Hormone Question....

[EmilyMI]

I have been on HRT (Oral) for about a year and a half, honestly I have been discouraged with the results so far and I am going to (hopefully soon) talk with my Doctor about either up'ing my dosage or possibly going over to injectibles. My question is with other girls experiences with Oral -vs- Injection and which one, from your experience, has been more beneficial? Thanks!

-Emily

[Joan_CD]

Are you on a T blocker? I am on a patch and my endo is now putting me on Provera to reduce my T levels.

[Frances]

I have only used patches and I am fairly happy with the results. Do you have regular blood tests? The androgens have to blocked sufficiently for the feminization to occur.

[EmilyMI]

I use Spiro (and also finasteride, which does some T-Blocking) and yes I have had blood tests which according to my Doctor is in the range to where I should be at with my Estrogen levels (cant remember the exact number right now) but honestly I have not seen any results except for some breast growth but other then that it has been discouraging to say the least.

-Emily

[Joan_CD]

I have only used patches and I am fairly happy with the results. Do you have regular blood tests? The androgens have to blocked sufficiently for the feminization to occur.

Hi France's,

I always thought that the androgens were blocked by T blockers such as spiro or provera and not just estrogen?

[Frances]

Hi France's,

I always thought that the androgens were blocked by T blockers such as spiro or provera and not just estrogen?

Yes, I meant that they have to be effectively blocked. This is verified by blood tests. The op did not mention T-blockers.

[Joan_CD]

Ahhhh that explains it. You are getting good results with just estrogen and no T blocker?

[Aprilrain]

I'm curious as to what it is you were expecting that has not happened? Also how old are you? everyone is different but usually the physical changes are subtle to nonexistent the later in life one starts HRT. I don't have any experience with injectables but in theory they should be somewhat more effective since they skip the first pass through the liver which breaks estradiol down into the less effective estrone, same with patches. Personally I'm quite pleased with the results I have gotten from pills which I dissolve under my tongue. In six months I have about an A cup and though subtle I can definitely see a difference in my face (though I couldn't tell you what it is exactly) It's not just me lots of people tell me how different I look. I'm also actually quite shocked at how quickly I have lost muscle mass in my arms!

[EmilyMI]

I know that HRT is not the 'magic pill' that will not change my over night into a female, I am not that naive. I am 40 years young right now (started my hormones at when I was mid 38 and I know that each person is different when it comes to the effects of HRT, but I think I should have seen more results then what I have so far been seeing (or lack of). I have not seen any changes to my face or softening of my skin/muscle loss. I know that my age is a concern for HRT but I know other girls who are a bit older then myself and their results and truly amazing (some have been on HRT less then me, but I know body chemistry is different for each person) so yes it is very frustrating for me right now and not sure what else I can do, if anything?

-Emily

[Aprilrain]

I would hardly call a year and a half overnight so I can understand why you're frustrated. I know of a young girl (young to me anyway!) 23? I think and she's been on HRT over 2 years and has almost no breast development, unfortunately it is a crap shoot : ( do you know what your T and E levels are? are they with in the norm for a female? if so I don't know that there is anything else you can do chemically. Your other options are surgical. FFS & BA. I'm really surprised about the muscle mass. I seem to have shed mine over night as you say. My wife makes fun of, and admonishes me "woman need muscle as they get older to support their bones!" YES DEAR.

[EmilyMI]

The most noticeable change about me so far is my breast growth (I use a breast binder for work and what not) but yes very little or no facial changes or mass reduction for me. I don't recall my numbers exactly from my last blood test but from what the Doctor said I was in the range that I needed to be in? I 'did' have FFS scheduled for Mid-August with Dr. Zukowski in Chicago but I had to reschedule since I was laid off. :sad:

[CharleneT]

HRT is not going to change your face very much. The hair will stay, pretty much unchanged. Bone structure is unchanged. Your facial skin may soften somewhat, but it is not going to be that noticeable. If you gain weight and some is in your face, it may be a little more feminine, but even with that the change is pretty small. Almost all the "changes" in your face will have to be "done" to it. I've been on HRT for 24 months and my weight has not changed a bit. My muscles are not as strong and my body shape is starting to change, via fat distributing in new ways.

[EmilyMI]

I am having laser and electrolysis sessions to take care of my facial hair which has helped, I know that my bone sctructure won't change from the HRT and my facial skin has really not been softened very much (if any at all?) which is why I opted to get FFS surgery when I am able to (decided to go with Dr. Zukowski in Chicago). Weight has really stayed the same and my body shape sadly has also stayed the same. I know that everyone is different and some girls are a lot more lucky then others when it comes to the effects of HRT but just wish that I could have been one of them. :sad:

-Emily

[Aprilrain]

my body shape sadly has also stayed the same. I know that everyone is different and some girls are a lot more lucky then others when it comes to the effects of HRT but just wish that I could have been one of them. :sad:

-Emily


I'm as straight as a pencil its just the breaks I accepted that I will never have hips nor am I willing to fake hips, butt or boobs (well accept for the padding that is built into the bras) focus on what you do have. For me thats LEGS and though I'm tall Im petite in frame no broad shoulders.

[EmilyMI]

I am not too tell, 5'-10" which is not terrible so at least I am lucky about that. I do have broad shoulders though which hinders my ability to pass successfully. I have been told that I have nice legs and should try to excentuate then more and show em off. For me it is just hard to really feel feminine and well pretty when I can't (or don't) see anything feminine about me.

-Emily

[Aprilrain]

I feel your pain Some days I look in the mirror and wonder "what's the point" which is why god invented FFS!

[Badtranny]

Emily, I'm 43 and started on the juice 11 months and 4 weeks ago.

Up until this month, I was taking measurements every month and the only difference (that wasn't attributable to weight loss) was breast growth. Some say my face has changed slightly, but hair removal will also change your face ever so slightly and I've been doing that for well over a year now. Some are indeed luckier than others.

Have you addressed these concerns with your doctor? We're not allowed to discuss dosages on this site but PM me and I will be glad to answer any questions that I can.

[EmilyMI]

I did go over my concerns with my Doctor but he would not increase my dosage since he said that I was in the range that I needed to be in and my Estrogen levels were where a GG Woman would be at. I know my T-Levels were high though but he said that the meds would do their work and 'eventually' my T-Lvl's would come down and just would take time? I am not sure on what kind of time-frame he was thinking but so far I have not seen a lot.

-Emily

[Aprilrain]

i just got my labs back and my E was at 102 pg/ml and T was at 18 ng/dl. the E is normal for a female and the T is low even for a female. I'm not complaining!

[EmilyMI]

I can't remember exactly what my numbers were but I know my E-Levels were around that range, but my T-Levels were a lot higher then yours /sigh.... So not sure what I can do to bring my T-Levels down more since I am already on T-Blockers?


-Emily

[Aprilrain]

different T- blockers? ..........

[Frances]

different T- blockers? ..........

Or higher dosages? I am on Androcur and started with the standard dose. After blood tests, my endo doubled it. Further blood tests confirmed the decision. Aside from blood results, there are other ways of guaging the effictiveness, such as sebum levels (oily skin and oily hair) and hirsutism.

[EmilyMI]

Is Androcur the same as Cyproterone?

-Emily

[Joan_CD]

My endo is putting me on Provera to block my T. Has anyone had experience or info on it as a T blocker?

[CharleneT]

Yes, Androcur is a brand of Cyproterone. It is the best of the anti-androgens. It is not available in the USA though. You can order it from foreign sources. It has an advantage in that as well as the anti-androgenic affect, it is also has a weak progesterone like action. Cyproterone acetate is a synthetic derivative of 17-hydroxyprogesterone. It is also used as part of some birth control pills, such as Diane-35. BUT taking Diane-35 for feminization is not recommended. That is due to two reasons, one it contains ethinylestradiol, which is not a good form of estrogen for transition, and in general Diane-35 is only intended to be taken for around 3 to 4 months - not long term.

[Amber99]

My endo is putting me on Provera to block my T. Has anyone had experience or info on it as a T blocker?

Same here but I'm only at 5 months so not a ton of experience to share lol. My endo explained to me that it doesn't actually simply block T like spiro or something, but it lowers your T levels by affect one of your glands(can't remember which) and basically just having your body produce it in female levels instead of male levels. This was a while ago so I may have details wrong but we did get my blood levels in female range.

[Joan_CD]

Same here but I'm only at 5 months so not a ton of experience to share lol. My endo explained to me that it doesn't actually simply block T like spiro or something, but it lowers your T levels by affect one of your glands(can't remember which) and basically just having your body produce it in female levels instead of male levels. This was a while ago so I may have details wrong but we did get my blood levels in female range.

Thanks Amber. How is your progress with it and any problematic side effects?

[CharleneT]

Provera was at one time a favorite drug to combine with Premarin. Often with Spiro, that was the std for HRT for femininization. Provera though has issues. It is what is often called a "dirty drug". Which does not mean it has contamination, but rather a range of side effects and drug interactions that make its use problematic. The now famous WHI study that caused so many GG's to stop HRT was a study of Premarin and Provera initially. Trying to relate those results to a male under going transition to female has not, unfortunately, been done. One thing is for sure though, Provera has been been implicated in higher breast cancer rates:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.20710/abstract;jsessionid=1959DE452AD3677DC79BBD04911559 7F.d02t03?systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+ be+disrupted+6+Aug+from+10-12+BST+for+monthly+maintenance

Sorry, that ref is pretty technical. But the gist is that micronized progesterone is likely safer than synthetic progesterone (progestins like Provera), when either is combined with estrogen therapy.

From the PDR (Physician's Desk Referernce):

Provera

May cause sudden or partial loss of vision; may contribute to thrombophlebitis, pulmonary embolism and cerebral thrombosis; may cause fluid retention, epilepsy, migraine, asthma, cardiac and renal dysfunction, breakthrough bleeding or menstrual irregularities and depression; may decrease glucose tolerance (warning for diabetics); may increase thrombotic disorders associated with estrogens, may cause breast tenderness, urticaria, pruritus, edema, rashes, acne, alopecia, hirsutism, weight changes, cervical erosions, cholestatic jaundice, mental depression, pyrexia, nausea, insomnia or somnolence. When taken with estrogens, may cause rise in blood pressure, headaches, dizziness, nervousness, fatigue, changes in sex drive, loss of scalp hair, PMS-like symptoms, urinary tract problems.

Now you'll find similarly spooky listings for many drugs. With Provera the main bad effects that occur are osteoporosis, depression and weight gain. In some ways the bone loss is the bigger worry because it has been known to continue after treatment has been terminated. Most of the studies about this are of Depo-Provera, which is the same drug as Provera, but given via an injection. You'll find it has a very controversial history.

[Joan_CD]

Wow. Thanks so much Charlene!

[EmilyMI]

Or higher dosages? I am on Androcur and started with the standard dose. After blood tests, my endo doubled it. Further blood tests confirmed the decision. Aside from blood results, there are other ways of guaging the effictiveness, such as sebum levels (oily skin and oily hair) and hirsutism.

Maybe we can chat a bit more about dosages out of the forums? Interested to hear more about what I am currently taking and what I could try to dicsuss with my Doctor about changing my meds/dosages? Please feel free to email me sometime. Thanks!

-Emily

[Amber99]

Thanks Amber. How is your progress with it and any problematic side effects?

No problems so far. I'm actually on a generic form of Provera, I doubt it makes any difference though. I'm also on estradiol patches. My skin has gotten softer and I have some minor breast development so far. I go back for my six month follow up next month.