Fighting, Bickering, and Controversy - Why? What is the Point???!!!

[Anne2345]

I joined this forum in March of this year. As those of you that have read my posts know, I am in the closet. I have my reasons, and I have shared these reasons with the forum. I have also expressed my love of my closet, my love for what I do within it, and my love for myself as a crossdresser.

I have expressed myself in this manner because it is important to me. Until joining this forum, I was completely in the closet (with the exception of my wife). By joining and participating here, I have at least cracked open my closet door, peeked out, and let some in, even if only but through the "safety" and "anonymity" of the internet. I do not regret this. Indeed, I have learned much since I have joined, and have quickly evolved and matured in ways that I could not have imagined pre-membership. And I am quite grateful of the membership and the forum for providing and making available such a resource to those such as I that we can learn and grow from.

Although I come here for many reasons, I do not come here to fight or intentionally create controversy. Instead, I come here to make friends, participate, share experiences, learn, and grow, not only as a crossdresser, but as a person. In this, I believe my record speaks for itself, and speaks volumes as to the type of person I think I am.

And yet, somehow, someway, some of my posts and threads relating to my love of my closet seem to be the cause of the last two major arguments between the closeted community and some within the "out and about" community. Although true I have undoubtedly fanned the flames of controversy through subsequent threads I posted (although it was not my intent), I have only done so in defense of my love for what I hold dear, and to request that we remain civil to and respectful of one another. In my opinion, the concepts of civility and respect should be neither difficult to grasp, nor difficult to practice.

Some of you, however, have wisely advised that I simply ignore such negative non-believing naysayers, and move on. And perhaps I should. But thoughtful posts and threads take time and effort to compose. I enjoy writing what I post (with the exception of this post, and others related to it), and the time in which I put into my efforts. I may not be as articulate as some, others may express themselves much better than I, and sometimes I am undoubtedly completely off base, but what I do here is important to me, and has much personal meaning.

So when I put the time and effort into doing what I do, and it is met with undeserved insult, based upon no substantive, legitimate argument whatsoever, I find such responses to my well-intentioned, otherwise innocent and innocuous, words to be hurtful, upsetting, and noxious. In the real world, I allow very little to rattle me. I have well-placed defenses erected, walls and barriers constructed, and I react accordingly, with little ire or emotion. In here, I do not want to have defenses in place. I should not have to erect walls to protect that which I love and hold dear. I should not be subject to feelings of shame, or be hurt by the careless and thoughtless words of others. Although I do not allow myself to be hurt in the outside world, I also do not open up my innermost feelings and emotions to the outside world. In here, I revel in emotion and feeling emotion (particularly emotion associated with my love of crossdressing). But there is a risk to be taken in this - I am more fragile, more easily wounded and hurt. Like everyone else here, I have emotions and feelings, too. I want simply to love, express myself, learn, share, and participate without fear of being unduly insulted or diminished.

Perhaps the mistake is mine, for writing about such things. Perhaps I should tone down my words and emotion, and write about things that are of little or no consequence. Perhaps I should not write about anything at all. I recognize that many of you that have responded to my posts have been quite positive and supportive, but I have seen others also attack not only me, but sisters of mine here that I love, respect, and admire deeply for engaging in exactly the same type of discourse and writing I attempt to convey and practice. This is going on right now, in fact! And yet, some of us wonder why certain members do not participate as often as they otherwise would, right?

We are all free to write what we choose to write within the parameters and rules set forth by the forum. So please do not let someone such as I dissuade one from expressing herself - that is not my intention. But words often do have consequences, and at times, I find myself discouraged and hurt by the words of others here. For all of the advice I have received to simply ignore such folk, instead, I wish such folk would ignore me, and allow me to retain the sense of dignity, joy, love, and acceptance I have acquired here and so covet since joining the forum.

As always, I hope this is not too much to ask for . . . .

Btw, what color are my panties today, you may ask? They are black. Take that for whatever meaning you attribute to it. :straightface:

[suchacutie]

Anne, I do understand that it's hard to overlook comments that might seem negative or insensitive. Sadly, the statistics of it almost require that you will get a few responses in that vein. Instead of ignoring them, might I suggest that you (and me too!) simply try to imagine why they might say what they do, and then after that exercise, move on. Since this is a wide-ranging forum, the responses we get will be wide ranging. As with any statistical curve, how can they all possibly be positive? :)

Lastly, if someone has a point they are burning to make, they won't ignor you because they are wedded to their point (heck, aren't we all!). Every time we post something, it's like putting up a lightening rod...if there is a storm, it will be hit.

But that's part of the fun of it, too! Heck, it's nothing personal as they don't know who you are, actually! Please have fun with it and keep posting!

Oh, and if I had had panties on today, they would have been black as well! :)

tina

[Lucy_Bella]

Anne,
It has taken me a few times to just ignore people from this site that do not agree with your lifestyle..I can in so many different ways bicker about other lifestyles that seem to be popular with the main stream in this forum ( those who comment most here but not all ) .. But why ? I refuse to be negative and it's not my place, why can people just keep certain comments about how others feel to themselves ? It would be such a nicer place to visit if that could happen.

But no , you have people in here whom feel they have blazed an amazing break through and everyone else is wrong about how they deal with the issues of CDing..

Shame ..Isn't it?

[AllieSF]

Mine are nude with a nice lace on top. Now on to the less serious stuff.

Anne, I have been here awhile and read most new posts and threads as they come on here. That means I am on here too damn much. I have seen these unfortunate posts and then threads get lost in other issues or comments brought up in the various posts. I have seen both genetic men and women do the same thing, but to me it seems to be more of a male thing, like trying to be king of the hill and always getting in the last word or comment. That male thing sometimes sneaks over to our femme self (TG, CD or TS) and rears its ugly head. The best I can say as has been said in your other current troubled thread is to let your skin get a little tougher, try to keep the various posters on track with the topic you have chosen, even asking the Mods to help if they can, and then ignore as best possible those that seem un-ignorable (is that a word?). If you are going to fight to the very death (i.e. where a Mod closes the thread), then do so with dignity and never lower yourself to the level of your fellow fighter. However, during the skirmish (much better to use a softer word to lessen the severity of the confrontation) always remember that as you tell the other they don't know much about you, the fact is you probably do not know much about the other either. I have been very surprised several times when a close trusted friend explained why someone I did not care for acted the way they did. It really helped me to understand and to expand my patience and tolerance zones to others. Try to shrug off the harsh words and embrace the good ones. This forum is also a great training ground for preparing ourselves to deal with others as they relate to our other side, that other side that brought us to this forum in the first place. Good luck, cheer up, I love ya and I send you a lot of hugs.

[Amanda22]

Anne, I appreciate your posts immensely. I've been discouraged here, too, and once tried to delete my account because I was so frustrated by some responses. Fortunately for me, the forum rules prohibit account deletion.

I understand that you care a lot and I love that about you. A person who feels deeply and has a large capacity for compassion is naturally going to be more easily hurt. I've been hurt emotionally my entire life from being a small child to when I was disowned by my family. But this isn't about me and I'm getting on a tangent.

Please do not stop posting and do not change. You're perfect just the way you are. Take my word for it.

My panties were pink boy shorts today, if you simply must know my deepest, most important secrets. Ha ha!

[angies GG]

Anne - I don't know if I've noticed any of your previous posts, but I think this particular post is well written and thought out. I'm a new(ish) wife of a CDer. We have been married for almost 22 years but just started working TOGETHER to try to accept what this means to our relationship. We put our marriage before everything else so we are trying to find a way that we can both live with.

So far, I personally don't feel that we (I) have received any negative feedback. But I have been a little concerned with some of the posts I have read. Some of them were a bit overwhelming for me when I was first on the site. I don't judge anyone for their own personal position (in or out of the closet or CD or TS) but it was very scary for me. Now that my husband and I have been communicating often I don't feel as threatend by what others do or don't do. I just believe in what we have and what boundaries we have set for our CDing experience.

That being said, I do sometimes just ignore some of the posts that I don't currently relate to. It is easier for me to stay within my comfort zone and more easily accept what my husband is going through.

[Intertwined]

My two favorite phrases come to mind;

It doesn't matter what others think of you. It's what you think about yourself that counts.

&

Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

[Tara D. Rose]

I’m with you Anne. For so many years now I have been a member of many internet social sites. And through those years I have even quit some of my favorite sites because of bickering ,flaming and fighting, etc. I know I’m just as intelligent as anyone and I always tried to be fair in any debates that may have arisen or did arise as a result mostly from my typed words just being so misunderstood. I feel that if we were all sitting at the round table discussing the subject matters of the latest threads and post’s, that there would be a whole lot less voice raising and of others implying that some of the ones they’re talking to as being dumb and implying that ones they’re talking to as being not as intelligent as they are.

It is just so easy for people on any website to turn up the arrogance volume for some odd reason that I cannot understand. If I’m wrong on this, then if all the ones in the other argumentative thread were all stting at the round table in person and having the very same subject matter in a conversation, would all jump from their seats and scream and yell and dominate the conversations? Would they yell you’re just a damn dumba**? I think not. So why can’t we show respect for each other on here as though we were all sitting at the table in person.

Because I have seen so many flamed wars just like the ones of late on here, I just dampen my opinions and feelings for the most part, for I don’t want to get attacked on here. I know that typed words can be taken so differently than if one could here you speak the words. There should be some unspoken rules on here, and those would be never imply to any other member that they are stupid or dumb(not saying that you’ve done that). And to be fair and respectful at all times.

I feel, yes I feel, that I do not or cannot get the full enjoyment out of this site by not partaking in some of the threads that get so heated, for if I took a side with a respectful view, thought, or opinion, well then I’d just get attacked. Oh I can take being disagreed with all day long, but as many on here, are very high spirited, and have pride and big hearts, and so sometimes attacks do happen. So I really feel forced to dampen my thoughts and opinions or not even get involved on the previous threads that seemed to get carried away with some angry responses. So as threads like this continue like this, then it’s going to be member against member, or members mentioning begrudged other members on other threads in a not so flattering way. I’m not sure if that has happened yet but I can see it probably happening as a result from anguish built up over time.

And then there was that TS,TG,CD, war thread a few days ago that got so heated. That thread was like even we do not understand each other. I have seen it for years now. And now it’s like the more I have learned, the more I know how really different I am., and the more reclusive I now feel of myself now for even we cannot get along with ourselves.
And now with all of the above being said by me, and contrary to what I just said, I’m now going to go against the grain of my own beliefs and take this one chance here with the hope that my opinion will not insult anyone. I say this with respect to all that are or were involved. I feel that of the member here that does go out and about in public is doing a good thing for us all. For I believe she conducts herself out there with honor and dignity and of her action thereto, can be a reflection for all of us. I applaud her for going out. For she is just one person that is merely scratching the surface of what most not all, want society to view us, and that is we conduct ourselves with utmost pride, dignity, honor and respect for all others. And to be a representative for what we really are and that we are not the freaks and molesters and perverted people that Hollywood and society has such a field day of portraying us.

On the other side of her, I respectfully disagree of her words that those of us that stay home or in the closet have no guts or a sack. That debate went round and round. Then it got to having to define what fear is? Oh my.. That sounds like Bill Clinton (define sex), so it had to go so far as to “define fear”).

Then a poster was explaining about some cd’s that are so far from passable that they would “look like a truck driver”. When I read that line, I just smiled and thought of a joke to go with it. So responded with, “be careful let’s not stereotype truck drivers”. “What does a truck driver look like” I asked? I was just trying to be funny and not trying to take a stab at anyone. Well to prove how typed words get so misunderstood by a large percentage of the time, someone actually came back at me and described to me what a trucker looked like. Heck, I’m 54 years old, I know what a trucker looks like. But this poster mis-understood me and went on to do me a favor and explained it to me. I could see right then, that the joke I was trying to make didn’t quite hit in the joke department in the mind of the one that explained it to me. Yes I took a little offense, but I just thought for a minute, and remembering past flames on here, I just said , Tara, do like the Beatles and “let it be”. I mention this now only to demonstrate what this post is about to me. I’m not mad at anyone, I want joy, piece, respect, harmony with all of us here. Anne, I vote for you to stay on here , don't go anywhere. i love reading all of your thougts.

I hope and pray that my words here do not entice attacks or anything. I just want us all to work a little harder and or to be more thoughtful to each other, for aren’t we the sisterhood?

Love & respect………….Tara

[Tara D. Rose]

My two favorite phrases come to mind;

It doesn't matter what others think of you. It's what you think about yourself that counts.

&

Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

This was so funny Intertwined I liked that, I may use that line on my wife someday,,,,,,,,,,,,,not....ha ha,

Here's one I use sometimes, when my wife says I have no morals, I say yes I do, she says, name one moral you have, , I then come up with one, I say, well , ok, let me think,,,oh yeah here's one, when I make fun of fat people, I make sure they're at least 10 feet away so they can't hear me, so honey don't tell me I don't have morals.

[Cherry Lynn]

Our world would be a better place to live in if some did not think they had to push their lifestyle on everyone else. We have the religious fanatics in the U.S., Muslim fanatics committing terrorist acts here and abroad to mention a few and members of our own community attacking others with different views. I do not push my views on others and excpect the same consideration but that is probably too much to ask for. When I see posts ridiculing others for their way of living I think they really need HRT because the testosterone is rampant.

[Cynthia Anne]

Anne, I respect you and your thoughts as much and more then I respect anyone elses on this forum! However when it comes to' attack' I welcome it! If it's done in fashion! I can and do learn from it! I learn such things as perhaps my veiws may be wrong or perhaps not as bright as I thought! Most importantly I learn from the attacker how low there selfestean is and how much they can belittle themselves to beleave there thoughts are always right! I learn quickly who is who when it comes to family love! As this family of cross dressers should be like sisters and the moderators are like loving mothers, we have our distance cousins, the attacke
rs that we never knew and have no desire to know! Love you as always Anne! Hugs! By the way til I take a shower this mourn', me panties are pink!:)

[GingerLeigh]

Anne I agree. I come here to find solace from the bigotry and intolerance of the (ahem...) normal world. Unfortunately I find that there's just as much of it here as there is of it out there, so it can be difficult to say what you really feel without someone raining on your parade. This closet/public issue is a dead dog everyone's kicked at least once. I respect you for your decision to stay closeted (mine is the same) just as I respect those that are out and about. In the end it doesn't matter. The few that attack should just be ignored. They'll never be satisfied or understand.

Ginger

BTW, black too.

[Noortje]

Dear Anne,

I agree that it is painful when your good intentions are hijacked, and your thoughtful post turns into a heated discussion you do not want to be a part of. No matter how many shades of grey you put into the starting post, there will always be someone who identifies the colour white in there, and starts arguing in favour of black. Things get out of your hands quickly.

But then, that's what a forum is. It is a place for people to write their thoughts and opinions. The people responding to your post have as much right to speak their mind as you do. Some of those people will disagree with what you say, and write that. You can be a part of the discussion you start, but you can not control it. Perhaps you can find some solace in the fact that, even though the discussion has degenerated beyond the sophistication and intentions you started it with, your post will always be at the top. It will always be the first thing that the thread's visitors will read, and its subtlety and reason will shine all the brighter compared to the ruckus below. Your readers will know what your opinion is.

Like you, I have not been a member for a very long time, and like you, I have found the forum to be a great resource. It has helped me understand and accept myself a lot faster and better than if I had been isolated. I am personally undecided about the role of the closet in my life, and I have found the discussions very beneficial to my thought process.

Please understand that my disagreeing with you is not a personal attack. I appreciate what you write, and it is my intention to contribute to the community by offering my thoughts and opinions. I would not take the time to write a response if I dismissed your thoughts as nonsense. I would just close the browser. I firmly believe that it is discussion and the questioning of our assumptions that is the motor of progress. This is not fighting, and not bickering. It is controversy, but in my mind controversy is not always a bad thing.

[Frédérique]

Fighting, Bickering, and Controversy - Why? What is the Point???!!!

It’s a discussion forum, silly...:heehee:

You were thinking of submitting this new thread OP, and I composed a message saying that you should leave the topic alone, move on, and generally DROP it. However, I accidentally deleted this message in the act of sending it! An act of providence, perhaps? Later, I thought that was a good thing, since who am I to tell you what to do? Nothing's better left unsaid, you know. I’m pleased that many members appreciate your eloquence – it takes a lot of “sack” to write like you do, Anne...


I recognize that many of you that have responded to my posts have been quite positive and supportive, but I have seen others also attack not only me, but sisters of mine here that I love, respect, and admire deeply for engaging in exactly the same type of discourse and writing I attempt to convey and practice. This is going on right now, in fact! And yet, some of us wonder why certain members do not participate as often as they otherwise would, right?

Yes, it’s largely a “damned if you DO, damned if you DON’T” situation, or “once bitten, thrice shy," in my case. It all comes down to how you wish to come across in these posts, and you write accordingly – in fact, I always take note of which members do NOT appear within a controversial thread, and they seem to be the ones I look up to in terms of civility and comportment...


It really helped me to understand and to expand my patience and tolerance zones to others. Try to shrug off the harsh words and embrace the good ones. This forum is also a great training ground for preparing ourselves to deal with others as they relate to our other side, that other side that brought us to this forum in the first place.

That’s good advice. It would help immensely if the more argumentative members would explain themselves beforehand, to make things easier for us all, but that requires self-awareness and some decent communication skills. One thing that unites us all on this site is a basic, underlying insecurity about what we do, or who we are, or how we are perceived – I feel this comes through loud and clear between the lines of conversation, but the stubbornness could (or should) be peeled away from time to time, if only to help us understand one another...


So as threads like this continue like this, then it’s going to be member against member, or members mentioning begrudged other members on other threads in a not so flattering way. I’m not sure if that has happened yet but I can see it probably happening as a result from anguish built up over time.

Yes, sometimes the anguish builds up over time, and participation in these divisive discussions can be seen as a perverse cleansing ritual. I enjoy the give-and-take (which is usually give-and-give) up to a point, but when the proceedings degenerate into personal attacks, I leave the battlefield and seek a more peaceful environment -- I did that yesterday, as a matter of fact...

I must say that this particular forum is the best one I’ve been on so far, and leaving is something I would rather not do...

[Sally24]

I think you should "skip" reading posts from certain individuals. I know of a number of people that post often that obviously have problems in their lives and take it out on people here. I occasionaly call them out on their mistakes but frequently don't even read their entries to a thread. Some just refuse to read and learn from others posts. I find that forums are enjoyed best if you filter out some of the negative static.

[Emily Ann Brown]

A smart woman once said...better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool than open it and erase all doubt!

Anne, you have friends here! We are here when you need us.


Em

[Amanda22]

I think you should "skip" reading posts from certain individuals.......I find that forums are enjoyed best if you filter out some of the negative static.

That reminds me of a feature I've used. If you visit a member's Profile Page, among the links on the left under their photo is "Add to Ignore List." It works very well.

[Diane Elizabeth]

Anne, I may not be able to put into words all my thoughts as you and so many others can, but I support what you have to contribute to this website. The others have said it better than me. I know how you feel as I have had a few attacks from some of my postings. Its not a matter of right or wrong. Its just that some see life thru a different pair of eyes. Some just speak before they know what they are saying (oops, I've done that before myself). My point is that you have to IGNORE those that disagree with what you have to say. It still hurts when attacked. But, don't let them get the better of you.

Keep posting and your friends here will keep supporting you.

[suzy1]

Anne, your skin is still not thick enough yet. Give it a year girl.
Now the best way to handle the few members here that try to upset us is to go into P.M. mode and “have sport” with them as we British say.
I had one a little while ago [If you are reading this then you know who I am talking about] and winding her up was so much fun!
And these members always bite. I see it as a sport.

Anne, don’t let it get to you or I am over on the next plane [remember?]

A big hug from SUZY

[sometimes_miss]

My own opinion on all this is that we are all under a tremendous amount of pressure; the frustration simply builds up and there's nowhere to let off steam. We can't do it in public, we can't do it with our SO's if we even have one, there's usually no where to go to get rid of the pent up frustration. Many of us are probably affection starved as well, being alienated from the women (or perhaps men) that we wish to be with so very much. Also, we emulate females for such a variety of reasons; yet, want desperately to feel that there are others like us too, perhaps too much need to feel that way and so wind up insisting that others are wrong and we are right. When the truth is, we're all right; but for ourselves, yet not necessarily for anyone else; and that thought disturbs many people deeply, causing emotional outbursts, just to vent those negative feelings away.
We're all entitled to our own opinion; but shouldn't force it on others.

[TGMarla]

Man! Even real girls don't fight like we do! Maybe it's because we're guys, and we tend to sling testosterone around a little too much. When you think about that, it's quite funny.....guys wearing dresses getting all macho with each other. A whole lot of one-upsmanship.

I can walk in heels better than you can!
Can not!
Can too! And my dress is prettier than yours!
Is not!
Is too!

LOL....any outside visitor could see how ridiculous it gets in a hurry! Buncha guys acting like girls beating on each other like guys over what to do when we're acting like girls.

I'm telling mom!

[Noortje]

I probably shouldn't... It's just that I am pathologically incapable of keeping my mouth shut, when confronted with such a precious gem:


My point is that you have to IGNORE those that disagree with what you have to say.

That can't really have been what you were trying to convey, was it? Please?

I'll go away now.

[Kaitlyn26]

If you're really worried about what an "attacker" will say to you, ignore them! I like to keep a few of those members that I can't always deal with on ignore. That way I can reveal their post if I feel like dealing with it, or just keep it hidden. :)

Keep in mind that some of these members you see at the middle of an uproar are not so innocent.

[suzy1]

No Kaitlyn, I am not trolling, I am just giving them what they deserve but in a way that just might not be O.K. with the moderators if you know what I mean. ;)


SUZY

[Annaliese]

I have only one thing to say, and one thing to do.

Thank and a hug

[docrobbysherry]

OMG, Anne! What a SNEAKY WAY to start another "panty thread"!

[Karren H]

A smart woman once said...better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool than open it and erase all doubt!

Anne, you have friends here! We are here when you need us.


Em

FINE!! I can take a hint!

[LilSissyStevie]

On internet forums I try to live by two rules:

1) Don't take yourself too seriously

2) Never take anyone else as seriously as you take yourself

Next time you start to feel hurt, angry or disrespected, laugh instead and remember the rules. Also, if you come across a post that you feel you must comment upon, if you take a deep breath and go have a cup of coffee, you'll find that 95% of the time someone else will make your point for you and they'll be the one that takes the heat. Then you can just sit back and watch the comedy unfold.
:devil::heehee::D

[Sweet Sabrina]

Well if this is a panty thread then I am wearing a very slim thong with light and dark blue flowers. Currently gloating in a pool sunning my backside

[VeronicaMoonlit]

share experiences, learn, and grow, not only as a crossdresser, but as a person.

One cannot grow if one only listens to people who mirror your experiences.


Some of you, however, have wisely advised that I simply ignore such negative non-believing naysayers, and move on. And perhaps I should.

No, you should not. Lets use this metaphor: Watching your house burn while covering your ears while saying "la la la not listening" while people are telling you your house is burning is futile.


So when I put the time and effort into doing what I do, and it is met with undeserved insult, based upon no substantive, legitimate argument whatsoever,

Excuse me? I saw several well argued rebuttals, by Violet and Pythos in particular. Neither attacked you personally but the "concept" of the closet.



Anne, your skin is still not thick enough yet. Give it a year girl.

I would agree, for the most part.


Now the best way to handle the few members here that try to upset us is to go into P.M. mode and “have sport” with them as we British say.

You shouldn't do that. when people say to Anne that they really don't think she can love the closet, and that what keeps her there is fear of various kinds and so she says she loves it to not have to admit that fear keeps her there., both reasonable fear and unreasonable fear and of course a little paranoia about what "might" happen.....perhaps they think they are telling Anne things that are very helpful and are not trying to upset her.


I had one a little while ago [If you are reading this then you know who I am talking about] and winding her up was so much fun!

You shouldn't do that.\



No Kaitlyn, I am not trolling, I am just giving them what they deserve but in a way that just might not be O.K. with the moderators if you know what I mean. ;)SUZY

I do know what you mean.
Veronica

[Anne2345]

I've been discouraged here, too, and once tried to delete my account because I was so frustrated by some responses. Fortunately for me, the forum rules prohibit account deletion.

Fortunately for you that the forum rules prohibit account deletion? First of all, I did not know this (btw, I'm not going anywhere :)), but second, and most importantly, it is fortunate for the forum that you were unable to delete your account!



Because I have seen so many flamed wars just like the ones of late on here, I just dampen my opinions and feelings for the most part, for I don' want to get attacked on here.

This is exactly what I hope we can all avoid. I am all for debate and civil discourse. Much can be learned from the considersation and discussion of new ideas, differing opinions, different perspectives, and various insight. The freedom to engage in debate and civil discourse is precious, and to be protected at all costs. However, as I posed the question before, is it too much to ask for that when we engage in discussion that we remain civil and respectful, and leave the insults behind, when doing so? I hope not! Each and every member that chooses to participate here has much to offer, if that member offers her gift of opinion and perspective in a kind and respectful manner. When we are undeservedly attacked, some of us, including myelf, tend to withdraw, and reevaluate whether we really want to continue to participate. At the end of the day, who does this serve? It serves no one!



Anne I agree. I come here to find solace from the bigotry and intolerance of the (ahem...) normal world.

The life of a crossdresser is not always an easy life. Certainly, it can be quite fulfilling and lovely, but it is not without its challenges. So why bring such negative attitudes into this forum? We may all be very different people, but we share at least one thing in common, despite the differences within this commonality. But because of this, even if it is for no other reason than this, is it not even more important to be kind, loving, and supporting to those within this particular membership?



But then, that's what a forum is. It is a place for people to write their thoughts and opinions. The people responding to your post have as much right to speak their mind as you do. Some of those people will disagree with what you say, and write that. You can be a part of the discussion you start, but you can not control it. .

Please understand that my disagreeing with you is not a personal attack.

It is controversy, but in my mind controversy is not always a bad thing.

Noortje, thank you for your well-thought, well-presented response. I do not consider your response to be a personal attack. Instead, I could not agree with you more that this is a forum, and that members have just as much right as the next member to express their opinions. I also agree that controversy is not always a bad thing. Controversy can lead to many positive outcomes. As I said in the OP, I have learned much since joining this forum. I have considered other member's thoughts and perspectives, and reevaluated my own life as a result. I have grown tremendously since joining. This occurred as a result of all of the wonderful stories, opinions, and advice floating around here. It did not occur as a result of being insulted, or having participated in a game of one-ups-manship. It did not occur as a result of having my own opinions summarily dismissed, and being diminished by those that disagree with me, or otherwise believe they know me better than I know myself or my circumstances. I thrive in discussion, debate, and considering controversial topics. We all do. But do we when the discussion turns negative for no good reason? Do we when insults are being thrown around indiscriminately? Who does this benefit, other than to serve whatever selfish purposes the offending member benefits from while engaging in such tactics? I am with you - bring it on! Just remember that we are all people here, that we all matter, and that this is not a competition!



OMG, Anne! What a SNEAKY WAY to start another "panty thread"!

Busted!!! You know me too well! Btw, I noticed that you neglected to disclose the color of your panties! Soooooooo, do tell! :)



One cannot grow if one only listens to people who mirror your experiences.

At no point have I stated I do not want to read the experiences or opinions of others that differ from mine. Quite the contrary! I value greatly such opinions and perspectives. The point of my thread is to request that we refrain from insult, and that we remain civil and respectful of each other. Nothing more, nothing less! If this is not the understanding you arrived at after reading my post, the fault is mine for not adequately explaining myself.



Excuse me? I saw several well argued rebuttals, by Violet and Pythos in particular. Neither attacked you personally but the "concept" of the closet.

At no point have I ever claimed that Violet or Pythos attacked me! I have much respect for both members. Both members, as well as others, submitted well-argued "rebuttals" in which they offered their respective opinions. Neither engaged in insults, or attempted to unfairly diminish me, or those such as I. I am not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that I am calling out the Violets and Pythos of the forum, but I can assure you that I am not.

[sometimes_miss]

Man! Even real girls don't fight like we do!
No, it's worse. LIke you wrote, guys argue or fight, get it over with and forget about it. At least I do. Women behave in relational aggression; indirectly undermining each others lives when they don't like someone. Instead of the dialogue you wrote above, you'd hear one tell someone else that the one in question shouldn't wear that dress/heels/jewelry because it doesn't suit her, or because she's showing off, or she doesn't have the complexion/figure for it, or the styles don't match, etc.. It would be an end-around attack instead of direct. And, it goes on and on and on and on and on. Most women hold grudges way longer than most men do.

[Kaitlyn26]

No, it's worse. LIke you wrote, guys argue or fight, get it over with and forget about it. At least I do. Women behave in relational aggression; indirectly undermining each others lives when they don't like someone. Instead of the dialogue you wrote above, you'd hear one tell someone else that the one in question shouldn't wear that dress/heels/jewelry because it doesn't suit her, or because she's showing off, or she doesn't have the complexion/figure for it, or the styles don't match, etc.. It would be an end-around attack instead of direct. And, it goes on and on and on and on and on. Most women hold grudges way longer than most men do.

I like this post! I guess "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"? Maybe that's why all the cross dressers are fighting? Emulating women a little too closely, as this fight seems to refuse to end. :)

[rachaelsloane]

Fighting, Bickering, and Controversy - Why? What is the Point???!!!
IMO, the title of this post says it all. We all joined this forum to share our CD'ing, whether one is out or in the closet. It is a personal decision that we make and should be respected by everyone, whether they agree or disagree.

In regards to what color panties am I wearing: MYOB

[giuseppina]

I agree with you, Racheal. I rarely post in threads containing heated discussions.

[Samantha43]

Anne, I appreciate your posts immensely. I've been discouraged here, too, and once tried to delete my account because I was so frustrated by some responses. Fortunately for me, the forum rules prohibit account deletion.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave! :tongueout

I have the type A male personality and I'm very secure with who I am. I'm in the closet and I don't plan on coming out any time soon. My choice. The members here that are out....good for them. Respect my decision and I'll respect yours.

[docrobbysherry]

Busted!!! You know me too well! Btw, I noticed that you neglected to disclose the color of your panties! Soooooooo, do tell! :)

I'm sorry, Anne! You've sussed out my WORST WEAKNESS! Deeply personal, controversial, and often negative threads r JUST NOT MY THING!:sad:

Imagine! Asking about my panties!? Simply TOO PERSONAL!:o

[Frédérique]

On internet forums I try to live by two rules:
1) Don't take yourself too seriously
2) Never take anyone else as seriously as you take yourself
Next time you start to feel hurt, angry or disrespected, laugh instead and remember the rules. Also, if you come across a post that you feel you must comment upon, if you take a deep breath and go have a cup of coffee, you'll find that 95% of the time someone else will make your point for you and they'll be the one that takes the heat. Then you can just sit back and watch the comedy unfold.

I agree with you, but sometimes you MUST speak up, especially when someone says something completely ridiculous, or injurious in the extreme. I often think that these discussions are not life-and-death situations, but darned if I don’t lose sleep over some perceived slight, or being worried about something I’ve written. Many times I’ve been stirred to action, only to walk away, have that cup of coffee, and think carefully about what I’m going to write about. Now and then the thread in question is closed by the time I return, and I can breathe ANOTHER sigh of relief. Speaking of closed threads, it looks like “Black Tuesday” has come and gone…
:straightface:

PS -- Sometimes it can be fun to participate in the unfolding, unintentional comedy around here...:heehee:



One cannot grow if one only listens to people who mirror your experiences.
At no point have I stated I do not want to read the experiences or opinions of others that differ from mine. Quite the contrary! I value greatly such opinions and perspectives. The point of my thread is to request that we refrain from insult, and that we remain civil and respectful of each other. Nothing more, nothing less! If this is not the understanding you arrived at after reading my post, the fault is mine for not adequately explaining myself.

You know, Anne, there are many people on this site that exist only to make YOUR life miserable. They denigrate you and everything you write, no matter how thoughtfully or carefully you have chosen your words. It doesn’t matter if you feel you have adequately explained yourself, since they will pounce on every word in an effort to undermine your cherished existence. How dare you be so happy about your crossdressing, and how dare you come here all girly and pretty, when your "real life" peers are so brow-beaten, colorless, and narrow-minded? You should read every word these non-enlightened individuals have written, my dear, poor, sick child, because you need to be cured of this appreciation for the “magic” of crossdressing you keep talking about…

That being said, here’s a little advice for you, from my heart – stay out of the “Moonlit,” OK? :doh:


No, it's worse. LIke you wrote, guys argue or fight, get it over with and forget about it. At least I do. Women behave in relational aggression; indirectly undermining each others lives when they don't like someone.

I have a theory that males who wear female clothing take on this relational aggression you’re talking about. I have been the victim of someone trying to undermine me because they take issue with something I’ve written, and they’ve made up their minds that they don’t like me – I see them, time and time again, trying to get under my skin, but I can easily side-step this nonsense and carry on. Since I’m dressed like a girl, fighting like a boy is perverse in the extreme…
:battingeyelashes: