Reply to Apple's questions

[carhill2mn]

Hi Apple,

Rather than reply to your questions about "being pretty", etc in the other thread,
I thought it better to starty a new thread.
Your post is below:

Hi. I'm a gg, spouse to a CD. I'm guessing - from things my husband has said - that this wanting to be pretty thing might apply to him too. And I note that someone said the first post should be "required reading" for SOs. But from my SO perspective, it doesn't "solve" the puzzle of why he (or anyone) is CD, it just begs more questions. E.g., Why do you want to be pretty? Is it an end unto itself OR is it a means to an end? I have difficult believing that being pretty is the end-goal (the source of happiness/pride). I suspect the desire to be pretty is the means by which to achieve something that pretty women (historically/traditionally) have had, which is some sort of power; whether that be the power to inspire lust, jealousy, etc. When you see a beautiful woman and you feel jealous, what is it exactly that you want of hers? Do you want her nose, her clothes, or do you want the power to make other people feel a particular way?

This relates to something I've asked on another forum, so I'll ask again here. For the hetero MTF CDers, when you see an attractive woman, what is the difference between finding her attractive b/c you want to look like her as opposed to finding her attractive because you fancy her (e.g., as a potential romantic/sexual partner)? I.e., can you tell the difference -- if there is one -- between an attractive woman you want to look like and one you'd like to have as your partner/girlfriend/wife?

Curiously,
Apple

I'll give my answers to your questions as best that I can. Others will certainly have other answers.

"Why do you want to look pretty"?
"Pretty" is a characteristic that has been idealized, even worshiped, for centuries by both men and women. It is, however, nearly always associated with the female. Thus, we as men who are trying to emulate women, want to look as pretty as we can. Obviously, "pretty" is not the same to everyone (thankfully)! Is it the "end goal"? No, but it is certainly an important objective for many of us.

"When you see a beautiful woman and you are jealous ...".
Am I "jealous"? Yes, to some degree, but mainly because I wish that I could be beautiful like she is. But, I am just as likely to be wishing that I could be wearing the clothes, shoes, accessories, etc. that she has. I truely enjoy seeing feminine beauty!

I think your question about do you want this beautiful woman as a "romantic/sexual partner" is likely to have a variety of answers. It depends upon many factors. Many can appreciate and "love" beautiful things with out having them as their own. Others certainly would like to "posses" them. Maybe, a brief passing "fantasy" is the result.

There are many very beautiful women that I probably would not want as a partner but whose beauty I can still enjoy.

[kimdl93]

I can't improve or add a great deal to Carole's response. But I will chime in. Its fair to say that I wish to emulate attractive women, women - who may be pretty or not - but still attractive. For example, I find Angelica Houston to be very attractive, if not pretty in a conventional sense. Is it an end in itself? I'm not entirely sure what might mean. If I feel attractive and put together, then I find it gratifying, even if I am by myself. And if I'm in public and elicit positive responses from the people I encounter, even if its just a smile, I find that gratifying as well. So the "end" may be how I feel about myself, really. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Cheryl T]

I think of it more this way....
If Apple spent time getting ready to go out somewhere and said to her spouse ... "how do I look?"...would she be content with "you look nice"?
Isn't there something in all of us that begs to hear we look "pretty" or "beautiful" or "gorgeous" or something of that nature when we go through all the trouble to get ready to go out. Do we love to hear .. "you look ok"... "you look good"....I don't think so. The narcissist in all of us wants to know that our efforts have produced results and that the results have been noticed.

I know it was a bit of a letdown one night when I dressed to go out with my spouse and I felt like being a bit sexy that night. I put on my lace bra and panties, garter belt and nylons and as she entered the bedroom she said.... "sexy lingerie". It's just not the same as saying "you look sexy in that lingerie".
An ego boost is what we all need once in a while.

[TGMarla]

Why do you want to be pretty? Is it an end unto itself OR is it a means to an end? I have difficult believing that being pretty is the end-goal (the source of happiness/pride). I suspect the desire to be pretty is the means by which to achieve something that pretty women (historically/traditionally) have had, which is some sort of power; whether that be the power to inspire lust, jealousy, etc. When you see a beautiful woman and you feel jealous, what is it exactly that you want of hers? Do you want her nose, her clothes, or do you want the power to make other people feel a particular way?

I'm glad you're asking these things. It shows that you are trying to understand. Many of us who CD are trying to understand also, and these discussions help us as much as it helps you. For me, there is also a great desire to be pretty. I never thought of it as a means to have power over others. It's more of a self-fulfillment and a state of being. For instance, I enjoy having long pretty hair, not because it will make others melt, but because it makes me feel good. I like wearing lovely clothing made of beautiful, soft fabrics not because I wish for any kind of power over others, but because I find it luxurious and it makes me happy. Do I want her nose and her clothes? Maybe....but it's a personal thing, not a power thing.


For the hetero MTF CDers, when you see an attractive woman, what is the difference between finding her attractive b/c you want to look like her as opposed to finding her attractive because you fancy her (e.g., as a potential romantic/sexual partner)? I.e., can you tell the difference -- if there is one -- between an attractive woman you want to look like and one you'd like to have as your partner/girlfriend/wife?

Ah, the old "Do her or be her" question. For me, it's a bit of both. I've often wished I'd have had the privilege and good fortune to have had the opportunity to make my way through this life as an attractive woman, rather than the man I am. Sometimes I feel like I lost the genetic crap-shoot. I am completely heterosexual, and I am very attracted to women. I do not find men attractive (sexually) in the least. So when I see a pretty woman, I am attracted to her sexually. But because I have my own desire to be pretty and wear feminine clothing, I also envy her that she is able to present herself to the world as a lovely woman, wear pretty clothes, wear her hair long and feminine, do her nails, wear nice jewelry, etc. It's a whole world, a way of being, that is denied to me as a man. Ladies get lace; boys get burlap. I'd rather have the lace. And although I'm heterosexual, I suspect that had I been a woman rather than a man, I'd still be heterosexual. I don't go in for that "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body" thing. If I'd grown up female, I'm sure things would be different. We're all subject to our upbringing and our hormones. And although I'm not ever going to opt for sex-change, I live with the thought of "what if?" every day.

[sometimes_miss]

To Apple; I don't remember the other thread, so I will reply here.
There is no way to 'solve the puzzle of why' someone is a crossdresser. There may be incidents in one's life which cause us to be this way, or it may be a genetically influenced behavior, or both. Or neither, but something else. It varies for each of us.
Feeling pretty is, for some of us, an end goal. For me, there's no sexual connection to the wearing of female clothes. I was brought up to believe I was supposed to be a girl; over many years, it became ingrained into me that was what I was; so, wearing male clothing just seems wrong, and I only feel 'normal' when dressed as a female. It has something to do with how our personalities develop and how some things become permanent within us.
Why the desire to be pretty; hmmmmm. As opposed to, say, ugly? I think that's a no-brainer, actually. But more to the point, why we want to feel pretty as opposed to handsome, such as when wearing a tuxedo.
For me it was a response to what happened to me as a kid. To start, my older sister got more attention (or seemed to in my eyes) when my mom did her hair, bought her more clothes and made a fuss over how nice she looked in them, as did my dad. Then my abuser would dress me up in his sister's clothes, he was my only friend, so I wanted to be what he wanted me to be, which was a pretty girl. I was always very lonely, and of course noted that pretty women always got plenty of attention, so being pretty was seen as a solution to that as well, even though it wouldn't work out that way. Interestingly enough, being pretty was an end to itself; I never connected sexual desire to being pretty. Of course as I got older, I realized that being a pretty woman would result in sexual attraction to males. But as I never felt that, it wasn't something that was on my mind.
And for me, there is no difference between a woman I'm attracted to, and that I also would like to look like her as well. Sorry if I'm rambling, but I'm getting tired.

[docrobbysherry]

"Why do you want to look pretty"?

There's no way of adequately explaining this! Looking in the mirror or at Sherry's pics and seeing someone I consider to be a stunning, sexy looking female absolutely blows my hair back! It's an excited feeling like a shot of adrenaline running thru my entire body! Followed by feelings of extreme satisfaction from my accomplishment and that my fem effort wasn't wasted!

"When you see a beautiful woman and you are jealous ...".

Why? Am I jealous at seeing a stunning sunset? An inspiring visual performance? A Wagner opera ? My daughter's smile? I appreciate beauty in it's many forms! Appreciation is NOT jealousy!

"I think your question about do you want this beautiful woman as a "romantic/sexual partner" is likely to have a variety of answers."

I believe if EVERY hetero male answered this honestly, they would say, " If I we were both single and there were NO complicating factors, any woman I found to be sexually attractive I would like to be with".

[Alice B]

I have to agree with almost everything said by the previous posts. Why I suddenly wanted to start dressing is a question that I will never have an answer to. It just happened and I accepted it. The hard part was telling my wife and getting her to also accept it within her personal level. And then for me to adapt to that. Do I want to feel and look pretty. Sure. Can I be beautiful? Never. I'm too old to think that is possible, but I'll accept pretty if that happens and it is comment that comes from others, not myself. The fact that you are here, asking the right questions and are willing to learn and try to accept puts you in a very special category and a very special person. I appalud you.

[NicoleScott]

For me, pretty is an end unto itself. I love the beautiful female image, whether presented to me by women, other cd's, or my mirror. I'm the guy looking at the woman in the mirror and hopefully liking what he sees. If not why not? What can I do to be prettier?
At this point, I should point out that pretty is defined differently for different folks. The guy in me wants to see (again in a gg, cd, or me) over-the-top glamour with emphasis on and exaggerating those thing that are purely feminine: makeup, legs, hair, eyelashes, nails, high heels, jewelry, lipstick, etc. Others define pretty differently, for example, some like the "natural" look.
The "do her or be her" question. When looking at models in a woman's clothing catalog, I often go through this mental exercise: pick one I would like to look like, and one I'd like to be in the sack with. Rule: can't pick the same one. And that makes it hard sometimes.

[StephanieC]

For me, I don't think in terms of "pretty". I think in terms of "well put together". And that's exactly what I think when I see an attractive woman: how well she looks...makeup, movement, dress, choice of style, facial mannerisms, composure. I think the expression is "all of that and a bag of chips". Sometimes, I'll think about the outfit and how I'd look in it. Sexual attraction is never a thought.