Day 2, not much better. Will it end?

[britney1]

Ok, day 2, things start to get better right? Wrong. Although my wife did sit down to talk to me, we are right back where we were last night. She went and saw a pshchyiatrist (councelor) after work today. He said he did not have expertise in this are (gender issues) and said he didn't know of anyone in town who did. I live in a community of abou 85,000 people, but according to him, know one in town deals with these issues. My thinks I am just confused. She has made comments like "I will not accept this, it is morally wrong" and "any women who accept this kind of behavior from thier husbands, are just as messed up as the crossdresser himself" WOW! Think I have a chance here? I did follow everyone's advice and didn't get defensive. But she kept coming back, "you don't see anything wrong here" She also thinks this is something that I have choosen to "indulge" in and therefor is a sin. In her mind it's ok to think feminine, but not to act feminine. "your a man" she kept repeating over and over. Another concern she has is Ok, so you start with just dressing in the house, and then it becomes an everyday thing, and what about when we want to start having children? How are you going to explain it to them? I said I wouldn't. She said, No, I will have to explain that your dad is sick when your daughter comes out of the bedroom with daddy's wig.

As of right now, it seems the only solution is to not dress at all. I said I won't dress in front of you, and she said, well then it's just another big secret then.

WHAT A MESS! I did what everyone said and didn't get defensive. I just listened to her. Tried to answer her questions the best I could. She refused to read anything regarding the subject because that is just propaganda to justify my "illness".

As always, I still need your advice and help.

[jo_ann]

you don't see anything wrong here
Nope, ask her to come in here and see how many men do the same thing


what about when we want to start having children?
If she's so close minded and won't even try to understand, you should probably hold off on children

I'll never understand how some women can't understand this lifestyle when they crossdress all the time (or is your wife the type that wears a dress to go bowling?), so she wouldn't understand since she never crossdresses?

[Wendy me]

girlfreind it is so her right now and for some time to come to vent be hurt and feel the way she is feeling the pshchyiatrist (councelor) thing is not a bad idear at all .. see a lot of times it helpes to have some one else involved in your talking and yes you may never have her on board with your cding ... but if you do get to counceling it's a step that just might save your marrage... be strong and if you can answer her questions .. but rember some questions she asks well you cant give a right answer to your wrong eather way ...hang in there rember this is not just something small droped on her ....

[Melissa Ryan]

I wish that I had something brilliant to say to you, but I am at a loss. I am sorry, good luck and take care of the two of you.:)

[MsEva]

Oh, hi Brittany,
So sorry to hear that things haven't gotten any better, but this is a big thing...I know it took my dear wife a loooooooooooong time to come to terms with it..and truthfully she is a trooper, but I am not sure she really understands it. I am not sure if I do! This is not going to be a sprint..this is going to be a long marathon run. This site is great for us girls ...we finally have a chance to see that we are not alone..that there are functioning people with the same issues we face..your dear wife needs to know that she is not alone too. A counselor is a good start. It would be helpful if she were acceptable to doing research into the problem. My wife bought a sort of clinical book on crossdressing and read it..she was not too happy to find that the urge for us to me ourselves won't repeat won't go away. But she was happy to see that most of us are heteor...we are not apt to leave her for another..and most of us are the guy next door, normally functioning people..albiet ones with more fashion sense. Please hang in there. Time will most likely heal the scars.

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

Time for introspection and less sugar coating.

"I will not accept this, it is morally wrong" and "any women who accept this kind of behavior from thier husbands, are just as messed up as the crossdresser himself" WOW! Think I have a chance here?
Not as long as reason is fails to present itself.

She also thinks this is something that I have choosen to "indulge" in and therefor is a sin. In her mind it's ok to think feminine, but not to act feminine. "your a man" she kept repeating over and over.
Sin is not up for interpretation.
What is a man?
That is to be interpreted. Tell her what a man is.

As of right now, it seems the only solution is to not dress at all. I said I won't dress in front of you, and she said, well then it's just another big secret then.
The secret is out. It's up to her to accept it as truth.

I just listened to her. Tried to answer her questions the best I could. She refused to read anything regarding the subject because that is just propaganda to justify my "illness".
Time to for her to do the listening.
You have to show her how much cross dressing means nothing at all.
For anyone reading this, disagreeing, be quiet. Clothes mean nothing and I have said this over and over.
What's important is found in action and inaction as it pertains to the comfortability of others.
Attitude.
You go out of your way for others, namely her, right?
You do your manly "duties", hold a job, provide at least half of the upkeep?

Show her that man she is so eager to see that he is still there for her, take her and show her that topic at hand don't piddle around please with a cherry on top.
You need to get some points across.
1) Most people crossdress at some point. 90% of women do it all the time. According to "traditional" women's (lack of) logic all people with a penis wear pants, all people with a vagina wear skirts.

2) She has known you for x number of [unit of time]. That person she knew still exists and in the same way as for that amount of time. Ask her what is different. Nothing is other than she thinks you are mentally ill. :rolleyes:

3) Mental illnesses are solved with pills (much to my dismay). Tell her this: until a pill is introduced that "cures" crossdressing, it isn't an illness. Period. It's all attitude and deep down personality.

For the single readers, do yourself a favor and don't get into a relationship without going over this hurdle.

[britney1]

I agree with going to counceling but the problem today was that since this quack didn't deal with it and didn't know of anyone who did, it made me out to be an even bigger freak. It actually had negative results. It reinforced my wifes thinking that I am "not normal". Thanks a lot shrink.

[MsEva]

Gosh Brit...I wish I knew an answer here...again it will take time..you know you are in my thoughts and prayers...

[Star]

britney,
i'm sorry for you...and your wife. I don't think having her come here is going to help sis....
love

[KatieZ]

Listing of Professional Counsellors

This is a listing of Professional Counselors reportedly doing work with and for Transgendered persons. Compuserve and Genderline make no representations as to their abilities or qualifications. If you have a negative experience with any of the counselors listed below, or would like to make an addition of others you have found helpful to this listing...please contact me via email. This file was prepared largely from information obtained from Feminet B1028

ERIC APPLEGATE, MS 1010 East 86th St 34 Winterton - 1030 bldg Indianapolis IN 46240

LINDA DANIELLE GREENE 5011 Brandywine Dr. #1007 Indianapolis IN 46241

PAMPHLET FILE LIBRARIAN Goshen Public Library 601 South Fifth St Goshen IN 46526

MICHAEL SMITH 108 E Vermilya Ave Bloomington IN 47401

JUNE M. REINISCH, PH.D. The Kinsey Institute 416 Morrison Hall, Ind. U Bloomington IN 47405

complete link is here:
http://www.genderweb.org/medical/docs/cssource.html

[KatieZ]

Here is a more comprehensive list of therepists throughout Indiana. You can call first and find out their expertise in dealing with gender issues. Your wife surely would have to at least concede to talk to one that does know something, being the one she went to admitted to not having any knowledge in that field.

http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/ppc/state/Indiana.html?iorb=4764

[MsEva]

Johnny on the spot there Katie...nice to know there are trained professionals out there

[KatieZ]

One other thing. Women are not prone to keep something like this bottled up. I would bet that she has by now at least talked to her Mother about this, and possibly other family members. News like this travels fast once it is out, so be prepared to find out your secret is no longer secret. At least that was my experience when it happened to me.

[MsEva]

To back up what Katie said..she is right...women need to talk about their problems..IMO..my dear wife confided in her twin sister...in some ways she was really cool about it.but this is a bit of contention..you see her twin sister is a lesbian..I think my dressing hit a bit too close to home for her..at any rate her sister wanted to see some pictures of me dressed. My dear wife asked me to send her some..so I did..she thought I looked cute..but was concerned that I wanted to go all the way for SRS..me..a total woman..hardly...I know who I am.. I think..my fem side is just a part of me..it doesn't define me;)

[Sophia Rearen]

Britney,
We have come to know you a bit since you became a member and of course we feel your pain as crossdressers. Can you help us out here? And I'm not being cynical, what is it that you love about your wife? Help us understand you and your wife.

[GypsyKaren]

Hi Britney,

It looks like you're going to have to stay in your foxhole for a while, at least until you find the right person to talk about this with.

She tells you to be a man? I told myself that a thousand times or so, the problem being that I'm not a man, so that didn't work to well. Wish I had a cure for your problem, but I don't. As always, I'm here for you if you need me, pm me anytime.

GypsyKaren

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

cding is something u cant just stop doing no matter how hard u think u can try ,,,,if she is dead set on NOT wanting to understand then ur just gona have to say "SEE YA" and move on with ur life...


this is one of the many reasons why i showed my wife the first week we met that i crossdress,,,,so if she had a problem with it then nothing is lost except some time.........


on a side note.... whos to say whats normal?????

its not up to any one person to deside whats right or wrong for anyone, as long as ur not breaking any laws

[Darlene.]

Hi Britney,

I can guarantee you if you don't get this straightened out between you before you have children you will go on to regret the day you decided to stay in the marriage,

Second you might want to reevaluate your reasons for wanting the relationship to continue.

Having said that I wish you well.

[Laurie Ann]

Britney,

I am sorry things are not currently working out between the two of you. I wish I had a bit of magic to offer that would make this all end up positively. I am struggling with the issue of telling my wife but am deathly afraid of her reaction. I believe in the power of prayer and I constantly do that seeking guidance. I want you to know that you and your wife are in my thoughts and prayers. I trust that things will be better for you both as you continue to talk this out and always show the love for each other which led you both to marry. I have no profound thoughts or answers only prayer and good wishes.

Love Laurie

[Ava Mouse]

Britney,

Wow, that's sad.. but what about unconditional love? Does she love an image of a perfect man? i.e. Is any man she could've married without a sin/weakness of some sort?

Would she be happier with a man who's sin is a socially acceptable one, like being macho, or an alcholic or gambler?

Funny how some sins are socially acceptable, but others unforgiveable? I think that's what you're struggling with...

My marriage is fantastic, because I do not hold my wife to ideal stereotypes. I allow her to be masculine or un-feminine sometimes. I encourage her to learn how to change tires, or use tools, etc. And that's part of the give & take.

If she's not forgiving or willing to love an imperfect man, then, she will never be happy with any man...

Just my 2c...

[britney1]

Thanks again for all your support.

My wife went out with her best female friend tonight to a bar. Although through all of this, I had packed Britney away, I could not resist the temptation to get dressed tonight while she is away. I unpacked her for a little bit and dressed up. I am her sober ride home so I should be ok with her coming home early. I feel such a relief being dressed right now. It has made me forget all the heartache. Although I do feel guilty right now.

But the question has entered my mind. Is crossdressing as important to me as the love I have for her? I mean is it worth losing her? Are there other ways to express my feminine side without dressing? Relationships are all about give and take right? Is this one battle I won't win? Is that my compromise? The questions keep running through my mind.

[Dana]

I've been down this merry road ~ twice!!! Its wasn't fun and it wasn't pretty. The first time was with my first and only wife, and the second was with the GG I rebounded into after my marriage failed.

Since, then I've not been in a relationship going on the last eight years ~ by choice.

At the time, I was in a senstive career position with the government ~ and the fact that I was a cross dresser ~ was the last thing I needed to brought to the forefront ~ it not only would have cost me my carrer. but had legal raminfications ~ which could unlclude severe punitative action.

One of the first things that you need to recognize is that you're up against at least 5,000 years of socialization, culturalization, etc, added on top of your wife's own personal socialization, culturalization and condintioning as to what a man is, and isn't, what a woman is and isn't. Add to this the teachings of Judeo~Christian religion, and to round it out rather nicely ~ your wifes own personal perceptions of likes, dislikes, turn-on's and turn-offs when it comes to men.

Obviously, you've got somethings going for you ~ that she likes and even admires about you, afterall she married you ~ and for the time being is willing to stay in the marriage.

There's really nothing you can go, about your wife's perceptions, attitudes, and believes about crossdresser ~she's aleady told you that she thinks its pervert, sick, abnormal, homosexual, freakish. Those come from core values, and are not likely to change in the near forseeable future, if indeed ever?

So what you're left with is yourself, and ultimatemly it comes down to this:

"What are YOU going to do about it?"

There are a number of things that you can and can't do~! I want go into listing what you have no control over. Which goes hand in hand with there's no need for you to worry about the decisions of a another person, nor about things you have no control over ~ which is what you're doing.

The following are just raw statistical data, which does not factor crossdressing into the equation:

FACT: Have of all first time marriages, end in divorce.

FACT: Of the the half of first time marriages that don't end in divorce ~ only 13% report that they're happliy married. Of the remainder, ~ they're basically living in a "martial comma" staying together for the sake of the children, finances, the status quo, what have you. They're married ~ but they're NOT happy!

FACT: The divorce rate for men who marry under the age of 25 is 90%!

FACT: The divorce rate for men who marry because they got the woman pregnant is 90%

FACT: 90% of all divorce petitions are filed by women!

The matter at hand is this: Which is more important to you? You wife, your marriage, or crossdressing? If its crossdressing, then you and the wife from what you have described ~ have what is probally called ill-reconcilable differences ~ the most common ground for filing for divorce. If such is the case ~ get out, and get out now!

This woman cannot get this concept wrapped around her head, in her head, nor through her head~! Not today, not tomorrow, not next month, not next year! She didn't go to see the counselor to validate YOUR feelings, she went to see the counselor to validate HER feelings ~ which he more or less did!

If on the other hand, you find that she means that much to you, then you're going to have to find a way to eradicate crossdressing from you're day to day life, and mean compeltely. At least the physical act of it! Mentally, emotionally, you never will. It will be a part of you for the rest of your life! Simply, because its a part of who you are ~ and you're right ~ either way you're screwed!

She's already has clearly stated that she's un-willing to give an inch on this issue.

You're young, these are the best years of your life! I promise you, you stay with this woman, and never cross dress ever again in your life ~ she's going to use this against you. She's going to perpetually, and neverending throw it up in your face ~ regardless of what the disagreement is about.

If you think this is painfull, invest the best years of your life, have children, spend 10,15,20 years with this woman ~ and then go through it!

The best thing that you can do ~ is pick up, pack up, and get out, and get out NOW! Start over! But, the next time you get involved with a woman ~ be straight up honest with her about who and what you are! Early enough on to where she won't be hurt. They're out here! I know! I'm holding no less than three off at arms' length at present.

As you leave, do not bring up the "issue", just simply tell her, "I have issues! You have issues! We have issues in this marriage! You're incapable of rationally discussing any of them in a rational manner and without emotion. I'm obviously not the man you thought I was, want, nor need! I believe the best thing to take place here, is for me to leave! I love you, I will always love you! Should you, decide that you want to work with me to save this relationship, this marriage, this is where I will be, and how you can get in contract with me! I want this relationship! I need this relationship! I want and need you! I love you, not because I need you, I NEED you because I love you and you're the only woman I love" And, then shut up and leave!

The key part here is to shut up! Don't say another word! NOTHING! Zilch!

One of two things will happen. She'll come around to where you and her can rationally discuss it, and you and she can find a counselor to help you work throught the EMOTIONS of this and all the other issues of your marraige, or she'll move on with her life! If she chooses the later, you'll be better off in the long run!

She may have already made the decision to leave you, and may have already left you in her heart and mind, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. If she has, and she's still with you, its only because she's working out the logistics of it all! Either that, or wanting for the next guy to come along ~ that she can leave you for! If you think you're in pain now, ~ wait for that to happen!

Far, far better that you be the one that leaves ~ as painful and as hard as that may be ~ than to be the one left behind! You think you've experience guilt for being a cross dresser before, ~ you have no idea!

So, from my experience ~ the best thing is to go ahead and deliver the pre-emptive strike, and get what you fear most over with! As I said, one of two things will happen ~ either she'll come around, and at least be willing to work out a compromise ~ or she'll move on with her life.

You know what? She's already made her decision! And, even she doesn't know it!

[britney1]

Although I greatly appreciate your support in helping me with this situation, I have to respectfully disagree with you. Nothing in my life is more important than my marriage. NOTHING! I will have to find a way to deal with this if she can not accept or tolerate it. But leaving is not in the picture. I don't know about you, but I took vows to uphold the institution of marriage for better or worse. Right now is obviously the worst part, but there will be better. We communicate well together and that's one of the main reasons I married her. Thank you for your opinions. I really do appreciate it. But when I said I do till death do us part, I didn't have my fingers or toes crossed, and I truely belive that she feels the same way.

[Dana]

I understand! And, I commend you for that! I really do! I was speaking from my experience, devoid of emotion. I'm not the one that has made the mental and EMOTIONAL investment into this relationship that you have ~ I'm outside looking in, you see.

And, I'm glad that I got a "rise" out of you ~ so to speak! Not that I did it for my own sadistic purpoese~ and it truly was not my intent to inflicit more pain and suffering than your current situation! Its speaks VOLUMES of your committment to your wife ~ of your devotion ~ of your LOVE for and of her!

But, my post accomplished this much ~ leaving is DEFINATELY out of the question! RIGHT?

Good! We're moving forward!

So to defined the delimina, she can't live with crossdressing ~ and you can't live without it! Its that not correct?

[Dana]

Have you read this thread?

[Dana]

Sorry!!!! Very informative!

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15659

[Dana]

A couple of things that I've finally gotten through my head!

I've transgendered ~ enough to want, desire, NEED to dress as a woman!

I'm fooling NO ONE but myself, and lying to NO ONE other than myself to say that I can move in with a woman ~ be it marriage ~ what have you ~ and say that its only a matter of time before I'm attracted like a moth to a lightbulb to her things!

[Sweet Susan]

With all due respect to Dana, I must jump in here and make my comment. I do not think suggesting that Britney take the first step and bounce out of the marriage is good advice at all. This is between Britney and her wife, and they need to work this thing out between them.

Dana, you have no idea what is going through Britney's wife's mind, and to suggest to Britney that her wife has already made up her mind to leave Britney, but doesn't yet know it, is simply destructive. Imagine Britney's wife's reaction if she were to agree to come on this site and learn for herself, and then the first thing she read was your lengthy post?!

[Lady Jayne]

Thanks again for all your support.

My wife went out with her best female friend tonight to a bar. Although through all of this, I had packed Britney away, I could not resist the temptation to get dressed tonight while she is away. I unpacked her for a little bit and dressed up. I am her sober ride home so I should be ok with her coming home early. I feel such a relief being dressed right now. It has made me forget all the heartache. Although I do feel guilty right now.

But the question has entered my mind. Is crossdressing as important to me as the love I have for her? I mean is it worth losing her? Are there other ways to express my feminine side without dressing? Relationships are all about give and take right? Is this one battle I won't win? Is that my compromise? The questions keep running through my mind.

Britney I feel for you I really do, I also understand why your considering stopping But with all thats going on at the moment the first oppertunity you get you choose to dress, that said do you really believe you could stop permanantly, I doubt it. Even if you did get rid of all your Britney things I honestly believe that the stress of denying your femme side and the subsequent resentment you would feel towards your wife would be just as damaging to your marrige as the crossdressing.You can make promises to your wife and mean them at the time but eventually the urge would be just too strong to deny.Besides It's already out there now you cannot make here forget all you can do is try to reassure here that your still the warm loving husband you have always been infact it's probably true to say that your the man/husband you are not inspite of but because of your dressing.you must still give her time but try to gently encourage her to get information to help her understand that this isn't the end of her world.It isn't bad or uncommon as she thinks and hopefully given time she will come round to some level of acceptance. I will be thinking of you and praying that things work out.

[britney1]

I havn't promised to stop at all. I know that would be detrimental to my own well being, but at this time, I have tried to curtail it a bit. (had a relapse tonight though) We will just have to see where this crazy journey takes our relationship. It can make it stronger than ever imaginable or tear it apart, but we are working through that now.

[LindaMarie]

Britney,

No advice to add, but just sending encouragement and best wishes. The first few days are the worst. Good luck to both of you.

All the best.

[Deborah_UK]

The same thing that Lady Jayne said also struck me, on one hand Britney, you said "Nothing in my life is more important than my marriage. NOTHING! I will have to find a way to deal with this if she can not accept or tolerate" but only two hours earlier with your wife out at a bar with a friend what was the first thing you did? "I could not resist the temptation to get dressed tonight while she is away. I unpacked her for a little bit and dressed up".

Playing devils advocate here, it was feasible that she may have got a cab home and found Britney once more. I can imagine her further reaction to that one.

I'm not saying stop dressing - but you have to realise that Britney won't go away, and to get your wife to accept that is not a one day thing or a two day thing - it could take weeks, months maybe even years - the important things are : -

a) your wife has looked for counselling - so she presumably sees something in the marriage worth saving - don't just dismiss what that one psychiatrist has to say - go and find one that you both can go to

b) she is coming home at night (mine didn't - but thats another story!)

c) she is talking - ok it's still anger, and as someone else said - she has had years of socialisation which reinforces the male/female stereotypes and "crossdressers are wrong and unnatural and wierd" (lots of cd'ers feel the same way!)

Britney, there is no fix all pill, you have long hard road ahead and it would be wrong and foolish to suggest otherwise, but while the three things above pertain there is hope.

Having lost the woman I loved more than anything because of my crossdressing, I know the pain and anguish (as do many others on here) that you are going through - and unfortunately there might not be any happy ending, but here you do have support and understanding to draw upon to see you through this awful time - which I never had (no such thing as the internet when my wife and I split up).

[Dana]

With all due respect to Dana, I must jump in here and make my comment. I do not think suggesting that Britney take the first step and bounce out of the marriage is good advice at all. This is between Britney and her wife, and they need to work this thing out between them.

Dana, you have no idea what is going through Britney's wife's mind, and to suggest to Britney that her wife has already made up her mind to leave Britney, but doesn't yet know it, is simply destructive. Imagine Britney's wife's reaction if she were to agree to come on this site and learn for herself, and then the first thing she read was your lengthy post?!


Let me clarify what I'm saying, (and I appreciate what YOU'RE SAYING ~ ITS VERY VALID!) I'm playing Devil's Advocate!

Not ONLY is what you just said, VALID ~ IT VERY MUCH NEEDS TO BE SAID!!!!!!!!!!


You, I, probally have already been through this! I know that I have! Twice!
Mine is not the only way! Before I go to bed, I'm going to get down on my knees, and say a prayer for Brittney and her wife! I will, I promise I will!

She's asked for help, and the sum knowledge of ALL out experiences! All the experiences of this board! All the opinions of this board to include GG's!

Someone here, (Preferablly, a GG) needs to step up to the plate, and play the part of her wife! If we can come up with every argument, counterargument, "Yea~! But!)

Rehearse her for what is to come!

Do you see the angle, I'm working from? If I'm wrong, that's fine!

This is someone who is in crsis! Lets pull together, and help them! We've all been there!

If I'm wrong, that's fine! Argue with me! Disagree with me! Object to me! But this is a FOURMN~! Let's all pull together here, and try to find a solution!

Maybe I am wrong! I wrote what I wrote ~ but God knows I don't have all the answers to all the questions ~ nor all the solutions to all of the problems, ~ not for myself ~ not for my life ~ and sure as hell not for Britneey and her wife!

I'm not trying to be offensive, nor am I trying to be the some self righteous person who knows all and see's all! Who has all the solutions, nor all the answers! Hell, I'm looking for them myself!

This is an EMOTIONAL, and I do mean very emotional subject! There's someone's life at stake at here! Her's (His ~ sorry) their marriage! They're relationshp!

I've visited at that level of Hell, and I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy!

I care not, that I am right nor wrong ~ I care about helping someone through something ~ a personal hell that I've been through ~ thorugh it!

Let's work from there! Together!

I want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem! I want to be part of the answer, and not part of the question.

I've lurked more than I've posted here!

And, part of that has been coming to terms with who and what I am! As a person! Not a man, but as a human being!

Britney, I know you're in crisis! I know! And, my heart goes out to you! It really does! When I went through it, there was no internet! There was no email! There was no IM! There's was noone!

[Julie York]

I've kept out of this one as I haven't the personal experience to help directly.

But, I once saw a film and a woman was deeply upset and started slapping a man, angry, hurt, screaming.....and he let her....and let her..and let her....and then when she had got out all the anger she finally collapsed crying and finally opened up and was able to talk.

If you can absorb the 'punches' without any retaliation, she will have nowhere to go emotionally other than to finally talk and listen....because there is no-one to fight with...no opponent.

So plead with her to talk to you..to ask ANYTHING she wants.....That you will be HONEST in your answers.....(she feels betrayed and lied to already remember!)

Answer all the questions and prepare yourself first.....KNOW the answers.

This is what is going through her head...
Are you gay?
Do you want to be a woman?
Is she not attractive enough? Femine enough?
Are you sick?...Mentally ill?
Why did you do this sick perversion?
How long have you been doing this behind her back?
Why did you LIE to her and deceive her? (That's the BIG one!)
Are you going to do this again?
Is it a threat to her and her OWN self esteem?

And so on....

If you can get her to ask questions....questions...questions...then in some way or another you can begin to educate her, to explain, to help HER to understand that you love her more than anything and that this is a problem you both need to try and deal with.

Show her without restraint, by words and deeds that she means the world to you. Be contrite, be sorry, beg forgiveness for not being open with her from the start (because THAT is what 100% of women are REALLY angry about!).

I wish you luck! Sorry, I can't be more helpful.

[Amanda Leigh]

Everyone forgive me for saying this but I have too. I've heald it in enough. Britney asked for advice...good or bad its her desision to decide the advice she takes. In my opinion argueing over what is good and what is bad is the last thing she needs to see right now. I was blessed with a wife who accepts and enjoys Amanda so I don't have any advice to give exept Let her decide whats good or bad. Not us, its not our place...

[Sophia Rearen]

Dana, Wow! Powerful, powerful words. You have my deepest respect.
Sweet Susan, the timing may not be right, we won't know when it is, however, Dana's advice may be needed sometime.
Amanda Leigh, it's all part of being in the forum. And it's a good one. We are all here for Britney and her wife.
Dana, I know you are here for them too. As am I. However, in an earlier post I requested "what is it about your wife that you love?". Its gone unanswered.
How can we help if we don't know?
Britney, I respect your commitment to you vows, very admirable. You said, " We communicate well together and that's one of the main reasons I married her. Thank you for your opinions. I really do appreciate it. But when I said I do till death do us part, I didn't have my fingers or toes crossed, and I truely belive that she feels the same way." Girl, where is that communication now, when you most need it? And if you truely believe your wife will also be with you 'til death do you part then she will have to deal with the cding. You, I , all of us know it's not going away.
Best Regards,

[DonnaT]

There is another list of therapists at: http://drbecky.com/therapists02.html

Just scroll down to your state.

I read that you said you'd stop? Then didn't.

You alreaddy know how hard it is, even with your marriage on the line. This same issue raises it's ugly head with my wife, even though she has accepted it and understands it. Something will come up and the 'D' word will come up. I will still make no promises to stop. If she can no longer handle it, I love her enough to let her go.

[Tracy Lynn]

Britney,

Just wanted to say that I have been following this the past few days. Nothing to add in the way of advice. Just want to say that my thoughts and hopes are with you. I really hope things turn around for you as you seem to be very sweet and sincere.

Tracie.

[MsEva]

I spoke with my wife last night about Brittany's and Karren's situations. She can empathize with the wives of these two wonderful people. She also had a lot of sympathy for Brittany and Karen. She wanted to know the incidentals of the discoveries and said that she knows first hand how difficult the whole process can be. My dear wife is a keeper!:)

[Tamara Croft]

Just one question I have to ask Britney, how long have you actually been a crossdresser? months? years?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Britney - Dana

so much truth and pain in your statements...when dana says if you think its bad now...have some kids and wait 10 yrs...she is talking about ME!!!!!!!!!!!

i eradicated crossdressing for almost 15yrs.. got married, got VERY successful in my job, it was solved...i thought i can do this..i dont need to dress...time goes on...i start taking paxil for my anxiety..my oldest kid has genius IQ and ADHD...sex life takes a bad turn, i cant perform...next thing i know...i'm masturbating every nite to fictionmania stoires...then i buy some clothes...then i go out...

and voila ALL TENSION IS GONE>..I AM SO RELAXED...i remember that nite like it was yesterday ....i rush home..i want to have sex, romance i felt like i was back in the saddle......wife is uninterested, she acts like i'm from mars......years pass, no sex, kids are growing up..finally we go to therapy...wife says she feels nothing for me..i'm a good husband, father provider..she doesnt love me..i'm crushed...i spill the beans...now add to it that she says i betrayed her.. this is where we are now britney..

now i am actually sitting here wondering is crossdressing more important than my family.. and i may not have a choice in the matter when all is said and done...

i am trying to work through to the point that dana brings up....WHAT DO YOU REALLY WANT??? and i have found for 40 years i have lied to myself about that, and now i (and my family) the price must be paid...

britney you are there now///i hope you can be honest with YOURSELF first and then at least you can deal with all the issues that are going to come up in your marriage...

peace
michele

[LilMsShy1]

Dear Britney,

Wow! What a mess U have placed URself -n-2! I agree with Dana on this 1 as well as UR wife. Or, I should say, I agree with Dana because of UR wife's reaction. Lets B honest here sweety, unless U just started CDing yesterday than there isn't much of an exscuse here as 2 why U didn't tell her prior to exchanging "I Do's", lol. I'd prolly also hold off on throwin out the "shrinks a quack deal" I'd bet a dollar 2 a donut U knew what U were marryin long before U married her as well as I'd be willin to bet the deed 2 my castle that U knew exactly howed she react if U told her or she discovered it on her own. Now I'm certainly no advocate 4 shrinks, social services, insurance company's or closed mindedness, but U might had ought 2 have kept this secret, secret. Those of U readin this ponderin weather or not 2 take the plunge & tell it, U already know how she's going to take this revelation so please stop kiddin urselfes, the only thing U should be concerned with is what R U goin 2 do about it once & if ya do tell it!

"Till death do us part", unless U do something I can not live with, thats in the fine print. How admirable that is I do commend, however with 12 years of Law Enforcement experience specializing in domestic dispute issues, U started thisin out on a lie, odds of makin it "Till Death Do U Part", slim 2 none.

I've been a member of this forum 4 a tad over a year now however I do not post many replies I do read quite a few of the posts & I also direct alot of the aforementioned comments to those who kept it a secret with disatourous results. I have no doubt I'll receive personal attacks 4 posting my opinion on a public forum, again why I do not post more replies than I do, but it is my opinion sweety & I truly do wish U the best of luck in this matter. What we do, crossdressing, is not a dirty thing, it never has been & it never will B, however keeping it a secret & dropping it like fat man & little boy after the honey moon can only, as seen here more often than not B as devestating as hiroshima & furthermore do more to harm the TG community than help it I have no doubt!

Again, good luck sweety & please give my condolences 2 ur wife aswell.

Hugs,
Brianne

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Britney,

I don't have much to say really because I've never been in this situation or anything like it before. But there are a couple of things you said that worry me.

She has made comments like "I will not accept this, it is morally wrong" and "any women who accept this kind of behavior from their husbands, are just as messed up as the crossdresser himself"
Gosh, if someone...anyone.... truly thinks like this then (to me) the problem is a lot bigger than it first seems. It's not just about wearing clothes or wanting to feel feminine. Morally wrong? I think this is where we have to look for the solution, but the problem is, what people think is morally wrong is usually an opinion formed though years of experiences and influences. To change a person's moral viewpoint is not an easy thing to do and even if a person was able to do it, it wouldn't happen anytime soon.


"you don't see anything wrong here" She also thinks this is something that I have chosen to "indulge" in and therefore is a sin. "your a man" she kept repeating over and over.
A sin?...so there's a religious connotation going on here as well? Then we really do have a problem, because in my experience it's usually very difficult to get "unconstrained open dialogue" with another person if they already have a hidden agenda or restrict themselves from being open-minded to "unusual thinking" because of their beliefs.

That's not to say that a religious influence is going to give a negative spin on it, I have met plenty of people who were religious and were very "live and let live" in their attitude. What I'm saying is that there are other things going on in this whole thing that are going to influence things by putting either a positive or negative spin on the whole "open dialogue" thing.

I don't know what the answer is because I've never been with anyone who was so strong willed and had moral issues so important to them that they wouldn't even try to understand another human being's emotional standpoint.

[susandrea]

I just read through this thread and can only point out that this is just DAY 2.

Way too soon to make any kind of big decisions. Your wife is still in shock. Chances are she's going to confide in a friend or two, and what they say about it will probably make a huge difference on her attitude.

I also noticed that even after all she said and you stating that your marriage is the most important thing of all, you still took a massive risk by dressing while she was out. She could have easily gotten upset while out and taken a cab home. I'll leave it to others more experienced what that means, the chance you took, but in her state of mind it would be about as bad as if she caught you cheating yesterday, then came home and caught you yet again. Not twice as bad then, but ten times worse! Ouch!

I hope so much that in time you will be able to educate your wife about crossdressing and find a good therapist. It seems to me that if you two are on such different pages you will also need a good marriage counselor as well. Whenever one person has all the say in a marriage and compromise is out of the question, either trouble ensues or one person is going to spend the rest of their lives in an unfortunate mental state. The circumstances don't matter. One wins and the other loses.

Good luck. I wish the best for you.

[sally anne]

I know what you are feeling right now. My 1st wife went totally off the wall saying that me wearing women's clothes was a mental illness. She refused to talk about it or talk to a professional threapist. 2 weeks later she left me.
But after a few months I realized that I had to be true to myself and that dressing made me who I am.
My 2nd wife is cool with me dressing and helps me with my wigs and make up.
My heart is with you. Hope that everything turns out for the better.

[Star]

is her asking you to stop as unreasonable as you asking her to accept it? If you know you can't ...it might be the same for her....

[Stephenie]

Britney,

Not much I can say except that it seems that your living my life. I have been going thruogh the same things and hearing the same remarks. It has been like this for almost 6 months. She's still with me but it has not gotting better yet.

I'll say a prayer for you two.

Hugs

[Rainbow6562005]

Hi, Britney, one more time,

I have three short points to make, after reading your posts:

1) As painful as it may be to accept, reality is that you have no control over your wife's acceptance or rejection of you. It is entirely up to her whether she will tolerate her discomfort around your being a CDer. You can influence her, perhaps, by listening to her and sharing your feelings with her, but that is all you can do.

2) If you give up dressing to keep her from leaving you, you will destroy your relationship. Guaranteed.

3) If she leaves you because of your dressing, the pain of your loss will ease and vanish in time; if you give up your CDing, you will hurt forever.

Rainbow

[suchacutie]

Having read this thread with interest, it seems that we might have lost the initial point of it all.

There are really two issues here. CDing is one, and a significant one. The other is the shock of your wife not knowing who you are. The center of her life has just crumbled. I can't imagine someone taking that in stride!

Putting your crossdressing aside, it seems to me that you have a serious amount of work ahead of you to reassure your wife that there are no other surprises. At this point she is not sure she knows who you are. The man she married has momentarily disappeared.

Help her get over that shock and you might have a chance.

My best wishes go with you.

tina

[Sarahgurl371]

Brittney,
If your situation ends up like mine, cuz its seems where I was two years ago, with the exception that I told my wife. I believe that you have the oporrtunity for some real personal growth. I had my head down for years. Never looked up, Went to work, loved my wife, busted my ass to get the things in life that she wanted. I wasn't living, I was existing. I don't know what the future holds for you or me. I've learned that I want to be happy, and Live Life. Sometimes you get banged up along the way, thats just the bad stuff that makes the good stuff that much better.

My wife has said just about the same things as yours: "Thats not what a MAN does", "Its morally wrong", "I'm not a Lesbian", "I am disgusted by this (read YOU)". This hurts,it really does. It will leave mark. As someone else said, If you think you have guilt now, just wait. My situation has forced me to think about just about everything in life, I had time, Its been two years. And she is still stuck on "Thats not what a man does".

People are different, period. Some are christian, aome are not. Some are good people, others are not, Some are open minded, some are not. Some are Democrat, some are Republican, and some are not. Like I've recently told my wife during one of our converstions about us..."there is no right and wrong here, its only what is right or wrong for you".

You have to ask yourself some tough questions, and OBJECTIVELY look at all the posible answers. You need to ask yourself the same questions that she will inevitably ask you. My advice... Be honest with yourself. When we first went through this we went to marraige conselour. His question to me was , "what do you want in your life". He didn't say I was wrong or mentally ill, or whatever. He simply said, get to know yourself, decide whats important to you, and see if you can get that out of this marraige.

I took his advice, thought long and hard. I am a crossdresser, maybe transgendered. I am not offended by others "lifestyles". Because I am a CD I'm different than "normal guys". My wife needs to ask herself the same questions the conselour asked me. Maybe she needs a normal guy. Again, there is no right or wrong. I BELIEVE IN LOVE, AND HOPE. I am a moral person, I am a good person. I am a CD. And starting to take the attitude that some others have here. I am worthy of love, and if you don't like me, thats your problem not mine.

But I'm still with my wife after two years of dealing with this stuff. I've given control of my personal life to her. I've bent over backwards to compromise with her. I've abided by her rules, then she changes them. Now we're down to nothing. She doesn't want to see it, think about it, hear about it. She will be pissed because she is bed sleeping this morning and I am on "the computer" talking about this CD stuff and getting "sucked further into it". And I'll feel guilty about it, and apologize for the pain I've caused her today. Are you sensing any sarcsim here yet, cuz I'm starting to feel it.

Like you may marraige was the most important thing in my life. I've changed that. My happiness is the most important thing in my life. Cuz if I'm not happy myself, then how can I make amyone else happy? Then how can I / we have a happy fullfillng marraige where we both get what we need and want from each other and life.

Trough this process/journey, my thoughts about life have changed, become clear. Thats a good thing, but it takes time. Relax a bit, you've got two days in, I've got two years in. I know dressing probably calms you, but you may want to chill a bit. If she finds out, its probably the end.

peace babe

[DonnaT]

If your wife continues to throw "morality" and "sin" at you, you might point out:


Mt.7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Lk.6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged.

Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

James 4:12
"Who art thou that judgest another?"

Ask her not to judge you in such a manner, and to let God make all the judgements, as God sees fit.