Crossdressing and desire to change race?

[Brett]

Hey all. My first post here.

I am writing this post because I have been a crossdresser and desired to appear as a female my entire life. Over the last couple of years though, my fantasies have been taking a new twist, and I desire to appear as a black woman, an Asian girl, or a Latina woman.

I am a white male and I've been terribly wanting to have some sort of change to become especially a black woman at times, or sometimes an Asian girl. Its just a fantasy really, but has anyone ever desired to have a racial change, in addition to a change of your sexual appearance? It would be so cool to me to do something so different and carry on as a minority girl, and embrace that whole culture and their particular feminity, and wear brown-sugar pantyhose, and have everyone acknowledge me as a black girl.

I hope my post wasn't too foreward but I've been wondering if anybody else feels that way. I am 26 years old TBH and I've wanted to appear totally as a girl(but not totally have a sex change.)

My biggest fascination is wearing leotard and tights, and dancing ballet in a ballet class (as a girl of course.) I love wearing leotards and tights, and sexy clothes and imagining I am a hot babe, who enjoys ballet.

Please let me know if anybody has ever had a fantasy about changing from a white male to a black female. I was dreaming of some sort of program or whatever where you could have your skin died, your hair darkened up, etc, and be changed into a pretty black girl.

[docrobbysherry]

Brett, I think I want to appear to be every pretty women I've ever seen. And, when it comes to Anglos, I think I've tried!
But, it's NEVER even occurred to me to try crossing racial lines as well! I guess I'm NOT that ambitious!

I hope u find a way(s) to make your dreams come tru! At your age, you've LOTS of time to figure out how!

[darla_g]

wow that was interesting

[NathalieX66]

fascinating....in the words of Mr. Spock from the old Star Trek tv show.

Perhaps a reverse Michael Jackson?

Nothing beats the imagination of the human mind. Whatever floats your boat.
I'm not much for racial DNA change, or cosmetic operations to achieve such things. We are what we are.

FYI, there is a distinct difference between feitish and roleplay and what our imagination comes up with vs. who we are as people. I found that when I came out to myself late in life. I found out that my fetishes did not correlate with my need to express as the opposite gender. Fetishes can excite anyone, whatever those may be. It's different when you are not happy with the gender constraints that society has imposed on us when we are much more complicated than the rules dictate. To put it simply: I like going out on a saturday night in a cocktail dress as a woman, just simply because I love the fashion options and the opportunity to express myself the way women do. I don't need or want sexual stimulation for this but I try to make an effort to be social with people because I enjoy hanging with people, therefore it's a social need, at least in my case.

Anyway, enjoy yourself. I came to CD'ers.com about 2 & a half years ago with a need to understand myself better. And it worked.

[VioletJourney]

You have to be really careful with that, people might think you're doing a blackface thing and cast you out as a racist. However, if you take it slow and naturally darken your skin (my dad has a skin tone that could pass as African-American), style your hair and everything you could look the way you want.

[Cynthia Anne]

Welcome to the forum! Please note! I do not see race! I do not see color! I do see brothers and sisters no matter what they look like! So know matter who you are I will be proud to be your sister! Hugs!

[Avana]

You have to be really careful with that, people might think you're doing a blackface thing and cast you out as a racist. However, if you take it slow and naturally darken your skin (my dad has a skin tone that could pass as African-American), style your hair and everything you could look the way you want.

honestly there is very little difference between 'blackface' and 'drag', (and many of the ideas people even here have about what it means to be 'feminine' quite honestly), except that one is in fashion and one is not.

[Sedona]

You have to be really careful with that, people might think you're doing a blackface thing and cast you out as a racist.

This should be a no-brainer, blackface is a pretty unique look, and Brett, I trust you'd know when that line is crossed.

Ok, got that out of the way. . .

Brett, I'm biracial (white/black), and have lived in inner cities about half my life. These days, this kind of thing is no big deal. I've met white kids whew grew up "black," black kids who grew up "Latino(a)," Latina kids who grew up "Asian," and so forth. You're pretty young, if you live anywhere near a big city, just go hang out at the food court at a big city mall, you'll see what I mean.

If you want to have "dress up" time at home, by all means, do what you want in terms of fashion/attitude/language. I'm a stay-in dresser myself, and frequently don my hot Latina look at home. Why? I grew up in a border city, and really identify with Mexican culture.

But, if you want to go out and present as a minority, you'll have to approach it all with a more strategic approach. For skin, a good spray tan or judicious use of the sun might help you out, along with jet black hair. There are so many different people out there, especially in big urban areas, you shouldn't have to worry much about what ethnic identity you present as. If you're so inclined, you might just walk around the park, or start with that dance class (or yoga/pilates). Wear your tights/nails little brighter than you might normally, go with hoop earrings a little larger than you'd think. There's no reason to go over-the-top, but a few subtle changes can go a long way to identifying and presenting as a different ethnic group.

Good luck, be sensible (when out), and have fun!

[Karren H]

That is the first time I've heard that here.. Or any where... Personally I always wanted to be a cute female poodle... But I was saving that admission for therapy...

[alice clair]

Karran you are so BAD and the prettiest one here.

[Billie Jean]

I hadn't really considered changing race as I like being human. Definitely would want to be any thing else. Billie Jean

[Brett]

Yes, thank you all for your responses.

It would definitely not be a "blackface" thing...... instead, it is a desire to completely and totally become a black woman. Its that I respect and love their culture and how beautiful black ladies appear, and I respect them and would definitely not want to mock them at all. I would love so much to appear as a black woman totally and be accepted as one.

I know obviously being a white guy atm its something totally out of the blue and probably totally unprecedented.

atm, the extent of my crossdressing activities is dressing up a bit around the house when no one is around. All I have are a few tights and leotards I enjoy wearing, but I certainly don't go out or anything. I project totally as a white male and live 100% as a white guy....... I don't own any wigs or anything. I certainly hope I can increase the scope of my activities and have some outlet to fantasise about myself as a black girl. My early years have been living in kind of a conservative and repressed environment though with not much scope for that sort of thing.

I would love to be a black girl, but atm, its 100% in the realm of fantasy. It would be awesome if one day, it could happen.

[sterling12]

Go to The Library, Take out a Copy of "Black Like Me." A book written many years ago by a reporter who had a Doc give him Melanin Injections so that he could write about his experience of being A Black Man. As I remember, he got very sick a few months later. I think it's very hard on The Body!

Now, I will assume that this is A Fantasy, and it will remain that way. CD's have lots of Fantasies! But, sometimes they turn their Fantasy into reality. These days, I can't imagine you could find a reputable physician who would provide the service of turning your skin black in color, no more than they would do it for A Black Man trying to become a White Woman. (Michael Jackson is the exception, I suppose with enough money you can achieve most anything...but remember, that experiment didn't turn out very well.)

Anyway, stick around and learn. Being Transgendered isn't always about Fantasy's in Your Bedroom. There's a big, wonderful, world out there for T-Folk. Maybe that New Reality could replace your current preoccupation.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Karren H]

Karran you are so BAD and the prettiest one here.

Bark bark... Woof woof woof... That's "thanks... Your too sweet" In poodlese... Been working on my voice! :D

[Ingrid1999]

I have a multi ethnic background and identify as black, but I've long wanted to have thick black asian textured hair, or the native american hair that some of my family have, that skipped me. But that is only because I have always envied asian and native american guys and gals who can wear long and androgynous hairstyles so effortlessly. They are also hot too.

So the grass is always greener on the other side!

That said, black culture is not so very different than any other American culture once you get to know people. And if you make honest friendships, carry yourself with respect and take people for who they are and not who you expect them to be, I've found you can be accepted into any group with time. A number of white americans are family to black americans. Just don't try to pretend, it never works.

[Loni]

i can see the therapist trying to figure this one out?

white guy that likes dressing as a woman wants to become a black woman.
this would give them a headache.
but if you so want to be, start doing your research and get a very dark tan now.
different peoples and even in different city's are just a bit different then else were.
go to the inner city and just people watch.
sadly to get your skin dark, it will be leather when you get older.

.

[Barbara Dugan]

I am Mexican with a multi ethnic background and Every once in a while somebody ask me what race I am mostly when dressed...I think the way you dress can influence the way people perceive your ethnic background

[Audrey34]

Very interesting thread. I must admit I never thought about dressing up as any other ethnicity because......I just never did! LOL.... I wish you luck on your journey. And by the way, there are many different skin tones for black women ranging from very light to very dark. And I would definitely check out the film "Black Like Me". It was published in 1961 and was quite an eye opener for much of non-black America at the time (as well as some segments of black America too). And the film adaptation that came out in 1964 was very good.
-Audrey

[Brett]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback.

The subject of changing race and gender, especially from a white male to a black female, is something i've not ever seen hardly even on the internet (any good links to relevant internet content would be much appreciated btw.) I know its a bit "out-there," but one day about 2 years ago, something just clicked for me......... I think its because I had fantasised about becoming just merely a white girl since I was about 6 or 7, and I think perhaps I had gotten mentally bored with that, so I needed the new texture and element of a racial change as well. It just would have been a huge extra kick for me to become a black girl, and be treated as such, and live the lifestyle. Besides that, I do completely respect black women and think they are gorgeous.

I hope expressing such a thing isn't offensive to anybody btw. I admit it is my "bedroom fantasy." it would be very cool for it to become reality for me one day, but that day seems so far off.

It may be impossible, but I sort of imagined some kind of permanent tan that could be reapplied only sporadically, or mabye melanin-treatment as was said. I have to hope some doctor could perform such a treatment somewhere. I can't imagine it would be too difficult really, but more so just very rare. Not many white guys would voluntarily want to become black females.

I would like to be a darker skinned black girl, of course. I imagined that I could have my hair styled and treated to have that jet-black hair, and then done up in cute styles with beads and braids, or curls. My white-boy hair would become completely ravenous........ I could go to an African hair-braiding parlor and just have all sorts of "do's" to choose from. It would be so much fun. I could try and look like Gabrielle Union. I dont' know what my name would be though... hopefully nothing stereotypical like "Tanisha," but I could go with that. Mabye something typical like "Tanisha Jackson?"

Of course I could take hormones. I'd love to gain weight in the right places on my rear-end, so I have delicious curves, and I could mabye have large breast implants, or wear fake ones for the time being, but mabye grow my own? Wow ! I hope it wouldn't be too much or too crazy, but I love how black women are often built with amazing curves. I'd love to be that way.

For my face, I imagine I could get my nose redone to become sort of broad, and mabye lip injections for big full lips. Then, I could look completely like a black lady from head to toe. No one would ever now.

Then I could start my ballerina lessons !!

Also, yes, I have read "Black Like Me." Wasn't really my inspiration of course. I can't pinpoint the development of my fantasy on one thing really. I would love for it to happen though.

I hope this isn't too off-color........ I've gone to those "Oriental Massage Parlors," and spilled out my whole fantasy to the girls working there. They were more than happy to give me the right "oral stimulation" to help me mentally invision my fantasy while they "worked on me." It took a bit of explaining to tell them how I dreamed of being a black girl, but they were able to tell me all sorts of fun things about going out with black guys and stuff like that while I was being worked on. It was Awesome !!

One time recently, I even took tights and leotards in there, and me and my girl both dressed up in white ballet tights and a blue and a pink leotard. We went through all sorts of roleplay, a massage, and she completely indulged my fantasy while I had my outfit on. It was indescribeably incredible. I'd love to take it further. It was so much fun getting dressed up, and she was able to just give me an incredible time and make me feel totally like a black girl. She understood totally how I wanted to feel, and treated me as such while I was dressed, as if I would be dating black guys, and going to dance class or mabye some sort of an afro-dance class, getting my hair-braided. I felt so alive ! It was all so great.

Again, I really really hope I didn't go too far for this forum, but I hope it wasn't a problem for me to express all of this.

[Sedona]

Brett, you're clearly on the fetishistic end of the spectrum. Probably, well, definitely too much detail, and I can see some people being offended. But, really, is your particular kink any different than many of the rest of us who get our kicks by putting on lipstick and sexy heels and taking the parts we want from womanhood, while ignoring the parts that don't suit us? IMO, not really.

Best, and good luck,

[pinto]

Wow, exactly what I was dreaming of for years. Brett I apreciate your openness and I love the way you are telling all this. All these details exactly match all my phantasies.
Much to my regret I was feeling I am the only one on this world who is having the desire to become a black woman. Now I found that there is at least another one having the same urges. Thanks Brett.

Greetings Pinto

[Sara Jessica]

I'm kind of feeling like the AFLAC duck as he shook his head incredulously after Yogi Berra spoke to him.

But I bet the duck didn't feel he had to shower afterwards.


Wow, exactly what I was dreaming of for years.

Holy smoke, a two-for-one. I'm thinking an entirely new section is in the offing!!!

[Genivieve]

I'd love to be an asian girl or maybe a pale blond white girl. However when I have the perfect makeup session I realize I look like my mom and some of my aunts. It makes me kind of flush thinking that I would look like that if I was born a girl.

[Badtranny]

I love love love this thread.

Brett you are a freak and I mean that in the best possible way. My kind of freak. ;-)

I tend to be a rather vanilla girl (no pun intended) but this is by and large a very conservative group populated by people who consider themselves to be straight, and I can almost hear some minds bending over your incredibly fascinating posts.

You go girl.

[pinto]

A pale blonde would also be nice. At least something completely different.

My preferences:

1) a black bbw
2) a slim chinese
3) a short and skinny japanese
4) a very pale and slim blonde

any others? i will report.

[Sedona]

It's a bizarre thread to be sure, probably offensive to some (part of me is offended), but it's an honest one. Personally, I'm glad the mods aren't locking this one up.

[Brett]

^ hey Pinto, hey BadTranny.

Yes !! LIVE THE DREAM !! Oh yes it would be so great to become a black girl and get my "swag" on. how incredibly different and exciting it would be than living as a placid and dull white male. Can you imagine??

It seems so far out of the realm of reality, but the sheer scope of it all is precisely what makes it so alluring. (I dream big.)

Yes, being a sexy black ballerina would be cool as well, with amazing hips, and my black legs inside of white tights. I would just love to be a black girl and be so sexy and confident as they are.

[JessicaD]

this is very interesting, although i would settle for just white female as apposed to my white male self.

[Avana]

^ hey Pinto, hey BadTranny.

Yes !! LIVE THE DREAM !! Oh yes it would be so great to become a black girl and get my "swag" on. how incredibly different and exciting it would be than living as a placid and dull white male. Can you imagine??

It seems so far out of the realm of reality, but the sheer scope of it all is precisely what makes it so alluring. (I dream big.)

Yes, being a sexy black ballerina would be cool as well, with amazing hips, and my black legs inside of white tights. I would just love to be a black girl and be so sexy and confident as they are.


Wow... white + male privilege guilt much?

Your post is rather prejudiced and filled with stereotypes.

confidence, sexiness, and 'swag', as you say, are not racial in nature.

The main thing that is 'far out of the realm of reality' is your preconception and objectification of black women.

Just out of curiosity, where are you from? What is your main connection to black women? Television? Friends? Neighbors?

You speak about this issue in two contradictory tones - on one hand I can understand identification with another race but on the other hand I see someone who is just looking for an adventure or thrill, reducing the entire collective experience of a race and gender to a stereotypical 'costume'.

[Brett]

^ yes, white-female would be fun as well........ its fun here, at the gender-ethnicity-change thread, for sure.

I used to fantasize much about becoming a beautiful white girl as well, but part of me got burnt out on that theme a bit after years and years, and I began to desire a new twist on the theme so badly. Black girls have alot of overt-feminity as well, and they express themselves so uniquely and beautifully, that it just appeals to me so much.

Black ladies have such a fun fashion that I would love to be able to participate in, with fun tights and colorful clothes. Its so much fun when they get their hair braided and have a close "sistahood." I would love the same and to be accepted into their closeness. I'd love to be accepted as a black lady, and have an amazing figure and gorgeous skin as they have........... to wear cute outfits with great exciting styles.......... that would be so unbelieveably great.

(^ edit to below poster....... yes, I am still "learning" and trying to shed my "privileged" white-male identity. I am sure I am very "far-off," but I'm very acommodating and willing to learn. I admit I've lived sort of a frat-boy lily-white Republican life to date, but I am completely open minded.

Yes, it is something I want to do so badly. I'm sure people can forgive if I have a "poor choice of words," I want terribly to learn, and my admiring of what i perceive of as their culture is an acknowledgement of how great it is and I want to participate.

Also, what is wrong with "confidence, sexiness and swag???........... those are positive attributes!!, not stereotypes")

[Avana]

(^ edit to below poster....... yes, I am still "learning" and trying to shed my "privileged" white-male identity. I am sure I am very "far-off," but I'm very acommodating and willing to learn. I admit I've lived sort of a frat-boy lily-white Republican life to date, but I am completely open minded.

Yes, it is something I want to do so badly. I'm sure people can forgive if I have a "poor choice of words," I want terribly to learn, and my admiring of what i perceive of as their culture is an acknowledgement of how great it is and I want to participate.

Also, what is wrong with "confidence, sexiness and swag???........... those are positive attributes!!, not stereotypes")

Nothing at all is wrong with those three things. But you can be all of those without disguising yourself with a stereotypical 'black' costume.

If you are willing to learn, I would strongly suggest you do check out the 'black like me' book posted earlier (there is also a documentary), and also read up on some other race studies material - a good, short read with a silly title is Why Do Black People Love Fried Chicken? And Other Questions You've Wondered But Didn't Dare Ask by Nashieqa Washington (http://www.amazon.com/Black-People-Chicken-Questions-Wondered/dp/0977792102)

I, too, admire many black women, and I count women such as Grace Jones, Sade, Maya Angelou, Donna Summer, Josephine Baker, Patrice Rushen, Diana Ross, and many more among my influences and pantheon of idols. But it's because they are amazing people (obviously i admire their musical talents).

[Brett]

^ Will do, thank you !!

It will be fun to learn, indeed, and immerse myself in the culture and hopefully learn everything I need to know to become a functional black woman.

I can't help but admit that perhaps, as a black woman, I might indeed be a more "stereotypical" black woman and indulge in all I've mentioned, like getting my hair braided alot. Still, I would definitely be accommodating and want to totally immerse myself in the culture and live seamlessly as a gorgeous woman and not just wear some "silly costume." It will definitely take work and studying on my part, but I would love to do it! As I said, it would be total respect of their culture on my part, and yes, i still have to learn what is and isn't "PC" and a stereotype. It would be cool to have a black girl(s) actually coach me in my transition, train me to be one of them in personality and physical appearance, and help me blend in with them and be one of the girlz.

I would want to fit in totally and be a black girl 24/7, and one that fit in so well as to be indistinguishable. The old me would be totally gone.

[Avana]

^ Will do, thank you !!

It will be fun to learn, indeed, and immerse myself in the culture and hopefully learn everything I need to know to become a functional black woman.

I can't help but admit that perhaps, as a black woman, I might indeed be a more "stereotypical" black woman and indulge in all I've mentioned, like getting my hair braided alot. Still, I would definitely be accommodating and want to totally immerse myself in the culture and live seamlessly as a gorgeous woman and not just wear some "silly costume." It will definitely take work and studying on my part, but I would love to do it! As I said, it would be total respect of their culture on my part, and yes, i still have to learn what is and isn't "PC" and a stereotype. It would be cool to have a black girl(s) actually coach me in my transition and help me blend in with them and be one of the girlz.

I would want to fit in totally and be a black girl 24/7, and one that fit in so well as to be indistinguishable. The old me would be totally gone.

I think your honesty will help you mostly, but at times it could put you in danger of offending or hurting others ... so good luck.

[Brett]

^ I'm really hoping actually to shed my remaining inhibitions and perhaps even going ahead with my transition to a black girl. Live the dream and better to assert what you want rather than be timid and deny yourself because ur afraid of stepping on tiptoes, I say. Yep, my honestly may offend a few, but I think it may pay bigger dividends.

Mabye I'll look forward and be able to report my progress in this direction on this thread?

[Avana]

^ I'm really hoping actually to shed my remaining inhibitions and perhaps even going ahead with my transition to a black girl. Live the dream and better to assert what you want rather than be timid and deny yourself because ur afraid of stepping on tiptoes, I say. Yep, my honestly may offend a few, but I think it may pay bigger dividends.

Mabye I'll look forward and be able to report my progress in this direction on this thread?

It's definitely an interesting frontier. As a transgender woman I have thought a lot about how my identity relates to my body and various forms of expression, and in thinking about this I have often winded up thinking about a concept of 'trans-race' analogous to 'trans-gender'.

Gender, unlike race, is often (but definitely not always) related to sexual characteristics, which is why many transgender patients undergo treatment to modify their sexual characteristics. There is actually a female hormone and a male hormone to control the development of these characteristics. But there is no 'white hormone' or 'black hormone'.

But race is a far more nebulous and fluid concept than gender, at least at this point in time. Consider that in the previous century, just one distant african relative in an otherwise european pedigree would automatically render you 'black'. Yet now we have people who are half-african, half white (Barack Obama) who are sometimes claimed by Blacks, and other times (vehemently) rejected. We have mixed race people like Vin Diesel (aka Mark Sinclair), who is of mixed race, and who hundreds of years ago would have been undeniably black, yet today rejects black identity and is seen by generally everyone as 'white'.

Some anthropologists dispute the notion of race entirely, since we are so mixed, genetically.

See there are still rigid gender roles in society, but race roles, not as much. You say you want to be 'black' but that doesn't really actually mean much anymore unless you cling to a stereotype. And you aren't going to see a 'Black Clothing' section in a store or a 'White Clothing' section, or any other race section. And we don't segregate our bathrooms, etc.

So the concept of trans-race is troublesome to me because I find it difficult to understand how you can create such a direct transitional relationship from one extraordinary nebulous construct to another, without any actual physiological basis for doing so.

I think it would be fantastic if gender was also so nebulous, but it's much farther behind IMO than race in terms of evolution.

[Diane Smith]

Brett, one thing you've mentioned a few times is getting your hair done in a typically African-American style -- braids, beads, weaves, and all that. It just happens that my nail technician is African-American and works in her sister's hair salon. The sister is a master of black hair and does incredible work with weaves, wigs and extensions. (Tammy doesn't do braids, but she occasionally has a specialist braider come in at a client's request.) I see lots of very pretty ladies in the shop getting amazing hairstyles every time I'm in there.

Here's the thing -- I always go to my nail appointments fully dressed and am well known and accepted around the salon. Tammy is always trying to get me in her chair to put a fancy weave on me. She thinks I'd look good in a typically "black" hair style. I would be totally down with this and would do it in a heartbeat except that I'd have to take it off after a day or two when I go back into "pumpkin" mode for work, and it's a lot of time and expense to just keep it for a short time.

I made the acquaintance of another African-American stylist in town once, and she made almost exactly the same offer to me. These women are just about fighting over me to do something fancy with my hair.

My point with all this is that if you want the hair, just make an appointment at a quality African-American salon and go do it! I'm sure there are a few in every decent-sized city. To be honest, the stylist may want to get to know you and your style a little bit before they would suggest an all-out weave with braids and all, so you may want to start out with something more conservative, but if you seem sane enough and express a sincere interest in what they do, I'm certain you can find someone who will oblige with as wicked a hairstyle as you want.

Your skin tone has little to do with this, and all the black stylists I've met are used to working with all shades of black, brown, red and blonde hair (sometimes several of those at once, in fact!). Black women aren't looked down upon for lightening, coloring and straightening their hair, so there's a tremendous variety in what you can do in an African-American salon. I say, go for it (and send us pictures after you have it done!).

- Diane

[Vickie_CDTV]

Although this kind of thing probably sounds ridiculous to many (especially at the TS end of the spectrum), it is important to remember that some dress purely for fun and/or pleasure and some want to take a change of identity beyond just gender. While it isn't real common, I have known other dressers who desire to dress up as a woman of a different race, a different age (from baby to elderly woman), to being a pregnant woman, and on and on. Again, it is certainly not most folks' cup of tea, and I am certainly not condoning any kind of crude behavior, but many cisgender folks might say the same things about crossdressers for wanting to cross the gender line.

Incidentally, there was an article about this in an old issue of Ladylike Magazine and someone (white) sent in pics of themselves as a black woman. She looked quite convincing and dignified and was not one of those awful racial caricatures that may come to mind.

[Avana]

Also, full disclosure -

my interest in this topic stems from the fact that I have myself felt quite connected to various other cultures in my (short) lifetime, and perhaps even have felt the pangs of racial dysphoria. I think mostly I just didn't like not being able to be whatever I wanted to be.

I am a musician and DJ, and I have a fondness for and intense admiration and collection of musics of all cultures, but especially black music, specifically soul, funk, jazz, underground (black & gay) disco, house, r&b, dub reggae, and techno, all of which were mostly originated by black musicians (though these artists definitely had all sorts of white influences themselves - it is a very tangled web!) I feel a definite emotional and spiritual connection to the soul and rhythmic traditions in Black music, and also the alternative mythologies of afrocentrism and afrofuturism. I read quite a bit about race, especially as it relates to the intersection of art, music, and politics.

My explorations in music and particularly my experience of music and dancing in certain social and cultural circles here in NYC has resulted in my feeling much more comfortable and 'at home' in mixed race or black crowds. It also happens to be the case that I live in a neighborhood that is 85% black (bed stuy brooklyn)

Besides this, my political leanings and marginalized experience as a queer transgender person have led me to empathize and desire solidarity of sorts with other marginalized groups of people, minority races included. Though they don't always empathize with me! LOL. I identify especially with separatist politics, those marginalized groups who celebrate their uniqueness as a strength rather than try to assimilate or accept a dominant culture's designation of weakness.

Yet I don't feel like I should have been born black, as I feel like I should have been born female. And certainly if I did, it would be less meaningful, as there are technically no truly distinctive, definite differences between races.

The other trans-cultural experience I had was I dated a girl from puerto rico for many years when I was younger, and she totally immersed me in her culture. I learned spanish with and for her, visited her extended family many times in puerto rico, and I actually made efforts to make myself appear latin physically. As someone of italian (sicilian) descent, it wasn't much of a stretch, but i was tanning extra to change my skin color, and i adopted several additional hobbies and what not such as lifting weights and listening to latin music, and learning latin dance, as I attempted to immerse myself in her culture. I found myself surrounded by latin friends of all sorts, speaking spanish all the time, and generally expanded my worldview to include this girl's.

And my current girlfriend of 2.5 years is Punjabi, but her family has assimilated to a great degree in western culture, and she does not make much at all of her heritage and as a result I have not felt any such connection to her culture.

All of these experiences combined however, have only inspired me to think beyond race, not to long to embrace any particular one. But I am genetically 'white', and it is important to remember that this makes me part of the dominant culture, whether I like it or not, and so as much as I believe in transcending race, I never forget that I can never truly get past it, and I never should, because to do so would be to deny the trials and tribulations of all of the minority races who have suffered at the hands of the dominant culture, which I find unacceptable.

[Sedona]

Great post Avana!

Brett, I love Diane's suggestions about the hair salons. But, it should go without saying that when you go in, be sure to avoid using the expressions "you all," and "all you people" in any context. ;)

Brett, just throwing it out there, as I don't know your relationship status. This is probably a little personal, but a (really accepting, laid back) black girlfriend might be a good thing for you.

[Brett]

Would be fun to have a caring black girl(friend) who could totally coach me, understand me, and facilitate the process of my transition. She could totally coach me on my new peronsality, and tell me what i should and shouldn't say at the hair-braiding parlor, and instruct me on how to completely fit in. She could share with me all of her beauty tips, fashion tips, and get me completely looking and acting like one of the black girls. It would be so great to have such a caring girl or woman in your life who could give you that............. Such a girl(friend) could teach me totally how to be a black girl just like her, from head to toe. When we go out, we could be as 2 black girls, shopping for the latest fashions, and just having a great time as 2 sisters.

I am definitely looking forward to going to the stylist especially. As I said, I would want to be a totally darker-skinned black girl.... not more on the mixed-race end like "Vin Diesel." I would want to be totally convincing, not some "racial-chariacature"........... totally made up and put together in a way that would honor and respect my new ethnicity and gender, and i could fit in totally in a complete way.

I know there isn't a clear cut line between white and black, as the poster said, but my desire is just to be visibly identified as a black girl........ I think most people still just look and say, "that dude is white, he's black, he's asian, he's mixed, etc." I want that to be their new first-impression of me. Mabye a bit on the fetishistic end, I suppose, but that's just how I terribly desire to identify.

[Avana]

Brett, just throwing it out there, as I don't know your relationship status. This is probably a little personal, but a (really accepting, laid back) black girlfriend might be a good thing for you.

That sounds like a horrible reason to start a relationship IMO.


Now it's starting to sound like avatar, the ultimate white guilt fantasy movie.

[jacques]

hello,
in my closet CD world I can be any girl I want to be - Oh it would be nice to be young, gifted and black.
luv, J

[Ingrid1999]

On a serious note, if you want to be accepted into the black community, just be yourself.
If you want to learn about the culture, be honest. Do not try to "act black". Just relax. If you have an interest in something specific in the "black" cultural experience,be it fashion, music, food, literature or art, pursue that, learn about it and make friends and be a friend.

White people have become part of the black community, the musician Teena Marie for example. So just be yourself. Otherwise you will come off like "Mrs Garrison" on "South Park".

[pinto]

First I think this thread should not offend or discriminate anybody. In my opinion Brett is appreciating the beauty and elegance of black ladies. It's a matter of personal taste if one likes it or not. There are white men who prefer black ladies or black men who prefer white women etc. and nobody would call these preferences an offense or discrimination of other people, nations or races - it's all just a matter of individual taste. If Brett loves to be woman nobody would call it an offense against men. If it happens to be black lady (whom he seems to adore) - who cares? It's his indidual preference. Besides - its mine too.
So Brett, if it's possible I would like to join your way in order to become a black lady. Just because I share your dreams and thoughts. Maybe it will be possible one day to receive a black skin and a matching face. Then maybe both of us could go out together as two black lady girlfriends.

[Brett]

^ hey Pinto...... yes, I would love to go out one day as 2 totally convincing black girlfriends...... so much fun. Noone would know that the 2 lovely black ladies in tights were once regular white guys...... wouldn't that be something??..... going to the club, to the hair-braiding parlor, clothes shopping at a trendy store, etc etc. wow, such fun !!

i wish you, Pinto, so much luck on your journey, and I hope you can take your fantasy as far as you want and even make it totally a reality. Yes, I realize that the novelty of such we are describing here may be initially "offensve" to some because they haven't seen it before and it drops in their lap like a bomb. But yet, we all come out of the closet. Its no more offensive than intterracial-couples, but instead, interracial crossdressing !! It will be so great........... (yep, we must always tiptoe around "racial" topics, but if it was a black person wanting to become a white person, I doubt anyone would find it somehow terribly "offensive" towards white folks.)

yes Pinto, you can totally join my way, and be completely transformed and made up into becoming a black lady. I'm sure you will look totally beautiful and so exotic. You'll have such fun getting dressed up and getting some "attitude," and building your new personality and sexuality. Good luck Girlfriend !! Mabye you can even pick out your new name for how you will be as a black girl?

[pinto]

Good luck to you too Brett. Maybe there are hidden ways to achieve our goal, who knows...

I prefer the name Fayola. Yes, Fayola would be a good choice. And yours?

[Brett]

^ I would become Tanisha, Fayola. Fayola is a lovely name indeed. you will be such a gorgeous black girl. Yep, it will be such a juxtapose to go from a preppy and pale white-boy to a luscious black lady named Tanisha. I can't wait !! It would be so much fun to go reintroduce myself as Tanisha to all my old acquaintences who knew me as Brett, the bland white guy I used to be! Introduce 'Tanisha' to my old girlfriends and my family....... Yippie!! What fun to go show them my tights, my sexy ebony looks, and my new sassy African-American feminine personality with my urban inflection.

I feel strongly as well, Fayola, with modern medicine, and plastic surgery, good doctors will be able to change us to what we want! Mabye contact a plastic surgeoun with an email inquiry and see his reccommendations?

Good luck, Fayola, please become beautiful and the black woman you were meant to be.

(edit question) Also, Fayola, if u don't mind me asking, what is your inspiration for wanting to be a black lady?

[Brett]

yep, Fayola........... it would be fun to know like what got you feeling strongly about how you wanted to be a black woman in the first place............ what would be your most fun and sexy "coming out outfit" as Fayola?....... how would you like to be dressed as a black lady?.......... What is the sexy hairstyle you'd most like to have?......... so much fun. How do you invision yourself as Fayola? What are some things you would like to do as girlfriends? Its so exciting indeed to plan out such a new exciting lifestyle.

[pinto]

Good question Tanisha. I don't really know how to explain but let me try: First it's the kind of beauty those women inherit. It's a kind of superior beauty and elegance. Then it's (I admit) some exotic flair. It's also their understanding of the role of a woman. In my opinion they are more womanlike then others. They seem to enjoy beeing a woman - yes I know, others will come now and tell it's not true - but these are my expriences. Maybe just aprejudice.

[Sedona]

That sounds like a horrible reason to start a relationship IMO.


Now it's starting to sound like avatar, the ultimate white guilt fantasy movie.


Avana, 99% of me agrees with you. But, there's probably that 1% of black women who might get a kick out of Brett and not get too stressed about it all. If they're attracted to each other, why not? It takes all kinds, right?

[pinto]

The idea of introducing my new self to my family is thrilling. "Hallo everybody, this is Fayola, the new member of the family, whether you like it or not, it is NOT REVERSIBLE!" The absolute thrill for me.

[Brett]

Yep, black ladies definitely seem to me to have that extra element of confidence, assertiveness, and beauty. I think they are simply gorgeous and the paragon of femininity and beauty. well, I may be making generalization(s) here, but hopefully I'm shooting for the rule, not the exception !