stress--although they might not be conciously aware of it. They think of their REAL self as being male.

The second type, can be called a Transexual (TS) these are guys with a female brain and/or female self image of their "real" self.--they CD to be "who they are". The exact opposite of the escapist type, but still does CD.

Then there are the fetish types, Hetro Males, who get off on wearing sexy women's clothes -- Usually NOW refered to TVs or transvestites---(a former term for CD in general before distinctions were made between sexual and non sexual based CD) And we also have SM types who see CD as a form of 'humiliation'. And several other various reasons for CD.

It seems that MOST CD (around 80%) is evenly divided between the escapists and TS types, with the vatious other types filling in the rest. And there is also some overlap---as many escapists get a sexual "charge" out of CS as a bonus side effect.

Caitlyn
10-03-2005, 08:10 PM
It seems to me that some people are confused with the definition of what a 'crossdresser' is. I am going to put my two cents in.
To cross-dress is an action...A transvestite(yes I hate that term as well) cross-dress's. A drag queen cross-dress's. A GG wearing male clothes or a transsexual MtF wearing male clothes are ..crossdressing. Its sort of like saying a transsexual is always a transgendered person....but a transgendered person isnt always a transsexual.
Well I hope that has confused you some more. Maybe now you know the sort of sh*t that goes through our heads 24/7.
PS...Yes marina twelve said pretty much the same, but I just wanted to clarify/confuse you more.

Julie
10-03-2005, 10:19 PM
Mandy,

Most likely I'm TS. I know I'm not CD. I use TG to identify myself because I most likely will never transition for the sake of my kids. Like you, I don't get the fascination with specific clothing items, especially lingerie. I don't like the image in the mirror but it just doesn't do anything for me. I was thinking of posting a poll asking what appeals to the members the most, clothes, lingerie, kinky girl things, etc. I wanted to see what the results would show. I might still do that.

I dress to look as much like a woman as possible. The more casual I've dressed, the more comments I've had from GGs telling me I looked good. I've also had a couple of guys ask me if I was a real woman when dressed like a real woman would.

While getting all dolled up is fun, it's something I only like to do on special occasions. I just feel akward being over dressed. The places I frequent are mostly jeans & T-shirt clubs. Even though I'm usually the only TG there and may stand out I still find myself wanting to dress casual. I just feel more comfortable that way.

Saturday I went out in pink skorts (I'm a skort-a-holic!), red long sleeved cotton T and low heeled sandals. I ran into some friends I hadn't seen in a while and was asked to take some pics. I forgot to load the flash card in my camera and told them I'd go home to get it. I was feeling a bit frisky and knew one guy in particular would go bonkers if I showed up in this fabulous red dress, heels and purse I recently bought, so I changed into that. But I also knew once the novelty wore off I would want to change back so I brought the other clothes I was wearing. When I got back I joked with everyone that since it was homecoming weekend I had to get all dolled up. :rolleyes: Well, I'll bet I didn't spend more than a half hour in that outfit before I went back to the car to change. After I did it was like, "Thank God that's over!" Yes, I felt attractive and feminine but it wasn't the right place or time to be so formally dressed.

I identify as female and want to put that image forth when I dress. Lingerie, lace and satin are for special occasions (and for those who can look good in them!) But I find myself reaching for a pair of skorts and a casual top most often when I dress.

Just an aside: When I went to my HRT doc for the second visit he asked me if my desire to crossdress had diminished. He said it was very common in TSs to experience that once they were on HRT.

Marlena Dahlstrom
10-04-2005, 12:09 AM
It's important to remember that it's a transgendered spectrum.

There's clearly differences between a guy who crossdresses because he's got a fetish for pantyhose (for example) and someone who crossdresses because she believes a female who was born in the wrong body. But in between it can get a lot blurrier.

It's not "SRS or suicide" for everyone. Some like Julie, might want to transition but the decide other things -- typically SO or family -- are more important.

I know people who are "transgenderists" in Virginia Prince's original narrower use of term -- men who are living full-time as women, but who aren't interested in HRT or SRS, although they've done things like electrolysis. OTOH, I also know people who've done electrolysis but consider themselves CDs and are happy being part-time girls.

If there's a one key divide between TS and CD it's probably how you feel about your male body. I might fantasize about being a woman temporarily, but overall I'm quite comfortable with the body I have. (Although a TS acquaintance of mine has a (losing) bet that I'll transition someday.)

On the CD side of the fence, I do think there's probably a wider variety of motivations. (I've got a whole essay that one.) There's definitely some CDs who are just into the pervy aspects (you'll find lots of sites of CDs desiring to be "taken as a woman"). In part I think for these folks CDing may be plausible deniality for bisexual urges, plus it may be more comforting for them to think of themselves as "perverts" rather than having gender issues.

There's some CDs who do seem to be into being girly girls and into all things frilly. In a way they're almost like male femme lesbians. In another way, they're being like (their idea) of teenage girls. Part of it may be that many of them don't get to dress that much -- and if they had to do their make up every day, they'd probably get tired of having to do it.

For others, such as myself, it's a chance to express a femme part of my personality (among other motivations). So while I enjoy the clothing for its own sake and it helps me feel the part, it doesn't have the symbolic value that it definitely seems to have for some CDs. Consequently, although I'd prefer to where a skirt, wearing pants isn't a horror to me, and in fact I'll usually wear pants out in public to help in passing.

Anyway, it's a long way of saying there's a lot of stops along the TG spectrum with a lot of different motivations and attitudes.

Natasha Anne
10-04-2005, 12:28 AM
I found Julie's comment about HRT and the need to crossdressing diminishing quite interesting. I had that experience, but it was before HRT. I got the go ahead from my psychiatrist to visit the endocrinologist, and from that day it felt like an enormous weight was lifted from my shoulders. It was almost like getting to that point replaced was enough to replace my emotional need to crossdress completely.

I now where female clothes all the time, slacks, flats, tops, but no make-up or anything too embelished or too shaped. The clothes are obviously women's (and most people realise that and comment) but they fall more into the category of androgynous than feminine.

I used to crossdress whenever I could, but only for a good reason, like when I was going out on the town. Now I'm doing it all the time, in far less flamboyant clothing, and it's fast just becoming my regular clothes. Of course they look nice, and I like to look nice, but it's really not the same as when I was using clothing to look after my emotional desire to change sex. Now that I am, they're just a natural part of that. My biological gender is male, and I suppose you could still say I CD, but 3 months of androgen blockers, progestorone and estrogen does have a serious effect on libido, thoughts and impulses.

I guess if crossdressing is defined as a concious act, then me wearing men's clothes would be crossdressing now. I'd have to really think about what to wear and go and hunt through the piles of men's clothes lying in black bags in my study. These days I go through my wardrobe, find the clothes I want to wear on a given day, just like when I was wearing male clothing. They have no emotional effect on me. If you told me not to wear them I might get extremely dissappointed though.

MandyTS
10-04-2005, 04:08 AM
The hardest thing for me personally is the idea that I want to go out as myself wearing a skirt, female style pants, use a purse, etc. Beyond getting by with a pair of pants it is not really a reality. I have very little desire to get all "dolled up" if you will anymore. Lately the act of just putting on a dress at home stops the depression a bit, mostly because I realize that someday I will be able to wear this all the time as normal clothing.

I have such a hard time with dresses though. The male body is so not designed for them, I tend to need a bigger size too due to my stomach but it just does not fall all to well... I guess loosing a bit of weight will help there.

I wish there was more adregonous clothing out there... at 6'6" it is quite hard to get good fitting clothing in the first place...

Rachel_740
10-04-2005, 12:01 PM
As a transexual I'm obviously a woman born in a mans body. Since my transition, as I feel more comfortable in my new life, my looks turn more feminine etc., I feel more feminine.

I have now got to a stage where (in my own mind), not only should I have been born a woman (OK, a baby girl :rolleyes: ), but I AM a woman. As all the clothes I own are female, does this mean that I am no longer CD, but I am just 'myself', a woman, awaiting the operation to put my sex back in line with my gender?

Anne

Natasha Anne
10-04-2005, 03:05 PM
Exactly,I feel that before taking the steps to HRT, therapy and ultimately the op one day I was a crossdresser.Now I feel that term, although strictly accurate if we look at biology only, no longer applies to me and in fact might even offend me if you catch me in a mood. It's not that crossdressing is bad, or a lesser form of TG, it's just that I need to be a women now and I've made radical changes in my life already to be seen that way, and calling me a crossdresser is basically not recognising the trauma, emotional hardship, and steps I've taken. Those things are all a big deal, and I feel took loads of courage and dealing with anxiety.
As a transexual I'm obviously a woman born in a mans body. Since my transition, as I feel more comfortable in my new life, my looks turn more feminine etc., I feel more feminine.

I have now got to a stage where (in my own mind), not only should I have been born a woman (OK, a baby girl :rolleyes: ), but I AM a woman. As all the clothes I own are female, does this mean that I am no longer CD, but I am just 'myself', a woman, awaiting the operation to put my sex back in line with my gender?

Anne

MarieTS
10-04-2005, 07:42 PM
I totally agree with you Alice. I also share Natasha's feelings as well. Great discussion, girls!




When you speak of the diference between being a TS and a CD you need to keep in mind that while BOTH groups dress they do so for very different reasons.

Generally speaking a CD is usually a Hetero male with a need to express a feminine side - there is no desire to live full time as a woman and the idea of SRS scares them every bit as much as it would any normal male. Quite often the choices of wardrobe tend to be more on the fetish end of the scale with high heels, mini skirts, extreme make up, etc. being common. There are also those who like to dress, blend in and pass but have no desire to transition. They identify as male and have NO conflict where gender identity is concerned.

The transsexual/gender dysophoric individual dresses because their gender identity is in conflict with their physical body and dressing is the only way to lessen that feeling of conflict. They desire to transition and live as the oposite sex in order to have some sense of peace in their own skins. They may or may not have SRS but the thought of the surgery does not in any way cause any feelings of fear or dread - quite the oposite. Transition and SRS are viewed as a form of salvation - a chance to finally be at peace with yourself. Generally in terms of dress they tend to be more conservative in appearance with an emphasis placed on "passing" and /or blending in on an everyday basis. :D :D