What does it mean to be a woman?

[Cheyenne Skye]

I often read posts here that say "I just feel like a woman and want the outside to match." But what does it mean to be a woman? Is it just that when you look in the mirror, you don't see the person you imagine yourself to be? Or is it more? Do you feel more caring and nurturing than most guys would? Do you want to stop having to be the emotionally strong person who takes charge and makes the decisions? Letting someone else take care of you. I think this question is fundamental in our search to determine who the "real" me is. I have been thinking about this for a while now and believe it is a combination of many things that I feel as to why I need to explore the possibility of transitioning. I would appreciate your input.

[danielleb]

Yes, on all counts.

Of course it's more complex than that, but fundamentally it's a clear thought that we don't belong in the world the way we are and we must do something about it. Reality is the creation of the mind, so as long as we know what's going on inside of us, it's easy to align everthing else around that. If you don't know what you need, how are you supposed to tell anyone else!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

when i talked to my sister about this for the first time, she said basically that as a woman, she could not describe what it means to be a woman...and she attacked my assertion that i could somehow know i was a woman because of this

When you grow up in the wrong gender or gender role, it is a grind..you may deny it, you ,you may overact your male role...but if you are transsexual a point comes in your life (and it seems to always come) when you feel you must do something about it.. you must not only express who you are, but you must receive feedback that validates who you are...as basic as it sounds, its very difficult to put into words and really must be experienced to be fully understood

i think the examples you use have some validity but are also subject to stereotypes...i think you are playing with fire if you let those things get too much in your head...who says a woman can't be the strong one? lots of women I know are far from nurturing...i don't think those feelings define anyone as male or female even if being nurturing is more typical of females...because of this, i think it's dangerous to over think...i see lots of comments about how transsexuals act, whether their looks or their manners are feminine enough, i have always been a very strong nurturing type...my kids always had 2 moms in a way.....but i still love action and horror movies...video games and big messy cheesesteaks...not typical of many women i know...but i grew up as a guy, i like what i like...for a while i tried to not like stuff that seemed too male..but that got old very quickly.... it would be a shame to go through something as crazy as transition and then give up things you like because they are not feminine enough.....and it's especially a shame if you postpone transition or addressing your situation because you don't feel like a nurturer or you feel like you are too aggressive or strong....if you can somehow simplify the dialogue in your mind to "am i a man or a woman?" "can i function and thrive as a man?" , then you are better for it..

[Melody Moore]

D. All of the above

But as Danielle points out it is a lot more complex than that. When I think back to my childhood the first thing
I realised that was female about me was my taste or attraction for pretty girly things, including female clothing.
But because these things were 'off-limits' to me as a child I wasn't able to indulge myself into my true passions.

As I grew up I always felt like a square peg trying to fit into a round hole in trying to fit in with male peers. But
because I was a 'boy' (err well so I was told), the girls didn't accept me as one of their peers either, but it was
with them I identified the best with which I will explain better shortly. As I went into puberty life become much
more complex & difficult for me. My body was developing very androgynously, the only thing I lacked to look like
a complete female was breast & a vagina. I even had the hips, thighs & butt that is for sure. I use to look at
myself in the mirror naked quite often & wonder it would be like if the little bits were fixed up how I imagined they
should be. I first thought about a sex change at the age of 15 after seeing the movie about Christine Jorgensen.

However by the time I entered adulthood I managed to convince myself I was a male & repress my gender issues.
I did this by immersing myself into hyper-masculine type activities but also developed an addiction for adrenalin
because it was a huge rush that made me feel 'strong & tough'. All through my childhood I had been picked on &
bullied by male peers, as a young adult I really excelled in gymnastics, martial arts & other extreme sports. By the
age of 18 I joined the infantry in the Army because of a 'gung ho' attitude that I had developed to 'be a real man'
& it was as far from being 'girly' as you could get. I knew if I was surrounded by green uniforms then the temptation
to dress as a female or show my feminine side wouldn't be there because in the Army there is no room for that. So
the Army had become one huge mask for me to hide behind & everything I did felt like it was an act. It was hard for
me to be a guy, but felt pressured ever since I was a child that it was something I had to do. I had the same type
of compulsion about relationships - I MUST find that special person, settle down, buy a house & start raising a family
which I was OK with until I finally worked out I was hooking up with the wrong women for all the wrong reasons.

But the biggest surprise that I never expected was the emotional differences between men & women I discovered as
I grew older & wiser. One of my problems was that I knew my partners better than they knew themselves & most of
them were very unsettled about this. Some of them interpreted this in me as being 'obsessionable, clingy, emotional
& possessive' & none ever interpreted as being transsexual despite the fact I openly told them 'I felt like a lesbian
trapped in a male body'. They laughed at this & never took me seriously. I even came out & told my last girlfriend about
my dressing up as a girl right throughout my childhood & also took an active interest in what many people would define
as feminine type activities, including sewing, floral art, shopping, cooking etc,. but she reckons she never connected all
of the dots & realised that I was transsexual & had a female brain. The other thing she couldn't get over was how different
I was to other guys & I think this also played a huge part in why my relationships failed. Girls are use to having guys that
do the typical blokey things, like going drinking & fishing & working on cars with their mates & the girls I met often seen
me as a typical 'blokey bloke' in the beginning & this is what drew them to me. However in a relationship I wanted to nest,
I quickly become submissive & just wanted to settle down. Because I had a natural female psychology, I built very strong
emotional bonds with my partners which is why I was interpreted by women as being 'too emotional & clingy'. Another thing
I tried to do was encourage my partners to help make decisions or joint decisions. Eventually I realised that I was looking
for the same thing from my partners as they were looking for from me - I needed the security, space & the peace-of-mind
of having a real man in the relationship that they also needed - It just took me a very long time to realise that.

So at the end of the day it was a culmination of things that made me realise that I have the brain & natural psychology
of a female. My male psychology was something that had been conditioned into me through the way I was brought up &
sent through private boy's schools. This is just part of legacy of being born intersexed in an era when they believed that
'nurture would win out over nature'. But whatever experiment they did on me certainly back-fired. The amazing part of
this for me is that noone revealed a thing to me about my intersex condition & even to this day my parents have always
avoided the subject & refuse to talk about it if I bring it up. But the truth was revealed in the end but it came about for
me because I finally worked out why I was so dysfunctional as a male & why I never really fitted in & had many problems
in my social life & found it difficult to make new friends. Life has changed dramatically now I can indulge myself into the
passions that I have craved for all my life. Now I can live my life & express myself & my emotions as how it should be.
So this is what it means to me to be a woman. :hugs:

[arbon]

I don't know. There is no reference point to compare to. I don't know what a woman that was born with the right body parts and raised as a woman feels like. for that matter I don't know what it feel like to be anyone else male or female.

But I absolutely can not think of myself as a man. Just can't. Not happening. It is not there. I used to try and make myself be man and it got ugly at times. Really messed me up and about drove me crazy. When I considered trying to find that middle ground as a crossdresser I could not do that as I got mentally hung up on the still being a man part of the deal and thinking of myself as a man in dress. It was not right and made me depressed. Thinking of myself as woman though comes naturally to me once I let it happen and stopped fighting against it because of my fears about what that would do, where I would go with that.

Thinking of myself as woman is something I don't have to make myself try to do or be. It comes easy and I feel better about myself. So that is where I am going to stay.

[Aprilrain]

I just figured that living life as a woman was better than killing myself : ) I don't know what it is like to "feel" like anything but me. Do I feel like a woman? When i touch my skin it is much softer and has much less hair, especially my arms, my muscles have lost the firmness they once had so yeah I guess I "feel" like a woman. lol. Just feel like yourself, I know a lot of woman I wouldn't want to feel like! Its better to just KNOW you are a woman than to feel like one anyway that way when your feelings change you still KNOW your a woman. This didn't come for me by sitting around my bedroom in stockings and heels. I was compelled to go out and experience life presenting myself as a woman to the world little by little. I just kept experiencing more relief as I went along. I am full time now wouldn't know what to go back to if I had to? starting HRT was one of the most life affirming decisions I have made. I knew I WANTED to be a girl most of my life but not until the hormones had fully kicked in did I KNOW for sure that this was the right path for me.

[sandra-leigh]

It isn't something I can explain at all well, only something I know.

One thing that I am not looking for is "someone who takes charge and makes the decisions". I make my own decisions and expect to keep doing so. I'm also not comfortable making other people's decisions: I decide for me based upon what is inside me, and I expect other people to decide for themselves based upon what is inside them.

The women in my family are pretty independent, have been for generations.

[Alice B]

I don't think the emotional side of myself is any different dressed or not. When I am dressed I see my self as a woman in the mirror. Not necessarly a beautiful one, but as a woman. What ever that means in my diluted world.

[Sharon]

I don't know how else to explain it other than I just know I am female. It has nothing to do with clothing, it has nothing to do with my interests and hobbies, and it has nothing to do with anything other than I know what I am as well as what I am not.

[Sophora]

I don't know how else to explain it other than I just know I am female. It has nothing to do with clothing, it has nothing to do with my interests and hobbies, and it has nothing to do with anything other than I know what I am as well as what I am not.

I have been thinking about this question since I started down this path, However this is exactly my answer. Thanks Sharon as this is perfect.

I have been miserable for 31 years denying what I should have been and that is female.

[Cheyenne Skye]

I think maybe what I was trying to get at is how you would define what a woman is. And maybe also conversely how you define what a man is and why one definition fits better than the other.

[Sophora]

I think maybe what I was trying to get at is how you would define what a woman is. And maybe also conversely how you define what a man is and why one definition fits better than the other.

This is a hard question to ask anyone as there are no solid answers. I give you a million different reasons and thoughts on what a woman or a man is, however I can't define them.

It is like a questions that they asked in intro to philosophy. What is green? What is a chair? These terms are so simple and so ingrain into us that when one tries to talk about it it becomes hard.

There is no hard and fast answer even among cisgender people.

As Descartes said "COGITO, ERGO SUM"

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i don't think there is a satisfactory answer to your question...to most people it's not a complicated question, ask most people and they'd just say vagina=woman, penis=man.....
we know otherwise , we know there is a gender in our brains...and when our physical nature and social upbringing don't correspond, it's a rough situation..
it's really that simple.....

trying to go too much deeper than that seems totally subjective....and any discussion would be highly influenced by social and cultural conventions in your family, in your neighborhood, or perhaps in your religion, making it even more difficult..

[Kelsy]

My natural inclinations since I can remember have always tended toward the female. Tastes interests and reactions (especially emotionally)
My maleness is a fasade' to cover what was natural but unacceptable in me! My task is to unlearn all that I conditioned myself to be. Unfortunately
my physical being shouts male aswell but I must and need to allow my true self to emerge form under that cover. female is my true nature. How does it feel?
I don't feel like a woman I feel like me and that is woman enough. I only wish I could have grown up and been sociallized as a girl and had
the experience that women share but being trans is a unique and very interesting perspective of life that only few share which is special in it's own way.

[noeleena]

Hi,

What is it being a woman from birth. knowing you are i should say were. as we dont know at that early an age . for me i saw no difference between boy or girl & even later male female & who does.later you do only in a child like maner.

when you are thinking as both & at the same time you dont see a difference . thats how it was for me then, & now i know there are differences , some of that was learned as i watched & saw those differences . yet in side of who i am im still the same i dont think as a male or female as being seperated, thats me . Are we talking about our body or our mind , for me its the wireing my make up just so much going on inside that some times even we dont really know whats going on & taking place, our hormones & lot's of other details .

For me its about being different , intersex = being both.



Because i did not come with a womb does not say im not a female / woman it just means i dont have what is needed to have my own child .
Built in to women female , most any way is a need to bear children to carry & give birth theres no difference in how i think from an other female .woman , its about how we are wired thats from birth its just there.

...noeleena...

[Wendy_Marie]

I often read posts here that say "I just feel like a woman and want the outside to match." But what does it mean to be a woman? I am in this camp...I have always felt that I had the mind of a female with the body of a male...as If someone were playing a cruel joke on me. Is it just that when you look in the mirror, you don't see the person you imagine yourself to be? I have avoided having pictures taken of myself for my entire life as well just because the image always looks foreign to me.Or is it more? Do you feel more caring and nurturing than most guys would? For me...Yes. I am a nurturer and I take pride in taking care of others...I love to cook for my family and friends, I take on household chores that some might see as feminine to help out the wife and when it comes to our kids and now our Grandkids...I take on a good deal of responsibility towards taking care of them. Do you want to stop having to be the emotionally strong person who takes charge and makes the decisions? Yep, this is me too...I have a more submissive personality and love the idea of relinquishing control in certain areas of my life and my Marriage.Letting someone else take care of you. I think this question is fundamental in our search to determine who the "real" me is. I have been thinking about this for a while now and believe it is a combination of many things that I feel as to why I need to explore the possibility of transitioning. I would appreciate your input.

Women in general are strong individuals whether the portray this or not...lets face it...if it were left up to the male of our species to have children propagate our population...we would be endangered.
I have great respect for the Gender that is Female and count myself lucky to have lived in a household full of them...two older sisters, three younger and after marriage I have two children both of which were girls....I have been trained very well in my lifetime by them.

[BRANDYJ]

I don't think the emotional side of myself is any different dressed or not. When I am dressed I see my self as a woman in the mirror. Not necessarly a beautiful one, but as a woman. What ever that means in my diluted world.

I like this response from Alice. I don't think it is easy to explain what it is to be a man, let alone a woman. Like Alice, I am me in either mode. I will add that I think by my being a CD has made me into a better man. I feel like my core values seem to match what many of us think a woman are like. My empathy, my caring, nurturing, loving needs and desires is more in tune with what many, if not most women might feel. For that I am happy to be TG.

I am proud and happy to share some of those traits with the stronger sex. But I still like being a man too.

[Rianna Humble]

I am another one who cannot give you a list of characteristics and behaviours that make someone fmale rather than male. For me it is about my self image and about who I am.

Since I was very young and dreamt of my wedding day seeing myself as the bride not the groom. I have known that what I look like on the outside does not match who I am on the inside. In relationships, I have never been able to envisage myself in the role of a husband because that is not who I am.

Many of my characteristics that I attribute to havinga female brain can occasionally be found (perhaps to a greater or lesser degree) in some men, although it is true that many of those have flourished since I accepted who I am according to people at work.

I could bang on about men's "fix it" mentality or their "win the argument" attitude to communication, but then again I know other women who display these traits and you would never accuse them of being men.

[dawnmarrie1961]

"What does it feel like to be a woman?" You will have to ask a real woman because none of us, no matter how much we change ourselves, will ever truly know.
We can only guess.
Being a real woman means having grown up through all the stages...childhood...girlhood..puberty(their right of passage)...to womanhood.
We can be girls but we can't ever be women.
Sorry. That's just the way it is.

[Aprilrain]

"What does it feel like to be a woman?" You will have to ask a real woman because none of us, no matter how much we change ourselves, will ever truly know.
We can only guess.
Being a real woman means having grown up through all the stages...childhood...girlhood..puberty(their right of passage)...to womanhood.
We can be girls but we can't ever be women.
Sorry. That's just the way it is.

Sorry but that is just your opinion, which i find not only latently hostile but mildly offensive.

[Bree-asaurus]

I can't really answer that, although do know what it's like to not feel like a man.

I know what it's like to examine other men and try to imitate how they act and not really knowing why they act that way.

I know what it's like to understand the way women think better than the way men think.

I know what it's like to feel uncomfortable in my own skin.

I know that when I allow myself to stop pretending and just do what I feel like doing, it really seems like I fit in with the girls more than the boys.

I know that the male parts of my body never felt like they belonged there.

I know that through HRT, and other changes I make to look more feminine, I feel less conflicted about who I am and it allows me to just chill out and be comfortable with who I am.

I know that as I walk away from everything I felt like I was forced to be, I become much happier with myself.

I know what being on this path gives me hope and a reason to hang on.

But I couldn't tell you why I am a woman. Aside from physical differences and various traits that can't individually be classified as strictly male or female, I don't think you could get a straight answer from anybody, trans or not.

[BRANDYJ]

Very well expressed Bree_K It kind of gives me a little insight as to what it must be like to be TS and and beyond being a CD under our umbrella of being TG. I appreciate your post and views.

[Rianna Humble]

I can't really answer that, although do know what it's like to not feel like a man.
...
I know that being on this path gives me hope and a reason to hang on.

:yrtw:

I didn't really want to snip any of Bree's answer because it was so perfect

[Kaitlyn Michele]

:yrtw:

I didn't really want to snip any of Bree's answer because it was so perfect

i agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ReineD]

Do you feel more caring and nurturing than most guys would? Do you want to stop having to be the emotionally strong person who takes charge and makes the decisions? Letting someone else take care of you.

Like Kaitlyn, I've not been able to understand why there is the idea that CDers need to be women in order to feel more caring and nurturing. I admire the aspirations, but I don't understand why there is this idea that men can't be those things. I know men who are caring and nurturing. They do exist. And there are women who are not those things.

Also it is a fallacy, in our day and age, that women don't have to be the emotionally strong ones and also that they get taken care of. How many divorced women and single moms are there who are responsible for taking care of themselves? How many of the marriages depend on both incomes? In how many marriages is the wife the major income earner? In real life, women are much stronger than I think many CDers care to realize.

Don't get me wrong: by all means, CDers and TSs need to be the women they feel they are inside. But to use the above two reasons as a justification just doesn't make sense to me, since men are caring and women are strong. :) I like what Sharon and Bree said. It has to do with self-definition more than anything else.

My definition of a woman? When I'm all alone, there is no gender for me, even though I know who I am. I reason, I have opinions, I feel my emotions, I engage in my varied interests, just like any other man or woman when he or she is alone. I don't put on makeup, I don't wear pretty dresses. I'm apt to drink juice straight out the carton, not make my bed, and get lazy and let my clothes sit on the floor, just like my college age sons.

It is when I am with men that my gender as a woman is emphasized. The fundamental difference may be no more complex than the contrast between how we each identify, as Sharon and Bree stated, and also in pure biology and hormones. When I am just with other women, I don't feel much different, gender-wise, than I do when I'm alone. We swear, we sweat, we bond, we argue, we give each other a hand, just like guys do when they are together. Well, maybe we don't talk as much about how many men we've bagged and there is less swagger than you see among the men who don't know each other very well. :D

[Beth-Lock]

I suspect that feeling like woman is for a TG, a long journey. It is further complicated by the fact that GG's reach differnt destintiions themselves. Is the fact that we fell like a woman at various points on our journey, just a progress report, and not evidence of reaching the destinatioin, making the feeling any the less valid as a cry of triumph?

[Melody Moore]

I can't really answer that, although do know what it's like to not feel like a man.

I know what it's like to examine other men and try to imitate how they act and not really knowing why they act that way.

I know what it's like to understand the way women think better than the way men think.

I know what it's like to feel uncomfortable in my own skin.

I know that when I allow myself to stop pretending and just do what I feel like doing, it really seems like I fit in with the girls more than the boys.

I know that the male parts of my body never felt like they belonged there.

I know that through HRT, and other changes I make to look more feminine, I feel less conflicted about who I am and it allows me to just chill out and be comfortable with who I am.

I know that as I walk away from everything I felt like I was forced to be, I become much happier with myself.

I know what being on this path gives me hope and a reason to hang on.

But I couldn't tell you why I am a woman. Aside from physical differences and various traits that can't individually be classified as strictly male or female, I don't think you could get a straight answer from anybody, trans or not.

Thanks Bree, that pretty much sums everything up I was trying to say.

[Sophora]

:yrtw:

I didn't really want to snip any of Bree's answer because it was so perfect

It was so perfect. Thanks Bree for the perfect answer.

[Hope]

This is a complicated question that is fraught with danger. ANY answer is going to offend someone but dawnmarrie1961, you did a bang-up job of offending pretty much everyone here.

I actually feel kind of stupid for not having considered this question earlier. Like the rest of us - I have often said "I feel like a woman" but then never stopped to ask what it is that a woman is. And the truth - as many of us have alluded to is that there is no one set of characteristics that make up a woman. But they do cluster. It is certainly politically correct to suggest that women are no more emotional than men - and it is easy to point out examples of emotional men and compare them with examples of non-emotional women to make the point. But the reality I think is different. Which is why any definition is going to be so fraught with danger. There is probably no woman who fits the "average" or has all of the feminine characteristics we could amass without any of the masculine ones. But there are clusters.

There are definitely characteristics that are more commonly female and others that are more frequently male. To deny that in a forum like this is lunacy at best.

A cis-gender female friend of mine, who refuses to shave her legs, or her armpits, plays all sorts of sports, is comparatively emotionally distant, and works in a lab as a scientist is, without question or hesitation unflinchingly female. She says I am the girly one of us. (to be fair, most of my cis-girl friends think I am disgustingly girly right now and can't wait until I get out of this phase - but they tolerate me like the good friends that they are) And sometimes when I look at her, or chat with her, and long to be and have everything that she so blithely takes for granted (from my perspective) and say something stupid like "So... you going to shave your legs for that date?" she will shoot me a look and say "You be a woman your way, and I will be a woman my own way."

So I think that perhaps the answer is this: while there are most certainly clusters of answers to the question - there are as many answers to the question, as there are women who answer it. And that includes our answers - as totally and completely and as equally valid as any others.

But the terrifying and mystifying part of walking this path is the question that haunts all of us. How DO we know that we are women? The answer might hold the key to the other question.

The answer is again going to be different for each of us.

For me, there were two issues that kept cropping up:

1) This was something I simply knew in the core of my being. It is a part of my identity - despite the fact that anatomically, it is wrong. This is something I knew from the very earliest days of my being where I was first attempting to construct an identity out of the parts I was given. This was one of the parts. There is no reason for it, and no matter how hard, or how many times I tried to get rid of it or push it away or deny it, it was still there, still real, still at the core of my being. It remained, refusing to be denied. At some point, that core identity and the realization that it is real has to be enough. It is what makes all of the other characteristics irrelevant. Being a woman means being a woman at some very fundamental core level - without necessarily having ANY other reason to believe that such is so. Which is what makes this so terrifying - when everything that is obvious and concrete (like your big turgid penis) points to you and says "you are a boy" but something very fundamental deep away in your core cries out in anguish at the very thought of it - it is scary and dangerous to deny the physical and the concrete and take the leap of faith to trust that battered, invisible - yet very real - part of your soul that cannot express itself other than to cry out at having to go be one of the guys one more time.

2) I hate socializing with guys. I don't do it well, it makes no sense to me, and with the exception of one group of unusual guys that existed only in a rather exceptional set of circumstances, I have never been a part of a group of male friends that I would describe as having that reciprocally enriching experience friendships are supposed to have. On the other hand - in mixed gendered social situations, I always find myself in a group of women. Female relationships have always made sense to me, and i have often found that sort of mutual support where ones very soul is nourished and fed by and with other women. Unfortunately, when I was living as a guy, particularly as a strait guy, I would often be excluded from those groups, or only partially accepted. Which I understood - but it caused me no end of heartbreak. Of course - I am still not always accepted, which is somehow even more painful now - but that too is changing, and I like my odds.

I think for me - that is such a HUGE part of why it is that this has nothing to do with the clothes or the sex or the emotions or the nurturing or the jobs or the hobbies - but it is all about living and interacting with other women as a woman, on a level playing field where I can interact with people who make sense, in ways that feel natural and honest - it is about finding my place in the sisterhood, where I belong.

[Longing2be-Trisha]

To me being a woman is just who I am inside. I know women can be stronger, smarter, and more determined along with more viscous to protect the one they love. Women can be beautiful, smart, and strong all at the same time. Most men under estimate the true potential of a woman and think they are weak. Women are totally amazing and complicated people thats what being a woman is to me.

[noeleena]

Hi, Dawn.

(( None of us. )) who would that refer to. not those of us who are intersexed how do you see us . can we not be born with both sets of wireing & some of us have both set's of body parts. hormones , are we then not women , yes we do have male with in as well . or female ,

i know how i think i know what im like inside. please allow us at least to say we are women real women , we are different again in how we are put to gether i have part s that were missing Yet i know some of our people who are female & because of some thing going very wrong did not have a womb look past the oh this cant happen meds drugs birth defects, drugs that were given over 50 years ago are still efecting us now , please look beyond what you now think. if you came on our intersexed forums youd wonder how we have stayed alve. yes it effects us . those of us who are women will tell you the same thing we know what we are.

...noeleena...

[ReineD]

If you don't mind, I'd like to comment on a few of the things you've said.



It is certainly politically correct to suggest that women are no more emotional than men - and it is easy to point out examples of emotional men and compare them with examples of non-emotional women to make the point. But the reality I think is different. Which is why any definition is going to be so fraught with danger. There is probably no woman who fits the "average" or has all of the feminine characteristics we could amass without any of the masculine ones. But there are clusters.


There are definitely characteristics that are more commonly female and others that are more frequently male. To deny that in a forum like this is lunacy at best.

The stereotypical difference between men and women is the ability to feel and express emotion. Here's what I think: Women are socialized to express emotion. No one punishes them when they cry as little girls. They do have a head's up on guys that way. Also, I think that language development differs with men and women, so women learn at a young age to express the emotions they feel. It is how they interact with the world. They "feel" things, while men "do" things.

That said, our world has changed so very much, just from when I was a little girl. We teach our daughters now to be tough and take their lumps. They play sports. They get kicked around the soccer field too. We also (at least I did) teach our boys to be caring. We never told our boys they couldn't cry. When they cried I held them, even when they were older. My ex had no trouble crying.

Gone are the days when June Cleaver's only life experience was to cook and clean, while being shielded from the cold, hard, cruel world. The Junes of today support families, often alone, deal with dirty politics at work, are out and about in this ugly world just like Ward used to be. Along with such exposure comes an ability to deal with the emotions internally and just learn to be more stoic. She may cry inwardly when she's upset, but she will be d*mned if she will show it in the boardroom. She has learned to inure herself but privately, she can still cry. The reverse is true for men. They may not express their emotions with other men, but they do with their wives I think much more than they used to. Dads today change diapers, bathe the kids, run them around, help with dinner, and have tea parties with their little girls. Many dads are single fathers.

So the gender gap is much narrower than it used to be. This may not be true in all communities, in all parts of the country, but there still is a significant difference than the way it used to be just one generation ago.



She says I am the girly one of us. (to be fair, most of my cis-girl friends think I am disgustingly girly right now and can't wait until I get out of this phase - but they tolerate me like the good friends that they are) And sometimes when I look at her, or chat with her, and long to be and have everything that she so blithely takes for granted (from my perspective) and say something stupid like "So... you going to shave your legs for that date?" she will shoot me a look and say "You be a woman your way, and I will be a woman my own way."

To this I want to say that you are allowed to be a girly as you want to be. :hugs: I've no doubt that raised as a male you stuffed your emotions, especially if you went through a phase of denying or hiding your feminine self in your formative years (I don't know this, just guessing). So, you've got some catching up to do, and that's OK! :) But then you'll follow the same steps the rest of us have taken. With maturity (I mean the spiritual maturity ... time for growth as a woman. It's measured in terms of experiences and not in chronological years), you'll be just like the rest of us. You'll cry privately, but you will have learned that tears and girliness have their time and place.

Thank you so much for your post. :hugs:

[Beth-Lock]

Nature or Nurture?



The stereotypical difference between men and women is the ability to feel and express emotion. Here's what I think: Women are socialized to express emotion. No one punishes them when they cry as little girls. They do have a head's up on guys that way.

In my humble opinion suppression of testosterone helps both to express and feel emotion, as well as to accept emotional communication and perceive it more sensitively. It is then nature more than nurture that I see is the main factor.

[ReineD]

But what about the men who don't suppress testosterone and who've learned that it is OK to cry? :)

[Bree-asaurus]

Nature or Nurture?



In my humble opinion suppression of testosterone helps both to express and feel emotion, as well as to accept emotional communication and perceive it more sensitively. It is then nature more than nurture that I see is the main factor.

My emotion, empathy and sympathy hasn't changed since hormones. I've always been a very emotional person. All the hormones did in that specific regard is cause tears to flow far more often. But I haven't felt more than I did before.

[Beth-Lock]

All the hormones did in that specific regard is cause tears to flow far more often.

But isn't that a sign that you are more open to the emotional content of events in everyday life? That means your emotional channels of communication are more open, I think. After experiencing this for a while, I think it does make you more emotionally sensitive. Certainly it means that you will have to take into account that emotional events will make you tear up and maybe cry, and that too will make you more aware of such events, and you will learn, that you are now more sensitive to them, and may want to choose a time to deal with them when you can tear up in private, for example.
Recently, when I was tearing up in church during a hymn, when thinking about a deceased friend, the woman taking collection, placed her arm comfortingly on my shoulder when she reached me. Women understand these emotional moments. You could say, they are more sensitive to them. These are some of the building blocks of empathy and sympathy.

[Bree-asaurus]

But isn't that a sign that you are more open to the emotional content of events in everyday life? That means your emotional channels of communication are more open, I think. After experiencing this for a while, I think it does make you more emotionally sensitive. Certainly it means that you will have to take into account that emotional events will make you tear up and maybe cry, and that too will make you more aware of such events, and you will learn, that you are now more sensitive to them, and may want to choose a time to deal with them when you can tear up in private, for example.
Recently, when I was tearing up in church during a hymn, when thinking about a deceased friend, the woman taking collection, placed her arm comfortingly on my shoulder when she reached me. Women understand these emotional moments. You could say, they are more sensitive to them. These are some of the building blocks of empathy and sympathy.

No I wouldn't say that. I WOULD say, however, that my body is much more prone to react to my emotions... by crying, or feeling sick to my stomach, etc.

The only real emotional changes that I have noticed is that I am much more maternal now, and my patience for things such as babies crying, or cleaning up after sick dogs and things of that nature, has increased.

But this is just my experience. I've always been very in-touch with my emotions and identifying with other's pain and struggles.

[Schatten Lupus]

That is a question that everyone can answer in their own way. When you look at GG's, there are so many different "types" that even a general comparison is difficult. But really I don't need to justify it. I know I don't fit the "norm" for a male, and I cringe at the thought of watching sports, thinking my brain is in my dick, and most other male stereotypes are just not me. But I also consider the normal female stereotypes and I realize that men too can be nurturing and supportive, emotional, and even things like ballet are just fine for men to do. One guy I know who was in ballet will ask "What would you rather do? Be in a room full of sweaty naked guys slapping you on the ass? Or work with sweaty women in tight clothing?" if you try to attack him for it.
But what is it to be a woman? I don't think I could put it words. I know the clothes I wear don't make me anymore or less of a man or woman. However I know that when I look in the mirror it seems as if I am not seeing the person I should. I know that when I open up to myself, I feel a rush of regret of all the feelings and emotions I have repressed because "that's not what boys/guys do". The answer is probably something that I really can't put down in words, but I know deep down in my mind, in my heart, and in my soul, that I am a woman and this male body may as well be a prison.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

that's right....we all start out different from day one...some men are emotional..some very emotional...etc..
THEN we start to learn ..our parents, our first play dates....first grade..and on it goes..

certainly it's tough to argue hormones don't impact you emotionally in some way though..in fact, aren't hormones key components of our emotional development along with our socialization??

it seems like its common for us to obsess over this because we want to validate our internal gender so badly..

[sandra-leigh]

I feel like I'm ducking the issue a bit by not giving a longer answer. There was a time when this question was quite important to me, and (no offense to anyone intended) the kind of responses we have seen in this thread would have left me quite disappointed. In particular I tried to work through a very closely related matter at length in a thread a couple of years ago, http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?90652-How-do-you-know-if-you-are-transgendered-or-just-CD

I tried working through it all logically, going through "evidence": If I was this way or that, didn't it "prove" something one way or the other? The answer kept coming back "NO" -- that although certain things might be more common (or more commonly associated) in women, that they were not "proof".

I struggled mightily with the subject. It was hard; it was nerve-wracking; it was anxiety provoking. I had to face internal questions not only about my life as it was, but also about how I would like my life to be.

And then one day, after those months of struggle, the thought came to me that, "I may not feel like I am female, but I know I am not male." And when I thought that, I said to myself, "Yes, that's right!" I didn't have any proof or particular evidence; I didn't even know really what I meant by that, but I recognized it as being true for me. And having recognized it, having lived with the thought for a few hours, I started to feel at peace: it was what was right for me, and I didn't have to struggle any more, and I didn't have to debate it in myself any more, and immediately I began to feel like "Huh, it was right under my nose all the time and I just didn't see it." And within two days (at most!) I was feeling like, "... And I don't want to go back to 'just' being male either".

Some might refer to this experience as "a conversion of faith". I wouldn't deny that. It wasn't some kind of objective truth, it was the resolution of an inner and personal truth. Some people come easily to these kinds of truths; it happens that I do not. I needed the struggle with thoughts and the intellectual examination of what it would mean to answer one way or another.

My work, my way of life, is quite analytical, rules and proofs and so on. And yet underneath that I operate a lot on intuition: the investigations I do provide facts and chains that percolate around in my brain formlessly and suddenly I have a working pattern. I had to question actively to provide the basis for my intuition to take over.

How do we know? For me anyhow, the answer is, "You just know." But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be asking yourself hard questions. You might not get answers to those hard questions, but the process might be very important.

[Melody Moore]

Something I thought I would quickly mention because it is interesting how natal females see you when you have transitioned.
A couple of lesbian girlfriends told me about 6 months into transition that they have never seen me as anything different but
a 'female'. So if they are seeing me as a female in everything I am, where did this come from? There must have been something
there that I could see & embrace within myself to be the way that I am now. So I think transsexuals do have some idea on what
it means to be a woman even though it is so complex & hard to put this all into words. Hope & I have put our interpretation of
this into more detailed words, Bree has summarised pretty much everything into the key points of what it means for most of us.
I think these are some of the points that are also looked at by clinical staff who have to make other decisions for our transitions.

[dawnmarrie1961]

Sorry but that is just your opinion, which i find not only latently hostile but mildly offensive.

Yes. I agree that it is just my opinion to which I am entitled to. I am sorry if you find it to be hostile or offensive in any way. It is only the thuth as I have found it to be. In order for me to come to terms with who I am I must be able to admit to my limitations. Even as much as I might want to be female I would only be lying to myself if I thought it could be entirely possible to do so. Don't get me wrong. I love the "fantasy". But I must live in the "reality". I must embrace both parts of myself, male and female, because each is a part of the whole. Without one the other can not exist. I can not exist.
And believe me: I want to continue to exist. So I struggle each day to find the balance between the two halves so that I can be made whole again.

[Kelsy]

My emotion, empathy and sympathy hasn't changed since hormones. I've always been a very emotional person. All the hormones did in that specific regard is cause tears to flow far more often. But I haven't felt more than I did before.

That is an interesting observation Bree I have the same experience. The hormones have only made the tears flow more frequently and by the gallon! My feelings are the same the expression has changed. I am certainly less embarassed by their occurance! Seems there is nothing like a good cry.

[Starling]

...we know there is a gender in our brains...and when our physical nature and social upbringing don't correspond, it's a rough situation..
it's really that simple...

It's a reality that simply has to be experienced to be understood. I've tried to explain it to people close to me, but it's like describing red to a blind person. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

But it sure helps to be here. I have learned so much, thanks to you women who are so much farther along the path. I've taken some steps I never dreamed I could, and hope I have the strength to follow through.

What's a woman? It's me, too!

:) Lallie

[Beth-Lock]

I've always been a very emotional person.

Looking over my life I would say I have been vulnerable to emotional breakdowns and near breakdowns, so emotion has always played a big role in my life, though my manner as a guy had been a strange mixture of outward coldness and inner sensitivity. This perhaps helps to explain the way I have felt the effect of tetosterone suppression.

[Schatten Lupus]

certainly it's tough to argue hormones don't impact you emotionally in some way though..in fact, aren't hormones key components of our emotional development along with our socialization??
That is a good point. Hormones do indeed play some role. But to what degree can really only be answered when you look at other cultures to examine similarities and differences. And there are indeed some keen similarities such as women do tend to be more emotionally sensitive, and men tend to have higher sex-drives. But at the same time, I believe our society in general likes to believe hormones do more than what they actually do.

[Beth-Lock]

Being a real woman means having grown up through all the stages...childhood...girlhood..puberty(their right of passage)...to womanhood.
We can be girls but we can't ever be women.

Bonnie Pruden (if I got her name right) had a nice television show, and on one she talked about welcoming as women a variety of GG girls who were not very feminine, into the fold of young women, in a welcomig, tolerant and kind way. I think she was optimisticc that they were doing the best they can and ought to be honoured, welcomed, accepted and loved. So it is not just a problem with transwomen. Thank goodness there are mature, wise women out there that are willing to welcome a variety of women of various types, including often enough us, into the fold.