To the members that make negative comments about living in the closet.

[suzy1]

Not all of us girls in the closet are “hiding” but just living our lives the way we choose. There is an issue here that’s not being addressed I think. It’s about the freedom to live our life the way we choose without being criticised for it.
Time and time again I read members [usually the same ones over and over again] criticising other members for not coming out to the world.
If I started to criticise all the members that went out dressed, saying they were not helping our case by going out in a women’s dress I would get attacked from all sides! [I don’t think like that by the way]
This is a support group. How about supporting me and all the others that do not go out, not because we are scared but because we choose not to. Or like me have no need to.

I will support you, all of you.
How about supporting me!

SUZY

[CharlotteCD]

I fully agree. For some of us, life is better this way - accept it and move on :D

[Stephanie47]

I also agree. When I make comments I usually identify my cross-dressing preference as an "in-home" cross-dresser. From the postings I see in the photo area of this site, there are some extremely beautiful passable cross-dressers on this site. I am not one of them, and, I would stick out like a sore thumb. I am fully satisfied feeling the comfort of my cross-dressing in my home and the backyard.

[minalost]

Basically I agree with you. I would add that it depends on WHY you're not going out in public. If you simply choose not to, for your own reasons, then more power to you! If you want to go out but don't do to fear, then maybe it's okay to get a nudge out the door from one of our sisters so long as it's done respectfully.

[Stephanie Miller]

If there is to be a distinction between "in the closet" and "hiding it from one's spouse", then yes I agree with you whole heartedly. I can only hope that those sisters have a big enough closet to really enjoy all that life has to offer them.
But if somehow the hiding from spouse comes in to play, then I think the CD is unfairly infringing on a very important part of honesty with-in a marriage. And I personally just can't agree with that.
Just the way I feel about it.

[Eryn]

Everybody should do that which is within their own comfort zone. We have an unfortunate occasional tendency to turn things into a competition and that is wrong. If you're comfortable and happy dressing at home that's great. If your desire is to go out dressed I will give encouragement even though I haven't yet done so. We should be supportive of happiness, not specific feats.

[Cynthia Anne]

Well said Suzy! I am not in the closit, but many of my best friends here are! I do love them just as they are! I commend you for pointing out the truth! Hugs for you as always Suzy!

[retrofitme]

I think a lot of the decision to be closeted is about trust. I trust my wife, so she knows. Beyond that, it's just best for everyone that my fem side remain anonymous.

[Karren H]

Personally I think that just like you have the freedom to live your life the way you want.... everyone has the freedom to express their opinions whether we agree with them or not. Personal opinions are just that. And should be taken as such. I'm not going to subscribe to a philosophy where your only allowed to post what's politically correct at the time? If I don't like what people say I can rebut.... And have the right to do so.... Kind of nice to hear someone else's opinion. Even though I may disagree. I'll support you in your right to do what you want but not to limit freedom of speech.

Unless your wearing women's jeans when your posting then I think you should be set by the curb for the trash man! Lol.

And personally I like to be "attacked". Makes counter attacking so much more enjoyable!! :)

[suzy1]

Karen, I am being “attacked” and I am counter attacking.
And I am not limiting freedom of speech, I am exercising it!
Feel like reading my post again?

SUZY

[Karren H]

Karen, I am being “attacked” and I am counter attacking.
And I am not limiting freedom of speech, I am exorcising it!
Feel like reading my post again?

SUZY

You were wearing jeans when you wrote that weren't you? Lol. I wasn't attacking I was opinionating! Counter opinionating!

[Dawn cd]

I think the vast majority of members agree with you, Suzy.

To Mina, I would agree that fear isn't the noblest reason to stay in the closet. But what outsider can really judge the basis for another's fear, or the fallout that can come from disclosure? So if you give a "gentle nudge," make sure it's very gentle.

Likewise to Stephanie. I agree that honesty between spouses should be able to include crossdressing. I've shared with my wife. But how can we, from our perspective, stand in judgement of another's marriage? Absolute honesty is a principle we support--but it's not a mandate.

[Sandra]

I'm going to stick my neck out here......I agree you should do what you want and if that means you want to stay in the closet then ok, but please don't moan and groan about how society won't accept when you wont try to do anything about it, by getting out there and trying to educate people.

Ok go on have a go at me now :D

As for being in the closet regarding an SO that is a different matter, that I don't agree with but that's probably for a different thread. :)

[2B Natasha]

Go out, don't go out. Drink so much caffeine you don't sleep for week. It's your thing. Not mine. I dont care if you live in the closet, under the house, in the kitchen or down a man hole cover in the middle of the street getting woken up every morning by having a spike beat into your head and eating gravel. More power to you.

But on support. I will support you just like I support anything. Girl scouts, youth groups etc etc etc. When you deserve it or need it. NOT when you beg for it.

[Kate Simmons]

In the closet, out of the closet or otherwise, yourself and others here are always my friends Suzy and you can take that straight to the bank.:thumbsup::)

[suzy1]

I’m not moaning or groaning Sandra. I don’t mind if society does not accept me. And I never will.
I am just asking others not to criticise me for being me that’s all.
And I am not going to have a go at anyone!
I am in a good mood. [At the moment but don’t push it]

SUZY

[Anne2345]

Personally I think that just like you have the freedom to live your life the way you want.... everyone has the freedom to express their opinions whether we agree with them or not. Personal opinions are just that. And should be taken as such.

If I don't like what people say I can rebut.... And have the right to do so.... Kind of nice to hear someone else's opinion. Even though I may disagree. I'll support you in your right to do what you want but not to limit freedom of speech.


Karren, I could not agree more with this general premise. Discussion is to be valued, and freedom to debate protected. Without the freedom to engage in discourse we are lost.

As some of you know, I am deeply in the closet. However, it is my life and my decision. And beyond that, for a variety of reasons I have posted in the past, I love my closet! It is my sanctuary! Some members have disagreed with my decision to remain in the closet, and the reasons for why I value my closet. Some of those in disagreement put forth coherent, well-thought out, and non-insulting arguments as to why a crossdresser should leave the closet. Others chose to insult and ridicule both my decision and my closet, with no productive argument presented whatsoever. In fact, I posted a follow-up thread to my post (similar to this OP) requesting members to be respectful and civil in regard to my decision. Ironically enough, the thread was ultimately closed because certain members could neither be civil nor respectful, and chose instead to insult and ridicule further. I believe such responses as this, responses that have very little or no instrinsic value whatsoever, is what the OP is referring to. Legitimate constructive criticism and the discussion of opposing viewpoints or ideas, on the other hand, is fundamentally valuable and should be protected at all costs.

And it is because of such discussion of different ideas, perspectives, and experiences that I just this week went shopping for female clothes for the first time. This is something that I never would have done before joining this forum. But many of you have related ideas and thoughts in your posts that I read, considered, and took action on. Would I have done this if I had been insulted and ridiculed that I was a loser for buying clothes and makeup over the internet, instead of stores? I doubt that I would have. Instead, I recognized through the experienced, wise, and supportive words of members here that I could go shopping myself and buy feminine things. Such presentation and consideration of ideas and differing perspectives led to a very positive outcome in this situation, and one for which I am grateful.

So although I agree that we are all free to present our ideas, thoughts, and arguments to the forum and its members, I also agree with the OP that there is a proper, civil, and respectful way to do this. If we cannot be kind to ourselves, within this protected forum sanctuary, those in the outside world will have no reason to be kind to us, either.

Very well stated, Suzy! And a very good point, Karren! How's that for riding both sides of the fence! :)

[Cynthia Anne]

I love this thread! I do beleive I better get another bucket of water ready! Just in case!!!!!!

[Lorileah]

Hiding in the closet and not going outside the house are two different things. Stay in, dress as you like but don't moan about how the world treats you, don't complain about how your wife won't accept you and don't rail about how women get "more" than you do. What you do and what you wear in your house is totally up to you, but if you aren't willing to do something about how you are treated then will be fair game for sniping if you post any of the above. I don't think many here deny you the right to stay home. That usually isn't the issue. You want equality and rights? Then be willing to be out and do something about it

[Violetgray]

Not all of us girls in the closet are “hiding” but just living our lives the way we choose. There is an issue here that’s not being addressed I think. It’s about the freedom to live our life the way we choose without being criticised for it.
Time and time again I read members [usually the same ones over and over again] criticising other members for not coming out to the world.
If I started to criticise all the members that went out dressed, saying they were not helping our case by going out in a women’s dress I would get attacked from all sides! [I don’t think like that by the way]
This is a support group. How about supporting me and all the others that do not go out, not because we are scared but because we choose not to. Or like me have no need to.

I will support you, all of you.
How about supporting me!

SUZY

Ok, first let me see that I think it's in bad taste to lay a guilt trip on someone who remains in the closet. We hit different points in our lives at different times, and whether someone stays in the closet doesn't effect you in any way. I do understand if you're just trying to be helpful, and think the person would enjoy themselves more.

However, personally, I don't buy the "We remain in the closet because it's our preference" statement. It's your preference because of all the potential risks. If I were in a cage surrounded by hungry wolverines raised on a strict diet of tranny meat, It would be perfectly reasonable that my preference is to stay in the cage. But I see no reason to pretend that the cage is just so awesome that I'd rather stay in it whether the wolverines were there or not. That's possible, but it just isn't likely.

But every person must move at their own pace with things like this. In fact, one of the reasons I'm glad to be a part of this board is so that closeted cd's can at least have someone to share their femme existences with.

[Eryn]

I’m not moaning or groaning Sandra. I don’t mind if society does not accept me. And I never will.
I am just asking others not to criticise me for being me that’s all.

So, the point is that we in this forum should be more tolerant than the general public? That doesn't seem to be too extreme!

[suzy1]

You don’t buy the “we remain in the closet because it’s our preference” statement Violet!
That’s exactly what I am saying here. So what are you accusing me of Violet?
Thank you for posting that. It makes my point better than my original thread could ever do.

SUZY

[Violetgray]

You don’t buy the “we remain in the closet because it’s our preference” statement Violet!
That’s exactly what I am saying here. So what are you accusing me of Violet?
Thank you for posting that. It makes my point better than my original thread could ever do.

SUZY

I think you misunderstand. Me saying that I'm skeptical to the reason given is just my personal opinion, and it is in no way suggestive as to what you should do with your time, where.

But since you asked, by "I don't buy that" I mean that it is my personal opinion that saying "I prefer it this way" is a sort of coping mechanism for a very restrictive situation.

[Karren H]

Yeah!! The more you "closet lovers" keep talking..... the more I'm thinking that going back in one sounds pretty safe and comphy!! Lol.

Move over.... I have a lot of accessories!!

:D

My blood chocolate level has dropped dangerously low...

Actually I'd say 95.3% of everyone here is in a closet of somesort.... Some small and some bigger....

[Natalie D]

I'm new here and happy in my closet and so far I've not come across any negativity.

I believe life is all about opinions and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I may not agree with someones opinion but they are entitled to them. Open forums are for people to express their views. If some think we should all come out into the open then fair enough.

I have no intention of popping out to do the weekly shop dressed en femme. I don't have the body, mannerisms or voice to do so. I would just like look like a freak. A man in a dress. Why would I want to do that? As a man I have pride in my appearance but I don't think I could ever feel that way dressed in my feminine clothes outside the comfort of my home.

If some on here want to criticise me for that then fair enough. We all CD for our own reasons not to make other people happy.

[LilSissyStevie]

I don't actually live in my closet, believe it or not.:heehee: I don't even go out in public en homme if I can help it and try not to attract any attention to myself when I do. Believe me, I would attract attention en femme:eek: and the activist types would be screaming for me to go back to my closet and stop making the trans community "look bad.":devil:

[Crissy Kay]

I have to agree with Suzy on this one. I am very happy to be dressing at home. I have no reason to go out myself. If others do, thats fine with me.

[minalost]

I think you misunderstand. Me saying that I'm skeptical to the reason given is just my personal opinion, and it is in no way suggestive as to what you should do with your time, where.

But since you asked, by "I don't buy that" I mean that it is my personal opinion that saying "I prefer it this way" is a sort of coping mechanism for a very restrictive situation.

I'm curious about what you mean by "restrictive situration." I'll use myself as an example: I don't go out dressed any more (not that I ever did a lot...) because it's part of the agreement I have made with my wife. Is this the type of "restrictive situation" you are talking about? And if so, is it really a bad thing? I'm sure others don't go out because of fear (fear of being seen by familly or friends, fear of being hassled, fear of looking silly...), but, again, that is their "choice."

[Anne2345]

However, personally, I don't buy the "We remain in the closet because it's our preference" statement. It's your preference because of all the potential risks. If I were in a cage surrounded by hungry wolverines raised on a strict diet of tranny meat, It would be perfectly reasonable that my preference is to stay in the cage. But I see no reason to pretend that the cage is just so awesome that I'd rather stay in it whether the wolverines were there or not. That's possible, but it just isn't likely.

Hi Violet! You may not buy the statement that some prefer the closet, and think that it is unlikely, but let me assure you that it is indeed possible! In fact, I have written at length about my own love and appreciation for the closet. I am proof that it is possible. Suzy is proof that it is possible. Others here are proof that it is possible. Some of us simply have no need or desire to leave the blessed sanctuary of our closet. There is no right and wrong answer here.

Citing another example, some girls prefer skirts, some prefer dresses, and to Karren's dismay :) (lol), some prefer women's jeans (please let the record reflect I do not own a pair of women's jeans - lol). Is any one girl wrong for prefering to dress one way as opposed to another? The answer is obviously no.

So how is this really any different from choosing to remain in the closet versus going out in public? It's not! It comes down exclusively to personal preference. I agree that there may be other reasons for remaining in the closet, as well (and I have many myself), but this does not mean that we cannot enjoy and decide to remain in the closet regardless of what those other reasons may be.

But your presentation of your opinion was thoughtfully stated and with civility. This is all us closet-dwellers ask for. Cast not stones on us, but instead accept us for who we are, and the decisions we make. Feel free to present your ideas and thoughts, just be kind and respectful in doing so!


But every person must move at their own pace with things like this. In fact, one of the reasons I'm glad to be a part of this board is so that closeted cd's can at least have someone to share their femme existences with.

I am not moving at my own pace on this issue. I have no plans to come out of the closet. I am very much content with my decision. However, I have taken steps, as a result of my participation on this forum, to incorporate additional aspects into my crossdressing that I did not previously do before. And this has led to further enjoyment and evolution of my femme self. It has been a fantastic, positive experience for me. I very much look forward to the future, and the further evolution of Anne. In my closet, that is. :) But if I eventually do decide to come out of the closet (don't count on it), it will be under my terms with the support and advice of the forum and members such as yourself.

I will also be the first to admit that I joined this forum for a very specific reason - I want to share my "femme existence" with others crossdressers, and I want them to share their experiences with me. In this, I am quite grateful and appreciative of members such as you, and the support and friendship you provide to the forum. :)

[Nikki A.]

If you're happy in the closet, so be it and I will defend your right to do what feels comfortable for you. I was happy just dressing at home too for the longest time.
That being said, if someone says that they want to go out but are afraid to do so, then I will offer them all the encouragement that you others offered me before I started going out.
There is no right or wrong here. There is a whole wide world out there and many ways to see it.

[Stephanie Miller]

Kept reading this thread - and I must say - we sure have an inteligent buch of gals here. Glad to be a part of it.
But my reason for re-posting is.......
Come to think of it EVERYONE is in and out of the closet in some way or another. No matter if your CD, GG straight male etc. There are days I think I look like crap in male mode and just don't want to go out in public. I know my wife has felt the same for herself. (Yes, she has told ME I looked like crap too "you'll scare the kids" :rolleyes: ).
So I can fully understand why CD's ( as Natalie posted ) just have thier reasons. Not really up to the rest of us to judge, is it?

[rhonda]

In the closet , the desire get out must be there , someday it will happen all will be happy

[Rianna Humble]

Thank you Suzy and others for a well-written plea for tolerance within this community. Every one of us who dresses has our own reason for doing so and has to find our own comfort level with that activity.

For some, it may well be that their comfort level does not extend beyond the closet. Who am I to judge? On the other hand, I think it is reasonable for others to describe what life can be like outside the closet and to want to encourage those who are still inside to consider whether they might want to come outside.

In the general population I am an advocate for trans rights, but that does not give me the right to criticise someone else who does not feel comfortable advocating the same thing whether by word or by deed.

Many who are "out and proud" shout loudly that they want others to respect their choices or their life. Can we not show the same respect to those within our own community who do not make the same choices or who do not have the same life?

[Lynn Marie]

Great post Suzy. You know, underneath the lingerie and makeup we are all still men in women's clothing. We also seem to still cling to that distinctly male ego thing that causes us build pretty stupid pecking orders so we can be superior to others. What a sad, insecure thing to do, to criticize and belittle others for no other reason that they choose not to go out in public dressed for whatever reason. Getting out the door is not the epitome of crossdressing. I'd venture to say that getting a handle on your ego, learning to be accepting of your fellow man and crossdresser, and becoming a gracious and encouraging person would be a greater goal here.

[docrobbysherry]

Personally, going out dressed requires TOO MANY SACRIFICES! Like:

Trying to pass! I can't, so why bother trying?
Blending! Yeah, like my DREAM for Sherry is a granny outfit!?
Worries, stress! About,------ OK, I could put a jillian things in THIS column!
Let's just say, if I dress at home, "I have NO stress or worries!"


Basically I agree with you. I would add that it depends on WHY you're not going out in public. If you simply choose not to, for your own reasons, then more power to you! If you want to go out but don't do to fear, then maybe it's okay to get a nudge out the door from one of our sisters so long as it's done respectfully.

I was on top of the Eiffel Tower. Two guys were looking down. One said,
" We're so high, I'll bet if I jumped, I would simply glide down!"

I gave him a nudge. He was WRONG!

[mourningdove]

For many, the part of them that enjoys CDing is intensely personal. Sharing that side of themselves only with those in an intimate circle of trust is healthiest. I don't go out in super skimpy clothes because I'm afraid of judgement or ashamed of my body, I just don't want to share everything with everybody.

[VioletJourney]

To be fair I can see how the out and about people might think us closet gurls are missing out on something, but still, that doesn't warrant insults, at the very most just friendly encouragement.

[AmyGaleRT]

I wouldn't presume to tell anyone who's in the closet that they need to come out. Mainly because it would be hypocritical of me. :)

I know what holds me in that closet, though: fear. And there's only one person that can do anything about it: me.

All of you can offer me words of encouragement, friendly advice, even gentle nudging, but, to paraphrase Morpheus, you can only show me the door...I'm the one who will have to make the decision to walk through it, or not, and then live with the consequences of those actions or inactions.

I'm guessing the same could be said of other people in similar frames of mind as me.

[Veronica Lacey]

I like your stance, Suzy, and I find myself agreeing.

I tend to find my dressing much like others may view their own singing or poetry writing. They do not do it for public consumption and are very content with singing only in the shower or writing in a personal journal. It is not a journey to some easy yet unattainable position in life of singing in a pub or reciting one's poetry on the nearest park bench. It is simply a part of a personality that one chooses to express in private, perhaps nothing more and nothing less. They never wanted to share it with the world.

If people wish to brandish tags such as "in the closet" or "out" then they should feel welcome to do so...but I won't be subscribing to their view. Like yourself, Suzy, I am me and I am where I want to be with dressing, not where others speculate I should eventually wind up. The old Shakespeare cliche of "to thine own self be true" always reminds me of this. It ultimately does not matter what another thinks or compares my dressing with.

Overall, I hope that we all can be comfortable with our own level of dressing.

[Aleca]

I believe that we all have to pace ourselves. I try to be respectful of everyone in this community because everyone will be different as far as their aspirations go, as everyone's comfort level is different.

[Angiemead12]

Do what makes you happy:)

[Samantha43]

The only time I come out of my closet is when I go to a CD friendly place to socialize with other CD's. I crossdress for me, and me only. I don't need to go out in public to prove anything.

[Stephanie-L]

Having read through this thread to this point I have one thing to ask. Define "closet". I am sure it is different for each of us. The single CD who lives alone and can dress however they like but never leaves the house crossdressed. The married CD who's spouse approves only if kept from the neighbors. The married CD who's spouse doesn't approve to whatever degree, but still crossdresses to some extent. The CD who does go out in public crossdressed, but only where they will not be seen by anybody from their "normal" life. The CD who is out of the closet, except to a few people, parents or whomever. As you can see, most of the members on this board fit into a closet of some type, even some of the more adventurous folks out there. I too live in a closet, and it has it's good points and bad points. I am working on expanding it, and maybe someday it will get a lot bigger (gotta have places for all the new shoes, LOL). About the only person I could criticize for being "in the closet" is the one who has professed a desire to go full transition, probably SRS, etc, and even then they may have something of a "Closet" in that they may "stealth" transition, or change their lives entirely afterwards so that no one in their new lives knew them pre-transition. And remember that those in the gay/lesbian community still have lots of closets even with the huge amount of progress they have made with acceptance. So, to those who are throwing stones, take a look at your own glass house, are you totally out of your closet?......Stephanie

[donnalee]

I dress at home, where I spend most of my time. Dressing for me is a skirt or a dress; no makeup, wigs or forms. It is just more comfortable for me. Until her death last month, my SO knew and had no problem with it, just some curiosity which I answered to the best of my ability; one of the main reasons that I'm on this board is that I didn't understand it either. I have a better self-knowledge from being here; one of the first things that struck me was how diverse a group we were as to circumstances and adaptation to them.
Equality is not something I ask for; It is something I DEMAND; not only for myself, but for everyone here (and elsewhere). Infighting is a wasted effort and demeans everyone here. There are members here who have unknowingly insulted me by not understanding my own circumstances, but I would and will not do the same to them; all I can ask is that others try to do likewise.

[Jane G]

In the closet , the desire get out must be there , someday it will happen all will be happy

I find one of the great things about this Forum is we share our views, without most of the negativity and bitching I've read on other sites. We're a positive bunch.

This thread seemed so black and white at first. Then I read the post and now I've come to the realization that we all live in the closet. Every one of us male female straight gay. We all have things we would do differently if we ignored society and friends. I'd probably drive my car every where at top speed. But I don't because I have respect for the opinions of others and society tells me I should not. (I know cross-dressing is a little less dangerous to others, but I hope you see my point). :eek:

I've tried many things in life dressed en femme, even a spot of rock climbing, just to experience what it was like. Now I choose to remain in the comfort of my own home, with the exception of the occasional drive across the moors. This is for a whole host of social and personal reasons, but I'm good with that right now.

You can't always do what you want, but you should always do what feels right for you.

[suzy1]

Wow! What a lot of interesting replies. Thank you girls.
Some of you agreed with me. Some of you did not totally agree. One or two seemed to miss the point I was trying to make.
But that’s O.K. I am too laid back to really mind. [Although Suzy does have a short fuse. But I am working on that]

So let me sum up by using the reply from Rhonda. “The desire to get out must be there”
No Rhonda, NO, NO, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


SUZY

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Suzy I agree 100% we all vave our reasons.

Orchid

[Claire Cook]

Actually I'd say 95.3% of everyone here is in a closet of somesort.... Some small and some bigger....


Kept reading this thread - and I must say - we sure have an inteligent buch of gals here. Glad to be a part of it.
But my reason for re-posting is.......
Come to think of it EVERYONE is in and out of the closet in some way or another. No matter if your CD, GG straight male etc. There are days I think I look like crap in male mode and just don't want to go out in public. I know my wife has felt the same for herself. (Yes, she has told ME I looked like crap too "you'll scare the kids" :rolleyes: ).
So I can fully understand why CD's ( as Natalie posted ) just have thier reasons. Not really up to the rest of us to judgend, is it?

Suzy,

Another great thread with really thoulghtful replies. I think Karren and Stephanie have capsulated what others have said. Unless we are 24/7, we all are in some sort of closet. I wonder though if there have been that many posts criticizing those of us who are fully in the closet. There certainly have been posts encouraging those considering going out in public to do so, ... but I don't recall any actually criticizing those of us who are fully closeted. (But this may be an elderly blonde moment...) If there have criticisms like this, I don't think they are warranted. We each have to find our own comfort levels. For some, it's being more open. For others, it's not.

Hmm. Speaking of a full closet, like Karren I just looked at mine. Time for Goodwill, I think..

[TGMarla]

I like this topic, and I like the many responses that have been given. I think crossdressing is one of those things that expands with each of us to the boundaries that are in place in any given situation. For some of us, those boundaries are very minimal, and we hear about girls flying en femme, attending conferences, going out shopping and meeting with friends, etc. For others, doing such things would jeopardize their marriages and/or family situations, which could have devastating consequences. It is patently unfair and wrong to assume that simply because a spouse disapproves of crossdressing, that she is not loving enough or is unworthy of the relationship she is in with a crossdresser. Others simply don't manage to pull off the female emulation in a way that is convincing enough to provide them any kind of comfort zone that will allow the crossdresser to take on the public. We can't help it if we're men, and look like men, no matter how well we try to dress it up. I think we all have an inherent desire to approach or even exceed our limits (if any) when we engage in our feminine pursuits.

I'm semi-closeted. Going out is a real thrill for me, but I run the risks of having my neighbors see me (which I'd rather avoid), and my wife does not support or approve of my feminine activities. We have the ol' "don't ask, don't tell" arrangement. So when she's away, if I choose to go out somewhere, my only stipulation is that I'm back and in male mode by the time she returns. I do this not to hide from her, but out of deference to her wishes. She is important to me, and I respect her feelings on this. Most of the time, that means that I prefer just to stay home. Most of the time, I have only enough time to pursue this for only a few hours at a time, so I really don't have time to go out anywhere or do anything. And it's not just my wife. Life is complicated, and there is a lot to do and get done. So often times, crossdressing is not the highest priority.

So whether in the closet, half out of the closet, or out there in the public and mingling with people, I understand that our own situations often dictate how far we take this. None of us wants to be a laughing stock (the fear factor), but all of us would like acceptance. Unfortunately, the two seldom live in the same sphere. So live and let live. I'll never criticize the closet dresser, nor will I try to push them out the door. I congratulate and support those who get out and help to normalize this peculiar institution. But we all should have consideration for everyone else's individual circumstances.

[dawnmarrie1961]

You’re absolutely correct, Suzy, we all need to put ourselves in check every once in a while to keep from being cruel and judgmental. Often we tend to forget that we were once in their shoes, unsure of ourselves and awkward. We hadn’t evolved, or diva-volved, to the point that we might be now. I say diva-volved for those whose evolution has taken them down the wrong path. We shouldn’t want to become diva’s. It is far better that you become “Yourself”, in whatever shape or form that happens to be. Most of us, from what I’ve seen and experienced, just want peace within ourselves. That’s not much to ask. Peace does not come from casting barbs at others. It only shows others how little we have changed.
Let’s try a bit harder to be supportive of each other and remember from whence we came. Otherwise we will be just cheating ourselves out of the much sought after goal of true peace and beauty that only comes from within us.

[PretzelGirl]

We always see tidbits of this kind of attitude both from group members in that you are not out.... you are not passable.... you are not <insert just about anything>. This is a support group and support can be loving and support can also include tough love. But it doesn't include putdowns (and there is a distinction between tough love and putdowns).

But there also is a flip-side (and this is not directed at you Suzy). We do need to not be so sensitive. Sometimes things get taken out of context and someone gets angry before it is clarified. A statement may not be about non-support, but can be misconstrued. So a few deep breaths when reading things here can sometimes be helpful.

[suzy1]

A good point Sue, but you have not read some of the comments that have directly criticised members like me. Acusing us of being scared to come out, or are not supporting the other crossdressers for not coming out. I even had a P.M saying that I was relying on all the wonderful members that were out fighting for us and I was hiding and not doing what I should be doing in supporting them.
Its funny but I really don’t get wound up by much but this really got under my skin for a bit.
No, this is not tough love this is a big put down.
And why is it sooooooooooooo difficult to understand the simple point that some of us just have no need or desire to go out dressed. That it’s got nothing to do with being scared. And yet it seems to be beyond there mentality to grasp this simple fact. Like a bit of there brain is missing or something?
I was not going to add anymore to this post and here I am again.
[This was not directed at you either Sue]

Hugs, SUZY

[PretzelGirl]

No, this is not tough love this is a big put down.

I agree. And sometimes the flames get fanned in PMs like you say and no one else sees the cause of someone expressing their feelings.


[This was not directed at you either Sue]


I do hope that I always show support. It is my intent. :bh:

[Pythos]

Well, these are my thoughts on the subject.

If CDing was as accepted as say a big male walking around in "gang banger" garb, looking menacing and tough, would there really ever have been a reason to be "in the closet" in the first place?

I don't see many people wearing the thug garb only when at home. I see them quite freely for the most part out and about. But what we are doing is deviant, and to some un-educated people...evil.

So when I see that people here prefer to keep things at home, I have no choice but to respect that decision, but as always my mind works on the reasoning for that decision. Would that decision even be a factor if crossdressing was acceptable social behavior?

I personally do not think the closet would even be a residence for us if crossdressing was indeed acceptable. If we were not shamed for what we do. If people in general did not think we were harming their children's impressionable minds, (yet people going around looking like thugs is perfectly OK for a little kid to see).

I understand why one feels safe, believe me. I am finding myself hiding a bit too much for my comfort.

[juno]

I love to see someone with the freedom of expression to be themselves without fear, whether it is gender diversity or anything else. I am proud of those who get out. There is also nothing wrong with the decision to stay at home, or even to keep it secret due to fear of discovery. That is not a fault of that person, but of society. There can be negative consequences depending on your living situation. In fact, keeping it at home may give CDing a good perspective to that persons friends who know, because they realize that some "perfectly normal" people are transgender.

Most importantly, we all need to be supportive of each other. If we can't maintain a positive attitude, how will be ever convince the rest of society to be positive about gender diversity??

[Debra Russell]

I am out and about freely but am not knowagably a CDer to to only a few; so does that make me closeted to a degree? yes I think so -- I would be out dressed today but I didn't get up early enough to get out-so I am still closeted to some that will not understand but I am happy with where I am although more understanding would be nice. I am not sure what it matters why and to what degree anyone is in the closet or how deep -- to another aspect of being in the closet I personally know of one that should be in the closet, just like the guy in underwear trying to get on a plane he is an embarressment to all -- no matter how he feels. Those who don't want to come at all or any further than they are for what ever reasons are on this forum and should be supported and encouraged.............Debra

[DonniDarkness]

Here is the point that many of us are missing...

PEOPLE CROSSDRESS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

The whole of our group has many different styles of crossdressing. Some are inclined to be as feminine as possible with the sole purpose to Pass as Genetic women. Yet, on the flip side of this coin there are the fetish kids whose sole purpose is sexual expression. Some are couples who Crossdress together and dont share their crossdressing with anyone else, for them it is their "thing" that they share together. Some choose to go to towns far away so that they may avoid the consequences of being outed by other people they know for the sole reason of not complicating their lives any more then necessary. Some are only interested in ONE article of clothing, would you suggest that they come out to the world because they happen to like something to the extent of just Pantyhose....when the rest of their lives they have no other vices within crossdresing at all.

People will always throw stones at those they fear upset the idea of conformity. Just because we are all crossdressers does not mean we all have to crossdress the same way for the same reasons.

If you find yourself judging another based on how, when or where they crossdress then you are really what is wrong with this support community

-Donni-

ps.


I personally know of one that should be in the closet, just like the guy in underwear trying to get on a plane he is an embarressment to all
See this is exactly what im talking about..... Judging him based on what he choose to wear to the airport is completely unfair....if it were Kim Kardashian boarding that flight in her lingerie then no one would have a problem at all, but because he is presenting male and wearing revealing clothing he is tossed to the wolves by his fellow crossdressers......typical BS

[Olivia2]

Here is the point that many of us are missing...

PEOPLE CROSSDRESS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

The whole of our group has many different styles of crossdressing. Some are inclined to be as feminine as possible with the sole purpose to Pass as Genetic women. Yet, on the flip side of this coin there are the fetish kids whose sole purpose is sexual expression. Some are couples who Crossdress together and dont share their crossdressing with anyone else, for them it is their "thing" that they share together. Some choose to go to towns far away so that they may avoid the consequences of being outed by other people they know for the sole reason of not complicating their lives any more then necessary. Some are only interested in ONE article of clothing, would you suggest that they come out to the world because they happen to like something to the extent of just Pantyhose....when the rest of their lives they have no other vices within crossdresing at all.

People will always throw stones at those they fear upset the idea of conformity. Just because we are all crossdressers does not mean we all have to crossdress the same way for the same reasons.

If you find yourself judging another based on how, when or where they crossdress then you are really what is wrong with this support community

-Donni-

Can someone give me an Amen!

[cordgrass]

Well, I am not going to say that I condemn those who stay in the closet, but I sincerely do wish that more non-passable CD's were out. It would have saved me a lot of heartache. I didn't know that crossdressers were as common as they are, and from all I had learned from TV and movies was that the few who were out there were all super gay. Also a lot of the ones out there have had plastic surgery to make themselves look very much like women.

I'm the sort of woman who is attracted to non-passable crossdressers and I didn't even know it was a dating option until recently. I'm not saying it's as extreme as being born straight and never meeting someone of the opposite sex, but I really do wish that more non-passable crossdressers went out and about.

[MaidInCan]

Anne what an excellent response to those that would ridicule. Most of us accept the others on this site for what they have chosen to do. No one is perfect and I doubt there is such a person as a perfect CD. We are on this sight to exchange thoughts and ideas, to support where support may be needed (and not imposed on those we try to help) and to learn. Although I don't post a lot (am basically shy by nature) I do learn a lot from others whether I agree with them or not. It is always wise to consider those other thoughts. My maxim is that you can always learn something from each person because each person is unique and you are never too old to learn. Diverse opinions are a good educator. So keep on striving for your own goals, ladies and be that person you want to be whether in or out of the closet.

[msginaadoll]

I think what I see in the original post is just a call for respect for descision that may be different than yours. That is never a bad thing. We all our individuals with differing situations. The trouble comes when I judge others based on my situation. I'm for celebrating our individuality.

[SweetIonis]

If CDing was as accepted as say a big male walking around in "gang banger" garb, looking menacing and tough, would there really ever have been a reason to be "in the closet" in the first place?


Pythos there are people who don't accept either. And personally I find that whole gang bang thing to be quite repulsive.

[Frédérique]

Time and time again I read members [usually the same ones over and over again] criticising other members for not coming out to the world.
If I started to criticise all the members that went out dressed, saying they were not helping our case by going out in a women’s dress I would get attacked from all sides!
This is a support group. How about supporting me and all the others that do not go out, not because we are scared but because we choose not to. Or like me have no need to. I will support you, all of you. How about supporting me!

I’ll support you, Suzy, along with every other member on this site; even those who think we closeted creatures somehow do a disservice to crossdressing. As far as I’m concerned, we’re [I]all equal in some inexplicable way, so why look for (and magnify) distinctions?

Back in the “good” old days, I was completely unaware of the transgendered community we are now so much a part of. I can see how more intrepid members (individuals, all) might feel like MtF closeted crossdressers are a “drag,” but this (CD’ing) is NOT an easy thing to accomplish, or even attempt in the first place – everyone is different in their approach, or level of comfort…

In the case of the closet-dwellers, it may make sense to “skirt” the issue and avoid censure. I don’t see crossdressing as some type of competition. I’m just happy to dress when I can, and be here among the more accomplished members. And, reading between the lines, I can detect a lot of sympathy, or a need for sympathy, emanating from the words chosen by nearly every member who takes the time to write. This universal condition cries for support LOUD and clear, regardless of what “variation” of crossdresser you may be…
:straightface:

[eluuzion]

Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting.
Dr. Emmit Fox

Well I have found people to be very open to others’ ideas, opinions and lifestyles,
...as long as they match their own. :D:heehee::D

Discounting another persons' actions, lack of action or commitment level to any issue is often a dysfunctional attempt to rationalize and justify your own decisions and behavior.

You don't have to join a circus to be a clown.
You don't have to become a lawyer to be a liar.
You don't have to tell outright lies to be a liar.
You don't have to be a martyr to be a member.
You don't have to do it all to be successful.
You don't have to be the biggest to be the best.
Everybody has the right to voice their opinions.
Everybody deserves due respect for having their own opinions.
Everybody has personal expectations.
Nobody is required to accept others’ opinions and expectations as absolute facts or standards.

You don't have to be wrong for me to be right.


It is better to offer a hand than to point a finger...

just my thoughts.

:love:

[Georgia Rose]

It would be nice if we all lived in a perfect world where we could all do what we wanted and no one would criticize or ridicule. However that is not the case. As a CDer I dress at hyome with my wife's knowledge and agreement. I've told one friend (female) in a drunken moment but that is all. I'm happy that way and see no reason to change it, except it minor ways. I've also worked out that while a number of people would possibly give me a hard time if I was more public with CDing they would give my wife a harder time. Why would I want that? I've found this forum to be a great support for expressing feelings and views. I like to feel I could support fellow CDers whether they want to stay indoors and get out in the world. We are all different and that's is what makes us special. As an aside today was the first day I've gone out wearing a bra (with inserts) and worn a bra all day. Pretty low key but something I've wanted to do. Don't think I'll be going much further but who knows. We all grow & develop!

[Frédérique]

You don't have to join a circus to be a clown.
You don't have to become a lawyer to be a liar.
You don't have to tell outright lies to be a liar.
You don't have to be a martyr to be a member.
You don't have to do it all to be successful.
You don't have to be the biggest to be the best.
Everybody has the right to voice their opinions.
Everybody deserves due respect for having their own opinions.
Everybody has personal expectations.
Nobody is required to accept others’ opinions and expectations as absolute facts or standards.
You don't have to be wrong for me to be right.
It is better to offer a hand than to point a finger...

Well said, my friend, but it feels like you’re pointing a finger at us by telling us NOT to point finger at others. No finger pointing, please – males do that a lot... :naughty

I was going to mention that, when I joined this site, I did not have to jump through any hoops to gain entrance to the transgendered community. Suddenly...BOOM...and I was among all the people I saw during my “lurking” period. I never had to answer a questionnaire, I never had to fill out a form, or be inspected like an automobile – I was accepted because I AM a crossdresser, one of many variants of this human “condition,” a societal outsider, an individual, a fetishist, a round peg in a square hole, a sissy, a pervert, a deviant, and a closeted experimenter...

If I was a liar, I wouldn’t waste my time writing anything about crossdressing, nor would I seek out a site like this in the first place. If I was a clown, or a martyr, it would be plainly revealed in everything I write. If I was immensely successful passing as a female, I would no doubt relate my tales to the gathered throng and bask in the glow of acceptance. If I was the biggest, I wouldn’t be here – I would be out THERE, unconcerned with supporting those who are either just beginning, or those who are feeling a bit wobbly about their passion. Speaking of passion, it all boils down to compassion – aren’t we supposed to be sensitive to the feelings of others? Operating from that “platform,” I refuse to espouse opinions about other crossdressers simply because I don’t have any. I assume we’re all different, and I go from there, running my little flags of considered prose up the imaginary flagpole to see who salutes. Of course, I’m saluting YOU, the gathering of crossdressers in their varied splendor, in case you weren’t aware of that. Next to you, or YOU, I have very little to offer, but I offer it anyway in the hope that we can all get along in this rudimentary shelter at the edge of society...

[drushin703]

Thanks Susy for the wonderful post:
for me it has been about two years since coming out of the closet.I, like many on this forum, was happy and content just dressing
and dancing in front on the mirror in my bedroom. I was often confused and dumfounded by what I thought was a beautiful girl looking back
at me, approving....smiling.But when the courage came over me and I finally left the house, I found out that criticism and scurtiny was
right in front of every step I took.As Frederique said, "this cding is not an easy thing to accomplish".EVERYONE, everywhere (and ime not
being selfconsious) wants to see the drag queen.Lets face it, we are quite the curiosity. So Susy, I love your cincerity and I do agree
that being closeted has its place. I remember it quite fondly.
Going out of the house dressed as in womens cloths is not bravery, it is the absence of it.In face it is absence of all human qualities
and emotions.We are like the streakers of the 1980s only we are walking slowly (three inch heels lol) so folks can get a good look at us.
But for me the line has been crossed.I DID walk out the door, and got in the car, and went into a public place, and interacted with others,
and dranked a pepsi, and talked and finally allowed my heart to stop racing.Now I cant go back.Once your out of the house you can
never go back in..folks would miss me............people would call my phone....dana.

[NicoleScott]

The decision to go out in public or come out of the closet (those are two different things) can be based on much more than passability. Sadly, some of us would lose jobs, friends, and even family by coming out of the comfort and safety of the closet, no matter how passable we think we are. That's just the reality. I know I would lose my job. Coming out for the cause of public acceptance of crossdressing would not a prudent thing to me to do for the sake of my family. But the "everyone out" types say that sacrifices must be made.... It's the old "if you didn't vote then you can't complain" argument.
If you don't give a damn about my well-being (that is, what's in the best interest of me and my family), why should I give a damn about your public acceptance? After all, I'm happy in the closet, and public acceptance only helps you, not me. But if we're all in this together, then let's try to serve everybody's interest.
Those who have come out on your own terms must allow others to come out on theirs, if at all.
I agree with "show me the door, but don't push me through it".

[kimdl93]

I generally prefer positive comments - who doesn't, but at the same time, it seems to me that the point of a discussion board is to hear various points of view. One can't and shouldn't expect everyone to agree on every subject. One need not discourteous to dissent, of couse.

[Iskandra]

Why would i care about public acceptance when the person I love most is still learning to accept, how can I get others to understand when I myself am still working on understanding fully..
How can I make the public feel comfortable around me when i don't feel comfortable around the public?
When I bought my first skirt, there was no tag on it saying, "if you are a crossdresser you must wear this in public for he good of the 'cause'!"
But if it had the rebel in me would have paid no heed! :D

You don't like it.. well thank you for caring, coz I don't give a rats rear if you go out, wish to go out, or like me stay in.. all I care about is people who give as much respect and consideration as I'd love to give them!

Actually, ignore me, just consider those close to me and you have my respect, for they are my first and formost cause... I you can not understand that, then you are a very lonely person indeed!!

[Inna]

No former training in transgender psychology, so my statement should not be valued as anything else than just that, uneducated, however observant and hopefully intellectual strive at understanding subconscious mechanisms.

I totally support and sympathize with your statement and desire to be accepted as we all need in so many different ways, Suzy! Acceptance is the most primal of feelings and desires, developed over thousands of years of our human and pre-human history resulting in the tribal societies of today. But also as a byproduct of such acceptance, we have developed need to equalize and compartmentalize otherwise fluid and vast pool of character and expression.

You are a closeted crossdresser, nothing wrong with that! You get peed off when someone makes the case of it and tells you, you are doing it all wrong, Hell, I think everyone would get peed off. "I want to live my life the way I want to live it and if I do not hurt any one I should be left alone", have you heard this one before. I did countless times, and statement is true.

Now, the intriguing thing, this is all good and fine and self expression should be left alone, because it is just that, "self expression", however, if statements of "you should this or you should that", drive you literally up the wall then you could be expressing dissatisfaction with your own self through subconscious. Hyper sensitivity is often an expression of subconscious storm brewing within. Sometimes, or rather, most of the time we are unaware of such turmoil and do not understand it ourselves.

Now, please, this is just a theoretical blah, blah, blah, and if you read this, do not take it as directed at anything. I truly believe in your statement of freedom of expression and being just your self.
All this is a very sensitive subject and it can surely create a lot of tension and anxiety. And for most, I want to believe that others by telling you, "oh, you should go out" are just trying to help the best they can, because of their own experiences, of course there are also some that may be simply in your face, I am wright, galls and that would be crud.

To tell you the truth, you look amazing and your body is phenomenal so when one sees such a beauty and non of ya is shared with the outside world, then one can simply not only get jealous but try to be encouraging so that you can amaze some passers by, with your presence.

All in love, Inna :)

[suchacutie]

Thank you Donni...a wonderful post.

It is really sad that anyone would even think of criticizing how any of us express our feminine selves. There can be no point to it except to inflate the criticizer's ego. Sad :(

tina

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Hiding in the closet and not going outside the house are two different things. Stay in, dress as you like but don't moan about how the world treats you, don't complain about how your wife won't accept you and don't rail about how women get "more" than you do.


Right. While I often say that "closets are for clothes, not people." and have often said that openness about "this thing of ours of varying kinds" with our loved ones is a good thing, and that going out in public is in general, also a good thing...I'm not the sort of person to hold a gun to ones head.


I don't think many here deny you the right to stay home. That usually isn't the issue. You want equality and rights? Then be willing to be out and do something about it

Right, it's as I say to those who say they'd lose their job or friends....if that's the case then do SOMETHING to help make things better for the next generation, so they won't have the same problems we did/do.



However, personally, I don't buy the "We remain in the closet because it's our preference" statement. It's your preference because of all the potential risks. If I were in a cage surrounded by hungry wolverines raised on a strict diet of tranny meat, It would be perfectly reasonable that my preference is to stay in the cage. But I see no reason to pretend that the cage is just so awesome that I'd rather stay in it whether the wolverines were there or not. That's possible, but it just isn't likely.

I like that phrasing of the issue VERY much...well said, Oh Purple One of Comedy.


The decision to go out in public or come out of the closet (those are two different things) can be based on much more than passability.

Yes indeed, they are two different things, I consider the second (to immediate family) to be more important than the first.


Sadly, some of us would lose jobs, friends, and even family by coming out of the comfort and safety of the closet, no matter how passable we think we are.

First off, I have to say, you can never be "absolutely" sure....people can surprise us. One of the reasons I didn't come out to my immediate family for years was that I was afraid and doubted their love for me. I was wrong and it made them sad that I had doubted them so. Any any person who would de-friend me because I'm transgendered is someone I wouldn't want to have as a friend in the first place.


I know I would lose my job.

Okay then...are you absolutely sure about that? Yes, you can be mostly sure....but sometimes our pessimism gets the better of us and we imagine worse outcomes than what will actually happen. It happened to me as described above. And lets just say it would happen...wouldn't it be a good thing to work for changes so that you WOULDN"T have to worry about your job? What if the knowledge that you're a CD got accidentally disclosed? And also, why work for an employer that would fire you for "This thing of ours of varying kinds"? Personally, I wouldn't. Why not work for one who wouldn't?


Coming out for the cause of public acceptance of crossdressing would not a prudent thing to me to do for the sake of my family.

Here's the thing....I want it to be so that you wouldn't have to worry.


But the "everyone out" types say that sacrifices must be made.... It's the old "if you didn't vote then you can't complain" argument.

Sacrifices must be made..but there are things you can do to make things better WITHOUT coming out. For you can vote in ways that encourages diversity and tolerance.


If you don't give a damn about my well-being (that is, what's in the best interest of me and my family), why should I give a damn about your public acceptance?

Because if having "this thing of ours of varying kinds" was to become "not a big deal" then you wouldn't have to worry about your job/friend/family, and thusly it WOULD be in your best interests. An example being the accidental disclosure I mentioned above.

Veronica

[Billie Jean]

I think what I see in the original post is just a call for respect for descision that may be different than yours. That is never a bad thing. We all our individuals with differing situations. The trouble comes when I judge others based on my situation. I'm for celebrating our individuality.Thats exactly right. We all should feel free to express ourselves as want:). To the sisters that are still in the closet, I just recently came out of it and the light is bright and still scares me from time to time. I still haven't come out to many people that I know and want to keep it that way for now.:battingeyelashes:Billie Jean

[Elle1946]

Lucky for me I don't live in a closet but I do live in a home, also I have a high fenced in back yard. It is where my wife and I feel most comfortable. I underdress when out in public. Being comfortable with whom you are and where you are is important. I live my life the way I desire and others can live theirs the way they want to, which is the way it should be.

[NicoleScott]

Veronica (post #73), this is the real world, not Fantasyland where people don't get fired for no good reason. Yes, I know I would lose my job. I have known my boss both personally and professionally for over 25 years. I know his views - he is very outspoken on social matters. But I have a good job that I like and it pays me well. I won't quit my job or put it at risk for future generations of crossdressers. How selfish of me!
I have more to lose than I have to gain, because I'm happy in the closet. Violet said "It's your preference because of all the potential risks." EXACTLY!!
All the factors that must be weighed when deciding to come out or stay in the closet, must be made BY THAT PERSON.
Veronica, in the OP Suzy committed her support for any crossdresser who wants to stay in or come out, and asked for others crossdressers' support for those who choose to stay in the closet. Is the only bit of support you can muster is "not holding a gun to one's head"? Thanks.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

But I have a good job that I like and it pays me well. I won't quit my job or put it at risk for future generations of crossdressers. How selfish of me!

Did I say you needed to put your job at risk? No, I most certainly did not, because I am VERY careful with my words and use qualifier statements, and in fact said that there were things you could do to help WITHOUT coming out in any way.


I have more to lose than I have to gain, because I'm happy in the closet. Violet said "It's your preference because of all the potential risks." EXACTLY!!

I have no problem with the choice, except from what I've seen it's not the best choice in the long run.


All the factors that must be weighed when deciding to come out or stay in the closet, must be made BY THAT PERSON.

True, but that doesn't mean that other people who have Seen this sort of discussion before....12 years ago, can't give you the wisdom of their experience. Everything I say comes from being in the online transcommunity for over a decade. And, in fact, a decade ago, I said some of the things you said...but I was...how might I say it...naive.


Veronica, in the OP Suzy committed her support for any crossdresser who wants to stay in or come out, and asked for others crossdressers' support for those who choose to stay in the closet.

I'm going to use a tag line used by a transperson I know of from elsewhere: Support does not equal approval. I consider the closet to be a long term hindrance to transfolks. Sure, it makes things easier in the short term for individuals, but over the long term, as a whole it is, to use the vernacular: NOT HELPING. For example, one of the reasons in-person crossdresser support groups are having issues is that the closet issue makes it hard for them to do mass media outreach and makes it hard to start/run groups as well.

Some people have said on these boards that society views crossdressers as perverts. While I am not that passimistic and don't think it's that bad, one of the reasons some people might is because they don't know any crossdressers personally because they're almost all closeted! How can society as a whole accept crossdressers if crossdressers own behavior says to them "it's got to be bad or they wouldn't all hide it"


Is the only bit of support you can muster is "not holding a gun to one's head"? Thanks.

It's a metaphor. Geezus. What I was saying was that even though I think the closet isn't a good thing in the long term I'm not going to be overly pushy on the subject. You may notice that I don't start threads on my views on the closet, and I respond but rarely in threads l like this, and only when I think the closeted folks are being unreasonably fearful AND not doing things to make it better WITHOUT needing to be open about "this thing of ours of varying kinds".

Of course, some people seem to think that any negative comment towards the closet in general is being pushy...it's not. Trust me, the closet isn't a good thing long term, and I wish I had come out of it in regards to my immediate family long before I did. And although I don't exactly broadcast my version of "this thing of ours of varying kinds" to the world yet....though I will most likely do so in the future...I'm not exactly the most masculine of persons. And I have sworn to not lie about it if I am asked.

I've also done little things, here and there, that anyone could do. I called up my Congressman in supposrt of the trans-enclusive ENDA (Employment non-discrimination act), and did the same for the amendments to Illinois Human rights codes that covered transgendered folks back in 2005. Didn't have to come out in any way to do that.

Veronica

[Diana Bain]

True be told, we are all men who are also women. Therefore we are "complicated." and no one in this forum should stand in judgement of others. We are who we are! Each of us has our comfort zone and that should be respected by all. The real world is hard enough! All of us here should care for us all. Diana

[Princess Chantal]

A big thumbs up :thumbsup: to you Suzy for being proud of your crossdressing.

[NicoleScott]

Veronica, you can pick apart my posts sentence by sentence to show why reasons for staying in the closet are invalid. In doing so, you make it clear that your own experiences make you wiser than those like me who choose to stay closeted. It's obvious that you are merely pushing a coming-out agenda and have no interest in supporting those who want to choose their own path, if that choice is to keep their crossdressing private, at least for now. Your "been-there-done-that-trust-me-I-know-better" stance smacks of snobbery.

[Samantha_Smile]

Not all of us girls in the closet are “hiding” but just living our lives the way we choose. There is an issue here that’s not being addressed I think. It’s about the freedom to live our life the way we choose without being criticised for it.
Time and time again I read members [usually the same ones over and over again] criticising other members for not coming out to the world.
If I started to criticise all the members that went out dressed, saying they were not helping our case by going out in a women’s dress I would get attacked from all sides! [I don’t think like that by the way]
This is a support group. How about supporting me and all the others that do not go out, not because we are scared but because we choose not to. Or like me have no need to.

I will support you, all of you.
How about supporting me!

SUZY

HERE-HERE!

My girlfriend/fiance knows I dress, but as far as everyone else in my life is concerned, I am in the closet.
This is of no matter since I have no wish to live as a girl/trans-girl.
As my dressing is of no matter to anyone else, why do I have to tell them. Everyone has secrets from the world and this is mine!


Well said Suzy!

[Princess Chantal]

Well I could say that I have "been-there-done-that-trust-me-I-know-better"....... Know better not to preach my version of crossdressing on to others. I take a pleasure in listening, seeing or reading about the diverse landscape of crossdressing and get annoyed when I see people kicking dirt on a crossdressing activity that is different from their own

[Nigella]

Marvellous isn't it? A thread that asks for tolerance for those who choose to live behind closed doors and for others to accept that decision turns into a battle. This is done