Something that really ticks me off

[Pythos]

For the umpteenth time I have read of one of our crew having to deal with a SO of some capacity acting for all intents and purposes like a tyrant.

I want to know why this is still happening. I want to know why members of our group keep folding to tyranical actions by these S.O.s.

I have read of these SOs throwing out a person's belongings, threatening divorce, NOT TALKING (a really stupid move) and so on.

I have also read of them members here for all intents and purposes FOLDING to this behavior. Why? Why do you fold when the person acting like this is supposedly someone that loves you through and through.

In the case of jobs and family members I can understand, though I think bucking that trend is a good idea, sometimes it just won't work. Which majorly sucks.

But when it comes to someone that you love with all your heart, and they should do the same, I don't understand the justification for the SO's irrational behavior.

Why is CDing so damned wrong? How in all reality does it really hurt a person? The only area of hurt is when someone starts insulting, and belittling.

I find it very ironic how there are marriages where the husband can be completely open about his affairs, or can beat the hell out of his wife, or completely control his wife's life, but by god, a person wants to wear styles that our stupid society has "assigned" to one gender, and that is grounds for divorce.

For crying out loud!!!

Women, do you not realize when you put a man down for wearing women's clothing you are in fact putting yourself down? You are reinforcing the notion that women are less than men. How? Because when you put a man down for wearing stuff that makes him look like a woman, you are implying that he is "lowering" himself to the level of a woman. Think about that.

In my opinion this is an outdated, and really messed up way to live life. Start loving the person for who they are, not what they are. Stop falling in love with the "man", and love the person or soul that resides in that "man" (the same go for us guys and "women")

[Karren H]

If they (including me) did not tell their SO before they became an item. Then the SO did not sign up for this and has all the rights in the world to react any way they want to... Imho. I would not blame my wife for kicking me to the curb for not telling her. Even though I did not have the guts to tell her I was a pervert!!!

[Kittykitty]

Pythos, while I agree with your passions regarding this, it is a complex issue from person to person.

Often the CD/TS/TG in question has built their own wall of shame and hiding over a prolonged period of time. Often our attitudes regarding what we expect someone's reaction to be, shape their actual reaction subconsciously. If the TG acted openly and unashamed, this attitude would transfer as well. Being that the discussion is regarding reactions over "reveals," obviously it is a hidden aspect to the TG's personality and life, something they have hidden for SOME reason.

Is it possible that some TG's may subconsciously seek mates who's personalities consist of transphobic aspects? Much like a woman who has been beaten will often seek the next mate who will beat her as well. If someone is so in the closet pre-marriage that they may themselves put down LGBT people to cover for their own deep closeted feelings, perhaps they sought a mate that did the same thing?

The reaction isn't necessarily a surprise because the TG was well aware of the wife's attitudes. It doesn't make it right, but to some extent it may be a subconsciously self-inflicted wound.

[NicoleScott]

Yes, it doesn't make sense for wives to tolerate acts that are truly harmful (physical abuse, financial control, etc.) but are intolerant of a husband crossdressing, even in private.
Even though it's a serious matter, I always have to chuckle a bit when I hear of a woman putting a husband out (packed bags on the front porch). It's MY house, too. What gives you the right? Of course, you are free to leave if you don't like it here.

[Briana90802]

Pythos I totally agree with you. It's as if our SO know that we are vulnerable in this one area and exploit it. What gets me is the whole selfish behavior thing. If a two women are friends and one has a problem you know the othe would be extremely supportive. Why do our SO(who aren't supportive) tend only to think of themselves. It becomes what happens to ME if someone finds out? Or what will people think of ME if they see you? And other selfish crap like that.

Can't we all just get along?

[Katesback]

From a womans perspective when they marry a man that is what they assum a man to be. They want a man that acts like a man all the time. When they find out about the crossdressing as we see in the posts it is not so bad until later. See the problem with many crossdressers is that they walk a tightrope about wanting to be themselves and caving to the expectations of society. As time goes by (after she finds out) the crossdressing in many marriages escalates to the point that the wife is fed up with it. She had no idea that it was going to go from occasional to often, she had no idea that it was going to go to the bed, she had no idea that large sums of money was going to be spent on clothing and stuff that from her eyes is pointless, she had no idea that the crossdressing was going to be an integral aspect of her marriages sexuality, she had no idea she was going to have a new girlfriend, she had no idea that it was going to be thrust upon her, she had no idea that her husband was going to dress up like a girl and have sex with men and other crossdressers (many do this), she had no idea that she was going to be asked over and over again to participate in the activities.

It is no wonder that the wifes gets fed up with it. IT IS NOT WHAT SHE said "I do" for!!!!!!!!! Wether you like it or not thats the facts. How dare you say it is wrong for a woman to be upset when she finds out about her husband's atypical behavior? How dare you diss her for being upset when she comes to realize that she is not married to a man but actually a TS that is not willing to admit it (because we all know that if you did it would be the kiss of death to the marriage). How dare you?

Finally based on the fact that the vast majority of crossdressers hide in the closet their very own behavior exibits shame. If they were proud of what they do they would not hide. Why would a woman or anyone else support and respect the behavior of crossdressers if they themselves hide thier activities? REally!

[RADER]

Karren:
I thought you where an Engineer, Now you say you clanged into a Pervert?
Did you take classes for this new degree?? LOL
Pythos has a point.
I do believe that some SO go overboard on their refusal to accept their Husband/boyfriend
cross dressing desires. They could at least listen to their love ones on the subject; That is IF they still
love them as before they knew. Maybe their are afraid of embarrassment might come their way.
But that is because my wife is accepting, and now I am spoiled.
Rader

[Pythos]

Let me be clear on this.

This thread is not a "bash the GGs" thread.

It is a thread to get to the heart of the matter and that is the irrational behavior. Even in the case of a TG person hiding this aspect of themselves, the irrational behavior of some of these SOs, is still in my book unwarranted. Especially now a days. When someone gets married, there are many many things the person did not "sign up for", and NO it is not within their "rights" to throw the other person out, when it comes to what is really a harmless activity. The person does not have any right to throw the other's stuff out either.

Why is this behavior in any way justifiable? That is my question really.

Katesback. Your response was nice, until the second paragraph. Why are you saying "how dare you". I dare because this is a serious matter. This is also a very sad matter. I am reading of heartbreak here.

Finally based on the fact that the vast majority of crossdressers hide in the closet their very own behavior exhibits shame WELL YEA!!! But why do you think some act like it is shameful to crossdress? I hide from my family and aviation because a) I don't like dealing with my mother's irrational behavior, and b) right now, being tg is still considered a mental deficiency by the psychiatry profession. Many cds hide because of the fear of irrational behavior on behalf of those they should trust implicitly.

Please don't get mad at me for asking questions. For wanting answers as to why such behavior is justified. Katesback, the answers you gave work, to an extent. I just wish you did not go off on me in the manner you did in the second paragraph.

[Katesback]

Harmless activity? Have you been to Southern Comfort? I have litereally seen people pull up to the four day event with trailers of crap! I am sorry but some spend so much money on the activity that it is not harmless. Why does someone need 30 pairs of heels when they never leave the house wearing them? Or how about all the sex that happens at these conferences. I have literally talked to crossdressers that say it is not cheating because they are a girl at the conference (meaning they are a different person). The tranny chasers at the conferences get as much sex as they want! Many of these people take the idea of being a woman to the greatest extent possible. Really.



Let me be clear on this.

This thread is not a "bash the GGs" thread.

It is a thread to get to the heart of the matter and that is the irrational behavior. Even in the case of a TG person hiding this aspect of themselves, the irrational behavior of some of these SOs, is still in my book unwarranted. Especially now a days. When someone gets married, there are many many things the person did not "sign up for", and NO it is not within their "rights" to throw the other person out, when it comes to what is really a harmless activity. The person does not have any right to throw the other's stuff out either.

Why is this behavior in any way justifiable? That is my question really.

[Karren H]

Karren:
I thought you where an Engineer, Now you say you clanged into a Pervert?
Did you take classes for this new degree?? LOL


PV 101. Theory and Fundamental....
PV 102... What not supposed to wear......

I had enough extra credits to get a second degree! :D

[Sandra]

What gets me is the whole selfish behavior thing. If a two women are friends and one has a problem you know the othe would be extremely supportive. Why do our SO(who aren't supportive) tend only to think of themselves. It becomes what happens to ME if someone finds out? Or what will people think of ME if they see you? And other selfish crap like that.



Oh and I suppose it doesn't matter that the cder has been selfish and only thinking of themselves, for maybe years but when the SO has difficulty then it's all their fault.

I get so pissed off at comment like this again putting the blame on the SO.

[Gillian Gigs]

If this thread is to "bash" anything, it should be bashing these poor behaviors and then telling people to grow up and be an adult. Most of what I am reading is a result of immature behavior plain and simple. The old, if I don't get it my way I will take my ball and bat and go home, or I will sit in the corner and pout until I get my way, should have been grown out of us a long long time ago. This is childish behavior at best, and we are all supposed to be adults now. Adults talk, reason things out, and compromise, based on our communication. A marrige is a union of two people, both need to grow up and be mature. Most of us were little boys once, and now we want to be little girls. Just look at the threads about what color, or style are your panties as an example. Grow up and be a lady, be someone of distinction, and make the world a better place.

[kendra_gurl]

Why do our SO(who aren't supportive) tend only to think of themselves. It becomes what happens to ME if someone finds out? Or what will people think of ME if they see you? And other selfish crap like that.



selfish or not those questions are real to them and if we seek their acceptance and support we have to give them the same thing.

Some may say crossdressing is victim less and harmless but it does have an effect on everyone who knows

Pythos: I can understand your logic since you are single. Married couples from time to time do some really stupid things to eachother after weeks, months or years of built up tension about what their SO is doing or saying about a lot of issues. Usually after a cooling off period the makeup makes it all worth while

With all the reasons couples use to give up on their relationship creating a hardship for both themselves and their children and families is it really that difficult to understand why asking a wife to accept and tolorate something that most of us still feel the need to hide from everyone else could lead her to view US as the selfish ones?

I really doubt that those stories you hear about where everything was packed up and on the front porch was caused by a CD who cares as much about his wifes feeling than his own

In a relationship there are always limits and boundries for both and when one exceeds those the other is always gonna blow a gasket for a little while. That is just married life.

[wanagione]

Wow, First Karren why did you call yourself a Pervert? Do you really think that? I hope not. Well, I can see both sides of this. I didn't tell my wife until about 6 years ago. She was really angery and I could understand why. Alot of what Kate said is true. My wife, after alot of talking, has excepted my identification as tg, but I have assured her that I will not transition. IT IS ALOT TO HANDLE for her. I think its the individual SO. I don't agree with the violence or the threats that is not a loving relationship and it really should not be tolerated. If a woman was treated that way by a man she would be out of there and have the law on her side. So I guess the question is , is it worth it to stay in that kind of relationship at all?

[Nigella]

How the devil can you judge how anyone should react in any given situation? To the best of my knowledge you are not ominipotent (sp), you only read what any OP wants you to read, that is a biased story, from the view of one person living the situation. Very rarely do we get to hear from the other person in the situation. In 99.99%of cases this is not the start of any troubles in a relationship, it may be the straw to break a camels back.

For any member here, think before you judge others, are you really qualified to judge someone else, based on a biased few sentences, from someone who IMHO is throwing their dummy out the pram because things are not going their way. Only a person who has lived in this exact situation can offer anything close to an opinion.

[Pythos]

I fully agree, when there are "trailers of crap" or just huge amounts of clothing I can understand. But you know what? I also understand a husband being pissed off at his wife when she spends gobs of money on huge amounts of clothing with items whe will probably only wear once.

with that example we are dealing with a general problem and that is the shopoholic syndrome which some CDs and women seem to suffer.

I don't get the whole "by a dress to wear once" kind of thing. Or the having 100 of pair of shoes, and that sort of non sense. That too is an irational behavior, and is harmful. But CDers are not the only guilty party in that aspect.

When I say a harmless activity, I am talking about the act of someone putting on styles and looks that do not pertain to their birth sex. That's it. I am not talking about the extraneous spending, or selfish behavior.

I am not a supporter of a CD acting selfishly. Believe me, I find those types very harmful to the integrity of our community.


Harmless activity? Have you been to Southern Comfort? I have litereally seen people pull up to the four day event with trailers of crap! I am sorry but some spend so much money on the activity that it is not harmless. Why does someone need 30 pairs of heels when they never leave the house wearing them? Or how about all the sex that happens at these conferences. I have literally talked to crossdressers that say it is not cheating because they are a girl at the conference (meaning they are a different person). The tranny chasers at the conferences get as much sex as they want! Many of these people take the idea of being a woman to the greatest extent possible. Really.

All of the above, I would put in the EXTREMELY HARMFUL category by the way. Especially the justification for cheating.

[Briana90802]

Oh and I suppose it doesn't matter that the cder has been selfish and only thinking of themselves, for maybe years but when the SO has difficulty then it's all their fault.

I get so pissed off at comment like this again putting the blame on the SO.

I can't speak for every CDer but is it self to be gay? Gay men and women sometimes hide themselves because they fear thier loved ones reaction, or loosing that loved one. We hide not only for the same reason but also because of ridicule form society. The one person we love the most and we feel we can open up to sometimes becomes part of that society that we fear so much. At a time when we need love, support and understanding and most importantly friendship, we get nothing.

[Katesback]

The big problem is that nearly all CDs hide and so they perpetuate the negative views of thier behaviors. If they were to come out of the closet and live thier lives as they wish with pride and self respect crossdressing in time would be seen less negative. Basically it is the same story with the gay community but they over time rose up and did go out into the world and today they are seen far less unfavorably than in the past. I myself have rarely ever seen a CD out in the real world so I dont see any changes in the forseeable future.

Its really humerous because I see crossdressers lamenting often about how they are treated but they do NOTHING to stand up and improve thier standing in society. Go figure.

[Pythos]

The big problem is that nearly all CDs hide and so they perpetuate the negative views of thier behaviors. If they were to come out of the closet and live thier lives as they wish with pride and self respect crossdressing in time would be seen less negative

OH great maker Katesback!! Did two worlds collide somewhere.

You and I have a common gripe. The hiding!! and the thinking that if we did not hide Cding would not be such an issue. HAZZAH!!! I completely and utterly agree with what you say. Now the question is, how do we go about it? :)

[docrobbysherry]

Dee ta da, doh dee ta da, doh dee ta da, doh deee! (Elevator music here!)


Harmless activity? Have you been to Southern Comfort? I have litereally seen people pull up to the four day event with trailers of crap! I am sorry but some spend so much money on the activity that it is not harmless. Why does someone need 30 pairs of heels when they never leave the house wearing them? Or how about all the sex that happens at these conferences. I have literally talked to crossdressers that say it is not cheating because they are a girl at the conference (meaning they are a different person). The tranny chasers at the conferences get as much sex as they want! Many of these people take the idea of being a woman to the greatest extent possible. Really.

Maybe I'm naive, Kate. And, I've only been to the last 2 SCC's. While I'm aware that some CD's tell their SO's they're at a " business convention" in Atlanta, I've seen NONE of the hooking up u describe. I can't even remember talking with attendees that were not straight! Of course, maybe you'd say I just haven't been hit on?:straightface:

I WILL say that some of the girls DO check in with many huge bags of luggage! And, I myself CAN'T EXPLAIN why I need over 50 pairs of heels and boots!:o

[wanagione]

Kate, I agree with everything you said. If we would bet out and not be afraid, things would change. The Gay and Lesbian cummunity have great PR and a stong voice. That is what we need too.

[pinto]

Although it's a real shame but I think Katesback is right. CD'ers get up and present yourself and be proud of that what you are. I know it's hard and I am also scared about outing myself - but still she is right. If all CD'ers would be selfconscious enough and don't care about what other people think about them the situation would be different. I am quite sure it would lead to that point that many many more would like to join them. CD'ers get up and arise!!!

[Katesback]

When you go to SCC this year sit in the lounge downstairs. Watch all the tranny chasers and the trans people. Sit there for a while and you will see them going to the elevators and comming back later. You said that you many say they are straight. Well sure they are straight when they are a boy but when they are a girl they often do things they otherwise would not. As I said earlier many see themselves as a different person, a woman. I swear it is shocking how many refer to thier ass as thier vagina. And these are straight CDs. LOL. Go figure.




Aren't u the one who CONSTANTLY laments here, about being walked all over by "the GG"? Even to the extent that when her married boyfriend has had enuff of her, all she has to do is crook her finger at u and you'll come running to serve her EVERY REQUEST!?:eek:

And now u can't understand why someone who u see everyday, socialize with, sleep with, and share your entire life with can command that kind of respect over their partner?:brolleyes:

If u REALLY wish to understand, just read your old posts!:heehee:



Maybe I'm naive, Kate. And, I've only been to the last 2 SCC's. While I'm aware that some CD's tell their SO's they're at a " business convention" in Atlanta, I've seen NONE of the hooking up u describe. I can't even remember talking with attendees that were not straight! Of course, maybe you'd say I just haven't been hit on?:straightface:

I WILL say that some of the girls DO check in with many huge bags of luggage! And, I myself CAN'T EXPLAIN why I need over 50 pairs of heels and boots!:o

[Pythos]

Doc, I tried to PM you this, but your mailbox is full.

Your bringing up the GG and my past actions seems to suffer from a bit of ignorance.

You may not have read, or I may not have posted.

She came to me for more help.

I told her in no uncertain terms to Sod off. She is no longer a part of my life. I have cut her off.

So a mere crook of her finger will not be enough to get me to "run back to her". It will take MUCH more than that, and I certainly will not run back to her.

Recall, I was very open to her about my cding, I hid nothing from her, and she liked my creative side. She did not like my hiding from my mother, which I perfectly understood.

I would appreciate it if you would remove that reference to the GG you put in my thread.

[kendra_gurl]

If I were gay and I came out everyone would think it only natural for me to be seen with another gay male in public. Since I am a str8 CD how is my comming out to anyone other than my wife going to help her with her feelings about what others perceive about us both?

Katesback: what you said in all the "she had no idea" quotes rings very true. While it may not be the marjority of those who actually post on this site it is very true that sexual hook ups are very common with the crossdressing community who do go out in public. My wife knows that is not what I am looking for. We both enjoy researching about other couples with CD husbands and also enjoy reading erotica involving crossdressing to enhance our times when we do go out. It is very difficult to find anything written that does not eventually lead to the CD "servicing" another male to simulate becomming a real woman.

To everyone here just put yourself in your SO's shoes for 10 minutes. She wants to find out more about her CD husband so she gets on Google and types "Crossdressing" or "Crossdressing Husband". Try that and see what she would find. Is it any wonder why she would not be more worried than more accepting?

[ReineD]

You've read of all these SOs doing all these horrible things. Do you know all the circumstances? All the details? Whether or not there are other issues in the marriage perhaps due to the secrecy? Do you know everyone's backgrounds? Their ages? The dynamics between the couple? Whether or not she has been, or she feels cheated on?

And are you taking into account all the SOs who are willing to work it out? All those who are supportive?

Please. Just walk a mile in their shoes before you make judgments. And stop painting with a broad brush. The issue is more complex than that.

And you be in a relationship with a GG after having misrepresented yourself for awhile, and then post your thoughts.

[jessica renee]

Thank you, Pythos, for saying what has been on my mind for a long time. Also, if society didn't make CDing out to be some sort of perversion, maybe we wouldn't feel like we had to hide.

[Pythos]

ReineD.

Um....your post is an attack, but I don't see what you are attacking. Why are there so many of these responses pointing out my lack of knownledge, and still others basically asking how I can even ask about what I don't fully understand.

That is why I made this post. To get an understanding about this. I have painted no one with a broad brush. I am addressing those SOs that react in what in my eyes is a wholly irrational way. Throwing out someone's belongings, NOT TALKING, is irrational. No improvement will happen if there is no communication.

The SOs that are willing to work things out ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. It is the ones that cannot or will not work things out and do things like threaten divorce.

You also seem to forget, I was in a relationship, where I was open. The reasoning for things not working out had nothing to do with my cding, it had everything to do with a married man with two kids being more appealing. I have come to terms with that. I am a loser. I know this. I am about as attractive as a brown patch of liquid on a sofa. I am fine with this. (those last lines were fully tounge in cheek).

I have said before and I will continue to say. The situation is complex only because it is made more complex than it need be.

Also, no. I do not know of all the circumstances. I am indeed only getting a one sided explanation of what is happening. I would like to have a better understanding, but can only work with what I have seen.

You have seen me get on the case of those that choose to hide from someone they are suposed to love implicitly. I have said many many times hiding does more damage, than help. I have gotten told off for holding that view by some here.


Thank you, Pythos, for saying what has been on my mind for a long time. Also, if society didn't make CDing out to be some sort of perversion, maybe we wouldn't feel like we had to hide

This line says a huge amount in just a few words. This explains very well the reason why so many hide. Even if I don't agree with it, I can certainly understand the rational.

[Stephenie S]

Pythos, you are 100% correct in your complaints. But you are ignoring reality.

Try to put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. You fall for a beautiful girl (just imagine, OK?), you hook up, it gets serious, you enter a committed relationship (marriage), and then you discover she wants to present as a man. WTF? A man? Yup, a man. She wants to pad her shoulders, wear lifts in her shoes, pad her crotch area to resemble a male organ, cut her beautiful hair or wear a male wig, wear a suit and tie, darken her face to resemble a beard, spit and fart and tell dirty jokes. AND she wants you to help her dress up, go out to clubs, and then have sex with you while she is dressed like a guy.

OK, are you ready for this? Might you have some reservations? After all, you should love her for what she is. Why might you have some questions? Why might you ask that she only does this at home? Why might you say only once a month? Do you know how much a nice men's suit costs? She wants several of them. This is gonna cost some serious dough. I think there are many guys here on this forum who would consider this behavior on the part of their SO a deal breaker.

All I am trying to say is that this is not such a cut and dried situation as you seem to think. Yes. People should be able to wear what they want. Yes, people should be able to present in whatever gender they wish. But that ignores thousands of years of conditioning of just what male and female behavior has taught us.

And it ignores some real and perhaps imagined fears on the part of the woman in this relationship.

Jes' sayin',

Stephie

[Pythos]

LOL, you know, if my "girl" wanted to present as a male, I would have little issue knowing that the girl I love is still there. The big question is if she would balk at my wanting to present as a female. Now if she did, then she would be a hypocrite, and that to me would be a deal killer.

What you present Stepenie is a very extreme example, but I see what you tried.

[ReineD]

When you go to SCC this year sit in the lounge downstairs. Watch all the tranny chasers and the trans people. Sit there for a while and you will see them going to the elevators and comming back later.

Kate, what is the percentage of the people you see going up to their rooms with guys, compared to the total registration? Maybe 10%? And how many of those are gay or single? I agree with Doc and I think you are overstating.

There may well be some married CDs who do this and it is likely these are the CDs who find themselves with their clothes strewn all over the lawn. But, what about all the CDs who are there with their wives's blessings? All the CDs who dress without wanting to have sex with men?




Pythos. My post is not an attack. It is a clear dose of reality. Sorry you don't like to read it. And your OP most definitely came off as a broad brush statement. Read it again and take particular note of your use of the word "irrational", without at all knowing the particulars of any given situation.

And also, stop stereotyping.

[Katesback]

I did not say all. I said many. And yes MANY do do all sorts of things they dont do when they are presenting as a boy.


Kate, what is the percentage of the people you see going up to their rooms with guys, compared to the total registration? Maybe 10%? And how many of those are gay or single? I agree with Doc and I think you are overstating.

There may well be some married CDs who do this and it is likely these are the CDs who find themselves with their clothes strewn all over the lawn. But, what about all the CDs who are there with their wives's blessings? All the CDs who dress without wanting to have sex with men?




Pythos. My post is not an attack. It is a clear dose of reality. Sorry you don't like to read it. And your OP most definitely came off as a broad brush statement.

[sara_s26]

Even though I like to think of myself as a very understanding and loving SO..I can see where people in other situations would be very angry and upset about the lying and sneaking that often goes along with crossdressing. I was with my boyfriend for a year before he told me what was going on and I find myself struggling with trusting him from time to time. I can't imagine what it must be like for someone married many years. So do I understand the anger? Yes. Do I understand not being able to accept that your boyfriend/husband is someone other than who you thought they were? Yes. However, being ugly about it..fighting..throwing insults and being hateful is not something I could ever bring myself to be part of. Hell, my ex husband cheated and I left him and even then I didn't bring myself to that level.

[Fundy]

LOL, you know, if my "girl" wanted to present as a male, I would have little issue knowing that the girl I love is still there.

Be careful. Before experiencing my current reality, I would have said the same. It's often hard to know how we will react until we are in the moment. I love my husband and I am working hard to support him and at the same time acknowledge my own boundaries. You also mention the irrationality of the reaction. YES! The shock I have had is that in my rational being, I have absolutely no problem with this. My negative reactions aren't rational, they're emotional and yet still valid.

[kimdl93]

Wow, Pythos, you're on a roll today ;) I actually agree with you on several points. There's NOTHING wrong with cross dressing. Its not a crime, we hurt no one. Even if every worst fear of an SO was realized, i.e., my husband is gay, he wants to be a woman, all our friends found out and reject us, etc, etc, etc. the consequences are survivable - it isn't terminal I also understand that a woman can be shocked and dismayed at the discovery that her spouse is a CD. And I understand that for certain people, CDing and all transgender manifestations are in some way morally abhorent.

And I agree that, no matter how shocking, no matter how much fear or apprehension such a discovery may cause, it doesn't justify anyone mistreating their spouse. The problem is that many, if not most married couples have never really learned to communicate humanely. Human couples tend to square off immediately, establish rigid positions and abhor reasonable compromises. Evidence - 50+% of first marriages fail and 75% of second and third marriages fail. We're just not that good at caring for our relationships.

The problem for a CDr who didn't tell before they were married is that they face the combined challenges of explaining themselves and thier preferences and doing it with fearful and defensive SO. That takes more skill than most of us can muster.

[Karren H]

Wow, First Karren why did you call yourself a Pervert? Do you really think that? I hope not.

At the time I should have told my wife the truth... Yes... I thought that... Its why I didn't tell... And for many years following I still thought that.... till I came to grips with who I am... So now I can call myself a pervert.... Affectionately.... More like a recovering pervert! Lol.

[Nigella]

Wow, Pythos, you're on a roll today ;) ... I actually agree with you on several points. There's NOTHING wrong with cross dressing. Its not a crime, we hurt no one. Even if every worst fear of an SO was realized, i.e., my husband is gay, he wants to be a woman, all our friends found out and reject us, etc, etc, etc. the consequences are survivable - it isn't terminal ...


Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Lets see

There's NOTHING wrong with cross dressing. Its not a crime, we hurt no one. Even if every worst fear of mine was realized, i.e., my family won't understand, I want to be a woman, all my friends found out and reject me, my work mates will laugh at me etc, etc, etc. the consequences are survivable - it isn't terminal.

Anyone see a parallel here ?

[kimdl93]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Lets see

There's NOTHING wrong with cross dressing. Its not a crime, we hurt no one. Even if every worst fear of mine was realized, i.e., my family won't understand, I want to be a woman, all my friends found out and reject me, my work mates will laugh at me etc, etc, etc. the consequences are survivable - it isn't terminal.

Anyone see a parallel here ?

Yes, bad things can happen if certain people learn that one is a cross dresser. Here in Texas, bad things can also happen, socially and professionally if certain people find out that one is a liberal. Friends and family may ostracize a person for a variety of reasons - none of which are criminal. As the expression goes - bad things can and often do happen to good people.

But that wasn't really my point, was it. One point was that nothing intrinsic to cross dressing justifies abusive treatment by a spouse. And my second point was that, people often handle interpersonal disputes in destructive and hurtful ways.

[ReineD]

We are talking about two completely different things in this thread, and one does not contradict the other.

1. There is nothing wrong with CDing. This is true.

2. Some wives are not OK with it. This is also true. But, is it strictly the CDing they are against?


Back to (1). There is nothing wrong with the CDing, providing there is openness and honesty in the relationship. And compromise. And balance. Providing it wasn't hidden for years. Providing the husband doesn't get lost in the fantasy of cyber sex, even if he would never do it with a guy in person. Providing he doesn't go overboard in a pink fog and get mad at his wife because it will take her awhile to learn about this and understand. Providing she doesn't keep finding profile pages on internet sites when she has no clue what it all means. Providing he's not springing this on her, at the age of 50, 55, 60, 65, or 70, when she was raised with the belief that it is morally wrong to do this.

(2) The wife is NOT to be called "irrational" if she encounters the situations above. When CDs post here about their wives not wanting to know anything about the CDing, are they telling all? Do their wives fit in any of the scenarios above? If so, they are certainly not irrational.

Show me a young CDer who shares this with his SO right off the bat, and show me when does she take all his clothes and strew them across the lawn. Show me a CDer in his 40s who doesn't already have a well-developed femme persona with tons of friends, dozens or hundreds of secret outings under his belt, plus other issues in his marriage due to all this secrecy, and prove to me that his wife won't be willing to talk to him about this.

If there are a handful of women who do react violently and threaten ruin such as Pythos suggests, then they are in the minority and their behavior shouldn't be considered "the norm" such as was presented in the OP. And again, how old are these women? How long have they been married without having any clue about this? What are their religious beliefs? And why are these women not allowed to reject the CDing, when it obviously took their husbands 20, 30, or 40 years to accept it enough within themselves to even tell their wives?

The whole premise in this thread is BS, and yes, I am impatient reading about fictitious, one-sided scenarios.

[Shelly Preston]

For the umpteenth time I have read of one of our crew having to deal with a SO of some capacity acting for all intents and purposes like a tyrant.

I want to know why this is still happening. I want to know why members of our group keep folding to tyranical actions by these S.O.s.

I have read of these SOs throwing out a person's belongings, threatening divorce, NOT TALKING (a really stupid move) and so on.

I have also read of them members here for all intents and purposes FOLDING to this behavior. Why? Why do you fold when the person acting like this is supposedly someone that loves you through and through.

In the case of jobs and family members I can understand, though I think bucking that trend is a good idea, sometimes it just won't work. Which majorly sucks.

But when it comes to someone that you love with all your heart, and they should do the same, I don't understand the justification for the SO's irrational behavior.

Why is CDing so damned wrong? How in all reality does it really hurt a person? The only area of hurt is when someone starts insulting, and belittling.

I find it very ironic how there are marriages where the husband can be completely open about his affairs, or can beat the hell out of his wife, or completely control his wife's life, but by god, a person wants to wear styles that our stupid society has "assigned" to one gender, and that is grounds for divorce.

For crying out loud!!!

Women, do you not realize when you put a man down for wearing women's clothing you are in fact putting yourself down? You are reinforcing the notion that women are less than men. How? Because when you put a man down for wearing stuff that makes him look like a woman, you are implying that he is "lowering" himself to the level of a woman. Think about that.

In my opinion this is an outdated, and really messed up way to live life. Start loving the person for who they are, not what they are. Stop falling in love with the "man", and love the person or soul that resides in that "man" (the same go for us guys and "women")

I have to say in every relationship there will be things that will cause the relationship to break up
The one we hear most about is crossdressing for obvious reasons. We also cant make anyone accept our crossdressing. Just because we are not doing anything wrong it does not mean everyone will understand.

Some SO's will not be happy and choose to ask their partner to leave. This is not new we know this which is why how you tell your partner can be crucial.
Are they justified in doing this I would have to yes. In some cases the deceit and betrayal was over a lot of years

I am afraid this is not utopia and unconditional acceptance is not a right

[LilSissyStevie]

Let's forget all this gender related crap and look at a different example. Let's say you married a nice atheist girl and one day your wife comes home and invites you to her baptism at the local Southern Baptist church. WTF!!! You didn't sign up for this! It turns out that she had vague doubts about her atheist convictions even before you met her but never shared them with you because she was afraid you wouldn't understand and didn't want to alienate you unnecessarily. Now this is going to change your whole life together. All your prejudices, true or not, about Southern Baptists flood your mind. No more dancing! No card playing! Sex for procreation only! No make-up, alcohol, movies or Jazz! (all true when my mother was young, SB's have gone over to the devil since then.:devil:) So, what do you do?

You could throw fits and demand she burn her bible and stop associating with Christians. Or, you could have a “don't ask, don't tell” arrangement where she goes about her religious activities but you never talk about it. You could argue endlessly without resolution. You could go to church with her just to humor her even though you don't believe any of that stuff. You could convert. You could go to counseling (religious or secular?) or you could go your separate ways.

It could be something else like you married a radical libertarian and you find out your SO has secretly gone over to the demublicans or the repubicrats and now wants to hang portraits of Hillary Rumsfeld or President Bushbama in the living room. Oh, the humanity!:eek:

People change. I am no longer the person my wife married 16 years ago and she isn't the woman I married either. Not only do people change, but they aren't always who we thought they were. We aren't always who we think we are. But I don't try to change my wife or try to keep her from changing. I don't insist she be who I thought she was. I just ask myself, “In spite of everything, do I still want to be here?” She must ask herself the same thing and as long as both of us answer “yes” then the relationship can move forward. The day either one of us doesn't want to continue, it's over. Yeah, there will be grief, anger, regrets and blame but it will pass and I signed up for that possibility when I said, “I do.”

[ReineD]

I did not say all. I said many. And yes MANY do do all sorts of things they dont do when they are presenting as a boy.

Go back to my post #31 and read your words that I've quoted. You did say "all". And please stop taking your observations of the few and make it sound as if everyone or most everyone else does this.

[Amanda22]

People change. I am no longer the person my wife married 16 years ago and she isn't the woman I married either. Not only do people change, but they aren't always who we thought they were. We aren't always who we think we are. But I don't try to change my wife or try to keep her from changing. I don't insist she be who I thought she was. I just ask myself, “In spite of everything, do I still want to be here?” She must ask herself the same thing and as long as both of us answer “yes” then the relationship can move forward. The day either one of us doesn't want to continue, it's over. Yeah, there will be grief, anger, regrets and blame but it will pass and I signed up for that possibility when I said, “I do.”

I love this. So very true. I think we often fall into thinking that there's a rule that should apply to all. Everyone is different, so for some crossdressing is a deal breaker and for others it's not a big deal. This really might be a topic that can only be "answered" one relationship at a time, and that "answer" isn't always going to be the same in every relationship. We grasp for absolutes yet life isn't like that.

[RADER]

PV 101. Theory and Fundamental....
PV 102... What not supposed to wear......

I had enough extra credits to get a second degree! :D

Hay!!! That is great; I wish I could get some extra credits.
The only class I found at my community Collage was a degree in looking out the window,
It gave you a minor as a Weather Man. LOL
Rader

[Pythos]

The whole premise in this thread is BS, and yes, I am impatient reading about fictitious, one-sided scenarios.

I am curious. What is BS about the premise of this thread?

[Marissa]

That is why I made this post. To get an understanding about this.


I did not say all. I said many. And yes MANY do do all sorts of things they dont do when they are presenting as a boy.

Kate, for the most part, I agreed with your initial post for this thread of how an SO may react and justly so.. I give you that.. we or an SO does not sign up for this.. just as if a male marries a woman who is a part time hooker or a drug user or anything else that may not be agreable to the other when they said "I do". Anything under false pretense is open to reaction..positive and negative..

But..would you still see the same as this ongoing 'hookups' if it was a 'normal' convention? would you sit in the bar and watch strangers part ways together to the 13th floor for sex or whatever? even with wedding bands intact. Or is it that you see this because that is what you want to see.. We are adults..and if having an encounter is what we want, then ok..I don't condone a stray from marriage or relationship..but for those single or open relationships..nothing wrong.. even if its the 10 couples in one elevator :)

Pythos. "to get an understanding.."..sorry, but right out the gate you have made your stance and how it upsets you for the reaction an SO takes... that is not one who is open to discussion..that is one who has their opinion and a strong one at that.. but its your right.. just as its a right of a MARRIED SO to take their stance.

Reality..please..this is life..not fantasy land.. what if you married a woman who waited five years to tell you she was a member of the KKK???? Will you open a bottle of your best shampagne and say "thanks, honey, for telling me..now we can live life even closer"...

It was a secret that was kept from the other.. if you need another example..how about a sexual non-curable diseasse..sorry, honey, i thought I could keep it under control..

Please understand that people do get upset and will react when they find out how they were tricked, cheated, or lied too..

Some..want a MAN..nothing, nothing less.. okay..a man in their own vision..ok..

[ReineD]

I am curious. What is BS about the premise of this thread?

This, when you have absolutely no clue as to what really goes on in these marriages, or how many women actually act like this:


having to deal with a SO of some capacity acting for all intents and purposes like a tyrant.



members of our group keep folding to tyranical actions by these S.O.s.



I have read of these SOs throwing out a person's belongings, threatening divorce, NOT TALKING (a really stupid move) and so on.


I don't understand the justification for the SO's irrational behavior.



It is a thread to get to the heart of the matter and that is the irrational behavior.

And this, by assuming that women who have issues with the CDing, again assuming it is just about the clothes, would put up with affairs and spousal abuse. This is an insult:



I find it very ironic how there are marriages where the husband can be completely open about his affairs, or can beat the hell out of his wife, or completely control his wife's life, but by god, a person wants to wear styles that our stupid society has "assigned" to one gender, and that is grounds for divorce.

And this, again assuming that when a woman objects to the CDing, it is only about the "clothes":



Why is CDing so damned wrong? How in all reality does it really hurt a person?



Women, do you not realize when you put a man down for wearing women's clothing you are in fact putting yourself down?

And this, by assuming the women who have issues are all young enough to not be "outdated". What about the women approaching their 60s, or 70s?



In my opinion this is an outdated, and really messed up way to live life.

Your thread is BS because you insist on remembering only the threads that suit your purpose, and again, after having read only one side from the CDer. You persist in ignoring the countless threads from the GGs in Loved Ones and in the M2F, and the "If We GGs Could Say Anything" sticky in the M2F, who say precisely what bothers them about the CDing. And it's not just about the clothes!

And you're completely ignoring all the supportive GGs who are here, who do post, and all the threads from the CDs who are married to supportive wives! So you make a big stink about some women who are having a hard time with this, for reasons that you understand nothing of? Please.

You've been here long enough, Pythos, to have gotten a better handle on this. I'm impatient because your thread is just so biased, it isn't even funny. And you've never even been in the married situation that you're complaining about! :p

[Maria 60]

I totally believe if the relationship is strong and has a lot of communication it can absorb anything. The problem is men are not the communicating type, and i believe the relationship must have not been strong for a woman to put her husband down to begin with. I'am not saying i have a perfect marriage but no matter what we try to do we both support each other. This is my opinion witch may not mean much.

[Marissa]

Thanks Reine for keeping a bit of reality check in this thread and the topic..

[Pythos]

what if you married a woman who waited five years to tell you she was a member of the KKK???

WEll hell, why not ask me how I would react if my Austrian bride turned out to be the long lost love child or Eva and Hitler? And despite all her saying she was not one, did in fact turn out to be a full fledged Nazi?

Wow you actually comapared being a CD and hiding the fact due to public shame that is wrong, to being a KKK member, something that most members proudly display?

Oh great maker.

[Marissa]

WEll hell, why not ask me how I would react if my Austrian bride turned out to be the long lost love child or Eva and Hitler? And despite all her saying she was not one, did in fact turn out to be a full fledged Nazi?

Wow you actually comapared being a CD and hiding the fact due to public shame that is wrong, to being a KKK member, something that most members proudly display?

Oh great maker.

YES!!! Because some women or men see it as such when something like crossdressing is dropped in their lap..sorry, its the world we live in.. how many gay guys have been killed just because they told a guy they met that night that they were gay and want them or made the mistake of assuming, so they lean over to kiss. and that is their last action on this earth...

Pythos..its reality.. not all understand you..me...them...us.. or whoever..

I went left field to get your attention.. because that is how they felt..IT IS THEIR RIGHT TO FEEL THAT WAY....

Whether you agree or not...remember..Congress didn't ask you if you want a tax hike.. they just voted and did it.. your opinion is yours..and yours only..

[Pythos]

RenieD.

I DO NOT IGNORE THE SUPORTERS. I do not ignore those wonderful women in this forum that support and love CDers, or for that matter males that support FtoMs. They are not the issue though.

I made this post in response to yet another thread from a member here who's SO WAS ACTING irationally. However if you look at that post I say quite clearly that there is something else behind this.

However I have indeed heard of women dumping their partner for being a CD, and there were NO other issues. I believe there was such a post here.

YOu have done a lot of assuming. You have made many assumptions about my post.

Such at the bit about me calling women "outdated". I never said the women were outdated. I was saying the NOTION is outdated.

Really Reine, this is not like you to rip into me like this. To say my thread is BS. I am seeing many here thinking along my lines in this thread.

I am not biased. I, like I have said many times am only working off what I have been exposed to, in this case by written word.

You assumed that I was assuming it was all about the clothes. You must understand, in my experience THAT IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT. The lack of freedom of style choice. I can totally understand a GG being upset if her husband decides he not only wants to wear the clothing styles but also wants to act and in the end be a woman. I could see that being a shock.

But in the case of many of these SOs I read about they slam the door shut and stop talking, or throw stuff away, or do stuff that is in no way conducive to getting the real answers.

I also stopped reading the "if we ggs could say anything" thread because some of the things said seem to center around the hiding. My last response in there I think was along the lines of "what would you have done if he was honest with you from the get go?"

I was just shocked and dismayed that you would call my thread BS. As if I was posting it to stir up S*&t. You should know me better than that Reine. I am a seeker of answers, and love discussion. I do not put stuff up simply to get people riled up. IF that is what I have done, then perhaps it should be asked why you are getting riled up.

[Marissa]

Pythos, you read alot of the writing on the wall..you have seen the issues that come from letting a 'secret' out after years of marriage.. you know how some react..still even if you started this thread on behalf of others..you still come across thinking the same.."how dare they act this way"..please..pick something you are passionately against..yet some paticipate in.. think how you would feel.. especially if it was a secret for years..

Life is not a fantasy land..we all would love that.. but its not to be.. not all will ever agree.. to what you believe.. or accept.

[Kittykitty]

Are there male SO's of transmen on this board?

I often worry people's perception of a TG is based on the thong wearing gentleman that boarded the plane a few weeks back. You can hardly blame them for running if that's what they picture.

That makes me wonder if it isn't perhaps a fight or flight respose.

[Marissa]

I can honestly say that the thoughts and ideas here are not based on the experience of SO of transmen. .. but maybe you need the other side for validation..still if we take this side..it stands true to what most are stating..

[Cynthia Anne]

Wow! I read everyones post thus far! My ex knew and 'SAID' she excepted me for who I am before we were married! Wasn't long after that she couldn't except any of it! She purge everything I had! After years of fighting, I purge her! I have a lot of respect for many of the girls here and don't want to step on there toes, but on this one I have to agree with Karen! My mother was dead against polieo shots and the such! She said if I wanted that monkey blood in my kids I would of married an ape! So if you did not tell her before you were married, then why not shouldn't she say! If I wanted to be married to a woman, I would have married one! At the same time I agree she should not run your life 100%! If she does it's as much your fault as it is hers!

[ReineD]

Look, Pythos. If you want to post in the thread from the CDer who talks about his wife not being supportive, and say how badly you feel that it is this way for him, that's fine. You might even post some constructive suggestions as to how he might improve his situation and that would be even better.

But to begin a ranting thread that comes off as if all women who have issues with the CDing are tyrants and are irrational is NOT OK. No matter how you look at it, what you say is biased, not to mention that it's none of your business what goes on in other people's marriages. What gives you the right to post about someone else's personal issues, especially when your take on it is so simplistic!

It's just yet another way to cause division and strife. It is destructive. You can't see that, can you. You get CDers here who are struggling to tell their wives, plus the countless non-registered members who read this, and do you think your thread will bring them any closer to making their lives better for themselves? You get up there on your high horse, not having any personal experience with any of this, not making any mention in your thread of the positive experiences that many other CDers have with their wives, for what? Entertainment?

Yes, I am angry, whether it is characteristic of me or not. I do not approve of your methods. They are not realistic and they do not help matters at all.

[Eryn]

I would like to know the true percentage of SOs of CDers who are not tolerant. Certainly there is a lot of discussion here about the issue, but I seem to remember welcoming many supportive SOs to the forum over the last few weeks. Are we talking about 50%, 20%, or 5% who won't tolerate CDing? I wish there were a way to quantify this.

[ReineD]

Me too. That's what's so frustrating about all of this. Everyone picks and chooses the one or two threads that speak to them, and takes them as if they are the average.

I can say that of all the GGs I've seen come through here, many of the ones who don't have issues with the CDing don't stay on because they don't need to. They don't need the support. Of the others who do struggle with some aspect or another, they try and some come to terms with it all and go off happily into the sunset, while for others the marriages fail, but not because the husbands wear women's clothes occasionally. It is either because the couple cannot get on the same page with the degree of femininity (generally wives do have issues with husbands who want to stop being husbands entirely), or they can't get on the same page with sexual aspects of the CDing, or the husbands do not give their wives the same amount of time it took them to reach self-acceptance and become critical when a wife can't follow them through their pink fog, which causes a situation where they cannot resolve their differences. Or, the husbands continue to want to keep some things secret, usually online activity or perhaps secret outings with men. Or, the husbands move on to wanting to transition and they find greener pastures elsewhere. It's not true that it is always the wives who choose to leave a transitioning husband. There are also wives who are left by a TS because they want to break all the old male ties. Or the CDing bfs leave their gfs for a variety of reasons.

I have seen less than a handful of women who could not stomach the CDing, at any level. But, some of these women deal with raging fetishists or alcoholics. The women who come in here do try, and it is definitely not an inability to see their husbands dressed, or to allow that their husbands need to dress, that eventually causes a marital breakdown when the marriage doesn't work out.

And judging by some of the threads by unhappy CDers apparently there are also women who refuse to join here because they cannot acknowledge the CDing. But to balance this out, there are accounts of CDers whose wives don't even need to join, because they and their husbands are fine with however they've worked things out for themselves.

[busker]

Kate, what is the percentage of the people you see going up to their rooms with guys, compared to the total registration? Maybe 10%? And how many of those are gay or single? I agree with Doc and I think you are overstating.

There may well be some married CDs who do this and it is likely these are the CDs who find themselves with their clothes strewn all over the lawn. But, what about all the CDs who are there with their wives's blessings? All the CDs who dress without wanting to have sex with men?




Pythos. My post is not an attack. It is a clear dose of reality. Sorry you don't like to read it. And your OP most definitely came off as a broad brush statement. Read it again and take particular note of your use of the word "irrational", without at all knowing the particulars of any given situation.

And also, stop stereotyping.
Well, Reine, you have to admit that there is an awful lot of interest in those topics. There is plenty of evidence that a lot of men claim to be on business trips when in fact there is a lot of other things going on NOT related to business. Just look at Congressmen for starters. The thread about dating men had enormous postings and readership into the tens of thousands as I remember. The threads "cd's into men (8000+), Cd's attracted to me (1300+), gay male cd's (18000+) and several other threads have huge responses and reader number off the charts in comparison to other threads. Sure , sex is always popular, but there is some basis in fact. Most of what is on the net regrarding ncds and ********/trannies/ tg/ts seems to be gay related. Being gay is OK but Kate's statement may not be such an exaggeration, though I can't say anything about it with certainty because I have no direct experience, but the CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence certainly suggests she may be more correct than not. I think it is also a question that you have posed on occasion about whether the "denial" is in fact true.
I think there is a lack of honesty here as well as a lot places in the world. Personally, I grown to discount much of what I read here on the forum as either fabrications or people just trying to egg others on for the fun of it.

[Pythos]

The tyranical and irational behavior I am referning to is the threatening of divorce, Cutting of comunications, as the throwing away of personal items.

How is this not tyrancle.


But to begin a ranting thread that comes off as if all women who have issues with the CDing are tyrants and are irrational is NOT OK. No matter how you look at it, what you say is biased, not to mention that it's none of your business what goes on in other people's marriages. What gives you the right to post about someone else's personal issues, especially when your take on it is so simplistic!


And I did not say that every SO reacts like this. I just want to know why it is acceptable for ANY SO to throw out someone personal items, as well as slam the door on any rational discussion. I have to say, Renie, you are approaching my stance in a simplistic manner. You are assuming I think ill of all CDers SOs that react irationally. If they are behaving in this manner only because of the cding, then yea, I am not supportive, I am very one sided as you would say. But if there was indeed more to it, then I may be suportive. Also, if it is none of my business what goes on in other people's marriages...then why are such posts made on this forum? People post about their SOs reaction. We readers respond.

With this thread I was "attacking" on aspect of the behavior of some of the SOs. That is all. It ticks me off to read of an SO in this day and age reacting in such a manner to CDing. Whether or not there is more to it, is a going concern. We can only go by what we are told


It's just yet another way to cause division and strife. It is destructive. You can't see that, can you. You get CDers here who are struggling to tell their wives, plus the countless non-registered members who read this, and do you think your thread will bring them any closer to making their lives better for themselves? You get up there on your high horse, not having any personal experience with any of this, not making any mention in your thread of the positive experiences that many other CDers have with their wives, for what? Entertainment?
.

I see. So my posting such a thread may discourage those wanting to let it all out?? And how exactly does a post like the one I reference help such a person? How do posts from certain individuals here that tear into cds really help? I sure wish you would direct such anger as what you are shooting at me, at some of the more horendously rude individuals here that have posted some really horrible and thoughless remarks.


Yes, I am angry, whether it is characteristic of me or not. I do not approve of your methods. They are not realistic and they do not help matters at all
What methods? I am trying to bring up a painful topic that should be discussed in this discussion board. You think that I am only attacking SOs, you imply that I pay no mind to those supportive SOs. Well you are wrong, completely and utterly. But I am also one that deals with problems. Irational behavior such as that I have stated already, is a problem. I am not trying to cause strife, I am trying to get a subject of discussion out. I made a seperate thread so that I would not be accused of hijaking the other's thread, because believe you me I wanted to post within that thread.

I am going to abandon this thread. It is getting too heated and now we are starting to act silly.

I have no need of enemies. I have enough strife in my life at the moment. My dreams at present are collapsing, which is not making me happy right now, and you may be able to tell in my past few posts.



THOSE actions are what tick me off.

If the SO finds out their partner has been messing around behind their back with the possible addition of while crossdrressed, believe me, That person doing the messing around would not get my sympathy, unless the SO did indeed throw away personal items. That to me is NEVER acceptable.

[ReineD]

Busker, there are almost 7,000 current active members here. There are maybe a thousand who post consistently and the bulk of the posts here have little to do with dating men. At any rate, I'm assuming the other 5,000/6,000 have less a desire to engage in the fantasy than some of the others? :)

The dating men threads with so many hits are misleading. The same people who post in them hit the thread again and again every time someone new posts, if they've set their preferences to subscribe to the threads they post in. This bumps up the hits considerably. And then, how many of the answers were positive? 50%? And how many of those were pure fantasy, simply because this is a forum and people can fantasize as much as they want? And of the positive answers, still how many are gay, and how many others said they would not like to have sex, but would simply like to experience being taken out on a date so they could feel like a woman?

I've no doubt there are many men who would have sex with other men and it makes sense that some are married. But isn't this the case whether someone is a CDer or not? And how many of these men are gay, bi, and single, vs. hetero and married? Kate was making a comment based on the reason a wife would disapprove of the CDing, and not how many gay CDers there are. Also, Doc was there (see post #20), he's a pretty sharp guy (or she's a sharp lady) and his impression was that the majority of CDers were not there for sex. I believe him, rather than someone (with all due respect to Kate) who has said several times that she thinks most CDers are TSs in denial. :p

The denial ... I vacillate on this, depending on how many fantasy threads I read in a day. They do get to me after awhile. :p

[docrobbysherry]

--------------------------------------------And I did not say that every SO reacts like this. I just want to know why it is acceptable for ANY SO to throw out someone personal items, as well as slam the door on any rational discussion.

With this thread I was "attacking" on aspect of the behavior of some of the SOs. That is all. It ticks me off to read of an SO in this day and age reacting in such a manner to CDing. -------------------------------------
.

I'm just unclear about one thing, Pythos. R U only condemning the SO's for over reacting, etc.? Or, r u also blaming CDs for ACCEPTING such outrageous acts from their SO's?:straightface:

[Pythos]

Good question Docrobbysherry (doc if I may),

I am condemming only some of the SOs that react in this manner. As far as the Cd accepting, I think to a degree they too are at fault. But I would expect this could be almost the same as the "beaten wife" scenerio, in SOME cases. I know, and know even more now after some points made by Renei, that there are circumstanses that the CDer deserves everything they get (excluding the loss of personal property, for me, that is a no entry zone). I do think some members of our group do fold too fast. Do accept a bit too much irationality. But some of the actions of the SOs are just beyond horendous in some cases.
The test I have for that is, how would the SO react if the tables were turned. Would she or he really like to have their stuff thrown out? Somehow I think not.

[Ally Anne]

I love this. So very true. I think we often fall into thinking that there's a rule that should apply to all. Everyone is different, so for some crossdressing is a deal breaker and for others it's not a big deal. This really might be a topic that can only be "answered" one relationship at a time, and that "answer" isn't always going to be the same in every relationship. We grasp for absolutes yet life isn't like that.

Yes! Thank you for posting the words I was struggling to find.

..... But some of the actions of the SOs are just beyond horendous in some cases.
The test I have for that is, how would the SO react if the tables were turned. Would she or he really like to have their stuff thrown out? Somehow I think not.[/QUOTE]

Very true Pythos! There is no need for violent/destructive behavior.

[Stephenie S]

Sometimes compromise in a marriage is necessary. Is this "folding"? No, it's not. It's compromise. Most of marriage is compromise. Two people can't live together without it.

Was it wrong to throw out someone else's belongings? Of course it was. I am just pleading for a bit of empathy. Some understanding of a woman who has been lied to and disrespected for many years. She is afraid. And fear makes otherwise rational people do bad things sometimes. Many, many woman have a hard time accepting crossdressing. A fact. Many, many men lie and deceive their wives because of this. A fact. This is not a hard concept to understand.

Blaming the wife in this situation is problematic. It's hard for me to see that she deserves much blame at all. We would all be better off living in a perfect world, and I appreciate your high ideals. That's one of the values of being young. But in reality we have here a woman who was lied to and ignored for years. She's just a bit ticked off. I find it hard to get too upset about her behavior.

Stephie

[ReineD]

Well, blaming the wife without having been there, without knowing the other dynamics in the marriage, is totally asinine.

I'm done with this thread too. There are just so many times that I can repeat myself. :wall:

[Kaitlyn26]

I think women are less in touch with their feelings and how their treatment of others can affected that person's feelings. For all the bottling up of emotions that men do, rarely does a man ever not have a straight answer to the questions how, or why. Women seem to lack those answers often. I think those types seriously do not care how their S.O. feels, only themselves.

Do they realize? Not really! Ever had your mom call you a S.O.B? I've been telling my mother to stop calling me that for 20 years and she still hasn't figured out why......:brolleyes: Some people are just thick headed. Often times it's the ones that are angry tyrants.

Those S.O.'s that put up with that kind of thing are also weak minded people that fear the idea of being alone. They put up with it because they had a hard time finding anyone to marry them the first time and do not like the idea of being alone again, and later in life. Humans prefer companionship.

[Sandra]

Well lets see now, women are tyrants, weak minded, have hard times finding anyone to marry them, don't care about peoples feelings, anything else you want to throw in just so we really know what you think of us.

[Kaitlyn26]

Well lets see now, women are tyrants, weak minded, have hard times finding anyone to marry them, don't care about peoples feelings, anything else you want to throw in just so we really know what you think of us.


Those S.O.'s that put up with that kind of thing

Is S.O. a term only appropriate for a female, or can it be extended to specify the cross dressing male in the relationship?

[Sandra]

Point taken :)..............

[Tina B.]

A woman has every right to accept the news that her husband is a cross dresser any way she pleases, she can accept it as no big deal, or she can scream get out, if that's the way she feels. We all have feelings that are beyond rational, about things we feel deeply. It's up to the husband to decide just how he wants to deal with her actions, run, hide, or walk away, they both get to choose. Me I told my wife all about me, and what it means to me, and that it would never go away, and I could never quit. I was ready for what ever might have followed. I got lucky and have a women that found it was no big deal to her, but had she walked out the door, I would have been heart broken for a while, but I would have understood, it just was not something she could live with. If it was going to be that hard for her I would have wanted to bust up, for her sake. There are things I could never live with, and she must have things she would never put up with, after all we had both been married before, and knew there was things we would not live with.It's only a good marriage if both partners can find peace and happiness, otherwise it such an ordeal, why bother. Children do survive it, and it can be better than them living in a bitter angry house. Live is short, and both sides deserve to find a little happiness in this mean old world and that may not be together.
Tina B.

[Marissa]

Well lets see now, women are tyrants, weak minded, have hard times finding anyone to marry them, don't care about peoples feelings, anything else you want to throw in just so we really know what you think of us.

LOL...for a sec, thought you were talking about my ex-wife :heehee: :tongueout :love:
So this is my 'goal' that one looks to acheive if transitioning????? :heehee::D

Okay, just kidding about both statements..well..the ex part is still out for a ruling :battingeyelashes:

[CarlaWestin]

If they (including me) did not tell their SO before they became an item. Then the SO did not sign up for this and has all the rights in the world to react any way they want to... Imho. I would not blame my wife for kicking me to the curb for not telling her. Even though I did not have the guts to tell her I was a pervert!!!
Karen, you just stick it right on. I've recently let my wife know that I am a raging cross-dresser (and more) while she is in the throws of figuring her own phsycho-sh*t out with a therapist. The theripist is an expert in gender issues and most of her clientele are CD's. I attended a session and was embraced by the professional as being the one that actually had a clear focus on who I am. I'm financially savvy and secure and my CD is glorified rather than shunned. Damn, I'm just gonna' have fun with this.