Who is "society"?

[VioletJourney]

It's inevitable in this forum that something gets blamed on "society". There's always some comment along the lines of "society doesn't accept what we do", but who exactly is "society"? Is there a collective consciousness like Jung [-]researched[/-] guessed at which picks out arbitrary groups and victimizes them? Or is the victimization all in our heads?

On this website, stories of accepting strangers are vastly more prevalent than stories of persecution. Plenty of people out there are fine with what we do, and all those people are part of that big bad monster we call society. Perhaps we just like to blame our own doubts and fears about ourselves on "society" because it's an undefined faceless entity.

What do you think? Is society really a definitive entity which hates us? Do you think it's just an easy scapegoat for us? Something else? Share your thoughts!

[Dawn cd]

I agree with you, dear Violet, that most people are kind and generous. I think human nature is inclined to goodness. Ann Frank observed, famously, that people are basically good, but that didn't stop Nazi thugs from sending her and her family to a death camp. The scars and wounds suffered from people on this site give testimony to the real hurts that can happen in this world. Even if hurtful people represent only thirty or forty percent of the population, they can turn "society" toxic. Their views get shaped into repressive laws. We have the wounds to show for it. Let's not overdramatize the existence of evil because goodness does exist, and in the long run, I believe, will prevail, but let's also not deny the reality of sometimes massive social dysfunction.

[Violetgray]

I don't think 'society' is a boogeyman we just made up to explain away our lack of courage. We often still have to fear coming out to our relatives and spouses. We still can't crossdress at work. There are people who like to target the transgendered. I have a friend who was ridiculed while she was on the bus, and who was almost jumped while waiting to catch a cab. There are definitely people that hate us, but then again there are definitely people that hate you no matter who you are. And the groups that society picks to ostracize are not arbitrary, but are usually groups of people who are relatively small in number but differ in some major way.

[Diane Elizabeth]

"Society" is an entity that does not care/hate/dislike anyone that doesn't fit in with their ideals. At various times thru history there were the Puritans, Irish, Chinese, HIV, Catholic, Mexicans, Jewish, Women, and Musliims, and many more. This is mostly not from hate but "FEAR" that drives them Hate or fear for many is the same. Over time many fears had been conquered. And many are still out there in small groups outside the normal "society" that go after smaller groups or individuals because of difference. There could be, and probably are papers or thesises done on the subject to great length. I am not going to do that here. Not my styke, But the best way to protect ourselves is to educate the ones that are ignorant abouot what CD/TG is. Education won't make all of society to accept us. But it will improve our chances of getting laws that protect us from all but the worst. That being the ones that don't care about the law. Such as locking up your car won't stop anyone but the innocent and lawbiding. Not someone determined to get in.
Off my soap box for now. Thank you. Thank you. Please do not throw any rotten eggs or tomatos at me. I will now go hide in my corner.

[Sarah Doepner]

I had a couple of thoughts on this. First, there are realistic threats out there. Our need to preserve our health and safety makes it so we magnify our attention in regard to those threats. Then they swell up and look a lot bigger than they actually are, reducing our ability to see the rest of the world clearly. It seems that those who actually go out on a regular basis manage to resize the threats to a more realistic size, most of the time. Second, most of society could care less, but there are the outliers, the real threats who do act out. The problem is with the folks who could care less not being willing to care enough to deal with the bad actors. The ones who stand by and let any minority suffer abuse just because they are a minority or different don't realize what they are losing by not standing up. It's their world being ruined as well, but for fear or apathy they don't act and bits and pieces of that nice life are chipped away.
I need to remind myself this at times and stand up for others, sometimes even if I don't like them or what they stand for. The next time it could easily be me on the other end of the abuse and I'll be needing support from strangers.

[deebra]

This is how I see the real world, if a gay, bi, lesbian and crossdresser walked in WalMart or the mall who do you think would get the most negative looks and the rest would just blend, the answer is the crossdresser. Our society is not ready to see a man in a skirt and nice set of boobs knowing he doesn't have boobs even if that's how he chooses to dress. Some would view it as discusting and a pervert and he must be homosexual. I don't think I've been sheltered on this issue, I see males wanting to condem more so than females. I think our numbers are so much smaller than gays or lesbians that society (in this case I would say 95%) would see us in a non-accepting negative light. I do appreciate those that dress and go out in society, they do help society see us and seeing is getting use-to and maybe accepting.

[GirlieAmanda]

OK I ran into a little "society" today. I tried to go into a salon to ask about waxing. They were not thrilled that I was A. a man and B. TG. They refused to do any leg waxing. I just got the vibe that I was not welcome there so much. I mean I was a customer so they had to serve me but I think they would rather I go elsewhere. These are the little things that are the unaccepting or barely accepting "society" to me.

[Jamie001]

OK I ran into a little "society" today. I tried to go into a salon to ask about waxing. They were not thrilled that I was A. a man and B. TG. They refused to do any leg waxing. I just got the vibe that I was not welcome there so much. I mean I was a customer so they had to serve me but I think they would rather I go elsewhere. These are the little things that are the unaccepting or barely accepting "society" to me.

Did they tell you that they are refusing service to you because you are "male"? If so, that it illegal and could be grounds for a lawsuit.

[Sue101]

Society exists but it has many factions so invariably any generalizations about what society wants will fall short. But don't forget that femininity which we desire so much is a social construct so only has meaning within society. Femininity would be meaningless if you were alone on a deserted island. I think the issue here is that we should be in control of how society interacts with our lives. People make the mistake of letting society rule over them and then blame it for why they cannot do what they want to. In reality you can be in control if you wish it.

[donnalee]

In essence, society is what you choose it to be, with the caveat that those choices may have unpleasant consequences. If you have a job that makes it difficult to CD, get one that doesn't. If you fear violence, stay away from people who can hurt you, if you can't, go armed and make sure you know how to use that arm. If you don't survive or get hurt, make sure it comes at a serious cost to the other side.
Control your destiny.

[Krista1985]

Society- according to the dictionary...

1. A group of humans broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture. (I like this one)

2. The totality of social relationships among humans. (I thought that was Facebook...)

3. The institutions and culture of a distinct self-perpetuating group. (Pretty solid definition too.)

Blah blah blah...

Society is an artificial linguistic concept, it can't hurt anybody. Society gets a bad wrap, we blame it for everything from economic outcomes to crime in our communities. Society is not to blame for the ills of the TG community. Intolerant jerks can, and often do, make us feel bad about who we are and what we do. It's important to remember though, more and more oppressive d-bags are considered tools while good tolerant people are considered cool. Bullying is out, toleration and diverse friendships are in.

Yes the tables are turning, small minded and hateful people are being forced into the closet. If there's one thing I won't tolerate, it's intolerance.

[GirlieAmanda]

. If there's one thing I won't tolerate, it's intolerance.

I love this! That is so funny but its so powerful. I want this on a girly T shirt to wear. That would be cool. You made my day.

[sometimes_miss]

Well, there's me, and then there's everybody else: Society.

[ReineD]

What do you think? Is society really a definitive entity which hates us? Do you think it's just an easy scapegoat for us? Something else? Share your thoughts!

I've also been guilty of using the word as a catch-all. When I use it, it is an average of how I perceive are the attitudes about TGs among people who don't know any TGs, in general.

I do exclude the knowing and understanding people from my meaning. So, when I use "society", I mean:


The friends and acquaintances I've heard speak disparagingly about crossdressers in front of me, not knowing that my SO is a CDer, and everyone else that I don't know who feel the same way.
The negative portrayals of CDs in the media.
The sensationalizing of CDs in the media.
The videos on youtube of guys dressing as women as a big, fat joke, in fundraisers.
The negative comments on CD and TS videos on youtube.
The people who do read us when we go out and who stare and point us out to the people they are with.
People in general who are polite just as long as it is at arms length, but who would not want their sons to be CDers, or their daughters to date one.
The friends who would find out and be polite, but stop including us in their plans and who definitely would not feel comfortable seeing my SO dressed.
The family who would disapprove.


:sad:

[Vicky_Scot]

We are society, every member of this forum is a member of society.