Are You Gay / Into Men / Etc. DOES IT MATTER?

[Debglam]

Nigella asked a very specific question and the “I am or I am not answer” really doesn’t apply to that thread. Frankly, that is not what I am seeking here either. I do, however, think that Freddy, as usual, has brought up a very good point.

We have a public perception that crossdressing means homosexuality. I think that efforts to educate the public that gender identity and sexual preference are two totally different things is fine. BUT(!) eventually, at least in some situations, we just have to say who cares!

I am a crossdresser. When I was a child society, parents, and mostly peers bombarded me with the message that to have any interest in anything feminine meant I was “gay.” I think I understand a little about brainwashing because after awhile of hearing that message over and over and over again, I began to question whether the fact that I had the urge to crossdress meant that I REALLY was gay!?!? Even into adulthood, even though I never had any interest in men, I wondered – could everyone else be wrong?

Let’s add to this the fact that when I was a boy, the absolute worst thing you could be called was “gay!” Combine this with my own self-doubt and I think that this is where my own homophobia came from. I don’t think we ever hate anyone more than we hate ourselves.

I would bet that a lot of you were in the same boat. Am I wrong?

Well, we live and we learn. First, I have had a couple of experiences in my life where the ONLY people to stand up for me in the face of injustice were homosexuals. The only ones (I wonder where all of my so-called “normal” friends were at the time???). Could people with that kind of moral character really be as bad as I had been indoctrinated to believe? The seed of doubt was planted.

Fast forward to today as I embrace my own “gender diversity.” As I face my own identity head-on I care less and less about what strangers think. Learning and embracing who I am means that I KNOW when others are wrong. In fact, I am starting to see that their opinions are quite often reflections of themselves. Someone who looks askance at a crossdresser, or who is upset enough to say or do something about it is really reacting to a reflection of themselves. THEIR problem, not ours!

Anyway, to quote Freddy:

The public asks “Are you GAY?” because we MtF crossdressers are tossed into the “deviant” pile, along with every other practitioner of "perversion," purely out of laziness. When you look up transvestite in the dictionary, you'll find that sexual deviancy, as outlined by society, is part of the definition. So, to the world at large, we are all deviants, perverts and GAY (or queer) by association. Add to this the fact that even here, where support for all facets of an alternative “community” is inferred, some individuals seek to disassociate themselves from certain corners of the membership, looking down upon males who wear female clothing purely for pleasure. I get the feeling we aren’t supposed to exist, and it hurts…
:sad:

What the public “sees” is what the media allows them to see, and the “face” of MtF crossdressing is DRAG, done mainly by gay males for the benefit of other gay males, or done purely for laughs (and entertainment). The public only sees this side of the coin, looking no further, but the obverse, namely the tactile, hetero MtF crossdresser, is dismissed by other transvestites, other crossdressers, and even so-called “supporters” of the community. I gave up a long time ago, right after the 15th discussion on this topic went nowhere. You win. I’m GAY. I submit to your reality. No where’s that support I was promised? Can we get on with the tolerance, please?
:hmph:

Well said, and again I think it is a good idea to correct this misconception BUT. . . some folks, even here, are never gonna get it! My response:
“Yeah, I’m gay, lesbian, queer, bi, whatever. How about you?”

Bottom line, IMHO, is make peace with who YOU are, let’s try to educate the public that TG or CD doesn’t automatically mean homosexual or anything else for that matter, but at the end of the day, who cares what the average bozo on the street thinks!

Have a Happy and Safe 4th!

Debby

[Tammy V]

Society and familial expectations really put me in a box early on. I started wearing my mom's things at an early age but I was 40 before I finally accepted that I was a crossdresser and did not try to repress that part of myself anymore. Took me a little longer, but I was 43 when I finally admitted to myself I was bisexual.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I agree, I get really tired of all of the "Who is/isn't gay?" threads. The only one I've read that seemed to provide any valuable substance is the one entitled "How are my gay male crossdressers doing?" Which isn't about what someone is or isn't, but rather a thread about the actual details of the shared experience of a sub-group on the board for whom the discussions about wives and girlfriends tends to be a little less relevant. I think the roll-call type threads don't really seem to serve any purpose except dwell on something we should be above as a group.

[Pythos]

Today is the 4th of July. The day we celebrate the formation of this nation, that was based on freedom. Freedom from tyrany, opression, and so on.

Well today I AM facing a form opression. I would like to wear what I like. Today it is blue leggings, nice dress boots, a nice men's shirt (light grey), and a belt. My usual style. However, because I am having to do family things I have to NOT wear what I want on this day of independence. Instead so as I do not appear GAY (that's right, my family still thinks my look is gay and that is an embarrasment), I have to wear jeans.

Gay in many many circles is still a bad thing, pathetic I know, but it is. The insults my mom uses to disuade me from wearing leggings is "you look like a ballet dancer" insinuating I am gay because male ballet dancers are "always" gay. She is embarrassed by my appearance mearly because "straight men" don't wear such things. When I asked if she would dislike my style if I were female, her answer is always "that's different".

I "fight" against being called gay based on my manner of dress because I AM NOT GAY. End of story. If you are a crossdresser and gay, well bully for you. More power to you, cause my understanding is gay crossdressers face just as much disdain by members of the gay comunity as we straight ones do.

It is the mere fact we are "lowering" ourselves to near the level of women when we wear what they wear. That is really the main thing we combat. But also we deal with the inacruate notion that a man that wears feminine styles is doing so to attract men.

As I have said often, I do not do that, and based on my earlier thread, many here also do not.

[Karren H]

Personally peoples sexual preference are no interest to me any more than what they like to eat or what color panties they wear! Lol.

[eluuzion]

Personally peoples sexual preference are no interest to me any more than what they like to eat or what color panties they wear! Lol.

Skooch over a little bit and gimme' an oar, I think we are paddling in the same direction...:)

I've never given much consideration to a person's sexual preferences. I have just not felt the importance that many seem to place on the issue.

But during my divorce, I initially became obsessed with exposing the "truth". I divorced my ex because of her lies and affairs with many of her "friends" (I had physically documented proof of at least 4). She denied everything and told everybody I left because I did not want kids.(absurd).I wasted a great deal of time trying to convince people to believe the truth.

My attorney finally saved me from this self-destructive nonsense by saying this...

"The only person you have to prove anything to is yourself."
"Nothing else really matters, does it?"

She was right. Repairing my perspective and perceptions of what matters in life is worth ten times the amount I paid her to represent me.

ok, maybe just twice the amount...she was incredibly expensive...:heehee:

:love:

[Frédérique]

We have a public perception that crossdressing means homosexuality. I think that efforts to educate the public that gender identity and sexual preference are two totally different things is fine. BUT(!) eventually, at least in some situations, we just have to say who cares!

I’m flattered you would quote me...:)

I forgot to say that it really doesn’t matter to me if I am perceived as being GAY, a deviant, a pervert, or whatever, as long as I can live life on my own terms. In my case, I like to wear a pretty dress now and then - to look pretty, feel pretty, and become happy because of it. If others don’t understand why I crossdress, and label it “gay” for no good reason, I have no problems with that. Who cares? Better to accept the majority of opinion and get on with the things that contribute to my happiness and ultimately make life worth living...

Honestly, I wish I was GAY – what difference does it make, or would it make? Love is love, and you’re lucky to find some in this crazy mixed-up world. As long as I’m happy, or “gay” by any other definition, people can think what they like about me, and perpetuate this “idea” that all forms of deviancy (i.e. not being “normal”) must have something to do with sexual preference. At this point in my life such trivialities don’t matter at all, and, in any event, I’m beyond making distinctions that don’t help anyone...
:straightface:

[Badtranny]

Pythos, Deb, Freddie, ....damn!

I was avoiding this thread because the header didn't seem very interesting but boy was I wrong. It's amazing how many facets clever people can cut into a given topic.

Deb, I also grew up in a homophobic world. I was femmy so I must have been gay. It never occurred to me or anyone else that I might have some gender issues. Anything fem was gay and I learned early on that there was nothing worse than being something less than a man. What a mind-warp. Trying to be a man, screwed up my whole life along with a couple of girlfriends and wives lives.

Freddie, I've said almost the same thing, I wish I was JUST gay. I already have the love for men, but things would be so much easier if I didn't need the feminine presentation. I remember asking the therapist about why I couldn't just be a regular gay dude and she said "you can only be what you are". ...I wish I were a tree. ;-)

Pythos, it's true the gay community doesn't exactly embrace us. 'No fats, No fems" should be stitched on the rainbow flag. I've been called disgusting now by; A straight man, a straight woman, a gay man, and a TS woman. All I need is a lesbian and a CD to hate me, and I'll have some kind of record. If you're in the Bay Area, you must be in the phobic valley like me.

[Longing2be-Trisha]

Debby you are right! First thing those around me thought was I wanted to be with men, which is further from the truth. I am tg if that time comes and I do have desires for men after transitioning, then that is a bridge i will cross then. For now it is overcoming the years of programming that was instilled on me for years of how boys and men should act like so others could be happy in knowing they are right and you must live in fear of who you really are inside. Now I no longer fear and I have no problem talking about being tg and wanting to live as a woman.

Hugs

[Lorileah]

Going up in middle America, being gay was about as accepted as being a Communist in the 1960's and 70's. In fact they were often lumped together as in "Pinko, Commie, F*g, Junkie." And yes I was called all those except junkie. Being who I am I was always jealous of the girls in school and what they got to wear. Of course that would have slapped the "Queer" label on me real fast, especially because I wasn't a Jock in school...I was a nerd. A small out for me was that the men's clothing of the time was in effect sort of femme. Growing up I was convinced that I probably was gay because after all to want to wear a dress was gay. So yes I had some homophobia before I left home.

Fast forward to being in the military at the end of a war when most the guys were just glad to be home but the civilian population, not so much. New labels but I was OK with that because I had learned to have a thick skin. There were three floors in my barracks and being a medical company we were allowed to pick and choose who we wanted to be with and which floor. Amazingly (well maybe not) the whole first floor was gay and lesbian (yes we had co-ed barracks) and no one cared! Many became friends and by the end of my tour I didn't care if people thought I was gay, it was really kinda cool to be gay (pre-AIDS). Yes some asked if I wanted to play, but a simple "no" ended that. But I was cool thinking "maybe" even though I wasn't.

Now college, sex-ed class, "you can be what ever you want to be" professor. Gave me permission and a new word, Bisexual. And that was OK too. Liked girls, was married but still liked women's clothing. Wife was cool with it too even suggesting that I was bisexual (nother whole story). Was happy as I could be at the time. Had understanding wife and friends who didn't really care. Then AIDS. No longer hip to be gay (or bi). Fear. Didn't stop me from having gay friends but was afraid FOR them. But I was still who I was.

Guess the point is that my "sexuality" didn't come into play for those who cared. Fast forward again. Tired of hiding, realize that life is short and you don't get a re-ride. So now those who I think can handle it know, those still in the dark ages, don't. But for me and those I care about, it is a non-issue. Those who ask, the answer is "No I am not but who cares? Do gays take air from your lungs or interfere with your life in any manner? If so how?" So far no one has given me a good answer to that. And no just because the "bible" says so doesn't hack it because it also says I can sell my children into slavery and we all pretty much agree that is not a good thing

[Cynthia Anne]

I live and will die by my signature! It's not my place to judge others! I have been judge by the so-called best! I once fixed a flat tire for a lady on a sunday! She then told me I was sinning by working on sunday! Figure that one out! Weather I'm straight or gay Is my business not the so-called judgers of this world!

[Steph.TS]

who cares what the average bozo on the street thinks!
in this case my dad would be the bozo, he thinks anyone who isn't cisgendered, straight, wears clothes/acts like the gender they are born as then they are gay.I've tried explaining CD'ing isn't gay but once he gets something in his head, there is no changing it...

[Valerie1973]

Society will always just see gay. They assume you wear a dress because you can't cut it as a man. Some may just say gay just like when someone might say Barney the dinosaur is gay. The Teletubbies are gay. It's a Small Small World is gay. That's gay. Like saying that's lame. Not necessarily homosexual but that's gay. My SO thinks dressing up is gay, however, she knows I'm not homosexual. When I was a kid I believed I was gay. Only when I caught a Donahue show, about when I was 13, I understood. Then all the talk shows were following this subject. For the sake of argument I have once told a naive family member I am gay. (how many times did I use gay? lol) FTW!

[VioletJourney]

The only people who say crossdressing=gay are the people who think gay is inherently a bad thing.

[NatalieBliss]

I agree about not really caring about others sexual orientation. However I do understand that there are those that wish to know they are not alone in more detail. This forum is somewhat democratic, posts that don't get clicked fall off the front page.

[Michaela42]

No. No. And ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Everyone has their little 'quirks' about them. I do not say that to marginalize anyone or their preferences. We are all different, and yet all the same. The 'quirks' are what make us, well, us.

[Fab Karen]

It only matters if you wanna date them.

[SweetIonis]

Another one of those threads! LOL!!!!!

[gerri ray]

I'm open sexually. I prefer both men and women. Other peoples sexual orientation doesn't matter to me. If they want to tell me, that's fine. If they ask me my orientation, I'll tell them the truth. People are who they are. I accept people no matter what. To me, the general public needs to get over themselves and live their own lives, ya lnow? there are way more important things to worry about other than who sleeps with who.

[flatlander_48]

It IS important that we know how sexuality sits for each of us. If we have different backgrounds, come from different places, were educated in different ways, had different familial experiences, etc. what makes you think that we will all think the same? Ignoring differences will NOT lead to understanding.

[NicoleScott]

Are you into men?

You mean, literally? NO!

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

It IS important that we know how sexuality sits for each of us. If we have different backgrounds, come from different places, were educated in different ways, had different familial experiences, etc. what makes you think that we will all think the same? Ignoring differences will NOT lead to understanding.

There's a big difference between understanding and embracing our differences and in having literally countless threads where someone either proclaims or swears against a particular sexuality. That's why I think threads where people actually talk about the specifics of their experience within a certain sub-group are interesting and relevant, where as the "Well I'm totally not gay!" "Well I am!" "No thank you!" type discussions are just frivolous.

[Barbara Dugan]

It only matters if you wanna date them.

I am with Karen on this one..I am gay and into men and only matter because I want to date a nice one

[CaitlynRenee]

I've said before, I don't really care what a persons gender OR sexuality are. I like people for who they are, not for a label that might be attached to them. I've had gay and straight friends, male and female, CDrs, TGs, etc. I've been out with all of the same and don't really give a flying flip what others think as long as they don't abuse or try to hurt my friends. Of course, some of my gay/BI/CD/TG friends would be a hand full for anyone to try to mess with with.

It's really comforting and enjoyable to be able to sit down with someone you are comfortable with and talk about anything you wish to talk about. Doesn't matter if it's the latest styles in dresses, your favorite color of panties, the cute guy sitting at the next table, newest firearms, cars, fine wine, or what ever.

I've never been with a guy and don't consider myself gay. That being said, we all have a bit of the feminine inside of us due to our chromosomes and our mother's DNA. I don't know if I will ever be with a man, I just love women too much to think about it. I think that with my daughter being BI and my CD life style as well as my SO being supportive, there's always the possibility it could happen. I just don't see it happening at anytime soon, if ever.

I DO love my 'crazy mixed up' friends for who they are and will always have a hug, kind words and support for them.

[maya1love]

Yup, I'm a gay male crossdresser...end of story...and thank you "Jive" for your kind comments!

[arlene123li]

I'm not gay but sometimes I wonder what it would be like to dress and "be" the girl all the way. What does that mean?

[Gypsy Sam]

Labels,generalizations,sterotyping, always prove to be fool hearty. If you lust after a man and desire to be intimate with him,it's a homosexual desire. A female presentation stirs your desire yet your aware it's a genetic male person. your exhibiting bisexual desires. A female presentation of a genetic girl that stimulates a desire to be intimate is hetrosexual desire. If you are presenting a female impression for the artistic or transformative result. The internal desire exceeds all labeling and is apples to oranges in cognitive thought.
Enjoyed reading all the responses and happy for the opportunity to express mine.

[danielle.cd]

no i dont like the male figure and im not gay but now that i have accepted myself as who i am , a crossdresser, i find that i am kinda atracted to the ******** that are more feminin looking and u cant actually tell that there a ******* unless u see there...... you know what,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[CaitlynRenee]

There are so very many people who are absolutely gorgeous when CD that sometimes you can hardly tell they actually ARE a CD. Now if you are attracted to that type of person, are you being attracted to the male, the female presentation or just beauty in general. Some of our members here are soooo good looking when enfemme, I can see how they would be attractive to others. Hell, I would be proud to walk down the street with a great number of our members. It's not so much a sexual thing because I know most of us are NOT into the gay lifestyle. It IS (for me anyway) about being seen with a beautiful woman. When I'm enfemme though, and if she's THAT beautiful, I'd probably want to scratch her eyes out rather than escort her down the street.

I suppose a beautiful CD girl starts out as a beautiful drab male. But who am I to say?? I think it's what's inside that really makes one beautiful.