Cultural contempt

[Genivieve]

I have so much I want to say and ask but there's so much change going on in my life. My posts end up being spontaneous thoughts instead of the things I want to ask. That being said, I was irked last week by the attitude I received from a few fully transitioned transexuals.

They considered my slow steps into transition some sort of blasphemy. On the other hand, I don't want to be punched in the face or shamed by being too brash in my steps. At least not until I am on my own in a better environment.

So the point is...I've been doing so much shopping lately trying to buy items to better my appearance in an invisible way. Dolman sleeved tops, foundations, cardigans ect. I live in a suburb about 5 miles from the heart of Los Angeles. Here we have a collection of pretty macho cultures. Hispanic, Armenian primarily..then some asians and white as a minority.

I'm still amazed at the flat out contempt and direct rude statements I've heard when buying makeup, skirts, and just now false eyelashes. You know how some people cannot hide their distaste? You see their lips grimace even though they speak kindly. I just got back from a beauty shop purchasing the aforementioned eyelashes. The girl was super nice when I walked in, then as I paid she could not look me in the eye and her mouth looked like she had eaten bitter herbs.

How could I transition here without hatred or violence. I actually have been punched in the face because someone thought I was gay when I was 19.. this was 10 years before I even considered dressing in any serious way.

I'm just ranting but I just have to repeat that I'm irked by attitudes on both sides of the spectrum. Sancutary anywhere please???

My parents initiated the guilt that I see echoed throughout this area. DO I have stories there. So much shame so much regret. I have no problem stating that their culture (which I will not name) is quite stupid and based on pretense. It's one where poor people live in an apartment but lease a Ferrari to impress their friends but more so to make them feel inferior. So many cultures bent on old values that don't apply to liberal California today.

Sorry just venting...I have nowhere else to speak. I'm going to drink wine and buy a pair of tights and glue for my lashes.

The tights should raise an eyebrow or two.

As always I thank you al for being my sole support.

-gen

[Maria in heels]

Gen,

you are entitled to your opinion, and always try to make sure that you do not change yourself just for the pleasure of others...then you become miserable and bitter towards everyone and everything. Makes sure that you are keeping your head held high, you go as you please, and take care of yourself, or you will never find content and happiness in life.

[Karren H]

I can't understand that kind of behavior. Guess I have never seen it here in Pittsburgh... People seem to live and let live and if they don't approve they won't let it show. Most are very friendly. I shop in women's store all the time and the young women and old ones all are very helpful... Even the male SA's don't disapprove. Hey we have a whole town full of people who dress up like furry animals this week! If that's not accepting I don't know what is! Lol. I do feel sorry your where you are. Maybe a change of venue is appropriate?

[cd_in_de]

Live by the Golden Rule and "Judge not lest ye be judged."

[Cynthia Anne]

God is great, beer is good and people are crazy!I couldn't and wouldn't live in an area like that!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

take care of yourself..be good to yourself...the guilt and shame you mention is imposed on us...many of us go on to feel guilty and ashamed that we are guilty and ashamed..it's a vicious circle..

it sounds like you should be aiming at leaving your current place..that's easier said than done..

[AllieSF]

I echo all the support above. I also have seen that when someone is concerned about something like us being read, or us buying female clothes, accessories or makeup in male mode, the we tend to see it everywhere, in everyone's eye's lips and posture. I was not with you when you saw what you saw. However, I would guess that if you really did not care what they thought or cared, as long as you were not in any immediate physical danger, you probably would hardly ever notice those looks, whether they really are there or not. In my case, I don;t care, so someone really has to make a scene about me before I will ever even notice it. My skin is finally think enough that even that slides easily off my skin into the waste bin. I am assuming that you have a lot going on in your life with your lifestyle, life, parents, family, neighbors, maybe friends and just where you live. My guess is that all this makes the other things seem bigger than they really are. I may be wrong, but I hope that I have given you some food for thought, which is, live your life as best you can, don't let others get under your skin, worry about that which you can do something about and learn to live with that you can do nothing about. Good luck and keep talking and writing and sharing here. That is excellent therapy and a good training ground for developing that thick skin, especially when dealing with the "I am always correct, and do it my way" crowd here.

[joanna4]

Hi Gen, I just want to say that I'm sorry to hear from your experiences. I have bought makeup, false eyelashes and even liquid leggings without a problem and I'm not far from the area you stated so just buy anything as you please. Its ok to vent a little, pm me if anything:)

[NicoleScott]

I experienced that kind of treatment only once when I bought pantyhose from a woman SA (JCPenney) who, by her facial expressions and body language, made it clear that the did not approve. I was in guy mode, so she assumed they were for me, and I still got the treatment!
You can shop elsewhere, and that coud be the quick fix to ease your ire. It probably won't change anything else. But a call or letter to the owner or manager to explain why you won't shop there any more might change something.

[Jill Devine]

If I were you I would consider moving to another suburb/neighborhood. Life is too short to be living in fear or having to look over your shoulder all the time. Move.

You can do it.

[Tina B.]

L. A. is a big area, almost all Los Angelo's have cars, drive to another area to shop. Move out to the Valley, North Hollywood/Burbank area is pretty friendly and was not to expensive when I left down there. But there are just some areas of most large cities, and a lot of small towns that you just have to stay under cover to be safe.

[Sara Jessica]

One might say you are painting your neighbors with a rather broad brush, culturally speaking. What you are describing can be perceived as a very stereotypical statements on your part. But then again, you can take a step back and include a couple key reasons why these things are the way they are rather than simply stating them as what you have experienced. First of all, it sounds like a rough area and if you are not part of the prevailing tribe (whether gang, culturally, etc), you may end up being a target. This has little to do with you being TG other than the fact that you are putting it out there on display.

The other issue is that in many cultures, particularly hispanic ones, the male/female binary is deeply rooted. Patriarchy and matriarchy are clearly defined and crossing the line is often viewed with contempt, especially in older generations.

Like you said, you are the minority in your neighborhood. Being different only adds to the issues you are encountering.

In all of my travels in and about the City of Angels, I have never encountered anything like what you describe but then again, I don't frequent areas that I wouldn't feel totally safe in, whether in guy or girl mode. You have painted this area in such a way that others perceive it as a place they'd be unlikely to visit, let alone live here. Then again, we have enough peeps in SoCal so that might not be a bad thing. But seriously, this is one of the most wonderful places in the country to live, a place where I feel free to be who I am. That's something that cannot be said by many who live in small town Americana or parts of the bible belt.

Pick your battles. Go out in places a bit further away from home. I bet driving another few miles would put you in a better place.

[PretzelGirl]

Gen, I hope you always find acceptance wherever you go. One thing to be careful is that because we don't want to have to face non-acceptance, we sometimes see it where it isn't. I can walk around at work and someone could look at me out of the corner of their eye and giggle. So do I assume they have found out about me? Or is it more likely that they think my long hair is odd? Or is something stuck to my teeth? Sometimes we are hyperaware of our surroundings and our mind runs with it translating everything into what we fear will happen. So take a deep breath, go to safe locations, and enjoy life and being the wonderful person you are and don't worry about other people's reactions.

[wendy360]

I too live in the LA area and have been malls and movie theater and have not experienced the problems you discribe. I agree with Sara Jessica that you may want to go to a different area to by the things you need with out the harassment.

[SabrinaDubh]

5 miles outside of L.A. with macho and unaccepting attitudes? I know where you are. You need to move. Not just for CD reasons, but because that's a bad area with people like you described. If you can swing it try Pasadena, or the Valley as was suggested. But no matter where you go, stay out of areas like the one you're in... Ethnic, non english speakers, mostly from another country down south.

[Gaby2]

Wonderful Gen!
I do admire your strength in the face of such contempt as you perceive it. (It's certainly very real).
Keep choosing to cultivate an understanding attitude in your search for answers and try to avoid bitterness.
Thinking of you,
Gaby

[Eryn]

Sounds like a great time to move on. It's unfortunate that it becomes necessary, but sometimes that happens. Live and shop somewhere where you are appreciated.

[Fab Karen]

First, not all TS's have that attitude. And spitting on others who are different isn't the behavior of a lady, sad that they haven't learned.
YOu say 5 miles "from the heart of L.A." - don't know what you think of as the heart, but the city, the geographic center would be roughly W. Hollywood. I have years of shopping experience in boy-mode with no comments or judgements about what I was buying. I grew up in this town, most of it is ok with diversity, including us.
Just because something was instilled by your parents mean it is right. There's no shame in being who you are.

[busker]

I live 60+ miles from you live and I have had very similar experiences. One can only move so many times before that gets to be a problem in itself. California is no longer LIBERAL--that passed away years ago. It was liberal in the 50's and 60's. Everything changed post NIXON. I've been here since the mid-50's and I can say that it has changed greatly---like most places. I came from NY and when I came here Calif and NY were like NO 1 and No2.they are No 49 and No 50.

[vetobob9]

i know what you mean. One time I went to a store where I had bought one of my first fem clothes. I made my first purchase there about 15 years ago and I didn't have a problem. But then a year a go I went back to buy new stuff and they shut the registers down as soon as they saw me and what I was buying. I was the next person in line but I had to wait almost an hour with a long line of people behind me. That made me feel very uncomfortable because it was an odd coincidence that all the cashiers suddenly closed their registers at the same time. This was at a TJ Maxx in the city of Whittier.
Finally a young woman opened a register and said the guys who were running the registers previously were just being a holes. They did look like that gang banger types. if that is the case you can be certain that crossdressers are not the only people they hate. I know from experience that they also hate whites, asians, blacks and Arabs. It is regrettable that any store would employ those kinds of people.

[vetobob9]

I live 60+ miles from you live and I have had very similar experiences. One can only move so many times before that gets to be a problem in itself. California is no longer LIBERAL--that passed away years ago. It was liberal in the 50's and 60's. Everything changed post NIXON. I've been here since the mid-50's and I can say that it has changed greatly---like most places. I came from NY and when I came here Calif and NY were like NO 1 and No2.they are No 49 and No 50.

but it appears that New York is shooting back up to number 1 while my birth state of california continues to sink like the Titanic. California is the most enlightened state but it is also the most bigoted state. Women are more liberated here but they are also more likely to end up forced into prostitution. California is a place of contradictions with a lot of potential if the right people were in charge.
Sadly while they claim to oppose bigotry they still haven't learned that the only cure to bigotry or unrational bias is inclusion of the very groups that have those fears to begin with.
Exclusion can only be defeated with inclusion. And as much as those of us still in the closet are afraid of outing ourselves, the fact we are still in the closet is itself an act of exclusionism. Are we as guilty as any other person of unjustified bias?

[Sara Jessica]

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading here.

California not liberal? In the context of being transgendered, I dare to say that being in or amongst a major metropolitan area works to our advantage when it comes to being able to go out and if not be accepted, at least blend into the crowd. In California, we have no shortage of these areas.

Women being "more liberated but also more likely to end up forced into prostitution?

Where does this come from? Spoken as if it is some sort of commonplace. I'd better go check on my wife about now, just to make sure this isn't happening to her.

Stores shutting down because "there's a crossdresser on aisle 11 who is about to purchase something that is...gasp.....feminine??? I guess I'm shopping in the right places.

[Briana90802]

I think this thread is fascinating. I've noticed a trend here on this board and in society in general. The more educated a person is the more accepting they tend to be. So yes I can see that certain people are small minded and say sh*t but this is California and the one thing we don't have is a mixing of the educated and the "lazy can't think for themselves let religion dictate their lives can't form their own opinion unless they see it on tv types".

Crossdressing is like real-estate, location location location. I would never cd in Bakersfield unless I was in need of having cowboys castrate me with cattle prods. I would probably not do it in Compton where the gas prices are higher than the IQs. I'd do it where people have reasoning skills instead of reactionary lives.

[SabrinaDubh]

I think this thread is fascinating. I've noticed a trend here on this board and in society in general. The more educated a person is the more accepting they tend to be. So yes I can see that certain people are small minded and say sh*t but this is California and the one thing we don't have is a mixing of the educated and the "lazy can't think for themselves let religion dictate their lives can't form their own opinion unless they see it on tv types".

Crossdressing is like real-estate, location location location. I would never cd in Bakersfield unless I was in need of having cowboys castrate me with cattle prods. I would probably not do it in Compton where the gas prices are higher than the IQs. I'd do it where people have reasoning skills instead of reactionary lives.

(Bolding mine) Very true, so very true. Sadly many CD's do not understand this.


i know what you mean. One time I went to a store where I had bought one of my first fem clothes. I made my first purchase there about 15 years ago and I didn't have a problem. But then a year a go I went back to buy new stuff and they shut the registers down as soon as they saw me and what I was buying. I was the next person in line but I had to wait almost an hour with a long line of people behind me. That made me feel very uncomfortable because it was an odd coincidence that all the cashiers suddenly closed their registers at the same time. This was at a TJ Maxx in the city of Whittier.
Finally a young woman opened a register and said the guys who were running the registers previously were just being a holes. They did look like that gang banger types. if that is the case you can be certain that crossdressers are not the only people they hate. I know from experience that they also hate whites, asians, blacks and Arabs. It is regrettable that any store would employ those kinds of people.

TJ Maxx closed registers for an HOUR? Seriously? With other people in the store waiting to pay? And no one complained? And the manager let it all happen? No offense but I am going to call BS on this one.

[docrobbysherry]

I live in Newport Beach in the OC. We DON'T have many openly GLTB folks here. I've tempered my urge to go out here dressed. Many bad things could happen and few good ones! However, a few miles in either direction, and it's not such a big deal!

I don't get WHY going out dressed in vanilla society is so important anyway? Most of us can't pass and must compromise our dress to try and suit the PUBLIC! Who needs THAT kind of stress? I dress for the FUN of it!

Shopping: I shop at thrift stores and online. End of problem!

TS's: Do NOT disrespect their feelings an attitudes until you've lived their life! I have NO IDEA what some of these folks have suffered and neither do u! Sounds like u can't even handle, "walking a mile in their shoes"!

[Fab Karen]

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading here.

California not liberal? In the context of being transgendered, I dare to say that being in or amongst a major metropolitan area works to our advantage when it comes to being able to go out and if not be accepted, at least blend into the crowd. In California, we have no shortage of these areas.

Stores shutting down because "there's a crossdresser on aisle 11 who is about to purchase something that is...gasp.....feminine??? I guess I'm shopping in the right places.
I'm a Ca. native, overall this is a very liberal state. Laws that are a given here are "fighting words" in other states.

Any store with customers lined up, if all workers at the registers stopped ringing up for any other reason than technical malfunction, they'd soon be looking for a new job.

[Melanie R]

Gen,

I appreciate your frustrations, but there is hope. I have been out in public for 31 years and only on 3 occasions did I experience public contempt. In 1993 my wife and Melanie were waiting with Virginia Prince in San Francisco on a cab. When a cab stopped the driver told us that CD,s were not allowed in his cab. A year later outside the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City a couple approached us waving a Bible and telling us that we were all going to hell. We live in Houston and in 31 years of being out in public I have never had a negative experience. I will never forget 25 years ago shopping endrab at Foleys (now Macy's). While my wife shopped in the petite department, I looked for all the bargains in the women,s plus size department. I found around 8 outfits that I took to the SA. Immediately she looked at me and the clothes and asked if I would like to try them on in the dressing room. I asked how she knew the outfits were for me. She said that no man goes and picks out 8 outfits unless they were for him. I did come back the next week to model one of the out its for her.

[vetobob9]

(Bolding mine) Very true, so very true. Sadly many CD's do not understand this.



TJ Maxx closed registers for an HOUR? Seriously? With other people in the store waiting to pay? And no one complained? And the manager let it all happen? No offense but I am going to call BS on this one.

Who said that there were no complaints?

[donnalee]

As for me, I'd far rather live next door to a libertarian than a liberal. He won't care what you wear, will defend your right to do it and will be capable of backing you up in real terms if necessary. A liberal on the other hand, will tell you the government needs to pass a law about it, avoid you on the street, and call 911 and hide if there's any real trouble, in which case you're about as likely to go to jail as the perp, depending on where you live.