terrible weekend

[jillcutie]

I have been growing out my hair for a few months now and it was really bothering my SO. we got into a fight about it and I ended up storming off and got all my hair cut off into a brush cut. I'm regretting this every time I look in the mirror or feel my hair. my SO used to be so supportive of me but now tells me she wants me to stop dressing, which I told her I couldn't do. She's told me that she doesn't want to divorce me, I think she does but doesn't want to go through all the work of splitting everything up. It wasn't until we were actually married that the problems of my dressing came up. I didn't end up dressing this weekend like I had planned. I'm not sure if I should lay low for a while and fix the relationship or push my dressing on her and possibly end it.

[Karren H]

Awww... Sounds like she either had a change of heart which the rubber band effect is not uncommon or she thought she could "cure" you after you got married.... Either way you need choose a path and go that way else your going to be stuck in limbo land for the rest of your life...

[AllieSF]

If this is a relatively new reaction and attitude from her, I would recommend counseling to sort out the real reasons. You may find a surprise hidden in there and maybe the truth will come out. If that does not work, I like Karren's advice. Good luck.

[Linda St. John]

Good advice above ...I wouldn't push it right now unless you've already decided on how it's gonna end.

[ReineD]

My SO used to be so supportive of me but now tells me she wants me to stop dressing, which I told her I couldn't do. She's told me that she doesn't want to divorce me, I think she does but doesn't want to go through all the work of splitting everything up. It wasn't until we were actually married that the problems of my dressing came up. I didn't end up dressing this weekend like I had planned. I'm not sure if I should lay low for a while and fix the relationship or push my dressing on her and possibly end it.

If she says she doesn't want to divorce you, then please don't read more into what she says. Instead, ask her why she is changing her mind about the CDing. Here's my guess: you've been growing your hair, and perhaps you've been growing your nails or shaving more of your body hair? This can be scary for a SO who doesn't understand the need to not look like a guy in a dress. If the two of you haven't talked about this, she may be thinking that you are on your way to wanting to transition. Are you dressing more frequently, or has your wardrobe increased? Are you spending more time online with CDing activities? Have you got your ears pierced? My SO made all these changes after coming out to me and I did think that he would eventually want to take hormones or live full time, especially after reading threads around here from all the CDs who say they would be women FT if they could. :p

I wouldn't push it on her right now. The two of you need to talk in depth about the CDing: what your goals are (do you want to go out and blend believably), what changes you feel you need to make to your body in order to accomplish your goals, and how far you feel it will all go. Be honest with her. If you know that you do enjoy your guy self and you do not see yourself becoming a woman, then you need to tell your wife this. You also need to balance your time (if you don't do this already) between guy and girl activities with her.

So ... what other changes have been going on with the CDing? :)

[Tara D. Rose]

Oh counceling smounceling. Why does everyone say go to counceling? Been there done that several times, as well as thousands of others. They don't care, they just want your money. But hey, my wife is the same way. I read so many stories like this and it's the same old broken record. You have choices. You can do as she TELLS you to do, and that is to give up your crossdressing, which is a part of you. And then if you make the decision to quit crossdressing,( then live very unhappy), you get to keep her. Then life goes on. Then she learns from that ultimatum, then later on , she will demand that you quit something else, and it will never end. Then the jaws of freedom clamps down tighter and tighter until you cannot breathe. Look at all the marriages that split for all the other reasons, and that crossdressing is not one of those reasons. My wife was supposed to be one of these more open minded types, well she is now like all the others. She acts like she just found out about it yesterday.
Crossdressing and marriage can work out in some rare circumstances when boundaries are set at what she can feel comfortable with, and that both parties comply and abide by forthset boundaries and or rules, etc. Can you live without crossdressing, can you give it up for her? Can you stick to that for life???? Do you think you will tell her that you will give crossdressing up, with the intentions to do it behind her back???,,,,and then get caught doing it later on???? We and or I, cannot give you all the answers, for we/I need to know if you could and/or would give crossdressing up for life to please your wife? If the answer is yes, you could give it up for life, then give it up. But only you know how strong your desires are for crossdressing, if you know deep inside that crossdressing will always be a part of you and that you must dress or live in that other persona but finding somewhere in the future that you have to do it in secret behind her back,,,,,then,,, give her up and TRY to find happiness with crossdressing being a part of your life,,,and live a life of “HOPE” for happiness instead of “CERTAINTY” of misery and unhappiness and unfulfillment as I live, as well as so many other crossdressers.
It’s really more complicated than I or any on here can put into words. It’s a formula of how much your desire is to crossdress? Will it go as far as full transitioning? How much is your wife willing to accept? There are so many variables too numerous to mention.
I too am at the very same cross roads for which I speak of. I went to marriage counseling in my first marriage and then like a fool in my second marriage. Both first marriages failed. Both “so called” marriage counselors were big fat ugly women that hated men in general. Both marriage counselors that we saw had two divorces under their belt. And so the question arises, who are they do advise or council me on a successful marriage when they could not keep their own marriage afloat?? The same goes for these “so called” councelors of marriage where the husband is a crossdresser? Is the counselor a man? Crossdresser? Or is it a woman married to a non crossdresser husband and the marriage has been successful? So I speak from my own experience. I am unhappy in marriage. My desire to crossdress gets so overwhelming sometimes that I “MUST” dress no matter what. My supposedly understanding and supposedly 100% accepting wife, that promised me so many things by way of crossdressing pulled the plug on me many times. I don’t mean to carry on, but heed my words, there is no such thing as a 100% totally accepting wife to a husband that minimally crossdresses and abides to the boundaries for which they have both agreed upon. But to be straightforward in answering your question, take one or the other. You’re at a cross roads, take the corssdressing and leave her, or give up crossdressing and keep her. Marriage is already so complicated without all of the stigmatisms that are so wrongly attached to crossdressing by our so called , society, that we find ourselves,(crossdressers), that we cannot have it all. So Jillcutie,,,,,take one path or the other one. They do not go hand in hand. Should you stay married and crossdress, your wife will be very un happy for the sake of you being happy. She will always feel that you are not normal. I hope that I do not get attacked too much for giving you this heartfelt advice speaking from my own experience and from all the many reads that I have covered, but I do know, that a crossdresser cannot have it all. You must take one road or the other one…….love & respect……….Tara

[BRANDYJ]

With little information about you, length of marriage, age etc., it's hard to give good advice. But call me the romantic or whatever, but I know me, if my changiong things like my hair, painted nails or whatever else you are doing that is bothering her started to become between us, I'd stop and doi all I could to mend the marriage. My SO is more important to me then crossdressing. As a couple, we both have to ofind a comfort level we both can live with. if you are starting to become more and more feminine,more then she bargained for when she accepted this side of you, I can understand her fearing that she is losing you to the woman that lives inside of you...so to speak. We can't have everything we want in life if we have a partner to consider. It might be that you,ve been pushing to much on her. So it's time to analyize what it is you want perhaps. But I'd sure be talking to my wife and finding out what boundaries she would like to place on your dressing or body modifications, such as the length of your hair. What's more important to you... your wife or your own feminine styled hair. For le youme a wig will do. But to cause problems in my mariage will not do. Please stop and consider what it is your wife wantsd and put your own wants aside for a moment while you consider what's more important to you...Your marriage or your pushing the fem side of you. I wish you luck.

[ReineD]

I don’t mean to carry on, but heed my words, there is no such thing as a 100% totally accepting wife to a husband that minimally crossdresses and abides to the boundaries for which they have both agreed upon. But to be straightforward in answering your question, take one or the other. You’re at a cross roads, take the corssdressing and leave her, or give up crossdressing and keep her.

Wow! You are bitter. :sad:

I don't mean to dismiss your experiences and I'm sorry you had such disastrous outcomes with marital counselors and your previous and current marriages. But, I can say that your statement above is categorically NOT true for me, nor is it true for the hundreds of CDers in this forum whose wives know and are supportive (to varying degrees).

It is not as black and white, all or nothing as you make it all to be and I do want to make sure the OP knows this.

Again, I'm sorry for whatever has happened with your partners. Maybe there were other issues than the CDing that made it difficult for them to acknowledge your need to CD? I don't want to begin a debate about this in Jill's thread, but it may be something you'll want to think about. :sad:

[kendra_gurl]

Just read post #5 again and answer to yourself honestly everything Reine ended with a ? mark I bet you find out why your wife has a change of heart

[Cynthia Anne]

I have a sneaky feeling that Karen is right! Cousel may help!

[Fab Karen]

Might be a case of before marriage,"oh that's not a big deal" & then once the contract is signed, BOOM "you have to CHANGE to make me happy." Couples counseling might help ( unless she's a bible thumper ).
btw I am NOT implying all women do this.

[docrobbysherry]

Jill, the bottom line is NOT about your hair or dressing. It's about whether or not u 2 enjoy being with each enuff to work out compromises that work for BOTH of u!

When ONE of u gives up, u may as well separate! Stick a fork in it, 'cause u can stay together, but you're marriage is DONE!

[Sophie86]

I don't mean to imply that this is what's happening in this case, but consider this analogy, because I'm sure it happens in some cases....

Before their marriage, a guy tells his gf that he likes to golf. She says, "Oh, that's nice. It sounds like fun." So he takes her to the golf course a few times during their courtship, and they have a good time. Everything is great.

After they're married, though, he starts wanting to go golfing every weekend, and sometimes he wants to golf all weekend. He starts planning vacations around golfing. He wants to spend large sums of money on golf clubs, golf lessons, and country club memberships.

At first, she tries to let him have his hobby, even though she's lost interest in it herself. But then he meets some golfing buddies, and he starts wanting to spend tons of time around them. The couple starts to argue about how much time he's spending on it. When he's not out golfing, he's shopping for golfing, or talking about golfing. Finally, one day as he's walking out the door to go golfing yet again, she screams at him: "I HATE GOLFING!!!!"

So he goes down to the green and tells his buddies, "I don't know what her problem is! She liked golfing before we got married!!"

Just something to think about.

[ReineD]

You nailed it, Sophie! :)

[Sophie86]

You nailed it, Sophie! :)

See? I do listen. :)

[sissystephanie]

I guess what it boils down to is where your true love is!! Is it for your crossdressing, or for your wife? Sounds to me like you don't really know!! BTW, you have already told her that you can't stop crossdressing whcih is not true!! You can stop, but only if YOU WANT TO!! And from your OP, you don't want to! So back to where your love is the strongest, wife or crossdressing??

[Jamie001]

Stephanie,

You advice that you can stop dressing does not work for the majority and statistically it isn't correct. Many of us have tried to stop dressing and to fit-in to the binary male gender role and have failed many times. When a lot of TG folks stop dressing and attempt to live a a cisgendered "normal" male, problems manifest in other areas. Many times these problems are very severe such as manic depression, physical ailments, psychological issues such as inability to concentrate, having a lack of patience, and severe irritability. These are just some of the problem that come-up for a lot of us because we are suppressing a very strong part of our personality and attempting to live a lie by conforming to a rigid gender standard that we don't embrace. Therefore, it is not true that everyone can "stop dressing". They may be able to stop dressing, but in most cases, they will pay in other areas of their lives, and the cost may be much worse then the issues experiences while dressing.


I guess what it boils down to is where your true love is!! Is it for your crossdressing, or for your wife? Sounds to me like you don't really know!! BTW, you have already told her that you can't stop crossdressing whcih is not true!! You can stop, but only if YOU WANT TO!! And from your OP, you don't want to! So back to where your love is the strongest, wife or crossdressing??

[ReineD]

You can stop, but only if YOU WANT TO!! And from your OP, you don't want to! So back to where your love is the strongest, wife or crossdressing??

It's not that simple, Stephanie.

I know your story well. You've been CDing for 60 years, and when your wife was alive she supported you fully by styling your wig and also helping with your makeup. You no longer wear wig and makeup, since you aren't as good at it as she was, but you do go out dressed frequently and you seldom encounter problems. Admittedly, it does get easier when people are in their 70s. lol. Septuagenarians have earned the right to do as they darn well please, IMO, and also gender lines tend to blur as we age since men and women naturally lose testosterone and estrogen. :)

Anyway, throughout all of this, you've identified as a man and you still continue to do so. You believe that anyone can stop if they want to and you gladly will not dress in front of your non-accepting children.

Did I get it right?

You represent just ONE of many segments of the CDing population here. It might well be a hobby for some that they can stop at will. For others, it is a matter of personal identity, even if they are not TS. They cannot suppress their need to express their feminine sides, even though the desires may ebb and flow throughout a lifetime. My own SO fits into this category. Some CDers would go into severe depressive states if they could not express themselves. For others it is a question of personal freedom to wear the clothing they feel comfortable in, and they are not willing to define it any more than this, yet they too would be miserable if they could not dress. Others consider themselves androgynous and dress accordingly. For still others, it is a fetish, whether or not it is sexual, and whether or not they can stop at will depends on the degree of their fetishism and their other life circumstances.

You should never tell anyone in this forum they can stop if they want to, since not everyone is like you. Does this make sense? Do you acknowledge there are many different ways that someone can be a CDer, and also there are a variety of degrees within each type of CDing, depending on genetics, personality, upbringing, past experiences, place of dwelling, type of marriage, age, whether or not there are children, type of career, the degree of feminine identity, to name a few.

With all due respect, please stop telling people they can stop. You have no idea what are their predispositions or their personal circumstances. You yourself have been CDing for 60 years, and you are still CDing! :)

[AllieSF]

Sophie, that is a good analogy. Here is another one using the same example reworded some. The to be husband tells his wife that he likes to play golf, takes her a few times when she said yes (still in the dating and courting stage). They get married, he continues golfing and asks her to go with him sometimes, but she starts to decline the invitations. He still goes golfing as regularly as he did before, no more, no less. One day the wife screams, "I hate golfing it takes so much time and you are gone more than half a day!". Hmmm??

What happened here? Well there could be several things. Women and men (young women and young men) many times try to join in their SO's activities prior to marriage and then lose interest in it later after marriage and see no reason to continue participating now that they are married. Why? One common reason is that they are courting their to be husband/wife and want to participate to win their love, knowing or hoping that it will make the other happy and maybe move both of them closer together for the long term, maybe they hope that they will actually enjoy the shared activity. Maybe from the now wife's point of view, she wants her husband home more to help around the house to help out with the kids or whatever. Maybe she has difficulty saying those words for whatever reason and finds it easier to say that she hates the golfing so much. Those are two examples and I am sure that there are more. The first one I have seen many times in relationships and most couples seem to work out the differences in those areas over time. Personally, my older sister did that, learning all about cars back in the 60's to impress her future husband about her interest in an area and activity that he enjoyed so much. My daughter did that, learning to ski and spend 2 days skiing in the cold mountains, only to beg off those trips skiing later after she got married. Why? She does not like skiing that much and does not like being so cold.

Why do I offer this alternate scenario? To show that there are two sides to every story and we tend only to get one side here on a forum like this, which leads most of us, including me sometimes, to over assume what is really happening in someone else's relationship. Also, since it appears to me that the MtF husband when he/she states that the there are problems, a lot of people really like to jump down their throats without really knowing the full story, including the SO's point of view.


Stephanie, you have said that a CD can stop if they want to. I disagree. You are the only person here in 4 years of reading and posting everyday that I have seen state that opinion. I respect your opinion, but do not believe it. I do believe that some very special people can do that, just like maybe stopping a drug or alcohol addiction. However, the vast majority cannot stop like you say. It has nothing to do about love for the SO, not just will power. It has to do with so many other things, that we probably do not have enough space here to detail them all here for every very unique situation. Maybe some psychologists who specialize in this area can tell us about the ability to stop this wonderful gift we have been given, which is not a gift for all.

[suchacutie]

In my opinion, marriage is a set of mutually agreed upon and understood goals. These goals should bring the couple together in a joint and common outlook in life. These goals will include mutual likes, and also compromises. When one or the other begins to stray from those goals without a mutual resetting of those goals, there will be strife, possibly to the breaking point.

My wife is incredibly supportive. She understands Tina is a part of me, and we have agreed that her physical and mental manifestation will be done separately from what was understood to be my "regular" guy mode, i.e. the man she married. There have been physical changes since we discovered Tina 6 years ago, but they were accomplished by mutual agreement. My wife taught me how to pluck my eyebrows and how to slowly change the arch over time. She taught me about nail polish and since my nails were very weak I now keep them covered with a strengthener. She looks forward to my not needing the strengthener, but for now it is clearly necessary. I'll probably just buff them when my nails are strong enough, and that will, in fact, make them shinier.

I'm sure you see my point in all this. One's feminine self invariably must become a "third person" in your marriage, and that menange a trois will need to be established with input from everyone. I'm sure you'd be a little freaked if your wife suddenly decided to cut her hair in a butch cut, started to wear obviously male-cut clothes, and let all her hair grow (maybe even darkened it, including her facial hair). If she did all this over time without consultation, it would probably be a bit scary to you. That's the position that she's in. She clearly wants to stay with you, and I believe she's reaching out for you to bring the two of you back together on this, and every other issue facing the two of you.

Reach back out to her, tell her you understand her concerns or at least want to know more about them, and that you and she will strive to be open and work hard and remembering that the two of you do want to work together to make your lives happy together..

Best wishes.

tina

[ReineD]

... she wants her husband home more to help around the house to help out with the kids or whatever.

Or whatever? :) I would hope that if they have kids, the husband would be willing to curtail his golfing sessions a little and help out at home on the weekends.

But seriously, of course there can be a million different circumstances surrounding a wife's change in attitudes. I think Sophie picked her particular example because the OP mentioned only that she had grown her hair and didn't describe any of the other changes that normally come with this. I do agree with you there are two sides to every story. In fact, there are more than 2 sides, there are 4: each side has their own story, in addition to the things they do not disclose about their story. :D

Until the OP comes back and clarifies a few things, there isn't much more any of us can tell her, without continuing to stab in the dark as to what is the best thing to do.

:hugs:

[Sophie86]

Why do I offer this alternate scenario? To show that there are two sides to every story and we tend only to get one side here on a forum like this, which leads most of us, including me sometimes, to over assume what is really happening in someone else's relationship. Also, since it appears to me that the MtF husband when he/she states that the there are problems, a lot of people really like to jump down their throats without really knowing the full story, including the SO's point of view.

I absolutely didn't intend to jump down his throat. If you followed my Lying (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?154608-Lying) thread at all, you know that's something I really hate to see people do. It's quite possible that your scenario is correct, but rather than the alternative it looked like that was the interpretation that was already taking hold, so I was trying to gently offer a different perspective. None of us know the full story, though, so it's really hard to offer any constructive advice. One always likes to assume that relationships are worth saving. That's not always the case, but I wouldn't assume otherwise based on one angry post. If my wife and I got divorced every time one of us was angry, and remarried when we made up, we could wallpaper our house with the documents.

[Chickhe]

Funny... I had the same issue. You could try, the next time she gets her hair done and it looks really bad, tell her you think it looked better before. If she gets bent out of shape, you just tell her you are being honest and you thought since she thinks she can tell you how to cut your hair, then you should be able to decide how she cuts hers (its only fair)... might not get you your long hair, but at least you get your point out that its not really nice to dictate how you should look... anyway, I grew my hair out over the last two years and I started to really like it long. My wife did comment about it and I just said, 'yup, its long' or 'so what's your point?'...and I added on 1 more month of long hair each time as a rebellious act. In the end though, I learned to really not care what anyone told me (and I feel good about not cutting my hair based on someone elses opinion). I did cut it in the end for two reasons...1. I have some male pattern up front and it doesn't look great no matter how I style it. 2. I didn't want to tie it up and it was getting in my face too much. I figure there is also more options with a wig...nothing beats the feeling of real hair though. In my case, my wig really is the better choice and it makes a huge contrast in the way I look as a male vs. female.

[AllieSF]

I agree with you Sophie and I did not mean to infer that you were attacking the OP. I just wanted to offer one of many other very possible alternatives to your analogy. So many of the initial negative comments to these types of threads seem to automatically assume that the OP is overstepping his boundaries and not that the spouse being a bit, or a lot, out of sync and confusing in her statements to the OP. Neither OP nor the spouse is necessarily right or wrong without a lot of detailed information and input from both sides. I prefer to err on the side of support and empathy, not necessarily approval, rather than on assuming the negative regarding the OP. I really liked your other thread and was very surprised and disappointed at some of the replies to it.

[jillcutie]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

To Reine, I haven't changed anything about myself other than dressing more frequently. I agree that we really need to talk it out, I have told her in the past whenever she asked me that I never wanted to transition or go full time.

To Sophie, You really did nail it. That's exactly the situation I'm in. She even yelled at me in our arguments that I'm not a woman.

[Huntress]

:devil: Save the counselling fees. Join a Crossdressing Country Club that has a golf course with only "Red" tees. The Ladies Tees. Also, buy a really good Taser.:battingeyelashes:

[Stephanie47]

Jill, there are some marriages that survive cross-dressing, revealed before or after the wedding vows are exchanged. This site is not representative of the outcomes in society as a whole. This site is a small sample of the general population.

It sounds as if you exceeded the boundaries acceptable by your wife. Counseling may or may not help. If your wife wants you to completely cease and desist, and, you comply, it will not necessarily remedy the problem. Even if you never dress again, she will always have the images of you en femme, real or imaginary, engrained in her mind.

Forget the analogies with golfing. It isn't the same. Everyone is entitled to their separate time and separate interests. Does anyone on this site really expect the same response from a wife of visions of her man playing golf as dressing as a woman? Not, really.

[Sandra]

I haven't changed anything about myself other than dressing more frequently.

...and this could be the problem. How does she feel about you dressing more, did you talk to her about it?.

[danielle.cd]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

To Reine, I haven't changed anything about myself other than dressing more frequently. I agree that we really need to talk it out, I have told her in the past whenever she asked me that I never wanted to transition or go full time.

To Sophie, You really did nail it. That's exactly the situation I'm in. She even yelled at me in our arguments that I'm not a woman.

well when you do talk to her make sure she knows that when you try to get rid of everything, down the road youll get the erge again and again and you will just be spending more money than before to replace tthe stuff so what would she rather do have u keep the stuff or purge try to stop and fail just to have this happen all over again in the future cause it will . set your boundries when and were and for how long and comprimise dont push it on them and they can be supportive of you even though they dont like it my wife has muttered the same exact words but when she sees something nice , she will ask if i like this or that for my female side , would u be supportive of her if the shoe was on the other foot and she wanted to dress and look like a man, hairy legs and arms and all

[Sophie86]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

To Reine, I haven't changed anything about myself other than dressing more frequently. I agree that we really need to talk it out, I have told her in the past whenever she asked me that I never wanted to transition or go full time.

To Sophie, You really did nail it. That's exactly the situation I'm in. She even yelled at me in our arguments that I'm not a woman.

This is just a thought, but perhaps you could try this: Tell her that it's impossible for you to quit forever, but that you can quit for a short time while you and her talk and work things out. Name a specific period that you think you could manage, anything from 3-6 months maybe. Stick to the promise while you take some time to focus on your relationship, and get the two of you back on solid ground. Do some special things together, like going away for the weekend, if possible. Towards the end of that time period, talk about what level of crossdressing she can be happy with. Don't negotiate anything so rigid as a contract, but just get a feel for what she is comfortable with, and then try to stay within those bounds. After 3-6 months of crossdressing again, take a one month hiatus to touch base with her and make sure that everything is still good. Make time to do special things together that don't involve you being crossdressed.

I think this will do a couple of things. First, it will show that you're committed to the relationship, and second, it will show that you are not on a continually escalating trajectory of crossdressing that's going to lead to transition or being crossdressed 24/7. Of course, if either of the latter is your ultimate goal, that would be good information for her to have. If not, though, then I think she just needs to know that there is some intermediate level where both of you can be happy.

[BRANDYJ]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

To Reine, I haven't changed anything about myself other than dressing more frequently. I agree that we really need to talk it out, I have told her in the past whenever she asked me that I never wanted to transition or go full time.

To Sophie, You really did nail it. That's exactly the situation I'm in. She even yelled at me in our arguments that I'm not a woman.

Jill the change you made is the dressing more frequently. That alone could make her do a 180 about accepting this side of you. Just like Sophie's great analogy, you are playing to much golf and now the wife hates golf! So when your dressing was less frequent, it was OK with your wife. So how often is "dressing more" Is it everyday, every night, all weekend long? My guess is however much it is, it's become to much for your wife. It seems like time to cut back and focus more on your wife's wants and needs. Show her that she is more important then the dressing or is at least as important to you. Just a thought. Hope it works out for you.

[sarahNZ]

...Before their marriage, a guy tells his gf that he likes to golf. She says, "Oh, that's nice. It sounds like fun..."After they're married he starts golfing every weekend... all weekend... planning vacations around golfing
etc etc... Finally, one day as he's walking out the door to go golfing yet again, she screams at him: "I HATE GOLFING!!!!"

So he goes down to the green and tells his buddies, "I don't know what her problem is! She liked golfing before we got married!!"


You nailed it, Sophie! :)

If some one had explained it to me like that way back when... I would probably still be married! (Mind, now I don't spend half as much time on the golf cource as I did back then... CDing is far to expensive and now I can't afford the greens fees):battingeyelashes: hehehehe

Food for thought.:hugs:

[kristinacd55]

Sounds like a purge, only involving your hair. A lot of the arguments you had with your SO sound exactly what happens with my wife and I. It's a balancing act for sure, but talking it out and compromise are the best solutions I know of. If the relationship is worth it to you........

[Nicole Erin]

IN some rare cases, a wife is totally OK with her husband CD'ing. Reine may be one of those rare ladies.

You did the supposed right thing, you told her before marriage. But now there is some other boundry or something else you didn't do. Where does this end? It is always something the CD did or didn't do. Didn't tell soon enough, dresses too often, takes things too far, broke some unwritten rule...

So you say she might want a divorce but does not want the hassle so here is one avenue -
Find out what the local laws are as far as divorce terms and if you two could do this without an attorney and what your obligations would be under the law. Also be realistic as to what you are willing to give up IF Ontario were to say something crazy like the man has to give up 70% of everything he has to the woman. If you two can do the divorce totally on your own terms, then it might be best to just take a loss. Which is more important, your household junk and money, or your happiness and freedom?

It sounds to me like the divorce has already started. Divorces usually start long before anything is ever filed with the court. First comes the verbal, then the physical and legal (the order of these two may vary).

My experience with this -
My wife was cool with who I was at first. I did tell her after marriage. She slowly rejected it. She said I spent too much time and effort on it. Anyways by the time we divorced, years later, we had a lot of other problems. It was heartbreaking at first that it had come to an end. Thing is, once you divorce and regain your freedom, you won't look back. I told her to take the household junk, I didn't want it, and she could have most of what was left of our healthy tax return after we paid off some mutual things like the lease.

Sometimes when I am having a bad day, or another problem pops up, I will even comfort myself by thinking of the misery I no longer have to deal with that I did when I was married. It is like, "Well at least I don't have to deal with her hypochondria, her complaining, her defending our kid every time he gets kicked out of school, and all our other differences.

Now if CD'ing is the ONLY problem you two face, then I would say see what you can work out but if there are other problems, might be time for a split.

[Julogden]

In my opinion, this illustrates precisely why it's very important for anyone with gender issues to work them out before getting involved in a serious relationship. And after working out one's gender issues, you need to be totally honest with any potential partners, tell them up front, or ideally, be yourself for the world to see so that you will attract those who like people like you.

Jill, you're turning into someone other than the man that your wife thought she was marrying, and I can't blame her for having trouble with that. You essentially tricked her, assuming that you didn't inform her of the extent of your gender issues prior to getting married.

Another problem in a relationship such as this is that in our society, women get the message from popular media and from those around them to think that it's their duty and right to "fix" their husband. Not all women buy into that, but it's a very common attitude among women to view men as flawed and in need of improving. It's all part of the man/woman BS that is drilled into our collective head when we're growing up. It can cause huge problems in relationships, and not just relationships that involve transgender issues.:2c:

Carol

[linda allen]

I don't mean to imply that this is what's happening in this case, but consider this analogy, because I'm sure it happens in some cases....

Before their marriage, a guy tells his gf that he likes to golf. She says, "Oh, that's nice. It sounds like fun." So he takes her to the golf course a few times during their courtship, and they have a good time. Everything is great.

After they're married, though, he starts wanting to go golfing every weekend, and sometimes he wants to golf all weekend. He starts planning vacations around golfing. He wants to spend large sums of money on golf clubs, golf lessons, and country club memberships.

At first, she tries to let him have his hobby, even though she's lost interest in it herself. But then he meets some golfing buddies, and he starts wanting to spend tons of time around them. The couple starts to argue about how much time he's spending on it. When he's not out golfing, he's shopping for golfing, or talking about golfing. Finally, one day as he's walking out the door to go golfing yet again, she screams at him: "I HATE GOLFING!!!!"

So he goes down to the green and tells his buddies, "I don't know what her problem is! She liked golfing before we got married!!"

Just something to think about.

Yep. Or fishing. Or any nunmber of activities.

[Sophie86]

In my opinion, this illustrates precisely why it's very important for anyone with gender issues to work them out before getting involved in a serious relationship.

Yes, everyone should have all their psychological issues worked out before they get married. Then, in about a 100 yrs when the last human has died, Mother Nature can start over with some new breed of sentient beings.


You essentially tricked her, assuming that you didn't inform her of the extent of your gender issues prior to getting married.

Really?? So even when a husband tells the wife beforehand that he's a crossdresser, he's still tricking her if he doesn't tell her that in 5-10 years he will want to grow out his hair? C'mon!

[ReineD]

To Reine, I haven't changed anything about myself other than dressing more frequently. I agree that we really need to talk it out, I have told her in the past whenever she asked me that I never wanted to transition or go full time.

Thanks for your response. :)

You don't give us a lot of detail, so my response back to you will just be one big guess as to what might be going on and what might help. Also, I am writing in very generic terms here, based on situations I see happening over and over again in other marriages. :p

First, you need to understand that most GGs don't have it as a goal to marry CDers, and they feel threatened (a better word is "AFRAID") when their husbands want to increasingly live the lifestyle. And depending on how much the husband ramps it up in time, either in terms of changed looks, or frequency, or both, the wife will feel neglected in addition to being scared that she is losing her husband. It is not uncommon for her to begin to see the femme persona as "the other woman" in the relationship, as he wife feels increasingly relegated to second place in her husband's priorities.

All of this happens when there is not a lot of clear communication about the CDing or the husband's goals. If the wife feels as if her husband's life priority is to be femme over and above everything else, then yes, she will feel as if her husband is not the same man she married. It's a delicate balance. Few wives are able to immediately understand that the femme persona has always been there, even when the husband did not express femininity.

Another thing to consider is the "style" of CDing: whether it is just appearing feminine in the same way that ordinary, albeit well dressed GGs do and doing day-to-day things (and keeping an interest in other activities than shopping, grooming, going online or hanging out with other CDers in clubs for example), or if it is a "fetishy" type of approach with a style of clothing that only young women would wear in night clubs.

Also, if the husband changes his look more permanently in guy mode (such as long hair, long nails, plucked eyebrows, complete body shaves in the summer, etc), the wife may feel as if the husband is telling the world that he is a woman internally since he has crossed the line in terms of conventional male appearance and this may reinforce her fear that it is only a question of time before the husband will want to take hormones and transition. It seems to the wife then, that the husband doesn't care at all to be a guy, as that his pride in being a guy has flown out the window. Add to this a husband's attitude during the week that everything he does in guy mode is boring and flat (if he lives to dress on the weekends), and this will reinforce the wife's fears.

You haven't described your full home situation, nor any of the subtle changes in attitude as well as presentation that you've experienced over the years. Maybe the changes have happened so slowly that it is difficult for you to even discern them.

So, I can only guess that your wife is afraid that she is losing her husband. She no longer sees the CDing as something that you do to relieve stress, or a need you have to express yourself occasionally while still thinking of yourself as a guy (and enjoying being that guy) most of the time.

Like I said earlier, the only thing to do is to engage in thorough and honest conversations about your goals, your feelings, and her feelings. If your goal is to go out dressed once in awhile and you want to not appear as a guy in a dress, yet your male identity is still very much present, then it is only a question of educating your wife about what you want and why, and reassure her that you still very much want to be her husband.

If you do need to dress more and more and you dislike yourself as a guy or you feel "flat" as a guy and you are losing interest in the day-to-day things that you and your wife used to do together, then perhaps you need to reevaluate your goals. Perhaps the need to be a man in lessening for you, and if this is true and your wife cannot see herself in a marriage with another woman, then maybe the two of you should go your separate ways. I don't know this since obviously I'm not familiar with your situation, but it is something to think about.

Now ... if your wife has religious or moral objections to even the smallest incidence of femme presentation (while you have established that you do have an interest in being a guy and you do continue to identify as a guy), then it will be difficult for you to CD occasionally and keep your wife happy. In this situation, I can only recommend a marital counselor that will help your wife with the idea that that the two of you are individuals, and that you need the freedom to express yourself occasionally even if she does not participate.

[Julogden]

Yes, everyone should have all their psychological issues worked out before they get married. Then, in about a 100 yrs when the last human has died, Mother Nature can start over with some new breed of sentient beings.



Really?? So even when a husband tells the wife beforehand that he's a crossdresser, he's still tricking her if he doesn't tell her that in 5-10 years he will want to grow out his hair? C'mon!

Crossdressing is a BIG issue in most marriages, and usually a negative factor. We know that gender issues are BIG issues, so yes, it is reasonable to say that we ought to work through them to the point of knowing who we are and what we want before getting married. It's in everyone's best interest. Crossdressing is not a minor thing. It's not like having different tastes in music or some other trivial difference. It's a very big, hairy issue to most people.

You're twisting my words with your example. It all depends on what the couple have agreed on beforehand. Growing one's hair out for crossdressing reasons is a constant reminder to a wife that her husband wants to look female, and may very well be a big deal. And let's face it, hair length probably isn't the main issue. It's probably the straw that broke the camel's back. The OP said that she's gradually increased her dressing over time which may have contributed to making her wife upset. You know how many of us are, give an inch, we take a mile.

Carol

[Sophie86]

That was a really good summary, Reine. Very fairly stated.


Crossdressing is a BIG issue in most marriages, and usually a negative factor.

Really? Thanks for the heads up.

I could name some others that are also BIG issues: being bipolar, having obsessive compulsive disorder, having borderline personality disorder, having intimacy issues, having trust issues, having severe sexual hang ups, being co-dependent, having a narcissistic personality, and, umm... what's the scientific name for just generally being a jerk? There seem to be a lot of people who suffer from that one.

You get the point, though, right?


it is reasonable to say that we ought to work through them to the point of knowing who we are and what we want before getting married.

That would be reasonable if we knew that we didn't know. I identified as 100% male when I got married. That little hobby I occasionally indulged was not who I was, as far as I was concerned. (For the record, I still identify as about 80% male, on average. Sometimes it drops lower, but on the whole I'm still a guy.)


It's not like having different tastes in music or some other trivial difference. It's a very big, hairy issue to most people.

Trust me, it's small potatoes compared to the issues my father had. There are far worse things than husbands who crossdress. "Anger management issues" sounds like such a polite term, doesn't it? Try living with someone who walks around with a big ball of rage inside him, and very little self-control.


You're twisting my words with your example.

My example was drawn from the OP. The word you used was "tricked" which suggests a conscious intention to deceive. Perhaps you would like to withdraw the word though. I won't hold you to it, if it was just a bad word choice.

[Julogden]

Really? Thanks for the heads up.

I could name some others that are also BIG issues: being bipolar, having obsessive compulsive disorder, having borderline personality disorder, having intimacy issues, having trust issues, having severe sexual hang ups, being co-dependent, having a narcissistic personality, and, umm... what's the scientific name for just generally being a jerk? There seem to be a lot of people who suffer from that one.

You get the point, though, right?



That would be reasonable if we knew that we didn't know. I identified as 100% male when I got married. That little hobby I occasionally indulged was not who I was, as far as I was concerned. (For the record, I still identify as about 80% male, on average. Sometimes it drops lower, but on the whole I'm still a guy.)



Trust me, it's small potatoes compared to the issues my father had. There are far worse things than husbands who crossdress. "Anger management issues" sounds like such a polite term, doesn't it? Try living with someone who walks around with a big ball of rage inside him, and very little self-control.



My example was drawn from the OP. The word you used was "tricked" which suggests a conscious intention to deceive. Perhaps you would like to withdraw the word though. I won't hold you to it, if it was just a bad word choice.

You're taking what I said out of context or perhaps didn't read the whole sentence. I said "You essentially tricked her, assuming that you didn't inform her of the extent of your gender issues prior to getting married." I stand by that statement. It's a qualified statement, and if the OP indeed knew that she had gender issues and did not tell her wife prior to marriage, then yes, in my opinion, she tricked her wife regarding that.

Since MANY marriages have been destroyed due to crossdressing, it is indeed a big issue that should be discussed prior to marriage, if the husband is aware of being a CD at that time. If you don't discover that you have gender issues until after you're married, then there is no deception.

To many wives, having a CD husband is the end of the relationship unless the husband never dresses again, and we know that's not likely. I agree that CD'ing shouldn't be a big issue, but in many marriages, it is one of the biggest problems that the wife can imagine.

Carol